The weapon cooldowns in stellaris crack me up everytime I immagine the life of your average crewman.... "We have fired the gun. Good job everyone. See you in two weeks to fire again."
@molybdaen11
Жыл бұрын
You have to make some compromises when having the space battles on your regular map.
@jeremiahschmidt6399
Жыл бұрын
I've always assumed that time is faster in the game than it would be in reality too. Having a civilization go from a single homeworld to inhabiting the entire galaxy in 2-300 years seems ridiculous otherwise. So if that's the case, those crewmen might actually be taking a 2-4 month vacation between artillery shots! Seems like a great benefits package to me.
@furiouskaiser9914
Жыл бұрын
I imagine it as it takes that long to take care of all that heat produced when firing, otherwise you end up melting that weapon and/or the ship carrying it lol.
@kyltredragmire4939
Жыл бұрын
Nah. It just takes 2 weeks of math to calculate each shot.
@КанистраКеросина
Жыл бұрын
@@furiouskaiser9914 +, it is main issue of every imaginable space battle, 90% of combat ship should be heat vents
@darthbane1109
Жыл бұрын
Now that Montu’s video is out, seems like a perfect time for the devs to announce a weapons rebalancing/overhaul.
@ryansmith495
Жыл бұрын
Ha. Every time. They are working on a patch now.
@zacharyhollands
Жыл бұрын
Weapons ranking? Didn't he already do one a while back? Where's the traits ranking we were promised?
@MagnorCriol
Жыл бұрын
@@zacharyhollands presumably on the editing table, since he wasn't done with it yet when they released the rebalancing patch that made him have to redo parts.
@justinsui4201
Жыл бұрын
Literally, every time Montu has a weapons video, a weapons rebalancing patch follows closely after. I think the Devs are glued to this channel 24/7, it is a conspiracy!
@baitposter
Жыл бұрын
@@zacharyhollands On the cutting room floor because those got changed just when it was probably ready, too
@Book_Bird
Жыл бұрын
Confession: I always research energy siphon because it gets annoying showing up on every new tech choice
@ChaoticNeutralMatt
Жыл бұрын
Honestly not a bad idea when you get to that point.
@Uwawa96
Жыл бұрын
@@ChaoticNeutralMatt I usually ignore it till I have only options I wish to skip and its the cheapest option on the list, pretty much allows me to re-shuffle the cards quicker
@spugggaldon361
Жыл бұрын
Energy Siphons should also reduce the targets power making weapons like lasers fire slower, after burners to be less effective and shield / armour hardening to be less effective.
@sacriiwar1026
Жыл бұрын
I use it as a fast tech to research when there is nothing good in the pool of new research 🤣
@MrAbgeBrandt
Жыл бұрын
@@spugggaldon361 or recharge your own while taking the enemy shields
@harlequingnoll5
Жыл бұрын
With a name like "energy SIPHON" I would at least expect every hit to restore at least some small amount of my ship's shields
@ilijajovcevski4419
Жыл бұрын
Or debuff enemy generator output, so his systems suffer random failures.
@emberframe6994
Жыл бұрын
True
@davidholmes3728
Жыл бұрын
Back in the day they targeted the energy supply
@NikolaAvramov
Жыл бұрын
It should really increase the ship's power supply.
@Rith9789
Жыл бұрын
I usually put it on my corvettes at mid to late to annoy the enemy fleets and take down their shields
@alexanderhenderson2594
Жыл бұрын
Man, the old Marvel movies really were a cut above.
@urulai
Жыл бұрын
Late 2000s were a very different time.
@RussMullins
Жыл бұрын
you said a lot there
@ChaoticNeutralMatt
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, yes.
@N0TYALC
Жыл бұрын
I’ve never seen the clip before. Did he just blow up a foreign mountain range just for shits and giggles?
@t2force212
Жыл бұрын
@N0TYALC it's a weapons demonstration, but yes
@spaceglidinmio2388
Жыл бұрын
Disruptor went from F tier to S tier weapon Truly Inspiring
@TruthHunterTeen
Жыл бұрын
I've... always used disrupters, and they've never failed me since the first iteration
@deathstrack
Жыл бұрын
@@TruthHunterTeenwell they used to be so useless when i looked at them recently I was like wtf happened it’s really good now
@tj7094
11 ай бұрын
People always seem to read the avg damage and leave it at that.
@TruthHunterTeen
11 ай бұрын
@@deathstrack Nah. They've always been good, people just don't THINK. It's a weapon designed for swarms. I place it on a Corvette setup that I use for knife fleets as a rapid reaction late game. Those fleets have tore awakened empire fleets apart by themselves in so many games. The only reason they aren't broken is the simple fact of the ship designer being VERY far behind the Moo standard. Honestly I keep hoping they fix ships entirely by going back to said standard but at this point it's unlikely to happen
@TruthHunterTeen
11 ай бұрын
@@tj7094 pretty much.
@Maadhawk
Жыл бұрын
If you get the Rubricator, you get another 15% archeo-weapons damage as well. This bonus is additive to the Archeo-engineers Ascension Perk for a total of +48%.
@jasoncramer6717
Жыл бұрын
I'm gonna make a race of Indiana Joneses that focuses archaeotech. I think it will be sort of maybe viable.
@Maadhawk
Жыл бұрын
@@jasoncramer6717 As long as you have the minor artifact income, it certainly. It also pairs up insanely well if you can get zroni to proc and go the psionic route.
