Heading to the hardware store to duplicate what you have shown here. Excellent idea. I am using expanded metal instead of honeycomb, so some slight mods may be necessary. This is simply better than wasting $200+ USD on a powered Z table.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Glad you’re gonna give it a go mate. Its a simple design but works well. Expanded sheet metal is a great choice
@Patricksworkshop
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Joe. Nice upgrade bud.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Patrick! 😊
@geminiman2831
Жыл бұрын
Can I use peg board for co2 laser bed? But the issue it has more area and less holes! So laser will touch the bed more often! Will that be an issue?
@LaLondeThom
5 жыл бұрын
This is brilliant. I can't tell you how many videos I've watched on bed leveling and this is the first one that made any sense.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Thom! Glad you’ve found it helpful. I often think simple is best haha
@jakematic
5 жыл бұрын
That is a clever idea the way the bolts line up to the surface to set the height. Even if you couldn't get the perfect length you'd just need longer ones and cut them down. Going to stash this idea away - am sure it will be handy down the line.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Its a simple one but I definitely think keeping it simple is ideal for this application. Can definitely cut down longer bolts or maybe add spacer pieces to the bottom for the shorter bolts to sit on. Lots of possibilities 😊
@FrisnoB
5 жыл бұрын
Second that. The benefits of being able to align things outside the cutter with nothing more than eyes or a straight bit is genius.
@andyr6913
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, could you advise where you got the honeycomb material for the bed please?. thanks 👍
@AverageJoesJoinery
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Andy, this is what I used mate - www.easycomposites.co.uk/19mm-aluminium-honeycomb
@ashfox2012
2 жыл бұрын
Top idea pal thank you
@sitgesvillaapartmentneilsc7924
4 жыл бұрын
50.8mm from the bottom of the laser head to the original bed.
@jmcbc1963
5 жыл бұрын
You are a genius! Thank you so much for sharing. My machine arrives on Wed. you have no idea how much you've helped me. Have a good one! :)
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Julie! Really glad you found it helpful 😊 its a very simple concept but its been working great for me. Dont have to think just make sure the screws are level and done haha just how I like it
@GeekBuildersNet
4 жыл бұрын
This was really helpful. Great advice
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! Glad you found it helpful 😊
@albertovenuti1400
3 ай бұрын
I know is an old video but, where did you get the honeycomb material from?
@Nation1A1List
5 жыл бұрын
Would you mind sharing a link for where to buy the honeycomb mesh?
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Here is the stuff I got mate :) www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/core-materials/aluminium-honeycomb/19mm-aluminium-honeycomb.html
@cbaymac
3 жыл бұрын
Perfect. Thank you.
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
Cheers Gordon! 😊
@clyrogrumper
Жыл бұрын
I just bought one of these to manufacture silicone foam gaskets that are a total pig to make with a graphtec knife plotter. I will be making one of your height adjuster beds with the honeycomb mesh on it. Your mesh looks ideal for putting a bit of plywood on it. But the silicone foam I am using is about 3mm thick and very flexible so its going to not lie nice and flat on the mesh. Are you aware if I can get hold of a finer honeycomb mesh ? Cheers for a very clear video.
@IronMan-yg4qw
3 жыл бұрын
brilliant! if you could put a knob on the top then you wouldnt have to take out the bed to adjust it.
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
A friend of mine has actually sent me some 3D painted bits to have a go at making a new bed soon 🤞
@IronMan-yg4qw
3 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery great!
@FrisnoB
5 жыл бұрын
I would go with pop rivets in the corners, to avoid glue failures. There are also rivets with threaded insides (Nutserts?).
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
I’ll have to check those out! Didnt know they had threaded variants
@prototypeeight9503
3 жыл бұрын
PERFECT! Thank you for sharing. I'm getting the K40 for Christmas (wife confirms the yes!) - and I want to be able to raise/lower as needed. You made it simple!
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you found it helpful mate! Enjoy the K40, its a great bit of kit 😁
@rickmccaskill7888
4 жыл бұрын
Where did you get the honeycomb material? Thank you
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
This is where I got it from mate, www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/core-materials/aluminium-honeycomb/19mm-aluminium-honeycomb.html
@walterhynson2898
4 жыл бұрын
Now that is how to do a video.
