I’ve been doing suspension for 30 years now... I’m pretty sure I couldn’t explain it better... well done sir...
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, my man! Cheers!
@kaylamccall1051
Жыл бұрын
Guys like you are invaluable! I wish I could buy you guys a beer or 30 for sharing with us dummies!
@donziperk
Жыл бұрын
I have also built suspensions for years and that demo model was exactly what I need to explain to customers how it all works. Or I can just refer them to this outstanding video. Thank you.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Kayla! No beers necessary. That was thanks enough! 🙏
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Yes! Please do share @donziperk! Happy to be of service my friend.
@BOBANDERSON5150
Жыл бұрын
When I'm fabbing something, I refer to it as a "Shopping Cart Handle" to keep people guessing. It's especially satisfying when someone agrees with me.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Hahaha! 😂 There are so many incorrect terms that just make more sense than whatever the real term is. Cheers, Bob!
@designandbuild3953
2 жыл бұрын
Knowledge is among the greatest gifts that can be given, and you have a gift for giving it. Love that visual aid! Almost want to go build one just to play with. This channel is gonna be a huge success.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
It is in fact a really fun adult toy. I’m hoping I can use it to demonstrate front suspension as well but I worry it’ll be too small. I predict I’m going to have to create a more life sized model. Time will tell. Thank you my man! I’m definitely trying. 😅
@kingpin76110
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree. Nice work Sir. You def have a knack for teaching.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Much appreciated my friend. 🙏 See you in the next video Monday morning!
@cotybrown1226
3 жыл бұрын
Love these lessons as much as the builds. There's a lot of people in the mini truckin scene, new and old, that can benefit from knowing the basics. Build it right the first time.
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed! I learned a bit from Mini Truckin Joe's KZitem back in the day and I was super grateful. I always kinda wanted to be that guy. Thank you, Brother.
@skyonedesignersplus1066
2 жыл бұрын
Thank-you 🤜🏾/l am researching the link process for my chevy S-10 and the youtube(Al) brought me to this video--so this video reads over a year ago and l want to be careful in saying you just invited us to10 years worth of knowledge in a 12:36 setting. So not to possibly start a comment war...and that's not even close enough-l will be going back to the start of your videos and thanks again. When l actually do start my s-10 build the 4-link will be my choice 💥💯
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
You are appreciated my man! I hope you find the videos helpful. Can’t wait to see what you build! 🙌
@v.e.7236
11 ай бұрын
I really like the triangulated four-link I installed on my S-10 Blazer Extreme, as it gave that little truck a road-racer feel - we're talking serious lateral Gs. Air Ride has a front suspension upgrade/mod that completely eliminates the bump-steer so inherent to that chassis and it drives like its on rails and puts a big cheeseburger grin on my face every time I go through some twisties on some random backroad. Driver bliss!
@GarageFab
11 ай бұрын
I’d love to see what that kit looks like. You make it sound awesome. 👏
@v.e.7236
11 ай бұрын
@@GarageFab Sadly, a drunk driver took it out, while parked in front of my sister's house one Saturday morning - about a month ago. I'm looking for a replacement vehicle to swap all of my go-fast goodies over to. Would love to find another 2DR Blazer - love the look. Wouldn't mind a stepside, like an extrnded cab Sanoma or something similar. I'd just gotten ahold of an LS6 off Craig's List, to drop in, as well. Makes me ill just thinking about it. smh The suspension kit from AirRide is pretty sweet, w/ adjustable Shockwave airshocks up front and similar in back w/ a triangulated 4-link underneath, but it wasn't cheap, at just over $5K. Took a while to collect the ducats on a fixed income. Not sure I can even make a "replacement" happen.
@obiknobi8447
2 жыл бұрын
I'm really enjoying your content. In our town there are zero suspension specialists. Only OEM parts replacement "specialists"/"technicians". Your channel is guiding me through my 2, now forced, DIY projects. D21 Nissan & 521 Datsun. Thanks again from sunny 🇿🇦🇿🇦✌
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
That’s exciting to hear! I said in a video once, “If you don’t have a fabricator in your area, now is a good time to become a fabricator in your area.” If you’ve got questions, feel free to ask! I’ll be answering every comment until I’m overwhelmed with comments. Best of luck on your builds my friend. And thank you for your kind words! 🙏
@obiknobi8447
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab I definitely will, thanks again.
@Dono.N
6 ай бұрын
When I swapped from stock 4-link on my 94 ram cummins to radius arms on the front suspension. I did one side at a time and when I did it I adjusted the radius arm to match the angle maintained by the side that still had the 4 link installed. The angle was perfect and then did the same thing when changing the second side. I think it would work for installing the 4 link if you can maintain one side at a time, or at least get your angles before you disassemble.
@bostonbikebits6539
2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant video, much appreciated. I am just about to start a 1950 Ford Prefect project, this vid has helped me decide on the triangulated 4 bar for my rear end - a shortened Volvo 244 live axle.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you my friend! I was not familiar with the Volvo axle before today. I had to do some looking. Does it have a factory watts link installed? You may already know this, but if you have a watts link, a triangulated 4 link isn’t needed. And conversely if you have a triangulated 4 link, a watts link isn’t needed. Either way, I’m excited to see what you build! I haven’t seen a whole lot of Prefects rolling around. (Ok I haven’t seen any) The more rare the better! Cheers!
@bostonbikebits6539
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab The axle has no Watts link on it - it's just a bare , straight axle at the moment.
@joshreese1721
Жыл бұрын
I'm definitely not tired of these "school" type videos. I find them very helpful and your models and drawings are amazing. I know how much time they take. I really appreciate them.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
That’s good to hear. Thank you, Josh. It’s hard for me to make this type of learning interesting. I appreciate you back!
@JackTulsen77
Жыл бұрын
Let's not forget how nice his voice is... No homo, homies.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Haha! Thank you, Jack. 🙏
@huseyindemiral6856
3 жыл бұрын
I learn a lot from you technically and theoretically. Endless thanks you are awesome
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!! Your words are greatly appreciated. There’s more on the way. Soon I hope. 😉
@ronozeri7088
3 ай бұрын
just wondering how all of these would articulate, how these would function when one wheel is higher then the other with the frame level, thank you for this amazing video
@johnheadley7650
Жыл бұрын
Great video! thank you! I have a pretty good background, you explained the intricate parts in a way that was easily understandable! The triangulated 4 link is the best rear setup! now I have to get busy!! I'm building an off road Jeep so I need more travel, hence the better geometry is even more important!
@joell439
2 жыл бұрын
👍👍😎👍👍 - you make it easy to keep moving forward. This episode helped clarify a few things for me. Thank you
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated man! 🍻
@vannigiovannigio8861
2 жыл бұрын
Dam superb job. Thank you professor. I know you had fun making that frame on a bench. Can't wait to see the front end.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I did have fun with that! I was hoping to use that model for explaining front suspension as well but I worry it’s much too small. Not sure I have the time for microscopic sculpting of control arms. Thank you! I appreciate you.
@vannigiovannigio8861
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab It takes a special type of person to want to go way out of their way and take up amounts of their time in attempt to educate others.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I imagine there’s some selfishness in there somewhere. If I wasn’t having fun, I wouldn’t do it. Thank you, my friend. I greatly appreciate your kind words. 🍻
@vannigiovannigio8861
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab str8 up.
@adibasmara
2 жыл бұрын
You're such a good teacher
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Very much appreciated, Adib! 🙏 Thank you.
@bobbyshaftoe
6 ай бұрын
What a fantastic vid/series. Great job.
