I've been in the Army a loooong time. I was taught the wounding/two men to treat, four to carry when I did my basic. However, Afghanistan put that myth to bed for me. I can guarantee that 5.56 does more than wound.
@ulrikerudel6859
10 ай бұрын
in which range would you consider it so effective? Or could you give me a distance where you start losing confidence in that round?
@jaadow77
2 жыл бұрын
Another aspect about the wounded soldier taking more soldiers out of the fight - that's projecting our attitude on the enemy, who may not have as much respect for the "leave no man behind" ethos.
@oldsalt898
2 жыл бұрын
Great point Mr. Doe
@aaronorr5586
2 жыл бұрын
Forcing an ambushing party into a full retreat there are times when the retreating party would try to get as many of their injured people out for Intelligence and Information denial to the successful party.
@ShepherdOfTheSilkies
2 жыл бұрын
@@aaronorr5586 not all the time and not with every enemy force
@JW-gl6dd
2 жыл бұрын
The VC was decent even to McCain. They shot him down and rescued him and still he had nothing but racist distain for the brave soldiers defending their homeland from the invaders.
@LuvBorderCollies
2 жыл бұрын
Noticed the Russians are quick to leave wounded behind.
@BatCaveOz
2 жыл бұрын
The muzzle energy of a 5.56/.223 is way higher than a .44 Magnum. I don't hear anyone say that the .44 Magnum was "designed to wound".
@apathy1128
2 жыл бұрын
“Muh forty five will put down a bear!” Also, “five five six with 3.5x the energy is a varmint round designed to wound”
@Subtlenimbus
Жыл бұрын
Depends. The ar pistols that are all the rage right now are about equal to 44 mag. A 44 magnum is above 75% the energy of a 20” ar.
@HumbleWarrior7
2 жыл бұрын
Before the internet many people relied on the local gun shop for their firearms information, myself included. It’s amazing to see how many old tales and myths were simply passed on (or originated) from those shops and became the prevailing theories of the gun world.
@jarink1
2 жыл бұрын
Now old tales and myths are passed on via the internet.
@nathancummins8728
2 жыл бұрын
Had a local gun shop try and sell my friend (who’s 19) a mossberg shockwave which is classified as an “firearm” so you gotta be 21. They even let him fill out all the paperwork for it.
@widehotep9257
2 жыл бұрын
K N O C K D O W N P O W E R !
@sawhill729
2 жыл бұрын
@@widehotep9257 No such thing.
@hanskurtmann6781
2 жыл бұрын
Yes those days were phone calls and or gunshop visits and even then you had to wary of what was said. But with the web you really gotta be careful in fact I would never go with one person on the web you need to verify the same with at least half a dozen to be credible, but I would still read or ask from real life or actual industry experts like gun manufacturer family and friends that I have and or use but you learn from experience and research via books or classes. So you would not need to go on KZitem of all places to find out a problem with your firearm etc . Point is the web has some good like Brownells etc But many especially non industry types like the ton of guntubers most of which are very inaccurate or flat out wrong. No offense but in my 40yrs of shooting and 30yrs of collecting only a very few online know what they are talking about and bad info gets tossed around really fast on the web, so much so the web would be the last place to look for info.
@WadeWallazy
2 жыл бұрын
Watching Caleb trying to hold it together cracked me up. These Smyth Busters episodes are some of my favorite videos on KZitem
@danjohnson6870
2 жыл бұрын
Caleb isn’t exactly a very substantial looking guy. I’m 6’1” and 155 so I know the feeling.
@drenk7
2 жыл бұрын
I have learned most fire fights are a 100 M or less. As Steve said most infantry are just laying down a field of fire. The theory of 223/556 was more rounds can be carried for the same weight. Rounds are heavy!
@yechezkelmendoza5698
2 жыл бұрын
Well their information is common sense. Some of the best knowledge you can possibly get regarding any firearm is provided here. They are the experts, armorers, testers - more than most people I know. They definitely hold a lot more knowledge than what I can recall from learning in the basic characteristics of a firearm platform than what I learned in bootcamp with the M16A2 and when I got to the fleet and was issued a M16A4.
@snowlothar45
2 жыл бұрын
Even though I showed my wife this video after buying a Garand today, I am still on the couch tonight.
@Super-Kuper
2 жыл бұрын
Next up: “.22lr is the most deadly cartridge because it just ‘bounces around’ inside”
@woohoo2you966
2 жыл бұрын
That is why my pawpaw used to hunt deer with a 22 short from 200 yards because it was more deadly than a 30-30 at point blank range.
@frankbrowning328
2 жыл бұрын
Great idea. We've heard this statement for decades, but we don't see any type of conclusive testing in flesh and bone to bear out this statement. Even Paul Harrels meat target doesn't show 22LR bullets bouncing all around the ribs, meat and oranges.
@mikeb1956
2 жыл бұрын
Actually the number of people killed with the 22 rivals that of the 38…
@woohoo2you966
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikeb1956 Water kills more people per year than a .50 BMG, 22LR, 9mm, 2.23 / 5.56, 7.62x39 & 51, and .38 combined yet I take a shower every morning and drink loads of dihydrogen monoxide (they even give it to kids...for free!). Almost like the volume of fatalities alone does not directly equate to "deadliness."
@frankbrowning328
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikeb1956 Yes, the 22LR has killed many, many times. It's a very popular round for many reasons. However, the question was about the bullet supposedly bouncing around the interior of a body.
@showtime2629
2 жыл бұрын
They were designed to be light so you could carry much more of them, average rounds per kill were high so it made more sense to have more lighter rounds for suppressive fire. Also the are easier to shoot/ flatter trajectory.
@BigJon410
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, that is why the Russians also designed the AK 74 in 5.45x39.
@kinzieconrad105
2 жыл бұрын
Nope, the 5.56 was a work around to get buy the expanding bullet ban by the Geneva convention!
@tjreed1419
2 жыл бұрын
This was specifically mentioned by Eugene stoner himself in the tapes you can watch on KZitem one of the biggest reasons the military switched to the AR15/M16 platform was because it was lighter
@kirkmooneyham
2 жыл бұрын
@@kinzieconrad105, I'd love to see some documentation which states that.