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Walter! 😊
@Checkitfirst
5 жыл бұрын
I was wondering what I was gonna do and now I do. Thank you for your help. Peace
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Glad you found it helpful 😊
@rangerdoc1029
5 жыл бұрын
I bought an air assist nozzle off ebay that also is adjustable for focus. Much easier to raise or lower the nozzle than the entire bed. I'm going to use your bed design, it'll be adjustable for levelling & coarse adjustment. Then use the nozzle for fine adjustment.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
As far as I know the air nozzle doesnt focus does it?
@rangerdoc1029
5 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery The stock one doesn't. But this one does: search "K series laser head 5030" on ebay.
@ATN007
5 жыл бұрын
2 things :) First of, where did You buy the honey comb sheet? :) Second.. a better bed to make, that makes it MUCH easier to adjust... Take a scissor lift (See link) www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Laboratory-Lifting-Platform-Lift-Tool-Scissor-Rack-Silver-Stainless-Steel/264314699660?hash=item3d8a623f8c:g:ENoAAOSwupBc0nUo rivet or bolt to bottom, extend the adjusting screw out through the laser chassi in the front (do require some drilling:) put honeycomb table on top of the lift. (You can make a distance piece to hold between laserhead and material to know the focal point) You can also use 2 lifts, one on right and one on left side so in case You have something (material) that are angeled you can adjust the two sides differently to level Your work piece... This mod works very well :)
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! Glad you liked the design 😊 I did have a look at some scissor lifts but didnt want to give up the depth they would take up. Here is where I bought the honeycomb from: www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/core-materials/aluminium-honeycomb/19mm-aluminium-honeycomb.html
@SMee67
5 жыл бұрын
Nice simple fix, good on ya and thanks for sharing, mate 👍
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Bill! Glad you liked it 😊
@woogaloo
3 жыл бұрын
I was thinking of cutting off part of the exhaust duct and then figuring out how to make a bed to lower and raise for my cutting boards, but this is so much easier! It's a very simple design and is pretty genius just to always know "at the top of the bolt". Thank you for sharing!
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! Really glad you liked it. I often think simple is best haha
@JamesW81
Жыл бұрын
@Matthew Wolfe I completely removed my exhaust duct by unscrewing it from the back. Saves having any sharp/jagged parts and I've found that the extraction is still works fine.
@Thesidingsworkshop
5 жыл бұрын
Simple but brilliant very well thought out well done mate
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! 😊
@ReelSpider
2 жыл бұрын
You used 100% the right epoxy, perfect for the job. If you don't abrade the surface it just isn't going to work. It's like trying to stick an egg to a Teflon pan. The aluminium is just too slick and the epoxy just peels off. Especially if it gets a little warm, like from a drill.
@ReelSpider
2 жыл бұрын
lock 2 nuts at the top of the legs, and you can use an electric screwdriver with a nut driver head to set the height. (edit-add) reinforce those threads in the aluminium if your going to do the electric screwdriver thing...
@LeightonGill
5 жыл бұрын
The link you provided says the product is unavailable :(
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Ahh typical! 😕 There are a lot of these machines that are all very similar. Id sooner leave the link to the particular one I bought though because Ive had a good experience with it
@curiousaardvark7095
5 жыл бұрын
great idea to use until I can get round to making a motorised bed. Cheers. I'll actually 3d print corners and embed nuts in those rather than cut a thread. You could also have superglued nuts below the holes. But simple and effective idea :-) Okay - did you cut the bolts down to the correct size ? An 80mm bolt is 80mm of thread PLUS the depth of the bolt head. In my case with 10 mm hex bolts - it's an extra 7mm.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
I looked at the motorised beds but was put off by the price haha also wanted to maximise the depth I could use. The 80mm bolts including the head falls about bang on where my focal length is. I bought 75mm and 85mm to see which was closest but 80 was the sweet spot.
@muhammedali-rh1kv
4 жыл бұрын
Very clever. Thanks for sharing the missteps. That's helpful. How much work space did you gain from the modification?