@AndrewWilliams-vg5lg
2 жыл бұрын
I've been watching your link geometry videos so far and I love them! Thank you so much! My only question is what determines the length of the lower link to start basing everything else off of? Maybe you'll discuss this in a future video?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Andrew! I do plan on including that in one of the next couple videos right after we weld link bar tabs onto the crossmember. In my process, the link bars are made to fit your vehicle so you won’t know the lengths until just before you need to install them. My process goes a little like this: One of the first things you need to do when starting the rear suspension, even before taking the factory suspension out, is mark the frame where the rear axle is positioned. This mark should be pretty close to center in the wheel opening. Later you can determine if this mark is where the wheel will be positioned at ride height or when it’s laying on the pavement. (Personal preference) Second thing is building the front crossmember where the link bar tabs will be. Ideally, on adjustable suspension, the goal is to make the link bars as close to the length of the drive shaft as possible. Usually the best we can do is just make them as long as we can by putting the crossmember directly behind the cab. There will be a video explaining why soon as well. Third step is welding link bar tabs to the cross member. Now if you position your axle where you want it, you can determine the length of the link bars by measuring the distance from the holes in the front link bar tabs to center of the axle. Once link bars are made to that measurement. Only then can you put the bars in place and create link bar tabs for the axle. Hope this helps. Explaining clearly in text is much harder than video.
@AndrewWilliams-vg5lg
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab I'm actually building an offroad application, so minor differences here and there haha, but everything you've explained so far and in this response as well has been a HUGE help. I'm following along perfect so your explanations have been great. So basically I'm gathering lower link length should IDEALLY be equal length to the driveshaft (which makes sense for plunge and pinion angle), although typically we can only make them as long as practical per project platform. Us offroad guys typically mount the lowers to the outside of the frame rails and somewhere under the cab, so it sounds like I should make the links as long as possible without hitting the cab at full bump, while keeping in mind the geometry for pinion angle to decide upper link length, and may have to shorten up lower link length for optimal geometry. Looking forward to following videos! Really enjoying the wealth of knowledge.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
It sounds like you understand perfectly. Luckily most drive shafts have a slip yoke, so matching the link length to the drive shaft isn’t mandatory but it’s still a good thing to keep in mind especially if you expect a lot of travel. Over-look this tidbit and you might find yourself ramming the drive shaft into the trans or pulling the drive shaft out. Both would suck. Keep in mind that there’s a lot of important info you likely won’t get on my channel since most of my knowledge is rooted in air suspension. Things like instant center go out the window when you install parallel bars which may or may not be important in off-road scenarios. Make sure you talk to folks with more knowledge than me in that department.
@markahaveman4495
Жыл бұрын
Just found your video, awesome,and very informative. My question is,axle link bar placement and frame crossmember placement. 30deg or 45deg? And link bar length difference? Like 70% longer lower bar? I'm linking up my 68 fairlane fastback.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Hey mark! Thank you! You are very much appreciated. 🙏 Tell me a little about your plans. What type of suspension? Parallel 4 link or Triangulated 4 link? Static or adjustable height? What do you plan to do with your Fairlane? Race it? Just cruise the streets? Things vary a LOT with different types of suspensions and uses. Things also change from car to car because physics change. I can try and steer you in the right direction but I’m not sure how specific I can be. But I’m happy to try!
@rashlaninburhan
Жыл бұрын
Super informational explanation. Do rear link have to match the front links in length or can front be shorter because of lack of space. I already build rear links the length of upper and lower is same length about 1 meter.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed my friend! Front links won’t have anything to do with the rears. In general, the longer the better, within reason. Longer bars will minimize the amount an axle moves forward and back as the suspension moves, but link bars also need to play nicely with drive shafts. The closer the link bars are in length to the drive shaft, the less the driveshaft has to move (via the slip yoke) 4 wheel drive trucks will usually have a shorter front drive shaft so shorter Link bars would be expected. Hopefully this makes sense. If not, I have a video planned that I’ll call “Third Links” that will talk about the relationship between Suspension components and non suspension components like drive shafts, CV axles, steering Tie Rods etc.
@corbandallas8644
3 жыл бұрын
STRAIGHT banga ass video man. That model setup up. The "thumbs down" you're getting are from people who thought an ap would tell em how to setup a rear suspension. Stay up
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
That or they’re from the super knowledgeable people that know I’m full of crap. 😂 JK Thank you Brother. I appreciate you.
@terrysibley9636
2 жыл бұрын
In a triangulated 4 link set-up, no air bags, just a hot corner turner, should the 4 bars remain parallel to each other as far as the distance between them. This will be my first 4 link build and your videos are very informative thank you so much, love the little truck that's on the opening of the video. It's really a nice piece. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Take care happy new year from off the grid in AZ.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I can only give you some very basic advice on that as I’m not an expert when it comes to performance handling. If your vehicle suspension height is NOT adjustable it’s NOT important that your bars are parallel. In fact if done properly you can increase traction on acceleration by bringing the front upper and lower bushings closer together. Imagine drawing a line through the upper and lower bars so they extend forward. Those imaginary lines should intersect somewhere near the bumper/grill area. You can learn more about this by researching “Instant Center.” I stress keeping link bars parallel only to prevent U-joint damaged in vehicles that have the ability to cruise at a 2 inch ride height one moment and 6 inches the next. Hope this helps. Thank you for the kind words, Terry!
@terrysibley9636
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab that was a really fast response. I'm putting my 2000 ranger back together. All new set up. The v8 is a the machine shop and the truck is almost,lol ready to come inside. But any direction is helpful. It's not going do be designed for drag racing, but as a highway star. Should be a lot of fun. I do really enjoy the videos, the frame rotisserie build was extremely insightful. Keep building and making videos
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Terry. I’ma sucker for big engines in little trucks. I look forward to seeing what you build! Cheers!
@terrysibley9636
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab thank you. Well, can't anyone say that you don't reply. EVER!!. Haven't been a subscriber fir that long, but your reasoning and applications or spot on. I was particularly intrigued by your rotisserie. I thought that was the cats Meow, and it didn't cost 800 bucks. Have a great day, look forward to more videos.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Haha! That’s a goal of mine. At least until I get so many comments I physically can’t respond. Thanks again!
@ronaldjohnson438
8 ай бұрын
Can you do a video on the wishbone suspension setup. And is it true that it can be used in High performance in a straight line (1/4 mile run, street racing)?
@GarageFab
8 ай бұрын
I think it’s VERY commonly used in drag racing. I will certainly be doing a video but it might be a ways down the road. I’ll be building a suspension sample truck that can be equipped with every popular suspension setup and tested. I need more space before starting that project. In short, the wishbone suspension is nearly the same as the triangulated 4 link except in the wishbone, the angled bars are bonded together as one non-flexible unit.
@agent0444
9 ай бұрын
Can you go more in to depth with the triangulated 4 link to keep pinion angle the same through the range of travel . Kinda confused on that one 😅 like how do you figure out the length or where to mount them (how to calculate mounting points )
@barryargent1830
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, very informative
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Barry! You are appreciated. 🙏
@williampoff2537
Жыл бұрын
spot on! great info!
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Yes! Thank you for watching, William.
@markschultz1606
2 жыл бұрын
Shopping cart handle... Got it!
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Noooo! 😂
@Notmypresident2024
2 жыл бұрын
those little frames are badass forsale i need more desk flair lol
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed! That would be an amazing little display toy. You could build your suspension before you build your suspension. I wonder what that would cost to manufacture. I certainly wouldn’t make them. That would take forever! 😳
@Notmypresident2024
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab oh I bet those little frame pieces would be a pain in the ass forsure that’s a damn good idea too I’m glad mines done and functions properly great videos if you change your mind on those frames in your video I’ll gladly send my info over lol I would look good sitting on my desk to bad we can’t make a Slam Specialties bag that small lol
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you my man!! 🙏
@sewkingwet
2 жыл бұрын
bro you are clear and concise, great explanations and that model helps with it all. well though out and well delivered
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you my man! Your kind words are greatly appreciated.