@BlindSpot1000
2 жыл бұрын
@@kinzieconrad105 It's the Hague, not Geneva Conventions, and the US isn't a signatory though we (mostly) abide by it...until we don't. The 5.56 cartridge was adopted becuase it was light and a soldier could carry more, not because of the Hague Conventions.
@Ratkill9000
2 жыл бұрын
I mean good luck trying to design a bullet to wound only, at least in that regard. Still wouldn't want to be shot with any bullet regardless of what it was designed to do.
@johnstoveken5901
2 жыл бұрын
paint ball?!?!
@BanjoZZZ
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnstoveken5901 BULLET
@Ratkill9000
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnstoveken5901 BULLET not projectile. Or would have said something for less than lethal like rubber bullet, bean bag, etc.
@meestahwill
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnstoveken5901 You're the kind of guy that would remind the teacher that she forgot to assign our daily homework.
@sillyshrapnel
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnstoveken5901 paint bullet?
@earlholbrook8177
2 жыл бұрын
I have no room to talk because I hunt with a 7.62x54r m91/30... But I have witnessed multiple deer and elk dropped any where from 40-250 yards with a 5.56x45(.223). I definitely don't want to be an the receiving end of that ammo
@deraxelturrelkeign
2 жыл бұрын
Technically speaking most war/self defense cartridges are designed to neutralize enemy combatants/attackers by inflicting grievous life threatening wounds. Its just that attackers tend to be quite neutralized when they are dead.
@danjohnson6870
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve killed several deer with 223 and 22-250. None were ever just wounded
@csmphotography
2 жыл бұрын
All bullets are designed to stop the threat. It is up to the shooter to make that happen. If killing the threat is what must happen, then so be it.
@jaredbickmore2474
2 жыл бұрын
Getting into deep fudd lore I see
@Gunthusiest
2 жыл бұрын
"Bird shot is good for home defense cuz you don't gotta aim a shotgun"
@MAGAMAN
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gunthusiest Just shoot through the door.
@robertdahle7216
2 жыл бұрын
Hope you're kidding or your name says it all
@jaredbickmore2474
2 жыл бұрын
@@robertdahle7216 he's probably being sarcastic
@Gunthusiest
2 жыл бұрын
@@robertdahle7216 notice the quote marks? It's a common fudd myth. Yes, I'm kidding.
@Archimedes616
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know whether this has been brought up, but doesn't the Geneva Convention outlaw expanding bullets, FMJ bullets becoming the standard as a result? So if you can't use expanding bullets, how about using FMJs that tumble instead of boring straight through in order to get a larger and nastier wound channel? Keeps the letter of the law while circumventing the spirit of the law.
@aaronorr5586
2 жыл бұрын
Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 have to do with conventional weapons (small arms). The Geneva Conventions came out after WWII and specifically address the rights of POW's and Non-combatants in a warzone. The time of the Hague Conventions and its actual relevance in war is murky at best considering Flame Throwers, land mines, and various pesticides and herbicides were allowed in war zones.
@Archimedes616
2 жыл бұрын
@@aaronorr5586 Appreciated.
@usmc24thmeu36
2 жыл бұрын
Report after the 1st few M 16's were sent to Vietnam was that even wounds ended up killing the VC. The m16 produced devastating effects on the body.
@mjcmustang
2 жыл бұрын
A 20" barrel is what that cartridge was designed around. It performs well for its size out of a 18-20" barrel. When you start reducing barrel length and velocity, it looses a lot of performance. I've heard more negatives about the cartridge out of a 14.5" barrel but more good things about it from a 20". I feel a lighter weight, longer barrel is the best balance for the 5.56 factoring in weight and cartridge downrange performance. Not to mention the longer barreled rifles are pussy cats to shoot. Nice soft recoil impulse with little to no muzzle climb
@aaronorr5586
2 жыл бұрын
@@mjcmustang Modern projectile design along with gas system improvements mean you can have your cake 12.5" 1 in 7" twist barrel carbine and eat up the opposition too.
@paulreid2223
2 жыл бұрын
I can still remember the anti-US propaganda of the time , that the wounds from an Armalite round would bubble and froth for 10 minutes after impact ..
@nk-dw2hm
2 жыл бұрын
@@mjcmustang they were tested on a 22" barrel actually
@LuvBorderCollies
2 жыл бұрын
One of my uncles was a Huey left seater in the 229th Av Btl 1965-66 in the 1st Cav. He was in the debacle known as the Ia Drang Valley aka LZ X-RAY etc in November 1965. He was one of those who volunteered to fly in supplies and fly out wounded when the medevac stopped flying because it was too dangerous. When Tet exploded the Army sent him back for a 2nd tour which he wasn't happy about. He saw a lot of dead and wounded in those tours. When he described the "wounding" bullet of the 5.56mm he would physically shiver just describing the terrible wounds that little bullet caused. Etc: At Ia Drang he went through 3 Hueys in one afternoon and got wounded to boot. He initially was awarded the DFC but that was later recommended to Silver Star.
@jackmehoff2363
2 жыл бұрын
Every time you see a fudd say this, ask them this one question, what part of the projectile makes it wound and not kill. Ask them physically how the hell shooting someone in the gut with it will only wound and not kill. This is the most mindless fuddlore ever. It's like they have no ability to think at all.
@linkbond08
2 жыл бұрын
"The 30-06 does it all." Truer words were never spoken.
@johngetty3839
2 жыл бұрын
I love my AR15 and my M-1 equally
@jasonlopez4855
2 жыл бұрын
30-06 never failed for me and my dad My grandfather only had one rifle and it was a 30-06 on his Ranch.
@linkbond08
2 жыл бұрын
@@johngetty3839 I do also, but when I want to reach out and touch something, and I want that something to know it's been touched, I grab my 06. I don't yet have a M-1 tho :(
@douglascatron9073
2 жыл бұрын
And as a bonus,the 06 A/P round will cut through at least 3” of concrete like it is paper! Got to love it!!!
@linkbond08
2 жыл бұрын
@@douglascatron9073 they're so hard to get tho :(
@bigdog5405
2 жыл бұрын
What on earth are you two drinking out of these coffee mugs ?
@Stoney_AKA_James
2 жыл бұрын
I have NEVER heard of any military rifle and or pistol ammunition made specifically to wound, so whoever came up with that was either ill-informed or very naive!
