Hey fellow Harpaman :D It's always nice to see more and more people building their own instrument. I did so in February this year and I might have some tips for you (I researched a ton beforehand about the construction of bowed instruments, which really really helped a ton) Measurements: I built a bass Tagelharpa too, so these measurements should be more or less comparable. Overall: Length: 105 cm, width: 21 cm, height: 9 cm Soundboard/Back: length: 54 cm, width: 21 cm, height: 0,5 cm Scale (bridge to tuning pegs): 70 cm (absolute maximum if you're using horse hair for strings) At first it might seem, that this is quite a chunky boi, but the lower your frequencies, the bigger the sound box should be (as in every "modern" bowed instrument). It really makes a huge difference. So I tried to make the sound box as big as possible with the material I had, at least in length and width. 9 cm in height is still comfortably playable, but i wouldn't recommend going above 10 cm at max. Wood: First of all: Everything should be dried at least several years, as the last thing you want are cracks. I definetly recommend searching for someone who sells raw soundboards for guitars (spruce). For the soundboard it is quite important to use rather soft wood, as sound can travel easier through it. They have roughly the measurements needed (typically they come in pairs of two, but you could ask, if you could order just one soundboard piece, often they have something lying around). For the back I would say hardwood (I used ash, but maple is fine as well), as it has to withstand the pressure of the soundpost, that is being pushed by the tension of the strings (more on that later). The back can also be bought from a "soundboard retailer" and they aren't as expensive as you might think (If I remember correctly I paid roghly 40 Euros for soundboard and back). However, it is an investment totally worth it. For the frame I also recommend using hard wood like maple. It's important, that at least the soundboard and the back have no knotholes (Best case: no part has any) as they tend to crack and produce a rattling sound. Don't use screws ever again, that hurt so much :D Simple wood glue will do the job. I don't know, why the plank you made the soundboard of is the size of the whole instrument. Is it for aesthetic reasons? Because it isn't necessary and would be much easier, if it was just the size of the sound box. Using a Dremel was the right choice. I used one myself for the soundholes which worked out quite well. I did a sort of celtic knot pattern with multiple smaller holes between the ribbons of the pattern. Soundpost: As you mentioned it’s purpose is to help the sound travel from soundboard to back. However, the other very important function is to prevent the soundboard (which, as I said, should be made out of soft wood like spruce) from cracking and denting because of the pressure the bridge enforces through the string tension. You actually didn’t glue the soundpost in, as is tradition, but as far as I can tell it doesn’t make that huge of a difference. Just a tiny bit on the end that is glued to the back should be fine and prevents loosening over time. Also the soundpost should be made out of soft wood (sound travel bla bla bla) and not too thick (I used roundwood of 1 cm in diameter) because of sound as well (same thing as with the soundboard). Bass bar: I don’t know, if you’ve heard of this piece but surprisingly it really makes a difference. The bass bar is a long and thin piece of soft wood, that is glued to the inside of the soundboard. It’s positioned right under the bass side of the bridge (right where the lowest string is going to be) and follows the direction of said string. I did one of roughly 40 cm in length and 1 or 1,5 cm in width. I sanded it to a sort of flat brace kinda form (between 2 and 1 cm), inspired by the ones used in violas and cellos. This thing really works. Apparently it helps to amplify the lower frequencies, which can be heard without playing my Tagelharpa. If I tap at the „low“ side of the soundboard it really does sound lower there. I don’t know how, but this thing does the job. Bridge: I also didn’t build a bridge myself, however I chose a viola bridge, as it seemed to fit better for my taste. I also think, putting the strings closer together right at the bridge makes playing easier, as you don’t have to be as precise with the bow angle, so a smaller bridge might do the job at least as good. Also having the strings closer together at the tailpiece prevents detuning the strings (more on that later). For sanding it flat I chose a belt sander, that I attached upside down to the table. It creates a really flat surface and you can get quite precise with it. It is actually important to not glue the bridge in place, as it is supposed to move, to transfer the vibrations of the strings. It sort of „wiggles“ left and right. Tailpiece: I recommend a tailpece that isnt as wide as yours, because as soon as you tune the 1st string, you automatically detune the 3rd. That does happen too, if the strings are closer, but to a much smaller degree. I did mine 15 cm in lenght and 5 in width. I also opted for violin fine tuners and viola tuning pegs, but that is more of a personal taste, your tuners should work as well (although i don’t know if horsehair could work). For the string i used 3 hemp strings, which I braided together. It actually works really well and looks natural. Strings: Try to make some horsehair strings, you can find the hair on amazon for less than 20 bucks. I used 24 hair for the high string (D), 34 for the middle one (A) and 48 for the low one (D, one octave below). Generally speaking: Octave above or below means halve or double the amount of hairs used, and for the tones inbetween just look at how many semitones there are to the note above or below and choose the right amount accordingly. There is a tutorial on youtube on how to make them, which helped me quite a lot I just can’t remember who uploaded it. If you don’t want to use horsehair strings, at least try nylon strings, they are easier to use and widely available. But please no metal strings, it kinda kills the soul of the instrument. Man, that was way to long :D I hope I could provide some helpful information. Greetings from Germany
