I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4wd adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register
@miznitic5574
10 ай бұрын
I would love to hear your analysis on hitch mounted winches.
@MadMatt4WD
10 ай бұрын
@@miznitic5574 Hey. So long as the winch mount is designed correctly they have their place. But for the most part, I don't think they're a worthwhile solution. They definitely can work and be safe.
@harrywalker968
6 ай бұрын
yes me.. ive asked this Q, & had no A.. my Q, is, what, is the shear kg of a hitch pin. seeing you can tow 4t, its the pin taking the strain, not the hitch.. what material are they made from, various, will they shear, or bend. the clevis, might hold 5t, but the chain is fixed to a 5mm pin. so the pin, has to hold 20t, 4 times strain.. ronny dahl, had to cut a tow ball half way thru, before it gave.. pins need to be rated, the same as balls, shackles ect. its the pin.. @@MadMatt4WD
@MadMatt4WD
6 ай бұрын
@@harrywalker968 There's lots to consider here. 1st the tow hitch has no rating for a recovery as it's designed to tow. So everything we're doing is unrated and at best could be considered best practice. The loads subjected when towing are actually quite low. To tow 4T you do not need 4T of lifting capacity. Just think you can push a small car but you can't lift one. The hitch pin is in a double shear which significantly increases it's strength but again there is no rating on it.
@dbadventures9869
2 жыл бұрын
One of the first things anyone ever buys for their 4WD is a nice shovel to proudly strap to the roof rack to make it look like a serious adventure machine. It is also the one piece of recovery equipment that I rarely see being used. Taking as much of the load out of the situation as you can by digging the restrictions out from under the 4WD, can be the difference between a deadly snatch and a simple tow out of a hole.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree. I did a video the other day showing getting unbogged with just a shovel.
@streammlock09
Жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD link?
@keithhaycraft3765
Жыл бұрын
I agree with @badadventures. I have saved a lot of recovery effort by using a shovel, it is especially useful in soft sand. On top of that, it is super handy around the fire.
@ike8236
Жыл бұрын
Something that always gets used when you're alone but when you get to camp it's the first thing off the roof ready for a fire or bog hole.
@luigismushrooms5701
Жыл бұрын
Mine folds and sits in the back, use it every time I'm stuck pretty much... I find those plastic boards people carry to be far more obnoxious.
@cyclemoto8744
2 жыл бұрын
Have always wondered about the integrity or a hitch pin if used as part of a recovery system. Your explanation is so logical that it left me wondering why I hadn't found the answer myself. Cheers
@aviatr2000
2 жыл бұрын
Great info! Brilliant!! When I was young and foolish, I took all kinds of dangerous short cuts. Now that I’m older and wiser, I’m thankful when I find safe and proper info like this. Thank you!
@3.0colorado21
2 жыл бұрын
I usually use just the pin when I happen upon a stuck car in a place it shouldn’t be. To be clear, I remove my receiver and ball and use just the pin. Again, I have never seen a pin fail but I have seen balls break and damn near hit people. I saw a ball break and go into a tree so deep we had no chance of getting it. I have also seen cheap amazon D rings (clevis hook) bend open and release. Recovering a stuck vehicle is just potentially really dangerous if taken lightly or done without care. Appreciate you shedding light on good safety habits.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate.
@stayraddad4638
2 жыл бұрын
This is the exact content we need :) Clearly explained and no short cuts . Thanks again !
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Stay rad Dad. 😁 cheers
@xmo552
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD I was going to mention those Factor55 stuff. I flew out to the 2022 Florida Tow show earlier this year. It's kind of like a SEMA convention for the American tow truck industry. I approached the Factor55 booth and they had some damaged samples of their gear. I asked why they would display such items. They replied by saying to show that this stuff is actually tested and certified correctly. I'm a fan of their stuff now that I know that. And, you're correct if you get stuck, play time is over and you need to look at it as a serious recovery. Don't just wing it, throw a chain on it and yank. Vehicle damage is almost guaranteed but loss of life is very real.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@xmo552 well said. You can support us by getting gear from our gear store. Cheers
@jarrodlethborg7942
2 жыл бұрын
The "change of attitude" is a great point. I wish everyone took the time to watch your recovery videos before they start wheeling. I'm so glad that I did. Thanks for what you do.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks kindly
@frankhage1734
2 жыл бұрын
Very informative video. I've revamped my own kit for recovery. For me, it's usually a winter, snow situation. It's not hard nor expensive to get prepared to do something potentially dangerous. It does take a certain mindset to go home home without trauma. Always try to imagine the worst outcome. A flying tow hitch toward the windshield is the nightmare scenario.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Great comment
@TuffRR
2 жыл бұрын
A good educational video on a bit of a contentious topic. One of the arguments for not using the hitch pin is that it is not rated and tested for that sort of load. That is reasonable, but that logic can also be applied to the whole Toyota/Hayman Reece/'insert brand here' tow assembly. AFAIK, these are also not tested or rated for the forces of a kinetic recovery. So it comes back to common sense, education and risk mitigation, which is i guess part of the reason you do these videos. So thanks. 👍
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Yes it’s difficult when so much of what we’re doing is not real good but works if we’re careful
@garychandler4296
5 ай бұрын
And kinetics RULE! 😂
@josephtucciarone6878
Жыл бұрын
I wanted to cheap out, but having had some engineering training, your excellent explanation sold me. I'll buy the correct Shackle Hitch Receiver. Thank you for your wise guidance.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for being willing to learn. We all have to grow.
@rich7447
11 ай бұрын
I had the same issue with wanting to be cheap. Especially since I have 3 different receiver sizes (2", 2.5" and 3"). It ended up costing me $350 to get all three from Factor55.
@harrywalker968
6 ай бұрын
its still the shear kg of the pin. your hitch is good for say 5t, what is the pin good for.. being an engin neer.. you should know the shear of different steels, or if chinese, plastic..
@taringaturi6950
6 ай бұрын
I have used the pin to snatch out few vehicles several times and have had great success. But I agree, using the correct gear is always a must.
@Ben3908ABC
2 жыл бұрын
Good on you Matt. You've probably saved at minimum one person's life with this video so kudos to you.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate. Just doing what I can to help
@wb5mgr
Жыл бұрын
People should always remember that in most cases only 4-6 bolts are holding those hitches onto that vehicle. 8 if your lucky. I had a hitch on my F250 almost fall off after towing a trailer through the mountains because the bolts stripped out of the holes in the frame. It had been removed by a body shop for service and then put back after the repairs and instead of them replacing it with new bolts they had put it back with the original bolts and I’m assuming tightened everything up with an air impact that probably stripped out the fasteners 😮 II towed that trailer all through the smoky mountains like a death trap not realizing it was wiggling it’s way loose. Safety chains are no help if the whole hitch falls off the vehicle. I would advise anybody who’s doing off-road recovery on a regular basis to just have their hitch welded to the frame to make sure it can’t shear off. Especially if you do a lot of these recoveries and then go pull a trailer.