@Ratkill9000
2 жыл бұрын
2 things can be true.
@kinzieconrad105
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ratkill9000 yeh it’s tumbles cause it is not allowed to expand cause of Geneva convention ban!
@akaruchoose2693
2 жыл бұрын
Ill-informed AND very naive? Now that's a dangerous caliber!
@loumencken9644
2 жыл бұрын
@@kinzieconrad105 Hague Convention. The Geneva Convention dealt with treatment of prisoners, Hague Convention dealt with weapons and ammo. The US never signed or ratified the Hague Convention article banning expanding bullets but observed it anyway, although I read somewhere the army is now using hollow points in their new Sigs.
@fiveowaf454
2 жыл бұрын
@@loumencken9644 I've always found that to be a curious concept regarding bullet type. In war we kill people by all means available and shoot to kill the enemy, why the use of a hollow point bullet is considered so abhorrent seems ludicrous in the scheme of things.
@roygaisser9230
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I have LITERALLY heard this from "knowledgeable" guys for 40-50 years! Never bought it, but yes, I did hear it.
@arch3088
2 жыл бұрын
It was designed to be light weight, thus allowing the soldier to carry more rounds. It really is that simple.
@brucekastel707
2 жыл бұрын
The way I remember it was, as with any major change in weaponry, some folks doubted the smaller round's effectiveness, with the official response being that even if was a less effective killer taking care of wounded troops took more resources. It was never designed just to wound. All this was just arm chair warefare during the introduction and I never heard anyone wish for a 7.62 while in combat. I carried both and the big factor to me was weight and the size of ammo. You could carry a lot more firepower with the smaller 5.56. Both rounds do horrific damage.
@cycleboy8028
2 жыл бұрын
It was all about "meet minimum spec" and have the most "rounds per pound". That's it.
@mylesharvey6488
2 жыл бұрын
Yup M240 verus the SAW. Lighter means more bullets.
@arthurdsoto5751
2 жыл бұрын
I saw a Solider that was in Special Operations, & he said " I gave a lot of the Enemy a Dirt Nap with the 5.56" I guess that would settle that question. Just Saying 🤔
@onenikkione
2 жыл бұрын
since they're napping, they're just wounded
@dlogan3004
2 жыл бұрын
The Irish/US SF guy that was on Garand Thumb? Yeah I caught that line too, and he was very serious about it lol
@kimbellbush1857
2 жыл бұрын
I am not exaggerating, every deer I have shot with 5.56 has dropped in it tracks. I am for the neck of course but dump their energy quickly and that’s what is needed for a neck shot.
@timothyprice9064
2 жыл бұрын
Hydrostatic shock to the CNS will tend to do to any animal regardless of the animals' size.
@lon242
2 жыл бұрын
Neck shot doesn't ruin the meat does it? Genuinely would like to know, looking to go on my first hunt real soon
@kimbellbush1857
2 жыл бұрын
@@lon242 no actually it typically saves more meat than higher powered cartridge going beside/behind the shoulder. So there’s another benefit for you.
@timothyprice9064
2 жыл бұрын
@@lon242 Have fun on your hunt, and think safety. Head shots only ruin the head and neck. With that in mind even when the animal hits the ground stay on the ready with gun chambered for another shot. Nothing's wrong with putting a round between the ears from the back of the head just in case the animal was stunned.
@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595
2 жыл бұрын
@@lon242 Shooting an animal anywhere that will kill it is going to damage some edible meat. If you want the neck roast, shoot it in the heart. If you want the ribs and front quarters, shoot it in the neck.
@onmilo
2 жыл бұрын
My .223 Ruger Mini 14 using 64 grain PMC soft points sure did kill East Texas Whitetails very dead. Would I go after a 300 pound midwestern Buck or Andre The Giant with a .223 and feel confident? Well...
@ronniebaughman1666
2 жыл бұрын
The deer that I killed with the the 223 didn't know that .
@johngalt2506
2 жыл бұрын
Yes but the theory is that if you wound the deer it takes 2 deer to take care of the wounded deer thus the wounded deer becomes a burden on the deer logistics system 😉
@chrismanning1171
2 жыл бұрын
When my Drill Sergeant first took me to the shooting range he did not say shit about wounding the enemy.
@byutube4360
2 жыл бұрын
If 5.56/.223 was designed to wound, was .357, which is about half as powerful, designed to tickle?
@realfubar6238
2 жыл бұрын
I took an xm193 556 round to the right side of my torso from 10-15 yards away from a negligent gun owner with a 16 inch barreled ar 15 it pretty much destroyed my 7th and 8th rib destroyed 40% percent of my liver lacerated my right kidney contusion to my colon and due to the entrance and exit wound my right lung collapsed as a result. I was medevacked to a level 2 trauma center were I was put in a drug induced coma and under went 3 life saving surgeries along with emergency blood transfusions due to heavy internal bleeding from the damage the 556 caused. I still have fragments of the 556 round in my body that the surgeons couldn't extract without doing more damage so they left them in. I truly only survived due to the grace of God and got a second chance at life and an opportunity to find salvation through Jesus Christ. I guess you can say the 556 round wounded me pretty well.
@hitekscorp
2 жыл бұрын
The overlooked factor was weight, Vietnam didn't have road networks so most of the supply and troop movement was by air, primarily helicopter, also most of the fighting was done in less than ideal conditions and relied more on volume of fire rather than concentration, with the .556 a soldier could carry more ammo and more could be transported by light aircraft.
@Onepeg
2 жыл бұрын
This content is relevant to my interests
@CT-Woods
2 жыл бұрын
I mean... any round that is booking at 3200 fps is definitely not “designed” to wound.... on impact... it explodes my dudes.. or more accurately, it fragments.. . Look at the cavitation it causes. It, in my opinion, is deadlier than 30-06 when it slams flesh.
@aaronorr5586
2 жыл бұрын
There are a lot of people in the inner city that have been slabbed from a single 22 long rifle round. While that by no means makes it a great round for personal defense it just goes to show that bullets out of pistol are bullets and will act a certain way, just like bullets out of a long gun are bullets and will act another certain way.
