You are correct sir. Your ground is only meant to carry momentary fault current to clear the fault. When you create a parallel path, then current is flowing on both the neutral and the ground, which is dangerous and can cause serious injury or even death. Anyone working on electrical systems should be properly trained to prevent injury, damage to equipment or property, or even death. It's not a hobby. Please only use properly trained electricians. To me that looks like a job your buddy SoAlz the Tool might have done! 🤣😂
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Lol
@toolsandtactics
11 ай бұрын
💯
@LLAMA-LLAMA
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve tried explaining parallel paths to a couple people and it was like a deer in headlights🤣
@toolsandtactics
2 жыл бұрын
H a ha
@micahw6304
Жыл бұрын
If its a line side tap you have to bond your grounds and neutrals. Its the first means of disconnect. If its breaker back feed then you shouldn't have a fusible disconnect.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah they say because it's a line tap that that disconnect is the first means.. but the grounds and neutrals are already established so we should isolate? what benefit do we have by bonding?
@micahw6304
Жыл бұрын
@toolsandtactics the bonds in the panel don't apply to anything after the taps. You are creating a 2nd main basically, from meter to 200A main all those grounds and neutrals are bonded. Now you've done meter to taps, taps to disconnect and fuses, now all these neutrals and grounds have to be bonded. With a breaker back feed you're tying into that 200A main and those bonded neutrals and grounds apply to that breaker. That breaker controls the solar system and in beneath a main that has all its neutrals and grounds bonded.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
@micahw6304 ok are you saying you tapped the neutral too?
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
@micahw6304 I read this again, to make sure we're clear, here they lineside tap to the conductors that feed the main200 and just 2 ( both hots only )and don't tap the neutral 🙊then they run the neutral from that 200a panel to the fused disconnect
@philipkinnane2488
9 ай бұрын
Yes that’s the correct way to do it, technically the ground wire should be irreversibly crimped to gec neutral can be landed on neutral bar. Load side tap you remove the green screw. It’s all in the codebook
@honestabe7349
8 ай бұрын
Simply stated don’t ground out neutrals on sub panels.
@toolsandtactics
8 ай бұрын
Yeah thanks
@Joethetoolguy
10 ай бұрын
Thats a great tip. I’ll look for this in the future
@devenr6213
Жыл бұрын
Typically when the green screw is installed they ran ahead of the first means of disconnect
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah they say because it's a line tap that that disconnect is the first means.. but the grounds and neutrals are already established so we should isolate
@codykeenan8267
Жыл бұрын
If you run a dedicated ground rod for the system it is more than acceptable to bond them in the disconnect with a piece of solid 4 running to the the rod
@marksanders8028
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t have a clue, but I believe you do and I’m not sticking my fingers in there.
@toolsandtactics
2 жыл бұрын
lol
@travishamilton1659
Жыл бұрын
You are correct sir. That is a big common mistake. I see a lot in the field
@erikkarling2176
Жыл бұрын
Good stuff. I love it when people share wisdom!
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter
2 жыл бұрын
Solid info man
@toolsandtactics
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I'm enjoying all your tips!
@brentstevens8207
8 ай бұрын
Their is a reason why you must combine the 2 together with a fused system. And by code, you cannot ground the can and use that as a path, with tying the 2 together. It must be directly connected to the lugs. It is considered a "Service" because you are tapping on the feeders, and both ground and neutral must be bonded on the same lugs.
@brentstevens8207
8 ай бұрын
So if you are tapping on the feeders in the panel, that set up is incorrect.
@whattheschmidt
7 ай бұрын
I had to have my electricians remove the ground neutral bond they did with the 100amp breaker going to my garage. My bond is in the main 200amp panel already. So simple... I don't get it. I think they were missing the ground bar to put multiple wires together at the original install.
@timmathias3576
Жыл бұрын
Need to put a ground bar in and make it easier
@carsonconlee6277
Жыл бұрын
Most ahj want them tied together in the disco. And most of these solar systems only have a neutral to power up a small computer. The solar itself doesn’t require a neutral. If you amp clamp it, there would probably be little to no current.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
I suppose I could see why on a supply side connection.. but no reason on a backfed breaker
@twoweeledsoto6072
7 ай бұрын
Is this directed at any specific solar installer? We know anyone can do this, but is there someone known to do this?
