After hearing about the RSO that died due to a CZ Shadow hitting the ground and firing I’m going to say LEO’s should have drop safe guns. It’s not worth the 1 in a million chance that you kill an innocent bystander.
@jamesbrown6330
14 күн бұрын
I remember hearing about this as well
@BenBelkin
4 ай бұрын
The chances are slim that in real life conditions a series 70 gun will drop and fire, i think we all recognize that. But it can definitely happen, I think we can also all recognize that. If I were in charge of an agency, I would not authorize these guns because there are safer options. As far as individual ownership, caveat emptor.
@jubjub905
Ай бұрын
The new Garand Thumb video makes this interesting
@ArmadilloArmament
Ай бұрын
@@jubjub905 now I just need as many views as his video!
@DavidLyle65535
3 күн бұрын
Would love to see someone run the drop test with a titanium firing pin and a heavy spring. Not gonna be 100%, but I feel pretty good after adding $25 dollars of parts. I have the C btw, love it.
@4ws0m0
3 ай бұрын
Just wait until these LE agencies find out most of their AR patterned rifles aren't drop safe if they land directly on the muzzle, like Ben's XC.
@williamcarter1381
3 ай бұрын
Nice video man, appreciate the good information and look forward to your follow up video.
@lawrimthong8903
3 ай бұрын
great video, be waiting for the response video, i currently own a c2, your next video will help me decide what I do with it, cheers
@jonathannelson33
Ай бұрын
This affects civilians more than the police. If you had to use it in self defense, the cops will show up. They will demand you drop your gun. If you do so and it goes off, then you may lose your life right after you defended it due to the officer perceiving your shot at them.
@gibsonrocker17
27 күн бұрын
I guess my curiosity might be somewhat ill-informed, but if (in the rare chance this can happen with a drop directly on the muzzle), what's to stop it from potentially happening while advancing a new round into the chamber from the mag? One could assume that the force of the slide closing with the spring tension would be similar to a "drop" and could potentially cause forward motion of the firing pin/striker. My CS has some pretty stiff recoil spring tension, since I've only put 300-400 rounds through it so far. I'm sure over time, the action will break in a bit more with less spring tension. But you're right: this is definitely something that will sit in the back of my mind as a potential failure point of an otherwise perfect handgun. The majority of my collection of handguns (1911's included) are all drop-safe with a firing pin block. I certainly don't anticipate ever dropping my CS muzzle-down, but it does make me think about the force of the slide closing, also. I haven't had any failures with regular shooting, so it's a small concern, but it definitely leads to a bit of curiosity on my part. I certainly will want to expand my Staccato collection in the future with at least a C and potentially a P, so it'd be nice to have some clarity on the "drop" issue as time moves forward and if it is a legitimate concern or not.
@ArmadilloArmament
27 күн бұрын
You bring up a valid point. If a gun isnt drop safe what else is it lacking. I think you should be safe considering how many staccatos are used but I understand your concern.
@LVbibby
3 ай бұрын
Seems like they bit off more than they can chew. Bizarre they don't plan to take action guess the are ok losing some contracts interesting. Seems like the P should be duty rated and they can make whatever mods are needed for that goal. The XC is a comp and range piece hence the trigger and island comp. I think duty guns may need to be drop safe but not all guns do. I have a Shadow 2 and 2011s and don't carry them, but I'm not overly worried about a firing pin block honestly.
@SpyderWebbX
3 ай бұрын
If it fires when dropped barrel down due to inertia, then it technically it could fire by being smacked on the back of the slide. It just needs enough force to move the firing pin with enough force to ignite the primer.
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
Exactly
@gameragodzilla
3 ай бұрын
The back of the slide on the 1911 does have a channel that the firing pin stop rests in to help mitigate that issue, since you’d need to slam the slide hard enough that the firing pin will bounce off the firing pin stop by inertia with enough force to move forward and hit a primer rather than just hitting the firing pin directly. So the issue isn’t quite as bad (otherwise horse cavalry would’ve never adopted the pistol). But the Series 80 style does add that guarantee for drop safety than the Series 70 doesn’t, hence why I built my custom double stack 1911 off a Para Ordnance frame which is Series 80.
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
@@gameragodzilla Thank you for the information and thanks for watching.