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Hey fellow builder! Thanks so much for all those helpful tips. I'm going to go through them and ask a few questions + a few responses if you don't mind :) 1. The depth thing-- i had that same sneaking suspicion about better tone with a bigger body (I was thinking of cellos and double basses). I'm glad you confirmed it! I think I will do that for the next one if there is a next :D2. Wood: So basically most western "tone woods" (I put it in quotes because there is some debate about this according to my research) are incredibly hard to get here and VERY expensive. You said 40 euros right? Imagine triple or quadruple here... Import is expensive and also, there's TONS of rainforest woods with similar density and tone that I can use... the question is finding the right ones. I've talked to a few Thai guys here and I'm getting some input from them. Teakwood apparently has a nice and unique tone in instruments (also expensive, but locally available and prices are similar to what you mentioned)... the only problem is they don't really sell wide planks, so I'd have to glue 2 planks together... According to a luthier friend of mine this shouldn't be a huge issue, it's just a bit less aesthetically pleasing. Oh btw, I have looked into getting soundboard wood from China but... I've heard sometimes it isn't the wood they claim it is and I also have environmental concerns there ;) 3. Sound post out of soft wood! Interesting and good to know! Thanks. 4. Bass bar: Also GREAT to know, thanks for that! Can you show me a link / photo of where I can see one and how it is placed, etc? 5. Bridge: Ya-- I knew about this after putting it all down-- silly me. Oh well, live and learn!6. Tail piece-- again super helpful to know, thanks for that! I've noticed de-tuning happened a lot at the beginning-- it is stabilized now.. I think in the future I will just purchase them online... they're cheaply available here for cellos and voilas. 7. Tuners: I'm a guitarist and I love the simplicity of those tuners and there's now so many kinds as well (antique looking, copper, gold, silver, black, etc), so I'll probably stick with them. As you said, it's a matter of aesthetic and preference. If I ever do a build of a nyckelharpa or something, then I'd go for traditional tuners (maybe, haha).8. You other players are slowly convincing me of the horse hair strings.. my issue with them-- most videos I found I didn't like the sound (at all) , but I DO like the sound in Danheim's music... hmm, maybe, something to think on at least... 2 strings on there now actually are nylon + metal mixed (I think one is steel core though). My original plan was to use nylgut strings, but they ended up too short :( Thanks again for all the input! Super insightful!
@FuckingMushroom93
3 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan 1. Teak or Mohagony are fine as well I think. They both grow quite evenly, so knotholes shouldn’t be a problem. Glueing them together is the technique that is always done in acoustic guitars (bookmatched), so that should work as well. However, you just need a plank of maybe 20 cm in width. That seems to be quite a usual measurement for wood planks so it’s kinda odd that you don’t have access to that. 2. For the bass bar just image search „bass bar cello“ or something like that. In theory the measurements and placement are rather difficult, as a professional would might tell you, but every violin maker seems to alter the theory in their personal preference so there seems to be room for improvisation. I measured the future placement of the bridge and marked the position on the inside of the soon to be soundboard. The middle of the bass bar should sit right under the foot of the lower side of the brigde. Then I just tilted the bass bar slightly, so it more or less follows the lowest string in a parallel line and glued it in place. It’s probably not the best result I could have achieved, but it gets the job done, so I’m happy with that. 3. making the tailpiece wasn’t too difficult, but a standard viola or maybe even cello tailpiece should work as well, at least something to try out. 4. Man a nyckelharpa? That is something I wouldn’t try in the next years :D I do own a hurdy gurdy, so similar enough to think: Yeah working the correct placements for the keys is going to be horrible xD But why not, you never know. 5. String tone is personal preference of course, even if I don’t get, why you don’t like the sound of horse hair :D Something I saw multiple times were strings made out of fishing line. It’s the same material that nylon strings are made out of and come in various thicknesses. Also the lenght is completely up to you, so even better than horse hair in that regard. However I don’t know, if you are supposed to twist multiple fishing lines to get a string or not. I chose horse hair quite early in the process and didn’t research in regards to fishing line. But I think there should be multiple videos on youtube of fellow builders talking about this topic. However, please get rid of the metal strings, or are they really that pleasing to your ears? Because I can’t stand the tone at all :D
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
@@FuckingMushroom93 Awesome. 1. Yes, I can get teak easily, mahogany not so much yet, but who knows a little searching might turn it up. Yea, funny huh but 20 cm wide teak is tricky to find. Usually you find 10 or 15. Anyways, gluing together could totally work and I have found other local hardwoods (it'd be a bit of a tone experiment, but hey why not) that DO come in wider measurements--- now the trick is getting them to plane it for me ;) Planing it myself takes TOOOO LONG! 2. Cool, will look it up! 3. Yea! 4. Hahaha, we're talking in the future when I'm a more confident instrument builder ;) 5. I actually love the cello strings, hehehe!
