So just like Power Girl's bosom the thumb for Spider-Woman's rear was removed. Once again KZitem shows where they stand on this debate? Lol They are not pro the Manara cover.
@fabiolinsleite
4 жыл бұрын
KZitem is run by fanatical superstitious puritan prudes.
@Ando1428
4 жыл бұрын
KZitem keeps unsubscribing me. Its getting on my nerves. Luckily clicking on these vids are a nice compensation.
@Wren4123
4 жыл бұрын
We.... Well my friend thanks you for actually including the thumbnail as the main centerpiece of the video, instead of it being nowhere to be found. He, my friend, who is not me, offers his gratitude
@TheBhoyPrime
4 жыл бұрын
Won't somebody think of the children?
@quiroz441
4 жыл бұрын
If I recall correctly rocket raccoon called her out about having her suit piece pointing to her lower lady part.
@Philibuster001
4 жыл бұрын
Readers: (are surprised to see ass panels/covers in comics) Nightwing fans: "First time?"
@blackrazer22
4 жыл бұрын
I get the feeling some of those complaining are pseudo fans. Sexy poses and ass on covers is so common could one remember them all?
@ramenman1819
4 жыл бұрын
Ong
@bluesnake4626
3 жыл бұрын
@@blackrazer22 like she said this was one of the first times that comic books were talked about in the main stream. I’m sure a good portion of the truly angry outrage came from people who had never read comics.
@blackrazer22
3 жыл бұрын
@@bluesnake4626 much of the outrage now days is from people who don't read comics.
@MRPandoraHartDR
7 ай бұрын
The Mary Sue raved about Nightwing's butt.
@Isaac-vq9gw
4 жыл бұрын
I seriously love how Sasha is able to talk about controversial issues without just demonizing either side
@lucariopokemon13
4 жыл бұрын
Yea some youtubers such as Comic book drake would be demonizing whatever side he doesn't agree with. I respect her by doing this.
@geigercourtier
4 жыл бұрын
What? Like “devils advocate”? Millions around the world do that in fact to avoid being what’s now called “canceled” you HAVE to do what this woman is doing. Do you love me for it? Do you love me for keeping status quo? Lol humans
@josephstroebele2792
4 жыл бұрын
Too true, that’s why I started watching her vids
@DiggitySlice
4 жыл бұрын
That just means she's not willing to commit
@samuelgrant8512
4 жыл бұрын
That's the first thing I noticed about her approach.
@WIImotionmasher
4 жыл бұрын
"Imagine Spiderman in that position" I can I've seen it many times He does it all the time. I'm not exactly defending the cover but like... that's a lame attack on it, Spiderman does that weird pose a lot.
@christianrapper
4 жыл бұрын
I don’t think that cover is a big deal. Spiderman isn’t drawn quite like that. He is drawn more in an action pose.
@kingsombra4053
4 жыл бұрын
christianrapper well if it was done dozens of times then yeah I can understand, however Spider-Man has been in that pose more than once, so Spider-Woman being in that one position one time I think is ok.
@ashemabahumat4173
4 жыл бұрын
The cover isn't an issue, just people screaming for attention
@christianrapper
4 жыл бұрын
Ravenray 167 spiderman spiderman is not drawn like that. His butt is not sticking out in the air like that. Did you watch the whole video? He is drawn in an action pose similarly to the altered version of that spiderwoman pose that was shown near the end of the video. If he was drawn like that you would see all types of homophobic jokes and memes. That spiderwoman cover was drawn specifically to be provocative.
@infernaldisdain8051
4 жыл бұрын
@@christianrapper Spiderman Has been in that pose 1500 times both on covers and in the books themselves; And he's no stranger to other poses that have either his butt or his crotch in full view. Sometimes in loving detail. The reason we don't have many homophobic jokes or memes about Spiderman is because he was a role model, he was getting it on a regular with a woman, and people like him and identify with him. To the point where there have been such memes but because he's so loved those memes don't get a lot of traction. We get more Superman is gay memes than Spiderman and if Superman was in half the poses Spiderman was in we'd get a lot more.
@icaruskeyartist
4 жыл бұрын
"Without the sexual element, the cover is pretty boring" Honestly, I think that's my biggest issue with it.
@TheTsugnawmi2010
4 жыл бұрын
"Imagine Spider-man in that pose" You mean his ICONIC wall-crawling postion that's so well-known there's literally an exercise called "The Spider-Man"?
@ololo518
4 жыл бұрын
There is?! Never heard of it (exercise, not Spider-Man)
@ariemaxi1196
4 жыл бұрын
i dont know anythin bout this exercise tho
@stevenlennon12
4 жыл бұрын
spiderman has been in alot of diferent open crotch shots over the years. lets start a "put a package on spiderman when drawing him movement" lol
@danielmeijer4782
4 жыл бұрын
HIS iconic pose is so different tho. You don’t have to have 20/20 vision to see that...
@jmgfx4161
4 жыл бұрын
Or how about the one where he is swinging and his bulge is front an center.
@y_s4021
4 жыл бұрын
When I first saw this controversy I was like: "wait, so people are surprised that an erotic artist drew a slightly erotic cover?" And the pose wasn't even that far from the usual "spider-person" pose....aand it wasn't even the official cover. Damn.
@primeoctober
4 жыл бұрын
Bruh the spider-verse characters have been doing poses like that for years, why now do they choose to boast over it? When i saw this spider woman image i didn't see what the problem was right off the bat because the pose is so iconic that it doesn't really strike you as offensive
@blutygar
4 жыл бұрын
I'm late on this, but I was about to sorta be on the side that maybe an erotic artist might not suit a comic on fighting action and not the other kind, but the fact that it wasn't even an official cover kinda switched me over. The fact they were arguing over essentially tribute or fan art and not a cover seen by a lot more people doesn't make sense.
@seanraines5871
3 жыл бұрын
@@blutygar people dont make sense. I agree
@galanakagalactus903
2 жыл бұрын
@@blutygar But Spider Woman always had a big behind in the comics even in the Silver Age of comic books.