@gameragodzilla
3 ай бұрын
@@ArmadilloArmament Kinda wish the new RemArms would bring the old Para Ordnance brand and frame back, given they had superior capacity in .45ACP and were the only double stack 1911 frames anywhere that were Series 80 as far as I know. Rock Island Armory double stacks are based off the Para frame, but they’re still all Series 70.
@petersmith8174
3 ай бұрын
US Marshals pulled from duty because it failed their drop test.
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
Yep, Extremely disappointed. They responded and said they werent going to do anything about it basically. Ill make another video soon.
@champ5316
Ай бұрын
Did they pull their AR-15s off the shelf also, because they are not drop safe.
@champ5316
Ай бұрын
So you're telling us you don't know the difference between a series 70 and a series 80?
@champ5316
Ай бұрын
Did you know AR-15s aren't drop Safe?
@ArmadilloArmament
Ай бұрын
@@champ5316Actual Ipad kid spotted. Listen to my words in the video.
@KennyB26DB
3 ай бұрын
My CS fell the other day. I was afraid but it didn’t go off
@coach-
3 ай бұрын
whoever was firing in the yellow flannel needs to ditch the WML or change their recoil spring as the front of the pistol is dipping too far forward on the recovery.
@boomee78
3 ай бұрын
That's a grip problem
@kayelones
3 ай бұрын
Question if the thumb safety is activated, it shouldn’t be a problem, right
@SpyderWebbX
3 ай бұрын
It doesn't have anything to do with the manual safety. Series 70 1911 style guns don't have a firing pin block safety like most rifles. The firing pin is free floating and can contact the primer. If the gun is dropped, the inertia will drop the firing into the primer even if the hammer is still retracted and locked by the safety.
@aaronbeaulieu6086
3 ай бұрын
This is such a dumb topic. I guess your saying all law enforcement must carry the ever so safe P320. Come on. Just stop with all the BS. This topic is just so overhyped. Glock failed drop tests,Sig P320 failed drop tests. CZ failed drop tests. Basically, almost every gun will fail a drop test if conditions are perfect. Great channel, new subscriber. Always Faithful, Always Forward. Aaron Beaulieu
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
I understand what you are saying but I personally think they should be drop safe. P320's also in my opinion are not drop safe. Glocks and many other striker fired handguns dont seem to have this issue. While I understand alot of guns will fail under perfect conditions, falling on the muzzle from a few feet up is extremely common. Hell, ive done it multiple times. Im not in charge of what qualifies though so its up to them. I will say I have some LEO and Mil friends that are very upset right now and ive heard some organizations dropping Staccato. Staccato's response was also lack luster and I will make a video about it.
@aaronbeaulieu6086
3 ай бұрын
Hey, Alex. Thank you for the reply. I personally own 2 Staccatos, a C2 and the new P heritage 4.15 edition. I have some experience on this. I have several thousand rounds through each gun and never had any major malfunctions. I have dropped both under normal range training and never had any issues. Anyone who has ever done actual hard training with movement will eventually drop the gun, fall and land on the gun and thousands of other scenarios. I agree with you in that duty guns should be drop safe however no design is perfect. There is no substitute for training and proficiency in gun handling. There will always be the 1 in a million scenario that that will cause literally any gun to fail a drop test. Great content and thanks again for the reply. Always Faithful, Always Forward. Aaron Beaulieu
@marvolovesgod385
2 ай бұрын
Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤
@blackops8996
Ай бұрын
Never heard glock fail drop test
@Frostburn777
3 ай бұрын
Why can’t Staccato or any 2011 company just make a manual safety that deactivates the firing pin block instead of using the trigger?
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
Because that would require effort. Or just change springs. They responded and said that would void warranty though. Ill make a new video soon.
@jimbobborg22
3 ай бұрын
Because that would make the trigger pull awful. There's a reason people who shoot for speed and accuracy don't like Series 80 1911s and any gun that has that kind of safety. I think STI and Staccato didn't really think through going the LEO market route with this system of pistols. I have an STI, I love my STI, it's a great competition gun. I wouldn't daily carry it as it's huge and it's not really for anything like law enforcement use. Tony Pignato (that's his real last name) pivoted the company away from competition. They really should have just stuck to that market.
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
@@jimbobborg22 I agree on almost everything but wanted to add that series 80 triggers are usually worse but a good gunsmith or company can make extremely nice series 80 triggers. I’ve used some old series 80 colts that blow staccato triggers out of the water.
