2024 is really my year, I’ve been blessed with so many random video essays from brand new channels at lower viewership
@S.H.I.E.L.Dagent-e2p
29 күн бұрын
You and me brother you and me
@OrangeToadGamer
29 күн бұрын
Wow, this was an amazing video, probably one the best if not the best Sonic Forces critique videos I've seen on the platform, definitely subscribing for sure!
@radicalfunky
Ай бұрын
i have the unique opportunity to be the second person to make a really good joke rn
@AVeryRandomDot
Ай бұрын
Uhmmmmm which one?
@PotatoCat21
Ай бұрын
The three hours spent watching this video was all worth it to see New Super Mario Bros. U mentioned at the end But in all seriousness, killer video. Replaying Sonic Forces is no longer something I dread doing
@ask343
Ай бұрын
New Super Mario Bros. 2 better 🥱
@xanthousizalith5641
Ай бұрын
A few additions I'd like to make. The bad dialogue at 44:30 (ish) is something I could see myself writing, just not there, and most definitely not after doing a regular rescue mission in what is basically Act 1. If I was writing it, I'd have thrown it in a Cutscene after an intense battle, and they wouldnt be one after another, theyd be all stacked on top of each other, and use it as a short "Theyre getting stronger" or "they're growing an Ego" instead of just fluff post mission. Also the Big Wave attack is just so incredibly bad, they dont even do the barest minimum about such a massive failure of the Rebellion. That shit HURTS, loosing such a massive amount of troops is something i have restarted my console over in the RTS games Ive played and Knuckles says "Man that sucks, whatevs" and just MOVE ON. Also I can understand why Sonic would be confused about Metal being a Phantom and not a Bot when, presumably, a Phantom would be weaker and the sturdiness of whatever super alloy Metal is made of, and if they have the entire world conquered for 6 months, Resources shouldnt be a problem, even if Eggman needed the rarest element in existance, he has an army of robots, and doesn't need to follow osha guidelines, so why waste Brain power replicating Metal when you could replicate something actually threatening like the Egg Dragon. The Egg Dragon was real and would have taken WAY more materials than a small squad of Metals. Also I'll explain how this doesn't contradict my Ruby hypothesis when I explain that. Also forgetting the Degg explosion is hilarious and the Degg explosion looks, just, horrible. The only consistency in SF being Infinite talking about how hes just so amazing is the funniest thing ever. Having a back up Generator is something that makes sense and they absolutely could have added that in without dimminishing the Degg Arc. Having the Primary power source be destroyed could have led to the Ruby needing more time to charge, say about a week, have them use this week to gather an army, stamp out the last of Eggman's forces, and discover the Egg Empire Fortress where the Ruby is being charged, and bada bing bada boom, have your cake and eat it too. I do think Eggman and Infinite not just replacing the Sun with another one makes sense, presumably making such a large and powerful creation is what the Ruby needed to charge, so erasing said Sun would be erasing the however long the Ruby spent charging, and the smaller but stronger Illusions would be able to form based on the latent power stored in the Ruby, the Power Source would be like plugging a Hand Crank Radio into a generator, you can get it working and it would work better with a clearer source, but if all else fails you could just go back to spinning the crank. As for why I still think they should have Rubied the Egg Dragon is because its more complex and they likely would have needed a secondary power source but having multiple Dragons would have been much better than having Multiple Sonics and as I said above, they could have used the Materials needed to build the Dragon on a Squad of Metals, so they would get to have their cake and eat it too! Plus they could explain why they didnt Phantom the final boss with it being too complex and all of Eggman's generators being trashed. Its also kind of weird that the only bosses that aren't Phantoms are Infinite and the Eggman bosses. Which makes sense, theyre the two antagonists, but its weird theres no Eggman Phantoms, Body Doubles are like, the most popular trope, and Eggman just doesnt make any? Why? Whats stopping him from making an Army of Himself all decked out with high quality Gear to serve as distractions? I cant really comment on the Gameplay since Ive never really been a fan of the Gameplay of any Sonic games, although I will admit that I'm a total sucker for the Eight bit/Old Synth stuff of Classic's levels, and I can't properly properly explain what I hate about Modern's music or Avatar's music either, if I had to try and put an exact pin in it, I'd say it feels like its all seasoning with no meat, like instead of the music enhancing the levels, its the music laid over the levels like a kid putting way too much seasoning on his fries at a Red Robins. I don't really have anything specific. Also as an unrepentant lover of Edge I will fully admit that I am excited for Shadow Gen and fully intend to buy it. Heres hoping its fun.