@awestruck9075
Жыл бұрын
Doesn't welding the frame, weaken it? Best off checking and replacing the bolts as required.
@rh4402
9 ай бұрын
Don’t weld to frame
@NismoXero
2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly on your assessment! The pin in only useable for low energy straight line pulls. I did nicely radius the edges on my receiver and upgrade the pin to a grade 8 bolt but still would only use it in a low energy, emergency situation. Great video!
@gldsmith61
Жыл бұрын
You may have just saved a life. Thank you for vid's like this, the info need's to get out there. I don't know why I have not seen any of you vid's, but after I saw this one I knew I had to subscribe.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
Thanks mate. KZitem is a bit odd in how it shows videos but I’ve got lots of content along these lines. Thanks for the sub.
@contributor7219
2 жыл бұрын
It speaks volumes to the level of technical skill involved in off road recoveries that most military forces around the world have dedicated recovery mechs and dedicated recovery vehicles - including tracked recovery vehicles. I've worked with them many times over the years and because the 'Reccy Mechs' live and breathe recoveries of heavy vehicles the safety factors they work with are substantial. As you correctly point out, people can use recovery equipment recreationally with no formal training, no scheduled inspection or testing of recovery equipment, and no understanding of the forces involved. As we have very recently seen it can be a lethal combination. Let's hope people watch and absorb the messages you are sharing.
@trickster8635
Жыл бұрын
Well said. As an ex-reccy-mech, I shudder, sometimes, at what I see happening out there in "no idea land".
@drewgrant3626
2 жыл бұрын
This is a great video to get people thinking a bit more before undertaking a recovery, however there seem to be inconsistencies in the logic and figures (please correct me if my thinking is wrong!). First - under test conditions the tow bar pin bent at 9000kg, which was stated as being too low to use in a recovery situation, however the recovery tongue was stamped with a Max Load of 9500Lb (approx 4300kg). Surely that would mean the recovery tongue isn’t suitable either when using an 8000 - 15000kg snatch strap?? I have always used the tow bar pin - through the eye of a snatch strap. The strap eye is the same width at the internal size as the receiver - so in my thinking, it spreads the load over the full width of both the pin and the snatch strap eye. My thinking is the less metal bits attached (recovery tongue and/or bow shackle) the better… As far as recovery speed goes - be careful of going too slow when recovering in soft sand with a snatch strap… I have seen both vehicles stuck with the snatch strap under tension between both cars, and unable to be removed without a lot of mucking around to move one vehicle backwards - I find it better to use a bit more speed to allow one vehicle to ‘spring’ back a bit, removing tension from the strap. Keen to hear your thoughts! Regards Drew
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Drew. Read this from factor 55. Then watch Roberts video linked in description which talks about the forces involved in recovery and every moment of speed is dangerous. The 2” hitch itself is rated for 9500 lbs. that’s the max load. That’s why the 2” HitchLinks, all of them have 9500 lbs machined into them. Our parts have not seen yielding in testing until just before breaking. What’s this mean? Every other item you have attached to the HitchLink and pin will fail before either of those do. Standard duty soft shackle - 39K Tow Strap- 31K KERR- 29K HitchLink 2.0 - 51K Hitch pins- 50+K The entire off-road industry functions off break strength not WLL. 3/8 Synthetic rope breaks between 18-22K so a 5:1 means it’s WLL is only 4.4K on a 12K winch? It’s about quality of materials and validation through testing.
@Anathoth
2 жыл бұрын
Factor 55 has videos of the destructive testing they've done on their hitchlinks. They've sustained above a 50K pound load before ultimate failure. In testing, their hitch pins have a double shear strength somewhere in excess of that. Other quality hitch pins can shear at a lower load. Factor 55 posted results years ago of a US Army destructive test of their hitchlink 2.0, which had a different type of hitch pin double shear at 47K pounds, without failure of the hitchlink itself. That's still a lot higher than the point at which a pin would fail from directly attaching a recovery rope to it- double shear compared to single shear.
@jr487
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for answering my question in such detail. You have convinced me to go out and buy a hitch receiver recovery point
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
My pleasure. . Head to my gear store at madmatt4wd.com.au
@ian9toes
Жыл бұрын
I used the pin a few times without drama, but that was only in a 2wd VW Transporter that doesn’t take much to get bogged and with a hand winch. I also filled the edges of the inside of the hitch receiver. But I never considered the radius of the bend of the tow rope on the pin.
@MustangsTrainsMowers
2 жыл бұрын
In 1973 our neighbor got his tractor stuck in the field. They tried pulling it out backwards using a stretchy rope and the rope snapped a flew into the cab of the stuck tractor and instantly killed the guy inside. After then my dad would never let anyone use a stretchy rope on our farm. I’m guessing that the stretchy rope that they use now are safer.
@Malc664
2 жыл бұрын
That's sad mate. Sounds like heavy-duty cable winches would be needed on that kind of job.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
That’s so sad and unfortunately still happens way to often.
@xmo552
2 жыл бұрын
When I began in the tow industry my boss used to warn me of the dangers of a snapped cable, flying hitch, or flying bumper. Any of those situations should obviously be avoided.
@JimP226
11 ай бұрын
Sad story. But was it the stretchy rope that killed the guy or the attachment device? If it was the attachment device I'd say equal risks exists shock loading a cable or a chain the same way. I'd argue probably more so because a cable or chain breaking has a lot of weight on its own, whereas a rope would have a fraction of the kinetic energy.
@MustangsTrainsMowers
11 ай бұрын
@@JimP226 I don’t know which as I was 6. The tractor just sat there for about 10 days with its duals stuck deep into the ground.
@chrishorning3937
Жыл бұрын
I bent a pin once, I never did it that way again. I saw the potential for what could have happened.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
Well done
@ED-es2qv
Жыл бұрын
I can anecdotally say I’ve ruined a number of straps early by ignoring the bend radius issue. I’ve had a number of them fail right where I regularly bend them sharper than they want. They have always taken it for years, but maybe not as many as they should.
@kingwiththeax6880
Жыл бұрын
Good advice. In addition, it’s important to point out that all hitch pins are not of equal strength. I have a steel hitch basket. It’s rated for 350lbs load. The receiver pin included with the basket is the cheapest, lightest pin I have ever encountered. If that’s your only pin you have for a recovery situation, it will fail to some extant, and that would be an unhappy moment. The basket is only designed to carry a moderate percentage of tongue load, without dropping the basket. Not for pulling a fully loaded trailer.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
I’ve not seen that design but it sounds concerning for use outside of its design. Thanks for the encouragement.
