Yo! You can get 4 extra months of NordVPN for free if you use this link: nordvpn.com/razbutenvpn It's got a 30-day money-back guarantee so it's risk-free. Aside from that, here are the time stamps of all the games in this video (shout out to Amaryllis for compiling it): 0:04 Celeste 0:10 Control 0:15 Bugsnax 0:18 Tunic 0:23 Link's Awakening (Remake) 0:26 Dark Souls 3 0:33 Elden Ring 0:37 TLoZ: Breath of the Wild 0:41 Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair 0:47 Hollow Knight 0:50 Super Metroid 0:54 Opus Magnum 1:00 Orwell 1:06 Gone Home 1:20 Death Stranding 1:25 Uncharted 1:28 Hades 1:40 Red Dead Redemption 2 1:46 Ape Out 1:47 Portal 1:49 The Witcher 3 1:50 The Stanley Parable Deluxe 1:53 The Pathless 2:06 Ori and the Will of the Wisps 2:10 DRL (Doom the Roguelike) 2:11 Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order 2:12 CrossCode 2:13 Saints Row IV 2:14 Duke Nukem 3D 2:21 Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight 2:41 Colossal Cave Adventure 2:47 Zork 2:50 Grim Fandango 2:54 Monkey Island 3:20 Life is Strange 3:25 The Walking Dead 3:27 Horizon: Zero Dawn 3:43 Dark Souls 3:50 Metroid: Dread 3:52 Shovel Knight: Dig 3:56 Rogue 4:09 Nethack Falcon’s Eye 4:29 Spelunky 4:30 The Binding of Isaac 4:31 Rogue Legacy 4:53 Sifu 5:05 Enter the Gungeon 5:28 FTL: Faster Than Light 5:35 Slay the Spire 6:42 Shadow of the Colossus 6:46 Praey For The Gods 6:55 Titan Souls 7:01 The Last of Us 7:09 A Plague Tale: Innocence 7:15 God of War (2018) 7:21 Minecraft 7:30 Journey 8:00 Grand Theft Auto 5 8:47 Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury 9:00 Before Your Eyes 9:07 Outer Wilds 9:52 Nioh 2 10:02 Ghost of Tsushima 10:23 A Short Hike 11:09 Monster Hunter Rise 11:17 Twitter dot com 11:43 Neon White 12:42 Exa-Punks 12:56 TLoZ: The Wind Waker 13:04 League of Legends 14:19 Super Mario 64 16:17 Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 16:44 Ruined King: A League of Legends Story 17:08 Donut County 17:38 Disco Elysium 17:48 Doom Eternal 17:53 Inscryption 17:57 Xenoblade Chronicles 2 17:59 Persona 5 18:00 Sonic Mania 18:17 Nier Automata 18:20 A Hat in Time 18:41 Mainlining 20:02 Spider-Man (2018) 20:10 Last Call BBS 20:23 Animal Crossing: New Horizons 21:03 Kirby and the Forgotten Land
@watchrandomuser395onyoutube
Жыл бұрын
Advert?
@Atellas
Жыл бұрын
Razbuten greeting me with “Yo!” makes me feel safe.
@thechugg4372
Жыл бұрын
Yes, if we don't do comparison then every game would be the best game of all time, I don't even know why this video exists and it scares me to think some people can't grasp this simple concept.
@andreylucass
Жыл бұрын
Read Dead Redemption 2 deserved GOTY so much more than God of War. That's why people compare them.
@ceno10101
Жыл бұрын
(hopefully you actually see this Razbuten)Idea for a video: myself, being a gamer since I got a new NES when I was about 6. I have grown up playing through all the various generations of games. I can appreciate living through the evolution. Now my kids are old enough to start playing on the Nintendo Switch, when I show them older game bundles we should play together (NES, SNES), they don't want to. Since you will be in the same boat with your kid, is there merit to showing the next generation older games too, or just jump in at the current stage of gaming?
@tobiasbehnke5515
Жыл бұрын
Changing the way we talk about video games is the Dark Souls of talking about video games.
@Ruchunteur
Жыл бұрын
Yeah exactly, it's all about sitting around a bonfire ! ;)
@purevessle2641
Жыл бұрын
So your saying, all of us that haven't considered it are terrified of the idea, got it
@gigiratliff5801
Жыл бұрын
Maybe even Demon's Souls. Not only is it hard as shit, but you can hardly articulate what you're actually trying to say
@TheCheeselordForever
Жыл бұрын
Then that means it will be amazing once we beat this monster!
@Humorless_Wokescold
Жыл бұрын
Pointless and kinda shallow but a great time sink?
@GMTK
Жыл бұрын
This was a nice new entry in the GMTK-like genre (spin off of the Every-Frame-A-Painting Clone and Sequelitisvania genres)
@clair-yvesgiovannetti4474
Жыл бұрын
🤣
@kaingagame4351
Жыл бұрын
That's some high quality shade being thrown! ;) What I find interesting is it can be harder to explain a game that has NO similarities, as it leaves the listener misunderstanding the game's concept. When Crypt of the Necrodancer, Inscription, or other genre bending games came out, the way people talked about them was confusing. If I said I'm making a roguelite city-builder, I guarantee what you're imagining isn't at all what it's like to play.
@Broelbrak
Жыл бұрын
I miss Every-Frame-A-Painting
@aryantzh2028
Жыл бұрын
i'd prefer evolution comparison for seeing how graphic and gameplay evolved rather than which one is better. because u can love all of them at the same time. its not like comparing phone, laptop, pc, tv, house, etc. when u only need 1 or 2 in ur life. but every games, movies, music, foods, etc. can be enjoyed at the same time.
@benzymatic
Жыл бұрын
It's more of a GMTK-lite imo. The British accent is a pretty core component of the GMTK-like genre.
@parchmentengineer8169
Жыл бұрын
I love all the subtle puns you always put in your videos. Stuff like talking about toxicity while in a Dark Souls poison swamp, or talking about people trying to get a rise out of others while playing Monster Hunter: Rise.
@Biouke
Жыл бұрын
I also greatly appreciated that humorous harmony between script and editing :)
@AnotherDuck
Жыл бұрын
Or talking about looking through a lens while showing a character looking through a spyglass.
@alexo_pog
Жыл бұрын
or showing someone recalling in league and after saying "which pretty much is when we use easy to **recall** information to inform our thought process"
@JiroAndroid
Жыл бұрын
I just noticed that the Monster Hunter could be a double pun, since the player is literally "ruffling feathers." XD
@99loolill
Жыл бұрын
I played BOTW and Blood Borne around the same time. The amount of times I felt the urge to jump off a castle in Yharnam and glide down to the skybox city below is... alarming
@zzuxon
Жыл бұрын
I revisited BotW after playing Death Stranding and I constantly wanted to scan the surrounding regions of hyrule with my odradek.
@EmeralBookwise
Жыл бұрын
It can be even worse when going back an older game in a franchise after playing its sequel. After having played Forbidden West, I expect if I ever play Zero Dawn again, I will suffer harshly at the whims of mistress gravity for forgetting Aloy didn't have a glider yet.
@Anni_ka
Жыл бұрын
I played Tales of Arise after BOTW, and I had to remind myself very often that no, I cannot climb freely, I have to look for a specific place that lets me climb up that ledge 😅
@TonyDemetriou
Жыл бұрын
The day after playing Starsiege: Tribes way too late into the night, my friend and I were walking through a fair, straight towards a chain link fence. We stopped, looked at each other and asked "... were you planning to jetpack over that, and just realized you can't?" Yeah, we both simultaneously had the same brain glitch.
@ledemduso5827
Жыл бұрын
The amount of times I wanted to do that in real life when I was playing BOTW for the first time was much more alarming...