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Muhammed! Since making this new bed Ive been able to take advantage of the full cutting area where as before I could use a quarter of it in the clamp
@dalemoskalyk1227
5 жыл бұрын
That's good thinking bud. There was a great loss today in the entertainment world. The man who wrote the song "Hokey Pokey" died. What was really horrible is that they had trouble keeping the body in the casket. They'd put his left leg in and.. .well, you know the rest
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Dale! Lmao 🙈😂😂😂
@msapielak
3 жыл бұрын
Where did you get this honeycomb sheet?
@ZacJones
5 жыл бұрын
Great video, I really want to pick up a laser engraver one day
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! Its opened up a lot of possibilities having the engraver 👌
@palaminozakaria6554
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for this
@JamsterJules
4 жыл бұрын
That's a brilliant idea. I've just got the same machine. What coolant are you using?
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Julien! I’m just using deoinised water
@-slemantech6136
5 жыл бұрын
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
👍😊
@rdaubney
5 жыл бұрын
Bloody brilliant! This is one of those forehead-slappingly simple 'why didn't I think of that! The bloody bolts- of course! *slap* Nice one!
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Bob! I think the simple solutions are always best haha
@alexecheverria
4 жыл бұрын
Hello! I was not able to find the aluminium webcomb. Can you please send me a link to it? Thanks!
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
This is where I got it from mate www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/core-materials/aluminium-honeycomb/19mm-aluminium-honeycomb-10mm.html
@Edubarca46
5 жыл бұрын
Hello. I have being trying to guess the exact length of the bolts. Unfortunately, your explanation is not very clear. You say that the distance between the bottom of the machine to the focus point is 85 mm on the top part of the bed included with the machine including the clamp). Then why do you advice to use 80 mm bolts? I thought that the top of the bolts would coincide with the focal distance from the lens to the material which is 50.8mm but with 80mm bolts and actual measure being 85, I just don't get it. I don't want to appear dumb but I just don't understand it. I appreciate a little more clear explanation here.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Eduardo, sorry if my explanation wasnt clear. I advise using 80mm bolts because the heads of the bolts arent included in their stated measurement. So 80mm long bolts measure roughly 85mm including the head of the bolt. I opted to measure my focal point from the base of the machine upwards rather than from the lens downwards. This way, I can be sure if the material I want engrave is flush with the bolts then it is in focus. You will need to check your own focal point as it may differ from mine
@Edubarca46
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much Joe for your explanation. Now I find very clear. I am making a wooden frame and instead of the honeycomb, I am installing several 1mm steel wire lengths separated more or less one inch between them. Finally, The focus measurement is from the base of the machine to the border of the tube that hols the lens or to the actual lens position. As you know, the lens is slightly upward inside the tube that holds it. Again thanks and I will let you know my final results. EDUARDO
@mrfoameruk
5 жыл бұрын
Ive heard its really hard to weld aluminium and you need to be good at welding to do it right. I guess you could have used rivets as that's cheap and easily done. This webpage k40laser.se/diy-how-to/setting-the-proper-focus-in-your-k40/ was quite helpful and I like the ramp test video at the bottom
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Could have used rivets for sure! I’ll have to get a rivet gun. I’ll have to check out that site! Thank you 😊
@tonyrichmond9428
3 жыл бұрын
Yo, using the bolts to measure the focal point is a great idea. Thanks for the video, even a year later.
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Tony! I think the simple ones are always best haha
@davejones8021
5 жыл бұрын
My first thought was, "Those bolts take up too much bed room". Then you showed how the top of the bolts are equal to the focal link of the laser and my thoughts changed to "Simple yet genius". Good job man!
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Dave! I just wanted to keep it as simple as possible. I dont even have to think when setting the focal length. Just make sure all 4 bolts are flush and its good to go
@fitonline4549
4 жыл бұрын
if you tap the holes a bit bigger and put springs on the bolts , you can use butterfly nuts to lower and raise the bed
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thats a great idea! I’ll have to give it a go on the next revision haha
@michalm6
5 жыл бұрын
Hey, nice vid ! I want to buy one for myself and j have questions for you, maybe you can help me a little bit. What is a maximum engraving size with this bed ? What software was included with machine ? Does it work with k40 whisperer ?
