Listening to Pastor Cam always brings tears to my eyes because I grew up listing to him preach. He was an amazing person and he left an amazing legacy within his sons and all of his grandkids. I know he is smiling down on Springs today and everyday.
@jmrod071955
3 жыл бұрын
Pastor Leon can you put some of Pastor Cam’s message on here. I loved listening to him and his exhuberance as he he preached. I turned my AppleTV on this morning and this one was at the top, where it belongs. Also, I second his saying that I am so honoured to have you as my pastor. Thank you for all you have done and what you are yet to do. His prophecies have come to pass, where your children are today, leaders. Love you Bro.
@lindaphillips148
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome!!🙂🙂🙂🙏🙏🙏❤❤❤
@lindaphillips148
3 жыл бұрын
Amen
@yoshifirebird1965
Жыл бұрын
Its an etheral feeling, its arduous to believe, that this video is 10 years old exactly today, and yesterday Pastor Leon would have been 60 years old, Cameron would have been 66 in 2002. Its amazing to think that what this video was silently advertising that is 'Live to Give, Vision Month' would have evolved into what is today, 'Heart for the House', I am overcome thinking about the cruel irony to the timing of all these things. It feels like it was either a few months ago, or a few years ago that Leon was joking about, all these years in ministry he contemplated all the best ways he could argue, apologetically, how to present his arguments when people would come to listen to his messages, he said he was a slow learner laughing and joking to himself, he later got the much greater wisdom, if he cannot get people to fall in love with the Word and do their own independent study then nothing he could say or do would have any lasting impact. I have to say its true, the real work Jesus can do is when you are in the middle of your storms, not stuck in the comfort and security of some church, but when you're on the fronnt lines fighting your war, whatever vocation or profession you're in, when all the simple Pavlovian and Skinnerian associations in your mind are playing out, something sets off a trigger of anger or fear, or depression, or skepticism, contempt, some other powerful negative emotion rises up in your heart, in your life, and you're about to say or do something to fight or flight, that's the real litmus test of everything Leon taught, everything in the Word, everything Jesus was, is, and will be, all that he has done, and yes, that is the litmus test of Spirit Contemporary, can we do miraculous things, and can we be the real badass salt and light, a unique and meaningful answer, to meet the novel situations in our (seemingly mundane) everyday lives. That is what remains. One week ago today at around 5 PM in the evening I believe, Leon breathed his last and went home to be with the King, and it consumes me to think about, that this intergenerational legacy, this multi-thousand? no, multi-million soul - and dollar, ministry, how unqiue and how precious it is, that is must remain, that the power of the nuanced balance between culture and ultimate purpose and meaning that is Spirit Contemporary, it must live on, it must not die, but one generation must confess it and pass it along to the other. It is hard for me to imagine in myself personally but Cameron and Leon were right, if we're really inspired by them, if we really love them and what these two men could do, we must remember what was said in the Old Testament, one will set to flight 1,000, two will set to flight 10,000, and what Jesus said in the New Testament, you can just imagine how epic that casual conversation would have been, like someone showing off something cool they found to their friends, "you like this? you want this? you won't believe what I have to say next, the things I do? you can and will do them also, and wait for it - better things still, because I go to my father." Its so hard to imagine right now, and its a little insensitve to say, but an awesome thought, someone is going to fill Leon's shoes, it may take a few years to germinate but, like he said, better orators, better soul winners, better encouragers, it may be among his associate pastors, it may be Sally rising up in like a John-Joel Osteen story, it may be one of his children or their spouses, it may be multiple people tag teaming it off in a new and powerful dynamic, oh the media likes to put their angle on this, and yes its the elephant in the room, that this church really did feel like Leon's personal brand, and his presence, his power, one could very easily and necessarily come to that conclusion, but we must remember what was said in the book of Acts, of a truth I perceive, that God is no respector of persons, what he will do for the one, he will do for the other, the real genius behind Leon's life, I recall him saying something years ago, could have been to Calgary, this was a really old message probably dating back over a decade, he said, its not that me and Sally are so exceptional, but its that we serve a big God, and I believe that. There is so much purpose and meaning, encoded, stored up, hidden, value, encouragement, purpose, and meaning, to be found in the bible, not just all the easy and happy places that televangelists and big ministries love to monetize, but you can even go into a dark dark somber book like the book of Ecclesiastes and you find a little bittersweet encouragement like, you see by wisdom a man's face will be changed, and you can take that in parallel to Moses being on the mountain with God he came down and his face radiated light, you can go back to the New Testament and out of incredible tragedy of the disciples losing their dear friend, their lord and savior Jesus, but they were so imbued with power that I think it was Peter, his shadow healed people, when you know the scriptures, and you can really meditate on them in respectful, but novel ways, get that imagination working and be being filled with the spirit, and the wisdom