@Warhorse469
6 ай бұрын
If you are concerned about the sharp edges on the hitch receiver, you can easily file them down in as little as 5 to 10 minutes. In case your vehicle gets stuck in sand and you have a clear straight path, using the hitching method is a good option. However, I believe that one of the most effective recovery methods for sand is to use Maxtracks or Treds. Remember to use the ribbons that come with them because once you are out of the sand, finding them without a shovel could be challenging. A shovel can be the best recovery tool you could ever have. Usually, I do not need to use the hitch pin method as I have enough recovery gear for both my 4WD and the person I am pulling out. The only time I would not use the hitch pin method is if the person is stuck in the mud. Anyone who has done off-roading before knows how much suction mud has on a bogged 4WD. In such situations, I use a winch, and if that fails, I use the tyre method to lift the stuck 4WD and break the suction. If that still doesn't work, then you may have to camp on the side of the track for the night.
@MadMatt4WD
6 ай бұрын
Sure you could file the receiver but that only solves one potential issue.
@jonstarnes7905
2 жыл бұрын
100% completely agree. I only intended it as a better solution than a hitch ball.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
👍
@bigjohn2048
2 жыл бұрын
It way past time somebody addressed this issue. Most people today have no idea what not to use for recoverys. More and more people are getting into off road driving. They have absolutely no idea about safe use of recovery equipment. If people are not taught how to use this equipment we are going to see more deaths and life changing injuries than ever before. At least half of the people off road today don t even have sense enough to get out of harms way when a rope or chain or winch line is being used. A lot of the time you don t get a second chance !!!!
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Well said. I’m trying my best
@tyronnagy1963
2 жыл бұрын
Great point..if you know you know.if not,you probably don’t know you don’t know. When I go wheeling I see p platers with a breaka iced coffee and no gear or it’s built cars with drivers who are experienced.
@aaronb7990
2 жыл бұрын
I saw someone bend a pin being way too aggressive on a pin hookup and it still didn't break or pull out. That's when I started doing it. There are many occasions where it is perfect for, even when out on an offroad trip. That said I have the gear to do it how it needs to be done or I don't do it. If a pin hookup and pull from stoped is enough I use that if not I usually prefer to just switch to the winch, let a heavier rig do it, or have 2 rigs pull together if its a traction issue. In the sand is my exception to not bumping, and even then I never go over 2mph. Like you eluded to, at a certain point you rip things apart or start bending other stuff. A complex recovery takes carefull monitoring of changes to the load and recovery points, if the recovery is going to bend the pin its probably best to not be hooking to the hitch at all but instead to a couple of places on the frame. If off angle the recovery receiver is the best thing since sliced bread, it was the first recovery peice that I got and is always in when offroad... also it protects my spare tire from catching on drop-offs which is nice. A great follow up for this would be a video called. 'Where should I have recovery points?' Or something similar.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Great comment. Cheers
@vaughanscott7308
9 ай бұрын
Great video man, great point on the double sheer. Thanks for the info 👍 👍
@DonziGT230
Жыл бұрын
5:55 The pin bends after exceeding the snatch strap's rating by over a ton; it seems that pulling by the pin is safer than the rest of the video claims. It would be interesting to know how much more it takes to break the pin since a bent pin doesn't create a hazard.
@DonziGT230
8 ай бұрын
@thegunsngloryshow Stainless is often weaker than steel, tho it depends greatly on the type of steel used. Locking pins with the push button release are hollow so they'll be weaker. One could get a tool steel or other high grade steel for the pin.
@garychandler4296
5 ай бұрын
Or a grade 8 bolt? 😂
@DonziGT230
5 ай бұрын
@@garychandler4296 And if you snug it down with a nut it'll take even more pulling to bend it.
@Walkercolt1
Жыл бұрын
Most hitch pins aren't that strong. An ARP grade 9 bolt in the receiver is another matter! A grade 9 bolt with a nut to secure it will pull thru the receiver before it bends-ask me how I know!!! Hey, I got the 4-wheeler out with my 2 WD truck and he paid me for a new hitch and gave me $500 to boot. My new hitch has a "sacrificial" receiver that can be replaced-great idea Reese!
@jfloydsea
2 жыл бұрын
Great info. I’ve got the F55 hitch link in my recovery kit, luckily haven’t needed to use it yet.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
At least you’re prepared. Well done
@darrellmendiola3495
Жыл бұрын
Great teaching on this. Love your channel.
@DTGTDetectingTheGoldenTriangle
2 жыл бұрын
Love all your tec tips 👍unfortunately more 4x4 owners die on there way to the bush rather than when there actually 4wheeling or recovering there vehicle 😥 no need to rush to the bush it will still be there even if your late your alive
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Great point
@Andy-Gibb
Жыл бұрын
When you do a harness course in the construction industry you are taught that your securing point to hold a person needs to be strong enough to hold the weight of a car if you want to use it to secure a person at height. If you need to pull a vehicle out your securing point needs to be able to hold a dump truck at least. Are you using the correct point. Would you be able to lift the dump truck off the ground with the securing point you are using? Makes you think doesn't it.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
Yes and I wish more people would think
@digitalbilly
2 жыл бұрын
great video, im glad i got a proper recovery points
@pradeeppitiyegedera4101
Жыл бұрын
Great advice with lots of information
@hairybubbles127
Жыл бұрын
Hitch pins are for towing. "With great caution" in an emergency is spot on. Replace your hitch pin with a grade 9 bolt with correct shoulder length and you'll feel better about the contingency. Further, your emergency gear does not work if it isn't in the rig.
@bobvincent4841
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video and potentially life saving info.
@SoDogtravels
2 жыл бұрын
No I can’t use this it’s just not a good idea. Love the way you explain it. The people like mattsoffroad that use a solid receiver to pull it’s still a bad idea with the pin as a week link
@dcf476
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you made a mentioning of the max speed you should use to recover, I was wondering as the F55 hitch can only hold 4.5ish tonne, how much loads up during a recovery. So I'm taking it that at 15kph you're going to be up at around that 4.5T momentum load?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
I want to explore that. Rabert Pepper has done a video around the subject of recovery loads and the numbers are high.
@dcf476
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD thanks for the clue to go hunting, found it kzitem.info/news/bejne/xaOrq5WZo6ZyiYo pretty scary numbers hey!
@brucebaxter6923
2 жыл бұрын
As you said earlier. Use the safest stuff you have.
@user-nk4gm7bi2v
Жыл бұрын
OK Matt, I have respect for most of Robert Peppers writings but have also pointed out to him inaccuracies in his book.