@gibsonhaynes1906
Жыл бұрын
Feels thematically fitting with a Remnants empire, and your relic world means that the Institute of Archaeotech will give you some minor artifact generation.
@Tim_Franklin
Жыл бұрын
The next thing I want to see added for weapons is strike craft diversity. Fighter-type strike craft for engaging other strike craft, Gunship-type strike craft with autocannons and lasers for engaging smaller targets, and torpedo strike craft for engaging capital ships.
@Thenlar
Жыл бұрын
There is a pretty good mod that does that, at least!
@0ptera
Жыл бұрын
Back in the old days we already had scouts, fighters and bombers.
@insanebe1
Жыл бұрын
used to have it, caused lag so was removed.....it ain't coming back
@fickogames9612
Жыл бұрын
Even more micro to stellaris? What could possibly go wrong?
@jyuppiter4540
Жыл бұрын
@@fickogames9612 What micro is there in choosing ship parts? Just look at your enemies fleet and counter whatever they have. There's no micro involved.
@art-games6230
Жыл бұрын
Expectations: disrupters and whirlwind missiles at S or A tier and autocannons/ kinetic artillery above normal kinetics, I also think that torpedoes are above normal missiles Edit: poor gigacannons, fallen from grace and honor😢
@JB-xl2jc
Жыл бұрын
One thing I personally feel that I'd be interested to see Montu's take on is that as range increases, my preference for shield damage over armor/hull damage increases markedly. This means that for the shortest range weapons, I want them only hitting hull and some armor, medium range I want hitting armor with some shields, and max range I want hitting only shields. This is because standard weapons damage shields->armor->hull, which means that things that engage first (maximum range stuff that hits as soon as you engage) should try to take out shields, and the last stuff to get in range should be hitting hull or armor since hopefully shields have been largely stripped by then. What does everyone think?
@kittehhatetube
Жыл бұрын
@@JB-xl2jc I think there's still something to be said for long range armour/hull weapons as there's a LOT of shield bypass stuff in the current macro but yeah, generally I think your takes not a bad one. It's worth remembering that shields feel like the "alpha strike" defence and everything else is there for the brawl after.
@tobiaswiest
Жыл бұрын
@@JB-xl2jc This has been my take on it too and works really well. Shields regenerate the fastest and can be the hardest nut to crack if you ignore them. Artillery should favor shields while close up ships or closer range weaponry should be focused on the final blow. This all goes out the window however when most of your ships are equipped with missiles and torpedo's.
@JohnDoe-pq1te
Жыл бұрын
I'd actually love to see how gigacannon/ancient driller drone battleships fare against any other fleet.
@art-games6230
Жыл бұрын
@@JohnDoe-pq1te they die
@Minimeister317
Жыл бұрын
As a newbie to this game, this video is so incredibly helpful as there are *so* many weapons in this game.
@Kommerzman
Жыл бұрын
From someone that has been playing since launch: try finding your own style first. The reason why Stellaris is so great is its replayability and a big reason for that is the different stories you can write by playing. So don't min-max every game and have fun :)
@massey81
Жыл бұрын
trust me, we have to re-learn the game every few months ourselves lol
@Minimeister317
Жыл бұрын
@@Kommerzman Thanks, I try. At the moment playing as Hivemind Terravore Lithoids on endless consumption.
@boringnoninterestingname65
Жыл бұрын
@@Minimeister317 yeah I’d just do corvette spam lol Hive minds can tank losses pretty easily especially a lithoid Terravore you’ll be able to replace easily,
@Rith9789
Жыл бұрын
@@Minimeister317Devouring swarm is fun, scary sometimes, especially if you find yourself next to people who don't take kindly with a ravenous hive near them.
@timothypeterson4781
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I got the Zhroni relic, put a bunch of hangars with the drillers on a choke point and just went "come, break against my shores."
@reidsb78
Жыл бұрын
I'd love to see a discussion on fleet composition, weapon loadouts per class of ship, etc... I have always tended to let the auto-building design stuff but I'm trying to optimize a bit more going forward.
@erutherford
Жыл бұрын
I'd really recommend hand optimizations. Even if you pick a fairly "meh" design type I think you'll see more fleet-wide synergies than you would by letting auto-design having a crack. YMMV
@MazeMouse
Жыл бұрын
Ever since launch I've always setup my corvettes with "1 kinetic 2 energy". Chew the shield and then rip it apart with energy. So 1AC 2Plasma is my default on corvettes and that seems to work like a charm. AC quickly removes the shields. Plasma melts the armor. And all three wreck the hull.
@XShrike0
Жыл бұрын
The auto builder seemed to love the Energy Siphon.
@molotovfirebomb9881
Жыл бұрын
I think there is a really important caveat to the weapon tier list and that is fleet composition. As you have said, some weapons are better than others, but effectively countering and supporting weapons can have a significant role in how effective you are in fighting. What comes to my mind is those drone strike craft. They lack the shield penetration, but supporting them with ships that can effectively strip shield may negate that lack of shield penetration. Thus the null void beam may be terrible on its own, having a handful of them might be more handy than you give them credit. edit: the sooner those shields are gone, the sooner your drones can tear through an enemy ship
@melegorth3342
Жыл бұрын
I've need a video like this! I've never really understood how ship builds worked, great info!
