I'm really glad you touched on enclosures, but I really wanted to see what improvement you got with both the bed insulation AND the enclosure combined.
@elvinhaak
3 жыл бұрын
he did, look at the graph near the end of the video.
@ExtantFrodo2
3 жыл бұрын
@@elvinhaak Neither of the graphs at 11:43 nor 12:00 nor 13:42 depict the combined insulation of both bed and printer.
@elvinhaak
3 жыл бұрын
@@ExtantFrodo2 Ah ok. I thought I saw that passing (for just a second) in the graph. Must have mis-interpreted that then. I thought that the one at 11:58 showed the insulated enclosure.
@Exstaz
3 жыл бұрын
Insulating the bed when you enclose the printer are counter productive. You want that chamber to heat up.
@ExtantFrodo2
3 жыл бұрын
@@Exstaz You're only insulating the lower half of the bed so that the heat it produces gets directed only upwards. You'd still get prints started faster AND have the added benefit of your chamber retaining heat for the benefit of parts above the bed not cooling down as much.
@theone092001
3 жыл бұрын
I used corkboard to insulate my bed, attached with high-temperature aluminum flue tape. The kapton tape that I had been using for the wiring didn't seem to have enough adhesive strength for me to be confident in it as a means to attach the insulation long-term.
@maximuss1001
3 жыл бұрын
How effective is the corkboard? I have ordered a Rat Rig and that one come without insulation, so I'm out looking for some kind of insulation
@ez1ollie
2 жыл бұрын
How did you attach the cork board to the heated bed
@foosty6
3 жыл бұрын
My heated bed insulation is radiator reflection foil lined with kapton tape, it is cool to the touch indicating the heat isn't being lost much
@makewithmegma
3 жыл бұрын
🔥💕👌👍
@TeachingTech
3 жыл бұрын
Some people have been asking about fumes from this being heated up. Based on the piece that was labelled, this is LDPE foam. I looked through MSDS for this material and it only seems to be hazardous when heated to the point of melting. Of course there will be variations in foam used, so if you are concerned, please use cork or another material. The main message from me in this video is that insulation is worthwhile and that anything will likely be better than nothing, so insulate away. www.redwoodplastics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/LDPE-2012.pdf www.simco.net.au/wp-content/uploads/MSDS-PE-Foam.pdf www.interpak.ltd.uk/Downloads/Novostrat%20Fire%20Safety.pdf
@RagingShrimp67
3 жыл бұрын
8:43 Surely that is less than 10mm? Looks more like 2mm?
@foosty6
3 жыл бұрын
Check what insulation has the lowest heat loss by using the thermal cam on the insulated side, radiator reflection foil lined with kapton tape was best for me
@theaninova
3 жыл бұрын
Just wanna stress here, some materials are not only flammable, but also emit super toxic, thick, and lots of smoke when ignited. Don't use this stuff without testing it first. Also consider the stuff they might emit when warm... No idea how they behave then. Be safe.
@jasonbr194
3 жыл бұрын
Was VOC's considered with this? Heating up foam can release some pretty nasty chemicals depending on the type of foam.
@MitsumaYT
3 жыл бұрын
I would also be weary if the foam can do the up to 120°C without deforming, shrinking or as you said release nasty stuff. He did test flammability but things can already move or whatnot before that. Getting proper material would be the wiser choice for this task.
@hotbrakepads
3 жыл бұрын
LOL. And we all know the foam that comes with these printers smells like you were in the inside of a Chinese factory. there’s probably more than VOCs in that stuff.
@TeachingTech
3 жыл бұрын
Just added a pinned post addressing this, thanks for asking the question.
@gordonjones1516
3 жыл бұрын
Adding a layer of Kapton tape to the whole foam underside should decrease potential out gassing issues. It could also improve it's heat tolerance. An enclosure with a filter would also be a good idea.
@elvinhaak
3 жыл бұрын
@@hotbrakepads YEs but that smell is there already, also if not using for insulation. It gets there the moment you open the box inside your house and even more when you set the printer up. It is by the way not as bad as many times with computers from for example Dell. Some fumes are actually from added gasses to make sure that for example rodents don't get transported.