@FuckingMushroom93
3 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan Hmm I would go with the smaller teak planks and glue them together with the bookmatched method. If you don't know how to do it, this is how I have seen it: It's one piece of wood that gets cut through the middle so that you have two evenly thick parts that have a matching grain structure. You then lay them flat side by side as close as you can (its important that there are no gaps between the two boards) and put strong tape over the full length of the connection. Then turn around, set it up like a tent and pour wood glue between the two pieces. Lay it down again (The surface needs to be flat of course), apply tape from this side as well and put something heavy and flat that is at least as big as the planks on top. The glue won't stick to the tape too strong so it should be removable with relative ease. It's the same method that's used in acoustic guitars as i said so it already proved to be functional. I'm sure that there are tutorials online, I mean there are tutorials for everything nowadays :D Planing and cutting however is crucial, so it might not work if the guy you order it from doesn't have the skill or machinery (a quality bandsaw is necessary) to do it properly :/ Anyway, I hope I could help you or at least give some new impressions on this craftsmanship. I'm an amateur myself, but an unhealthy amount of research helped me to make something that I'm quite satisfied with and it's always fun to talk to people that did the same and share some experiences and knowledge :) I would really like to see, what your next Tagelharpa is going to look and most importantly sound like. ;)
@Sky-Warden
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing! I am currently building my bass Tagelharpa! Unfortunately, my two piece body is made of Oak Plywood. But I will be using Spruce as the soundboard, horse hair, bass trim, and sound post as well. But I can’t figure out how thick the backboard should be.
@barefootarts737
2 жыл бұрын
You have a straightforward and unpretentious presentation here. Thank you for that. KZitem is an interesting place. Everyone has their 2cents. And the ‘kinder’ side of the spectrum is hard to be in touch with in a digital and information-rich environment. But we should try anyway.
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Glad it was of use to you 😁appreciate your comment ❤️
@barefootarts737
2 жыл бұрын
It takes a lot of patience to film all of this process. Personally I couldn’t do it. Talking or playing is easier. But this video takes the intimidation right out. It’s been said ‘teaching is showing’.
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
@@barefootarts737 thank you very much! It was indeed quite a long process hahaha, but I've enjoyed reading comments from people who found it useful like yourself 😊
@jcmusc
3 ай бұрын
Rotary tools and an oscillating multi tool are the 2 best multitasking tools everyone should have 👍
@dekoningtan
3 ай бұрын
Seriously have gotten ridiculously good use out of that dremel!
@ManfredWilling-or7cq
5 ай бұрын
Well done !
@dekoningtan
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment and say that😊 really appreciate it!
@samaeldrakul4191
3 ай бұрын
beautiful sound m8 nice work 🎉
@dekoningtan
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! I was quite pleased with how it turned out :)
@Dorchess
3 жыл бұрын
I love how this man will just go through all the exploration and research necessary to actually create these instruments himself!
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Haha, thanks! There's plenty of resources out there, so why not right?
@johannadekoning5585
3 жыл бұрын
Long video but interesting to see the development of your instrument.
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
@@johannadekoning5585 Indeed a long video, haha! The longest I've ever done.
@barefootarts737
2 жыл бұрын
The research is the easy part. Building one is more significant than the research I think. Lots of people over-research in this age, and do nothing with the information.
@jcmusc
Ай бұрын
I made mine a bit too thick too....but rather than sanding it, I split it in half. I can technically build a second from all the split wood. I have a 30 second update on my channel. You can see where i'm at. I finally glued the front.