@whereswaldo6085
2 жыл бұрын
Does this myth have its roots in the Geneva Convention? Didn't they ban projectiles other than FMJ in order create less damage to the opposing human body? That said a projectile design is not the same as a cartridge design. .223 and .556 are both not designed to just wound.
@SW-ii5gg
2 жыл бұрын
They put that anti-kill technology into them and added some of that wound only blend into them.
@bc30cal99
2 жыл бұрын
Morning again from the mountains of southern BC gentlemen. I comment only to send a shout out for the standard coffee cups. By the way, we can legally hunt all big game in BC with a .223 except for bison. Bull moose or bull elk are legal however with a .223 but I'd say not commonly used for that purpose. All the best.
@myfavoritemartian
2 жыл бұрын
My understanding that when the 5.56 first came out in Eugene Stoners M16 rifle the barrel had a twist of 1:12 rather than the more modern 1:7, 1:8, 1:9 and the bullet did tend to keyhole the entry hole, but does the AR 223 wound or kill? Both ! if you ask Kyle Rittenhouse 😆
@strangleholdoutdoors
2 жыл бұрын
A guy on public land wanted to fight me one time because he was so upset seeing me deer hunting with a 5.56
@MFPWM2010
2 жыл бұрын
Ha, I have shot several deer with a 5.56. With the right bullet it is very effective. I shot a buck at about 50 yards quartering away from me. Dropped him right in his tracks. Instantly dead. Shot a doe in the shoulder and she made it about 10 yards. Upon skinning her it looked like a bomb went off in her shoulder. You would have thought she was shot with a lot larger round.
@bikerbernie821
2 жыл бұрын
@@MFPWM2010 thanks for sharing... I am a novice and new to this and I am always looking for advice and because of my lack of armaments and my son-in-law wanting to go with me and my son and his son I was weighing whether I would bring my AR with me so I could use that... That is why I bought a 10-round magazine with a -5... and polymer tipped soft points in case I see things exactly as you posted and I've seen more and more of them... So thanks again
@jalexanderevans
2 жыл бұрын
You can do it, but why pass up an opportunity to buy an AR-308! Haha
@MFPWM2010
2 жыл бұрын
@@bikerbernie821 Use a bullet designed for hunting. I like the all copper projectiles. Soft points will work too but I have found them to be fairly inaccurate in semi auto rifles. At least mine anyway. Always worth a try in yours. Some people have good luck with them, and they are less expensive. That being said, I probably wouldn’t take a very long shot with the 5.56 just to be safe. Probably keep it under 200 yards. The deer I have shot have been within 50 yards.
@mattfleming86
2 жыл бұрын
@@bikerbernie821 Great gun, wrong bullet. You want a bonded bullet (Federal Fusion, Speer Gold Dot, Nosler Bonded Solid Base, Federal trophy bonded bear claw) or a copper solid (Barnes Tsx/TTSX or hornady GMX) Tipped varmint bullets are not suitable for normal hunting methods. They sometimes will not penetrate deep enough. Find some 62gr gold dots or 75gr if you have larger deer. 5.56/223 is PLENTY lethal and I've never had a deer go more than 15 yards- but your shot placement and bullet type matters.
@kinzieconrad105
2 жыл бұрын
No they nicknamed it the axe for a reason! The bullet was designed to fly str8 and tumble on impact! Why you ask?, cause Geneva convention outlaws expanding bullets! Now by making a long bullet that is longer than it is wide, once it tumble’s the wound track will be larger! My first father in-law was in Vietnam he got shot in the head by an AK and survived and while making his wayback to his unit after he regained consciousness he took a 5.56 by friendly to the shoulder and almost died!
@ltgreen6626
2 жыл бұрын
The same was said about the 30 M1 carbine, but Audie Murphy proved them wrong. If a man is a good shot and knows his weapon, that weapon, no matter what it is, it is a killing machine. If a man is a lousy shot, no matter what weapon he has, it is only good for wounding, or just wasting lead.
@mjcmustang
2 жыл бұрын
Just remember with the M1 Garand, he wanted it chambered in .276 Pederson. The only reason it was chambered in 30-06 was because the US military had enormous supplies of M2 Ball and it also made logistics easier when the MBR and LMGs used the same caliber. The military knew intermediate cartridges were a better choice but it made less logistical and financial sense at the time
@loboheeler
2 жыл бұрын
Audie Murphy was an experienced rifleman before going into the US Army. He was only 5'-5", so likely traded an issued M1 Rifle for an M1 Carbine for easier handling. You could easily swap out small arms in the field in WW2, and many opted for the Carbine. The Germans liked them too when some were captured.
@billquillin1952
2 жыл бұрын
Actually, that is a misinterpretation of the Rules of War that determined bullet design. Ball vs hollow point.
@americanpatriotbill
2 жыл бұрын
You can carry twice the amount of 5.56 over 308 or 30-06....and still kill!!
@johnknouse8846
2 жыл бұрын
I really think this myth came from soldiers in Vietnam who witnessed how the cartridge had a tendency to tumble when it hit a body. My dad (half jokingly) would say, you could shoot them in the chest, and the bullet would come out their ass!
@TerminalM193
2 жыл бұрын
LMAO! I swear, my pap who served in Vietnam literature says the EXACT same thing!
@LuvBorderCollies
2 жыл бұрын
Bullets do strange things when they hit stuff. Sometimes its fairly predictable but never say never or always. One case I investigated the bullet spiraled around a tibia from knee to ankle. There's lots more weird unpredictable bullet stories but that's all for now.
@ThePatriotParadox
2 жыл бұрын
So.... With what we know, does anyone feel like an AR-15 is inadequate for war?
@yishaihalpin1121
2 жыл бұрын
I mean Rittenhouse fired three shots and killed two and vaporized another guys bicep. So it seems like it does more than just wound.
@HistoryOnTheLoose
2 жыл бұрын
This was developed right about the same time as the knife that wasn't designed to stab or cut.......
@MrGray-dx8sw
2 жыл бұрын
Regardless of the design to do 1 are the other I wouldn't want to get hit with that round. I'm willing to say folks that has been hit with it would agree they wouldn't want another one.
