I think the boss drops are half of the problem, the other half being bots.
@wolf-en8xd
Жыл бұрын
I mean, the bots farm bosses now.
@Flowers_Die
Жыл бұрын
The bots are like 80% of the problem
@idliketorant9147
Жыл бұрын
I’ve been playing this game since 2001 in classic and there where way more bots back in 2004 than now and they didn’t have near the impact item resource drops from bosses have. Back then I could make 20m+ a day runecrafting nature runes now it’s not even close to that.
@fowlerfreak7420
Жыл бұрын
Bots have always existed and they always will. Bots haven't magically made resources lower in value on their own. Yews, Magics, Iron Ores, Coal, Lobsters, Sharks, all were viable money making methods even with bots for decades. Ironmen signed up for a "tough" game mode, and then complained that it was too hard. A lot of the new content added to the game is specifically designed around ironman accessibility, which defeats the entire purpose of the game mode. Paired with lazy reward incentives from bosses, all accounts engaging in new bosses (including bots) are bringing too many of these resources into the game. TLDR; if you really want to get to the root of the problem, it's the mindset that ironman should be a more accessible game mode, rather than prohibitive. All attempts to make their time "easier" have led us to where we are today.
@FireomanGaming
Жыл бұрын
the question of the ages. IMO: half of the gear bosses drops should be untradeable, ge should only offer high value items, or large quantities of low value items. ( 50k+ of the item, if you want 5k, go buy 50k or buy from a player). Boss drop tables should have unique drops increased in rate, and base loot decreased to 20-50% lower than the gathering/skilling method of obtaining.
@created1711
10 ай бұрын
You are the first person I’ve ever heard to have a take about the grand exchange like this and I fully agree with you I’ve been telling my friends for years if I could remove anything from the game it would be the grand exchange
@colbr06
Жыл бұрын
You also have people like Mat K saying that bots are good for the economy because nobody would gather these resources… I used to spin flax for hours to make money and fish a ton as well. PvM loot tables and botting crashes the market for everything.
@ImGearsBeast
Жыл бұрын
Before I could spin flax I picked it, now it’s 1 gp ea because it drops by the thousands noted now
@Papaconstantopoulos
Жыл бұрын
I watched that video and that was the absolute most L take from a Jagex employee I'd ever heard. Bots are absolutely NOT NECESSARY or healthy at all to run the game economy, they literally JUST devalue skilling that's it.
@Friskydingle
Жыл бұрын
I miss the days back in like 2006 when you went to varrock west bank and spammed "Green: Wave: S E L L I N G L O B B I E S 200 E A C H" -FE Solo Cup on osrs
@bigglock5478
Жыл бұрын
Me too
@anthonycantone3750
Жыл бұрын
As an Ironman I agree with your point that boss drops contain too many skilling supplies. Part of the fun (to me) of being an Ironman is going and gathering those items via skilling.
@ciot111
Жыл бұрын
same for me. im a ironman aswell and i think aswell that bosses drop way to manny supplies...
@drewjumper5317
Жыл бұрын
I'd have to agree with the exception of those torstol seeds
@RareAngelz
Жыл бұрын
Ironmen may be part of it, but I would actually say it's just catering to the pvm community via polls regardless of mode. If you're an ironman, you're more likely to be okay with skilling because, well, you know you have to to an extent much greater than a main. Since I became an iron, I have had to grind skill resources more than ever, and I like that. Bosses get polled and nobody wants to do a boss if it isn't profitable..but an ironman will do an un unprofitable boss if they need an important item. A main will just make money and buy it if they don't care about the logs. We've seen this path in every other MMO. The majority of players are pvm focused, hence slayer being a fan favorite, and it pushes skills out slowly since the pvm community would rather not be required to skill as much. It happened in WoW, it's happening here.
@carrottop113
Жыл бұрын
A few Ironman complained on Reddit and changed the whole game to make it easier for themselves, meanwhile the masses of normal players don’t even know what anything is happening
@sy9vk
Жыл бұрын
Bosses could drop some type of charm item that gives extra resources when you actually go out to train the skill. So instead of getting 50 noted magic logs you would get 50 charges on this item that gave you double magic logs. It can be sold on the grand exchange if you don't have the level or just want to take the money instantly. You have to go out and do the skill and get the woodcutting level. ....Basically a bloodshard for other resources.
@Darkspinesdestroyer
Жыл бұрын
spirit flake shards do this for fishing, I agree they should have more of this type of stuff in the game.
@latvian14
Жыл бұрын
Rs3 tried to do that few years ago and it flopped pretty much. You don't have to add anything. If boss is 500k gp/h then nobody will do it, hence the uniques will rise in price since the supply is much lower than demand and it will balance it out. Good comparison is Gwd drops vs zulrah. If blowpipe cost 20m each, you think nobody would buy it? Ofc they would, and the gp/h from zulrah wouldn't change much.
@taylorzahayko9903
Жыл бұрын
Exactly what rs3 did with mining drops , you don’t get ore you get things that give you double the ore when you mine with an amount of charges
@rytr0nious
Жыл бұрын
have you ever tried cutting magics? The only useful place to do so is in the wc guild and you get like 50 logs/hr its terrible. I think if they ever do something like this they should rebalance the level requirements and gathering rates.