@RoxieProxy
Ай бұрын
You make a lot of great points, but I still think recreating Metal Sonic with the phantom ruby made perfect sense given the fact that the characters in-lore constantly refer to the replicas as being equally as powerful as their real counterparts. There's also the fact that a world ruled by Eggman would be stripped of its resources much faster than one where he's trying and failing to seize control. The power required to replicate a few measley robots would probably be negligible with the Death Egg's power and a massive underground backup generator, so why not create some Metal Sonics on top of the countless other cool ideas the game could have implemented?
@recordfumo
Ай бұрын
you just had to go over the 10 minute mark roxie didn't you
@nelunel_u
Ай бұрын
You wouldn't say that skipping cutscenes mean the devs intended them to be unimportant, so why do you say that about the radio? Both options are there to increase replayability.
@RoxieProxy
29 күн бұрын
The thing is, cutscenes are skipped individually, not through a menu option that does it automatically for the player. I think if the in-level narrations could be enabled and disabled in-game with the press of a button, then it'd better convey to the player that they're opting out of an important piece of exposition, not some flavor text that can be safely ignored.
@borederlands5387
Ай бұрын
Autoscrolling sonic levels are underrepresented because they're boring and frustrating
@merlang7
Ай бұрын
waow... this video is longer than the game 😂 I am the first person to make this joke.
@techmuse8
Ай бұрын
This video was a great time! Would easily recommend this video whether you like the game or not, and I’m excited for the rest of their boost Sonic retrospectives in the future. Would probably say that my favorite running gag was the one about the game unintentionally poking fun at its weak writing in a meta way.
@eveandromeda
Ай бұрын
This is a wonderful video, and one of the better examinations of this game that I think I've seen. I feel like a lot of the phantom ruby writing issues - specifically at the end - could have been fixed with just a few throwaway lines. Like, why don't they commit harder to the Phantom Ruby taking power (literal energy) to use? That could be why Infinite refuses to chase us. The fuel for his is his life force and he only has so much to burn. That's why they couldn't just "re-summon" the sun to wipe the resistance out, and why it took three days to prepare. The prototypes could be prototypes specifically because they only have an internal energy bank to draw from. Hell, it'd add more narrative weight to the army fight too, since summoning an army of villains would be a huge power investment. It'd even tie into Lost World's focus on ecology destruction. Powering the ruby would take immense resources, depleting the land. It'd then make sense for Eggman to have an occupation force; the power needed to use the ruby is so immense that even minor interruptions in his supply chains would majorly slow his plans. I know I'm on the verge of writing fanfic here, but this seems so easy to fix.
@somari8591
Ай бұрын
9:29 y/w oomfie 💙
@craftyadrian
Ай бұрын
Great video! I needed something to watch and listen to while doodling.
@Sydney_Angelyt
Ай бұрын
14:15 huh? The reason there's an option is obviously for those replaying the game that don't want to hear everyone yapping for the 300th time. That doesn't mean they're irrelevant to the story.
@RoxieProxy
Ай бұрын
At 1:28:24 I go into more detail as to why I decided to analyse the cutscenes of Forces independently from the in-level narrations. It's not because I think they're unimportant to the overall narrative, but because the existence of the option to turn off the in-level narrations creates an expectation that everything you'd need to understand the overarching narrative is contained within cutscenes. For those with poor hand-eye coordination who can't focus on text while platforming at the same time, they're missing out on several key plot points that are glossed over or entirely unmentioned within cutscenes, hence why I decided to present the story without the crutches that are the in-level narrations.