@Riskybyz28
2 жыл бұрын
it is a shear pin meant for minimal clearance between two points. the answer is a very simple "no."
@banger0250
Жыл бұрын
I've bent a hitch pin with a too heavy snatch strap,(10tonne strap} will never do it again, just got the pin out. It was a Wally stuck on the beach entrance completely bellied out, I had forgot my recovery hitch. Rushing is a recipe for disaster.
@Badgertronix
2 жыл бұрын
Some good points. Thanks
@adelarsen9776
Жыл бұрын
Safety is everyone's responsibility. Nationally accredited training and education in 4wd is important.
@chriscoulthard4947
2 жыл бұрын
The tow bar assembly is designed for towing. Not for off road recovery. How many bolts hold it to the vehicle ? And how rusty are the mounting points. There is so much to think about.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree
@glennstanley2892
9 ай бұрын
Actually, If you use the pin only, and the rope is centered, it is still in dbl shear, but you are imposing an additional bending stress on the pin. So the shear stress is the same whether you use the hitch receiver or not. Of course the rope would probably go to one side or the other causing more shear to be distributed to one side or the other which is not good. If you used a flat strap instead of a kinetic rope you would reduce that additional bending stress, but probably not eliminate it, and you would probably distribute the shear to both ends of the pin mimicking what a receiver would do to a some extent. So the hitch receiver is definitely better bc it reduces the bending and distributes the shear evenly, but if you used a flat strap, I believe the additional bending stress would not be as much, so it would be sort of an in-between scenario from what you depict.
@MadMatt4WD
9 ай бұрын
I think if you do some research you’ll find it’s not in double shear because the centre of the pin on the load side is not supported.
@darcydaggett
2 жыл бұрын
I'm very confused. The rated hitch is rated to about 4.3 tonnes and the pin bends at over double that. I don't see an issue with using the pin. I've done massive pulls with the pin and no issues. I've tried to pull big trucks out of gullies and all the happens is my ute gets slung backwards before anything thinks about bending.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
The rating of the hitch is determined by the tow pack in testing it fails way way above anything we’re going to do. Use the correct gear.
@burtreynolds3143
Жыл бұрын
"four wheel drive recovery professionals" perfect
@alancadieux2984
10 ай бұрын
I have wondered in the past, and still, about the ratings on these pins, simply for their intended use. There is SO much hullaballoo about the rating on the hitch & on the ball ect. But the pin used to hold it all in place is like... whatever 🤷 surley there is more to know about it. The question is, who actually knows? The manufacturer? Probably, however, isn't it the end user that really needs to know?!?!
@MadMatt4WD
10 ай бұрын
I’ve heard from a reliable source they bend at nine ton when fitted correctly. But when towing they won’t get subjected to anywhere near that load.
@alancadieux2984
10 ай бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD 18,000lbs ok well that helps to put some things into perspective. As per the points you were making, not everyone uses them this way, but it can do..."something" thank-you, from Canada 🇨🇦
@veryaware
2 жыл бұрын
Good stuff all accurate. Found it via Robert Pepper
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate
@MontanaWelldigger
2 жыл бұрын
Yes
@williamreeves3492
2 жыл бұрын
You can call it a New South Wales socket set, not a shifting spanner. Here in the states it's an Arkansas socket set.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@Jacobff99
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video 👍🏽
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
My pleasure!
@crispernator
Жыл бұрын
good video mate as you say emergency stuations only for a pin recovery ,sorry to be a party pooper but are they load rated shackes your using for your tow chains where i live its illegal not to have them and tow a trailer or van and they get a few at the ramp too .
@HOWNDOG66
9 ай бұрын
I’m not understanding the comparison of the pin bending at 9 metric tons or almost 20000lbs to that item that’s approved but rated at only 9500lbs. Myself I use high strength bolt in place of hitch pins. Not likely to be the failure point. Probably tear the vehicle’s frame in half first
@MadMatt4WD
9 ай бұрын
Generally a rating is for what it’s safe to do which by definition should be less than any point at which it’ll fail. Yes I use a bolt on the 200 as well.
@HOWNDOG66
9 ай бұрын
@@MadMatt4WDUnfortunately, I can’t trust a rating that a manufacturer gets by submitting their hand picked part for certification but then mass producing it the cheapest way possible. I can’t put my safety in the hands of a stamp that’s only there to sell a product by giving you a false sense of security. Keep up with the interesting videos.
@overlandready
2 жыл бұрын
Great video and glad you're doing this set of videos. As said before, should you be recovering off the tow bar? What is it rated to? No point in a 9t hitch pin, 9t hitch adaptor and 8t strap if the actual bar on the vehicle is only rated at 3.5t trailers. The forces are very different to towing a trailer, so do we know what the hitch is actually rated at for recovery? Worth a thought. 🙂
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Have a read of this from Factor55. The 2” hitch itself is rated for 9500 lbs. that’s the max load. That’s why the 2” HitchLinks, all of them have 9500 lbs machined into them. Our parts have not seen yielding in testing until just before breaking. What’s this mean? Every other item you have attached to the HitchLink and pin will fail before either of those do. Standard duty soft shackle - 39K Tow Strap- 31K KERR- 29K HitchLink 2.0 - 51K Hitch pins- 50+K The entire off-road industry functions off break strength not WLL. 3/8 Synthetic rope breaks between 18-22K so a 5:1 means it’s WLL is only 4.4K on a 12K winch? It’s about quality of materials and validation through testing.
@iffykidmn8170
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD what is the 2" hitch mount rated for that is designed to bolt to a pickup step bumper? Pepper bent a pin at 9T or some such but what did it break at?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@iffykidmn8170 I'm not sure which hitch your refering too but if it's for towing it won't have a recovery rating. He didn't break it but i've heard from unconfirmed sources that theyve seen the fail in proper double shear as low as 16T
@iffykidmn8170
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD did the unconfirmed sources cut it half way thru before testing?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@iffykidmn8170 lol I know what your getting at. No these guys are professionals so I don’t think they were cutting things.
@jerryquintana2508
2 жыл бұрын
I'm curious about a one piece pintle hook. The part that slides into the receiver and pintle hook are one piece.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve not seen that design. The question to ask is what were the designers designing it to do? Is that what you’re doing with it?