@mjohnson9591
Жыл бұрын
@@rytr0niousu should try forestry its a lot different for woodcutting now. Seers village is bis for magic cutting now
@TacetTheTerror
Жыл бұрын
Personally been playing skillers for nearly 20 years now, everything from level 3 skillers, defense pure skillers, 10 hp accounts, and similar builds. When I came back to OSRS earlier this year after several years away I ended up starting a HCIM because it seems like everything in the game was being targeted towards ironmen. I haven't even bonded up my maxed defense pure skiller as afk skilling makes less gp than the alchables from slayer/bossing on an iron even without access to the grand exchange. My biggest issue with where skilling is right now is nearly 0 BIS come fully sourced from skilling. 99% of them are locked behind slayer and pvm. Forestry's bark and leaves currency, while still not fully implemented at the moment, is a great example of how they could potentially fix every skill. Add a currency type for nearly every node type in the game for every skill and a generic one that can be earned for any activity in the skill, make ALL of it untradeable, then lock relevant best in slot equipment and temporary buffs behind these currencies. For example, if the same was done to mining, something like best in slot tank armor comparable to Justiciar could be earned after 100s of hours, new weapons that fills the gap between 60 and BIS could be added for 10s of hours of grind. The node specific drops could turn basic metal equipment into higher tiers, such as adamant mining supplying a resource to fortify adamant armor into degradable tier 60, rune doing rune to tier 80, and multiple different rocks throughout the game doing things like granite to tier 75, dragon to tier 90, 3rd age to tier 95. They would be rarely used as would require hours of mining to charge it for even an hour and would have no unique effects making them weaker than armors with strength bonus and passives, but it would give skilling a purpose again without overstepping into other content. My main concern with the community at large is how people reacted when the not yet released tea system for forestry was proposed. It essentially would have released potion-like effects that would have helped with pvm and skilling activities alike, but because it was locked behind skilling and not PvM it had gigantic knockback. For example, something like Saturated Heart buff would have never passed a poll if the essence to buff it was sourced from runecrafting skilling rather than from a PvM boss. People only hate it when the buff if from skilling and will yes it for nearly anything that sources it from PvM.
@LegitMeow
Жыл бұрын
Profitable skilling: thieving elves, making divine potions, runecrafting blood/soul/wrath, hallowed sepulchre, black chins, crafting birdhouses.
@MtnDewVoltage456
Жыл бұрын
You can't make skilling profitable if a huge percent of the old-school players online are bots. The truth is if they got rid of all bots for good a lot of people would be shocked how little amount of people would be online playing.
@JohnSmithIlIlIlIl
Жыл бұрын
Legit, my proudest achievement in OSRS was getting a whip and full barrows gear on my HCIM. After that I maxed my main account and quit.
@alexweaver3929
Жыл бұрын
I think you'll find that most irons don't want these resource boss drops. Devalues for us too
@jonnyblair3993
Жыл бұрын
As an Iron myself, i think its a bit unfair to blame the gamemode for the problem. Now blaming the lazy ironmen who dont actually want to work to get the stuff they need, who complain about how hard it is, absolutely. I made my ironman account to force myself to actually play the game. Way back in the day before osrs was even created, all I ever did was sit at the GE and try to make money from flipping. I stopped playing for about 8 years and when i came back RS3 was so different so i came over to OSRS, but found myself right back in the same trap i was in before. I dont get to play all that much, but atleast my time is spent playing the game now instead of bank standing.
@Sammysapphira
Жыл бұрын
The original incarnation of ironman that Faux created pre-zulrah was amazing. It was challenging, the game wasn't designed around it, and that was the point. You had to go out and mine all your own supplies, or pick all your own herbs, etc. As time has gone on, ironmen are just glorified regular accounts. It's just a status symbol they use to act superior to a regular account despite barely being more difficult. Any time content releases that is difficult for ironmen to complete, they scream SO loud about it until it gets changed.
@DsolAX
Жыл бұрын
ngl, I dont think this game would exist anymore without Ironman mode. It saved that game because it makes the early and mid game like it was back in the early 2000's. The resource drops dont come into play till late game for most normal players, so this is yet again a hlc issue, not a normal player issue
@MrTravify
Жыл бұрын
I almost feel like you contradicted yourself at the end. You said you prefer doing things through skilling and slayer, but you also make your money however you want to make it. Some people choose to go the bossing route because that is what is fun for them, others choose skilling and slayer because that is fun for them. Also I really disagree with the whole notion of ironmen have these drops from bosses to make the game easier for them. I play the ironman mode, seeds from thieving, ores from mlm, I chop my own logs, fish my own food, use my own resources I gather. I haven't done any super high level bossing, but I feel like the resources I've gained have come from actually gathering and almost 0 PvM. I like some of your points but I disagree with ironman mode having any effect on the drops or economy entirely.
@MrTravify
Жыл бұрын
Also the thing about torstol seeds, I think you're more upset at the quantity than the fact they're actually dropped... Because aside from doing slayer or something, how else do you even get seeds? They're not sold from stores, they're not gotten any other way aside from farming contracts and if that's you're only way of getting seeds, terrible idea. If you make skilling more profitable, you making bossing even MORE profitable. Killing a boss SHOULD give you more money than spending 15 minutes clicking to clean herbs lmao.
@rezst
Жыл бұрын
He did. Complaining that your own way of playing is not feasible anymore but at the same time saying ironman gamemode does not belong in runescape is some next level irony
@mandrue73
Жыл бұрын
I think it would be healthy for the game if all noted drops were removed from pvm, and replaced with skilling amplifiers similar to spirit flakes which doubles or even triples resources from skilling when used. Additional items like the giant egg sac and scaly blue dragonhide that fit thematically could be added too 👍
@gam1ngfr3ak
Жыл бұрын
That is actually a really good idea
@osrsmouse3166
Жыл бұрын
Awesome idea
@TUCK2SHARP
Жыл бұрын
Jagex adds resource drops to bosses for ironmen. Bots and main accounts sell the resources run up a tab and it leaves the resource skillers mad because they’re broke. That’s pretty much the gist of it.