inspired thereby. Well what I am trying to say is that, even if you look at Leon and Sally when they were very young, they were just another couple, and I mean no disrespect in saying this, but I really think you can see them change, literally on the inside and outside apperance, youth renewed like the eagles, whatever things had to change so that we could all take it in, and feel the persuasive power, whatever it took to relate to people, but you can feel that goodness and lovingkindness from God, that draws people in, that brings them to repentance, they begin to refine their beilefs and they begin to think another way and dream another way, about everything in their lives, positive and negative, and they are really there, all old things become new, that is Salvation for a new generation. If God could do it once, he can do it again, we've heard stories of your greatness in former generations but we humbly ask Lord and Father, would you do it again in our midst. [Insert the Joel Osteen December 27th, 2020 Service Here] but in all sincerity. I'll be watching this ministry diligently, I would endeavor to say, few people will have taken Leon's passing as personally as I have taken it, I couldn't focus, I couldn't work all week, I could barely sleep, I'm just going back over the media this man has done over the years and downloading it all, the wise will store up wisdom, when they don't even need it. But what is so important is not just all we can take from this man and his ministry, but all we can give. I've heard it said years ago "The secret to living is giving" and as trite and corny as that sounds its true, no matter what we acquire, whatever our ambition compels us to take from this world, the only reason we grow and change and acquire and store up, is to exchange, you're always giving something to someone, even if its only your time and energy and not yet your money, but stop and think deeply about anything you do in life. You're always giving, you're always sharing, you're always leading and influencing wherever you go, whatever you do, someone is watching and absorbing what you do, we'll never know the cascading influence of our lives, even if we steer clear of massive success or the temptation to seek it.
@yoshifirebird1965
Жыл бұрын
What I want to conclude with is this, in 2021I found myself facing one of the hardest philosophical and political questions that underlie huge ministries like this, they say they love God but then why do they scale, are they not grifters, do they not have a form of godliness and yet deny the power thereof, I will say this, Leon fulfilled and gave my life purpose and meaning these last eight years, and that is not just false hope, just hypnosis as he steals your money. I asked myself the mortal question of all our modern capitalism, Is capitlism itself Godly, is private property Godly? In 2021 after Paula White and Kenneth Copeland made right fools of themselves and the rest of us Christians by association on the world stage. So I had to weigh my conscience, I have had to for years listen to traditional Christians, especially the really vitriolic and vocal hellfire and brimstone 'Reformed' Calvinist, Cessationist Christians, the real stoic hollier than thou Christians who rightfully, expose some falsehoods and some harmful things that permeate popular culture and modern society in almost every significant area, but I had to see it for myself, so I resolved at the beginning of 2021 that I would immerse myself in the large ministries and listen deeply to everything they teach, Joel Osteen's ministry, Kenneth Copeland's, Paula White's, and yes of course, doubling down on all media Springs (Springs Church, Leon Fontaine Official, and Miracle Channel) And I have to say most of the major differences people have are battles of words, there are no huge heresies in any of the ministries I've just mentioned, if there are any huge dangerous doctrinal errors well its as the bible talks about, the little foxes spoil the vines, if you expose yourself to enough different ideologies in your life, and are willing to hear arguments for and against, and are a free thinker, I don't see you in great danger from any of the aforementioned ministries, I really had to weigh my conscience on the biggest offender and that is the following, does Jesse Duplantis or Kenneth Copeland really need anohter airplane? It was a hard-won conclusion but I'm of the strong belief, that as hard as it may be for people to accept or believe, the moral opportunisty costs that everyone likes to place on large ministries really do not exist, if they really did, people would vote with their dollars to put them elswhere, Jesus himself said "the poor you will have with you always." There is no dollar amount of money that we could really give to all the poor helpless and suffering people in tihs world. Leon himself had a quote that he shared once that went like this "Capitlism is the unfair distribution of wealth, sociliam is the unfair distribution of poverty." Its relatively correct, Jesus did not call us to meet every felt need in this world, no amount of money or charity can make people feel loved, can solve all the systemic problems, structural violence, the social and mental issues that create poverty and human suffering, the most valuable thing that these large ministries can do for the most expedient price, is to fill people with the Word of God and teach it in such a way that will empower people in whatever situation they're in, no matter how high, no matter how low, you can have all your comforts and felt needs met and still be miserable and without purpose, or you can be in poverty and in pain, but doing something with such purpose with your life that you're in what modern psychology has called "Flow", your hypothalamus, your brain on so many levels will ignore superficial discomforts like hunger, the heat, the cold, or fatigue, as you focus and draw in towards some greater vision, and many of the world's creatives, entrepreneurs, and