@eduardo_o_observador
Жыл бұрын
In my opinion, there is no problem in comparing games or any piece of art to each other, but its necessary to understand that each of them have different objectives and things that works on one game wont work on another. Like auto-healing, maybe it will work in a frenetic action game where you can't stop running, but doesn't make sense in a survival horror.
@yehuda8589
Жыл бұрын
It's funny you mention that, since Forbidden Siren is survival horror game with auto-healing and it actually still works really well for the most part since the enemies themselves are immortal and revive after a minute or 2 after you take them out which prevents you from just casually waiting for your health to regenerate to max after taking damage since you want to make the most out of the time you have until the enemies come back to life.
@R3TR0J4N
Жыл бұрын
in concurrent times when "Ghost of Tsushima-like" was an overused term just cause a game set in feudal japan setting w/ interactive dynamic environment even tho Ghost was a game of its own due to visual style/direction other than its an amalgamation of arpg titles like earlier AC Origins/Odyssey.
@eduardo_o_observador
Жыл бұрын
@@yehuda8589 it was just the firt example i could think. But yeah, its not a rule.
@yehuda8589
Жыл бұрын
@@eduardo_o_observador Yeah, I understand what you're saying how some ideas don't really work in certain genres. I just like gushing about Siren and saw this as a good opportunity.
@aryantzh2028
Жыл бұрын
i'd prefer evolution comparison for seeing how graphic and gameplay evolved rather than which one is better. because u can love all of them at the same time. its not like comparing phone, laptop, pc, tv, house, etc. when u only need 1 or 2 in ur life. but every games, movies, music, foods, etc. can be enjoyed at the same time.
@anthonyaddo
Жыл бұрын
As I listen to your video essay, I can't help but look at the games featured and think how interesting they all seem. Is it possible you could annotate or otherwise share the games you feature in these videos? Thank you, Razbuten. I always enjoy mulling over your considerations of gaming as it stands today.
@leftovernoise
Жыл бұрын
I agree that would be handy in videos where many games are shown. Was there any specifically you were curious about but didn't know what they are? I can do my best to assist you, I'm halfway through and have recognized everything so far. Happy to help!
@nottasker
Жыл бұрын
I could help name a few since I recognise all of them, just give me a timestamp and I'll help you out!
@jorava8768
Жыл бұрын
@@nottasker What's the game in 20:12?
@anthonyaddo
Жыл бұрын
I'm sorry, I have so many games I am interested in 😅! I'll just give ten timestamps. Thanks so much @Leftover Noise and @NotTasker! 0:56 1:01 1:10 2:05 9:09 11:36 11:45 12:37 12:43 13:19
@Swagbastian
Жыл бұрын
In order: Celeste Control Uncharted 4 Bugsnax Tunic Link's Awakening Remake Dark Souls 3 Elden Ring Breath of the Wild Yooka-Laylee Hollow Knight Super Metroid Opus Magnum Orwell (Don't know) Death Stranding (One of the Uncharted games) Hades Red Dead Redemption 2 (Don't Know) Portal 2 The Witcher 3 The Stanley Parable The Pathless Ori and the Will of the Wisps (Don't know) Jedi: Fallen Order That's just up to 2:10. I don't know a lot after that and I didn't think he would go so fast with them lol
@Amins88
Жыл бұрын
I remember my friend telling me in high school that the RPG genre doesn't make sense because you're playing a role in every game you play. I remember thinking, yes that's technically correct, and wondering how the term eventually came to define the genre we know today, and even further began to wonder how the definition of that genre expanded and blurred the lines of what actually makes an RPG. I think this was the first time that I realized that definitions didn't need to be so strict and that a game can take inspiration and build upon a variety of elements.
@TonyDemetriou
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's interesting how you need to know what came before to understand both the names but also the innovation from a genre. Especially when the innovation is so common we don't even notice it any more. "You're playing a role in every game" Yes, but you weren't when playing tabletop recreations of historical battles. You were moving troops, but not "playing a role" as one of them. It's a big jump from controlling "a unit of archers" to controlling "Robin Hood" And an even bigger one from "win the battle" to "undermine King John's rule"
@coyraig8332
Жыл бұрын
It's very useful distinguishing between Japan style RPGs (JRPGs) and western style RPGs (WRPGs). The basic distinction is that: in JRPGs there's emphasis on the role (you are the leader of the Phantom Thieves, you are a hero who helps people, etc) while in WRPGs the emphasis is on role-playing (which faction do you side with? Will you be a hero or villain? etc)
@BonaparteBardithion
Жыл бұрын
What's most interesting is that the genre takes its name from the element of its predecessor least involved in roleplaying: stat sheets and randomized dice/number rolling. Despite the genre being narratively heavy, the better defined the story is the less roleplaying freedom the player actually has and they will never have the full directional freedom of tabletop games. They're more akin to a choose-you-own-adventure book with tabletop combat systems.
@Amins88
Жыл бұрын
Of course, now I realize that the RPG genre was derived from Dungeons & Dragons. But as time has gone on and games have expanded their scope and influences, the term "RPG" has become less of a genre and more off an element or ingredient to the final product. A game like Borderlands isn't necessarily an RPG in the classic sense, but it has the elements of choosing a character with a specific specialization and building them up over the course of the game.
@R3TR0J4N
Жыл бұрын
dynamic writing is a key featured that makes an rpg
@calebwillingham6481
Жыл бұрын
It'd be interesting to apply this to your "Non-Gamer" series. You could see how playing games in a certain order affects how someone new to games perceives certain elements like difficulty, pacing, and complexity
@samayaelitzur7772
7 ай бұрын
I was thinking of this. I wonder if how he presented the order of the games also affected the outcome.
@AeonAir
Жыл бұрын
This video came in at a perfect time, as a big discussion sparked up within my circle not many days ago about our favorite Mario titles, because I opened with the remark that "It's crazy that Super Mario Galaxy is my 2nd favorite platformer of all time, but it doesn't even make my top 5 favorite mario games", and it started a massive discussion about what mario games are the best, and we couldn't seem to come to any conclusive end to our discussion. Thinking back at it; it seems silly to not conclude with the fact that I just don't value platforming the same way as I would value the gameplay prospects of the Mario RPG titles, as those fill up more or less all 5 spots for me. Instead we ended up talking back and forth about other qualities of the games, that weren't really relevant to the gameplay, but other factors that could be compared to eachother, and nobody could seem to agree. Fun video, and in a way very eye opening. I've always known I'm more of an RPG guy, but trying to quantify that in a discussion hasn't always been easy. Should probably just point people to this video in the future.
@aryantzh2028
Жыл бұрын
i'd prefer evolution comparison for seeing how graphic and gameplay evolved rather than which one is better. because u can love all of them at the same time. its not like comparing phone, laptop, pc, tv, house, etc. when u only need 1 or 2 in ur life. but every games, movies, music, foods, etc. can be enjoyed at the same time.
@xshme
Жыл бұрын
As a mainly handheld gamer, breath of the wild was my first open world game, and I absolutely loved it. I could not stay on a straight path to my objective because I kept getting distracted by shrines, koroks and other small things to do. I associated this freedom and distraction with open world games in my mind. Now im playing through Witcher 3 on my steamdeck. I had heared its a good game and that its open world, but not a lot more. I expected roughly the same experience of getting distracted by small objectives and things like that. While I absolutely love what I have played so far (about 20 hours in), its nothing like that feeling I had with breath of the wild. In my mind I compared the two because of the "open world" label.