@malachishaner690
Жыл бұрын
Skilling is dead, but we still need to train alot of the skills quite far in order to do most of the things that aren't dead. That's a real major problem.
@dannywaider
Жыл бұрын
This is why the Ironman or main f2p accounts are so enticing. No matter the updates you get very little if any resource drops, you can “buy” on a main account in f2p, but you still have to skill or pvm to make the money to do it all. So, I agree that (for members) that bosses, monsters, and bots makes skilling almost dead. F2p, on the other hand, is still thriving when it comes to making money and the grind in osrs
@wattuhat
Жыл бұрын
Im an ironman and i very much agree with you. The headless recource loots from the ''modern bosses'' is ridicculus. I personally loved the design of the old GWD bosses which drop their uniques and only little bit of this and that. Even if my opinion goes against the ''majority logic'' that id get less recources, it would make skilling more enjoyable (or worth doing) as you said.
@markjacobs3232
Жыл бұрын
I killed version once on my iron and got 100 ranarrs. Absolute shock.
@misterbensy6725
11 ай бұрын
Overall, I enjoyed the video and mostly agree with your points. However, I think that we need to take a look at resources that aren't dropped by bosses/monsters. Look at things like sharks, karambwans, anglerfish, redwood logs, molten glass/buckets of sand/seaweed. All of these are minimally dropped by bosses if at all and their prices have been crashing harder than ever before. Raw sharks just dipped below 300 gp, karambwans are at 450, redwoods are at 500. These are not low because of PVM, this is entirely a bot problem. People do not want to pay lots for these resources, and they also do not want to grind them. These are mostly low-exp, low profit methods (or afk). I play as an ironman mostly and gather all of these myself, but looking at the price I realize it is entirely because of bots, not PVM or bosses.
@EF_DadLeftMe
Жыл бұрын
Can’t agree more! RuneScape felt more alive prior to GE however that’s kinda what held back osrs at the same time. I recall GE getting voted in and it changed the will to play for many but at a huge cost of integrating and hours spent bargaining
@maniacmatt7340
Жыл бұрын
PVM is overpowered atm. we were all worried about power creep, we never considered the pvm creep! I agree, the bosses have made skilling pretty much pointless outside of personal gratification.
@Aviex99
Жыл бұрын
To be fair, skilling is a simple as "click tree", "click rock", "click npc to pickpocket", unless you just want bosses dropping straight up raw gp then nobody would bother bossing if they were way more challenging to do with 0 reward. Good luck convincing people to do phantom muspah if it's drop rates were similar to gwd.
@maniacmatt7340
Жыл бұрын
i agree with point 2, we need more ways to use resources.
@SamoIsKing
Жыл бұрын
I dont have a problem with getting seeds from PvM because theres only a few other ways of getting seeds, but bosses shouldnt drop skilling mats.
@benswaim6418
Жыл бұрын
i never found the IM or UIM modes interesting to play personally but the GIM COUGHT MY EYE unfortanley my group is inactive at the moment so im basically a reg iron
@Erikkert
Жыл бұрын
I’m an iron with 2400+ ehb. I can’t remember what the last time was that I’ve I had to actively had to gather for supplies to fund for my pvming. Occasional herb/bhouse run, like one every time I logged in, pick some white berries maybe, and that’s it. Ofcourse you have to make the pots, but you can just make them while waiting for your teammates to be ready.
@gamingguru2k6
6 ай бұрын
Sailing may end up like a resource sink the same way construction is.
@Dan17177
Жыл бұрын
Bots are one that I agree with in the comments and the other is we need new skills that uses the material that we have in a different way as well as what you said about bosses dropping all the stuff that people have to grind.
@ToastyCourier
Жыл бұрын
I 100% agree with your Grand Exchange take. It changed the culture of Gielinor's landscape. Like there is one central place for trading AND banking! These two should not be in one place. The middle ground I would like is a trading district that is a town away from a bank. That way you have to "carry" your items over to the auction or what have you. I ain't no designer, I'm just a player. In the early history of OSRS, boss drops weren't sought for their resources, but for their unique drops alone. Yeah, it sucked going dry, but that was part of the experience of bossing. I guess people didn't like being unlucky and bothered the mods until changes were made relieve some of that. The resource economy was rich because bossing was a great burner for demand.
@SlapAPear
Жыл бұрын
BTW, most irons don't like the resource drops on bosses that we have, they're for the average player that cries about harvesting anything, so Jagex answered.
@Yomamahouse6996
Жыл бұрын
Warrd I remember going to a world 1-3 to buy my resources and sell my items those were the golden days of osrs
@blindgaming3615
Жыл бұрын
Interesting how he blames ironmen for killing skilling and not the hundreds of bots doing simple and menial skilling bringing copious amounts of said resources into the game.
@kolrengenify
Жыл бұрын
Bots have been a persistent issue from way before skilling became pointless.. Bots are definitely not helping the issue, but the thing that has changed the most are boss drop tables (presumably to cater to IM mode).
@fakhriasyraf1
Жыл бұрын
That just made it worse bcs now bots can farm zulrah for even more resources
@kolrengenify
Жыл бұрын
@@fakhriasyraf1 - Sure, bots are not great and a definite problem. However, I still believe you are messing up the chain of causality, as bots have been with the game, even when skilling was "king" for moneymaking..