@cqtaylor
4 жыл бұрын
It could be argued that Spider-Man, who wears a form-fitted costume, is in the same pose. Actually multiple similar poses when he crawls. It's subjective.
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but they never show his costume going into his butt crack.
@TheBhoyPrime
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 the cover to ASM #471 shows exactly that...
@medaanhil4133
4 жыл бұрын
Yes, and if little girls who read comics found his poses in his skimpy suits attractive we'd probably have spiderman and others dressed like santa
@rickledford2953
4 жыл бұрын
To thine own self be true
@dadsfreetimeclassicgaming1220
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 I just finished reading 12 erik larson spiderman comics. Petes sweatpants were going up his butt while he was shaving. Hes got a bigger muscle butt than spider woman for sure.
@bluelocimon
4 жыл бұрын
Marvel: releases an image of Spiderwoman showing her butt... Fans of Nightwing: hold my beer
@georgejcox9241
4 жыл бұрын
Good point.
@TheDevilFox.
4 жыл бұрын
I didn't get it but Nightwing is always showing Dick
@halcyon8783
4 жыл бұрын
Leandro Gomes There’s a relatively famous comic cover of Nightwing with some mighty glutes. Which is representative of a trend of other Nightwing covers I believe
@stephenjacobs5916
4 жыл бұрын
Ah Nightwing. The greatest ass in all of comics!
@juanguillermogarciabuendia6860
4 жыл бұрын
I see wath you did there
@GlassesnMouthplates
4 жыл бұрын
I'm with you on the biggest "sin" of the variant cover is it's just too bland and boring; it feels like Manara was indecisive whether to make it "subtle but suggestive" or "lewd and provocative".
@claysmell
4 жыл бұрын
"concerned with the sexualization of women in comics" - that train left the station long before the Manara cover
@pedroguerrero3862
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly, this have been happening for a long time besides the comic are actually quite tame if you compare to manga, in mean they allow to show full nudity.
@danielpratt1970
3 жыл бұрын
One word, Starfire
@christownsend7552
2 жыл бұрын
1940’s Phantom Lady would like a word…
@needlefoxx
4 жыл бұрын
"Imagine Spider-Man in that position instead, and the concept would have never gotten this far" Except it literally did. Issue #1 of Spider-Man: House of M featured Spider-Man in an extremely similar pose, with an equally exaggerated butt, and that one was the main cover.
@alexforce9
4 жыл бұрын
lol, I just had to google this and its true - his ass is work of art on that cover. But I think that the main difference is that Spidie's ass is shown very mascular. Its sexy but dinamic, its obvs that something is happening so its not just " celebration of the male form " , it shows action. Spider-woman cover on the other hand is boring in this point of view. There is no dinamic, the only thing that s happening is her being sexy as hell. Wich is ok, just not very interesting by itself.
@Wren4123
4 жыл бұрын
Whoopsie. Didn't include that did they?
@Ando1428
4 жыл бұрын
I had that book.
@cavaliertunes3332
4 жыл бұрын
Did Spider-Man on the cover of “Spider-Man: House of M #1” have a stupid pose? Yes. Did he have an overly-detailed butt? Definitely. Was his cover sexualized? No. Spider-Woman’s butt wasn’t the problem for a lot of people: their issue came from a concept they had trouble putting into words. It was more the fact that her pose suggested she was “displaying” herself. She was looking up, arching her back, putting her butt in the air. And it wasn’t drawn in a way indicating she was in the midst of fighting crime or doing something cool. It looked intentionally sexual, submissive, and objectified.
@07rayrod
4 жыл бұрын
Lmao just looked this up. Wonder is mary sue will make an article about that ass lol
@ajhill5094
4 жыл бұрын
This character has always been more sensual, one of her powers involves pheromones. It's not a big deal.
@georgejcox9241
4 жыл бұрын
Good point on that.
@highlivin1917
4 жыл бұрын
That explains the whole sleeping with Spiderman thing.
@crimsonvampyre602
4 жыл бұрын
“Being sexualized is part of her powers it’s not a big deal.” You know she was created by men right?
@danielwilson7193
4 жыл бұрын
@@crimsonvampyre602 And?
@notusingmyname4791
4 жыл бұрын
@@crimsonvampyre602 "'being sexualized is part of her powers it's not a big deal'" you do realize, she isn't a she right? IT is ink on page, not a real person, let artists create, let those who enjoy it enjoy it.. move on... like.. all of you.
@emperorg9910
4 жыл бұрын
I see nothing wrong with the cover, also i never knew there was a controversy.
@Crazy_Gamer_OG
4 жыл бұрын
Like most controversies, there isn't one until it's created & propagated by those who make money off it.
@peterl.104
4 жыл бұрын
This is ridiculous. I came to this video to see a bunch of possibly inappropriate drawings of Spider-woman and I get mostly talk. What a waste of time, hehe. Seriously, though, how was the pose not “functional”? Spider-man crawls around like that all the time. I’m glad I’m not a character crawling behind him.
@keymaster2024
4 жыл бұрын
What a shame, the world is Anti-booty.
@apiyothomas
4 жыл бұрын
especially when the country is ran by Butt- Pirates. Bend over Jack Sparrow.... I mean move over
@Fanboy0707
4 жыл бұрын
I would have hated to see the Twitter responses to the Marvel illustrated swimsuit magazine!
@kal0247
4 жыл бұрын
Thought I was the only one who had that🤔👍
@maxalaintwo3578
4 жыл бұрын
Disregard Twitter on anything. They're recreationally offended.
@quiroz441
4 жыл бұрын
Brad omg . It's like the ark of the covenant in Indiana Jones. They won't be able to look at such masogenystic displays of patriarchy.
@DrPluton
4 жыл бұрын
Twitter didn't exist when those swimsuit issues were released (unless they've released a new one since the 1990s).