@johnthorpe7709
2 жыл бұрын
Very fun to watch and I'm learning a lot! All I need now is an 18$ grinder & learn which axes word to use to open my own fab shop! I never hear any talk about the 4 link and handling , mostly drag racing,off road and slammed mini's . My truck is an 01 2 wd lowered taco set up for road racing ,auto cross and street . What would I do different on a triangulated 4 bar to lower the roll center ?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I wish I could see your Taco on the track! First make sure you actually want to lower your roll center. That’ll increase body roll if your sway bar isn’t up to the task. Generally you want your roll center fairly close to your center of gravity. Beyond that, that’s a question that’s a little too complex to answer in a comment section, I haven’t yet created a video on the topic so I’ll have to refer you to a video I like from Busted Knuckle Off Road: kzitem.info/news/bejne/1ICZtG19sqyJoYI What I don’t recall him mentioning though is changing roll center in a vehicle that’s already built which would require remaking all the link bar mounts in order to lower them in relation to the frame and axle. I wish I could help more, John! Thank you for the kind words. Cheers!
@drericawarren
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! My truck has custom made alcan leafs and I was wondering if changing to a 4 bar would make it handle better?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
@@drericawarren I’m not familiar with Alcan but my first instinct is yes, a link bar setup is far superior than any leaf I know. Bars are much more rigid so there’s not all kinds bouncing and vibrating that causes traction loss. Link setups are tunable so you can perfect how it handles. Leafs just do what they want.
@johnthorpe7709
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Alcan is a company that makes one off leafs to fit your build .Looks like I may be building a Triangle / 4 link . I'm a finish carpenter and it looks like most of the work is measuring ,I'm planning on making everything ,wondering where best place to source tubing, heim's ,tube ends and hardware ?Hopefully a one stop shop ,I'm not looking to beat someone up over a couple dollars . Garage fab I thank you !!!
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnthorpe7709 Sounds like you do fine. You’re probably a lot better at calculating angles than I am. Check Thorbros.com. That’s where I get all my stuff. And you’re more than welcome, John. I appreciate you.
@BazarBG
Жыл бұрын
So it's time to ask. Is there any difference when the apex of the triangle in triangulated four link is on the dif or vice versa? Really love your videos. Keep em coming.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Yes! There is a difference though most people wouldn’t be able to tell. The “roll center” for the rear of the vehicle is located at the tip of that triangle. (That’s the point that the chassis rotates around as the body rolls in turns.) Each orientation puts the rear roll center in different locations. The “roll axis” of the vehicle is essentially a line drawn through the front and rear roll centers and is the axis on which the entire vehicle rotates. By changing the rear roll center location, you also change the roll axis, and that will affect handling. But again, unless you race, and fractions of a second count, it’s not likely something that would be noticeable.
@BazarBG
Жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab so if the tip of the triangle is on the differential, the roll center is further back, and the distance between front and back roll centers is greater. Right? Logically assuming it will give more stability. Just working on a mini project from scratch, and made first the links and now it's time to decide how to place the. Thanks for the reply. Don't want just to blindly copy stuff but to know what and why is happening. That's why l am asking questions.
@Niko-iw1sr
Жыл бұрын
Try a bright light on the right and a light about 1/4 as bright on the left
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Is that photography advise? If so, that’s exactly what I do! 😆 (Just reversed) I’m a retired wedding photographer.
@Niko-iw1sr
Жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Yeah, I was trying to figure out why it looked like you had a broken nose and I realized its because of the aggressive shadow so I assumed you only had one bright light on the right side (your left or maybe right if the image is flipped).
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
@Niko-iw1sr Well also my nose is crooked AF. 😆
@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife
2 жыл бұрын
what about dual triangulated four links? is there a benefit? and if so, would that just be more sturdiness?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t have much knowledge on that one. Why sugar coat it? I don’t really have any knowledge on that one! I haven’t built one yet, I haven’t worked on one and I haven’t driven one! But from my knowledge of triangulated 4 links, doubling up on the triangulated bars would certainly increase the lateral stability of the axle. Beyond that, I can’t tell you any other benefits. A question I have is where the vehicle’s rear roll center is on that setup. On a typical triangulated 4 link, the roll center is where the two angled bars theoretically intersect. That said, I have to assume then that with two triangles the roll center is midway between the two intersecting points. Without knowing that for sure I’d recommend the double triangulated 4 link only on rock crawlers and slow moving vehicles. Sorry if that was babbling. Cheers!
@sabadabigarage1595
Жыл бұрын
Can you explain the triangle four link. Question isn’t there a maximum swing angle it permits since the higher or lower it swings away the distance wants to increase thus limiting the swing angle. Please explain
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Sorry my friend, I’m not fully understanding the question. Mostly I’m not clear on what you mean by the increasing distance during the swing. The most common way triangulated setups are created causes the bushings to deflect unnaturally. I design mine differently for that reason. Could you try and clarify? Cheers!
@sabadabigarage1595
Жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab The upper link bars are at an angle with the axis of the bushings per link bar being parallel Therefore if one has to disconnect a link bar on the axle side and leave the other end mounted to the frame. The trajectory of the link bar let’s say at horizontal too vertical would cause the distance of the link bar to go further away from the centerline of the vehicle as the link bar on the axle end moves upward. Imagine this happening on both sides The link bar on the left will want to pull the axle to the left and vice versa for the link bar on the right So to me there should be a permissible limit that is allowed that won’t rip off the mounts or bend the link bars. Unless I am getting this 100 % wrong The Toyota kp60 has a setup link that and many other videos on KZitem with the triangular 4 link I hope I didnt make it worse
@timleonard86
Жыл бұрын
Can you do a video on the 3d model lol where you sourced the pieces
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Hey Tim! Sorry, no video, but here’s the info; I purchased the link bars from Amazon. amzn.to/3KdNMA1 The frame I built from 1/2x1/2 inch steel tubing. And the wheels are idler bearings for a Toyota V8 timing belt. (2002 Toyota Sequoia perhaps?)
@HeidiFegles
8 ай бұрын
Trig is the correct math. But then you test fit and you still have to finagle the end result to get it to work. Having your set up so you can tack it up and test it with a jack befor welding it out and finishing it up
@AngelO-zj4rw
3 жыл бұрын
Very informative nice 👍 job
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you my friend! 🙏
@MarioLopez-tp3vt
9 ай бұрын
Can I use a wishbone rear end locator to keep my rear end centered on my truck with 1960-72 c10 trailing arms
@Ruger5_56
2 жыл бұрын
With a triangulated Ford link suspension set up correctly with a rear stabilizer bar be Noll and void or will it still help to manage body roll and at what point will you start seeing diminished returns
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
The important thing to understand, Adam, is how a panhard bar works compared to how a triangulated link system works. In short, the triangulated link setup causes an axle to move straight up and down in relation to the vehicle frame. A panhard bar forces the axle to move on an arc essentially shifting the axle left and right in relation to the frame. That said, if you install a panhard bar on a triangulated 4 link, the two will fight each other. Generally that is not recommended. I built one truck in my time that had both. The reason was because the frame was so narrow that I couldn’t achieve a 30 degree or greater angle for the triangulated bars. This allowed too much side-to-side movement of the axle as the polyurethane in the bar ends deflected. So the panhard bar was essentially added as an afterthought. As for body roll, the panhard bar and the triangulated 4 link determine where the vehicles roll center is located, but they do NOT limit body roll. A sway bar is needed for that and would be required to minimize roll in either system. Hopefully I answered your question. Lemme know. If not I’ll try again.