@platycorn5301
Жыл бұрын
unfortunately many AAA open world titles fail to capture what makes open-world games great, aka the joy of exploration. I'd highly recommend elden ring, a lot of people have written/talked about loving it because it captures a similar feeling of discovery to botw despite the huge gameplay differences because both games do such a good job rewarding exploration and discovery. I'd also recommend looking into various metroidvania games, obviously you don't have as much freedom in where to go but a lot of good metroidvanias make sure to tuck lots of goodies and places to explore into their worlds, hollow knight is one of the best in this regard
@Hoolahups
Жыл бұрын
I had the exact opposite experience. I am an avid genshin impact player and have had my game compared to breath of the wild so much that when I finally played it it was a real letdown in terms of the open world only because genshin impacts world is so much more dense and full of chests and stuff. I really wish I could go to breath of the wild with a cleaner perspective
@xshme
Жыл бұрын
@@platycorn5301 Yeah elden ring is on my list, but im just waiting for a good sale. I really like metroidvania's. Hollow knight was great (though only had time to play trough the main story because once I beat that my steamdeck arrived, and I wanted to play that). Ori and the blind forest is one of my favorite games, and im waiting for a sale on its sequal.
@metroidcypher
Жыл бұрын
i had a complete opposite experience, i couldn't stop comparing BOTW to other Zelda games and RPGs which the game fell real short of. BOTW didnt have any of the items and dungeon designs from past games and it had little to no content in the open world compared to rpgs. all BOTW is to me is a sandbox physics simulator
@Road_to_Dawn
Жыл бұрын
I don’t generally play a lot of open world games because I feel that they often take away from the main story and I tend to get bored running around from point to point in (what seems like to me) a largely empty landscape. That said, I just started playing Xenoblade 3 a few days ago and I’ve been doing almost nothing but run around exploring everything I can find. The landscapes are great, there’s always something fairly rewarding to find, and surprisingly, so many of the sidequests that you randomly find around the world tie back into the main story in some way I like and/or have some really high production value put into them.
@numbertj4730
Жыл бұрын
I can't believe Razbuten actually went and found Colossal Cave Adventure. My father and I are both programmers, and we played it when I was like 10. I've never actually seen anyone mention it despite how historically significant a game it is. It's kind of like how no one seems to talk about Myst anymore either, despite it having been so popular when it came out. I wish people would talk about them more.
@razbuten
Жыл бұрын
I had to download a dos emulator to play it so I am glad you appreciate it lol
@Phirestar
Жыл бұрын
I can relate to that topic of subconscious comparisons between games you’ve played recently. When I played CrossCode at the end of 2019, it was a game that I came to off the back of playing the Souls series for the first time, which ended up being some of my favorite experiences with gaming. And for about the first half of my time with it, I was constantly disappointed by the gear options in CrossCode. I was so accustomed to the idea of picking up a new weapon and it having a unique moveset from what I’d been using, and I wished that gear in CrossCode would do the same. I’d also played Salt & Sanctuary around that time, and I think I may have been subconsciously comparing that game’s skill tree to the ones in CC as well, because I also didn’t like how so many options on the trees were passives that felt like they didn’t have much of an impact (+4% elemental res.). And there was no feeling of meaningful choice because you’d get enough points by the end of the game to unlock everything, so what difference does it make what I choose to invest into? It was only when I took a break half-way through, and came back like a year later, that I went into CrossCode with a fresh mindset where I stopped comparing it to other stuff. And funnily enough, that’s the part where I enjoyed the game the most, and where it became one of my favorite games of all time - even surpassing Dark Souls and S&S on my personal ranking list.
@sablen1319
Жыл бұрын
I loved my time with CrossCode, but as the game went on the dungeons became longer and the tediousness of the puzzles started to grow. I would solve a puzzle in my head, but then it would take me about 20 minutes of sustained effort to solve it just for my reward to be an even harder and longer puzzle in the next room. I still think the game’s a 9/10 from its story, music, and combat, but I’ve yet to beat the game due to my struggle with its unrelenting puzzles. Any advice on how to get through? I’d love to see the end. I’m currently stuck on the dungeon near the rainy forest city.
@ED-gw9rg
Жыл бұрын
@@sablen1319 My advice is to figure out where the puzzle should END and what solving it does, then work through the puzzle with that result in mind. On some puzzles, you'll need to solve it step by step from the start while keeping the end in mind. As for the Wave Enemies...Cod help you if your aim and timing isn't on-point. For the Thunder Element, equip the scatter-into-dozens-of-pellets Tier 2 Ranged Skill. You'll thank me later.
@aryantzh2028
Жыл бұрын
i'd prefer evolution comparison for seeing how graphic and gameplay evolved rather than which one is better. because u can love all of them at the same time. its not like comparing phone, laptop, pc, tv, house, etc. when u only need 1 or 2 in ur life. but every games, movies, music, foods, etc. can be enjoyed at the same time.
@jasonreed7522
Жыл бұрын
On comparison i couldn't help but make is when i played darksouls 3 (tried to play). I have basically always played something like COD from medal of honor on the gamecube to blackops 3 and they all have basically the same control scheme and so whenever I'm in a combat orientation game i have muscle memory for what all the buttons do, Darksouls control scheme is completely different and i have yet to get very far because my brain thinks attack and pulls right trigger and i die because that isn't the basic attack button. (I know i litterally just need to spend time getting used to the controls but i think similarly or dissimilarity of controls between games should be considered more when making all the other comparisons as i find it just as important when trying to learn a new game for the first time)
@wellurban
Жыл бұрын
This highlights for me how important it is for comparison to be multidimensional. Mood, subject matter and art style can be enough to attract some people, but it’s probably gameplay style that can be a make or break a recommendation. For instance, a lot of people demand capital-G Gameplay mechanics and deride “walking simulators”, whereas I tend to be the opposite and avoid games with too much combat or punishing difficulty. So your comparison of Elden Ring to Outer Wilds and A Short Hike could make sense on some dimensions, but from what I’ve seen I’d hate it due to all the boss battles. Comparisons are useful, but have to be tailored to the recipient.
@Phirestar
Жыл бұрын
“It can be hard for a lot of games to live up to the titles they get compared to.” Funny that you happen to have Ori and the Blind Forest as the footages for that bit. I remember Hollow Knight for the first time, back in 2017-2018, and it was one of the greatest games that I’ve ever played (shocking opinion, I know). And I both saw and continue to see people compare Hollow Knight and Ori, which I played in November of that year, around a year after experiencing HK. I did not like Ori and the Blind Forest, because it was _nothing_ like what I’d played before. What I loved about Hollow Knight was the sensation of discovering the world, and figuring things out myself. And Ori... is basically the polar opposite of that: it’s both linear and guides the player through the journey. And that’s where making comparisons between games fails: the reasons for why you think they’re similar may not be the reason that a person liked that game in the first place.
@Ruchunteur
Жыл бұрын
yeah. Peoples compare the two mostly because they are both 2d metroidvania with beautiful non pixel art graphic and some similar-ish abilities (not entirely the same but eh. It felt similar enough). To be honest I think the comparison sort of make sense on a superficial level. Where the comparison fail to me, is that Ori have way less enemies, way less stuff to explore. It's a much much shorter game (Like, I finished hollow knight in 40h or so. And ori in 11h or so.) And the story structure is really different. So it start filling more different as you advance into the game because the differences get more obvious but the similarities never disappear. So I understand why you would compare the two when recommending the game to someone. It is similar in a lot of aspect. But alone, this comparison isn't enough. It would be better to further explain what the differences are to not misslead someone into thinking it's exactly the same but in another universe
@thijsvos1852
Жыл бұрын
I agree. People are constantly comparing the combat system of the second ori with hollow knight, while in reality they have nothing in common aside from both having a healing move and a sword. When i got arond to playing the second ori i had heard this so many times that i was basically expecting an exact clone of hollow knight in it. Turns out ori also has a ninja star, exploding spear, mega hammer thing and an explosion that covers the entire screen. That was nowhere near hollow knight’s combat. I still love the game and its combat due to it all being thought out and well designed, but the comparisons were misleading for me.