@MrCjjuengst
Жыл бұрын
@@kolrengenify bots benefit from the drop tables that are made to make irons get stuff easier. Now the bots boss instead of skill
@kolrengenify
Жыл бұрын
@@MrCjjuengst - Absolutely! I don't see how your input changes anything i've already said though.
@TheSlammerFishing
Жыл бұрын
I disagree with the drop tables argument from bosses. From my understanding many of these bosses and the drop tables were in the game before the ironman mode. The reall issue in the game at the moment are the bot farms that are killing those bosses. The resource drops are a good thing in the long run but how they enter the game in mass from these bot farms just kills the market and makes skilling unprofitable.
@DanielCruz-pt8ff
Жыл бұрын
Bots are overwhelming the game. This is the reason everything has dropped.
@Noxlion28
Жыл бұрын
Iron man mode released in 2014. Every PvM release since then has been littered with resource drops. There were not many bosses with resource drops before then. Iron man mode completely ruined skilling and that’s why so many players hate them.
@bongshark420
Жыл бұрын
they have updated drop tables several times since ironmen to add resources to older bosses..... or atleast upping the amount they dropped of the items
@Pidbullz
Жыл бұрын
I understand your frustration, but the video is about idk 7 years too late and it is what it is. I'm a high level iron with near to none pvm done so far. Enjoyed the game that way. Sure I'll have my pvm arc sometime soon, but delayed the insane resources coming in as long i could I guess. Would've rather not have droptables like this but yea, too late to change it now
@JaytheGreen
Жыл бұрын
its very obvious ironmen are heavily favored when it comes to medium clue scroll specifically. it took me 16 years and a few thousand clues to obtain my ranger boots
@JaytheGreen
Жыл бұрын
using multiple accounts over the almost few decades...
@mlalbaitero
Жыл бұрын
Since the ge was added yeah. Oh and when the money dragon and money ghosts came and started dropping expensive logs and metals
@martinl56
Жыл бұрын
Skilling is not dead!
@jackiemag4926
Жыл бұрын
I have a skiller lol but i only ever play on it when im doing super afk stuff on the main, goal is to have an untrimmed rc cape on their
@janAlekantuwa
Жыл бұрын
I absolutely agree that bosses drop too many resources. As an iron, I think that part of being an iron is being forced to skill in order to gather said resources. The Essence Mine should be full of irons mining Pure Essence. The Woodcutting, Fishing, and Mining guilds should be full of irons gathering resources. The Gem Rocks should be crowded. I absolutely love the iron gamemode, and I think that having so much resources come in via PvM ruins the spirit of the iron mode, and basically transforms irons into normal accounts. I played my iron as a By Release snowflake, which has forced me to play the game as it was before all the resource-dropping bosses were added, and it's actually quite fun
@kolrengenify
Жыл бұрын
As someone who have a maxed main and a maxed ironman I see no problem in calling it for what it is: "Jagex cater boss drop tables waay to much to Ironmen".. Look at the money slug (Muspah). That thing, especially at launch, spat out basically everything that is somewhat troublesome/bothersome for ironmen to gather/make. ToA (as you mentioned) spits out herb seeds like there is no tomorrow (seemingly so that the resource up-keep for Ironmen is easy, which kinda takes something away from the game mode).. Personally I think Ironman, in its essence, is the best way to experience the game, but Jagex has definitely decided that the main-game economy now plays a solid second fiddle to the "Ironman experience", and I think that is to the detriment of the game overall..
@Ryzen776
Жыл бұрын
It degrade the Ironmen experence too, imo. The whole point of this game mode was to make all content relevent, and force you to do a little bit of everything. But now, you have boss handing you all the supply you need. PvM focused Ironmen should not be a thing, all Ironmen should be forced to dabble in both skilling and PvM to stay self-sufficient. I fthey can't accept that, then Ironmen wasn't for them.
@kolrengenify
Жыл бұрын
@@Ryzen776 - Yeah I agree (think I made that point in my original post too). Ironman has become "too convenient" in many ways.
@TripnotizeVM
Жыл бұрын
The way you miss how the community used to play sounds like you'd have fun with Ironman
@AsukaYenOSRS
Жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t because I liked interacting with the community. Trading and bartering. Splitting boss drops. Etc.
@TripnotizeVM
Жыл бұрын
@@AsukaYenOSRS But you just said GE ruined trading and bartering, and you can now do group ironman. Imo I feel like ironman mode gives more positives than negatives to the game
@muskoxthe
Жыл бұрын
i personally think this whole "issue" is just the individual's perception on how they want to play the game. All options of playstyle are still on the table. In my own personal perception nothing has really changed, there have just been more options added to the game. Sure the way that money is made has been changed but only in the sense of how it is made in the most efficient ways. Bossing is currently the most efficient way. And that is just how it is right now. If you want to make money skilling you still can it's just slower. It's also more afk in most cases. either way its just how you look at the game personally and how you want to play. Slow, fast, efficient, afk, game tick manipulation, or anything in between we all end up at the same end. the only thing that's different is how we get there and what we do with our time on the way and at the end.
@kalkkar
Жыл бұрын
Sup Asuka, Ari here, i 100% agree because all these drops just dosnt fit in for pvm in general and if we get the old falador park market back that be cool too cuse the tax is imo the final part of killing the skilling process
@GrubbsandWyrm
Жыл бұрын
There's a simple fix. Introduce untradable good items you can only make
@chrisjferro7808
Жыл бұрын
Like Mod Matt K said about bots they "do the jobs normal casual players dont want to do" which ironically were those grindy money makers, like flax , and spinning them, actually mining, woodcutting, fishing, cleaning herbs ect now we have everything hit rock bottom due to bots, now most players just buy what they need instead of making money with those methods. They end up doing other methods of money making now like slayer, and bossing NOT skilling ect. Love your opinion on the boss tables and how it ironically aligns with making Iron Men accounts have a better time. There's no doubt Jagex has been leaning in their favor when it comes to that these days. LOTS of Ironman friendly updates
@holyphainesthai286
8 ай бұрын
The fix is simple. Stop ALL skilling drops from ALL sources that aren't skilling.