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Michal! It can engrave to the size of an A4 sheet of paper. The software it came with was awful. It was a version corel draw. I use mine with K40 Whisperer and it does everything I want
@bobbyboy75uk
4 жыл бұрын
Explained perfectly. Great idea. Thanks for sharing your project. 👍
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! Glad you found it helpful 😊
@tonyovenden7390
3 жыл бұрын
Great idea! I’ve just made mine using rivnuts in the corners. No gluing, welding, or pop rivets. Rivnuts are strong and give perfect threads for the bolts
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
Hmm I’ll have to have a look at those. Metalwork is still alien to me haha
@affiqikhwan9036
5 жыл бұрын
I have the slightly different model (k3020). The nozzle itself can be lower and raised. The bed's height can also easily be adjusted. But the price of the machine here(malaysia) is around 1000usd 😔.
@affiqikhwan9036
5 жыл бұрын
Also, i would strongly suggest adding air assist to your machine. It makes huge different when cutting acrylic and rubber.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
I wish the head height on mine was adjustable! Im hoping in the future I can upgrade to a larger machine though. I do plan to add air assist soon
@TheBroadcastNinja
4 жыл бұрын
Thumbs up and subscribed! great video !
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! Glad you liked it 😊
@jutetwine4482
4 жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you for sharing. Is it difficult to take out the original bed?
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks! The original bed is pretty easy to remove. There are some set screws holding it in place but thats all
@TheJaseGill
3 жыл бұрын
Mate that is brilliant. Sounds like you orignally come from my neck of the woods too. The simplest ideas are always the best. I'm nicking it ;)
@AverageJoesJoinery
3 жыл бұрын
Cheers Jason! Simple is definitely best haha I’m Wolverhampton based 🐺 haha
@TheJaseGill
3 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery Definitely simple is best. I'm originally from Coseley just down the road :)
@iq0099
5 жыл бұрын
Slot the 4 bolts and use a normal screwdriver to lower / raise the bolts
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thats a great idea! Thanks
@Create2make
5 жыл бұрын
That’s a great idea, looks ok 👍. Looks sturdy enough for its function
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul! 😊
@eliblessed
4 жыл бұрын
Alluminum brazing is SUPER easy!
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
I’ve bever done it before. Worried I’d mess it up haha
@christofix
5 жыл бұрын
this is a very interesting machine, i hope you make some more videos of it! I checked out the link in your discription but it says Currently unavailable
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
I’ll definitely be making more videos around the laser. It was available before the video went live 😕 there are a lot of similar models of the K40 laser. Ive had a good experience with mine so Id sooner link to that particular one. Hopefully they get them back in stock soon
@christofix
5 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery thank you so much for your awnser! i will save that link. I'm looking forward to see more videos of this laser! Greetings Christofix
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I might get in touch with the seller to see when they expect to have them back in stock
@christofix
5 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery thanks man! i will check out the link from time to time!
@jondriver7590
4 жыл бұрын
love the 85mm bolts mate. making wooden coffee boxes in Colombia
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jon!
@jigsey.
5 жыл бұрын
Great idea Joe.. I'm new to laser engravers I've started off with the eleksmaker A3 pro... Very interested in the k40 how it performs ercy
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! So far so good with this laser. Im still learning with it though
@louiseharvey2142
4 жыл бұрын
Do you sell this item? I couldn't make one myself
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
I dont sell them unfortunately. Its very rough and ready haha
@Kotdt1
5 жыл бұрын
Nice video and the idea is good just need a lot more thinking of how to do it what you came up with is Ok for a start
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Danny! It will definitely see me through for now 😊
@duster.
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Joe, I have the same laser but also a 3000mw desktop laser by KKMoon. I made a similar platform for it so that I could place larger items under the beam. I use that for engraving my maker's mark onto my woodturning etc. I hadn't even considered doing it for my 40W laser but I'll be on the case soon. i.imgur.com/Vaql85B.jpg i.imgur.com/tz6tZc6.jpg I engraved this on the little laser as well i.imgur.com/vpi2hUx.jpg a piece of oak newell post with a tealight holder mounted in the top. Keep up the good work.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Hi Bob! Great idea with the base and love the engravings 👌 an adjustable bed has helped me a ton with the 40W laser. I hope one day I can have a large industrial laser but thats a long way off haha
@duster.
5 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery Thanks for the kind words Joe.