@legrandliseurtri7495
Жыл бұрын
They're being compared constantly because those are two(three if you include will of wisps, soon to be four with silksong) metroidvanias that aren't Metroid but that everyone still knows about because they're ten times more popular than their competition.
@thealmightyduck5743
Жыл бұрын
This is the dark souls of gaming takes
@ssjgokuhan
Жыл бұрын
I think a major factor is that, much like other forms of modern entertainment, video games have become a very crowded space where many developers are trying to get a market share. The problem is that making games is hard and making something unique and good is incredibly difficult and many ideas have already been used. In the same way that Hollywood is relying more on reboots and spinoffs, many game developers are just putting their own spin on an already established idea or concept, sometimes being so close they are more clones than homages. When this happens more and more, using the "base game" as a naming convention makes sense because these games feel more like spinoffs or evolved sequels themselves more than they do their own unique game or even the genre it sprouted from.
@storyspren
Жыл бұрын
"People mostly operate on vibes." Honestly, having read some genre theory (both specific and general) that's absolutely true. And it's applicable in all media, not just video games. You start with "genres are easy" and then you find some blurry borders between your favorite genres. You start dissecting these borders and trying to figure out a name or several names for one or more different ways of mixing them (example: there's a difference between how Shadowrun mixes fantasy and scifi, and how Mass Effect or 40k do it). You might encounter the concept of "megatext" which can be very useful for describing genres, but its contribution for defining the concept itself is less direct. Then you read some genre theorists, you read how there's all these arguments for this or that definition and all of them have some flaws (some of which are glaring as hell). And people rarely try to differentiate between the levels of "genre" and when they do, they come up with terminology that never sticks. (By levels I mean how most online discussion takes place on the "fantasy and drama and horror" level or more granular, whereas a lot of the academia also operates on the "poems and literature and film and newspaper" level.) It ends up kinda looking like historical precedent is the only true definer of a genre, and when you don't have that historical precedent (like when scifi was first becoming a genre) or when you stray away from it, you're stuck operating on vibes. In the case of no historical precedent, everything new that has the right vibe and shares important details (the decision of what details are important being largely vibes-based) gets lumped into the new thing, and this vibes-based definition forms the basis for the future historical precedent. In the case of straying from precedent, we compare the vibes to other genres: "science fantasy", "action-comedy", "scifi western", "FPS adventure game", and so on. Why do we see it so much in video game discourse? It's a new medium. There are genre terms that simply aren't applicable to other media. Not all the terms, obviously: gaming has stuff like visual novels, which can be compared to or even made in other media that aren't video games (not everything this genre does can, but still), and setting- or story-based genres are applicable across media (like, crime fiction is always crime fiction no matter what medium it's in). But first-person shooters? Roguelikes? Side-scrollers? Open-world games? These distinctions require interactivity, and not the interactivity of "if this, go to page x, if that, go to page y", but constant or near-constant input from the person engaging with it. You don't choose every step the protagonist of a choose-your-own-adventure book takes, and they're not gonna get killed by bears while you're away if you leave the book open. And since the medium is so new, in a lot of cases we're right now setting the precedent, and in the other cases the time when the precedent was set is so recent that the people involved in doing that still remember it.
@lordpillows762
Жыл бұрын
I'm personally just glad we actually stuck with genre names like "Metroidvania" and "Souls-like" because they simply sound cool and flow well on the tongue.
@funkuro
Жыл бұрын
Metroidvania is both my favourite genre and my favourite name.
@TZerot0
Жыл бұрын
Roguelike: "dead and obscure" My hair: bristles
@razbuten
Жыл бұрын
lol yeah that is fair. I don't wanna act like traditional roguelikes don't still exist, but they certainly have been overshadowed in a big way by the new understanding of the genre
@TZerot0
Жыл бұрын
@@razbuten very true! I think the funniest thing is that traditional roguelikes are significantly more popular now than they've ever been.
@shadow_of_the_spirit
Жыл бұрын
this just reminds me of what's a "real" game talks, the important thing is to take your time to understand who the person your talking to uses these terms so that you can communicate properly.
@ryanb5127
Жыл бұрын
I love pitching games as it's like A but X and Y. Take a well know game then highlight a core difference between it and the pitched game then highlight a unique aspect. Deathloop is like hitman but you have superpowers and refine your assassinations over a time loop. (I know it's more like dishonored than hitman but more people are familiar with the game style of hitman.)
@joezcool
Жыл бұрын
Man I didn't even realize how so many subgenres of videogames are kind of just a comparison to genre defining titles, like roguelike, medroidvania, and all the clones. Blew my mind a little, although I always knew game genres were a sticky mess. Also, I love it when content creators say "current year," making the hard read that whatever they're about to mention is not only timely but will probably remain that way, in a slightly silly attempt to make their content more evergreen, appreciate that joke. very nice.
@jacobalo4532
Жыл бұрын
By far one of my favorite topics you have discussed. I think comparing games for the most part is good. Comparing certain aspects specifically I think has more value. I kind of hate the idea of genres in general. To say a game is a specific genre feels unfair. Like the game somehow needs to fit a mold, and can’t be it’s own thing. Developers may have a certain vision for their game, that has certain aspects of other games and what not, but may be called a specific genre that it isn’t really. Makes me think how there are a million music genres, and how two songs in the same genre may sound nothing alike. Cause, they aren’t, but got labeled that way.
@jonathonwirth7107
Жыл бұрын
So glad to hear Grim Fandango and Monkey Island referenced. Lucasarts adventure games were unrivalled.
@wizakke5399
Жыл бұрын
I hate title based genres because they make getting into new games difficult by expecting me to know a different game. A lot of things seem to center around the idea that all players have experienced the games of the past and it really drives me nuts.
@chillmadude
Жыл бұрын
when i compare games, especially when trying to sell the game to a friend or whatever, i usually try to describe it as a blend of mechanics (or other aspects where it makes sense) from other games. so a game might be "a dugeon crawler where you darksouls dogde roll away from your problems as your try to collect houses to play sim city with" or something like that. it's a bit meme-y and entertaining, but also informative and helpful.
@xaro9542
Жыл бұрын
Everything is relative to what is around it. Comparisons are important, just don't make stupid comparisons
@NuiYabuko
Жыл бұрын
coughPokemonfanscough
@thefaz3744
Жыл бұрын
Shotouts to Pokemon Mystery Dungeon which managed to shift from one of the biggest examples of a rogue-like to completely not being a rogue-like at all
@BusinessSkrub
Жыл бұрын
Comparing games to each other is how every AAA game in the past decade has been a shooter, battle arena, or Skyrim clone. Such vast creativity
@florianizer
Жыл бұрын
I love that you brought up the issue of the "adventure" genre. I love true adventure games, and it's always annoyed me trying to search for them on places like Steam where every game has that tag.
@Ellaliluleloka
Жыл бұрын
I have the same issue :(. Have you found a workaround on finding more games since the "adventure" tag is unhelpful?
@wolfsongaz
Жыл бұрын
The most popular game on the Playstation store tagged as adventure is... Fortnite. How? I have no idea, useless tag if a match based multiplayer shooter somehow gets to call itself an adventure.