visionaries, will tend to agree with me. As I walk out my late 20s and as I gather up wisdom on both sides of the political aisle, I have to say our world on a material level is full of paradoxes and contradictions, and I'll defer back to the book of Ecclesiastes as the litmus test of all of this, humanism is a bit of a joke, not that I don't think the human race should progress, but I'll quote one commercial I heard on TV here in Canada some years ago "We keep making better things, why can't we make things better" That is why ministries here like Springs are so relevant and necessary, and even as Leon passes on and from what we can glean publically, he left behind a $10 million dollar net worth, well, consider this, the spiritual, the mental, the emotional, the psychosomatic, comfort and encouragement he spread all over the world, are worth orders of magnitude more, than what he took out of the economy, any number of millionaires could have donated all that money to charity, gave a couple thousand people a few meals, but that world would still be the same cold and desolate place, again, read the book of Ecclesiates, there is no purpose to either pleasure or pain, whether you are at the top of your game or hte bottom, nothing matters under the sun, meaning, nothing under the purview of the five senses, or scientific investigation, everything that matters is above, the sun, its a hyperspace, its beyond what we can measure and know in 3 to 4 dimensions, I mean whatever you believe about the material order of this world. Solomon said it best, better are the dead than the living, and better yet to have never been born, not to get cnotroversial but with talk of a great reset, it would seem the world's most successful people seem to be moving in the same callous direction, but once again, that is why Leon's Return to Reason series was so special as well, he believed something that is hard-won to fight for, but if you've seen it in your personal life and you've seen what God can do for you, an average person, you would believe God can do it for anyone, that is a libertarian ethic/ethos, that human beings, were meant to govern themselves. I want to nuance myself, as one of Leon's most powerful sayings was this - for every mile of truth, there are two miles of ditch, in that saying we see that while searching for truth, we tend to find polarized over-simplified answers to life's problems, on the one hand, coming out of the other side of this world health crisis we could desire to submit entirely to experts, or we could be so jaded that we decide I'm just giong to listen to my gut and do what I want to do. Leon so challenged us that we need to have a conversation, alternatives to anything must be discussed, humans should not be coreced to do anything, even in periods of immense panic and risk, we so honor and value our public health experts and experts in other fields, but a spirit of socratic debate and alternatives must be mutually honored as well, and we are in grave danger if our society has devolved to a point wherein we canot have that discussion anymore. It would be a hard world to live in, and it would defeat democracy, if we supposed that our lives have become so compartmentliazed and the facts that govern our world are so subtle, so nuanced and complex that only experts could guide our lives, that we have no input or influence upon the process, that is a very cynical view of human nature, and perhaps its a commentary on capitalism and industries, that in the name of pursuing a profit, made a synthetic world so complex that it moved a lot of resources and made a lot of livings for those people involved in those industries but is rotting the social foundations of our society, but I won't go off on that side tangent. Ultimately society should be so structured that the average person can be educated on the meaningful facts that govern his or her life and make meaningful decisiosn in that process, and I would argue if we're beyond that point, if we've built our society, our systems, our structures, our industries, and our technologies to such a scale wherein that is inexorably false - well then I say tongue in cheek I hope all those legalistic and paranoid Christians and ministries are right about all their end times eschatology fear mongering, as it would be better to say "Come quickly sweet Jesus" But I'm so far off on a side tangent I don't have time to unpack things you have to research and think deeply about yourself, the point I was trying to finish was about the nature of large ministries gathering wealth that seems to benefit those at the top. I think we have to be very very careful as I will defer to a scripture that I would hope everyone on either side of the aisle could see the wisdom in, one that I heard from Leon himself years ago in a message called 'attitude is everything' where he talked about 1st Samuel 16:7 when Samuel is to pick a king to succeed King Saul, and God says to him "Do not look at the height of his stature for I have rejected him, For I do not see as man sees, man judges the outward appearance, I the Lord judge the heart" it is very easy for us to look at deceiving outer appearances on either side of any issue, someone can look too wealthy and you think, agh that's an arrogant and greedy covetous and revelrous person, that is why they have so much resources, ironically on the other end you can look at someone who looks so low and meek and humble but you can be deceived by the outer appearance on either side. Solomon himself poked fun at this either in Ecclesiastes or Proverbs, he himself being quite wealthy, but he put a desultory footnote on it talking about "the poor who have learend to walk among the land of the living." And again if the bible is not an authority on anything for you, that is well understood, perhaps you'll hear the words of a legend such as Abraham Lincoln who said "People who have few vices have few virtues either" In other words, stop judging the outward appearance and change your focus.