@darthjatarra
4 жыл бұрын
@@DrPluton he said he would've hated to see what they would've said if Twitter was around in the 90s , that was the original post , we know it wasn't around back then
@MisterPuck
4 жыл бұрын
I remember when this was a thing. As I recall, people would respond to the “they’d never put Spiderman in this pose!” with pictures of Spiderman… in pretty much the same pose with an equally emphasized rear. There wasn’t really anything to get upset over, it was just an earlier instance of people who aren’t even comic book fans, let alone customers, making a mountain out of a mole hill. I don’t read comics myself, but a few youtube channels I occasionally watch talk about the industry sometimes.And what has trying to cater to the people who were outraged over that cover done for the industry? Pretty much killed it. Yeah, it’s still there, but it’s been going downhill for years now and was never a huge money maker. If they don’t course correct then it won’t survive much longer.
@danielpatterson5189
4 жыл бұрын
Pretty well. Almost all the sexy and appealing things about comics have gone by the wayside and now we're stuck with literal eye cancer like Snowflake and Safespace. Outrage Puritans ruining everything for everyone.
@commandercody1078
4 жыл бұрын
Daniel Patterson LoL. Snowflake and Safe Space are cringey but don’t act like there’s any shortage of sex appeal in mainstream comics, a genre where everyone is hot and wears skintight clothes.
@chrisbuttonshaw2088
4 жыл бұрын
but Spider-Man coming at us crotch-first is okay to those puritans lol
@Bladezeromus
4 жыл бұрын
@Professeur Râleur I remember when Captain Marvel was looking like Terry Bogard in one panel.
@coltondavis7022
4 жыл бұрын
Bladezeromus I would actually really like to see SNK x marvel or DC crossover (comic not game).
@RumForBreakfast
4 жыл бұрын
So the funny part about that cover and them saying Spiderman would never have had it done to him was it was an exact recreation of an old Spiderman cover just with Spiderwoman in the pose that time.
@maeburekaiser
4 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty ambivalent about the cover. I knew about the controversy over it at the time but it was hardly the most sexualized cover I'd seen in mainstream comics and definitely not the most sexualized content. The main thing that I didn't like about the cover is that it didn't do anything. It doesn't inform on the story or the character. It's just there which I think makes the sexualization more prominent since it's the only thing the cover has to do.
@starsiegeplayer
4 жыл бұрын
There was a Spider Man cover with almost exactly the same pose a few years earlier. When I first saw this spider woman cover my first thought was "Ah they are doing a Spider Woman version of that cover."
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but they never show his costume going into his butt crack.
@shr00mhead
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 Yes they do that all the time.
@nerdandnerdier887
4 жыл бұрын
bjmccann1 yes they do
@frankficcle7081
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 Google Spiderman house of M and just look at the cover.
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
@@frankficcle7081 I stand corrected.
@jesuslikeslsdnwiid
4 жыл бұрын
i love how ppl complaining about girls in comics dont even read them...they see a pic and spaz "women have other functions than being sexy in comics n it'd be nice to see more of that" go read x-men there is years of that you know jean or storm? both sexy/powerful, can dominate their male team members and are both interesting characters. They made two dark phoenix movies clearly the story is popular but obviously that story was just made to draw lewd pictures of jean. O.o Honestly society should be talking about the lack of fat ken barbie dolls its an unrealistic standard for a little boy to look like Ken even though its almost like little boys or fat 30year old men dont care cuz they arent the target audience for barbie.
@essaywhu
4 жыл бұрын
I’m tired of these new puritans. These characters have been banging around for years, usually off panel of course. And Storm’s earliest appearances in X-men were noted for her constant nudity. I believe there’s an issue where professor x had to chastise her for this.
@Dargonhuman
4 жыл бұрын
The grandest irony of that is, more often than not, the cover art has NOTHING to do with the story in the book. I remember buying several comics as a kid because the cover art depicted an amazing situation or conundrum for the hero(es) only to be somewhat disappointed that the actual story either never addresses the cover art or did so in a tangential way. For example, Professor X and Magneto screaming in each other's faces with "Final Face Off!" in bold letters only for them to calmly debate each other through Cerebro.
@favoritemustard3542
4 жыл бұрын
@@Dargonhuman What If..? they'd ended up in a Revolta/Cage kind of scenario? Bizarre Bazaar.
@xaviercolon9124
4 жыл бұрын
@@essaywhu what do uou mean puritans?
@essaywhu
4 жыл бұрын
@@xaviercolon9124 I mean these people who shun any type of sexualization and they think they know what is best for everyone rather than letting people decide for themselves. The puritans were the people who first settled in the USA, who were probably not exactly the most fun people to be around.
@KassTheLass
4 жыл бұрын
The funny thing is I was a huge fan of Milo Manara, his comics introduced me to Western Erotica. So I guess this probably was a predictable result of hiring him to work on a comic starting a super flexible spandexed woman.
@TheSterny
4 жыл бұрын
I have watched a few of your videos now. I absolutely love how you present controversial topics in a way that fosters discussion and avoids judgement. It would be great if people would emulate your approach. Thanks for the content.
@wonderwomanguy
4 жыл бұрын
When I was collecting I bought EVERY variant cover for Wonder Woman. I'm pretty sure I put one of my comic shop owner's kid through a semester of college.
@AllCoolThingsStoneMountain
4 жыл бұрын
OMFG, that cover was almost the exact same pose that the original Spider-Man had, and has made, dozens of times. Also, if you really want to see some great ass shots, look up Nightwing poses. Oh, and BTW, The Mary Sue is trash...'Sexist trash. -HERETICPRIME
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but they never show his costume going into his butt crack.
@jamall7003
4 жыл бұрын
But we all know how prominent Peter's ass is in almost every form of media he's in they are just trying to make a big deal cause this is a woman.
@nerdandnerdier887
4 жыл бұрын
bjmccann1 yes they did
@spydey2k
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 ASM #30 drawn by J Scott Campbell. its aaaaall up in htat crack.