@lordpillows762
Жыл бұрын
@@wolfsongaz Fortnite do have a story mode tho, it's just that 90% of people doesn't seem know it exists, and it's also the paid version of the game anyway. But yeah, that's rought lol
@Ianthe1
Жыл бұрын
Never realized how little I compared one game to another until watching this. I love taking each game I play as a new experience and possibly finding similarities while playing through them.
@kibble1105
Жыл бұрын
im happy you made this video :) one of my favorite games, Omori, is constantly related to Undertale. I feel as though these two games are compared solely for being pixel art styled and turn based, because they share almost nothing else in common. I actually found Omori through a comparison like this, so I do have mixed feelings about the entire concept, but I see many people turn away from Omori due to it not living up to Undertale's expectations. I personally love both games, and I wish people would be more conscientious about what they compare so as to allow more people to enjoy the beauty of both of these wonderfully told stories.
@wolfsongaz
Жыл бұрын
"Compared to Undertale even though its not really alike and then it gets criticized for failing to be Undertale" is truly the greatest category of games. Sincerely: Oneshot fan, the game that is the poster child for being wrongly compared to Undertale. Now I love Undertale too, but they have basically nothing in common other than pixel art and "4th wall breaking", although they are totally different in how they do the meta stuff too and the feel of it. In fact they're even thematically opposed in some important ways, I've argued that on the broader metafictional message they are straight up saying the opposite thing. Omori and Undertale at least both have an earthbound inspiration so you can see some similarities from a common ancestor, Oneshot meanwhile isn't even an RPG. But same situation, lots of people found out about it because it was compared to Undertale even if thats not a great comparison, but are maybe glad that they got tipped off to its existence. But it might cause people who would otherwise have enjoyed it in a different state of mind to dislike it when they realize its not what they expected and they quit, which is a shame.
@kibble1105
Жыл бұрын
@@wolfsongaz i have never played oneshot, but i am interested in doing so. this makes me more interested. well said :)
@lasercraft32
8 ай бұрын
Honestly, I would love to see an open world game like Botw, but with Mario's movement abilities.
@vexero3038
Жыл бұрын
New raz upload, let’s goooo
@cubicinfinity2
Жыл бұрын
This was good because it's not just about games; it's theory about communication.
@Schoritzobandit
Жыл бұрын
I think this video did a pretty neat job grappling with the issue of heuristics. As you summarize, making models reduces complexity so that information can be understood and more readily applied and compared, but reducing that complexity also loses nuance and much of the essence of something. Models are inevitable and useful, but it's good to try to break them down every once in a while to make sure you know how to do it, and so that the nuances you think through during that breakdown can surface in thoughts when applying the model later. I particularly like the contextual point you made about playing games after each other. Bit of a lost opportunity to compare that to pairing wine with food or eating lime after a shot of tequila, but you still got it across nicely! Ultimately, most things can be broken down further. Why does each word in this sentence mean what you interpret it to mean? Why does it correspond to certain sounds? Why do we use words like "biology" and "physics" and "politics" and "family" and know what they mean, even though most of these terms fall apart as solid categories when you scrutinize them? I think the failures of models and heuristics become more apparent the more you think about and know about a subject, so it makes sense this video would be about video games :)
@Aperson-62
Жыл бұрын
This comparison thing is very common in the indie scene which isn't surprising as I think it's a natural thing as a kid to want to make your own Zelda game or your own Mario game or your own Sonic game. But due to the nature of copyright and wanting to make money we get a scene of games which are very similar to their inspirations but with origin characters. Comparison is inevitable. I feel like the indie scene has definitely given new genre names to certain things like "search action" for games like Metroid and Castlevania, "High speed platformer" for games like Sonic the Hedgehog (surprisingly niche genre), "platform fighter" for games like Smash Bros. and the aforementioned rogue likes. There aren't really too many indies that have 100% original mechanics but you often see some stand out by taking ideas from different genres of video games and mixing them together, like Shovel Knight for instance.
@jacobdobbins5443
Жыл бұрын
9:07 is definitely the most hype part of this video, the continuity in this saga of videos truly capture the adventure and sacrifice of a great story like no other... rest of the video was ok ig... 5 stars
@andriypredmyrskyy7791
Жыл бұрын
The name "legend of Zelda" used to mean for the player "oh this is an epic fantasy quest!" And now for developers it means "can you live up to this legacy? Good luck."
@juliann267
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed your description of comparing games to each other just because you've been playing them back to back. I remember vividly how slow the gameplay of TES Oblivion felt after I've sunk so many hours into FarCry3 with it's incredible fast pace movement. I just couldn't get into oblivion because of that
@realkingofantarctica
3 ай бұрын
That thumbnail goes underappreciated. It's hard to tell at a glance since the rows mirror each other, but the games represented through their mascots reflect those journalistic similarities brought up in the video e.g. A Hat in Time being inspired by the mainline Mario games, especially Sunshine, or Crash Bandicoot retroactively being called the "Dark Souls" of 3D platformers.
@BrooklyKnight
Жыл бұрын
I think the main thing you pointed out in the beginning is just a common thing we all see in the linguistics community-words, if given enough time, will change meaning as society sees fit. Genres being confusing I think is just an example of that regardless of what media it takes. Given another 50 years, I'm sure the words "Metroidvania" and "Soulslike" will likely shift too. That's just how words work.
@JuanLeon-oe6xe
Жыл бұрын
If anybody needs hard proof, remember we used to call First Person Shooters "DOOM-clones".
@aidanandreasen2611
Жыл бұрын
We should only be comparing games to one other title: Zelda II
@SpeedrunningSimplified
Жыл бұрын
Your videos always hit the perfect spot, I love your writing!
@dixaba
Жыл бұрын
I remember how I was describing Darksiders 3 as a metroidvania (since it has few powers you have to get to progress, said powers unlock not only new areas but also shortcuts between already explored areas as well (one of my friends got lost multiple times in shortcut-hub areas during first playthrough), powers are used both for exploration and in combat, there is certain freedom in which you can get those powers and fight bosses), and I got a response that it can't be a metroidvania because games in this genre are only 2D (since Metroid and Castlevania are). I tried to argue that by the same logic platformers can also be only 2D (because 3D wasn't a thing when first Mario/Sonic came out) and there should be no such thing as third-person shooters (as first id Software games were *the* shooters), I failed. Oh well...
@efeakkayaa
Жыл бұрын
My favorite hollow knight youtuber uploaded once again
@efeakkayaa
Жыл бұрын
Wait. The first music is from hollow knight I was actually right
@razbuten
Жыл бұрын
mossbag uploaded?
@efeakkayaa
Жыл бұрын
@@razbuten I love you
@Tyranitar.
Жыл бұрын
I don’t even know the difference between half of the categorizations. “Yknow I don’t really like roguelikes as there is simply less snowballing then roguelikes” “…what?”
@RealityMasterRogue
Жыл бұрын
I think its interesting that, having played a short hike, you comparing it to elden ring got a "this comparison is worthless" from me. Because for me, the parts that make A Short Hike the game i enjoyed are the peace that comes along the freedom. I don't have to worry about much of anything and can take everything how I want. The fact that elden ring has combat and stats and items and the like makes it more of a complete opposite to ASH, in my experience.