@Ruger5_56
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab thank you yes you have answered my question now I just have to measure the pros and cons of managing body roll with a sway bar or a heavier spring rate
@WillMaynard3
Жыл бұрын
Do you need to have a pan hard bar or watts link with with a wishbone upper link setup?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
The wishbone itself is what keeps the axle centered under the bed with that setup. So there is no need for a panhard bar or any other lateral axle locator. In fact a panhard bar would only cause problems. That’s because a wishbone link moves the axle straight up and down and the panhard bar pushes the axle side to side on an arc. So the two systems would actually fight each other. Cheers!
@WillMaynard3
Жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Thank you for the quick response brother one more question is can I offset my the two top links to the right on top of me axel to get around my tank?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Anytime my man! Here’s the deal assuming you’re still talking about the wishbone. The roll center of the rear of this vehicle will be wherever the single bushing of the wishbone will be. (The roll center is the point on which the vehicle body will rotate around as the body rolls in a turn.) If that bushing is off center, your roll center will be off center. On a typical NON race street vehicle, this probably wouldn’t be much of an issue. When racing the vehicle would handle very different in right turns vs. left turns. You can still offset the wishbone itself though. You could have the entire assembly mounted on the opposite side of the gas tank and still mount the single bushing on top of the diff which would basically center your roll center. Not sure how much sense all this makes without illustrations. 🤷♂️
@jasoneverley8164
6 ай бұрын
Wouldn't the triangulation measurements be like rise and run on your homes roof except horizontal?
@natey2462
2 жыл бұрын
so the triangular link would be the best way to go for slamming a vehicle and airing it up to ride height?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Not necessarily. That’s often an opinion based on what the vehicle is used for. The triangulated 4 link is indeed a great option. It’s the simplest design and it’s a great choice if you’re short on space. It is a bit more challenging to set up properly so that it operates like a parallel 4 link. I personally prefer the parallel 4 link with a watts link. It’s easier to setup and more rigid under heavy cornering. Again, that’s an opinion.
@natey2462
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Thanks Just trying to get everything researched and adjusted for my build... 98 Chevy dually haha
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
That’s exciting! Can’t wait to see what you choose. I’m always available for questions. Best of luck.
@fiskusmati
3 жыл бұрын
Can you show how triangulated 4 link articulate and explain if it is possible to knock it off and make it so it won't articulate (it will, but a lot of force will go to twisting/bending links). Please, thanks.
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting question. Can I ask what this would be used for? One of the greatest traits of a triangulated 4 link IS its ability to articulate! Building a triangulated 4 link and then trying to make it NOT articulate seems strange. But because you asked, if I were paid to do what you mentioned, I suppose I would do a double wishbone type setup in which both the upper links and lower links are triangulated but the top would be a reverse of the rear. Meaning the upper links would come to a point in the front and the lowers would come to a point at the axle. (It would resemble a hexagram from above) But rather than being separated link bars, both triangles would need to be fully plated making each triangle a single non flexible unit. (Like an A) I think a much simpler design would just be a parallel 4 link with a very heavy sway bar. I’d love to hear what you plan to build that cannot roll side to side!
@fiskusmati
3 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Oh sorry you didn't understood me - I'm just building XJ, and I want it to articulate a lot. But I'm wondering if there is a possibility to make a mistake when calculating 4 link so it won't articulate (what to be aware of when building 4 link triangulated). Sorry english is my second language maybe that's why you didn't understand me. But your answer shows that it is rather hard to make 4 link not articulate - that is good to hear :D
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
My apologies! That changes things a lot! (Your English is just fine my friend.) If you want LOTS of Articulation, I’d still consider the double-triangle mentioned above but instead leave the bars separate. The only things that will get in the way are 1. The bar ends you choose. I’d highly recommend Heim Joints with misalignment spacers. Those are expensive but will give a LOT of movement. After that your movement will only be limited by the body of the truck, the truck frame or your spring/coil over setup.
@markjohnson28
3 жыл бұрын
I happen to like the titan wheels Thank You very much . No really Thank You very much 😂😉
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha! Whoops. Seriously tho, that offset. 😍
@liamjones6155
3 жыл бұрын
How do you know what size hymn joints you need
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately that’s not a question that’s easily answered here. There’s a lot more involved than just size. There are good brands and bad brands. There are different types that range from heavy duty use in suspension components to light duty stuff like steering shaft supports. There are also different grades just like bolts. And lastly… it depends on HOW they will be used, as in will they be in load-bearing link bars (the air spring or coil over is on the link bar) or non load-bearing link bars. Generally in my non-load bearing links I use FK brand 3-piece rod ends with 1” shafts and on load-bearing links I use the same but with 1-1/4” shafts on the end furthest away from the spring and polyurethane bushings on the end nearest the spring. If the heims are cheap, they’re NOT the right one for suspension applications. It’s common for them to be upwards of $75 a piece. I highly recommend doing some research and not just depending on my recommendations. There’s a LOT to learn. Good luck my friend.
@bryanbrunk1186
3 жыл бұрын
What about a triangulated 4-link with a watts link. The length of each piece of the watts link and the setup of it will make it go up and down perfectly in a straight line. Also the bushings in a 4link (any 4-link) will always allow some side to side travel.
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Definitely doable but seems kinda redundant. True that bushings will deflect causing some unwanted movement especially in a triangulated 4-link so if you’ve already got a triangulated 4-link and you plan to race on a road course adding a watts link could be a benefit. I think it would just be wiser to use Heim joints in the angled bars in the initial build.
@bryanbrunk1186
3 жыл бұрын
Delrin(?) Would cut down on deflection and heim(?) joints could eliminate deflection but ride quality would suffer compared to a watts link. Watts link is a great deal of work compared to a triangulated 4-link. But again, I think if it is set up correctly, it is far superior. Don't mind my spelling lol
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I agree more. A Watts link is indeed superior and this is the route I’ll be going on my Wife’s truck. Except it’ll be a parallel 4-link with a Watts link because again, I think a Watts with triangulated bars is redundant. If a Watts eliminates all sideways movement from cornering forces which it does, what would be the purpose of triangulated bars? (Aside from originality which is an acceptable reason)
@bryanbrunk1186
3 жыл бұрын
My whole reasoning is that I have a fox body mustang. And although I would like to switch to a an offset parallel 4-link (so i can bag it), it currently has a triangulated 4-link. ...and yes I do get well over an inch of deflection in corners. Energy suspension bushings.
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
That makes perfect sense! I have a 2001 Mustang which I believe is exactly the same. Absolutely terrible and a perfect candidate for A Watts link. I can’t wait to see it!
@adenlackey9361
Жыл бұрын
Okay, so I'm wanting to bag my 93 toyota pickup, if I were to use a triangular 4 link set up, will I still have to use shocks along with the bags, or would I just be running the bags?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Short answer: You always need shocks. Long answer: Some say you don’t need shocks. I disagree strongly! Some bags don’t bounce much, so it appears that shocks aren’t necessary. But shocks do a lot more than just prevent bounce. Even though the body of the car isn’t moving up and down, it’s a certainty that your wheels are hopping up and down on rough surfaces. This can at least cause strange tire wear, and poor handling at worst.
@adenlackey9361
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, I appreciate you actually trying to help me, I've looked into your channel and you seem very committed and I really like what you're putting out... but I've got one more question if you don't mind me asking, what bags do you suggest running?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
I use exclusively Slam Specialties. But I hear good things about Firestone and Dominator bags. I do NOT like metal banded bags like AirLift bags.
@adenlackey9361
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, I appreciate your help!!
@joseflores-vl2sc
3 жыл бұрын
What do you think about mono leaf(leaving a single flat bar of leaf spring ) for rear air bag suspension?