@Frostburn777
3 ай бұрын
@@jimbobborg22 No, it wouldn’t. I said make the firing pin block that is deactivated by the manual safety instead of the trigger. If you turn off the manual safety, the firing pin block wiuls be removed and you can pull the trigger without any further interference.
@jubjub905
Ай бұрын
@@Frostburn777I think if its dropped Id assume it was done in a situation where the safety is likely disengaged. But it would be a partial solution
@boomee78
3 ай бұрын
Its pronounced "Stegger" not" Stogger"
@gregshuttleworth4465
2 ай бұрын
If it’s a series 70 it ain’t drop safe simple concepts
@ArmadilloArmament
2 ай бұрын
Other companies have found ways to remedy this issue.
@gregshuttleworth4465
2 ай бұрын
@@ArmadilloArmament yes if one is concerned about it it is possible to set up the gun so it is drop safe. My edc is a 229 but I wouldn’t hesitate to carry a staccato if they didn’t cost so much
@kendallwheeler4050
3 ай бұрын
I have a C2 PDUO , if anyone want to sell their XC dirt cheap let me know LOL
@HaveAblessedDay7777
3 ай бұрын
Even Ben agrees, you either get drop safe or a nice trigger. You can’t have both. It’s an age old debate that gets brought up every year. Quit crying.
@Solving_Live_Poker
3 ай бұрын
LOL. Every single one of these videos is someone not in LE trying to tell everyone what is and isn't a concern for LE. Staccato hasn't made a statement because there's literally nothing to talk about. The odds of dropping the weapon perfectly is next to impossible. Hence why in Ben's video he has to hold it perfectly and drop it perfectly to fire. Take the same weapon and throw it up in the air 500 times and see how many times it falls perfectly to fire. Let those of us in LE who have actually done the job 20+ years make statements on what's likely or not likely to happen while on duty. I challenge anyone to find any news story or police report where a LEO has dropped a 1911/2011 in the field, on duty.....and it fired....ever. And this design has been in use for decades around the country. Just find one example of it happening in real life. I'll wait. (before anyone chimes in, I use a glock on duty and not a 19/2011 fanboy. Just being realistic about this and not some what if fantasy land on KZitem)
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
Were all allowed to have our own opinions. Thanks for watching.
@jg-ub4ek
Ай бұрын
You probably shouldn't be a cop if you get this triggered by a KZitem video lmao
@Bombstark
3 ай бұрын
Good video 👍🏼
@mich3vl_rogers898
Ай бұрын
So where is the statement Stacatto said they were gonna make, I have a Stacatto p which is the duty version and I’m super stressed out.
@ArmadilloArmament
Ай бұрын
Check out my next video after this one. Garand thumb also has a great video on the topic. I wouldnt worry about it too much, it needs to be directly dropped on its muzzle to really happen. I personally wont carry a pistol that isnt drop safe but im not going to lie to you and say you shouldnt.
@marcusjohnson5839
3 ай бұрын
Hey, nice to make the connection between the post on the forum with an actual face. Will be subscribing as I’ve been checking every couple days to see what people have commented on the post. I’ll be honest I was not fully aware of the issue. Seemed to me that the easiest fix would be using stronger springs and/or titanium pin. The extra/extra power spring seems to bring some potential problems with needing a stronger main spring to prevent light primer strikes. I can take it upon myself to get the springs/pins, turned out my spare firing pin springs were the extra strength already. So just need a few extra/extra and a titanium firing pin or two but stock length and see how it runs. One guy I’ve chatted with said that Nighthawk and Atlas while being series 70 do not have this issue since they are hand fit to better tolerances. Sorta makes sense but not sure how that would affect the free floating firing pin. Staccato sorta dug themselves this hole with pushing so heavily into the LE market/“duty rated”. Otherwise the blow back wouldn’t be nearly as bad, considering CZ is still doing ok after that incident with one of their pistol’s, although modified. I’m not on board with the transition into the V3 lineup but could see a potential reason for them to integrate a firing pin block along with the other “improvements” they are doing with V3. ^ Almost seems like the push for LE was a money grab and now they potentially are going to give a half hearted solution to the issue. Oh well discount police trade in’s will allow for some people to get one if they want. Honestly I think the agencies that approve led the XC for duty have bigger potential issues with those firearms in that role than just the drop safe concerns. Squared away officers will keep up on maintenance, others will slack. Slide cuts in a duty role just doesn’t seem like a good idea. Even with a stronger spring most are running 8-9lbs springs, 10-12lbs max. On a P model for plus p ammo red spring is 15lbs, some recommend 16lbs for the recoil spring, while others still prefer lighter springs. For that “duty” role of possibly powering the slide through some junk, heavier spring and no holes in the slide seem like the better option. Hmm sucks to hear about the Alchemy, have seen a post sorta hinting that direction though.
