For that cam, there is no reason at all to run that high of spring pressure! 112-115 closed is plenty! And for those Keith Black Hyper pistons, you HAVE TO use the recommended ring gap or more to be safe! I have heard of many, many guys destroying those pistons because they didn't want to listen to the manufacturers recommendations. Live and learn, I guess.
@jimhmod
8 ай бұрын
except when it comes to iron cylinder Harley pistons, then don't set wall clearence near as tight as KB recommends. The previous builder dissed the instructions and went with the typical Hastings 3.5-4 thou per inch. Never saw a good shot at the domes to see if any detonation was going on. Hyper pistons don't like that at all. Now , what pistins will you go back with??
@ironhorse127
8 ай бұрын
140 lbs seat pressure for a flat tappet is way too much. 110-115 is about right
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice thank you for the input
@tomcumbey9029
8 ай бұрын
0.016 gap would be ok for a stock cast piston, but sounds like the KB hypers need a lot more. So I would say the too-tight gap is what broke the ring lands. Look at the ends of the rings closely and see if there are witness marks where they butted. The double spring pressures should be ok to run a FT cam, by I would definitely break it in with inner springs removed.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice thank you. The ring ends did look like they were hitting. They have wear marks on them.
@PatandDoopypoopy
7 ай бұрын
On true blue kb hyper pistons, I run .007 per inch of bore. 350 street/drag run .028. If endurance (circle track/roadrace run .009 per inch(or for nitrous).
@Scummy_shovel
8 ай бұрын
Funny story. When I was 15 my dad passed (that’s not the funny part. Rather tragic tbh). But he was in the process of building his hot rod. He had the valve covers off and I got his car so I started working on it to get it running. I wiggled the rockers and most of em was loose. And I was like. “Dang glad I checked that”. I cranked them suckers down tight. Fixed that wiggle. That’s also the same year I learned how to replace a cam lifters and pushrods. (That last part was the funny part) I’m 45 and I’m still working on that damn thing. But to my defense it’s been running and not running more times than I can count. Keeps getting better tho.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice keep it going.
@TargaWheels
8 ай бұрын
Before you took it apart, my initial guess was some or all of the rings were upside down.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Sounds reasonable to me. It would make sense for the oil burning.
@tomcumbey9029
8 ай бұрын
Also when you put it back together, I have heard several guys say you should rotate the engine over by hand and see all the lifters rotate. I would like for you to try this out and show us.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I like it. Thank you.
@Scummy_shovel
8 ай бұрын
Yep. Rotate it 3 times. Slap the valve cover and say. “That baby is gonna scream”. Hasn’t failed me yet. I barely hardly ever blow up my engines.
@steelcitycaprice.899
8 ай бұрын
I watch to learn..hope to find out issue before I put my failure back together. 🙄
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice I hope everything goes well.
@OneMoreBolt
8 ай бұрын
Good talk through the diagnostics. I think there was two separate issues that occurred at the same time. The cam was failing, probably due to failed break-in (maybe procedure, maybe parts quality, who knows). The issue I find more concerning is the cracked pistons. I would have thought that 16 thou would have been good but I guess if the parts were specific to that KB spec sheet it wasn't enough. Anyway, looks like this disaster was identified soon enough for this engine to be salvageable.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the input. Yes I think I can get it back together on a budget. I didn't think it would be a problem either at first.
@bobplatzkow
8 ай бұрын
ring gap break in oil stop using hyper pistons after the first half dozen failures because of similar issues i quit using them in the early 2000s in truck apps towing heavy loads i would find piston parts the size of a quarter in the pan and not hurt any thing else
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I'm curious if that was from detonation. Thanks for the input.
@bobplatzkow
7 ай бұрын
probably with factor hei distributor the curved in them will go to almost 50 degrees if you dont limitmthem@@nylegreen261
@leonardfoster6252
8 ай бұрын
I run 150 lbs. on a flat tappet cam made by Competition Cams with no problem... .630" and .637" lift. Tirn engine at 7,000 rpm... Some of the rings must of been installed wrong, upside down? How are the valve guides?
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I checked the rings and they were installed correctly. Whats the best way to check the valve guides. Thank you.
@rebekahfrench5747
8 ай бұрын
Muppet should have stuck to building briggs n strattons.. 🤣🤣🤣
@VORTECPRO
6 ай бұрын
Nyle-did you like my L98 350 drag test on Speedtalk?
@nylegreen261
6 ай бұрын
Nice I will look into it. I always enjoy your work and testing. I have taken the last month off from cars. I have been active with my kids activities lately.
@kristjanstefansson2765
8 ай бұрын
Looks like a typical KB piston with not enough ring gap!
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I wouldn't of thought a ring gap of .016 would cause problems. I have changed my mind.