@sirphilthy7714
Жыл бұрын
Your point on the Ironman mode forcing drop tables to be flooded with resources is spot on. I have thought this way and complained about it for years lol. - anyways cheers man. Love the content as always
@BoHorn
Жыл бұрын
Its partially due to ironman, but vorkath set a precedent for the pvm drop table. Consistent money, no longer is it about waiting for a tasset drop here and there or an ely drop rarely. Consistent money per trip became the preference or the boss would get shit on by complacent pvmers.
@angrybob8126
Жыл бұрын
Like it or not iron mode saved this game
@ITalk69
Жыл бұрын
Personally, I don't think skilling is dead. I have a level 3 skiller, and I still profit from a majority of the skills, besides maybe fishing, everything else I can profit from.
@tylersoexclusive713
Жыл бұрын
Fishing is literally nothing but profit tho. Catching karaumbwans, sharks, anglers, etc then cooking them is literally all profit. You must be barb fishing
@aminus3765
Жыл бұрын
Tempoross is actually doable
@Mert.Ozdinc
Жыл бұрын
I make 5m an hour pking (atleast)
@fowlerfreak7420
Жыл бұрын
@@Mert.Ozdinc My favorite skill, killing
@richardtran9211
Жыл бұрын
Feel like with the price of bonds being 9m unless your pickpocketing elves skilling needs to be way more profitable
@wulf1113
Жыл бұрын
I agree with you, player to player interaction is near non existent outside of whatever clan you may be a part of. I think Jagex realize this, and that was a major drive behind forestry. However, at this point of the games life, there is no way to go back. with as many bosses as there are, having unique drops for each with those drops being the only thing of value from them, would drop popularity of most game bosses to null, save for the ones who have the best gp/hr drops, if only because the cost of supplies for them would be higher and the payout less frequent. As a long term main and a iron of about 3 years, i also agree with one of your last statements. "i like to have options". on my main i actually do more pvm specifically for resource drops to train my skills, while on my iron i manually gather most resources the slower way because "thats how i remember playing when i was a kid and it was more fun". its all about creating a stable ecosystem with resources that allow players to choose more than one path in the game to get to the end. if there was no other option for raw fish and the only way to get it was to spend 50 hours at the fishing guild to get sharks or to spend the hard earned gp that you may not even see again with no profit from a boss, there wouldnt just be no joy, that could kill a players drive to continue, specifically in the early/mid game. A solution that could help would be a system of trading in resources to npc, in return maybe a buff of xp for a period of time while training the skill related to the items sacrificed. say you drop 1k guam, worth 25xp if turned into an att pot, so 25k xp total, and you recieve a 2.5% bonus xp for 1 hour. if you give 1k irit, equal to 100k xp, you get a 10% for 1 hour. the numbers would need tweaking and stuff but that would be something that could be implemented now and most players, irons/mains/ect, could all benifit from it with existing resources. we all want that "best xp/hr", it could really help higher level players with lots of wealth who want higher stats to shell out bigger for raw resources, along with hording the ones they do get and not flooding the market with it. This turned into a longer comment than i thought. Love your stuff man! thanks for sharing what thoughts you had!
@MACARONIDRAGON
Жыл бұрын
Based, delete the ironman mode 2023!
@colinmarshall6634
Жыл бұрын
As an iron, I agree with you about the resource drops in PVM. Stuff like Vetion and Sarachnis basically exists to give us herblore secondaries. It makes the game easier than it should be and a lot of OG irons regularly complain about it.
@2147B
Жыл бұрын
ironman complaining on reddit is a leading reason.
@Noxlion28
Жыл бұрын
Ironman mode should have been added on its own servers. Way too late to go back now, or maybe not idk they nerfed the blowpipe five years after it launched 🤷🏼♂️
@MrPistashios
Жыл бұрын
Yea we suck
@tylersoexclusive713
Жыл бұрын
It needed to happen for Ironmen tho. Gathering resources is wayy too time consuming and we already have to do enough of it as it is. They should’ve maybe separated us and gave us dedicated servers tho. Surely they knew it would crash the market for skilling
@broscapers
Жыл бұрын
It's an MMO. Ironman shouldn't have things added to make things easier for them, it's part of the game mode to be hindered.
@AsukaYenOSRS
Жыл бұрын
@@tylersoexclusive713why play the mode then if it’s too hard?
@ferndup7378
Жыл бұрын
OSRS is becoming RS3, again.
@stephenwolf6135
Жыл бұрын
totally agree, man. I was always a skiller as a kid. Now i have a fairly well progressed account pvm/clue scroll wise with just over 2100 total level but i miss doing gathering skills that could actually make money. Ore drops from zalcano tanked everything mining related. What used to be a very time intensive skill with a slow progression became a easily beatable with one boss. Like you say it's faster to get logs at vork and train other things than it is to cut the magic tree yourself. it's really backward but the game has been trending toward PVM for years. what can you do...