@whitneymohrhauser8753
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 To get that costume that form fitting is to be paint on. I think the problem is that can children have access about it.
@adamkhan1687
4 жыл бұрын
“You’re here for two things: the cover, and the bootay”
@NathanBChampine
4 жыл бұрын
And?
@NathanBChampine
4 жыл бұрын
And?
@georgejcox9241
4 жыл бұрын
Amen my friend Amen.
@deaconblues9178
4 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the booty warrior falice Johnson from boondocks
@p11_studios
4 жыл бұрын
Basically why I’m subscribed. 😂
@RegisBodnar
4 жыл бұрын
The cover might not scream "Oh my God! She's back I've waited decades!" But it definitely screams "back"
@georgejcox9241
4 жыл бұрын
No butt.
@Dargonhuman
4 жыл бұрын
@@georgejcox9241 No, "Baby got back."
@EvaWebb
4 жыл бұрын
I actually did buy every single cover of this one.
@roxxyblade3104
4 жыл бұрын
You are the one.
@ManbatDetective
4 жыл бұрын
“ Women have other functions than being Sexy in comics! “ -👌🏽Best Line Personally I see it as just a comic cover! But I agree it has nothing to do with the content-story inside so I see why some were up in arms about it!🤷🏽♂️ 😝 😂
@Adventure-Media
4 жыл бұрын
I remember this controversy (or is it "controversy"?) and the thing that stood out to me was the comparison to Spider-Man, with critics saying "imagine if Spider-Man had been drawn in this kind of figure-hugging, butt-detailed, accentuated way!" When in actuality Spider-Man had been depicted in virtually the same butt-hugging way on a cover, well before the Jessica Drew controversy. Ultimately, people see what they want to see.
@casanovafunkenstein5090
4 жыл бұрын
It's not inaccurate to state that Spiderman has been in similar cover poses, though I don't think he was ever drawn with such an arched back. That being said we as a society have a habit of assuming that the female form is inherently sexual in a way that isn't codified for men, so even this subtle variation in pose probably solicited a much greater reaction from people than would have been the case if Spiderman had a cover where he had a big juicy bum on display. Putting aside the controversy I don't know if it's really a good means to introduce the character to new readers given that she's not just a gender flipped Spiderman and has an entirely different origin and power set. If there's anything that should be apparent it's that the artist probably wasn't familiar with the material and just drew a slightly sexier version of Spiderman with breasts and a different costume.
@thorprime2523
4 жыл бұрын
Not everything is for everyone, don't like it , don't buy it.
@DSMB9
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@slamrahovart9024
4 жыл бұрын
@@viktoriatheskinnynerd2674 I'm pretty sure he was referring to the cover its self. Don't like the cover, don't but the comic
@drewchase6577
4 жыл бұрын
That's my FAVORITE expression...👍🏾 It's not utilized enough.
@RikuHino
4 жыл бұрын
@@viktoriatheskinnynerd2674 buy the same comic with the original cover...
@falcon048
4 жыл бұрын
@@viktoriatheskinnynerd2674 Considering that Milo Manara didn't do the inside art, it's a fair assessment to judge it by the cover. It's standard practice in the comic field to hire a cover-artist to draw attention to a book; especially if the inside art is weak or the story sucks or the title has low readership. It worked, apparently.
@MrCoincash
4 жыл бұрын
"Imagine spider-man in this position" Bruh... I read a lot of spidey, you see his bum in tight fitting spandex for days; nobody complained.
@badgerbrowncoat5433
4 жыл бұрын
" a fusion between blogging and reporting... that has never quite unwound itself" - not only funny; but I think that's perhaps the best SUMMARY of a deeper concern; that I've ever heard. Great show, btw- but that- that concise , key, point- made me stop in my tracks.
@Symia_ChaosAMVs
4 жыл бұрын
If I can't imagine that character doing the thing or posing the way they're depicted and if feels out of character then it's probably been overly sexualized. Just my opinion.
@Skipray_Blastboat
4 жыл бұрын
Spider-man literally had dozens of covers in this or similar poses where his overly muscly ass is center stage. Tight suits that are basically painted on a god like nude body is the history of superhero comics.
@owendean907
4 жыл бұрын
I think it's because she's not shown to be muscular and the pose is very submissive. For Spider-man it's done as an action pose.
@9cookie2monster
4 жыл бұрын
@@owendean907 wtf are you talking about ? They both pose in the same way and spider-man isn't all that muscular.
@CMan-x7k
3 жыл бұрын
@@owendean907 Submissive? It's not like she's getting rammed from behind. If anything it looks like she just spotted a crime taking place.
@danielelliott4670
4 жыл бұрын
I remember this controversy and I’m going to be one of those guys who say it’s a double standard as you can find a thousand Spider-Man covers in the same exact pose. And as Sasha states it is just a variant cover. Yes it is “sexy” but it was likely supposed to be. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Personally I’d like to see an all male alt cover in Tom of Finland style.
@DispelBreaker
4 жыл бұрын
I don't see the problem with that cover art. Some people are a bit prudish. 🤷🏽♂️
@Jorge-cf6xk
2 жыл бұрын
You continue to impress me with your objectivity and flow. Thank you.
@stevenguitink5947
4 жыл бұрын
I think if anything, the way things like this were handled back around that time really did a lot to promote a lot of the divisiveness we see now. It seemed like much of what went on wasn't a matter of trying to guide people towards better ideas, but rather more the mindset of 'stop it' with no way forward. It's a lot easier to tear something down than it is to build it back up and I suspect it was probably more profitable too, given the clickbaity nature of it all. So you have a culture of people metaphorically stomping into someone's sandbox, kicking over their castle, demanding they fix it and stomping off, leaving them feeling resentful and bitter. I'm not saying everyone did it, but it seems like the most vocal ones were those that may have either deliberately or inadvertently done so.