@f.d.6667
3 жыл бұрын
Good tip - but DON'T use a polyolefine foam (PE/PP as used as packaging material for most 3D printers) as it is usually very flammable and NOT self-extinguishing (test a small piece first). If I had to, I'd probably use spray-on PUR foam in a flame-retardant formula or better even a mineral fiber product wrapped in aluminium foil to prevent particles getting into the air.
@smorris12
3 жыл бұрын
I looked at using PE foam for this but the degradation temperature (80-120C) was rather low for my taste
@artiem5262
3 жыл бұрын
I did this to my Ender 3 v2 shortly after I got it, over a year ago. I used a piece of foam core, held in place by Kapton tape and the corner bed mounts. Power consumption dropped, PID tuning changed. ONE BIG DOWNSIDE: it takes the bed longer to cool off! I have some purpose-made insulation for appliances to try, but the foam core works well enough that I'm not going to try the new stuff until I do something to the printer where I need to remove the bed. Thanks for the video!
@fuck_chinanobrain5011
3 жыл бұрын
A small USB fan above to cool your print actually makes the time negligible. You may even hear cracking when the plastic shrinks and it is simple to pull off.
@HughsScamProducts
2 жыл бұрын
Also I position my part cooling fan above the print and turn it on high. It cools the print and bed down early when positioned right. Just remember ur nozzle is still hot sometimes so not too close.
@driftowl2920
3 жыл бұрын
So far I've been using this type of foam to help organize/hold my tools in the shop, saves plenty of $ compared to buying the branded stuff and works just as well. Stack the sheets with spray adhesive, then contour cut around your tools and peel away as many layer as you need :)
@kei2142
3 жыл бұрын
Unless you have enclosed chamber with the intention to print abs, then the radiation off the bottom serve as chamber heating source.
@boazjoe1
3 жыл бұрын
Would adding a reflective surface to the top during warming aid in speed? Thinking it might help keep heat in the plate and would just involve placing a piece of reflectex on the bed during warming and removing to print. Can you test this also?
@TeachingTech
3 жыл бұрын
After the enclosure test I was wondering this myself.
@elvinhaak
3 жыл бұрын
yes it does, especially if you have an insulator on top of it. It does not get a more even heating though. I tested this (made a small video about it at the time too, probably still at my channel, EL 3d print). i don't use it often anymore since most of my printers are in an enclosure and adding the insulation makes the temperature of the rest of the printer (including the gantry) change more after removing the pad so introducing less quality especially in low surrounding-temperatures. Yes, preheating the bed also changes the structure of the printer and of course the printhead and the sensor if you have one on your printer, so better get those parts on the same temperature before starting the print as they will get when you are actually printing.
@zaviekucer9859
3 жыл бұрын
The PID parameters for the bed before and after would also be an indicator of thermal efficiency.
@MacEvoyING
2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad that people are considering these matters when it comes to these videos. They are almost always IGNORED. Another good indicator of power consumption efficiency is the power factor, which is not even mentioned in this video.
@kiowablue2862
2 жыл бұрын
@@MacEvoyING Since the heating element consumes the lion's share of energy, and has a PF of 1.0, looking at it with regards to PF is a indication of power supply efficiency more than anything else. Modern switching mode power supply efficiency is often in the range of 80 to 90%
@MacEvoyING
2 жыл бұрын
@@kiowablue2862 This is only true if the power supply of the printer has a really good power factor correction circuitry, which is not always true. On my Anycubic i3 mega I have a PF of about 0.4-0.5 on idle with nozzle and heated bed to 60º and 200ºC. The efficiency measures how much power gets lost due to, for example, heat dissipation, but the power factor measures how much real and reactive power the device is consuming, because at the end of the month you get charged for the real power, NOT for the reactive power. So, if you want to more or less accurately calculate the effective price of a print you need to know the power factor. Btw, those meters like the one shown in this video are capable of measuring the power factor.