@randomname9992
5 жыл бұрын
Nice idea, not seen it done that way before. I am glad my laser has a motorised z axis, saves so much hassle.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Wish mine had a motorised z axis haha might be able to upgrade one day
@jimbenge9649
5 жыл бұрын
I wondered where you where going at first but this is really clever ans simple to use.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Glad it turned out useful in the end haha Thanks Jim! 😊
@brianfoster1504
5 жыл бұрын
Well done. Easy to make with readily accessible parts.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Brian! 😊
@mattcred
5 жыл бұрын
Setting the focal point using the top of the bolts is genius. I can just imagine it being a right pain trying to measure it each time!
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
It makes it really simple now. No need to measure so thats always a good thing haha
@hunterschoonover5616
4 жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Hunter! 😊
@chriswar9027
4 жыл бұрын
Great idea,what size did you cut the aluminium angle. TY
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris! I cut them to slightly larger than A4 dimension. So roughly 310mm for the long pieces and 220mm for the shorter pieces
@chriswar9027
4 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery thanks👍🏻 my new project
@chrisbearden1331
5 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Thank you for this great idea!
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris! 😊
@linzero3664
2 жыл бұрын
Like your calibration method with top of screw matching top of material. Simply elegant solution!
@phunkissartisticcreations2316
5 жыл бұрын
Very informative video, and a great mod! Thanks for sharing!
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate! 😊
@AndyCPugh
5 жыл бұрын
I hope you're going to do more videos relating to this. Interesting!!
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Ive got a large project planned for a storage unit for it so hopefully it wont be too long before I can get that done haha
@zebadeeeeeeee
4 жыл бұрын
What size is the bed 200mm x 300mm? or other? thanks m8
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
The bed is slightly bigger than an A4 sheet of paper so roughly 310mm x 220mm. I just made it as big as would fit in my laser machine haha
@zebadeeeeeeee
4 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery nice one for the reply! I just got my laser working on the upgrades and mods. Planning on doing something similar but using a Lab Jack to adjust the hight.
@cooper7623
11 ай бұрын
This is fantastic. I do appreciate the knowledge. There is a lot to learn when it comes to the K40. I have learned a lot of tip and tricks from so many in this community. I have to say your the first one I have seen to address the bed leveling and focused beam issue. This is one of my problems that I can now check off my list. Thank you!
@neilross6868
4 жыл бұрын
NICE TO HEAR A FAMILIAR ACCENT :)
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Its the best aye it! 😂
@edwardcray2343
5 жыл бұрын
Great video, would love to see some sort of review or more details of the laser! very keen to get one myself
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Edward! I dont have enough experience to be able to review the laser at this point but I’ll definitely be using it in future projects and Ive got some other upgrades planned 😊
@BaconSniffer578
5 жыл бұрын
Show us more of the stuff you’ve been making with it.
@AverageJoesJoinery
5 жыл бұрын
Ive got a project I’ve been working using the laser. Hopefully I’ll be able to get it released soon
@marylynch8929
4 жыл бұрын
Finally, a solution I just might be able to do. Thank you
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Mary! Give it a go. Its been working great for me 😊
@marylynch8929
4 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery Made the bed today and messed it up LOL The glue stuck in some places, not others! But we cobbled it together and it's excellent. I was able to go from 3mm deal to 30.5 and 40mm wooden blocks with ease. Thank you.
@hunterpruett5455
4 жыл бұрын
Great design! I did something similar with a belt and a knob so it can be adjusted while inside the machine. Unfortunately, the bed isn't stable and I get wavy lines, everywhere. Do you have this same issue?
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
Thats a great idea! Be much more convenient thats for sure haha I haven’t had stability issues. With each bolt/leg able to adjust independently I can make sure its sitting level in the machine. It may be worth trying a slower speed to reduce shaking perhaps?
@hunterpruett5455
4 жыл бұрын
@@AverageJoesJoinery I might try a lower speed, however, it's only running at 35mm/s, doesn't seem bad at all.
@AverageJoesJoinery
4 жыл бұрын
That is slow. I typically cut at 5mm/s but engrave/etch at 150/200mm/s
@hunterpruett5455
4 жыл бұрын
Average Joe's Joinery yeah, I think I’ll stabilize it with some type of screw from the sides of the machine
Пікірлер: 175