@CalamitasCalliope
Жыл бұрын
I'm surprised you didn't mention the very good synergy between cloaking and torpedoes. Fill out a frigate fleet with decent cloaking, and you can place them right on top of highly fortified starbases before telling them to fire. While the ai tends to go heavy on cloaking detection, you can usually find a path through or just outpace their detection entirely. Human players are even more susceptible to this since the majority of players don't invest in good detection arrays. And even with all of that out of the way there is still the fact that all space fauna, end game crisis factions, and the Grey Tempest don't use any cloaking detection. You can get a cheap shot on the Unbidden portal, the nanite production hub, Contingency Worlds, and every single Leviathan. It's such a useful tactic for eliminating one big defensive stronghold so your battleships can move through without getting so much as their paint chipped.
@justinsinke2088
Жыл бұрын
A shame that frigates seem to be otherwise useless unless they're cloaked for a surprise attack. I tried to use and like Frigates when they were introduced, but it seemed every naval engagement the only losses my fleet would suffer would be all of my frigates.
@CalamitasCalliope
Жыл бұрын
@@justinsinke2088 yeah torpedoes work better on cruisers when not using cloak. Unfortunately
@cassky3736
Жыл бұрын
Montu's weapon tier list : long, detailed video Strat's weapon tier list : short, fun video both are great vids tho.
@nyarlat2609
Жыл бұрын
montus voice doesnt bludgeon my ears tho, ill take his stuff any day
@penguinpenguinpenguin
Жыл бұрын
Strat is annoying af and heavily biased towards multiplayer
@johnny5247
Жыл бұрын
Love the improvement to visual clarity in the last couple videos!
@gbadspcps2
Жыл бұрын
One thing I think worth mentioning is how good strike craft repeatables are. Late game I often find myself having already gotten everything else I need from society tech tree, while I still need stuff in physics/engineering. So it lets me scale them up while researching other tech.
@Harbinger_of_Doom146
Жыл бұрын
Something that really is evident looking through other comments is that everyone uses a combination of weapons which makes total sense. I was a bit confused that Montu treated all the weapons like they were only used by themselves
@jeoff511
Жыл бұрын
would love a video going over the best fleet compositions i.e. how many of each ship type, for both early mid and late game, plus what designs you recommend for those points in the game. basically just tell me how to do my fleets cus i cant be bothered.
@Routerproblem
Жыл бұрын
If they would add an upgraded version of the Energy Siphon and Ming Laser which are better than the "normal" weapons it would make them much more interresting and worth while to research
@astrolonim2032
Ай бұрын
Love your tier lists! Just spent a 9-hour drive from Californian Canberra to Californian Sydney watching all these, opened up my PC, equipped my fleet with missiles and torpedos, and dropped the hammer on the Spiritual FE next door. All credit goes to your sage advice :)
@nathanhunt9526
Жыл бұрын
Current favorite combo is fast carrier cruisers with driller drones, whirlwind and missiles. Escorted by corvettes with autocannons to strip shields for the drillers. Also like pure carrier battleships with drillers and missiles/whirlwind alongside kinetic artillery battleships.
@esbeon99
Жыл бұрын
really curious on the logic of Scourge Missiles being worse than regular torpedos when Scourges have triple the range and almost triple the base damage
@roblaquiere8220
Жыл бұрын
I feel like the reason is its such a late tech, and you need to destroy a Scourge fleet to acquire them. By the time you can defeat Scourge fleets you've already won the game pretty much.
@PaiSAMSEN
Жыл бұрын
I feel like it should be considered as a missile with torpedo characteristic than actual torpedo. It has the range of 90, slightly shorter than missile, but far exceeding those of torpedo. It also lack firing arc and fire quickly like normal missile while flying at the same speed. As such, I consider it as giving torpedo advantage to missile build rather than to be use as part of conventional torpedo build, staying at range and lobbing missile until they all die instead of charging in and launch its torpedo at point blank range.
@jaredjordan9863
Жыл бұрын
For cordyceptic drones, I definitely feel that scourge missiles are S tier.
@OreoGetDown
6 ай бұрын
Even though it's really sub-par, I can't help but love the Mega cannons; they feel so much like MAC guns to me. I always throw in a few on my defense stations and alpha strike battleship fleets. Just love seeing the shields on an enemy ship go from full to zeroed out in a single blast. Good list btw, thanks for helping a guy who skipped a few patches
@fbwhitey
Жыл бұрын
I feel like bypass weapons are probably a little OP, and should have reduced damage versus the defence layer they bypass. Right now it seems hardening isn't even really a hard counter. Its hard to reach high hardening % in the first place, and using up very valuable slots in the process. If you can force bypass weapons to do reduced damage vs the type they are no longer bypassing, it should make hardening a much more worthwhile investment, and hopefully balance these weapons a bit better than a '100% must use' on every fleet
@MrWeeseAChine
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I feel like shield/armor hardening needs a little buff. I just simply don’t bother with them when they should be a good counter to bypass weapons.
@solatyn
Жыл бұрын
stack admirals on your council and get the destiny trait that provides hardening. laugh at people shooting bypass weapons at you
@fbwhitey
Жыл бұрын
@@MrWeeseAChine Yeah. Seems the best way to counter bypass weapons is just to use bypass weapons yourself and build a bigger fleet which takes a lot of the fun out of weapon variety
@erutherford
Жыл бұрын
@@fbwhitey If it matters I run a "bad" [outdated?] design with tons of shield [or shield+armor] bypass but oddly have lots of Shields with 75%+ hardening. Seems to work well against the AI that never counters the design. The changes to shield recharge though are a kick in the pants. Might try a more armor centric approach and see how well that works.