@maxalaintwo3578
4 жыл бұрын
Spider-Man does that pose all the time. It's not objectification
@maxalaintwo3578
4 жыл бұрын
@Brainjock yes
@alexnorth3393
4 жыл бұрын
Not female though. I don't personally care but some of the logic in the comments is faulty.
@gbdeck200
4 жыл бұрын
Cover was fine, literally just her doing a spidey pose, which spidey does do as it's a reference But twitter and such uproar cause "male gaze" nonsense, the double standard And Mary sue is a terrible journalist website
@sorenfirestar2657
4 жыл бұрын
Honestly when I first saw the cover i didn't think it was sexual, just more of a sexy cover because I just assumed it was intentionally showing off the back muscles and making the butt more obvious. I only was like, "oh wow this is sexual" after I looked at his other work that was on his wiki page and yeah, I think he made this with the intent of being sexual but wanting this to be censored seems weird because I feel most hero's have some comic cover that is clearly sexual in nature and thus being mad at this seems misplaced at best.
@nycstreetpoet
4 жыл бұрын
I used to read Heavy Metal and there are frequent ads for his stuff in those.
@Sunstar808
4 жыл бұрын
The Hawkeye Initiative of sexy variance covers are hilarious but also make a point
@spiritcomics5655
4 жыл бұрын
I think Spider-Man has even been in that same pose that people got so upset seeing Jessica in.
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but they never show his costume going into his butt crack.
@nerdandnerdier887
4 жыл бұрын
bjmccann1 yes they did
@bobagucci502
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 what! They total have
@UnifiedEntity
4 жыл бұрын
@@bjmccann1 oh that's a lie.
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
I stand corrected.
@Captain8ball
4 жыл бұрын
I guess Spider woman’s existence is just controversial.
@Actionfan19
4 жыл бұрын
Well 1 of her powers is emitting a pheromone that drives men wild sooooooooooooo.
@coywarrior71
4 жыл бұрын
Just like you IRL!
@CB-yh3db
4 жыл бұрын
I didn't even know this was a controversy. Also, glad Sasha has her own channel now.
@VideoTelegram
4 жыл бұрын
I remember when New Avengers came out in 2005 and the rest of the team in Stark Tower is watching Jessica Drew is come down the stairs in her Spider-Woman costume.. Tony Stark: Ms. Drew, may I say in the most politically correct way possible... Luke Cage: Damn, girl. Tony: Exactly
@Walkyrjenny
2 жыл бұрын
I was a regular reader of The Mary Sue back in 2014, and watched this unfold in real time. I think your discussion is fair and balanced. Also? I love your Jessica Drew everyday cosplay. Also, also? I think the microphone bobbing in your cleavage is its own commentary on your position on women drawing attention to their bodies.
@galanakagalactus903
2 жыл бұрын
Spider Woman was my fav Marvel character when i was a kid 10 years ago and first read comics. It's sad that the only times sites like the Mary Sue would even talk about her was in a negative light and never about any of her great moments in the comics or her wholesome relationship with her best friend Ms Marvel/Carol.
@FabianBarajas
4 жыл бұрын
This is quickly becoming my favorite channel for comic book history
@MRspider236
4 жыл бұрын
I look at it like this. The artist has a right to draw what ever they want, but consumer has a right to not buy it. If the artist intention is mass appeal and money and not doing what they like to do that's fine but if they want to draw sexy women or men cause they like to thus making people angry or uncomfortable making less money and appeal that's fine as well. Oh and quick side note why is it that we can have people in comics literally being eaten alive with out a controversy, but sexy women on covers gets one. Cause for my sister she doesn't read or watch certain shows or books cause she can't stand gore.
@davismw2000
4 жыл бұрын
Right on like anime back in the 90's with uber gore. The "Comics Code Authority" was agreed upon by the comic book industry to banish gory comics like "true crime" comics which depicted a man holding a woman's severed head on the cover.
@plasticpeon
4 жыл бұрын
MRspider236 I guessed because some people are hyper sensitive toward certain things that must’ve stroked them in wrong way in some point of their life. So it becomes a “bump” in their thinking pattern....every time that “bump” comes up, they get all worked up about it. Lol.
@martinstein9553
4 жыл бұрын
Perfectly stated. Let the marketplace decide.
@commandercody1078
4 жыл бұрын
The marketplace argument doesn’t work as well because even the Big Two suck at marketing. Comics sales have been dropping over the decades and comics have been selling to a shrinking and aging demographic. A cover like this doesn’t appeal to children, their parents, adult women, or even a lot of adult men. And I don’t even think it was hypersensitive to call this cover out (which is arguably just consumers or potential consumers voicing their negative opinion of it). No other character (or at least no male character) would regularly be drawn like this. The most recent Spider-Woman #1 was the top-selling comic of March 2020. Jessica Drew was depicted on its cover in her classic costume, which was skintight to show off all of her idealized curves. But she also looked athletic, the situation looked action packed, and the comic cover suggested fun and excitement. None of this is in the Milo Manara cover.
@zettovii1367
4 жыл бұрын
@@commandercody1078 But why does that matter? People who do not want to see those things always had the option to not see them, those that want should likewise have the option to buy and read comics of their own liking. It's one thing to have opinions and allow people to dislike stuff, but this censorship business is little more than just dictatorship by people who at the end of the day never cared about the things they complain about.
@lionmanx
4 жыл бұрын
I love Drew's red outfit so different from Spider-Man...speaking of red looking good Mrs. Sasha
@100dfrost
4 жыл бұрын
I always loved that cover. I also love Michelangelo's David. Art should have no shame, and never bow to intolerance. I am a heterosexual male, and I do revere the female form, but art is art.
@mollytherealdeal
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video. It seems truly fair and balanced. As a former Roman Catholic, I remember an organization called the Legion of Decency, a Catholic organization that criticizes books, movies, comics, TV shows. They have no real direct political power, but a cultural one. However, in my more religious days, I felt uncomfortable with its authoritarian tendencies. It was an organization that used the freedom of speech to control how people think. All have the right to their opinion, but it tried to shame others into silence. In the world of social media, The Mary Sue and other websites like that act like the Legion of Decency. This controversy seem like censorship and click bait to me.