@Anarchy-Is-Liberty
8 ай бұрын
@@nylegreen261 Guy after guy after guy has done this, people just don't learn!! Manufacturer recommends their own specs for a reason.
@kristjanstefansson2765
8 ай бұрын
They require a larger top end gap because of their thermal expansion and the top ring begin close to the top of the piston. It’s the only thing i see wrong there. They do list the 2nd end gap at 0.004” x bore so 0.016” should be ok there. On the other issue I don’t think the springs would cause issues on brake in IF the cam was broken in with the outer spring only. But since you didn’t assemble it there’s no way of saying it was done correctly. P.s. is this engine going in your Nova for a Drag test after it’s been fixed up ?
@jwoodshed1108
8 ай бұрын
Not sure if you are asking what went wrong or if you want the audience to find the problem. Either way it clearly states 0.026 gap. And you have 0.016 That gap needs opened up about 37%. Hope that puts the small amount into perspective.
@hackertheslacker
8 ай бұрын
Yup, Top ring gap too tight. That's for sure. I probably have the same pistons, KB Claimer UEM but 4.030" Instructions are very clear. You'll pop the top off once the rings expand with heat. It needs the extra few thou they recommend. Too bad. Quite a bit of money gone.
@shoelessb4515
7 күн бұрын
Any signs of a nitrous kit having been installed? Even a 125 plate shot will crack pistons when ring gaps are tight or nitrous applied at low rpm. Id guess tight rings, bearing clearance and bad cam break in. are the chambers sooty ?
@nylegreen261
6 күн бұрын
@shoelessb4515 Yes, sooty Chambers. No I don't think nitrous kit was on it.
@Grinchguy1
8 ай бұрын
There was a time when Chevrolet built good engines, like the 350. Rebuild it stock, and then just drive it. No oil leaks, no oil consumption. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice, nothing wrong with that.
@111000100101001
8 ай бұрын
Nice balanced forged steel crank she has :) I concur on not enough ring gap and second scraper rings put in upside down.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice thank you. I thought the same thing on the second ring. They were in correctly with the top marks up.
@mikefoley7561
8 ай бұрын
Bearings look like crap don’t think they would’ve made it another 2000 miles
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Agreed they were getting torn up by debris.
@patrickmoore1017
8 ай бұрын
.016" ring gap is certainly not enough. If you look at the contact pattern on the cam lobes, it looks as though the cam to lifter interface is perfect, with the lifter riding the front edge of the lobes. Here lately I've been breaking in flat tappet cams with Quaker State 5w-30 full synthetic oil and have never had a problem with the correct springs for the cam installed, which for me are Competition Cams 986's. To be safe though, go ahead and break the next cam in on your LS6 springs. Also, I think you may have mis-spoke about your retainer to valve clearance as .300" isn't nearly enough. It seems as though your calipers were further apart than .300".
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice thank you for the input. Caliper was at .950. Installed height 1.75. Cam lift a was .510.
@PatandDoopypoopy
7 ай бұрын
@nylegreen261 hi nyle. Keep the valve guide as long as possible. Many people cut them down way way to much. If I knew I was playing with different cams, clearence for the biggest. As for how much a person needs, I set mine at .050 beyond the most lift I thought I'd ever run.
@dalewarriorofthesea3998
8 ай бұрын
Open up all the ring gaps Increasng second ring more then the top ring match top oil ring with second , allows combustion gases to not be trapped between the rings Helps control ring flutter caused by trapped gasses When rings butt its all over , using this method will maximise ring seal and operation Slightly bigger gaps won't hurt
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I like it thank you.
@karlplaysdrums
8 ай бұрын
You are correct.
@chrismusgrove9820
7 ай бұрын
Nyle Geeen how can I get ahold of you, I have some questions about a nova I am building…. Maybe an email?
@nylegreen261
6 ай бұрын
Let me think about the best way. Give me a few.
@nicholasarment4457
8 ай бұрын
Open spring is a little high but still exceptable. I didn't see you look at the ring end gaps. They will be shiny if they touch. How much timing was in the motor when it was run.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I'm not sure on the timing. Yes the ring ends were shiny.
@joshuashuck3994
8 ай бұрын
I wouldn’t have thought it was the end gap but I didn’t realize KB needed a bunch more. I had a buddy who used cheap pistons, high compression and 87 octane that looked similar. I’m of the thought that a lot of cam failures are either due to lifter surface finish or improper convex spec. My last build I used GM replacement lifters. Made in America and have a hardened bottom friction welded on. I was careful on break in (took the inners out) and use a zinc rich oil. No problems yet 🤞
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice thank you for the input. I will look into the gm lifters.
@Spiritof_76
8 ай бұрын
The gm lifters with the hard disks are all I use. I'm sending a used set in to be rebuilt rather than using aftermarket lifters without the hard disks. I bought several sets of new ones (hl66 or 5232720) several years ago for all my sbc engine builds.