@yoshifirebird1965
Жыл бұрын
Wisdom says what the bible says, a workman is worthy of his hire, and if $10 million was the price to inspire a man like Leon to influence people all around the world into the kingdom, I would say its modest pay, I'd even go on to say, he was underpaid, just along with my earlier point about outward appearances, we only see the wealth they keep, I know for a fact people like Keith Moore, Jesse Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, Paula White, Kenneth Copeland, they give away more money than most of you will ever make, so can we just make peace, come together, give to some cause greater than ourselves, I would sooner trust these people than any of the secular charities out there, if you really begin to dig under the superficial appearances of most institutions in this world, the raw corruption and ulterior motives, the personal incentivses, are so high, it humbles us all, give reasonably to any causes you want to believe in, and get involved in the causes you want to see change the world. Be the change you want to see, get bitter or get better. I for one am going to hold fast to what Leon taught years ago in a series called 'pursuing holliness' when he taught on a radical verse in the bible that says what we really shoudl have learned years ago as it pertains to judging others, whether they be objectively good or evil "To him who is holy, all things are holy." I really am flagellating this dead horse because this is the biggest barrier to us collaborating and working together on the great cause of Christ and the Gospel. Ironically Kenneth Copeland said it best at one of the victory campaigns in the past two years when he talked about A.W. Copeland his father and what he taught him in business and in life, See a man who hates liars, can't stand liars, always suspicious of liars, that man, is probably a liar, and that is true and profound wisdom. Copeland himself has given away over $80 million dollars that we know of, of his massive net worth, and I imagine how much we cannot learn of or have disclosed because it would really defea the purpose and the reward of giving. The moral lines that separate good from evil are so subtle its not worth judging anyone about, just be a real person, get involved, if you can do nothing else, God loves a cheerful giver, find your level, the government will tax your income regardless, so you're always giving to someone, you may as well lighten your heart and take some control, if you really distrust certain people, pray for them, give modestly, believe they can change. You know its so funny to me, even in the bible, we see Copeland's principle walked out here, Judas Iscariot, so concerned about a poor woman, who was probably promiscuous as well, herself just a mess, not knowing what to do to honor this Jesus who was passing through her town, so she spilled and spread an expensive perfume on Jesus feet and begun to just weep in his presence, and wash his feet with her tears and this perfurme. And on a surface level this is such an awkward and weird, even a cringe gesture, but walking out that princpile Leon talked about earlier, to him who is holy, all things are holy, Jesus knew her heart, and knew she was moving in the right direction, still odd and rough around the edges, but there was penitence, and the best thing he could do in this situation was to bless her, accept her, love her, forgive her, for soon he himself would be dead and gone, that transitory gesture was enough I bet you, to compel this woman to clean up her life and only good came out of it. Back to my point about Copeland, Judas could care less about the poor, he managed Jesus money because that is all his heart was after, was money and increase, and we see this because that's all that was on his mind, the monetary value, he didn't see this as a precious soul, one of a select few who would ever get to meet the King of Kings in the flesh, and be so forgiven and see heaven, as an archetype, as a type and shadow, example and inspiration unto all of us hundreds of generations down, the return on investment of that longer term thinking was much higher than that one bit of waste. Once again to give final authority onto this argument I feel the need to take it out of the bible and to a quote I've carried around in my head and in my heart for years from a man named Hermann Hesse "“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.” Ultimately if I had to say a final word to all the crtics and cynics both inside and outside of hte faith I would say this. If you really believed any organization were corrupt, you would humble yourself, get involved on the ground level, and find your way in, be curious, get involved, serve, work your way up to a psotion of influence in that organization, and serve and give of yourself until you could influence the influencers, and you would get your answers. One of the most precious life lessons I ever learned from Leon came from a leadership series he did years ago called 'Understanding Leadership' where he unpacked, leaders are not perfect people, they are often very flawed people who have risen to a height of prominence and eminence because they have one remarkable skillset or ability, that they can leverage to serve others, and that is the test of following anyone is if you'll be willing to learn