@felsinferguson1125
2 жыл бұрын
Just ask Kyle's "buddy", Mr. No-bicep, how willing he's going to be to step in front of one again... (Too bad it wasn't a head or chest shot... could have saved some time listening to a moron - Oh well... Mighty hard to blame Kyle for missing the kill-shot in a situation like that)
@TerminalM193
2 жыл бұрын
Good ol Kyle Rittenhouse made that one dudes arm practically evaporate.
@herbderbler1585
2 жыл бұрын
@@TerminalM193 I came here to make that same point. Kyle demonstrated the value of 5.56.
@papiparsons9045
2 жыл бұрын
If it's supposed to be lethal, why do they sell .556 in the "less than lethal" ammo section of my gun store? 😅😂
@svaz2006
2 жыл бұрын
That's been a myth since at least the 90's when I heard it in service. My SGT told me that by wounding, rather than killing, it would take two more soldiers off the battlefield to help their buddy get to the medics. I was like, "Sarge, you ever study the Russians in WW-II? They give a d*mn if their soldiers are wounded on the battlefield, they've got bodies to throw at us!" That was another 30 push-ups for yours' truly, but it was satisfying. :D
@tc6818
2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like Steve and Caleb should do a collaboration with Paul Harrell and his meat target.
@akaruchoose2693
2 жыл бұрын
Hammers were designed to pound nails. Doesn't mean you can't cave in someone's skull with one.
@charlesdavis3923
2 жыл бұрын
We all know it'll make a bicep explode, my guess is it's probably a deadly round
@kinzieconrad105
2 жыл бұрын
So long story short it was designed to work around the Geneva convention ban on expanding bullets!
@xiongfa2152
2 жыл бұрын
fwiw, it's definitely in the 'folklore' out of Vietnam. My father served 2 years there and he is the one that told me it was 'designed to wound' and had other anecdotes about the round tumbling and 'crawling' up the inside of someone's leg after it entered. I'm not saying it's true or not...but that is what he believed as a veteran.
@oneofthoseguys2019
2 жыл бұрын
Just like a stereotype why bother mentioning if it's not at least somewhat true?
@MAGAMAN
2 жыл бұрын
@@oneofthoseguys2019 All stereotypes are based on Truth.
@chad9166
2 жыл бұрын
@@MAGAMAN this one is just fudd lore tho
@bikerbernie821
2 жыл бұрын
What about that they were looking for a balance of lethality and smaller and lighter so you could carry more... And be less likely to be caught with your pants down so to speak
@YukarisGearReviews
2 жыл бұрын
To add to your commentary: There IS ZERO OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION/DOCTRINE to support the idea that 5.56 NATO or 223 Rem was meant to "wound" an enemy. If you believe a rifle round with 1200 ft lbs of muzzle energy was intentionally designed to wound an enemy, you would not carry that .45 ACP sidearm. With 350-400 ft lbs of energy.
@lon242
2 жыл бұрын
2:57 Caleb caught off guard by Steve's sarcasm, that was pretty savage alright 👌
@fudgepie1
2 жыл бұрын
Original 5.56mm cartridge was a 55gr bullet fired from a 1:12" twist rate barrel which was sufficient to stabilise it in flight but not after impact. All spitzer shaped bullets will start to tumble on impact because the back is heavier and starts to overtake the lighter tip. At impact velocities greater than 2500ft/s catastrophic jacket failure occurs along the cannelure and the bullet fragments. This doesn't happen with a 1:9 or faster twist barrel which tend to overstabilise the bullet. This accounted for the reputation for lethality and severe wounding of 5.56mm bullets FMJ bullets during the Vietnam war. 55gr FMJ bullets fired from my mini14 tend to penetrate without tumbling and breaking up whereas when fired from Galils and R4s, they show the classic jacket failure at impact velocities above 25oo ft/s and start showing an oscillating keyhole wound channel below 2400ft/s. Definitely not designed to only wound.
@maynardcarmer3148
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, so while the cartridge may not have been designed to wound, the combination of bullet design and twist rate produced that effect.
@chrissewell1608
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, both rounds are lethal... But the military generally uses Full Metal Jacket rounds. Which punch holes (wounding) versus an expanding hollow point bullet, designed to do maximum tissue damage, and more lethal, upon impact! Yes, I have harvested deer with my .223 (Hollow Point)! But... its bullet design is for combat! {And thanks guys, for picking up our previous conversation, and running with it, here! 👍🏼😉}
@ericstites9470
2 жыл бұрын
After a tour in Iraq, I can say that whether or not the 5.56 was designed to wound, it is certainly capable of more than just wounding.
@badmoon7549
2 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry, but the thought of someone, anyone specifically designing a round, bullet, whatever to simply wound is just asinine. Where do people come up with this kind of ignorance anyway? I think it came from the fact that there was some bullet tumbling happening and that was creating some nasty wounds, but that was a bullet/barrel twist thing. The bullet wasn't being stabilized very well. I totally agree with Steve, 30/06 will do the job. YEAH, and Caleb still has his killer hair and it will wound you if you look at it too close. LOL...
@cgoins1993
2 жыл бұрын
It’s Fuddlore
@loquat44-40
2 жыл бұрын
I can not speak to what the intentions were of the designers of the 5.56 cartridge. It was initially used in a barrel with as slow a twist that would still allow acceptable accuracy. The original .222 cartridge was modified to the 5.56 resulting a cartridge that can propel 55 grain FMJ bullets to about 3200 fps in a 20 inch barrel. The bullets tend to keyhole and fragment in flesh. At closer ranges this round makes a devastating wound on humans after it travels through sufficient tissue to destabilize. It is about as destructive in wounding capacity as a military FMJ bullet can be. Victims of mass shootings shot at close range in the torso have very serious and often fatal wounds from 5.56 projectiles. The recoil in a properly gassed 5.56 rifle is very light and this was one of the goals I am sure and also the rifle can be made lighter and ammo load out that be carried contains more rounds. Many gel tests on the internet show what it can do. For hunting I would choose a bolt action in a larger round. For combat I would strongly consider the 5.56 round as being very good. For hunting If I have nothing else, I would use it with the proper hunting bullets on game under 250 lbs. It was designed to kill people and so it works well on game that are about the size humans. Not for big bears, elk, moose, or bison.