@elvinhaak
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I have been using this way quite a lot of times. Almost all of my printers that didn't come with insulation below the bed from factory have these pieces of packing-foam added. And yes, also first testing for fire-hazard Also Using the foams for insulation and just building a complete enclosure from the foams as well. Just uses some pins and/or tape to connect the big pieces of the foams and then around the printer or better half-inside so that the electronics are outside this kind of fast-made enclosure. Printing some hinges is easy to make a door but already covering most sides in this self-made foam-box helps a lot too. holes can be covered with packaging-tape. i like to use the white foams that come with some printers to the inside or cover some foam with some white paper. i actually never used capton-tape under the bed, but just put the foam under the plate. Also under the printer itself if it does not have a fan there. It makes less difference then the other sides but it is fast and easy to do and you can attach the sides to it with just some metal pins/parts you have or printed pins from left-over filaments or printing-tests. Cutting: I generally use a warm soldering-iron or a melting-wire for this. This gives very straight and closed edges that are a bit more firm then when cut with a knife. About VOC's and such: I tested it and it was not measurable in changes, of course inside the case the normal fumes get higher as expected but easier to capture and ventilate outside the room or with a small airfilter then when it is in an open space. most of the foam does not get really hot during printing since the underside of the bed is way less hot then the upper-side especially at normal print-temperatures of 48-75 degrees that I use most often (PLA, flex, PETG and sometimes ABS, all on top of flex or fixed plates). Also about energy-saving: do not print on glass since that is also a good insulator (less then foam) as we know from using it for windows for example. It needs more time to heat up and after the print to cool down so especially with big printers this is a noticable amount of energy that is first stored and then lost.
@WhereNerdyisCool
3 жыл бұрын
So happy to contribute a fun research project! Thanks for doing this!😎
@smoothdog001
3 жыл бұрын
I've been doing this for a few years. This also works great for older printers with 12v beds. Mine struggled to heat and hold the bed @ 100C for ABS until I insulated it, now it has no issue at all.
@OCClark
3 жыл бұрын
I see the Dani Ric t-shirt after his win at Monza last weekend
@kingofnfsfan
3 жыл бұрын
I used the blanket from a cars first aid bag to insulate my enclosure. Got +13°C.
@Kalvinjj
3 жыл бұрын
I've always been using that insulation foam with glue on one side and aluminium foil on the other that they have pretty cheap on Aliexpress, never even bothered testing a comparison (what's the point of seeing how much worse it gets when saving .... 2 dollars?), would be interesting to see a comparison between insulation materials in the future. I can imagine there won't be extreme differences, but just like the enclosure test showed, it might actually have a considerable impact when you insulate the bottom from all 3 forms of heat transfer.
@rexxx927
3 жыл бұрын
yes Ldpe LLDPE and all other LDPE offgrades are only turned to vocs at melting temps or higher
@harco76
3 жыл бұрын
I used granulated rubber mats for the inside of my enclosed printer. They insulate but also damp vibrations and noise.
@jgarmer
3 жыл бұрын
Mylar baby. cover the inside of your enclosure with mylar emergency blankets
@printingotb521
3 жыл бұрын
I want to know how different bed materials affects heat efficiency. Will for example adding a glass sheet add a lot to heating time and power consumption? A flex plate? Buildtak vs Pei etc. Or even the colour of the bed surface, if I recall, black colours not only absorb heat faser, the also radiate heat away faster than white colours?
@beatadalhagen
3 жыл бұрын
For my old JGA5, used a sheet of 3mm or so 'cork' and a thin layer of self-curing silicone adhesive.
@backgammonbacon
3 жыл бұрын
Energy is 14 pence per KwH in my country. Normal 0.164 = 2.3p Hour = 55.3p a day if print 24hrs a day Insulated 0.145 = 2p Hour = 48p a day if print 24hrs a day Saving of 7.3 pence a day Proper bed insulation not potential death trap random crap £8. 800 / 7.3 = 109 days to pay for itself if using printer 24 hrs a day. If using for say 4 hours a day it will take 1 year and a bit to pay for itself. Not worth it, just working an extra half hour at my job will earn me a 2 years worth of insulation foam savings.
@fuck_chinanobrain5011
3 жыл бұрын
It isn't even just about the energy (10% is actually really impressive by many metrics, not negligable) AND the benefit of a faster heating - for me I am actually saving 3-5 minutes every single print. This adds up if you are printing every day. 3*365days is 18 hours or so....so is your time not worth anything?