@toolsandtactics
7 ай бұрын
I see this stuff all day every day, no one specific
@JohnNguyen-iw8qn
Жыл бұрын
In my state you must be a licensed journeyman electrician to install sub or main panels for solar on residential or commercial... So that's a lot of school and training to be messing up that bad.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah lol
@garrettmcbride7539
Жыл бұрын
Actually NEC 2023 states now that you must install a GEC in fused AC disconnect on solar systems per Bill Brooks contribution to the 750 of the codebook this cycle. The EGC should no longer pass through but perm crimp onto a #6 GEC and straight to Earth. Although it is still not considered a service disconnect, it has to be installed as one when tapped behind the Over current device in the MSP. But even with that said, yes THIS specific way of installing in any scenario is wrong because there is no path to ground and most likely the Neutral is not IPC'd to the Supply side but on the MSP bonded neutral bar...... For future reference of 2023 changes for Grounding or Bonding The first draft language accepted for 705.11(D) in 2023 mimicked the balloted 2020 first draft language and stated: “All metal enclosures, metal wiring methods, and metal parts associated with the power source output conductors in 705.11(B) shall be bonded in accordance with 250.92(B). This metal equipment shall be connected to the grounding electrode system for the service at the power source disconnecting means with only one of the methods in 705.11(D)(1) or (D)(2). Where the power source uses a grounded conductor, 705.11(D)(1) shall apply”.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, attaching to the earth (in my opinion does very little) it is a higher impedance for fault... sort of an old way of doing things. the earth connection is still good but not superior and the reference truly comes from the neutral associated with the power source. so an MBJ makes senses with respect to bonding anything likely to become energized. ... that's where bonding the grounded and grounding in more than 1 place gets hairy.. the earth being the same potential in that area (equipotential) is a benefit but as far as clearing a ground fault the neutral is superior and the should have the fastest clearing time. Interesting thanks for the info and contribution!
@timmathias3576
Жыл бұрын
Also why is there two bonding bushings in the disco
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
they like spending extra money I guess haha nah probably some inspectors have no idea what they are looking and fail it! and now across the board they put them anywhere
@timmathias3576
Жыл бұрын
Also this guy caulked around the LB. I’m done
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
haha
@Cdswjp
10 ай бұрын
nice brotha
@stifflers69mom1
Жыл бұрын
Was told to never bond neutral to ground in a sub panel…..it’s all ready bonded in the main panel….is that a true statement?
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah
@curtisbowser
Жыл бұрын
In my area the inspectors told me if the system is already bonded then we have to install the green screw and if the system is not bonded then we have to tape the green screw to the side or it’s an automatic fail. Idk, I just do what they say. KCMO
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
I gave up! Bigger fish to fry... keep seeing 80-100 amp back fed breakers on 200 amp panels.... I'm the grand scheme of things I suppose it doesn't make that much of a difference with how short the wire is....
@joelss94
Жыл бұрын
One more thing the ac disconnect need shield. Eaton DG222NRB-00PV.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
yeah yup dang!! good catch!
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
missed it 😭
@joelss94
11 ай бұрын
It’s okay that happen my job too😅. I learn it. But hard find eaton with shield 😒. I have to swap to Square D
@marktheunitedstatescitezen185
Жыл бұрын
Can I use the neutral line to provide electricity to say a battery charger to charge say a 48v battery bank instead of given back the electricity I’ve bought from the electrical company ? What is stopping me from Harnessing the electrify from the neutral line to be used ?
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Possibly that's an interesting concept because you would need another line to get a true potential so image you holding the neutral that was cut left hand 1 side right hand the other side (yes this would harm you) but technically it turns 1 side into a " common" hot and the other as the return path not really a neutral lol also the get a potential you would Need another system of a ground reference also I think it would still reflect as a load and not be free
@micahmohr1619
Жыл бұрын
How did that pass inspection?