@CyVoltage
Жыл бұрын
I'm glad KZitem could identify this is first and foremost a Dark Souls video about Dark Souls, the hit game released in 2011
@kashino55archive94
Жыл бұрын
In terms of recommendations, I find it really helpful to use other games' different traits to paint an amalgamated picture of what the game entails. Think of your Elden Ring example. It's an open-world game with Dark Souls-style mechanics, but has a more "Overarching mission" vibe akin to Breath of the Wild or even A Short Hike Definitely not the best example, but I find it to be an effective way of communicating how a game feels to someone unfamiliar with it. Of course, this comes with its own issues, but in my own personal experience it's a fairly unobtrusive way of comparing games to make recommendations more potent while mitigating potential misunderstandings of what I mean when I say one is like the other
@BlueSR
Жыл бұрын
Amazing video, raz! I’m ever blown away by your ability to formulatw your thoughts and offer such insight. This all really makes me think back on the biases and comparisons that affected my experience with the Ori games after having played Hollow Knight. (I’m an avid HK player). All in all, It’s super easy to fall into comparing things and experiencing one piece of art (or game, in this case) through the lens of another. Sometimes we gotta take a step back and try to appreciate each individual piece of art for itself! It’s hard, but worthwhile, and has helped me enjoy games in a completely new way since i actively tried to stop comparing things as much.
@jjproductions7236
Жыл бұрын
Had a similar experience with TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima. Despite both being hyper violent, Ghost felt less serious just because it wasn't as upclose and personal with its violence. And some big emotional scenes carried little weight because of that experience, however that isn't a fair issue (as you stated) I only felt that way because I played TLOU2 before it. I probably would've had an entirely different experience with Ghost if I hadn't played TLOU2 before it.
@mellovania
Жыл бұрын
I just finished SOTN for the first time as a hollow knight / super metroid lover too, and hillariously, even then I feel like all three have different aims in things like emotional tone. So, great video great topic!!
@Lunalestrix
Жыл бұрын
The choice of placing a scene from the last of us part 2 right when talking about gamers taking things too personally, loved it
@Talpfote
Жыл бұрын
Can I just say...your background music choices were GREAT, the first two I immediately recognised 🧡
@HiVoltag3R
Жыл бұрын
What are they??
@AndreJr9
Жыл бұрын
@@HiVoltag3R Greenpath from Hollow Knight and Final Expense from Hades
@deriznohappehquite
Жыл бұрын
Video game genres don’t really make sense the way we typically use them. I’d say you need to use multiple terms. You have the literary genre: Comedy, Tragedy, Epic You have setting genres: Western, Sci Fi, Fantasy You have broad gameplay genres: Action, puzzle, adventure You have mechanics genres: FPS, RPG, RTS Like if I were to describe RDR2, I would say it’s a western, third person shooter, tragedy, adventure game. If I were to describe Star Craft I would describe it as an epic, sci fi, RTS, action game. Portal is a science fiction, FPS, comedy, puzzle game.
@PurpleFreezerPage
Жыл бұрын
I think if a really smart influential person made a 10 factor scale - that would be really useful. Every new game fills out the following: Chill to Exciting (0-10) Slow to Fast (0-10) Easy to Hard (0-10) Familiar to Unique (0-10) Story to Gameplay (0-10) As long as it was a universal system - it'd be very handy.
@windsgrace688
Жыл бұрын
Maybe I'm one of the weird ones but this line of thought rarely occurs to me. I typically don't play games that are similar back-to-back and having a thought like "I wish Monster Hunter would have movement tech like Mario" just doesn't occur to me very often. Unless the games are fairly similar, I generally don't compare them as I typically compartmentalize each gaming experience as something unique (and the same goes for most other media). If someone were to ask me "Which is better: mac and cheese or sushi?" my response would be "I like both for different reasons."
@gawain0
Жыл бұрын
I've played a fair number of the games that were featured in this video; celeste, momodora, hollow knight, dark souls, crosscode, opus magnum, FTL, Ori, Portal (might be missing some, only gave a brief glance over at the list to check what I was missing, anyway, it's not the point. Not trying to brag about how I've played a lot of games), but what hit me the most and really drove home your final point was when you flashed some Last Call BBS right at the end and I was like 'OK yeah, I totally get your point now'. Brought up some interesting food for thought. Thanks!
@Accurate_Vision
Жыл бұрын
I can't help but wonder if "It's current year" was actually part of the script for the sponsorship or if it's intended to be replaced by the actual current year, haha Great video! It was enlightening and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I can even see myself coming back to rewatch it a couple times, which I rarely do with anybody because there's just so much out there to watch. Thank you for spending your time and energy creating this content and I hope all goes well for you!
@theaveragetechgamer
Жыл бұрын
I thought that as well
@Phylonix
Жыл бұрын
Tbh at this point the definition of a souls like is just any game with a roll button
@GamingonFiction
Жыл бұрын
“Comparison is the thief of joy.” ~ Theodore Roosevelt
@mcfarvo
Жыл бұрын
The Souls series is changing how we talk about the Kirby-like and Kirby-lite genres
@davelzdr
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video and very thoughtful point about our own comparisons and states of minds when playing games. I guess that can make sense how replaying a game long after can often be a very different experience
@BoomerSage
Жыл бұрын
Man I gotta say every video you make is top quality. Keep up the awesome work 😎
@jackawaka
Жыл бұрын
I like the cut to "before your eyes" when you start talking about looking at the game, very nice.
@imadziani6983
Жыл бұрын
This youtube channel is most definitely the actual best one i've stumbled upon concerning video games, literally. I've been binge watching ALL the videos these past days staying up until 4 am lol. I hope and wish you never stop :) I find myself quickly annoyed when i try to watch videos from other people doing the same thing. For me at least, you're the best, really.
@BeautyMarkRush
Жыл бұрын
I believe the idea to label games by genres comes all the way over from the books and movies. We label them by genres because that makes it easy to know what to expect from that book/movie. For instance, if you plan to watch an horror movie, you expect to see monsters, ghosts, jumpscares, etc. But if you want a comedy book, you expect to laugh. It's all about the experience that product can offer. That idea carried over to the games, and although it worked fine at first, it isn't so simple anymore. Game genres used to be simple because games were simple, but games evolved and so sub-genres were born. As time passes, more and more sub-genres pop-up as new and hybrid games emerges from the minds of developers and designers. Beat'em-up, Real-Time Strategy, Point'n'click, Hack'n'Slash, Shoot'em-up, Run'n'Gun, Tower Defense, MetroidVania... Good luck naming all of them. Heck, people even stopped coming up with names and just added "-like" to the name of a genre-defining game instead. Nowadays, as games become more and more complex, I favor the idea of a game having multiple classifications, because, unlike a movie or a book, a videogame isn't just about the story or just about the gameplay, they can offer multiple experiences. For instance, whenever I'm recommending a game, I try to compare its story, core gameplay and world separately. Being an "open-world" doesn't really define the game. It can has an open-world, but gameplay-wise be a survivalcraft, like Minecraft, which is nothing like Assassin's Creed's core gameplay or story, for example. The story can be labeled as we label movies: Action, Adventure, Horror, Drama... The world as how the world is presented, open-world, metroidvania (semi-open world side-scroller with heavy exploration), zelda-like, linear... And the gameplay by its core elements. Uncharted for instance, could be labeled as a linear Action-Adventure third-person shooter, because that's it's core gameplay. Sure, it's a mouthful, but you can get a better grasp of the game than if I just say "Action-Adventure", right? But I disagree about the idea of a genre being defined by what each player experience *individually*, rather than what the game itself has to offer (if you'd recommend me Lost Ruins and say it's like Terraria, just because of the pixel art graphics, I'd slap the s*** out of you). I remember seeing a thread once discussing about the definition of Soulslike, and there were some people in it saying a Soulslike would be a game with dark, environmental storytelling. If so, then wouldn't Left 4 Dead and Portal also be Soulslike games? Genres are some sort of consensus between people, so defining it individually only creates more confusion to an already confusing topic. For example, Monster Hunter is labeled as an Action RPG by the media and even Capcom itself, but to me, it doesn't "feel" as an RPG just because the sense of progression is different. It's not your character who evolves, but you and your equipment. Sure, the equipments are heavily based upon usual RPG equipments, separated in parts and have numbers to quantify its stats/quality and guide you over. But the same thing happens in God of War (2018) and only with its Steam release that it was first labeled as an Action RPG and only by user-defined store tags, while the media and Santa Monica Studios treats it as an Action-Adventure. No consensus here. I rather say both games have RPG elements, instead. Heck, Razbuten, seeing your videos, you seem like a nice person to talk with about those game topics. The introvert in me salutes the introvert in you.