@RiiViiMedia2424
2 жыл бұрын
The sad part about social media is that nuance can easily get lost, and only the loudest of voices seem to be heard.
@Dargonhuman
4 жыл бұрын
Imagine having so few problems in your life that a fictional character's butt on a comic book cover is a source of outrage and controversy. I normally despise the term "first world problems" as a means of being dismissive of very real struggles a lot of people go through, but in this case, it's very fitting.
@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544
4 жыл бұрын
My thought exactly and judging by his replies so does the artist's
@Melkac
4 жыл бұрын
She literally talked about this in the video. Did you even watch it?
@Dargonhuman
4 жыл бұрын
@@Melkac So I'm not allowed to repeat the point to show my agreement with her? Is that how this works now, only one person in the world is allowed to say the thing?
@alexnorth3393
4 жыл бұрын
@@Dargonhuman Triggered.
@primeoctober
4 жыл бұрын
@@alexnorth3393 lmao wha?
@56postoffice
4 жыл бұрын
That's what you get when you hire an artist noted for erotica art. *"Reap what you sow"* comes to mind.
@Jellyvibe
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly. It's not like Manara sprang a last-second surprise on them. He gave the editor what was asked of him- a sexy cover. Freaking out about the art itself is missing the target. If any animus needs to be directed anywhere, it's at Marvel editorial.
@jonathangoode546
4 жыл бұрын
Dr Donald Blake lLMAO RIGHT ON. !
@Madwand99
4 жыл бұрын
The problem with that cover is that it was simultaneously lewd AND terrible. If it was only one of those, it wouldn't have sparked any controversy. High-quality, interesting, sexy covers are usually fine (and you showed a few of those). But if it's boring, anatomically incorrect, AND lewd, that's just bad in so many different ways and deserves the controversy. I'm sad you didn't show any of the Hawkeye Initiative takes on this cover, they are really funny and really drive home the point.
@matthewardill4297
2 жыл бұрын
The proliferation of special events is one of the things that drove me away from comics in the 90s and have kept me from coming back as a regular reader. I love these videos though, you sum it all up and make it so much easier to access. Thanks for the awesome work.
@signupstuff
Жыл бұрын
15:35 "I'm sure there are some people who did " ... if you want that variant cover today be prepared with 4 figures in your hand. All that controversy did was increase the demand.
@ThePopcornpassport
4 жыл бұрын
I never really saw a problem. I mean sure it's "out there" for discussion "but" I don't think it's a "big deal" wow... Maybe it was I went back and added the quotes because I noticed the quotable words. Any who, people always need a reason to complain. It's all good. Oh and yeah I remember Barbarella 👍🏾😎
@MysteryFoxx3506
4 жыл бұрын
(Laughing as I read the title... Sasha’s going to have fun with this) Outrage!
@miafillene4396
4 жыл бұрын
That Outrage artist vs. Frank Cho was an amazing series of covers.
@CT68
4 жыл бұрын
@@miafillene4396 YES! Now whenever I see Spider-Gwen, I hear "OUTRAGE!" Also, I get hungry for wheat cakes; seriously, if I ever discover that the Pancake industry had paid off Cho, I wouldn't be surprised.
@GavinMichelliArt
4 жыл бұрын
"You can show up, and anybody's dead..." Cold hard truth, especially in the 90's. Not even Superman was safe, for crying out loud.
@michaellee4276
4 жыл бұрын
The Manara cover was used as a pretext to have a conversation people felt needed to be had. Too often women in comics serve as objects, not realized relatable characters. Marvel was using this new series to tout their commitment to telling stories for and about women. So it seemed like an answer to the concerns. But right off, they have a cover where the woman is literally contorted and disfigured to make her sexier. Hard to get a better metaphor for dehumanizing women characters. As a variant, this cover may be no big deal, and there is nothing wrong with having some sexy art. But it served as a perfect distillation of the problem. It was never just about this cover. It was the pattern that this cover represented. Worries about censorship and prudishness or the worthiness of erotic artists were only distractions. Similar thing with "fridging." Killing or hurting female supporting characters is fine; people die. But if it is a pattern that women aren't developed and only exist as motivation for the men, that is bad writing, as well as sexist and alienating to women readers. When the violence seems salacious, the problem is magnified. It was so difficult to write this without accidental puns such as "well-rounded, fully developed women." ugh.... Dan Slott's tweets were embarrassingly clueless, stupid and illogical... Your reaction to Hopeless's comment about treating Jessica with respect was perfect. Couldn't agree more. The inside was worse than the covers. Spider-Woman saved the day by seducing bad guys. And Greg Land art. The series was so cringey they had to do a reboot by issue 5 with a new costume and new job. Which was a major outcome of this cover saga. (followed by a full reboot after #10)
@R._L.
4 жыл бұрын
Particularly to those who are familiar with his previous work, especially fans of European comics and erotic illustrations, this cover serves as a good reminder of how uncannily charming, and wonderfully beautiful, Milo Manara's art is.
@billyhyde1415
4 жыл бұрын
I remember when this cover came out - it was quite a few years after I had stopped reading comics (I stopped right around Civil War I), and my reactions to Spider-Woman at the time were related to my apathy for comics at the time. I remember thinking that while Milo Manara was an interesting choice as he's known for erotic comics, he just couldn't pull off the stylization needed for superheroes: Jessica Drew looks like she's in body paint, because Milo's style just . . . doesn't work with the bodysuit aesthetic of supers. He's not willing to stylize enough for the body to appear like it's in a skin-tight outfit. I also remember, well, being pretty Bendis'ed out at the time. He'd gone from writing Powers and Alias to writing EVERYTHING, and I wasn't interested at all in seeing him to what I perceived as a ho-hum take on a mainstream character in an established continuity -- and, honestly I had never been a big Spider-Man fan in the first place, if you can believe it.