@dekoningtan
Ай бұрын
@@jcmusc good thinking! If I'd had a way to cut my plank in half I definitely would have done it.
@jcmusc
Ай бұрын
@@dekoningtan such a pain in the ass I just put on the biggest blade my table saw could hold at maximum extension. Cut it down the middle flip it over cut it down the middle again and the board fell apart. I wouldn't recommend it but if you don't have a bandsaw there's ways around it.
@billybiggs6766
2 жыл бұрын
Got into instrument making several years back and yep I made MANY mistakes. But hey we learn from them and do better next time. Love that you showed all of the build and not try to hide the mistakes like some people do on youtube. Currently thinking about building a tagelharpa myself so really enjoyed this video and yes from your mistakes I did learn some of what not to do 😊. Even with that your first attempt will probably still look way better than my first attempt.
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
Ah, thanks so much for the supportive comment!
@MediaManProductions
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome!!
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!
@sjangvill
3 жыл бұрын
Hellow - I must say that it's fantastic enthusiasm you have all the way through your instrument, in a way the process and the video becomes the product. Thank you
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Just watched yours too. Great detail in your work! I'll strive for that kind of accuracy in the future :D
@sjangvill
3 жыл бұрын
😊
@jcmusc
3 ай бұрын
I decided to use Red Oak 😅 it took me 3 days to cut all the holes. I have 4 pieces 1 meter long 20.3cm wide. I need to router the back and glue All the pieces together and I have my main structure
@dekoningtan
3 ай бұрын
Red Oak is super tough wood, I can understand it must've taken a while! But as a hard wood it'll last a while, so years later you'll be happy you did it :)
@HewWagner
2 жыл бұрын
Oh wow this is awesome! I can't believe how bassy and powerful it sounds
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm still learning to play. Hope to making a Viking-inspired track featuring it soon :)
@kylethewolfify
3 жыл бұрын
Great job!! I'm trying it myself ^_^ this gives me hope ^_^ thank you 👍
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
You can do it! And now you can avoid my mistakes 😂
@johnjriggsarchery2457
2 жыл бұрын
I'm planning on building one, but as a musician with limited luthier skills I'd build it with a proper spruce or cedar top plate and hardwood tone woods for the ribs and back.
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely a good idea. For me I wanted to first learn more before spending seriously on wood, those woods are expensive here (Thailand) and I've been learning about local tonewood alternatives too. The wood I chose for the soundboard is giving me pretty decent tone, but the back and sides are really not helpful I think 🤣
@moonlightingenglishteacher
3 жыл бұрын
So cool, man! I love the tuning choice. You should work your way up to building a hurdy gurdy :)
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha, I am-- sloooowly ;) But that's a VERY advanced build compared to what I do.
@ironwhistlesArt
3 ай бұрын
My first build sounds like an wounded Animal - but yours? Not bad! :)
@dekoningtan
3 ай бұрын
Aw thanks! I think getting the tone is hard. What strings did you use?
@ironwhistlesArt
3 ай бұрын
@@dekoningtan today? I use the Corethreads from a parachute Cord. Earlier i try it with Horsehair ...
@dekoningtan
3 ай бұрын
@@ironwhistlesArt you could try cello or Viola strings, but don't skimp on quality ones it can be expensive. The type of string can really help with the tone 😊
@ironwhistlesArt
3 ай бұрын
@@dekoningtan i will try it! Thanks for the Tipp .... :)
@adamhorner3950
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe you said this and I missed it, but what kind of strings did you use? Cello or violin strings? Great job!
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
Cello strings (2nd hand, so it didn't cost a fortune haha). Thanks so much!
@adamhorner3950
2 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan Good idea, they're a bit pricy lol. I appreciate your reply! I've just finished making my own Tagelharpa and my polyester strings are having a little trouble staying in tune. I think they stretch or something, so I might try cello strings instead.
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
@@adamhorner3950 polyester isn't quite as rich of a tone either. If you have some money, a guy I know makes horse hair ones. 100 euros though😜
@skalsong9485
3 жыл бұрын
Very nice work! I would recommend turning the tuning pegs to the other side, so you can hit the lower notes better. Also the soundboard seems a little too thick, you could make it sound better by making it less thick. Also from what i know, the jouhikko/tagelharpa have pratically no difference, it's just different names for the same thing (different languages).