@blackedoutreviews
Ай бұрын
The End joke from Sonic Frontiers got me. 😂 Great video!
@Norsq_
26 күн бұрын
that was intense to watch! the only thing, you railed a lot off to talk about other stuff that i didn't even understand why you talked about it and you didn't had to talk so much about the issues you had with the recordings and all but it's a nice way to know you... but overall this was a nice video! thank you for making this content and i wish you a nice day
@Hyp3rSonic
Ай бұрын
Speedrunning and time attack is definitely the best part of Forces
@Jorno_arts
Ай бұрын
Forces classic sonic is just gens classic sonic from the past, they just changed It for no reason, and then stepped back and made him from the past again, to justify it in a tails tube tails mentions time (past and future) as a different dimension
@RoxieProxy
Ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment. I am aware of how Classic Sonic in Forces was intended to be interpreted, and that he's essentially the same character as in Sonic Generations. My refusal to acknowledge Forces Classic Sonic and Generations Classic Sonic as being the same character is a deliberate running gag meant to criticize the localization of Sonic Forces. Taking the writing of Forces at face valve, without relying on context clues from other sources, the game's refusal to acknowledge any acts of time travel creates this warped interpretation of Classic Sonic that convolutes his relationship with Modern Sonic. His character is handled in a completely different way than how Generations did it, hence why I treat him as a different character entirely. In retrospect, I do understand how splicing satire and serious character analysis could be confusing. I hope this response is acceptable!
@renardbennett75
17 күн бұрын
I’ll say the real reason why this game continues to be relevant, and will always be until a change is made. All the new games coming out, including Shadow Generations, are using this games physics and special effects engine as a base, so literally every new game, even if it is 1000% better designed, for better or worse, will look and feel like this game to a certain extent, this game itself being built on the engine that was used to make Sonic Lost World, a game with a totally different movement system than the boost games. Basically, Sonic Forces is the poor decision that is currently being used to inform all future decisions. I’m not saying the future can’t still be bright, but this game remains a relevant failure that needs to be studied in order to understand everything coming after, much like Sonic 06 was to the original boost trilogy.
@Hyp3rSonic
Ай бұрын
I have always loved Forces. Its actually my 2nd favorite sonic game! I was extremely hooked on it ever since my dad bought it for me on Christmas 2017. I have played it for about 353 to 393 hours of total playtime. I still think its kinda overhated. About its quality, lets not act like Sonic 06 doesnt exist.(yes, Forces is just extremely mediocre, unlike 06, which is an actual bad game, no matter how many laughs it may summon out of many people)
@SeekzIsADork
Ай бұрын
12:36 without context is insane.
@SammaS423
28 күн бұрын
Sonic fans standard is so low garbage like this is being defended
@borederlands5387
Ай бұрын
I would assume the episode shadow stages would get 1s in presentation because they look cobbled together in halo forge
@NinHenry
Ай бұрын
hell yeah roxie
@Slowking199
29 күн бұрын
12:40 p diddy
@Sneavile
29 күн бұрын
Good video for the most part, but I think your reasoning for separating in-level radio dialogue from cutscenes is fundamentally flawed, to say the least. You say that the fact there is an option to disable them sets the expectation that they are not vital to the story, but that's frankly ridiculous-- that's like saying the ability to skip cutscenes also sets the expectation that cutscenes aren't important to understanding the story, or that being able to turn voice volume all the way down to 0 and turn off subtitles in a game means you should be able to understand the story without a single character speaking. That would be a ridiculous thing to say, and I don't see how applying this reasoning to the option to disable radio chatter somehow makes it any different. Thinking about it in a non-pedantic way makes it pretty clear that in-level dialogue is intended to be a supplement to the cutscenes, providing context for events as they are happening rather than only having characters speak in-between stages. An option to disable radio chatter by no means implies it's not necessary, rather the option was provided for players who don't want to hear them-- you are opting in to an experience that is not the default, intended experience, at the cost of less exposition and story context, for whatever reasons you may have (i.e. you've heard them before, or simply don't care about the story.) I fail to see how this is any different from muting voices and disabling subtitles, or muting music-- Just because you can, doesn't mean those things aren't considered important to the overall package of the game, and intended to be experienced. Now, I don't like this game much myself. But picking and choosing which parts of the story to review and leaving out parts you arbitrarily labelled as "optional" seems incredibly disingenuous to Forces, and IMO significantly hurts the entire story section of this review, and to a lesser extent the gameplay section as well.