@jamestanner9198
2 жыл бұрын
So the pin bends at 9 ton and the recovery point is rated to 9500 lb which is less than the 9 ton that it took to bend the pin. Did i get that correct ?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
You did but read this from Factor55 as an answer. The 2” hitch itself is rated for 9500 lbs. that’s the max load. That’s why the 2” HitchLinks, all of them have 9500 lbs machined into them. Our parts have not seen yielding in testing until just before breaking. What’s this mean? Every other item you have attached to the HitchLink and pin will fail before either of those do. Standard duty soft shackle - 39K Tow Strap- 31K KERR- 29K HitchLink 2.0 - 51K Hitch pins- 50+K The entire off-road industry functions off break strength not WLL. 3/8 Synthetic rope breaks between 18-22K so a 5:1 means it’s WLL is only 4.4K on a 12K winch? It’s about quality of materials and validation through testing.
@skullandcrossbones65
2 жыл бұрын
G'day, Thanks for the advice, Do you have advice on selecting the right Kinetic recovery rope. I used a 10,000lb to recover a Suzuki Alto (abopy 900kg), It was just like using chain.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
General rule is use a strap rated at 2-3 times the lightest vehicle.
@kromey111
2 жыл бұрын
A snatch strap would be better than a kinetic rope as it’s wider material on the pin ?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
No I don’t think so. The pin is still unsupported in the centre.
@fryingpan1069
2 жыл бұрын
Your snatch strap will snap before that pin breaks, the bolts that hold the whole tow point on will break before that does
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
You’ve tested this and can show us the test results? Use the correct gear ay. There’s no need to make do in this area. Some parts of the recovery system limit us but not this area.
@NismoXero
2 жыл бұрын
I've "broke" a pin pulling logs. It failed before my straps or the bolts on my receiver. Pin bent till it sheared the cotter pin off and pulled that end through it's hole. 90% of them are only grade 5 or less. Made in china ones... Grade peanut butter 😂
@petermills1402
2 жыл бұрын
Just a question and are we overthinking this, has soft shackles created more hassles than what they are worth at this towbar connection?... cannot figure out why the Hayman Reece tow hitch with the towball removed obviously? I have been leaving the standard tow hitch in the truck and bunging it back inside the hitch receiver then use a bloody big bow shackle thru the towball hole. This has worked for 50 years of 4WDing, many many kinetic tows, many snatch block winches, also many sideways pulling vehicle back on tracks. Also $180 for a hitch receiver.... WTF!
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Mainly because they are failing. You've got away with it as many others do but that dosn't make it best practice when we learn of failures. Check out this video from the other day. kzitem.info/news/bejne/k6h-3IWvpIClZYI
@petermills1402
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD my two bobs worth 'respectfully': the standard tow hitches are likely as strong in every way as the complete towbar assembly. To demonstrate this lets talk about the tow pin, they are not rated because there is no evidence worldwide of any (in good condition) ever failing. 16mm dia pins in 50mm hitches do not fail and it is an industry standard but never tested to my best research (or any tests are not made public). Now let us get to the actual tow hitch where the 50mm SHS (square hollow section) is welded to the often 18 to 20mm thick plate where the towball mounts. The welds as far as I have inspected in a local parking lot are 6 to 8mm fillet welds probably done with robots and perfect. The engineering rule of thumb (engineers will tell you not to use rules of thumb but they all do unless a full analysis of the joint is required) is that 200mm of 6 to 8mm fillet weld will take about 20-30 tonnes of pretty well any tearing, ripping, transverse, shear with a 3 to 5 safety factor. I rest my case that a 'standard' tow hitch will never fail as you say (by the way, lets see a few of the weld failures in standard hitches you mention?? not the stupid extended ones) with kinetic pulls when I will say the kinetic ropes will break long before any standard towhitch with a forking decent bow shackle thru the towball hole. Maybe head down to Swinburne Uni of Technology and ask nicely for them to test standard tow hitches with a 30mm offset of the tongue to the SHS tube. I spent many hours there destroying bolts, plates, welds and anything us students could get our hands on, 45+ years ago and you might be surprised. Then get one of those offset tow hitches like the one that horribly killed a person and test that (the one you demonstrate with the retracting tape measure with the 200mm torsional offset, moment arm, call it an offset force even), the result will be like chalk and cheese (sooooo much likely to fail in every way due to torsional forces that rip, tear and destroy). I did look at the photos of the accident hitch and it did not seem to break at the welds, the SHS tube was torn by torsional forces much higher than anything that could be applied to a standard hitch with any pull a driven vehicle could muster (not a shock pull with a chain, I think that as you say is dumb). Also most decent hitches now are one piece forged units (my 2021 hilux) that I reckon would be even stronger than the $180 alloy recovery units (maybe test these too?). In many ways I am saying that recovery item such as the alloy units that are very expensive are not generally needed and you really should be educating that standard hitches are OK and extended ones are not. You are not comparing apples with apples in your video and this really is important in an engineering sense. Maybe John Cadogan can help with some engineering stuff that your videos do really need. Also as an aside just maybe also say that $39 solid steel billet recovery receivers are around and we dont need this expensive stuff to stay safe.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@petermills1402 that’s more that two bobs worth. 😁 I dont disagree with you but take the time to read the comments and understand my audience. I can’t go into the subilties of the subject as you’ve explained. Most of my audience aren’t engineers nor have a concept of it so I try my best to stand in the gap for them between good engineering and bad practice. We have numerous examples of hitches and tow balls failing near the welds for a number of reasons. Fatigue rust, drop hitch, poor quality materials. So, do I try to explain all the different possible reasons to inspect a hitch or do I give a simple solution as to why they’re not always safe and provide a solution. I recommend Factor55 because they’re at the top of the game but I don’t care what people buy so long as it’s safe and not cheap fake stuff. I don’t force people to support what I do it’s their choice if they appreciate the free content I give to them. I also have a fairly large network of experts I engage with so that I’m always learning. There’re generally supportive and in agreement with my work. Obviously we we have differing opinions on some stuff but we work it through. Also John did comment on the video and is not a fan of hitches as a recovery device.