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
I Let The contractor fix it
@philipkinnane2488
9 ай бұрын
It passed because it’s correct
@micahmohr1619
9 ай бұрын
@philipkinnane2488 but here's the thing, it's not
@AgentOffice
11 ай бұрын
Very illegal to bond
@zacharyforwood9479
Жыл бұрын
I mean he’s right and he’s wrong. A wire nut is the wrong way, use a Polaris tap
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah Polaris is better
@philipkinnane2488
9 ай бұрын
Totally wrong! This is tapped in the msp? If so it’s like another service and neutrals and ground need to be bonded at first disconnect means. If it’s a backfeed breaker you wouldn’t need a fused disconnect.
@infl
Жыл бұрын
It’s a service, so the code is what the code is. Also, i will put money that the inverter connected to this only uses the neutral for voltage sensing.
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
you are correct about the low current draw on the neutral but not technically a service i backed off of this because of the neutral draw being so low though i did see a tech get shocked (a tiny 1) in a neutral like this before
@infl
Жыл бұрын
@@toolsandtactics I think the being a service thing is kinda up to interpretation. It sure does have that spicy fault current and should be treated as such. In my opinion, when you have spice like that, you want as many redundant return paths as possible. If you were to use non service rated equipment you could possibly have issues, that fault current is still there. Multi-tenant services are built with multiple bonds all the time, and you’ll often find stray neutral currents going across metal service raceways in these cases. This is one of the code topics that i’ve always liked to have discussions about. If you have any code articles about this not being a service i would be very interested in a discussion. We are on 2017 here.
@infl
Жыл бұрын
@@toolsandtactics Also pause how did he get shocked? must have been something weird going on there, like he opened it hot or something
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
@@infl yeah he did
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
@Caden Higgins that's cool, My thought of redundant paths goes as far as: the beginning of the code says in 250 Anything likely to become energized must be bonded steel,cld wtr, etc So that's good for many paths, but ultimately. Those all go to 1 point,the neutral so any ground fault eventually can get to the neutral and through the winding of the utility transformer to get to the hots to trip the breaker So that being said if a phase has 10amps b has 12 you have 2 amps of current on the neutral So you wouldn't want your grounds and nutrals bonded before the mbj you end up with 1 amp on each just as you described let me look for the references We know them as source circuits Similar to secondary conductors on a transformer but we don't call them a service but we agree they get treated the same as far a bonding In this case though the neutral on the solar got its reference from the utility panel not solar so why would we create 2 paths ? I'm I agree i love these conversations
@TheadorJohnson
9 ай бұрын
Hello sir, I was wondering about the wiring size of the throw over switch. My set up is the same to which comes from 22 solar panels to the inverter. My Solar panel Throw over switch has 6 Awg wiring going to my main house CB And 8 Awg coming from my solar panels through the inverter and to my Throw over. This just seems wrong to me since it wont hold as much amperage as the 6. The ground wire is also funky due to the face they seemed to use 3 separate wires connected i stead of using one strand of ground wire and stripping back the i sulation for the c clamps. It might be okay…. I guess it just looks jacked up to me. What do you think?
@toolsandtactics
9 ай бұрын
Sounds fine, the grounds, as long as they are all connected together, it should be ok
@mkch932
6 ай бұрын
This isn't correct information. If your interconnection is a LINE side tap you DO install this bonding screw. If it is a LOAD side tap you do NOT install the bonding screw. This is dictated by the details of the NEC articles on services, grounding and bonding, and PV systems. If you are going to profess information as fact please back it up with code references.
@brandonbenoit2600
Жыл бұрын
My boss requires we put the screw in and I know it's wrong but he insists we do .. hate it
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
It's a hot topic for sure lol I kind of back off for now until the nec gets it clear
@chacalaca3681
8 ай бұрын
This has already been in the NEC code book. You need to bond them. A line side tap is considered a new service. @@toolsandtactics
@broughttoideas
Жыл бұрын
Who in right mind would do that anyways!?
@o0Go_2_Sleep0o
Жыл бұрын
💯
@toolsandtactics
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, thanks
@aten9754
10 ай бұрын
Why are guys installing fusible disconnect?
@balrog006
9 ай бұрын
Utility requirements and local codes
@jnusmc4922
Жыл бұрын
Nothing like tying in neutral and the ground lol. dangerous
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