@leonardfoster6252
8 ай бұрын
No, it didn't have too much spring pressure...
@UQRXD
8 ай бұрын
BAd back yard rebuild.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I'm not sure if it was a backyard build. But it definitely had problems.
@jacquelinechellis4036
8 ай бұрын
Probably didnt help the bearings when those pistons broke. .026 thats gonna get missed. Read those instructions
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Will do thank you.
@leonardfoster6252
8 ай бұрын
Usually went the cam starts to go flat, metal gets in the bearings and imbeds in the skirts of the pistons, this is what I have seen on a tear down of the engine and gets in the oil pump...
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Thank you. I appreciate the input.
@Scummy_shovel
8 ай бұрын
I know. Ya ant got no gas in it. That’s a sexy looking crank tho. All balanced and stuff. :::Whistles
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Nice thank you
@Joshua-kx7dl
2 ай бұрын
Grade 7 cromoly piston crower forged crank Manley aluminum rods crome piston rings crome rod bolts crome bushed wrist pin cromoly Spiro locks crome plated cylinders chrome plated brodix late-model spec head all crome plated on the inside of everything cam spec roller 224 224 680in 680ex lift 10.5 to 1 comp edlebrock 2325 intake holler custom 800cfm mech carb msd 7al box ignition chrome plated plugs windage tray copper head gaskest 4 bolt main block msd small diameter distributor chrome plated stainless steel valves ......9000rpm plus zero balanced...
@lucasdespain6604
6 ай бұрын
When are you making a new video? I watched this over a month ago!!!
@nylegreen261
6 ай бұрын
I have a few in the works. Thanks for watching.
@jeffsousa399
4 ай бұрын
Too much for break in, use 100# less for first 1000 miles, and then go back to the LS springs!.. need to seat it properly without killing the cam, or just step up to a solid Roller…
@joe-hp4nk
6 ай бұрын
Were the pistons cast or forged? I bought a short block and he said the pistons were forged, eventually I lost all compression on #7. When I tore it down the #7 piston was cast and the ring lands were broken like yours, the other pistons were forged and looked fine.
@AntonioPhillips-w8r
4 ай бұрын
Gaping was wrong and i don't know why your cam like that but if it has big lift it would not matter just need adjustment who ever built it was a complete amateur😂😂😂😂❤❤
@joe-hp4nk
6 ай бұрын
I don't mess with flat tappet cams any more. I go roller, yes they're expensive but they don't go flat and the cost and time of replacing flat tappet cams far out weight the extra cost of a roller.
@WesternReloader
8 ай бұрын
Ring end gap was set at 4 thou instead of the required 6.25 thou. Simple as that
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
This surprised me. It has been 15 years since I have file fitted a set of rings. I have used .004 per inch bore in the past. Ran fine for a couple of years n/a. Sold engine. New owner put a 150 shot of nitrous on it and broke a piston.
@ceciltrane5418
8 ай бұрын
I'm thinking if the consensus is 16 thousandths is too little gap, how much worse it will be on a 150 shot. Did exactly this myself a few years back. Motor ran excellent until nitrous. Same damage afterward. I probably had the same marginal gap until nitrous exposed it. Good luck, sir.
@Classickoolcars
5 ай бұрын
Ahhhhh NOS……. Definitely need bigger gaps for power adders and how much timing did they retard the timing for NOS or just bang it in😱😱. Detonation will destroy ring lands also👍. Loving ya vids man. Keep up the great work 👍👍
@ludditeneaderthal
8 ай бұрын
Ok, obviously the gap was too tight. But what about piston/bore clearance? Or the cam going houdini messing up oil spray on the underside of the piston? Run too lean? Im gonna bet on "gap too tight, but crowns got a bit too summery too". Aftermarket flat tappets are iffy at best these days, even previously reputable hi-po ones. Since you're gonna build her anyway, retrofit rollers might save you significant grief. Flats are "dinosaur stuff" as far as manufacturers are concerned, as all modern pushrod motors run rollers now. Gonna be less incentive to invest in tooling for flatties. That equals stretching tool life quite a bit beyond what used to be accepted. Like the other guy said, if youre gonna run flats, pony up for the oem bowtie hard faced ones, even if the aftermarket "race" ones make your bank account happier, lol.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Not a bad idea. Looking into a hydraulic roller.
@frigglebiscuit7484
8 ай бұрын
ring gap was too tight, ring ends touched, popped the side of the piston.
@frigglebiscuit7484
8 ай бұрын
the bottom of the rockers is from someone tightening the rockers all the way down, bottoming out the lifters, which is what made the cam wipe.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Sounds reasonable thanks for the input.