@ШтормовойЛев
3 жыл бұрын
Key words in the whole video are "I think it will not". Because you will not be able to know exactly what is the chemical composition of the packaging material you have (especially if it arrives fro China), you are risking with your own health. Please inform yourself about proper material suitable for this task. If you want to be power efficient start with your power supply, PFC circuit will do the trick, upgrade your electronics to a better design. There is no sens to even think of power eff. when you have shi** PSU, stepper motors with high inductance values, poor designed main board, shi** wires or a combination of all of these.
@fuck_chinanobrain5011
3 жыл бұрын
yeah nah mate, if you're printing ABS, you have other things to worry about. "proper materials" - mate, can you verify every single component in your 3d printer is lead free and suitable for the task? Or is it easier to sit on a high chair. Yeah nah, this is actually a decent test - especially considering most people will be printing at 60-80 - which the MSDF for the foam clearly states it to be safe. up to 120c.
@Der_Kleine_Mann
Жыл бұрын
Since last year electricity got quite pricey here in Germany😮💨 So I will definitely try that bed isolation hack with the packaging foam soon. Thank you👍
@TeachingTech
Жыл бұрын
It keeps going up here too :(
@OldCurmudgeon3DP
3 жыл бұрын
Wish I hadn't tossed that packing 2yrs ago. 🤦🏼 Oh, a 24hr PLA print cost me about 2.2kWHr last time I ran a test. 4:42 watts are a bit of a liar here. Creality/Meanwell PSUs are horribly inefficient. Their power factor routinely hits 0.6 or lower. I have a calibrated smart plug on my Ender 3 and it peaks near 500 VA when heating bed and nozzle at warmup; Nozzle is rated at 40W/24V. It's not unusual to see 4.25A/120V during this period. Now, your use of a watt meter is probably fine for comparison between the printers & insulated vs not. I just wanted to raise the flag that watts do not represent the true load on the mains circuit. The actual amps (what the mains breaker cares about) can be almost double what the wattage would imply.
@AndrewGillard
3 жыл бұрын
As far as I'm aware, household electricity use is generally measured as real power (Watts) rather than apparent power (Volt-Amps), so that's what most people are probably more interested in. (At least, here in the UK I've never heard of anyone being billed for poor power factor.) You're right that it doesn't represent the load on the circuit wiring, but I think you'd have to have a lot of printers (or an already very marginal electrical installation) for that to really be much of a concern. That said, I'm not at all defending the choice of power supply used in these printers. They're using Meanwell PSUs because they can boast about it in marketing, but they use the absolute cheapest Meanwell PSU they can get away with, to the point of it probably not complying with EU regulations 🙄
@hotbrakepads
3 жыл бұрын
Whaaaat? Power = V *I. Current load on the wiring to the fuse panel is irrelevant with regards to power consumption. You only ever want to look at that if you’re worried about an electrical fire due to overloading your circuit. The way he compared it is fine.
@OldCurmudgeon3DP
3 жыл бұрын
@@AndrewGillard agreed. Amps are more important here than most places due to 125 vs 230 mains. My house has 2 bedrooms (outlets and lights) on 1 15A breaker & 14awg wires. Now, when we had the spare basement area finished it got multiple 20A breakers and 12awg; proper wiring. Lighting on its own 15A circuit. I'm slowly fixing issues from 15yr old "code". Would have fired the electrician knowing then what I do now.
@OldCurmudgeon3DP
3 жыл бұрын
@@hotbrakepads Power = V * I yes. Watts = V * I * cos(ø). Printer farms (which he mentions) would need to worry about the total Amp load per branch circuit. I don't think I said he was measuring incorrectly for comparison. I wanted to point out that watts were not the whole story. The losses in the PSU may or may not contribute to errors in his end result.
@hotbrakepads
3 жыл бұрын
@@OldCurmudgeon3DP ok sounds like we are talking about the same thing then. Yes printer farms need to worry about branch current not power draw (even though they are related).
@nobodynoone2500
3 жыл бұрын
At what temp does the foam burn? What is the additional risk of putting flamable material next to heating elements?