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I might need some clarification on that one, Jose. I’ve removed all but one leaf on several of my own trucks to get a very low static ride height. I’m all for that if you know the risks. 1. Leaf springs can only flex so much before they snap and removing the other springs makes that a likely possibility. I always added bump stops to prevent the springs from overextending. 2. Pinion angle can get weird the more the leaf springs bend so an angled block is sometimes needed to match the pinion angle to the trans. When you say for “airbag suspension” I get a little confused. Is your plan to add helper bags to the leafs to get lift? That’s not a terrible idea but the above issues still apply. The helpers will take some of the stress off the mono leaves but the changing pinion angle throughout travel will still be less than ideal. And if you’re talking about cutting the rear of the leaf springs off and using them as link bars… just no. There are ways you could make that setup structurally sound but in the end it’ll basically be a two link suspension which I am not a fan of on adjustable height vehicles. Two links are ok on static height vehicles only. Lemme know what your plans are. Maybe I can give better input when I’m not guessing. 😀
@joseflores-vl2sc
3 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab im trying to save some money in a 4link ,so my leaf springs will serve as “link bars” for a air suspension set up or do you recommend going for a 4 link?
@kjm4ryanna
3 жыл бұрын
Bad ass info and way awesome model
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Think I should give it away when I'm done building on it?
@kjm4ryanna
3 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab I think that would be pretty cool if you did but if you keep it I understand too. It is pretty bad ass I would have a hard time parting with it
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I used to be hoarder. But starting a business in a tiny shop has taught me to get rid of things that don't serve a purpose. Once these videos are done, the purpose will be gone.
@kjm4ryanna
3 жыл бұрын
I understand that well how do I get in the running to get into the giveaway LOL
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I don't know! I haven't come up with anything yet! 😄
@crautoguy8384
2 жыл бұрын
Toyota Timing belt idler bearings for the rear wheels awesome 3.4?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha! I’m impressed! 👏 I’ve got a bucket full of Toyota timing belt bearings that I use on everything that needs to roll. My bead roller stand, my welding table, etc etc etc. Perks of working on Yotas most of my life.
@crautoguy8384
2 жыл бұрын
Great minds think alikeI've been a Toyota Tech for 20 years I also have a bucket Of them Good stuff is good stuff
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha!! Excellent. 👏
@crautoguy8384
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab I never finished it but I started making a Flat stock Minnie circle Roller With 2 of those idlers and the tensioner Never decided whether to use a small hydraulic ram or just threaded rod For tension Bolted the 2 idlers with spacers And the tensioner bearing an arm or make new one to quarter inch plate with a 90゚ Bend to clamp in to bench Vice Food for thought Super easy Fun tinker Toy Need to finish it or you can take that idea Or anyone else all kinds of fun to be had with leftover repair shop Stuff I have way too much stuff Like that Hoarding Some would say good stuff is good stuff Cheers buddy
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
That’s brilliant! I very well may build one. I have a tubing roller but it’s awkward trying to roll small material. I’d think a big bolt should suffice for just about any small gauge metals. I too am a recovering hoarder. I’ve got so many projects planned that I simply couldn’t complete them all in one life time so I’m throwing things away more often. NOT my bucket of idlers tho. 😅
@stephen295
4 ай бұрын
Is it bad to get oil( wd40) on link bushings?
@GarageFab
4 ай бұрын
I’m sure some will disagree, but I don’t think a little WD40 would hurt bushings. Petroleum eats away at rubber and polyurethane but it generally takes a long time. WD contains petroleum but it evaporates relatively quickly. You’d have to give bushings a constant supply of WD to cause problems. But because of the quick evaporation, it’s not great for lubricating bushings either. So unless you’re just using it to install the bushings, there’s not much reason to use it in that for links anyway. 🤷♂️
@stephen295
4 ай бұрын
@GarageFab just used wd40 to coat raw steel bars ,but some got on bushings & bars will be stored with wd40 until installation begins .then I'll wash it off . Just a rust deterant.
@GarageFab
4 ай бұрын
@stephen295 Sounds totally fine to me. 👍
@AtomicOverdrive
Жыл бұрын
I hate pan hard bars and it bugs the heck out of me that it is used so much. If you ever been in a heavy car and it feels like the back of the car is tossing left to right when you go over bumps.. Its that stupid bar. Watts Link fixes that mess.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Truth! The problem with that heavy car is the crazy amount of suspension travel. My Impala is that way. A lighter vehicle with stiffer suspension would fair well with a panhard.
@AtomicOverdrive
Жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab My 82 TransAm I had when I was 15 wasnt to bad. Though that suspension was stiff and those cars were call Lead Sleads for a reason.. LOL..
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
😂
@birdboy68
3 жыл бұрын
I want to remove my leaf springs and put a triangulated 4 bar set up. Should I get a better ride with the 4 link? I have a 1947 ford business coupe which is pretty low. I will be using coil overs on all 4 corners. I have a mustang 2 front with ride tech coil overs in front and leafs now.. My ride in the rear is to bouncy. Thank you
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Removing the leaf springs is a good start to reduce bounce. Ride quality gets a bit complicated. The link bars themselves won’t determine how bouncy your ride will be. It’s a balance between your spring rate (how stiff your springs are) the weight of the vehicle and the firmness of your shocks. I’m afraid I can’t help much in determining what spring rate you need. The best I can do is tell you if you mount your coil coilovers to the axle and it’s too stiff you can move them forward onto the link bars to soften things up. The further forward toward the front front link pivots you go the softer (and less responsive) the ride will be. Good luck Brother! I’m excited to see it!
@birdboy68
3 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Thank you Very much for you quick response. Your video was the most informative I have seen yet!! Awesome job!!
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Derek. Anytime!
@robertcapito2040
2 жыл бұрын
I have a question. I have a Ram 1500 with 5 point rear suspension, if the control arm bushings are not worn out can I figure that the panhard bar or ride height difference(broken or weak spring on one side) could be causing over spec thrust angle?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
A left and right height difference on that style suspension can absolutely cause thrust angle issues! Unfortunately, Robert, I can’t say how much. Have you already confirmed a height difference? The panhard bar is not likely at fault. There’s a thing called “roll-steer” in link suspensions that’s created when the body shifts to the side. What happens (usually in a turn) because one side is lower than the other is the left bars are at a different angle than the right. For example the left bars might be parallel to the ground and the right bars angled slightly. This will cause the right side wheel to pull forward slightly, and since it’s a solid axle, the rear is essentially steering to the left. Also make sure none of the links are bent. It doesn’t take much to affect alignment. Hope this helps! Lemme know!
@robertcapito2040
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab there is a 1/4" difference. Thrust angle=.33 total toe .43. Left side is lower.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
It would be hard to believe 1/4 could make much of a difference. Is it a factory height vehicle? Or lifted/lowered? I’m concerned about your toe. Maybe I misunderstood. Total toe on a solid axle should be zero. Unless the axle is bent. Theoretically, both sides should be off an equal amount but opposite giving a total toe of zero.
@robertcapito2040
2 жыл бұрын
@Garage Fab that is total toe. LR=.54 RR= -.11 they are different and both turned to the right. Total toe= .43. This truck is making me scratch my head. All control are bushings look good, arms are not bent. Going to look at panhard bushings and rod tomorrow. Weird camber reading as well..LR= -.40 RR= -.25 preferred is -.10 rear toe Preferences is .15
@robertcapito2040
2 жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab standard ride height
@diablocustomschoker2058
2 жыл бұрын
Tankyou #garagefab for the información Your fiend #diablocustomschoker ✌️ O star to buyl a clasic Mustang 69 and i need the información to your vídeo👍 o preciated tankyou very much
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Anytime my man! Happy to be of service. 🍻
@Алексеймеханик-о2к
Жыл бұрын
Аарон привет, я всё твои ролики смотрю и вроде бы всё понимаю но есть куча мелких вопросов, ты не против если я их буду задавать?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Абсолютно, Алекс. Спрашивай.