@LuvBorderCollies
2 жыл бұрын
The Remington .222 and .222 Magnum gave years of insight into behavior of light .224 diameter bullets in live flesh. The nasty wounds and blown up prairie dogs gives a good idea what'll happen to your arms, legs or torso/innards if you get hit.
@stevenmike1878
2 жыл бұрын
the phrase "was designed for wounding" should be replace with "was designed to cause hydro-static hemorrhaging" the word "wound" downplays what the round actually does.
@donaldhollingsworth3875
2 жыл бұрын
I believe that the 5.56/.223 was also designed so each solider or Marine could carry more ammunition since the 7.62mm round for the M14 weighed so much more than the 5.56/.223 round. You also have to consider that the M16A1 was designed to put as many rounds down range as quickly as possible on full auto mode which was a waste of ammunition. If I remember this correctly (& anyone please correct me if I am wrong) I read an article that examined the amount of rounds fired from rifles & not machine guns per kill from WWII, Korea, & Vietnam. And it said that the estimated rounds fired per kill in WWII & Korea was 1 in 2,500 while in Vietnam it was 1 in 25,000 rounds. When I was in the Marine Corps & when we got into a fire fight, we had 1 or 2 Marines in our squad or company that all they did was to reload magazines so our unit could continue engaging the enemy. I had no idea of this concept since I was in artillery until I was on temporary duty with an infantry unit doing counter insurgent operations in Honduras & Nigeriana.
@jstpsgthru
2 жыл бұрын
M16s were unrestricted auto, when I served (70-71,) but I think they reconfigured them to fire 3 round bursts, because of the problem you mentioned.
@whereswaldo6085
2 жыл бұрын
I think you are correct. This is why I believe the Rare Breed Forced Reset Trigger (and others) is more of a novelty rather than a practical item. Not to mention magazine dumps with a FRT is gonna get expensive very quickly. Making shots count when you need to and conserving ammo seems to me to be the best way to go. I could be wrong but it is my opinion and mine alone.
@kirkmooneyham
2 жыл бұрын
@@whereswaldo6085, I read an account of the Battle of Mogadishu. Can't remember if the particular story was one of the Army Rangers or an Air Force Special Operator, but either way, the guy stated he used his rifle on semi-auto most of the time, putting a round through each window, doorway, or hole in a building to keep the enemy's heads down, and that he rarely used the burst mode on his rifle because of how much ammo it would have wasted.
@jerroldkazynski5480
2 жыл бұрын
In my Basic Training (early '71), I recall an Infantry Officer relating a large number of rounds and about 90 minutes on average from a first contact until regaining order. A patrol unit was fired upon, most dropped and rolled and fired away as those in your sight or hearing were doing. HS buddies who returned from military service in Vietnam had pretty intense stories of their actions in the late 60s there.
@macriggland6526
2 жыл бұрын
the 556 was designed as a work around to the geneva convention: to do as much damage as possible without breaking the technical laws about expanding bullets.
@BuckyTJones
2 жыл бұрын
The 5.56 55grn cartridge with the 1/12 twist rate barrel would create massive wounds, Vietnam era. The wounds were dubbed "inhumane" so came the other extreme of the worthless 62grn (green tip) which would punch a nice clean little hole right through the target. I guess calling it "worthless" is a little harsh but not as effective. Vietnam the M16 went from the "Mattel 16 to the Meat Axe. Im done
@jamesbullock3259
2 жыл бұрын
Punching holes kills period
@MacCready_
2 жыл бұрын
"Designed to wound" is right up there with "over stabilized" when it comes to 5.56 misconceptions.
@East_Coast_Toasty_Boy
2 жыл бұрын
Wound vs kill depends on shot placement, not the round.
@benjimenfranklin7650
2 жыл бұрын
As previous studies concluded, a truly lethal maximum effective range for an M885, 5.56 mm NATO projectile is about 200 to 250 meters (218- 273 yards). Therefore, because half of our firefights occur well beyond 300 meters, our weapons are marginally effective.Aug 31, 2012
@ftdefiance1
2 жыл бұрын
Recall however the rifle was fielded during Vietnam. Engagement distances in the Mekong Delta will differ from the Fulda Gap or the mountains of Afghanistan.
@TheDiameter
2 жыл бұрын
@@ftdefiance1 So it was marginally more effective in the environment it was originally fielded in?
@ftdefiance1
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheDiameter more than marginal don't forget the .55 grain round was noticably faster both because the round was lighter and the A1 rifle has a 20 inch barrel. As I recall engagement distances were on average fifty to 150 yard's rounds were faster and less stable. The cartridge is extremely lethal inside it's original envelope.
@michaell397
2 жыл бұрын
But again, it was a varmint round long before it was slightly changed for military use.
@bearpitt
2 жыл бұрын
These are old wives tales. Every bullet is designed to kill, one exception is a wad cutter. Some just do it better than others.
@andyd2960
2 жыл бұрын
Oddly enough, wad cutters are carried for self defense from time to time. I can't remember what the rationale was, I just remember hearing that there was some supposed benefit to wad cutters in self defense.
@toofar7493
2 жыл бұрын
I would disagree with the idea that the 5.56 only wounds. Because of it's high speed and lightness it has a higher probability of creating a large exit wound, which means a higher likely hood of bleeding out (meaning you're more likely to die). Unlike a 30 cal round which will just cause a through and through wound (if no bones are hit) a 5.56 will cause grave damage no matter where it hits. This is the main reason why I've been told by hunters that 5.56 isn't a good hunting round, because it will destroy a lot of good meat.
@AZTrigger
2 жыл бұрын
This question to me comes down the the firing squad test: Would you issue a firing squad 5.56 caliber rifles or something bigger? The answer is pretty simple to me...
@funkla65
2 жыл бұрын
The only excuse for 223 on big game is that it's your only rifle. And frankly, if deer is on the menu, a 223 shouldn't be your only rifle. You can buy a serviceable 243 or Creedmoor for less than the junkiest AR.
@woodrowcall3158
2 жыл бұрын
Do one on the difference between reflective red dot sights (I.E. Aimpoint CompM4, Holosun’s sights, etc.) and holographic weapon sights (EOTech HWS, Vortex UH-1 “Huey”)
@austinhuber3131
2 жыл бұрын
Another stupid myth from people who don't understand anything about ballistics. The 556 is incredibly deadly, leaves an enormous cavitation due to its speed and very little to its weight. In fact, a 55 grain 556 going around 3000 fps leaves a wound comparable to that of a 125 grain 762*39 going 2500 fps.