@thesuki
3 жыл бұрын
In the future, avoid green and red together for your graphs. Stick to colorblind friendly colors, especially for educational content.
@TeachingTech
3 жыл бұрын
Fair point. My apologies.
@ChrisStatzer
3 жыл бұрын
Please. Being cordial can get you a long way.
@bryantmissions4664
3 жыл бұрын
I’ll just use foam insulation tape. For me, it’s worth it to know I’m not off-gassing anything harmful.
@andrewholdaway813
2 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see if putting an insulation pad on top of the bed during initial heating made any significant difference to the time to temperature.
@hisfantor
3 жыл бұрын
I just orderd some sound isolating foam to cover my printers enclosure from the inside, let's see if it also helps isolating heat as well
@DysnomiaATX
3 жыл бұрын
Anyone else use high temp gasket seal tape from their bbq smoker? I have a bunch of it laying around the house and put two and two together a few months ago. It works really well 🙂
@waxer2249
3 жыл бұрын
i use cork board
@MacEvoyING
2 жыл бұрын
One thing that I'm interested on, is the sample time of the meter. I don't think your power meter is fast enough to capture the entire dynamic of the power, which could hide sudden peaks in power of your heated bed, which in turn can increase your energy costs. Another thing is the power factor, because if the power factor is low your printer does a really bad job with the energy, wasting a lot of it in things other than heating the bed, the nozzle and moving the motors. EDIT: I actually realized the sample time of your meter is 1 second. This is really bad, especially when the printer starts to move and change directions quickly. In fact at kzitem.info/news/bejne/qoOg0mxvsoGDkqA the power consumption dropped from 232.3 W to 52.5W IN ONE SECOND! How can your total power consumption be accurate or reliable enough, when you have such sudden jumps in the measured variable? It is clear that the insulation helps in terms of power consumption, but your measurements aren't reliable and precise enough. Sorry.
@gene_Code
3 жыл бұрын
Mmm. to be honest not worth the mod to get 30s faster heating. and ~10% less power not that appealing unless you have a print farm. Good experiments anyhow. 👍
@sicstar
3 жыл бұрын
I grabbed me some cermaic insulation for my Prusabear. You only gotta grind a metal pipe to hammer trough the holes for the screws under the bed. Helps A LOT with heat up time. Also i'd be scared to use some packaging material since it is usually not fire retardant. Good for you to test it beforehand but the fumes it gives out are probably not exactly healty :|
@stump182
3 жыл бұрын
Lives in Texas - Heated bed - LOL
@marcosmartinezgarcia1963
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Mikel, you can test cork sheets as a better insulation. Cork is cheap, easy to cut and also not inflamable. Cork has been usted as thermal protection both on Soyuth, Geminis and Apollo Space programs.
@stevesloan6775
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome use of that packaging foam. Great how you showed it’s thermal property. Got me thinking can I use this on my car..😂😂😂 “All roads lead back to a car”.. Or should it be, “what came first, the road or the car”.😂😂 Going by this video, I must say the Artillery X1 heat shielding ain’t too bad.... Heat shielding being the key word. 🤓
@extectic
3 жыл бұрын
Aerogel blanket material works up to 120 degrees C, with peaks up to 160, and Aerogel is literally the best insulation humanity has ever come up with. I may look into getting some for myself. There's also rigid Aerogel panels now that handle 300 degrees but... yeah, 300 x 300 millimeter tiles cost $500 each so yea, no. That said, 8 mm thick Aerogel blanket will also cost a chunk of change, it's something like $50+ for a piece that's a 1ft x 15 inches. Which should work for a 300 mm bed. Cheap? No - but you can literally not get better insulation, because it doesn't exist.
@MikiCab1
3 жыл бұрын
I got a good $1,000 USA into Prusa MK3s and MMUS and probably another $1000 into filament over the last 3 or 4 years. I think I would spend the extra money and buy insulation meant for high temp environments. Foam and heat are scary combination especially with a thermal runaway situation. I think I would pass on this recommendation for safety reasons.