@bryanb5413
Жыл бұрын
How do you only have 26.1K subs? RIGHT? This information is so accurate and understandable all while being articulated very well. Thanks for sharing!
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Bryan! 🙏 Very much appreciated. The subs are comin! Magic is happening. Garage Fab was at 23,000 less than 3 weeks ago. 😳 A little patience and a bunch of hard work and we’ll be doing just fine.
@flyonbyya
Жыл бұрын
@@GarageFab Sub count is not important… The effort combined with your clear desire, energy and talent to teach & demonstrate are what is ! Remarkable !
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Thank you my friend! I’m not OVERLY concerned with the numbers, however, that flashy sub count is one of the few metrics that shows that people are interested and want more. It makes all the work seem like it hasn’t been wasted. Thank you again! You’re appreciation is appreciated! ❤️
@Brhennes
Жыл бұрын
Really great video! I have a question about the triangulated 4 link. Does the angle of the bushing on the triangulated link bars affect anything? For example, sometimes the bushings are parallel to the axle (so the bolt going through the bushing would be parallel to the axle) and where the link bar meets the bushing there is an angle. Sometimes I see setups where the bushings are perpenducular to the link bar (so the bolt going through the bushing is perpendicular to the bar) and the bushing is at an angle compared to the axle. Not sure if that makes sense or not. But I was wondering if there is a difference between these setups?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Hey Brad! It absolutely makes sense. You worded it perfectly. Also this is a topic I am constantly debating with people! First let’s start with the fact that polyurethane bushing material doesn’t like excessive deflection.(compression, stretching, twisting, etc.) Too much and they split, or smash and don’t rebound, or they get soft. Poly bushings are intended to rotate around the bolt like a hinge. When you mount angled bar bushings so that they are parallel to the axle, the bushings will rotate around the axis’ that pass through the bolts as the suspension cycles. When you mount them perpendicular to the bars, these axis’ don’t change, but because the bushings are angled the axis’ pass diagonally through the bushings. As the suspension cycles on this style, the bushings are seeing unnatural deflection. In essence, the bushings are being pulled to the side. This is acceptable on static height suspension vehicles. If setup properly, the bushings will be at rest at half travel. Poly bushings will last longest of they’re pushed and pulled on straight. (The way they would be if the bars were straight.) So this is the ideal setup for static height triangulated 4 links. Bushings perpendicular to the bars. Here’s where my opinion comes in. When you slap air suspension on something you now have double or triple the amount of suspension travel, upwards of 12 inches. Even when set up properly, (bushings at rest at half travel) this is pushing the poly bushings sideways far beyond their intended deflection. By mounting the bushings to the angled bars so that they are parallel to the axle, their movement is natural except when the body is leaning. This is how I believe a bagged/juice triangulated 4 link should be set up, and so this is how I build them. Just know that this design will cause much more force on the flanges of the bushings as the weight of the vehicle shifts to the side on turns. Bushings are not designed for this either, however from my experience they last much longer than their over-deflected cousins. This was long winded. Hope it made sense. If you need clarification, lemme know. Cheers!
@chriscoulthard4947
Жыл бұрын
Is this why you are moving away from the 4 link design that is on the truck from the previous owner?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
I’m so proud right now, Chris. 😃 That is the exact reason I switched. I could have just changed the upper bushings to suit my preferences but I wanted more content for the channel. Another reason I felt a switch was needed was the original builder made the upper links adjustable (threaded) but didn’t install any Heim joints. This caused the bushings to continually loosen the jam nut.
@tunnelmot
3 жыл бұрын
Love the tech, illustrations and editing. Keep it coming!
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I just wanna weld something! Thank you!
@GarageGeek
Жыл бұрын
I am an offroader that usually watches jeep related channels. Yet you provided the best explanation of a triangulated four-link that I have ever seen. Thank you!
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, my friend! These videos were intended for fellow Mini Truckers, but it’s been really cool to hear that people from other scenes are getting value from them. Very much appreciated. 🙏
@RecklessRegal
3 жыл бұрын
DUDE! That scale model is a GREAT idea to demonstrate how each of these types of suspension work. One that I didn't see mentioned is the parallel 4 link with a wishbone (what I'm running in the Buick). It's a combination of the parallel 4 link which gives you more adjustability for traction and the triangulated 4 link which centers the housing in the vehicle. None the less, this is a great explination.
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I can't say I've seen a wishbone used WITH a parallel 4 link before I saw yours. It seems to be pretty common in the drag racing scene tho. I've seen a lot of folks use a wishbone AS the upper bars. Pretty much the triangulated 4 link but with a single Heim at the point. How does adding a wishbone to a parallel 4 link affect body roll? A lot of Mini Truckers like to have side to side adjustability. I can't imagine that's something you want flying down the drag strip. Thank you, Brother!
@sabadabigarage1595
Жыл бұрын
Can you do a video on triangular 4 link suspension. Similar to the watt link video in your channel. Have a kp60 Toyota starlet and currently doing a diff swap and need to weld on the tabs. The axis are not in line Please and thanks in advance.
@ashleyhall-hemsath485
2 жыл бұрын
I'm fairly dense without visually seeing so the fact that you took the time to create the model is awesome very clear and easy to understand and follow along.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for that, Ashley! It’s good to hear it wasn’t wasted time. I’ve been considering creating a similar model when we get to front suspension but it’ll be so much more complex and challenging to build. But if it helps, I guess it must be done! You are appreciated! 🍻
@treborheminway3814
Жыл бұрын
Really great overview. I watch a few off road fabrication channels, and they usually don't get anywhere near in-depth as you on this stuff. See lots of panhard bars too! (I'm surprised how many given these vehicles have a fair bit of travel.) One common upgrade to the high end builds is a triangulated 4 link. Now I understand why. I always thought it was just for more travel.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Yep! The triangulated 4 link is a superior set up! It works great on everything and it’s really quite simple. The only reason I don’t often use it is it’s really quite simple! 😂
@overdrive39
3 жыл бұрын
The name "panhard" is pronounced Panard the h is silent just sayin. It was invented by a French automobile company in the early 20th century. Just my two cents worth. 😁
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Haha! Thank you. I believe you 100% and I’m excited to do some research on the history. I’ve heard it pronounced panyerd once, but I think I’m going to have to stick with the pronunciation I’ve always heard.
@thomasjohannesen1003
3 жыл бұрын
This was insanely informative. I'm a freshman mechanical engineering student and this reminded me why I'm interested in the first place. Thank you!
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
That’s awesome! I have zero official education. (Building education anyway. 😂) I’m just a Tinkerer so I envy you. Good luck and thank you back!
@overlandready
8 ай бұрын
to effect a longer arm for most suspensions shunt the top section back, it has the efect of a longer top bar for most usual suspension travels, it does however place the pinion nose in an S formation of travel. Also for a more sturdy "triangulated 4 bar", just create a solid A frame and so the axle has a single pivot point (whether a ball or rose joint it makes no odds). In all cases the suspension will travel in a curve, it's physics of tying one end to a fixed point, because on a Watt's link there are 2 tied ends the curve is different above the medium and below it, so you will get a S shaped travel, it might not be very pronounced but it's goin to be there. It's good that you highlighted this but only effects in extreme upper and lower positions. The longer the centre pivot bar the more pronounced the S will be. All suspension setups have disadvantages, it's finding the one you can live with it's disadvantages or the disadvantages don't come into play on your amount of travel.