@1958gibsonxplorer1
Жыл бұрын
I think Ironmen need to go back to mining pure essence like B0aty did in “One Man Army”
@abeoliva9308
Жыл бұрын
I started an Ironman account a while ago cause I got banned on my main account when my friend quit and gave me his bank. Don’t know why but they took it as RWT. Did ironman in hopes I wouldn’t be banned again for some bs. But honestly you have valid points and it’s a good video!
@ashtonshephard3852
Жыл бұрын
Eh i basically only skill to either a, meet requirements or b, to save money like making my own cannonballs. Maybe it would be a good thing, removing some skilling drops from boss tables and replacing them with something like sellable skilling lootbags or something. That would force prices on skilling items to go back up since people would have to gather them, bosses would still have a purpose for skillers, and it keep both activities profitable. Im sure theres some balance here to be found. But like you, i do slayer mostly for cash, and then pvm.
@audriussavickas2393
Жыл бұрын
Lets make this, vote for original 07 oldschool re-release and name this rs2.5 because this is closer to rs3 than it is to 07!
@AsukaYenOSRS
Жыл бұрын
Hell I’d rather have a version of the game the day after the slayer skill was released.
@PeaceTea
Жыл бұрын
And I'm still skillin.
@energyjtww
Жыл бұрын
4 new bosses coming with dt2, I feel like they are going to be zulrah/muspav like with majority of drops/profit being skillibg supplies
@mandrue73
Жыл бұрын
We’ll see, but Mod Arcane did say in the recent Q&A that these 4 bosses will have godwars-style drop tables :)
@energyjtww
Жыл бұрын
@@mandrue73 hmm. Interesting because i dont see the drops being hugely sought after ring upgrades and robes seem like only good drops, also meta for most pvm is trident style, so i forsee robes being less than ancestral
@Mitch1563
Жыл бұрын
Last time they said that we ended up with nightmare, I think they are gonna take the other end of the spectrum for GWD drops this time :P
@sethshaw4830
Жыл бұрын
Agree 100% on the resource drops. Its gotten pretty damn ridiculous. I still enjoy skilling and continue to do it but its in no way to make a profit. I love osrs and have been playing this game since 2005 but its sad to see a lot of the elements that made up the game get phased out. It definitely seems to be more focused on PVM than anything. Also agree on the skill pitches. Had the same train of thought with Shamanism being a good way to incorporate resources from other skills. I will say though I thought forestry turned out pretty good. It was nice hitting up some old spots and seeing them filled with other players.
@easygame7955
Жыл бұрын
100% agree PVM drops should be rare drops, rune items, or coins.
@OukerTeams
Жыл бұрын
Ironman is the only good way of playing this game nowadays.
@Noxlion28
Жыл бұрын
How though? I absolutely hate the idea of ironman mode. This game is already a huge time sink, I have zero interest in grinding out 85 slayer just to get a whip.
@OukerTeams
Жыл бұрын
@@Noxlion28 Alot more fun having step by step goals to a big unlock than finding the best gp/h method you can do/enjoy and boiling every goal into x hours of that chosen method ad nauseam.
@Ghost-qi4td
Жыл бұрын
@@Noxlion28 Then play in a way that makes you happy, contrary to what uninformed people say, Ironman is about the slow steady accumulation of resources and items from every possible source, not just bum rush to muspah and do nothing else for 500 hours till u have the resources to max, THAT is what main/normal accounts do, and the opposite of ironmen. We don't do birdhouse runs because it can pay for our bond, we do it because we need the seeds and the nests, we don't do kingdom to sell the herbs and seeds, we need them, we do slayer not for the money per hour but because we need access to the exclusive drops from higher tier monsters. We are out here playing the mingames and using as much content as we can, and mains out there hating themselves for spending 200 straight hours at one boss so they can Buy their next upgrade just take out their anger on us.
@Noxlion28
Жыл бұрын
@@Ghost-qi4td I also use kingdom for herbs. Stop acting like you’re better than mains because you “use more content”. Like bro come on. If you wanna spend that amount of time you do you
@Noxlion28
Жыл бұрын
@@OukerTeams what makes you think mains don’t have step by step goals? I’ve been working towards base 80 skills for the past month and I am not super rich so it’s been a process. I actually keep herbs and seeds because it’s such an expensive skill and any total levels that don’t require me to spend my dream gear money on are worth it to me. I keep some of the ores I get from MLM but sell the others. That’s why I prefer a normal account. I can utilize skilling but also buy things I don’t feel the need to do a ridiculous grind for.
@OSRS77774
Жыл бұрын
As someone who's only ever played osrs in the last few years and only played Iron mode (2022 TL, no 99s) I completely agree with you on removing resource drops from bosses. I love bossing, but if you want magic logs, you should have to either buy them on a non-iron or cut magic trees. It does make getting anything above diary requirements redundant if you can get those resources faster/a variety of skill experience - just from bossing. The increase of resources dropping from bosses definitely seems to take away from the prestige of having a maxed account, at least from the iron perspective.
@Theundisputedelite
Жыл бұрын
Been on the king black dragon grind for the pet for a few days now and im having a blast, im having more fun bossing that im not even interested in lvling up my skills anymore unless its for a quest, except for slayer, thats a big exception…
@BingChiller227
11 ай бұрын
i totally agree man
@loganclancy2157
Жыл бұрын
Interesting video and I agree with alot of the points you made. Something else that is contributing in my opinion is all the bots that chop trees and mine for 24 hours a day that jagex is in no hurry to do anything about.
@MRkriegs
6 ай бұрын
Thank Mod Matt K for all of this problem.
@Blitzcomin
Жыл бұрын
i always thought it was weird that a dragon dropped logs. like wtf it holding onto logs.