@karmakh
3 жыл бұрын
You compared FLIR image gradients with no scale (min-max values). How can you make that comparison? Or did you have a fixed scale?
@felipenavas
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video and testing! I only missed the enclosure plus isolated bed together. I would like to see more videos about the enclosure and isolation. Also you could add a aluminum foil under on the foam to see if make any difference
@pawel7318
Жыл бұрын
I'll probably go for a acoustic mat. In addition to the fact that they are self-adhesive, they have certificates for non-flammability and non-dusting. The only downside is that they usually come in thicknesses from 1 cm.
@MrGerhardGrobler
3 жыл бұрын
AH! Yes, what have I done? I don't have money to buy those faboulous printer enclosures. So I repurposed the foam and the entire box to make a heated build space for my printer. A bit clumsy, but it works :p
@NathanCroucher
3 жыл бұрын
Can even use that foam as printer feet to help reduce vibration noise
@Keptains
3 жыл бұрын
Thats a great idea, but better in combination with a concrete flooring plate of the size of the printer between the foam and the printer
@fredwupkensoppel8949
3 жыл бұрын
Hey, I recently found this KZitemr called mr3dprint who apparently just cuts PET bottles into strings, squeezes these strings through a hotend and thus turns them into printable filament. I really want this to work, but the question is: Why doesn't everyone do this? In his recent videos he shows more of his setup, but it still seems too good to be true. Can you maybe take a look at his process and test out if it actually works?
@satibel
2 жыл бұрын
I have high temp adhesive foam with an aluminum backing, but I haven't benched it, though it prevents thermal runaway prevention from being a problem at under 15c ambient.
@douglasdippold8235
2 жыл бұрын
I changed the bed heater om my Flsun SR over to a mains powered silicone heater pad and insulated it with cork board underneath, with the aim of having a shorter heat-up time and higher max temp. But I made the mistake of using a 1/4" thick plate of aluminum to replace the thinner circuit board heater as a base. More thermal mass, heat-up time just as long, with a delay in the surface reaching the same temp as reported by the thermistor, takes longer for the bed to cool. Oh well, I'm not about to peel the heater off of the plate and ruin the adhesive. I guess that at least I'm putting less strain of the 24 volt PSU.
@matz4k
2 жыл бұрын
Have you ever thought about using a thermal pad (0,5mm) between the Aluminium sheet and the bed? Would like to see the thermal image...
@johnrobinson3642
2 жыл бұрын
I had been using some insulation that I bought off aliexpress, and that was OK but after about 6 months it had become dry and brittle. I was looking for an alternative right about the time ths video came out, and so I used the foam that came in one of the printer boxes. I tested that it was fire-proof before fitting and it was good, so I attached to the bottom of the bed. That's been working well for a few months now, but a few days ago I removed the bed and found that the foam had completely melted where it came into contact with the heater-pad. I print a lot of ABS (bed temp: 100C, enclosure: 60C) so it has been subjected to a lot of abuse. I realise that there is probably a large variation in the pieces of foam that come in printer boxes, and some may well be able to withstand the high temps that my printer is subjected to, but I just wanted to share my experience so that others who are contemplating this can check for themselves. So now I'm off to find a sheet of cork and see if that works.
@SianaGearz
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I had some LDPE from printer packaging. I taped it under the bed and tried it. It set off the fire alarm and partially evaporated. I am now successfully using cork.
@Christian-cz9bu
3 жыл бұрын
Those large aluminum heat sinks, um support bars, made a heat insulation barrier, trapping the heat in the center. As you can tell from the FLIR camera.
@PUBGX-nw9co
3 жыл бұрын
Can You make A Marker And Eraser holder on Onshape plz I really need it in school it’s part of my project to make one so Plz can you show me how to make on Onshape.🥺
@chucknorrispka
3 жыл бұрын
I had used my foam from my Ender 3 packaging and put it under the bed, but it was rubbing on my Y-stepper motor and nudging the front of the bed downward when running a mesh with my BLTouch. I tried unwinding the bed level screws as far as I felt safe to see if I could get enough clearance, but that endeavor was unfruitful.