@kyrasoze516
Жыл бұрын
A wise child once said, "not everyone has to like it to be the best." Such is true with your favorite games, as, to you, they indeed have the juice.
@oh016gamevideos
Жыл бұрын
Great you picked up this topic! There would be another big game-category worthy of discussion - survival games. For many players survival means combat and the need to constantly withstand hostile fractions (any kind of NPC and/or MP-PVP). Preferable with fire-arms and additionally some stealth and sneak tactics. If a game is tagged survival and does not offer these elements (sufficiently) it is often downvoted (one reason: many players shun the "grinding-only" in games). But I personally consider the combative elements to be more charcteristic of action and shooter-like games. Survival in general means the charcter has needs that will decline and have to be filled up constantly by finding the necessary means to do so. Which leads to a progression via uplevelling of character stats and tec-trees to get better items or buildings. So a game can be a survival game without combat and with PVE only, especially if environmental conditions are changing dynamically and/or the need for advanced ressources forces the player to enter other biomes with higher environmental risks and less basic resources. Combat and enemies are an ADDITIVE, originating from another genre, and will of course expand and enhance the survival experience - but for the majoritiy of players they have become the MAIN characteristic of the survival genre ("the forest-like"). Also survial can be 2D or 3D (third and/or first person) which also changes the kind of players it will appeal to. Additional distinctions are: Is there a build (and construction) mode and if which kind: blueprints (everything 3D with blueprints now is "subnautica-like" - really?!) or free build? Procedural map generation? Some story? Quests/Tasks? Puzzle-like elements? Platforming sections? MP-Coop? ..... The summing up of all variants under the simple header "survival" makes it very difficul to find the game that appeals to you as player and also difficult to recommend a certain "survival" game to others.
@robertskitch
Жыл бұрын
It's so gratifying to hear someone talk about the origins of the adventure genre. These days I'm not so sure that people think of adventure as a genre so much as they just think of it as an adjective.
@lifenotsupported
Жыл бұрын
In my limited experience as a game developer, I’ve found comparison the most efficient way to communicate my game to potential players. I just say ‘Raft in space’ and people familiar with the survival game genre immediately understand what they’re getting themselves into. However, it always seems to excite people more and give a more personal and deep response when they make that connection themselves, from looking at screenshots or gameplay. So whilst there’s good utility’s using such a comparison it robs people of making that connection themselves. However, it’s a lot easier than saying ‘a space survival game based on scavenging mechanics with a grid-based building system where you drift through a vast field of debris’.
@TheLudomancer
Жыл бұрын
Comparing games as wholes? Not unless they're extremely similar or specifically highlighting differences. Comparing how specific games handle specific features/solve specific problems? Good shit.
@Kangaroodoo
Жыл бұрын
Time to rewatch the video again because I got distracted by the combinations of words and footage again (like "recall" with LoL, "wired" with that phone operation game, etc.) Luckily Raz only makes absolute gems of video essays, so watching them multiple times is a joy.
@SuperSpider9098
Жыл бұрын
When playing games I'll usually specify how its like a game, so I'd say "it has similar combat to Dark Souls, but the open world exploration of BoTW, with the story telling of Last of Us" and that usually does the job well enough
@wolfsongaz
Жыл бұрын
I find the part on how people find different things to be the most important when they make a comparison and assume everyone else understands to be important to note, if anything to take away from the video its that. Especially with Outer Wilds being mentioned alongside its focus on exploration, I actually recommended the game to someone on an entirely different axis. I find Outer Wilds to be most fascinating as a story that can only exist as a game, the exploration is the reason it works at all but is not to me the focus, only the means. But I recommended it to someone because I was thinking about the first thing and did the mandatory "nah you just gotta go in blind", turns out they hate games with no direction and were hoping for a character focused game in terms of story since I mentioned story. So I probably recommended the worst game for them, oops. Now if someone asked me to describe Outer Wilds, that its about exploring and figuring things out would have been the first thing I mentioned, and this wouldn't have happened. I rarely make recommendations too, almost never, so my confidence that they would love it because they loved a similar game on the story end was a bit embarrassing.
@platycorn5301
Жыл бұрын
My take on this, which I think what you were largely saying in this video is that comparisons are at their strongest when the intentions behind the aspect being compared is similar. It's useful to explore how breath of the wild and outer wilds capture the excitement of exploration and discovery in different ways is more useful than comparing the movement styles in each game for example. Looking at why games that feel similar despite their obvious differences can lead to a better understanding of each game. I also think it can be valuable to look at using mechanics differently can be useful, especially when thinking of how to design your own game, like seeing how different games approach health/healing to understand the nuances in creating a health/healing system depending on your goal.
@_ericc.
Жыл бұрын
This really is the dark souls of video essays
@pupylver
Жыл бұрын
inevitably tho in any medium of art your gonna have comparisons
@PhilipAJones
Жыл бұрын
There's a saying I heard once: "Comparison is the thief of joy."
@retinas2001
Жыл бұрын
The silhouettes on the thumbnail almost all make sense apart from two of the pairs. Mario is opposite Hat Kid because Mario is like A Hat in Time, the protagonist from Spelunky is opposite Isaac because Spelunky is like The Binding of Isaac, and so on. They all work except for Kirby being opposite Pac Man and Solaire being opposite Crash Bandicoot.
@yavorvlaskov5404
10 ай бұрын
There is an inherent paradoxical quality to discussions when it comes to comparing games, as the video clearly points out, since sometimes comparing them makes little sense considering how different things they bring to the table. However, at the same time, it makes *all* the sense, as everything comes at an opportunity cost. The (subjectively) cheapest opportunity cost is time - yes, RDR2 and GoW came at around the same time, which means that around the same time you could only play one of them. When you are done, you would have something else competing for your time. They same can be applied for money as the opportunity cost - maybe you can buy just the one game at X moment in time. Until we exist at a quantum level, everything comes at a cost, and any cost is comparative.
@joseortizreflects
Жыл бұрын
Interesting observations you make, Raz. I remember when my brother first played Arkham City. He wanted Batman to be able to climb walls like an Assassin, and when he revisited Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, he wanted Ezio to glide like Batman.
@zoulsgaming9455
Жыл бұрын
One of the things that i feel was heavily missing is that we dont have "genre" we have "genres", the best example is the community tags on steam forexample. "action" and "Adventure" is definitely broad, but if i click on Brotato it has "action roguelike, roguelite, arena shooter, top down shooter, bullet hell, casual and 2D" which even if you dont know what the game is gives you a broad idea of it Similarly taking gotham knights the top tags are "Action, super hero, open world, online co-op, action RPG, singleplayer, adventure, third person, rpg, stealth, multiplayer, story rich, dark" which again gives some idea of what the game is. Obviously we start to branch genres as they become inadequate, such as the "hero shooter" genre of overwatch and paladins, or "shooter looter" like borderlands and destiny instead of just calling them FPS. But its important to look at them in context because "RPG, story heavy, singleplayer" gives an entirely different game than "RPG, Top down, Co-op, casual" forexample
@aryantzh2028
Жыл бұрын
nah, i'd prefer evolution comparison for seeing how graphic and gameplay evolved rather than which one is better. because u can love all of them at the same time. its not like comparing phone, laptop, pc, tv, house, etc. when u only need 1 or 2 in ur life. but every games, movies, music, foods, etc. can be enjoyed at the same time.