@Elvanil
Жыл бұрын
I feel as though the way repeatables are spread out would adjust all Strike Craft, Energy, and Explosive weapons up, and Kinetics down late game. Engineering is crowded, spread between the Armor, Explosive, and Kinetics repeatables - so focusing on armor and explosive is best to limit competing for repeatables. Society has Strike Craft only, and therefore has no competition for repeating, and Physics is spread between Energy and Shields - so less competition, particularly if you do not use shields.
@נדבאהרון-ז3ח
Жыл бұрын
its actually possible to get swarm strikers fairly early if one of your enemies had the "daughter of stars" event, if you kill and research the daughter of stars you get preythorian weapons, and considering its fleet power is only 1.4k, its very doable within the first 20 years of the game
@cosmosyn2514
Жыл бұрын
also the locust swarm should have the swarm strikers too
@Chadiman59
Жыл бұрын
That's from a mod tho, isn't it?
@cosmosyn2514
Жыл бұрын
@@Chadiman59 im like 98% sure locust swarm is a vanilla system
@Chadiman59
Жыл бұрын
@@cosmosyn2514 I meant the daughter of stars event
@ctashadow3055
Жыл бұрын
I'm a new player to Stellaris so I've been waiting to find an updated weapon list xD ..... Thank you, great video!
@seryphgaming
Жыл бұрын
this is fantastic to know, all the guides ive seen for what weapons are actually good are all around a year old or more, being outdated. Thank you so much for taking the time to actually look at every weapon, test them, and actually telling us what they are good for rather than just "UsE tHiS bEcAuSe GoOd"
@nahnanananananana2914
Жыл бұрын
Ancient driller drones on hanger defense platforms in a pulsar system of mine wiped out over 5 times the starbase fleet power, not even an optimized starbase build.
@DeltaPi314
Жыл бұрын
These weapon stat updates really seem to encourage building two fleets per task force: - A screen fleet with corvettes and some close combat Destroyers set to take point and engage enemy first. - A heavy support (artillery) fleet that supports the screen fleet when engaging the enemy, Could you test this theory Montu?
@ruukinen
Жыл бұрын
Until they give you some kind of combined arms bonus it's always going to be optimal to go for just one type of ship with a loadout that targets one specific opponent. Any mixed fleet is always going to lose to it's hard counter and be worse against it's preferable target than the full hard counter to that.
@AV-yj5yl
Жыл бұрын
I've found that the setup that works best for me is to have multiple types of same-class ships, covering most weapons. This way every fleet is able to hold their own against any enemy layout, even if it is not optimal.
@SolazLive
Жыл бұрын
This list is missing Skravird Strike Craft that you get from Skrand Sharpbeak
@atlas7783
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the list i dont have a ton of hours in the game so this really helps keep me on an even footing playing with my buddy whos been playing alot longer
@thorak1952
Жыл бұрын
I'd really love some new videos about how to build the different classes of ships with the new balancing. Different fleet compositions for different stages of the game.
@BSasafrasK
Жыл бұрын
just read through the comments here, I've already gotten a few ideas for my next game.
@jeffreyestahl
Жыл бұрын
My preferred fleet mix usually creates 2 of each class level of ship: a shield killer, and an armor killer. I've found this works very well, though it can be a bit expensive at times.
@Makem12
Жыл бұрын
Can I pretty please have a chart or list version of this tier list including pros and cons of each? You're the best Montu, even if you can't help me out with my request.
@IchHassePasswoerter
Жыл бұрын
I usually go for a combined weapons approach. I put a bit of kinetic on there to bust though shields and then deck the ships out in lasers. Destroyers are basically relegated to PD only.
@owenmcgee891
Жыл бұрын
Mining lasers are better than indicated if you're holding off on blue lasers in order to steer the tech tree, which I do routinely while focusing on missiles & torpedoes. They're excellent critter killers & make your starbases a bit better, since the bases themselves use a mix of energy & kinetic weaponry.
@LoicJ29
Жыл бұрын
Would love to see a video about the best ship designs/fleet designs, I still don't know if I should keep some corvettes, frigates and destroyers in the mid/late game or only focus on cruisers and battleships! Anyway great video Mr Montu!
@pieterfaes6263
Жыл бұрын
Montu, another consideration for viability that could be made is the tech cost of researching said weapons. If a competitive fleet could be made with monoweapon-ships, that could tech-cheaper to achieve than one that needs a balance of weapons which all have to be researched and take longer to upgrade fully tech-wise. Also, if the tech-cost of weapons on one fleet is lower than that of another, that would also give someone an advantage. Because, given how tech tiers work, this would allow valuable tech to be spent elsewhere, like economy, tech acceleration or synths if you're going with that. Or rushing megastructures.
@leobastian_
Жыл бұрын
One thing to be said about the new meta is that with both energy weapons and armor being so much better weapons, it really allows you to specialise your repeat techs. I get a low amount of shield techs, and then just complete focus on energy weapon repeats in physics. and in engineering i spend 95% of my effort solely on the armor repeat tech.
@molybdaen11
Жыл бұрын
Keep in Mind that the ancient killer drones do not engage other fighters. So against the grey tempest and certain space bugs, you might want to swap to regular fighters or build in more flak.