@RoxieProxy
29 күн бұрын
I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and I appreciate your feedback! I knew this would be a controversial decision to make when writing the script, and hopefully I can better convey here what my intentions were: 1) Unlike gameplay narrations, cutscenes demand your full attention. The ability to skip them doesn't change the fact that they're segmented from gameplay specifically to ensure the player can follow along with the narrative. Cutscenes also aren't auto-skipped using a menu option, the player has to specifically opt-out of each and every cutscene knowing that they're skipping a chunk of the narrative. I think if the in-level narratives were enabled and disabled on the fly using a button press, rather than via a menu that can only be accessed at the title screen, then it'd better convey to the player that they're about to miss out on vital exposition, not just random flavor text. 2) Past Sonic games like Heroes and Shadow '05 do have in-level dialogue, but those exist specifically to comment on the characters' surroundings- I.E. the environment and NPCs. And when they do touch on narrative, it's either exposition on the history of the location or an entirely self-contained story that explains the current objective(s). And then you have Sonic Forces, which has characters speak in the middle of stages not to tackle worldbuilding or player objectives in a digestive way, but rather to dump plot points onto the player that are glossed over or even unmentioned entirely within cutscenes. Hence, why I view the in-level narrations as crutches for the story and wanted to present the overarching narrative without them. 3) Simply put, I wanted to separate the story and gameplay of Sonic Forces to approach the game from a unique angle and avoid retreading the same ground as other critics. Therefore, the gameplay segment covers everything that makes up the game's stages, including their exposition, while the story segment covers every other aspect of the game that makes up its story. I hope this response is acceptable!
@radio6sussex823
29 күн бұрын
@@RoxieProxy I don't agree with the idea that in-level radio chatter is a storytelling crutch: it provides the opportunity for the characters to comment on events as they happen. For example, Shadow slowly realizes that something's wrong with reality during his 3rd mission, and characters react to Infinite's attack as it happens during 'Big Wave'. Obviously, the game doesn't touch on this information in the cutscenes afterwards, it would be redundant and less effective in retrospect. You can't present the overarching narrative without them, because they are a part of the narrative. Obviously, you don't have to like radio chatter as a storytelling device, but in that case, it would have been better to explain the issues you have with it in the video, and then cover the story in full. As it stands, the video is weirdly nitpicky about self-inflicted issues. The decision to look at the gameplay and the story separately is definitely a unique one, just in a bad way. Considering that both were meant to be experienced in the context of each other, this style basically does nothing but hobble and weaken your analysis, while adding really of value. Other than that, great video!
@RoxieProxy
28 күн бұрын
Y'know what? You have a lot of good points. I do see how treating the mere presence of in-level narrations as an innate flaw, rather than tackling the lack of show-don't-tell as only one small byproduct of a larger, flawed narrative, puts the game at an unfair disadvantage. I doubt I'll tackle a game non-sequentially like this in the future. Sonic Forces was an exception because it was a game that I struggled to gather my thoughts on for a long time, hence why I decided to group certain aspects of the game together, one-by-one, in a way that made sense to me. But by treating my own interpretation of Sonic Forces as an inherent point against the game, I've ironically blamed it for a criticism that doesn't even apply to it, something that I was trying to avoid as a former fan of the game. I do hope that my interpretation of the game's story as I present it in this retrospective is still acceptable!
@fl0837
21 күн бұрын
personnaly, although i enjoyed sonic Forces (since the other only Sonics i played were Rush adventure, colors DS and World), i'm putting this game on the same position as Mario&Luigi Paper Jam: "So mideocre it's bad" Those two games parallel in thier notable lack of any effort to make the best of their own potential to... well, the point it becomes a narratively bastardized and boringly designed piece of cynical work. As if the developers mocked their game being bad because they couldn't do otherwise.