this, meet your heroes, become disillusioned, but still so honor and respect them in their humanity. I guess I'm all over the place now, I could still say so much about some of these tough topics that are going to be on peoples hearts at a time like this, I've barely scratched the surface, for instance I just went back to re-read all I've wrote and I neglected to mention that a sizeable amount of Leon's fortune probably came from his excellence in the secular leadership world as well, the skills it took to scale, lead, grow, Springs Church, Springs Christian Academy, and Miracle Channel, to the places they are today are just phenomenal. I was once told that Leon could have given a conference over a weekend and been paid a $30,000 fee, I fully believe that, again deferring back to what I said earlier about one or two putting ot flight thousands . . .
@yoshifirebird1965
Жыл бұрын
The treasure of this man and his ministry is knowing this, if you as an atheist or agnostic, or even you as a Christian, maybe you've believed for years, some of us are so concerned in this world about how nothing we could ever do would be enough for God - that's completely correct, but you have to by faith, lean in enough, find the joy, find the inspiration to read your bible, for all the negatives and all the warnings contained therein about righteousness and getting our lives together, there is also grace to cover all, just like how you can pop the hood on your car, start taking apart that engine, and you look at the pistons underneath that engine block in their tightly perfectly machined cylinders, you can run your hand, examine it all with your eyes it all looks so pristine, so perfect, but again, its a deceptive outer appearance, under a microscope that thing is a mess like a wirebrush, its all coarse, and if you fire up that engine with no oil you'll blow that thing, but God's grace is like that oil that lubricates that engine so all those microscopic imperfections don't matter anymore, we were never meant to do this life alone, human nature was not designed for it, so as oil lubricates an engine, grease lubricates a pan, so grace lubricates our hearts, and crowns our efforts with success. If you're so concerned that you've offended God today, yes, you have, welcome to the party, I could smile giddy and laugh and just shake your hand and say, you're among good company. The genius of Leon's ministry was that he knew, you'll never really much offend God as you have right now already, Jesus already died, he already paid it all, already knew everything you would do wrong, past, present, and future, and the genius thing you can do to follow after Leon's example is, you know in your heart, nothing you ever could do could so separate you from God more than you are right now, so know the promises of his word, know exactly what his Word says you can have, and then press in for it, run for it, irrelevant of who you offend, another large ministery, I think it was Miles Munroe used to talk about, you have a calling on your life, run the race for it with endurance, casting off every weight, for your work you are doing for His kingdom? The word of God literally says, turn not to your side to pay homage to any man, and that - that is why Leon could be such an iconoclast, he lost the fear that he would offend God, that he would offend man And in that place he could walk out some other scriptural principles, i mean most people have never even been taught the bible properly, you have been given the free gift of Rigtheousness, I mean you look this up online, I'll give it to you the best I can from memory, that first one I believe is from Romans 5:17, here's another one, he became sin whom knew no sin so that we might become his righteousness, 2nd Corinthians 5 :21 I think? You combine and rightfully divide the word of truth, you can put bible verses like this together to make a delectable recipe for the good life, so that whatever you go through in this world, wheter you work all your life to be an overnight success and you go so riding off into the sunset as Leon did for the last 20 years, or whether you live out your life in what seems and feels like modest obscurity, God always has more for you, and you can always press into it with joy, and with that joy, lean in and draw from the wells of salvation. As for Springs and the concept of giving? I used to give years ago when I was living at the University of Manitoba, but I slowed down in 2017 as my finances took a turn, I regret that lack of obedience - and again before I freak anybody out who has been reading too much of the negatives out there, no, not obedience to this church, you don't have to give anything, but I mean obedience to God, you should know biblical princples, you should know your Malachi 3:10, God wants to richly bless those who are generous towards others, however that return comes back, it may not be monetary, but it may be protection and edifciation in so many other areas. These principles of reaping and sowing, giving, is not just Jesse Duplantis needing another airplane, these are princples that apply specifically to the Word of God but if I may go a step further. I don't get all my wisdom and all my supports in life from Leon alone, as brilliant as this man and the people he raised up around him, this man wasn't my only wisdom/support