@thedismayer1196
Жыл бұрын
I didn’t know that. What is a good counter to FE and Swarm? I used to clown them by year fifty when they had tons of ships but now when they have like six ships they kill two groups of carrier battle ships.
@molybdaen11
Жыл бұрын
@@thedismayer1196 For me it worked to design 30-50 flak destroyers to fly ahead and distract the fighters until your own fighter are there. The main ships are weak. You may even get away with a lot of flak corvettes.
@freedomsflame688
Жыл бұрын
I've been having a blast running fleets of stealth frigates and corvettes and ambushing enemy fleets. Decloak right on top of them so they don't get a chance to use their artillery, knock out their large ships with the frigates, and have the corvettes mop up other corvettes/destroyers. The only downsides are that the low evasion of the frigates means I have to replace a lot of them after every battle and cloaking requires going full armour, but I'm still coming out way ahead alloy-wise.
@rake483
Жыл бұрын
Disruptors are S tier??? When i used them, they made most of the enemy ships disengage, which caused wars to last forever. (You need to destroy ships to increase war exhaustion of your enemy.) It is no fun to be entangled in drawn-out wars all the time.
@voidjockey82
7 ай бұрын
I want to get better at the game so I'm will state what I think would be a good idea and then learn if it is or not and if not thw reason why. If you put a single auto-canon on a ship and have the other weapons be effective against armour, then the auto-canon with its quick fire-rate will destroy the shield first, leaving the armour now bare for the other weapons to crack through very quickly. Therefore, having a single auto-canon on a ship with mostly armour-destroying weapon is a good idea.
@PerfectAlibi1
Ай бұрын
I love using Energy Siphon and Null Void Beam. Good to take out shields for my lasers and plasma weapons. And since they're all energy weapons, I never have to bother boosting kinetic, strike craft and missile repeatables.
@legolegs87
Жыл бұрын
I am quite surprised (and disappointed) that in combat ships do not focus fire different weapons on the most vulnerable enemy. Ex. 20 energy siphons drain shields on enemy ship #1 until it has none left, then all the siphons switch to enemy #2, while lasers shoot ship #1's armor and hull.
@zulu0489
Жыл бұрын
How does targeting work then?
@zlorfik2428
Жыл бұрын
Problem with swarm missiles is that they are considered one missile with lots of health. What would make waaay more sense is if the component actually launched several missiles that individually can be shot down. Because right now you need on average 3+ PD to 1 swarm missile module to remove ALL damage from the swarm missile. If it simply launched e.g. 4 missiles, out of which 2 are shot down and deals thus 50% of its maximum damage, then it makes sense. You can still saturate PD, but you dont straight out bypass all PD.
@killer30556
Жыл бұрын
I used 1 null void on my destroyer at the start of the game. It seemed like they were verry effective in small quantities to rip through their shields quickly. PVE btw.
@masterblaster3508
Жыл бұрын
The way I view Ancient weapons is you either put them in your heavy hitter high risk reward admirals that focus on damage output. Or you put them in a fleet that is all about retreating to fight another day
@therealspeedwagon1451
Жыл бұрын
I’ve always been someone who uses extremely meta weapons. I may roleplay with some awful civics like warrior culture but I will never shy away from using meta weapons. However I’ve always been afraid of using disruptors as they’re so hard to wrap my head around and I still have that stigma around them from previous versions.
@erutherford
Жыл бұрын
If it matters I've often liked going disruptors the gotcha being that you need to research some techs before you can snag the disruptors so you can't start with this design ... The only issue is that you may have a disproportionately high number of ships retreating so you may need to try to counter that somehow ...
@rowanwalter6306
Жыл бұрын
Same
@therealspeedwagon1451
Жыл бұрын
@@rowanwalter6306 I am however more than willing to use swarmer missiles and actually love using them.
@williamkrimson1312
Жыл бұрын
I actually like warrior culture and think its very under rated. I agree there are probably better options but by no means is it awful. I like that Duelists take alloy allowing me to limit my consumer goods production in favor of alloy production. I also like building mercenary enclaves for an quick emergency fleet and increased naval capacity
@trolley7657
Жыл бұрын
26:13 "Battleships now are slow, cumbersome beasts that are not as good as they once were." Damn Montu, I thought this was a stellaris video not an irl history lesson
@foxfax2
Жыл бұрын
Archaeo-weapons are what I exclusively arm my Oveseer Hive ships with for my Hive Mind empires if I go for Archaeotech, while my non-Overseer ships languish with "just" normal weapons. Keeps the cost down across the empire.
@Cthululululu
Жыл бұрын
Kiting being less viable in general seems to heavily encourage actually having screening ships
@justinsinke2088
Жыл бұрын
My general fleet designs have been torpedo cruisers with disruptors, missile destroyers in long range fire support, and some form of artillery battleships. After this, I might work my battleships into aircraft carriers so that I have a torpedo spearhead with missile and strike craft support and see how that works. Still need to work out the best setup for defense platforms, though it sort of seems like making noting but swarm missile platforms might just work for simplicity. However, I feel again you have something of a double standard with how you're rating weapons. Like when talking about the Ancient Driller Drones you make mention of "if you can strip enemies of their shield", yet rank most of the anti-shield weaponry very low and largely recommend against using, and pretty much talk disparately about the anti-shield properties of those weapons that got higher up in the list like it's some asterisk you felt obliged to comment on.