@Stainlessslayer
8 ай бұрын
I am curious about compression ratio and timing. Spring pressures sound good. Ring gap seems a bit tight. Spark plugs have any dust on them?
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Looks like compression was around 10:1. With around .065 of quench. I will take a look at the plugs.
@pacman3908
8 ай бұрын
Hyper pistons gap at 26 thousands per instructions
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I'm on it thank you.
@2nickles647
8 ай бұрын
It appears the engine was bored? I saw the formula for setting ring end gaps. I would suggest following the formula sir. Seems with busted lands on the pistons. Is it possible the engine was pre-ignition issues?
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Yes it has a 4.040 bore. Will follow the formula on the next set of pistons. Pre-ignition is possible. I will check the plugs over.
@The340king
8 ай бұрын
That engine was dirty when it fired up. The ring gap was the big culprit. There have been some significant issues with lifters lately. It very well could be due to the lifters.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the input. Im going to do some research on lifters and try to get a good set.
@The340king
8 ай бұрын
@nylegreen261 from what I have learned, Johnson lifters have been good lately. I think you can get most cams in decent shape. It's just the lifters that are an issue.
@Scummy_shovel
8 ай бұрын
Remember. To much ring gap. No problemo. Not enough ring gap. Kaploey
@kurtdobson
8 ай бұрын
You may have forgotten to install the piston return springs...😊
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
LoL nice
@MrMopar413
7 ай бұрын
Maybe the muffler bearings where set to tight 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤪🤪😂😂😂👍
@babayegajaeger7082
7 ай бұрын
Both
@bobbyhackney988
3 ай бұрын
Too much spring and not enough ring gap
@scottosborne8735
8 ай бұрын
NOT ENOUGH RING END GAP.
@andy347495
8 ай бұрын
what's a ringing gap?
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I think ringing gap. Is ring end gap sorry about that.
@Anarchy-Is-Liberty
8 ай бұрын
A ringing gap is what happens to your neck after being a smart ass and a guy's had enough of your shit!! lol
@mikasantos3774
8 ай бұрын
That's not a Keith Black piston
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
My research came up with uem pistons. They make kb and silvolite pistons.
@thepoopsoup
8 ай бұрын
016 is fine clearance, Cylinder wall clearance? To tight and assembly lube didn't get to job done Lubriplate 105 always. Did you deburr the lifter holes after being shotbeaded. Brek in should be 3000 rpm after oil pump being primed.
@nylegreen261
8 ай бұрын
I will run dial bore gauge down the cylinders to check. I will check the lifter bores for sharp edges. Thank you.
@PatandDoopypoopy
7 ай бұрын
Kb is the original hyper piston. Has always needed more end gap than competitors. Ive run those pistons for over 20 years in my dirt track car. I love em. Edit' just an fyi- for my application (dirt oval/endurance) I ran .030 top and .040 for 2nd ring. (On a 355 chevy). With .0045-.005 skirt clearence. Never broke or cracked 1. Just a tip - run extra pin clearence. I ran .001- .0015.
@nylegreen261
7 ай бұрын
Nice I have a set of kb pistons to replace these. Any recommendations to make them work. What piston to wall clearance have you ran. Have the pins been tight on the pistons.
@PatandDoopypoopy
7 ай бұрын
@nylegreen261 for your drag stuff you can run tighter than my oval track specs. (I am a legit machinist and builder). If staying naturally aspirated, run .0035 skirt clearence. Run 026 top ring and 036 second ring. Absolutely run .0012 min pin clearence. Also touch up piston pin boss on legit rod mandrel hone. To be sure it's straight and nice oil film holding hatch finish. I ran both floating and pressed pins. I also ran lite weight pin and never a failure. (88 gram pins versus 134). Ps- to much end gape will not hurt. You'll never notice. At 026 or put at 032 ish if nitrous a thought. I've made 600hp+, rev 7200+ for 24 races, 60+ laps a race. Some sets of pistons ran 5 or more seasons. (I ran flat top, single trough style. They were half the cost of Ross forged. And I did use good plasma moly rings(or hell fire rings) about 300/set with low tension oil rings. But I ran about 30 races ( full season and some other races) on 1 set of rings. Amsoil racing 20-50 with zinc/phosphate additive (I used about 1800ppm of zinc and phosphates). Never any noticeable ring wear. I do have more budget ways if you want to know. Happy to help. Great video content.
@PatandDoopypoopy
7 ай бұрын
@nylegreen261 if you'll post the part # of pistons you may use, I'll take a look. Some have different chemical content- calling for specific specs of course. Okie doke be well.
@nylegreen261
7 ай бұрын
@@PatandDoopypoopy Great input thank you. There's alot to unpack here.
@PatandDoopypoopy
7 ай бұрын
@nylegreen261 there is. I threw alot of info. And there are economical ways to do some of it. Let er rip. Might we see sub 10.5's??
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