@petermills1402
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD here is a challenge for maybe you and Robert whom I also respect his opinions mostly: just contact Nobles Cranes and Testing Lab for some real testing with an actual engineer in charge and ask if they can test hitches to actually provide some evidence of your advocating (with little or no evidence) that the welds of a standard tow hitch are not safe at the loads of kinetic ropes and straps. Maybe up to 20 to 25 tonnes pull would be a good test, I reckon all your ropes would break and the hitch remain intact. Maybe a standard Hayman Reece 3500kg tow hitch is a good starting point then the forged tow hitches as on my recent toyota hitch. I also have inspected several of the 'alloy' recovery hitches some with towpin holes in both directions and these seem a bit 'how should I say' "interesting" and these should also be tested as I for one would not trust one without certified testing. There I have said it, some recovery hitches may not be safe... but I have no evidence, I guess we are in the same boat in an unregulated often cowboy industry of 4WD recovery. Only testing, not talk, will clear some things up and that is what I am really getting at. I would like to see you say that standard well branded tow hitches are OK but dodgy ones are not (just like you advocate a brand of recovery hitch but not others) and provide examples of both rather than just defer to the $180 hitch as the ants pants. Its KZitem you know and us viewers/users are very suspicious of product placement when other things will do the job safely. After all this we have not even begun to discuss towbar connections to vehicle chassis (nor the garbage chassis recovery points I have seen with pissy bolts and bendable plate steel with sideways pulls, some look freekin dangerous), I have seen towbars broken lots (torn off the chassis, maybe a couple of loose bolts could have helped, but your recovery hitches would sort that out I guess, its all about the weakpoint) due to a bit of overloading (but only a few hundred kgs of bouncing) and rough roads 'maybe' with likely vertical loads but still kinetic ropes of the 12000kg variety could shake the foundations of a thin steel chassis towbar bolted connection. Its a wild 'recovery' world out there with lots of on ground evidence (such as mine and yours experience) but little real evidence/testing..... thanks for the discussion.
@user-nk4gm7bi2v
Жыл бұрын
Matt, Like I originally said your vidio is all about selling Factor55 gear, Honestly tell me you didn't receive reward from Factor55 or a distributor. The 4WD industry needs to standardize it's rating system, Straps,winch lines, etc are in BREAKING Strain KG/LBS, while shackles etc, are in SWL/WLL, (safe working load/ working load limit) Aust has had a metric system for 50yrs now. The two different ratings only confuse the normal guy that just wants to know that the gear he is using all mates up and is safe to use. LIKE THE HITCH PIN, not just in an emergence.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
You won’t believe this but like you I do like to get paid for my work but Factor55 has never paid me to do any videos or content for them. I do make a small commission on the sale of an item if someone purchases but aside from that this video cost us money to make. As for your insistence on the use of the hitch pin you will find that you are well out of step with the council of most of the recovery authorities around the world. Don’t take my word for it though go and read @robertpeppers comment on your previous post as one example. Fyi I seek the council of many guys like Robert before I make these types of videos.
@stephenjeacocke1530
2 жыл бұрын
Would be nice to see load rateing from a load cell that’s hooked in-line when a snatch strap is being used in a recovery the force of the load might shock few ppl
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Yes we want to do this.
@chrisforgan731
2 жыл бұрын
trouble is most load cells arent designed to handle that sort of work. and those that are are bloody expensive.
@stephenjeacocke1530
2 жыл бұрын
And the shock load of the strap wouldn’t be good for them either there not a thing that like sudden loads
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@chrisforgan731 yeah I’ve not worked in that space but I’d think you’re right.
@Verdigris.
2 жыл бұрын
Question. I have a dedicate large shackle on a hitch, but if you have a choice between snatching off a pin vs snatching off a tow ball, the ball is worse. Right?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
. Never use the ball or hitch receiver. The hitch is known to fail at the weld which is what killed Ryan in my earlier video.
@DR.E-s3k
2 жыл бұрын
show me a video that shows one pin bending with tonage shown and a pin breaking with tonage shown and ill believe you in my mind they ok to use yes sharpe egdes are no good i've smoothed mine off and i have a bigger pin in my hitch then most 20 mm to be extact and the recovery hitch your showing has some pretty square ouside edges in my opinion the more rounded the edges are the better
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
I’ll stick with the designed and tested gear where possible.
@huntingadventureswithsy
Жыл бұрын
What is a good way to attach something to the frame of a vehicle then to a tow strap?
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
A shorty strap from Factor55 is a good tool or their Tree saver. My website has them at Madmatt4wd.com.au
@huntingadventureswithsy
Жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD okay great I will look into that!
@thedeathwobblechannel6539
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt I'm not sure under this screen name or another one I've mentioned on this subject on a few of your videos I use a giant steel hook goes in with a hitch pin and do a receiver and I don't have to do anything but drop the loop of my rope over the hook they're available in the states at U-Haul centers where they rent trucks and equipment for moving your home contents from one to another I'll be happy to send you one but I need an address and it's kind of heavy so it's going to cost a bit and it's going to take a long time to get there. For evaluation and experimenting and examination purposes
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Hey mate. Thanks for the offer. I don’t think I’d use something like that. I like a closed loop winching process which a hook has no part in.
@thedeathwobblechannel6539
2 жыл бұрын
No worries. With the snow in the ice and the stuff we got to deal with here sometimes dealing with screwing opinion gets pretty tedious. And I'm pretty careful with what I do I broke two inch cables and that's all never broke anything else since 2004, the winch cable is because I was stuck trying to drag the Jeep around so I could drive down the hill and back out of where I was at they didn't have a lot of tension on them both brakes were in the same stuck area at the same day
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@thedeathwobblechannel6539 working in extreme cold is foreign to me. I imagine it effects the cables.
@slandon1977
Жыл бұрын
Why you would carry a kinetic recovery rope and soft shackles in your rig but not the proper recovery receiver makes no sense. I can see a situation where you need one for the vehicle you are recovering, but as small as the receivers are it only makes sense to put two of them in your kit. People cheap out on the silliest stuff.
@kmvd967
4 ай бұрын
If the hitch is rated for 5k, wouldn't it be your weakest link?
@MadMatt4WD
4 ай бұрын
This is the problem. The hitch has no rating for recovery so we can only go on history which suggests they do t tend to fail assuming they’re in good order.
@larrybrewster9221
2 жыл бұрын
works well with a strap, which is what most people use,
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Yes but it’s not the best method as I explained.
@leevancleef553
2 жыл бұрын
I just had a look for recovery hitches on ebay and heaps are rated
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Yes the pin has no rating at all for this type of loading. The hitch reciever I show has the 4.3t (9500lbs) WLL but when. Tested failed at 23t (51000lbs). Personally I’d be careful of eBay stuff. They say it’s tested but it’s easy to fake it.
@timyogerst4349
2 жыл бұрын
A shackle hitch receiver (45,000lbs rating) or some soft shackles (around the hitch frame) won't cost more than $50 USD. Small price to pay to mitigate the weakness of a hitch pin spanning a 2" gap. Even my 7/8" clovis pin hitch is only rated for 10,000lbs and would not be trustworthy in a kinetic recovery. Everyone learns to respect Physics, sooner or later (too late for some, unfortunately.)
@ian1oo
8 ай бұрын
Good video Matt But that hitch at 9500 lbs when most trucks are around 3 ton then you load mud and suction. You have all ready over loaded it or same when stuck in ruts or on rocks 🪨 think on what you are saying then you should not use a hitch receiver either as it's not rated for job your thoughts
@MadMatt4WD
8 ай бұрын
I get what you’re saying. It comes down to what the rating refers to and in Offroad this is often an unknown. In this case it’s the WLL. Working load limit. Take 4.75t bow shackles. They have a safety factor of five. So even they’re being used outside of spec often. But all this comes back to doing our recoveries with greater safety. Not going like a bat out of hell with a kinetic recovery and not reducing the recovery load.