@mushyroom9569
Жыл бұрын
I think the armor/shield rebalance was supposed to make kinetic weapons useful for hit-and-run tactics, but bypass weapons are better for that and in the case where hardening becomes a factor you’re better off abandoning hit-and-run altogether.
@littlezockerBoy
Жыл бұрын
I hope there will be some more ship builds coming after this tier list
@Elhazzared84
Жыл бұрын
While I find some things are correct about this tier list, there is a problem I see with it and that is the basis you are using for the analysis is practically a vacuum which when translated into a game doesn't really applies. When people look at a tier list they do so in order to look at what are the best weapons and then make a fleet based on what is better. For that you can't analyse things in a vacuum, you need to take other things into consideration. Now you do take armour vs shield into consideration so it's not completly in a vacuum, you also take into consideration looking at what the opponent fleet is. While the first is good, the second isn't and here's why. Generally the AI just uses presets for their fleet compositions, variations tend to be more dependent on what tech they've unlocked thus far than actual preferences set for each empire. What this means is that yes, there will be a variation in tech between enemy empires and of course the crysis and fallen empires, generally speaking the threat of a random empire isn't big and everything can be overcome with having much larger fleets and striking the moment they appear. For that reason it's completly irrelevant to change your fleet to hit better on armor or shields or hull depending on the empire you are fighting, it actually only makes it a pain in the ass and a waste of alloys to be constantly refiting and against things like crysis, it is better to strike the moment they appear. Deal with them before they can gain any momentum which makes refiting to fight them a poor choice. With that out of the way what we need to base weapon analysis is fleet composition and repeatable tech. Let's stater with repeatable tech. Repeatable tech makes even a bad weapon the best weapon to use. Onc you have something like +50% to damage and attack speed, a base version with no bonus does not compete with it anymore. Of course we don't want to do that with the worst weapons, we want to do it with the best, however there are caviats. There is no point in investing into both kinetic weapons, energy weapons, missiles and strike craft. You want to focus your research so you only buff the weapons you use. Second is fleet composition and here you have 2 ways of going, the old way which is only battleships (with a titan per fleet for aura) or mixed fleets. In my opinion the old way is still the better way because anything smaller than a battleship at the end game gets destroyed too easily. In a mixed fleet you are expecting each ship type to have a role and the combined roles is what makes the fleet effective, however battles are not one fight and you're done. You have to fight multiple fights and usually hold the systems for a while so the ground attack forces can capture the planets and that can lead to additional fights. If you lost a lot of weaker ships, your ship composition is now out of balance and your fighting effectiveness has decreased significantly. But if your fleet is all battleships all with the same configuration, lose 3 or 4 battleships and all you lost is some firepower, you are still largely effective. Don't forget that battleships are several times more survival than anything else so you lose a lot less power too just for having them instead of a mixed fleet. So with this in mind, let's look again at the tier list and reconsider for a moment. What is the most effective weapon on a battleship? Strike craft are the answer. As a big slow moving ship, your major issue are the ships that move fast and deal lots of damage up close, but your strike craft destroys up to destroyer class ships very quickly and effectively. These should be in S tier, not A. Also consider that strike craft intercept other strike craft and so flak artillery is actually not that good on your ships. What you'd want is point defense which is speciaised for missiles since strike craft no longer intercept them. Suddenly that point defense is now solidly into A tier. S tier if we consider that is 1 of the 2 only existing point defenses and the best in slot. With this in mind, how do we follow up on weapons? Well if we have strike craft, we will have some S and M slots as well and what fits the role best here? Missiles. They have the best range, do good damage and like the strike craft, they bypass shields so this is where we invest next. I do agree with your tiering on the missiles, they are well placed though it's debatable whether tier 5 missiles should be A or S since are small slot, they are not really competing with whirlwind missiles per say. You also classify every titan weapon very low even though you ideally have 1 titan per fleet and therefore will always have a titan weapon. I'd probably rate them higher since there is only 2 and I'd rate the basic one higher. In most engagements, even longer duration ones you generally only fire it once, maybe twice on the archeotech if it's a very long battle so having the higher damage is generally better and it doesn't uses minor relics. As for the point on whether you will have them in a role or another. I'd consider that a moot point. There is no point in using a titan if not for the aura but that doesn't means we shoul leave it weaponless. That said I would like stellaris to actually give use slot options for titans rather than just all large and titan weapon. At this point we could debate whether battleships should have a large weapon on the back or medium, we could debate whether they should X weapon on the front or not and debating this would lead us to whether we invest into energy weapon, kinetic weapons or neither. I prefer neither to better focus my research and on that note. Yes, armour is better by default, but looking at my set up, I have engineering repeatables for missiles, society for strike craft and nothing on the physics. This means that I could invest into energy weapons as a thrid, or I could just go shields instead of armour, by doing so my shields will be strong regardless and I don't have to divide my engineering research into missiles and armor thus I am far more effectively gaining power. The poor titan is the one that comes worst for wear since I won't be buffing it asside from the shields but he's there for the aura anyway. Now while I did explain my setup, it's important to think how a game realistically sets up how fleets are composed, how repeatables should be focused instead of spread around. These things make tiering quite different than what you made for some of the weapons.
@francis563
10 ай бұрын
This is excellent
@Para0234
11 ай бұрын
When you add Rubricator + Archaeo-Engineers, all the archaeo-tech weapons go up one rank. Except the ancient macro batteries.