@annana6098
2 жыл бұрын
I think the body paint look bothers me more than the pose really, now that you mention it. They're all in skin tight suits all the time, but there's subtle details that make it work. This isn't the only time I've got that body paint vibe, either, so it's not just this cover that I dislike it on.
@azuretiger-kfpmarketingstr6018
4 жыл бұрын
Honestly, that pic just looks uncomfy. Can you imagine wearing a costume where the bottom gets sucked up into your bottom like that? Wince. lol
@haysoos78
4 жыл бұрын
The MCU Behind-the-Scenes footage you never knew you wanted: just two hours of Tom Holland picking wedgies out of his crack.
@KennAKALeo
4 жыл бұрын
Comic book tights tend to do that on other body parts. How many super heroes wear shirts so tight that they get sucked into every crevice to expose his six-pack?
@IN-tm8mw
4 жыл бұрын
that's a know staple of spandex in general. which super heroes are known for wearing.
@siubrown3448
4 жыл бұрын
I remember when Captain America: The Winter Soldier came out. Every woman I knew fanned themselves as they discussed the helicopter scene, where Chris Evans showed off those biceps. I'm sure my friends and I are not the only females who swooned over Cap's guns. I'm also pretty sure that those same women are offended by this Spider-Woman drawing. To them, I say this, "HYPOCRITE! You sexualized a comic book character, too. And if you say, no, you were 'admiring' Chris Evans - the actor, the man - that's even worse! You objectified a human being. Shame on you!"
@CMan-x7k
4 жыл бұрын
I believe it was Civil War.
@PepperKatLancer
4 жыл бұрын
Woman here and i loved BOTH!^_^ We need more love and a lot less spite.
@jalabi99
4 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the whole "America's ass" sequence in _Avengers: Endgame_
@ololo518
4 жыл бұрын
I'm not exactly sure if staring at biceps and staring at someone ass is the same but I get what you mean
@DominantDesires
4 жыл бұрын
'First, you get one paddle...' I approve of this instruction. And would likely improve upon it.
@lgarner7581
4 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to say thank you for your in-depth and adult analysis of this particular variant cover. Your request (plea?) for civility/decency is something I wish I heard far more frequently than I do. These times are too toxic and adult discussions should happen among people who have reached the age of majority, imho.
@BatFan1
4 жыл бұрын
***WARNING**** controversial comment: It was all manufactured drama from people desperate for attention. If Wizard magazine was still being published at that time and THEY said something critiquing the cover, THAT would have been a The Rock-style eyebrow raising "hmm,maybe we should rethink this" situation. The fact people shunned Marana's defense (and frankly he didnt need to defend his work) goes to show how short minded they are because THEIR sensibilities were offended. That's not a Manara thing, that's a YOU thing. He comes from a world culture where sex and/or sex appeal isnt an issue. Who was the cover catering to? Manara fans or Marvel/Spider-Woman fans? and before you answer remember it was an ALTERNATE cover.
@jravage77
4 жыл бұрын
Spiderman is in spread eagle poses on almost every cover and nobody says anything. Double standard anyone?
@UnifiedEntity
4 жыл бұрын
And his suit is drawn in a way where it can just be his skin lol
@marcy2443
4 жыл бұрын
Big booty spider woman? I think I just found my new favorite hero 😅🤷🏽♂️.
@EDifyer881
4 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂
@erikhermansen3431
4 жыл бұрын
I love your energy. Seeing someone in flourishing in their element is beauty incarnate.
@padenal6069
2 жыл бұрын
I like what you said about how men and women are sexualized differently. It reminds me of how people share that post that redrew the original Avengers poster but had all the guys pose like Black Widow. Yeah, they look ridiculous because that's you can't put men in female sexualized to prove that men aren't sexualized to the same degree. (Especially when the MCU has a make male shirtless scene every movie)
@omarlawrence5239
4 жыл бұрын
Controversial. Scandalous. Lol. We love it and want more.
@younghan3573
4 жыл бұрын
I want Sasha's version of covers for a calendar!!! I.e. comic book girl..
@omarlawrence5239
4 жыл бұрын
Young Han good marketing tool
@georgejcox9241
4 жыл бұрын
Yes please.
@JackWard66
4 жыл бұрын
Please heavens don't let anyone know that Cherry Poptart exists...
@omarsantana3680
4 жыл бұрын
I've been gone from comics buying & reading for 16 years. not going back but I happened on one of your videos. saw a couple more including this one, then gladly subscribed. happy to be on board.
@masquerader101
4 жыл бұрын
I find it funny and stupid how Spiderman went from a street level character, to a dimension travelling, fate of the universe one. Poor guy. Lmao
@EricBinford
4 жыл бұрын
2014? I had already married and divorced by then, so this cover had to come "after" titles like image's Lady Death, Gen 13, and the like? I guess the genre went all Prudish after I had to stop collecting and raise kids.... ...bummer.
@philipdowns3506
3 жыл бұрын
Sasha, thank you so much for your voice of scholarly reason in reviewing controversy. I'm so fed up with seemingly 70-80% of the comic commentators banging on and on about "wokeness". It's refreshing to find someone who will explore a controversy without devolving into a polemic screed. Thank you.
@cursedbeasts9991
4 жыл бұрын
the wedgie must be painful there lmao on topic: I used to be on the "anti-skimpy comic book characters" camp but have chilled out since then.
@torbjornkallstrom2316
3 жыл бұрын
It was during this time period that another blog post got spread around arguing that female superhero outfit fabrics were drawn unrealistically and that they should basically be wearing the kind of spandex suits that you see in old school movies and TV shows (this only applies to the women, obviously). Glad we steered clear of that fashion disaster.
@rodshop5897
4 жыл бұрын
Not so much about the cover controversy (I came over because I didn't know that there was a controversy), but about Sasha's lapel mic. Only problem with that placement was when you were talking, it would sort of wobble around and reflect just enough light to be a distraction. Maybe a side location which allowed a collarbone or rib to support it a little would have led to less wobbling? Sound wise, it was great. Keep up the good content of the show!