@user-nk4gm7bi2v
Жыл бұрын
I think this vid is designed to sell factor 55 hitch receivers, first point you make about the tow bar receiver being sharp is correct, the simple solution is to file the edges over, easy, Robert Peppers test of the hitch pin bending at 9,000kg/ 19,800lbs, that's a hell of a lot more than the factor55 hitch receiver is rated at 9,500lbs/ 4300kg, As a 4x4 nationally accredited assessor for over 25yrs and using the tow bar receiver and the hitch pin with a 8,000kg flat snatch strap I have never seen one pin bend, I have seen snatch straps break, so must have developed over 8,000kg.The factor55 hitch receiver looks good, they are NOT a necessary recovery item.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
Very few items are necessary. As an assessor I’m surprised your using the pin.
@user-nk4gm7bi2v
Жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD Go back to school and study Maths, If you take the 9,500lbs/4,300kg rating on the factor55 hitch, the weakest point in a snatch, using rated recovery points and a rated 8,000kg/17,600lb strap would be the 55 hitch, and the weakest point on the hitch would be the hole where the pin goes through, if that let go at that point on the hitch you would have a big hunk of metal flying towards the back of your vehicle, unless you used one or 2 drag chains as a dampener on the strap. one chain a third along the strap from each vehicle.
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
@@user-nk4gm7bi2v The reason the hitchlink is rated at the 9'500Lbs/4300kg is because that is the TOW rating of the tow pack. (limiting factor) The tow pack is rated at at WLL not a break strength. The offroad industry works on break strength NOT WLL therefore you can't compare the WLL of a hitchlink with a snatch straps break strength. Some numbers for you from @factor55 testing for when thier devices fail (break strength.) Standard duty soft shackle 39,000LB Tow Strap 31,000LB KERR 29,000LB Hitchlink2.0 51000LB Hitch Pin 50,000+ LBs Another example for you. 3/8 synthetic rope breaks between 18-22,000LBs so if you assume a safty of 5:1 that would mean it's WLL is going to be 3.6- 4.4K on a 12,000LB winch Here's the issue with using a pin it is not in true double shear the way it is when it's used with a hitchlink or the actual tow hitch. As you've found a strap used with care can be connected to a pin as an emergency recovery tool but it sould not be taught as being a safe method of recovery. As I'm sure you're aware according to the Australian standard we should not even be connecting a snatch strap or any recovery device to a tow pack/bar. Schools out.
@user-nk4gm7bi2v
Жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD Like I said previously, Have seen hundreds of snatch strap recoveries using the strap on the tow pin, never seen one bent yet
@MadMatt4WD
Жыл бұрын
@@user-nk4gm7bi2v which is why I maintain it can be used in an emergency but not as a primary connection point. I do hope you’re not teaching people to use it as a primary connection!
@ElLoboHombre
11 ай бұрын
You are using the wrong water tap at your spare wheel. That tap works under town pressure to push up the valve from the seat. Gravity fed water will not do this well. Use a ball valve instead.
@MadMatt4WD
11 ай бұрын
Ah yeah except this is on a pressure pump and works really well. 😜
@brucechapman-t4k
6 ай бұрын
used my hitch pin on a kinetic recovery and it BENT !!!🤣
@melthebelgian.5837
2 жыл бұрын
I disagree with a few points and agree with others, as for the speed you cover you didn't cover how much slack to have on the strap, I have seen people basically park bumper to bumper before taking off at speed. Also no one should be in the area while a recovery is taking place, atleast the length of the strap away from any recovery point on either vehicle. One other thing the more equipment used the more possible failure points you add.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Great comment. The amount of slack has nothing to do with the speed. Some cars can hit 15kph faster than others but 15kph is still 15kph. Agree with the distance for people. Failure points yes but if they’re in good order and correctly designed they don’t fail so it’s a moot point.
@melthebelgian.5837
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD you use the word "if" they are in good condition, if is a very important word, I have seen dumb things done during a recovery I doubt these people checked or even know how to check their gear, so "is" their gear in good condition? Is more the point.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@melthebelgian.5837 good point. It’s a tough problem we have.
@justingere1824
2 жыл бұрын
That’s what holding your hitch in when your pulling a trailer.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Very different loads and not very high
@BigSmartArmed
2 жыл бұрын
Hitch hooks are not used anymore?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
I've not seen this item.
@BigSmartArmed
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD It's just a hook that fits into a hitch receiver. It's useful to have it attached full time, and other then off road use, it's a good parking offset for those that enjoy getting right up to your rear bumper. cdn3.volusion.com/wmgve.vcyeu/v/vspfiles/photos/203074-2T.jpg
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Ok, I prefer whats called a closed loop system where only a locked hook is used.
@BigSmartArmed
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD Is there a reason why open hook is not an option?
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@BigSmartArmed Check this out factor55.com/closed-system-winching/
@jerrybriggs3233
Жыл бұрын
If you bend it good luck getting it out .
@fabienpics
Жыл бұрын
👍👍👍👍👍👍
@brentmcd12
2 жыл бұрын
yes! 📹🛻😎🤙
@brentmcd12
2 жыл бұрын
I liked the ticketed operator mention !
@bobvedder2451
2 жыл бұрын
I use a grade eight bolt holding my hitch in. It will be a hassle to remove the ball hitch and change it to a pintle type. But i change it during winter since i don't pull a trailer in the winter, but the pintle is good to attach a tow strap to.
@jackfourbee3609
2 жыл бұрын
You hit the nail on the head. It’s all in the preparation. Sort your gear out and inspect it as part of your service or pre trip inspection. Well informed Matt you are an ambassador to the four-wheel-drive community. Well done keep up the great work 👏👏👏👍
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jack
@olliehopnoodle4628
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Matt. I have been using that pin way more often that I should. I have one of those Factor 55 hitch attachments, that's what I will always use from now on for any kinetic recovery. I also agree with your suggestion to increase the attempt force a bit at a time.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
I’m pleased I could help you
@mattluszczak8095
2 жыл бұрын
I dont think i have ever used a snatch strap recovery. Granted i travell alone so would use a winch for self recovery i have come along once to a bogger prado or something. Yep used the winch. Snatch strap is bogs on sandy tracks not stuck on a beach to the sills. I think there is a limit to snatch strap and anything past a Sandy track should be the winch
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
I’m with you. A snatch is only used when I have to. I also travel alone a lot
@aaronb7990
2 жыл бұрын
Same, sand is the only place I will 'snatch' I call it bumping. Anywhere else it's tire traction or winch %100.