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Hey there! Thanks for commenting. Yes, the tuners is unfortunate-- at 13:09 I mention how I didn't plan them properly, so they're facing the wrong way. Oh well, it was a learning experience... You think it should be less thin than 6 mm? Really? Any less than that and we're talking so thin that it would easily break (single or double plywood is about 2-3 here anyway).
@lawabidingcitizen5153
3 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan Most guitar sound boards are only about 2.5 to 3mm thick, if you use properly braced quartersawn spruce, cedar or similar that's plenty
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
@@lawabidingcitizen5153 cool! Good to know 🤟🏼 thanks!
@skalsong9485
3 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan Oh, it is 6mm? It looked thicker on video, I make mine 4mm on top, and 5 on bottom. So i guess 6mm should be ok. Also you can try making horsehair strings and checking how they sound on your instrument. Anyways, good luck learning the instrument!
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
@@skalsong9485 It was a lot thicker before! Man, this instrument is hard to learn, but it's a good challenge-- I'm super used to frets (guitarist) and not having them is throwing me off often. Maybe I'll make horsehair ones one day, but it'd be nicer to just buy some horse hair strings rather than count them out, haha.
@williamgiersdorf577
3 жыл бұрын
a piece of 1/2 hardwood dowel would probably have been a decent sound post or 3/4 inch
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Totally! Dowels aren't that easy for me to find locally (yet), I'm sure they're somewhere, but I just haven't found them yet. Thanks for watching!
@Cael2x
2 жыл бұрын
What strings do you use? Can you give me the parameters?
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
I used old cello strings!
@86Vash
2 жыл бұрын
Amazing! Which strings you used?
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
2nd hand cello strings, I mention it in the video 😁
@86Vash
2 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan thanks a lot! ☺ I didn't understand from the video because I don't speak english :(
@dekoningtan
2 жыл бұрын
@@86Vash no worries! I'm happy to clarify 👍🏼❤️
@86Vash
2 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan thank you 😊
@williamgiersdorf577
3 жыл бұрын
tagalharpa -> viking violin... hahahahahaha
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Haha, I'd say "viking drone violin" pretty much yup.
@ondrat9790
3 жыл бұрын
Why it is so big, made from poor wood and bow is just some log?
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
Hey there. Good questions, my guess is you didn't watch / listen to the video, but in good faith I'll answer your questions: 1. It isn't made of poor wood, merbau is a wood used for instruments in S.E. Asia. There are other parts of pine (which I mentioned regretting in the video, but it isn't a poor wood) and the back is ply since it is my first build I didn't want to spend too much money 😉, but the ply I chose had a nice grain. 2. Why is it so big? I wanted to make a bass jouhikko. 3. The bow is a bent stick (logs are too big) , which is quite normal if you make your own bow. I didn't want to shave it down as I liked the natural look. Hope that helps you understand and answers the questions you asked.
@ondrat9790
3 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan Plywood is a very very bad choice for bowed instrument... it is a bad choice for making instruments in general... it is very nice, that you like the look of the bow, but it is too heavy and unbalanced so it must be very unpleasant to hold it. And I understand that you wanted to have a big "Viking" bowed lyre.
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
@@ondrat9790 hmm, seems like you know a lot about this instrument that I built, but you've never played mine 😉 do you have mystical powers? Haha! The bow is very light and very balanced, I'm not sure where you got the idea it is heavy 😂 You seem like you know a lot about this topic, so please do feel free to show me links and photos of the lyres you've built😁
@ondrat9790
3 жыл бұрын
@@dekoningtan I learnd a lot about bowed lyres, about history and how they are made. I even wrote graduate work about this topic. I have done a lot of research in old Finnish books, specially in Otto Anderssons books and Rauno Nieminen book and for my graduate work I have build Impilahti type jouhikko.
@dekoningtan
3 жыл бұрын
@@ondrat9790 That's cool that you've researched it. Good for you. I'm happy to be having someone with relevant experience commenting on my work. However, I do wish to add that in your comments you do come across a bit unsupportive and rude. It is something you may not be aware of, so as a nice person I'm making you aware of it. Commenting the way you did on someone's video who literally says in the video that they're trying this out for the first time isn't very helpful or kind. What it is is rude and discouraging. Try to remember internet people are real people, too. On the matter of plywood, I just wanted to draw your attention to this article, which may change your mind about it (it changed mine) : www.liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/Plywood/Plywood.htm "Provided equally careful and skillful instrument construction practice is followed, the results show that plywood may stand on nearly equal acoustical footing with solid wood." I hope you will think on all I've said.
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