@wolf-en8xd
Жыл бұрын
I just came back to osrs after a 6-7 year break. Back then, I remember there was drama because Zulrah was shitting resources like crazy only to come back now and they made literally every boss/raid like that. Wtf happened and why is Jagex killing skilling
@SuperKinahead
Жыл бұрын
Yep, nowadays its just used as a means to get max cape.
@bk9839
Жыл бұрын
Skilling is dead, because of bots. almost all end game bosses have been designed with skilling supplies as part of the drops to completely tank the price of the item that bot farms often farmed. TOA seeds and muspah seeds was there to tank the price of master farmer bots, all the magic log table rolls is to kill the woodcutting bots, lets be real no real player actual skills and they prob wouldnt even if it made 5m an hour, because it would be flooded with bots crashing the price. bots upkeep and ruin the normal game economy price wise, but they also crash prices of end game items, if you make less money but spend less then its the exact same. Iron is the most ideal way to play the game as you enjoy the game and not just the GP rat race to get max items. since bots will do every single little low requirement money maker that is possible, that is why skilling is dead.
@speedwalkingmasta6609
Жыл бұрын
This is a GE problem disguised as a drop rate problem, the fact you just straight up buy whatever you want from the GE has given everything no meaning excluding pets
@abbrah
Жыл бұрын
Definitely agree that supply drops shouldn't be at a better rate than doing the skill itself. Completely defeats the point of skilling.
@pistabacsi462
Жыл бұрын
Iron man mode cuts into what this game was really about. Skilling, grinding and trading with people. I quit when the GE came out. Hated it. Best part of runescape was bartering
@royalblood832
Жыл бұрын
That's definitely a factor they're catering to Ironman mode so much to the point of its destroying regular game play, I'm soo tired of pvm I want to skill but none of them be a decent profit an hour so I quit the game till I'm mentally sane to pvm again smfh
@KyloB
8 ай бұрын
I think a bigger point for me that no one seems to bring up is that skilling doesnt actually have any value. 99 smithing is a hell of an achievement, and you're rewarded by being able to make a lv40, ftp chest piece that could otherwise just be bought from an npc for
@LCHammertime
Жыл бұрын
I feel like PvM should reward players that are skillers. Rewards should be based on levels of skills. Level 1 herblore should get guams when they get herb drops. Level 1 farming should give you potato seeds. This would make a huge incentive to actually do skilling
@jdudey9369
Жыл бұрын
i think the GE did a lot more good then harm because back then you had to wait around in falador park and wait for someone to sell what you want to buy or buy what you want to sell and if you did manage to find someone you have to make sure they put in the right amount of stuff or gp so you make sure you dont get scammed i think thats why the GE was added because that was a massive waste of time to try to buy something vs you go to GE and lets say you want 500 prayer pots at once you can get that instantly and dont have to go around trading however many people and making sure you dont get scammed along the way.
@mrputter-rs
Жыл бұрын
Man you make always great videos, and i agree that profiting from skilling is a dream when u play afk for 2 hours and u make 300k while bond is over 7 mill. Honestly i don t hunt for riches but when the effort is too big compared with the reward there is no motivation left. Your idea of finding real uses for those resources has already been processed in forestry but cosmetics don t pay your bond either. I am confident that with names like yours and others on your "line of duty" will bring positive changes in the game. Thanks for your efforts .
@JoeBruceMock
Жыл бұрын
I have mixed feelings. Which I think stems from that I feel like I don't have as much time to play as others. I see people posting about having completed thousands of clue scrolls or kill ten thousand whatever creatures and I'm just baffled. I do think that it should take some dedication, but like I feel as though I'm never going to see some of the end game content drops. I do kind of agree that if you play an iron or ultimate iron that you have given up your right to complain about grinding or collecting. That's kind of the point of the game mode. So the sweats can have their fun and dedicated players can be rewarded. I think what I'm trying to say is it is hard for someone that plays 5-10 hours a week to make progress. Idk if that is a good or bad thing but sometimes it frustrates me 🤷
@usalscorner
Жыл бұрын
I'm one of those weird ones that plays both versions of the game so I like the GE. But at the same time I love skilling, so I gather my own supplies as much as I can and use the GE to sell things I don't need and buy the big stuff.
@dirtynovi7576
Жыл бұрын
100% agree on the bosses, and people talk about the bot issue, but how many actual players were doing what bots do now just because it was more profitable? You could go to varrock mine locations and spend hours mining and talking to actual people. The bots are only an issue now because all the other players who enjoyed the content of gathering and socializing left when it became almost pointless
@bercandiah-9389
Жыл бұрын
As an ironman I totally disagree
@Glaedr11
Жыл бұрын
To me, the issue is that there are skills that have little to no use in a practical, day to day way. Smithing, mining, woodcutting, fletching, and perhaps thieving just dont really have as much impact as skills like herblore, cooking, fishing, farming and hunter. I think the bosses diluting the resource pool is beginning to highlight the fact that players only need a little bit of specific resources to carry on doing "fun activities" with the best setups. They need to incentivize some other skills, like armor "getting dented" and requiring time in an animation to restore full stats that is lowered by high smithing, or sitting by fires with high logs doing things like slightly increasing rare drop table hits, doubling hitpoint regeneration, or increasing run regen for an hour. Idk, just my two cents as someone fairly casual who has just started PvMing
@iNick90
Жыл бұрын
You know I was asking myself the other day. Why is it that I buy GP? And something kind of dawned on me that I never thought of before. Back in the day when you could turn huge profit by skilling alone I had no reason to buy GP. Wasn't even tempted by it. And then it seemed like after ironman came out things started to change but everything changed really slowly so I never could really pinpoint what exactly what was going on and now that I've realized and so have a lot of other players who like skilling there is no more money to be made there is no way to keep up with someone who PVMs anymore it's just not possible So I'm going to admit this in public. I buy GP because Skilling is dead and there's no way for me to keep up with someone who PVMs I never thought I'd be in this position and I don't want to spend money on GP in the game I really don't
@r3al1200
6 ай бұрын
Revenants,zul-rah-,vorkath are the main big problems in RuneScape's economy
@latvian14
Жыл бұрын
I remember when OSRS came out, many players were against big resource drops from pvm, since the same issue was in preeoc/rs3 and it was a known issue already. Then Zulrah came out and there was an outrage of how much you get from a single boss. In the end many players wanted bosses to have constant valuable drops from pvming so Jagex appealed to the masses. You can't have it in both ways, sadly. Imo, gwd was a great way to do pvming. Just because bosses don't drop many valuable supplies non-stop, doesn't make them not worth doing. It just makes the unique drops more valuable (Like how Zulrah uniques cost almost nothing compared to Bandos, etc).