@PapaRug.58
Жыл бұрын
The key to keeping gear/kit in top condition is to clean and inspect it regularly especially after a hard pull or recovery keep it out of sun and elements
@Haywoodjablomie100
2 жыл бұрын
Really good video Matt. It's one thing most tutorials don't cover, they generally all show text book situations assuming everything is perfect, the vehicles have all the correct gear, they are on flat ground, perfectly aligned etc. But it doesn't always work out like that, and you often come across stuck ill prepared vehicles in non-textbook situations. So it's good to see someone tackling these scenarios. When i done road crash rescue and 4wd recovery certifications back 25 years ago we done a lot of improvisation techniques, and also had rescue and recovery hierarchy. It's invaluable information, thanks for addressing this topic.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and I’m glad I’m being part of the solution not part of the problem.
@bdd1469
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you mentioned DOUBLE SHEAR, as a steel shackle receiver has SHARP EDGES, and IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO SHEAR THE PIN THAN ANY ROPE, EVEN BEING A SINGLE SHEAR SET UP....Do as you wish. I've used recovery ropes and pins thousands of times for over 40 years, and never even bent a pin badly enough that it was difficult to remove. If something is going to shear a pin is likely going to be wedged in the hitch, or eject sideways, away from the drivers. I'd rather have a rope that weighs next to nothing flying around than a 15 lb shackle receiver on a rope coming directly towards the drivers heads.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
So you had good success with a pin only and a hitch receiver will be stronger and better but you don’t want to use it?
@bigjohn2048
2 жыл бұрын
I have also noticed most people are not using sand bags on the winch lines any more. They should be used to help keep the line low or on the ground in case it fails.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Go to my recovery playlist and see my testing on this.
@redtrail21
2 жыл бұрын
You can get away with forged hitches for tow balls. Cheaper than F55 products and they’re generally rated for more. 65USD for A forged hitch rated for 17,000 lbs towing and 2250 lb tongue weight.
@etc-and-more
2 жыл бұрын
No matter if you are the person who is recovering the vehicle or are the person in the vehicle that is getting recovered it is important to have the correct gear. As a complete newbie to this I just learned a lot. Subscribed.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Yes indeed
@harrywalker968
6 ай бұрын
join a club with trainers.. we have 3. s.a. & books, to get signed off.. cowboys with 4x4 stikers, get track closed for being rtrds & dieing..
@dirtyoff-roadaustralian5525
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Mad Matt for covering this subject as the tow bar pin hasn’t been recovered in depth of detail as you can provide The reason I asked about this in the last video was because I forgot my tow bar recovery hitch And unfortunately had a situation we had a vehicle heavily bogged and winching forward was not available at this point abs I did use the pin as my point of contact for the snatch strap but use very lightly as a drag not as much as a full snatch Thanks Matt
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Glad to help
@Beyondthebackyard-au
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, don’t go over 15km. Didn’t know that. I have always known to start slow and it generally works but when watching others I don’t think I’ve seen a single recovery where the driver hasn’t just sent it.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it happens way to often.
@brucebaxter6923
2 жыл бұрын
Haven’t seen. Yep that’s the KZitem bias, the most dramatic stuff gets seen.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@brucebaxter6923 yeah my greatest frustration.
@JB-ro3sz
2 жыл бұрын
I use a recovery hook from a semi-truck. I welded a sleeve over it as a shim to fit the 2 inch receiver tube correctly. (the weld is at the back end of the hook and only serves to hold it in place). Overkill? maybe but I believe overkill is good practice, for example, if your equipment is rated for the work you are likely to be doing use a higher rated device, it could significantly increase your margin of safety.
@Uncutclimbing
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting you say the pin bends at 9 tone (9000kg) but the recovery hitch you are promoting is only rated to 9500lbs which is only 4309kg. Its seem the simplest thing would be file a nice bevel on the inside of the receiver and use the pin. You don't mention any thing about SWL, WLL or MBS which from a rigging point of view are critical when you are talking about ratings.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
See my above comment
@Uncutclimbing
2 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure which comment you are referring to. Also the pin remains in double shear even if you are using a sling on it. Here is a simple explanation coefs.charlotte.edu/mwhelan3/files/2010/10/ICD_Single_V_Double_Shear.pdf When you use your recovery hitch and a soft shackle you add two additional failure point when you could have just put the snatch strap on the pin. Your intention seems good but some of the information you are providing isn’t correct.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
What i wrote above. Thats a good point I hadn't connected that. I'll have the discusion with Factor55. I still maintain it will be a better connection point. Note the centre section has a hole in it thats what makes it double shear. a strap is a loop. watch that part of the video again to see me explain how the hitch recivers hole supports the pin.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
From factor 55. The 2” hitch itself is rated for 9500 lbs. that’s the max load. That’s why the 2” HitchLinks, all of them have 9500 lbs machined into them. Our parts have not seen yielding in testing until just before breaking. What’s this mean? Every other item you have attached to the HitchLink and pin will fail before either of those do. Standard duty soft shackle - 39K Tow Strap- 31K KERR- 29K HitchLink 2.0 - 51K Hitch pins- 50+K The entire off-road industry functions off break strength not WLL. 3/8 Synthetic rope breaks between 18-22K so a 5:1 means it’s WLL is only 4.4K on a 12K winch? It’s about quality of materials and validation through testing.
@Uncutclimbing
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD Thanks for the clarification. So the MBS of the hitch is 4039kg (9500lbs). My soft shackle MBS is 16000kg and my snatch strap is 11000kg. Looking at these numbers the factory 55 hitch is by far the weakest link and it adds an additional failure point. Please don’t think I’m trolling, I’m just observing the info you are providing and doing the maths.
@Robert-cu9bm
2 жыл бұрын
I disagree on the tight radius point. Those pins are the same diameter as a soft shackle, bow shackle, equaliser strap or even a recovery hook. So if that's going to damage your rope so is every attachment you use. Then with snatch straps they are made with a tight radius from factory, which is why they can be rolled up
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
The pin is 16mm a 4.75t shackle is 19mm the ratio required to maintain full strength is 1:1.
@Robert-cu9bm
2 жыл бұрын
@@MadMatt4WD I'll concede on the shackle. But your point is still incorrect on the radius. In both your video you show and say connect to a soft shackle. The soft shackles shown are factor55 and your website states their diameter. 7/16 and 3/8. Both are well below the 16mm diameter pin size.
@MadMatt4WD
2 жыл бұрын
@@Robert-cu9bm I’ve had the guys at Factor55 watch this video and verify it for accuracy so maybe shoot than an email.
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