@CoriRdTempos
2 жыл бұрын
Very well explained your video I will make it in my c10 In this way thanks for making a thumbnail I am Brazilian I don't speak English But I managed to understand well
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Obrigado meu amigo!! Espero que os vídeos ajudem. Mal posso esperar para ver o que você fará com seu C10! O C10 nos United States parece muito diferente. Gosto muito da sua versão. 🙌 Boa sorte!!
@peterassel562
3 жыл бұрын
Just recalling my time on fabricating suspensions, my strong preference was always to reverse the shown watts link so the centre pivot is on the chassis and ends on the axle. Since the effective roll centre in a watts link suspension is the pivot point of the bell crank, this keeps roll centre consistent with the body and you can also make roll centre adjustable either by using multi-hole bracket or setting up with a cable/adjuster so it can be adjusted from cabin or in pit stops. In the example shown, roll centre changes during axle movement. As for panhard rods, these should be an absolute last resort - truly terrible.
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
I like that idea! It took me way too long to picture in my head. I might have to give that a go on my miniature truck model. I’ll agree with you on the Panhard bar. At least on adjustable suspensions. I don’t mind the panhard so much on static height vehicles. Thanks for Sharing, Peter!
@aterack833
2 жыл бұрын
I was considering a split bearing around the axle housing snout and having a front mounted watts link but what you’re saying may also work the same way to prevent crowding of the cover area. I’m just having a hard time picturing it based on your description, is there a single link bar and one watts type link per side or two link bars and one watts link per side? If it’s just the one does it only include the top half or both?
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I have also pondered how to make a Watts link clear a drive shaft for front mounting. The best I came up with is a dual propeller setup with 4 link bars. That one is a little too complex to explain in writing. As for Peter’s reverse design; My Watts propeller is mounted to the axle and the link bars to each frame rail… His would look identical but the propeller would instead be connected perhaps to the center of a crossmember behind the axle and the bars would be connected to each side of the axle. Hopefully that made some sense.
@zjww45
8 ай бұрын
Don't forget a 4-link with a wishbone locator. That's what I run.
@pamdunn8454
8 ай бұрын
with a triangulated "four link" do the top links have to meet together ? and in your example the links meet together at the diff center , can it be opposite that the links are far apart on the diff and meet on the shopping cart handle inboard "but not together ? narrowed rear say: 30 inch diff and 20 inch at mount point ?
@GarageFab
8 ай бұрын
You basically described the Ford Mustang. The angled bars do not need to meet. (or even be close) What matters more is the angle of the bars. The closer the bars get to parallel with the frame, the less stable the axle will become left-to-right. I often recommend positioning the bars at no less than 30° from the frame rails, unless you plan to use stiff bushings and/or a panhard bar/watts link. The triangle can also be reversed as you mentioned with the front bushings closer together. Most people won’t notice any change in handling but professional drivers might. The imaginary place where the angled bars would intersect is the roll center for the rear suspension. (The point that the chassis rotates as the body leans in turns.) By putting this point further forward you’re changing the roll axis of the vehicle. If you would like that to make more sense, I highly suggest researching “roll center” and “roll axis”, but as mentioned, the average driver wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
@pamdunn8454
8 ай бұрын
wow , you are blissed with incredible knowledge - amazing that you take the time to answer with such complete information "hats off" or sharing , thank you
@GarageFab
8 ай бұрын
My pleasure my friend. I’m happy to be of service.
@ElevenTenthsKRacing
2 жыл бұрын
EXCEPTIONAL! JUST WHAT I WAS WANTING TO LEARN!!! I first found you when a client shared a video of the headboard you did where you used the black magic patina. They wanted me to use the same product on some table bases I was welding up for some wood tops they were building. Glad to see you again! Great content, editing, video/sound quality, all the things!!!
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the kind words, my friend! How did the table bases turn out? Glad you found the channel and I look forward to seeing you in the next one. 🙌 Cheers!
@9greatdanes981
6 ай бұрын
I understand what you’re saying..:: leaf springs
@Amrgheith2
Жыл бұрын
Sir I learned a lot. Thanks. My car is Land Cruiser 100 GX trim without AHC. I lifted only 2 inch, my car front tyres are screaming when I turn. The wheels are aligned. This only happens when I am turning. What could be the problem?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Hard to tell without seeing it for myself, but lifting it may have affected the Ackerman. The Ackerman principle refers to a design that causes the wheel on the inside of a curve to turn slightly sharper than the outside wheel. This is important because the inside wheel follows a smaller circle than the outside wheel. There’s a possibility that the lift is affecting this, essentially taking your front wheels out of alignment only while turning.
@rashlaninburhan
Жыл бұрын
I'm building front semi triangulated 4 link on my build, my question is do i need track bar with hydraulic power steering.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
I need some clarification on this one, Burhan. What do you mean by “Semi triangulated” I can tell you that if your angled bars are NOT at least 30°from your frame rails, a tack bar/panhard bar might be a good idea. Unless I misunderstand, steering setup will have nothing to do with your suspension.
@brandoncarter5464
2 жыл бұрын
My 2014 Ram 2500 crew cab tradesman has the 5-link rear suspension (coils no factory air) & is riding rough on all bumps, it’s violent. Sounds like metal on metal like it’s bottoming out but it’s the same as when I had cofop shocks now with Bilstien 5100 it’s making the same noise. Leveled 2 1/2” & on 35” tires where should I look for potential suspension problems? Feels like it’s in the rear suspension
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure how much help I can be without putting eyes and hands on it, Brandon! Has it always had this issue or did it develop over time? The only things that should affect ride quality are the springs or the shocks. A rough ride then would be springs are shocks that are too stiff. Noises can come from anywhere. Shocks (Which in theory you’ve already eliminated) shock bushings, spring perches, Link Bar bushings, bed mounts, spare tire, fuel tank mounts, even a cracking frame. (I’ve seen it) I’d suggest starting in a parking lot with speed bumps and see if you can verify for certain that you’re dealing with either the front or the rear. Another potentially easy check would be pull the shocks out while the truck is on the ground. (Shocks generally keep the axle from drooping too much and allowing the springs to pop out) It would be crazy bouncy and unsafe to drive on the road but it may help you determine if your issue is shock related or not. Lemme know what you find!
@routefortysix
Жыл бұрын
Very well explained... I really appreciate the way you explain.. Thank you..
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Thank you my man!
@frankpiazza953
Жыл бұрын
Great instructional videos. Well done, but I have questionS; I’m restoring a ‘53 International Harvester panel truck which we discussed in the past and I'm considering
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Sorry, Frank. You’re breaking up…
@cliffcampbell8827
Жыл бұрын
I've got those same link bars! I'm building a 1/10 6x6 SCX 10 (I or II, I'm not sure which one yet, I've got parts for both).
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
I’m a lil jelly. I’ve been wanting to build one for some time!
@superiorfleetsolutions3967
23 күн бұрын
You are an Einstein as far as explaining complicated subjects in a simple way
@GarageFab
22 күн бұрын
Thank you for the kind words! Certainly not Einstein. Very thick headed actually. I try to explain things in a way that I could understand. 😆
@jamesmulanax1424
Жыл бұрын
Question: Using the triangulated 4-bar link setup, can you attach the angled links away from the rearend? (Pretend you don't have a driveline)
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Short answer: Yes. More confusing answer: With or without a driveline, you can absolutely reverse the triangle. Here’s the catch; The point at which the angled linkbar’s meet is the “Roll Center” for the rear suspension. This is the imaginary point that the chassis and body of a vehicle rotates around the rear suspension as the body rolls side to side while turning. (I recommend reading a little bit about Roll Center) By reversing the triangle so that the link bars meet at the front, the roll center is then further forward, which changes the “Roll Axis” (This is the axis around which the entire vehicle rotates and is determined by the locations of the front and rear roll centers. All this nonsense changes handling a little, but for most people (non race car drivers) they wouldn’t be able to tell a difference between the two triangle orientations.