@DCMarvelMultiverse
4 жыл бұрын
Noelle has crazy Michelle Bachman eyes. That explained everything to me after watching Faux-Ra.
@unlimitedrabbit
4 жыл бұрын
Nice one. I like She-Wrong myself.
@glennwatson3313
4 жыл бұрын
There is a phrase I have learned recently, "virtue signaling". It explains so much about the behavior of some people. "Look at me. Look how offended I am !!!!!
@movieguy1036
4 жыл бұрын
I don't know, I was very distracted by your bouncing microphone.
@jasonpye4649
4 жыл бұрын
Lol I noticed the wiggly microphone too.
@jasonpye4649
4 жыл бұрын
It was glorious 😀
@crispbeecrisbundyrun
4 жыл бұрын
Talking about "sexy" distractions - microphone. Love that you can be absolutely bipartisan on these topics. No absolute judgement but a few quips to let us know where you might stand.
@primeoctober
4 жыл бұрын
Very nice microphone ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@marktaylor6553
2 жыл бұрын
The pose makes sense... if she actually spun webbing.. out of the same place a real spider spins it (Hint: Its doesn't come out of their wrists). But I agree with the artist - there are bigger problems in the world, and a 'lewd' comic cover is the hill you want to die on, you need to reaccess.
@WeboKonAroz
4 жыл бұрын
The fact that you were able to summarize the plot of Spider-verse in 2-3 sentences deserves a sub.
@MNeilGri
4 жыл бұрын
One of the arguments that you mentioned, that always bothers me whenever it comes up (because it depends on an assumption that inequality is inevitable), and invariably is often demonstrably wrong (because that assumption is often wrong), was the assertion spider man would never have been drawn that way. The assertion makes an assumption that the spiderwoman cover was intended to be exploitative in a way that doesnt apply to men, and that female characters are not shown the same respect as male characters...with the underlying assumption being "because sexism". It is a claim to victimhood, not through any actual evidence, but because offence can be found if the right assumptions are made and the right motives projected onto others. The problem is, those assumptions are false (and are themselves often sexist/bigoted). The reality is, spiderman HAD already been depicted in a similar pose over a decade earlier. Amazing spider man #471. As you rightly noted, superheroes are often sexualized, because they are portraying the ideal physical form. And the existance of the body positivity movement, that rails angrily at any attractive, fit woman, shows that the outrage is rarely about the sexualization... it is about the shame they feel about themselves when seeing attractive people, and wanting to destroy those attractive people for making them feel that shame.
@Call-me-Al
4 жыл бұрын
471 cover looks more like the "fixed" cover at 16:16
@MNeilGri
4 жыл бұрын
@@Call-me-Al I disagree. The only real difference is the characters right legs. in spider woman, it's still hanging over the edge she's crawling up over (and her spine is curved/bent sideways appropriately for the movement.). In the "fixed" version and in spiderman 471, the knee is up over the object being climbed. but as far as the bootie and the angle over the character (and arch in the back, as opposed to the bend sideways), the original and 471 are closer. That said, the "fixed" version you point to is about "fixing" the anatomy. It is not about fixing the sexualization, which was the argument I was addressing. So not sure why you're addressing me here, since you're not addressing my argument. But whatever. Make whatever excuses you need to to justify the outrage.
@briang9581
4 жыл бұрын
I would have gone with the following defense. "There is nothing explicit about the image. If you see something that isn't there, then you must have a dirty mind"
@NelsonStJames
4 жыл бұрын
I like how the one article tried to explain how anatomically possible the position was, when you can question that with probably over 70% of superhero poses regardless of gender.
@GregoryCarnegie
4 жыл бұрын
There's no line for me. What's the point of being an artist if you can't draw what you want how you want? Female, male, non-binary, skinny, morbidly obese - it doesn't matter; draw your characters as sexy and provocative as you like and let the free market vote with their dollars. PS - Just subscribed, I like your channel.
@DOOMsword7
2 жыл бұрын
I love cheesecake in my comics! And I even think the artist is fine (in some contexts). But this cover was a huge miss for me at the time. The posing is just bad. I also appreciate you putting this ‘controversy’ into context. 2014 was a wild time.
@tron_9800
4 жыл бұрын
I remember seeing an artist doing a review on bad art and in one of his vid he reviewed this cover and talked why the art was just bad (and he did acknowledge that spider-man did this pose before)
@bjmccann1
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but they never show his costume going into his butt crack.
@solidspider6509
4 жыл бұрын
bjmccann1 It has. Stop going to other comments and saying the same thing.
@martinstein9553
4 жыл бұрын
The list of bad comic book covers not talked about by "artistes" and the intelligentsia would be endless. But they're not topics of discussion because bad foreshortening and awkward use of negative space can't always be used to forward agendas.
@essaywhu
4 жыл бұрын
That’s actually completely hilarious to me: Some no-name artist on KZitem criticizing someone of Manara’s stature.
@theskyisteal8346
4 жыл бұрын
essaywhu Pop Cross Studios is not what I would call a "no-name youtuber" but in his Good/Bad Comic Art series he has been very fair. I don't remember the video that well but I think he criticized the pose and the unrealistic shape of the butt. Both fair criticisms I would say.
@alphabetsoup6837
4 жыл бұрын
One thing I find priceless is Frank Cho's parodies of this cover.
@werewolf5
4 жыл бұрын
If the women are not hot in the comic, and on the cover, I dont buy. Talking to you Captain Marvel, cough cough New Warriors.
@MrA2Zor029
4 жыл бұрын
Dear Ms Wood, Again, a Brilliant Analysis Beautifully presented. One thing tho, Respectfully, your lapel mic needs adjusting. Unless you were suggesting a subtext? love Steve Holliday
@1mezion
4 жыл бұрын
Sasha is really funny, to tell the truth I never even noticed anything wrong with the cover. Anyhow life without some sort of controversy would be boring
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