@borederlands5387
Ай бұрын
Wait i thought labyrinth zone was the one bad stage in sonic 1 you liked that?
@ChrisThePlayer777
28 күн бұрын
If Sonic forces was a fan project made by a small group of 5 independent developers i'd praise it but being developed by Sonic Team is crazy to me because how mediocre the game is
@ChrisThePlayer777
28 күн бұрын
The worst thing about Forces was hands down the avatar character
@Hyp3rSonic
Ай бұрын
I didnt rly liked The Final Horizon, and thought that is was bad(pre-patch)
@gregtom3272
Ай бұрын
"all of the issues i had with sonic colors can be panned on sonic team for misunderstanding their own characters and letting their overseas writers take the fall for it" while i understand your point , but do i really have a lot to say to at least clarify that the situation is a lot more complicated than that, so i hope you read the comment to the very end as i'm trying to explain some thing that a lot of fans seem to misunderstand about sonic team approach that differ from localisation the first thing that we need to tackle is sonic's original concept that was made by the original sonic team in the 90s,(which in some aspects is VASTLY different than that of Sega of America's approach back in the day, let alone being not known at all at the time for western audiences), which consists of : the character being a good kind spirited guy with a loving nature, one whose core value is freedom, with a sense of jusitice, and someone who protect the right of freedom of the innocent and a proactive nature of helping, protecting and saving people, he do not like to see people sad or even in suffereing, so he tends to help them when ever he could, with him having nothing to do with being a hero nor he want to do with any thing like that, with an attitude of not respecting authority in regards to how he save people, unless some one point out to him a flaw about an action he's about to do, a nomad who like traveling around the world, a love for nature and the natural beauty of the environment, along with doing any thing to keep a good balance between technology and nature, along with a street level smart of IQ in tackling challanges. and respecting the decesions of others and not interfering in them nor claiming to know the truth of any one's actions, and instead stoping the bad actions of bad guys when they endanger others when they are not conveinced to stop. why am i saying all of this you might ask, while aside from the fact that there are a lot of aspects of sonic's atittude that i never talked about, such as his cockiness, arrogance, eating chilidogs and making fun of his enemies with jokes and stuff, and that cool atittude of the 90s that was overly emphasised back then, (since none of them had any thing to do with that original concept), you need to take into consideration that each and every single 3d sonic game always had , is that both english script and japanese script seem to be like two drastically different storylines in terms of dialogue when it comes to how the characters are portrayed, what they say and different nuances from plot points that seem different in an other script (like president saying they were wrong about the proffessor "AKA Gerald" but instead, he just praises shadow and not say anything about Gerald in the japanese script", how ever the games from the 2010s are the worst exemple of that, because aside from the fact that this time around, while the japanese script is SURPRISINGLY much better in terms of dialogue, with all characters being much closer to their 2000s depection, the english script is pretty much an utter joke on how the characters are supposed to be portrayed, which is important to consider as sonic team, always had that approach, where sonic as a character is still pretty much the same as he was in the 90s for japanese audiences, while the localisation do their own thing, to be fair, the japanese script of each game from the 2010s do have that flaw of the story itself being "BORING TO TEARS" that there is barely any thing going on aside from characters talking to each other, which is not what even the most lighthearted sonic game stories is known for, other than that, it really goes to show that sonic team do not really misunderstand their own characters, it's just misunderstanding on how they appeal to broader audiences, and how important quality storytelling is to the franchise, rather than it being simple to the point of being uninteresting, especially when for sonic fans, there is a huge value to a sonic story having heart and integrity to it, some thing in their eyes should always be prioritised even with a light hearted story approach to understand my point, watch a video named as "The Story of Sonic Colors" at least up until 35:45 of that video , and believe me, that you'll have a MUCH better understanding of what sonic team was going for with that title, even if you don't have to agree with what they were trying to do
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