@austinhuber3131
2 жыл бұрын
"Designed to wound" that's against the Geneva convention, why would Nato designate such a cartridge. Also, there's not a bullet designed to tumble, tumbling is evident of loss of flight stability due to loss of force, and inevitably leads to a diminished wound channel and penetration depth, not increased.
@roykiefer7713
2 жыл бұрын
For the US military to have purposefully designed the M193/5.56x45 projectile’s terminal ballistics to wound horrifically, would violate several “laws of ground warfare.” And it was NOT so designed. That the M193 projectile often - but not always - did so, was simply a fortuitous accident.
@kinzieconrad105
2 жыл бұрын
Cause the real reason is more nefarious. It’s a ban work around!
@roykiefer7713
2 жыл бұрын
@@kinzieconrad105 Proof? Wild assertion with a fragment of substantiation.
@bmponder1
2 жыл бұрын
Especially with modern ammunition..223/5.56 is a beast even at distance.
@bryanschwertner3585
2 жыл бұрын
This all brings me back to Law Enforcement changing from .38 to 9mm to .40S&W. The term they was “….one shot stop.”
@oldschoolnewschool6270
2 жыл бұрын
Some of us know that there is not one single pistol caliber that is a “one shot stop”. Must have been a lawyer or bean counter that came up with that.
@bryanschwertner3585
2 жыл бұрын
One shot stop was an FBI term. Tons of officer involved shootings provided the data. So I guess it was good. But I was present on one where the .40 did good, not great. Not sure a handgun round of any other caliber could have done better though.
@chassoto
2 жыл бұрын
All ammo was designed to wound my wallet...
@mattfleming86
2 жыл бұрын
You missed a great opportunity to shout out Arfcom Andrew and an example gel test! Out of a 20" barrel in reasonable engagement distances, absolutely not! M193 is a fantastic round up to medium ranges. I'd say that some of the lore came from hits beyond 200/300 y/m. 2500fps seems to be the borderline where the round yaws and tumbles instead of fragmenting depending on manufacturer. Inside the fragmentation window, it is devastating. Beyond that, the yaw is less impressive but still pretty effective. At long ranges you get those pencil through effects where "it looks like they got hit by a 22" because they pretty much did. When using 77gr OTM or a bonded bullet (fusion/gold dot) the velocity thrrshold is much much lower (and with 77gr you bleed velocity much slower) so you can add substantial range to above estimates. 200 yards and in good old m193 is still a force to be reckoned with.
@grizzlystiks
2 жыл бұрын
Basically any round is designed to kill
@johnhammered3321
2 жыл бұрын
It was replacing the M-1 which was to heavy and ammo also hard to carry. Smaller and lighter. But look how many rounds were expelled to kill the enemy in Vietnam. Statistics shows that over a ten year period 20,000 rds per enemy death! Rounds were flying everywhere!😲
@bluetrue6062
2 жыл бұрын
19,999 misses versus one hit.😁
@lizzardlife
2 жыл бұрын
I remember them teaching me this in basic training. Yes it's a lethal round, but FMJ is less lethal compared to hollow points, a requirement of NATO in basic they were talking about talking the enemy out of the fight.
@ChucksSEADnDEAD
2 жыл бұрын
At fragmentation velocities, 5.56 Is as bad if not worse than hollow points.
@ChucksSEADnDEAD
2 жыл бұрын
@Vintage Hardware Almost any rifle can? There's hollow points manufactured for nearly every caliber.
@Game-The-System
2 жыл бұрын
Think you mean "Hague convention."
@CaveWyatt
2 жыл бұрын
I’m not disputing. I do remember the yaw/wounding aspect being discussed in Popular Mechanics or Mechanics Illustrated in the mid-60’s, when I was in Jr. High. This was not all that long after the M-16 was first issued so the wounding effect must have been noticeable early on. Unintended benefit?
@Marcus2750-u1t
2 жыл бұрын
5.56 is Plenty
@algoneby
2 жыл бұрын
My research says : One outing for shooting, I brought a zucchini to shoot as a target for fun. I backed it with a political yard sign. The yard sign was the I guess plastic kind of corrugated type thing. Two different people, with two different AR-15 rifles, completely different ammo, both shooting the zucchini. Didn't pay much mind to anything while out shooting. Upon inspection of the backing once I got home, each and every shot that went through the zucchini, and then passing through the backing, the holes were exactly side ways. All of them. Once the bullet went through the zucchini, they all turned sideways. Perfect hole of a sideways bullet each time. No variation.
@oscarwilfredodiazcruz
2 жыл бұрын
In the frontier, between Honduras and Nicaragua, many people use to say during the years of the war: "Show me one survivor of that diabolic tiny cartridge (.223 / 5.56)... No one survive! On the other hand, the Ak (7.62 x 39mm) is less evil, there are a lot of survivors. Yes, without some limbs or another damage, but alive..."
@wymonwatson1309
2 жыл бұрын
Thousands of dead enemy combatants have a different opinion, in Vietnam nearly any wound from a 5.56 proved fatal either from the damage it caused, or the resulting infection.
@alexfreund9460
2 жыл бұрын
When a medic is helping someone who's been shot by 5.56, they first say "don't worry, this round is designed to wound, not kill!"
@blackbird_actual
2 жыл бұрын
The first report on the 5.56's effectiveness to come back from Vietnam was part of Project AGILE and was written using information gained by US military advisors who had used Colt AR-15 rifles in combat alongside the South Vietnamese. In the report, much was made of the round's ability to produce very large, effective wounds on enemy soldiers and its ability to immediately dispatch them. Here is an excerpt from the Project AGILE report on the AR-15: "(2.) (C) "On 9 June a Ranger Platoon from the 40th Inf Regt was given the mission of ambushing an estimated VC Company. The details are as follows: a. Number of VC killed: 5 b. Number of AR-15's employed: 5 c. Range of engagement: 30-100 meters d. Type wounds: 1. Back wound, which caused the thoracic cavity to explode. 2. Stomach wound, which caused the abdominal cavity to explode. 3. Buttock wound, which destroyed all tissue of both buttocks. 4. Chest wound from right to left, destroyed the thoracic cavity. 5. Heel wound, the projectile entered the bottom of the right foot causing the leg to split from the foot to the hip. These deaths were inflicted by the AR-15 and all were instantaneous except the buttock wound. He lived approximately five minutes." Now, if the round was designed to wound, these would be most unsatisfactory results indeed, but obviously that was not the case - the round, like any other military cartridge, was designed to inflict the most damage to the target possible within the limitations of military projectile design. From the excerpt above, I would say that, at least in its tested configuration of a 55gr projectile fired from a 20" barrel at a velocity of ~3,200fps, it definitely doesn't fit the bill for a round designed only to wound...