@ionmeth2031
Жыл бұрын
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@ريّان-ذ4ت
Жыл бұрын
I think top 10 lists do a lot to harm games by comparing to each other. To this day I can never pin down even a top 5 list, I can only manage to mention a few games I love
@TheRealVitz
Жыл бұрын
I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much every single point you made. Preferring one game over another only means so much. And it only means anything if the games are remotely similar. When someone who isn't very experienced with games asks me whether they should get RDR2 or the new COD (for example), they usually don't understand that it's a complex question. I do enjoy getting into it with them and everyone has been understanding of my point so far. It's just a scenario you only seem to really get once you've gone down the rabbit hole that is gaming in this day and age, with its huge amount of genres and combinations of them. If you feel like you have the knowledge: Inform those who are just starting out and are asking for advice! You can help them develop their taste with the least amount of disappointment and you might get a gaming buddy out of it for online play. At worst they'll decide games aren't their thing. At best, they grow into a hobby or even a passion for what I consider the greatest medium of entertainment there is.
@KanashimiMusic
Жыл бұрын
I rarely watch videos of this length nowadays, but I still always watch your videos because I just KNOW it'll be interesting.
@purrenthetical3416
Жыл бұрын
1. Ask what a friend likes to play 2. Ask what they like about the games they play 3. Relate it to other games that fit the parts that said friend enjoys 4.??? 5.Profit
@animusnocturnus7131
Жыл бұрын
A good way to talk comparatively about two titles is to not let the conversation devolve into absolutes, but keep them within relatives, the best of which are subjective "I-statements". For example: Warframe, Destiny 2, as well as The Division 2 are all considered to be looter shooters. Of all of them I like The Division 2 the best, even though by considering my tastes you would never think that, since I generally prefer Science Fantasy over more mundane stuff. And due to this I loved the setting of Warframe way over the other two, but I find the weapon choice to be inconveniently restrictive (there are LOTS of weapons, but it feels like only 2 of those are actually worth using basically) and the gameplay feels - compared to what the setup of the setting suggests - monotone and repetetive. Clinging to a wall and sneaking over hanging cables without being noticed is awesome for the 2 minutes that the gameplay actually allows you to do that, because higher levels make this approach basically impossible and the meta way to play is to just rush in an kill everything with a hammer. Not sure where the "Ninja" part of the game is to be found but I suspect it's relegated to the cutscenes and warframe trailers. While The Division 2 - unlike Destiny 2 for what I've seen so far - is also a bit restrictive regarding weapon choice (any game where there are special weapons that can do more advanced shit than others will be) you at least have at least one weapon per category that you can make viable with a number of builds. I would prefer a game where each weapon is viable and it just comes down to preference and your specific build if it can become meta or not, but at least with the category approach I can still choose my poison. Destiny 2 would have been my prefered game in that genere - in fact it was for quite a while - but I can't enjoy this game due to Bungie pulling payed content out of the experience. I would've loved spending my time in this game because the gunplay is terrific and the weapons fall neatly into the spectrum between "modern weapons that are just made more powerful" and "mothafukin space lazors" with a dash of "big effing sword". If I hadn't lost 60 bucks worth of content because the devs decided to just pull parts of their game away from the experience I would probably still play it today. But they basically broke my heart.
@Amanda-dn4ld
Жыл бұрын
As someone new to gaming, I have found this challenging. People love saying games are like Zelda but that means almost nothing to me because I don't even have the context to know that it means a puzzle game.
@CaptainGulasch
Жыл бұрын
What really blew my mind, is that Pokémon Mystery Dungeon is a Rogue-Like at its core
@OTrizy
Жыл бұрын
everytime you said 'discourse' i anticipated 'discord' everytime and that difference was jarring, like i didnt learn from my 'mistakes' and still expect discord
@wolvus553
Жыл бұрын
I love how theres a reference to "dark souls of platformers" in the thumbnail
@kylespevak6781
Жыл бұрын
I think you're skipping over the fact that we use video games for comparison at first until a new genre is established. "Doom clone" became first person shooter. "Smash clone" became platform fighter. "GTA clone" became open world sandbox. If you're only way to describe a game is by comparing it to another than it's probably an emerging genre that has yet to be named
@bradensorensen966
Жыл бұрын
The best genre-defining game names are more specific than “adventure.” Like “rogue-like,” “souls-like,” or even better “souls-borne.”
@Fachewachewa
Жыл бұрын
While arguing about games and making tierlists is mostly for fun, I don't think comparison has such little value for critique. "Comparing it to something else that isn't that similar", or "it's different you can't compare it" aren't things I believe in. Like said in the video, RDR2 and GoW have different goals, but how good they are depends on how well they reached those goals. And some games fulfill their visions more than other. There's also specific parts of games. RDR2 and GoW are both stories driven by characters, there's no reason this couldn't be compared. The fact that one has brawler combat and the other shooter combat (or action vs turnbased for Persona / Xenoblade) isn't even that big of a difference. That's still combat. Even if you take multiple turnbased RPG you'll always (sometimes ?) find variations in the combat system. Each difference isn't preventing comparison, on the opposite, they can only be different if you compare them to the other games. In the end, game have different methods of reaching they goals, but there isn't an infinity of goals. Most games end on a relatively small scale of exploration, decision making, skill tests and narrative, which are also things people expect more or less from games. Sure, someone who wants exploration and story will probably prefer Outer Wilds over XCom, and I guess that's where "you can't compare them" makes sense, because the goals and expectations are different. But Subnautica, which I often see recommended to people who liked Outer Wilds, goes for similar goals. It can seem weird because there's no crafting in Outer Wilds and no time loop in Subnautica, but people still find enough similarities between the two games. In that case, why couldn't both be compared? How do crafting and the timeloop compare as mechanics to make the player discover and master each game's space? The timeloop is initially punitive and the game bets on the player's curiosity, while crafting is an easy way to constantly motivate players. One motivation is mostly intrinsic, the other extrinsic, which one ends up being the most rewarding in the end? Then again, if someone wants a survival game - crafting and building implied - recommending Outer Wilds or comparing it to Subnautica wouldn't make sense. My point is, games don't exist in a vacuum. And I feel that often, avoiding comparisons is a way to simply avoid criticism. From a fan POV that's all good, but the issue is that it's something I find also in reviews. For example, a game like The Case of the Golden Idol will constantly be compared to Obra Dinn, which makes sense, but I haven't seen those comparison used to highlight what Golden Idol does differently / better, but mostly to say "it's similar" or "it's good but still not as good". And I guess it makes sense because Obra Dinn likes are not a genre yet. But when Metroid Dread came out, years of indies making great metroidvanias somehow barely existed. The only game Dread was constantly compared to was Samus Returns, because you could say that they improved a lot. Basically, when a game is big enough, it is allowed to exist in a relative vacuum, and it doesn't matter if it's not anything new or better. That's also something very noticeable in reviews for Ubisoft games. And when we're talking reviews, informing the reader about a game often means telling them the value one game has compared to others anyways, because time (and money) isn't infinite, and that something all games require. "You can't compare them, it's too different" just prevents any of that. In the end, if you want to make a tierlist, a review, or a more in depth critique of a game, comparison is never a bad option, it's just a tool. And like all tools, it can be used by bad people. (For example, people who think God of War is better than Red Dead Redemtpion 2 😈😈😈)
@bes03c
Жыл бұрын
For me, the sense of progression kept me playing Slay the Spire. Unlocking new heroes and cards kept me going. (I have over a hundred hours in it.)
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