@AsukaYenOSRS
Жыл бұрын
Having every boss have a GWD style drop table would be just fine with me.
@AIRFGC
Жыл бұрын
Ironman biased drop tables 100% a thing
@zacharyschumacher9015
Жыл бұрын
Create a gathering skill and artisan skill that is similar to slayer but that becomes the resource sink
@unclestache4200
Жыл бұрын
This is a great video, I didn't think I was going to be SO on board with this video when I clicked on it. I think your theory about the drops being in the game for Irons I'd have to agree with!
@VeggehGaming
Жыл бұрын
Quick TL;DR: Getting rid of incentives without adequately replacing them could cause more long-term issues than it solves. I agree with the principles of your argument but I think there is a flaw in your first solution longer term and this comes down to player engagement. Either these drops act as ways to help Ironmen and skillers gather resources as you said or they are used as a means of profiting from bosses which seems to be generally why people do them. Personally, I would rather boss for the fun of it but I'm old and I'm not everyone and many people these days are profit/efficiency focused... Straight up removing these drops is going to do two things: 1. Skillers lose any incentive to enter into PvM content. This may or may not be a bad thing depending on perspective. Skillers are probably less interested in PvM and may not care whether they take part or not but some might want to dabble into PvM for a little variety in their gameplay but without skilling drops there's no hook to incentivise them into doing maybe more than a few kills before stopping. And this might be ok as they're probably going to go back to their primary gameplay but there could be unintended consequences that we can't foresee right now. 2. PvM'ers lose an enormous amount of their incentive to farm bosses. Yes there will be the uniques but those are often rare drop chances that require significant time investment and resources. If there's no real profit in between big drops then I'd wager that there'd be a huge drop-off in player participation overall as the consumption of resources drains them dry without something profitable to sell to stem the bleeding. PvMers would be forced to skill for the money or the resources directly (content they probably don't want to do) or quit the game. And if players are quitting then that is bad news for all of us... With that in mind, if we were to remove these bulk noted drops from bosses, what do they get replaced with? You can't really leave it empty otherwise most times you kill a boss all you're getting is bones. That's a quick way to kill PvM content. More alchables to offset the loss? Maybe but a lot of these alchables are already "end-game" items for production skills like Smithing so would this hurt those skills even more without doing some kind of revamp like RS3 got which turns the alchables into scraps? And how popular would such a change be? More consumable resource drops? This could backfire as both players and bots would be able to sustain their trips for much much longer which is going to make finding free worlds to do the content on even more difficult when most of the bosses, especially earlier ones, aren't instanced and so this existing issue just gets worse. So I don't think there's an easy fix here. And then you have to consider Ironmen. Maybe it would be ok for them to have to go back to the old days where resource gathering meant more but I don't know if that would be popular amongst their entire community. Removing noted drops entirely could screw with the perception of the gamemode for a lot of players and, again, maybe force them into quitting. Again, this is bad. So maybe there's a middle-ground here with bosses having Ironmen-specific loot tables that have these additional skilling-related drops but in less egregious amounts than they do currently. Since Ironmen don't directly interact with the economy these materials won't ever enter it and bloat the economy which would work well in tandem with any adjustments made to the normal loot table. And having fewer resources drop would still mean they have to engage with skilling content which they were probably doing at some point anyway.
@RyanPaly
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, in my opinion, PVM should exist to consume skilling resources (food, potions, runes, etc.) PVM should not be a source of these items.
@KioTheProducer
Жыл бұрын
We always look back to old days thinking things were better. Let's be real nobody wants to fish lobsters for money
@penallywill
Жыл бұрын
give skills items worth a lot? like bosses people do bossing more to get the 30mill+ item, i would rather spend time fishing farming etc as an ironman than have it as a drop from a boss, i am just maxing and done barley any bossing yet but a bank full of thousands of pots food etc from skilling
@SryAFK
Жыл бұрын
I agree with most of points you made. I personally like the GE, but not the tax lol! I would definitely like it more if there was more transparency with pricing.
@dylanguitarr
Жыл бұрын
youre definitely right about the ironman conspiracy lol
@xpopups
Жыл бұрын
Cleaning herbs historically was always a loss .. but you would make profit by making half pots with them and selling thoose
@AsukaYenOSRS
Жыл бұрын
It definitely wasn’t. In the early days of OSRS I could turn a huge profit by cleaning and sell back herbs. This was before the GE in like 2013-2014.
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