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
Couldn't agree more with everything you said. Staccato also provided me a lack luster response after the video dropped stating they weren't going to do anything. Ill be making a new video soon discussing such. I appreciate all the comments discussing this as I am not an expert in this topic and welcome any outside opinions. In terms of Alchemy, Yeah that's getting sold off haha. Thanks again for stopping by my!
@AngryFPSGamer
3 ай бұрын
I've talked to custom shops such as Nighthawk, I've heard even when dropped with the muzzle down they won't discharge.
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
I’ve heard that due to figment high end 2011’s don’t have as much of an issue. Not sure if that’s true.
@AngryFPSGamer
3 ай бұрын
@@ArmadilloArmament Me either, But I could imagine because since they're hand tuned they could get away with less issues. Sage Dynamics dropped an Atlas Athena with a primal inside of the chamber and it never went off.
@gameragodzilla
3 ай бұрын
I’d imagine the Nighthawk guns use extra strength firing pin springs and lightweight titanium firing pins, which are the usual method to mitigate the problem for Series 70. It doesn’t entirely eliminate it, since you can still slamfire if dropped at a sufficient height, but that combination is sufficient such that you’d need a really high drop for that setup to fire. Also it depends on the material dropped on. Usual standard is apparently on a rubber mat over concrete, which has a little give to simulate dirt, grass, asphalt, etc. where people typically drop guns, and the Staccato passed that apparently, but Ben dropped it on bare concrete which has less give and that can cause a slamfire. Either way, it’s a known thing with every Series 70 1911 so you have to choose between the nicer shooting Series 70 and try to mitigate the drop safety issues or get a Series 80 that has a firing pin block guaranteeing drop safety at the cost of a little mushier trigger.
@AngryFPSGamer
3 ай бұрын
@@gameragodzilla Right, I know some people will disagree with me but I would still rather carry a 1911/2011 over a Striker fire gun. They're just my type of guns and I don't have a problem with either platforms, I love both but 1911's are just my kind of guns. The likely hood of dropping it and discharging is still going to be minimal chance. But at least we can admit it is safer to carry custom 1911's over production 1911's.
@gameragodzilla
3 ай бұрын
@@AngryFPSGamer Same. In fact, safety is one of the reasons I prefer the 1911 over a Glock, since the 1911 has a thumb safety while the Glock only has me not fucking up as the safety, which has never been comfortable for me. And with the grip safety and external hammer, I can also block the hammer with my thumb and push on the back of the slide to reholster, which also engages the grip safety. So in order for the gun to go off during reholstering (usually the most dangerous thing we do with pistols), the thumb safety must be disengaged, the grip safety must be depressed, the trigger must be pulled, and the hammer needs to get past my thumb. That’s 4 things that must happen at once to result in an ND, as opposed to just something snagging the trigger on a Glock or other safety-less striker fired pistol. But the Series 70 is capable of slamfiring, hence why for my 1911 which was meant to be a carry gun, I opted for the Series 80. That maximizes safety, but of course has the issue of a mushier trigger. And that really isn’t a custom vs. production gun thing either. A production gun that’s Series 80, like a Colt or an Sig, will be drop safe whereas even a fully custom Nighthawk that’s Series 70 wouldn’t. Custom just means they add the extra aftermarket parts that mitigate the issue while still having that super nice Series 70 trigger. So everything is a trade off.
@markcromeyer1652
3 ай бұрын
Is this an issue with all staccatos or just the XC
@ArmadilloArmament
3 ай бұрын
All of them.
@markcromeyer1652
3 ай бұрын
@@ArmadilloArmament hopefully staccato will correct this issue
@tizben
4 ай бұрын
Ben really started some shit😂
@marvolovesgod385
2 ай бұрын
Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤✝️
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