@Charlerdfgh
2 жыл бұрын
You really should have mentioned that the power meter needs to be able to measure active power to get a reliable reading with this kind of equipment, many of the cheap ones can really only measure resistive power correctly but be way off for both reactive and active power. I have personally measured up a difference of over 50% when comparing a cheap meter with a more expensive one.
@peerrucke2599
Жыл бұрын
you have to cut free the tempprobe area. Dude seriously, i thought you were a techguy. I also highly doubt its an aluminium plate. At least my plate is springsteel.
@someguy2741
2 жыл бұрын
I coated the underside of the bed with RTV silicone. Its less than 10 dollars for a caulking gun sized tube. I used the high temp because why not. There is a lot of acetic acid off gassing until it cures a day later. It is safe to touch now and is completely fire safe and also non conductive. Also it cant fall off or debond.
@marksommers9632
3 жыл бұрын
Nice video. I sometimes wondered if this would help but never realized that it was something that some printers already had
@xxxxzorroxxxx
3 жыл бұрын
I mean is it considered very flammable just worried about doing something like that that’s why I never did it I thought about it long time ago
@mplabs23
2 жыл бұрын
0.384 kWh, or as they are known in the industry; 385 Wh. Metric is beautiful.
@windforward9810
3 жыл бұрын
Would like to see compared test on Aerogel Insulation , the foam and others. What is the flash point of each type of material which type is high and which out gases on each material is safer.
@SteadfastRC
3 жыл бұрын
Is there any risk of off-gassing anything toxic with the higher bed temperatures?
@DJ-wl5yi
3 жыл бұрын
Just watching this after randomly insulating my beds underside with leftover armaflex. Interesting 😅
@squirralien1863
3 жыл бұрын
I saw the other day an insulation pad that was a silver foil on the outside and not sure what sticking to the bed side. or maybe the sound deadener and heat barrier they use on car floors, Something like Dynamat ??
@robson668
3 жыл бұрын
Mylar and cork.
@MRKTM690smc
3 жыл бұрын
you mentioned insulating the bed decreased print times.... why would insulating the bed have any effect on print times unless you're referring to the speed at which the bed heats up.
@wturber
3 жыл бұрын
on the ender 3, it may help to keep the electronics under the bed cooler as well.
@someguy2741
2 жыл бұрын
The PTC heaters are self regulating... so the temperature is the temperature. It will heat up faster and maybe print better but the temperature of the enclosure is fixed.
@WaschyNumber1
3 жыл бұрын
I never thought they need so much power 🙁 I don't have a 3d printer. Why do the producer not telling people how much watts they need 🤔
@steveaurora
3 жыл бұрын
Another great informative video, did this to both of my printers when i first got them. an easy mod to achieve.
@VigilanteSystems
3 жыл бұрын
I like to use these Panels for install behind heaters, on the wall, they are Form too bit with aluminium coating and glueside..
@AkiWataru
2 жыл бұрын
for enclosures i prefer use only aluminium tape on whole plastic cover and will work just fine
@dalem04
3 жыл бұрын
This video gave me the idea of making an enclosure out of foam. You can get rigid foam insulation panels for pretty cheap. Something like foilboard would work.
@jakegarrett8109
3 жыл бұрын
I do that with dollar tree foamboard, looks ghetto but it helps.
@bitminer69er
2 жыл бұрын
I don't believe the FLIR camera model was stated however the power meter was.
@zpinacz
2 жыл бұрын
Really interesting tests and results. I dod enjoy this video a lot. Thank you.
@AmaroqStarwind
3 жыл бұрын
You should test the application of thermal compound between the Heater PCB and the print surface, that way the heat transfer can potentially be a lot more even. Also, you should slap some Low-E window films on the acrylic panels of the printer enclosure.
@indoorkite651
2 жыл бұрын
I'm no expert, but I think thermal compound would throw in the aspect of the bed being particularly hard to level. Unless you ran a glass bed. Or something with no flex at all.so that's an idea
@XfirejugglerX
2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking about using some aerogel insulation that I have around the house.
@hofmannjohann
3 жыл бұрын
hey dude, what if you use the insulation + some layers od Aluminum Paper
@yashraj2687
3 жыл бұрын
prime time for an Australian to wear DR3 t shirt... #honeybadger did it !!