@ozymandias5257
8 ай бұрын
Versions 3.10 two games have shown in early game I can face AI fleets valued 1/3 more than mine with 1/6th the losses. In both cases the AI used missiles & kinetic: they were ready for shields. I used 2 corvette designs: both with all armor (no shields); 3/4ths of my fleet had kinetic flack + 1energy & 1 kinetic gun. The remaining 1/4 had 2 energy guns & 1 kinetic. I delt six times the damage, shot down nearly all their damage even with my 34 corvettes facing their 50! I lost 6 ships compared to 25, muahaha. OMG, if I could have met them in a nebula...
@kilvesx7924
Жыл бұрын
Anything that is a missile automatically sucks a bit because missiles are slow. Your enemy will bombard you with kinetics and lasers far before they even hit. Strike craft are also ass because they take so much weapon space and are slow. So I'd drop all the missile and strike craft stuff a couple tiers. Shields are also pretty much useless because armor has literally 2x hitpoints, so you only really want anti-shield stuff in singleplayer, and even then just to kill fallen empires.
@Kommerzman
Жыл бұрын
I still love the neutron torpedoes on cruisers. The always do a whooping amount of damage for me
@seadd-talan3751
Жыл бұрын
Every time I look at Stellaris stuff about weapons, people are always talking about tailoring their ships to a specific enemy. While I can see how this can be useful, 1 I am too lazy to constantly be changing my ship configurations, and 2 I like my ships to be versatile, and not be sitting ducks if something unexpected happens. I usually balance my ships by having equal number of shield stripping weapons and armor damage weapons, but perhaps my strategy will have to change when this update comes to Xbox.
@HolysMoly
Жыл бұрын
Archeotech ascension perk alongside ancient nano swarm missles & driller drones is ridiculously broken, really easy to win the game if you go crisis as soon as you can put even ONE of those on menacing corvettes
@TheMantisLord50
11 ай бұрын
I used to only use lasers mass drivers and missiles, and was totally dismissive of torpedoes. I just recently used the devastator torpedoes recently and oh my god I can never go back.
@Notlordstark
Жыл бұрын
I wish there was a way to prioritize certain types of targets for individual ship designs. Force a titan with a perdition beam to focus on battleships for example. That way you don’t have that problem of “over-killing” a corvette with a perdition beam.
@ruukinen
Жыл бұрын
I believe they already do that. For example weapons that do more damage against shields will prefer targeting ships that still have shields left. I don't know the exact logic and or if there is some randomness involved but it should be like that, unless they've changed from that obviously superior system to random targeting.
@RobBCactive
Жыл бұрын
The state of energy siphon & null void beams is sad, the null void range used to make it useful combined with energy weapons in a larger slot. I liked them for exposing armour & hull in artillery destroyers as a specialist ship force multiplier, which would tend to draw fire from larger ships. But it is a very very long time since I used them. The siphons have always been too limited, I don't get why the devs nerf flavour techs into uselessness.
@miroz0181
Жыл бұрын
Omnissiah preserve me ! I've been playing completely wrong. Montu, you are legendary !!!.......for a xeno 😋😋
@ruansteenkamp4289
Жыл бұрын
Would have been nice if the Weapons tier list actually meant something, I went and based my ship designs on it and for some reason I had enemy fleets of 50K chasing or straight up beating my roughly 125K - + fleets
@sytela6346
Жыл бұрын
I was JUST goin through my weapons trying to figure out which one’s best.
@Threeve703
Жыл бұрын
Montu: here is my weapon tier list Me: *Sweating about whether or not I pick F-tier weapons*
@sascher7461
Жыл бұрын
Some sort of emp weapon, that reduces the total amount of energy on enemy ships, would be interesting. So some of thier weapons cant fire, they lose some shields and evasion. Maybe even the ability for each ship to retreat.
@noneuklid
Жыл бұрын
You keep mentioning the reason null beams are an auto-include for me on certain ship designs if I get them. Because armor HP is so important, my builds focus on strike craft, explosives and energy weapons. But I need a certain portion of my fleet to be able to strip off shields in case I face a shield-meta enemy. Null beams are incredibly versatile anti-shield weapons that have artillery-like maximum ranges, excellent accuracy, T4 damage specifically against shields, no artifact or nanite cost, and no minimum range. As a result I can basically cut in half the number of slots I'm using for anti-shield weaponry and cut out kinetics almost entirely. When I'm at endgame research, this also means that I don't have to put more than a token few cycles into the Kinetics repeatables.
@noneuklid
Жыл бұрын
also, autocannons are basically fighter point defense, since fighters generally have no or negligible armor
@luka188
Жыл бұрын
@@noneuklid Only P weapons can target Strike craft.
@normal6969
Жыл бұрын
Playing a race starting on a relic world and with a minor artifact mine. I constantly find other artifact mines while I survey in the beginning. All acrotech weapons are fine with their upkeep. Of course I went into the Archotech ascension. Plus putting these on menacing ships waive all non-power/mineral upkeeps.
@Zathurious
Жыл бұрын
I was surprised with the results. Thank you for suffering through hours of testing just so I could learn exactly which class of weapons to use.
@levilewis6622
Жыл бұрын
I actually main missiles and fighters, with a handful of energy weapons thrown in. No shields, just covered in armor.
@drizzle7876
Жыл бұрын
Me seeing that my favorite weapon (Ancient Nano-Missile Cloud Launchers) are S tier: Now this is a meta I can get behind.