@macriggland6526
2 жыл бұрын
like any other military cartridge? mmmmm.... not sure about that. the soviets didn't put the 5.45 into service because it is more accurate or something. they did it because nobody in the international community addressed the obvious: USA designed a bullet specifically to do as much damage as possible without technically being illegal. this was the intended result all along. somebody at the CIA had a good laugh when this report AGILE was made.
@blackbird_actual
2 жыл бұрын
@@macriggland6526 I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Any military cartridge design is the result of compromises. If you need a round that is light and compact while still remaining deadly, the 5.56 fits the bill pretty well. That was the whole point of the AR-15 - it was lightweight and relatively compact. The 7.62 NATO hits very hard and is just as likely to put someone down quickly, but its mechanism of wounding is different to that of the 5.56 because of its size and composition. Any military projectile is going to be designed "to do as much damage as possible", but the way that damage is inflicted can vary from round to round. A small diameter round won't punch big holes in someone, but it will fragment and tumble if you design it properly and propel it fast enough. Again, the 5.56's design is a compromise of factors, like any other round - it's terminal performance is the result of making due with a smaller, no expanding projectile by ramping the velocity way up.
@macriggland6526
2 жыл бұрын
@@blackbird_actual lmfao sure thing bro
@blackbird_actual
2 жыл бұрын
@@macriggland6526 Why did you delete your first comment lol
@macriggland6526
2 жыл бұрын
@@blackbird_actual I didn't.
@keayrhyasen1154
2 жыл бұрын
1981... after basic at Lackland, i'm out at Camp Bullis doing my tech training and this topic was explained just as Caleb said... for every one you wound, it takes 1-2 others to take them off the battlefield thus, it's a Force Reducer. in the '80s, there were still stories floating around the M-16/5.56 was too light of a round to use in the jungle and the M-14 should have been used instead. bottom line it was weight reduction for the common soldier. one other aspect most people don't talk about is the psychological effect the 5.56mm round has on troop moral. i always told the guys on my fire teams that i would rather be shot by an AK-47 than another M-16. the hole going out the back would be WAY smaller ; )
@widehotep9257
2 жыл бұрын
Seeing what 5.56 did to the arm of Gaige Grosskreutz convinced me it is a deadly round.
@BanjoZZZ
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaa, poor little Gaige... He brought a hippie to a gunfight
@lon242
2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Spicy Bicep himself 💥💪
@762x69
2 жыл бұрын
V A P O R I Z E D
@yechezkelmendoza5698
2 жыл бұрын
@@BanjoZZZ It just shows how ignorant this statement is "Seeeing what 5.56 did to the arm of Gaige Grosskreutz convinced me it is a deadly round". The Point target on a pistol is significantly less than that of a .223 going through a 1/6 - 1/12 barrel after the hammer strikes the firing pin. A 9mm at close range can also penetrate a victim and the projectile can bounce around as well. Trying to compare the a 5.56 from a rifle to some dangerous round like pistols don't have this capability is just ignorance.
@christopherrobin8134
2 жыл бұрын
The fudd lore just never ends
@homersimpson6969
2 жыл бұрын
The wounding portion of the cartridge (tumbling) was an Unintended consequence of the design. It kills, it wounds... best of both worlds.
@robn1116
2 жыл бұрын
A belt fed m249 is made to wound in bursts of 10 to 20 rounds if that is the case🤣
@joebobgrizzler9963
2 жыл бұрын
...and if you lean on it for a spell.. your tracers can set cars and stuff on fire...
@jimhanty8149
2 жыл бұрын
I have heard that same story about the AK round…I tend to doubt either version of the same tale…
@dudebroski9460
2 жыл бұрын
i recently read black hawk down, they were using the green tip ammo. the 55 grn m193 ammo actually rips at the cannular and fragments where the green tips where going strait thru with less than stelar results. at one point one of the d boys gets why another one carries the old heavy m14. it really matters what bullet under what circumstance you are talking about. was a light armor peircing round aimed at unarmored skinny solamis designed to wound? no, it was misused and that was the outcome.
@andrewphelps9716
11 ай бұрын
223 is A HUNTING ROUND. That predates the ar15 platform. 556 is the military "version".
@brianvannorman1465
2 жыл бұрын
I would like you to explore the 5.45×39mm, 7N6(I think?). Does it tumble when it hits flesh?
@joshm3484
2 жыл бұрын
Any long, thin bullet at sufficient velocity will tumble in flesh. Because most of the mass of the bullet is far from the tip of the bullet, that mass will continue trying to travel at whatever velocity it's going, even as the tip of the bullet dramatically slows when hitting something. Within close to moderate range, the 5.56 will likely be going fast enough that it will yaw then fragment along the cannelure, contributing to its lethality. The Russians enhanced the yawing effect by leaving a large portion of the tip of the 5.45x39 hollow. Because the thin copper jacket is enclosed, it's not technically a hollow point, but by leaving an air pocket at and lightening the tip, more mass is concentrated further back in the bullet, and the tip deforms more readily, making the 5.45x39 yaw more rapidly than it would if it was solid lead internally, and more rapidly than 5.56x45. Although 5.45x39 usually lacks a cannelure and won't fragment as readily as 5.56x45, any bullet traveling through flesh sideways, or tumbling, will create a larger wound cavity than one going tip first the entire way, assuming non-expanding FMJ bullets. So yes, Russian surplus and similarly constructed 5.45x39 tumbles (or at least yaws) very reliably, though lethality vs 5.56x45 is debatable.
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