@TechnologistAtWork
3 жыл бұрын
Doesn't seem like significant change that is working trying.
@tacct1kk715
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks to artillery for already doing this for me👍🏾
@hqjkat792
3 жыл бұрын
i made enclosure from thermocol CR-10 V2.
@izza6998
3 жыл бұрын
Have you considered using a copper plate under the aluminum bed? I'm wondering if that would make the bed heat more evenly, since copper is a better conductor. Similar to high-end cookware.
@ExtantFrodo2
3 жыл бұрын
Actually copper and aluminum have very similar thermal conductivity especially when compared to steel. Given that currently copper is much more expensive than aluminum would it really make any sense?
@TqSNv9R0iG5Ckxew
3 жыл бұрын
@@ExtantFrodo2 Aluminum only has 62% of the thermal conductivity of copper.
@ExtantFrodo2
3 жыл бұрын
@@TqSNv9R0iG5Ckxew and it's 64 cents per pound while copper is over 3 dollars per pound
@izza6998
3 жыл бұрын
@@ExtantFrodo2 How much copper do you think we'd be needing, exactly? My printer isn't THAT large.
@fuck_chinanobrain5011
3 жыл бұрын
@@izza6998 There is no need to add thermal mass - it will only increase the heating time.
@bassbassbasser
3 жыл бұрын
The packing material that came with my printer burns like tinder
@IronMan-yg4qw
3 жыл бұрын
you should used reflective tape on foam facing bed ya?
@WaschyNumber1
3 жыл бұрын
Ceramic fiber insulation 🤔 the kiln stuff
@Stef-an
Жыл бұрын
Alright, you convinced me :D
@VinnyG919
2 жыл бұрын
why didn't you test insulation with the aluminum tape?
@thingsmakingthings
2 жыл бұрын
@teachingTech Do you have any explanation as to why the power of the heated bed falls off during the preheating phase? Is it a PID/MOSFET interaction, or a change in the bed's resistance?
@alejandroperez5368
Жыл бұрын
Bed resistance changes with temperature, as with any resistor. But what makes the bulk of power change is obviously the power regulation from the control board, usually PWM is used.
@Thatchicstephanie
3 жыл бұрын
What about the reflective tape on the side of the foam closest to the bed
@pnwRC.
3 жыл бұрын
FANTASTIC video, Thanks for sharing! I wish I had thought to experiment with this when I had the space to use my 3D printer.
@rehon101
3 жыл бұрын
Could you make a video about ptc ceramic air heater
@brawndo8726
3 жыл бұрын
You need to put the aluminum tape over the foam, shiny side facing hotbed. Careful not to bridge electrical contacts! I reduced a 12v 330x330 heater from over 7 minutes to about 4.5. I really need to enclose that one... And upgrade the PSU...
@Lidocain777
3 жыл бұрын
I don't really use any kind of special insulation, since my printers don't use DC-powered PCB-type heaters anymore but mains-powered silicone heaters. It simply does the job. In the past, though, I tried cork sheets as insulation, as well as packaging foam. Surprinsingly, it didn't make much of a difference.
@flamy111
3 жыл бұрын
A added a piece of cardboard covered in aluminium tape covered in kapton tape (to prevent short circuits) attached with kapton tape to the bottom of the bed. Unfortunately the kapton tape got unglued and cardboard dropped onto the carriage. Anecdotally, the setup seems to be even worse than before. Your video gave me some ideas about using foam wedges to prop-up cardboard agains the bed. Now with the wedges, I was able to heat up the bed to 110C outside of the heated chamber. Previously I was only able to heat up the bed to 107C inside of the chamber. Based on this, I suspect that the bed cools down mostly due to airflow, and blocking it in any way brings efficiency and the reflectors might not matter as much.
@winandd8649
2 жыл бұрын
Tip 1; The bed insulation is essential for older style (12V) beds that struggle to reach higher temperatures. With insulation, such a bed can reach 100 C as where before it could not go higher than aprox. 85 C. Tip 2; Replace the 4 metal bed M3 screws by nylon M3 screws, which do not transfer heat to your bed frame :-)
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