structure through life, but he was by far, the first and most eminent one. I have a secular mentor who I've heard speak on this concept of giving, its not just a religious principle, the world's most successful people, top performers and influencers have learned the signifance and the power of giving, that it always comes back to you in some significant way that defies rational explanation. Its an amazing thought, that even though they don't know, nor fear God, they still have the fear and awe, the wisdom to know to give, should not we as believers so hold ourselves to the same standard? Examine and study and learn about the causes you give into, I can say after eight years of watching everything Leon and his ministries have put their hand towards and into, this is good soil to sow into, there is wisdom, love and integrity uncommon here. I so believe in this place, Springs, I would be willing to quit my job and find a way to get involved here if that is what it called for over time. I will be watching ever diliegently, how the God of all peace will be with Leon's family and associates, employees, volunteers, Kingdom Builders, everyone in tihs period of transition, how he gives them witty inventions and ideas as God finds a way to make this situation whole and pivot out of tragedy. As for Leon himself, I loved the man more than I love life itself, I have a backstory, I have baggage, and I have stuff, I always thought I would have more time to get my house, my affairs in order, and I would later convene and come home to Springs and get closer to Leon in those last days of his life, but time and chance happens to us all. I will get to a place where I will download, buy, bargain, find a way of getting every piece of media, every resource this man ever produced, until I have myself immersed in his life and his work until I'm virtually sick of him, you really cannot put a full value on peoples lives until you finally see every chapter in their book finally written. Solomon once wrote that the end of a matter is better than the beginning thereof, well in this sorrow, in this unbelievable season, I will put his words to the test, I will press in for it, stir up the gifts, take it by faith, but the one thing I must ward off is the temptation to give up, to get nihilistic and disillusioend and bitter. I must believe to see the goodness of God in the land of the living, I must see the anointing of this man's life out in my own, because of Spirit Contemporary we can have a channel into the divine things of God without contorting ourselves into nutcases, granola, nut, oat, flake, weirdos who are so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good (to quote Francis Bacon) we shall see that the best is yet to come. PS: Some final thoughts, I omitted the part of why Leon was so bold is the bible literally told him he could be, I forgot to mention one of his favorites, come boldly before the throne of Grace, Leon coudl have a big life because he was unashamed to ask God for it, so should the rest of us, if we know God's word, we know his Will, we know what we can have, now, there are two more lasting thoughts I wanted to add about how its just that such massive heinous wealth inequality exists in the world, I won't virtue signal towards meritocracy, its much much more subtle than that, but its modelled out in the bible, a concept i learned in August of 2021, its called the scandal of particularity, if you're a parent and you have chidlren, and you want them to share, how do you train that kindnes, that behavior, one could argue the socialist method, you evenly divide resources among all the kids, that may work superficially, but in doing so, you can never make the kids love and care for one another, if anything, if you want that to work you keep them apart and hope they don't fight and argue in greed to want what their siblings have, no, in a contradictory manner, you actually give more resources to one child, hence the concept of 'firstborn' in antiquity, and you find a way of imbuing the values of sharing in that child when they have more, the older will serve the younger is a biblical principle, moreover, that may be translated "the greater will serve the lesser", its common sense, its not always satisfying, but anyone from a larger family should be able ot speak of its veracity its one of life's simple yet not immediately satisfying truths. Final PS: And connected to that concept of the scandal of particularity is this concept I came across this year from a centirst historian Christopher Lasch in his book about 'The Revolt of the Elites', this concept that is lost to our culture, historically, wealthy people did have a moral qualm with being too rich, there was something called noblesse oblige, wealthy people once knew and had compassion for the vicissitudes and the disadvantages of those who cannot perform and so provide for themsleves as themselves, well, I will maintain that I think these large word of faith and 'prosperity' ministries, are closer to that model, than many of their secular counterparts, there is always room for improvement, always room for growth and humble and cogent debate and criticism as we seek a better world, but outirght vitriol and vilification, demonization of sides will help no one.
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