@unsocialchain
Жыл бұрын
As one of the 100 Stellaris console players in existence looking at this list and knowing what is coming in 2 years time is truly scary
@TheCoyote808
Жыл бұрын
I miss the days of only starting with one weapon tech researched, different types of startimg ftl, and the RP it added. Like, hey I'm a Human with Wormhole tech, ripping holes in space time to get places, but my main weapon of choice? Freaking nuke warheads on missiles. Oh, and never researching shields to save on power requirements. lol
@pallen2645
6 ай бұрын
Apart from a basic "use bypass weapons with other bypass weapons" I feel like this video doesn't account well for weapon types that combine well. Case in point, chain guns: if you pair them with weapons that bypass shields but DON'T bypass armor (missiles, torpedoes, strike craft) then by the time your brawlers close to melee the enemy armor will already be stripped, letting the chain guns quickly remove the shields and then chew up the hull for more rapid extermination compared to pairing missiles or strike craft with disruptors because of the massive disparity in base damage.
@ZophyrREAL
Жыл бұрын
perdition beam is the goat if you have mods that force the ai to construct the biggest ships available
@enriquelareo9467
10 ай бұрын
The problem of classifying weapons one by one... is that most need to be used in tandems to be ranked. Like shield killers+plasma combo..
@leoxgamer1342
Жыл бұрын
i usually stop using lasers when i get plasma i use a combo of plasma, kinetic batteries, ion disrupters and swarm missiles
@dylan-zx3hh
6 ай бұрын
Imagine working for 20 DAYS to reload one torpedo. 🤯 Makes me think of void ship cannons from 40k
@Wr0y
Жыл бұрын
Dont quite understand the F teir for null void; it deals 400 damage roughly, specifically to shields yes, but a load of these, 1 per ship equipped with the remainder being laser tech can clean up shields before you get into standard combat distance. Its still more average damage than an a gamma laser and a gaus cannon that caps at 200 or so, with greater range and a better damage percentage. That said, its hard to actually test it cus its rare, I've only had it drop once in all my playthroughs.
@Tarkenfire
Жыл бұрын
TBH, unless there was some major Titan changes in the new patch, which I admit I didn't read super detailed, perdition beam is still better than ruination glare regardless of damage stats because of the range difference. Titans are too expensive and take too long to rebuild if you lose them in the late game, and just building more battleships can make up the DPS gap; you still want the auras from the titans, but you want them as far away from the front of the battle as possible, even further back than carriers if possible. Perdition beams could fire once a year for all you should care and do -100% against armor, so long as they keep that 200+ range.
@michaelscotts3949
Жыл бұрын
The artifacts makes me think of Starships Unlimited 3. Always wanted to play a modded version of that back then. Still would.
@peterhacke6317
Жыл бұрын
Overlooking one important function of the pertition beam: it's range makes your aura ship stay the f out of the fight and alive.
@MontuPlays
Жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure I mentioned that, but not until discussing the second titan weapon (the archaeo one)
@yousaidthusly461
Жыл бұрын
Do you think they bungled the values of Ancient Macro-Batteries, or did they pre-nerf them because Fallen empires and other neutral entities with macro batteries would be overpowered?
@thewanderers97
Жыл бұрын
Fallen empires do not use archaeotech
@snaipd2582
Жыл бұрын
The gigachad move of going crisis path in MP, and not investing in encryption. So the entire lobby sees you stack nano-missle cloud launchers in horror!
@Rith9789
Жыл бұрын
I want that Null Void beam for my Swarm of Corvettes. Just run in there and wear down all the shieds so my psionic weapons murder their armor.
@archades115
Жыл бұрын
I always knew disruptors would get the validation they deserve. I still love using them alongside cloud lightning and arc emitters.
@edwinwang5594
Жыл бұрын
Aww... I have always been a believer in shooting big chunks of metal into the enemy ship across the system. Seems like kinetic weapons are almost obsolete...
@sylvie_v2939
Жыл бұрын
Thinking back to this, I think some of these should be caveated if you may want to research a certain tier (e.g., Tier III or Tier IV lasers or Tier IV Kinetics, Tier II missiles) to roll disruptors, particle lances, torpedoes and M missiles respectively), Additionally Neutron Torps will be put on Starbases with the G slot, which for an immobile thing, range is it's best defense. Might be a good filler tech if you still haven't rolled the other ones for defense platforms or whatever.
@fuzzyfuzzyfungus
5 ай бұрын
Do weapons intelligently choose the targets that best suit their strengths, or do they ignore that in favor of some other factor(just sticking with whatever they started with or whatever is at optimal range?) That seems like it would massively change the calculus for things like the void beam that have massive skews in effectiveness. If a void beam just keeps hammering at whatever it locked onto first it's going to spend most of its life being really useless against armor and hull. If, though, it opportunistically preferred shielded targets, whenever available, it could be a pretty mean support weapon: a substantial portion of the fleet would have to be something else, for actual killing; but it could remove a lot of shield points per weapon slot.
@dabluflcn
Жыл бұрын
I like a mixed neutron launcher cruiser and kinetic artillery battleship/titan fleet. Line computer on the cruisers to get them out front, artillery computer on the battleships, they tend to line up nasty alpha strikes. Mind I only use one or two fleets like this to supplement my main stacks of torpedo/disruptor cruisers and arc emitter/carrier battleship stacks by the late game.
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