@bearcoatcustoms3619
3 жыл бұрын
Don’t know how I stumbled across your channel but happy I’m here and a new subscriber!
@GarageFab
3 жыл бұрын
Yes! Thank you. I’ll be following you as well. I’ve been wanting to learn about powder coating for a while now.
@hunting4177
Жыл бұрын
I need to bend the brains of the knowledgeable peeps on here. Im trying to bag or air shock a golf cart with 24" wheels but im stuck..... i can't figure out what I want \ should do. I can't put pictures on here but have some to share if anyone is willing to help
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Send over those photos to either Instagram @GarageFab or email to GarageFab702@gmail.com. I’d be happy to help where I can.
@TheJoedaddy831
Жыл бұрын
Excellent! I think. Your little model set up in the last configuration i believe is what i am looking for. I have a 2016 yukon that i am going to lift. I want to keep the bottom links straight and possibly longer if needed. The uppers i want to triangulate. Do away with the panhard bar. Thank you sir
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Nice! Best of luck my friend. Lemme know how it works for you!
@onespeedworld6979
11 ай бұрын
Great video, excellent display models! Thanks for sharing and posting!
@GarageFab
11 ай бұрын
Thank you, my friend. 🙏
@CheeHooGarage
Ай бұрын
speaking of the triangulated 4 link that came on your mighty max, the upper axis' aren't on the same plane. Does it still work like a parallel 4 link? You kind of mentioned the position of bushings at the end of the link bars at 10:11
@GarageFab
Ай бұрын
The angle of the bushings does not affect how the triangulated 4 link operates overall. The old version, though I disagreed with the design, still had proper geometry and therefore operated just like a parallel 4 link. This was achieved by ensuring that the distance between the front and rear axis’ of the angled upper bars was the same as the length of the lower bars. The “problem” with angling the bushings is that the axis the bars are forced to rotate around doesn’t change, so the axis is now passing through the bushings diagonally. (Problem is in parentheses, because it is my opinion) This is completely fine on static height (non adjustable) suspensions. It’s been done for decades without problem. I feel it’s a terrible idea on vehicles with lots of trave The bushings are tweaked so badly at the extremes of travel and even worse if the bushings aren’t designed to be at rest at half travel. This has made me realize this should be a video. I’m gonna start working on that immediately! Cheers!
@CheeHooGarage
Ай бұрын
@@GarageFab Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I was thinking per your suspension basics series but wasn't 100% sure. So if the upper bushings were on the same plane as the lowers, no binding! I've been waiting on the follow up vid for 3 years lol. Keep doing what you're doing man, almost gonna get that 100k plaque 🤙
@GarageFab
Ай бұрын
Still growing daily, but things certainly pick up when I post more often. 😉 Thanks for being one of the regulars my friend!
@Manga-Mazda
Жыл бұрын
I want to keep my gas tank in the factory location, so I was considering a reverse triangulated 4-link. Any reason not to go this route? Any advice, tips, or tricks? It’s my first build, first time installing airbags ect.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Definitely NOT a reverse 4 link. I’ll be creating a video just on the horrors of the reverse link setup. Summarized; poor traction, and even worse braking. If you absolutely must leave the fuel tank, (it’s not as difficult to relocate as it seems) I’d recommend a 3 link with a panhard bar. This will leave a lot of room in the back for air management. Lemme know if you need guidance as you go!
@immanutt4442
Жыл бұрын
Aaron ... another brainstorm I have for Tee shirt is the black truck at begining of your tutorials with the MANKANDY GARAGE swag ... ?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely. I’ll work on the art.
@rexhavoc2982
Жыл бұрын
So far you have made it simple to understand, What I want to see is left right wheel travel as in off road or even un even ground conditions. How far can your desk top model left tire lift and not twist the frame using a 4 bar set up? Most 4 bar set ups are for drag strips and level roads. Lets try for a 10 inch wheel travel design. Thanks.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Rex! One of the most common link bar set ups for off-road (especially rock crawlers) is the Triangulated 4 link, or even the Double Triangulated 4 link. Two main things that prevent articulation is the bar ends and the chassis/body. If you use Heim joints with misalignment spacers on the bar ends, you can get a crazy amount of articulation. So much that the tires would hit the fenders, and without fenders the axle would hit the frame. This is the problem with my model. The 4 bar setup would allow lots of articulation, but the frame would get in the way of the bars full capability. Another thing that limits articulation is the lateral axle locating mechanism. (Panhard bar or watts link) this is what makes the Triangulated bar set up so good. No lateral axle locating system is needed. You can find images on the Internet of rock crawlers with the rear axle 90° from the front axle. So crazy!
@williamhelus3522
2 жыл бұрын
What about the NASCAR style truck arm suspension, firebird 3 link. BullyBilly.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
These videos were created for Mini truckers and builders of adjustable suspension. Then KZitem distributed them to EVERYONE!!! Definitely an unexpected blessing. The NASCAR two link is a great system. No doubt about it. But it’s absolute garbage when installed on a vehicle that can adjust it’s ride height between 0 and 12 inches. It causes the pinion angle to vary so extremely that it destroys the driveshaft Ujoints. It’s a similar thing with the Torque arm suspension. It dominates at the drag strip, but again, install it on a bagged vehicle and suddenly there’s problems!
@andyconde8189
2 жыл бұрын
I have a 2 link setup on my 2000 s10...The link bars I'm using replaced the leaf springs.. can I still make it a trianglated 4 link..
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Using your existing 2 link? I’d have to see it to be sure, but it could be as simple as adding rod ends to the ends of your two link and adding the triangulated bars. So short answer, yes… likely.
@drtb69
2 жыл бұрын
Jim Fays Watts Links are awesome just sayin'. Watrs link is best for solid axle ,old tech... I prefer irs now :))))
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Old tech indeed! But I’m hearing of a lot of Autocross people going back to solid axle because of IRS’ slow response in transmitting weight to the rear tires when accelerating out of corners. Even knowing that, the next truck project will have independent rear. 👍
@kraagnjilwulf1413
2 жыл бұрын
On the watts suspension, if you mount it so the natural ride height of the vehicle has the link bars parallel and the centre piece that is attached to the axle the equal to the vertical distance between the place where the links mount to the chassis, shouldn't that illiminate the S-shaped movement? By my figuring, if setup this way, it should create perfectly (or as perfect as you can get with tolerances and stress added) straight up and down movement. I'm gonna go build a model so I can test this, it seems like it should work perfectly.
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
You are correct. It sounds like you are describing a static height vehicle. So in that application the small amount of suspension travel isn’t enough to push the Watts link to the point where it develops the S shape. But on vehicles with adjustable height suspension with significant travel, it’s impossible to completely eliminate the very mild S, but setting it up as you mentioned will give you the best results.
@petedude2lu3
Жыл бұрын
so this parallel linkbar setup constrains the axle so the wheels cant independently travel. On an uneven road all that travel must be taken up by the front axle...
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Definitely not true. There is nothing in any of these designs that limits articulation (independent motion) except the choice of bar ends. For example, Heim joints move much further and more freely than a polyurethane bushing, however all bushings allow body roll. It’s up to the builder to choose what bushing type that best fits the intended purpose of the vehicle.
@killerwollf
2 жыл бұрын
hello I want to make my 4link and I don't understand the pinion angle, how do I adjust this angle? could you make a video explaining exactly how to configure these angles in a 4link, thanks your videos are nice
@GarageFab
2 жыл бұрын
Working on that video right this second, Fabiano! It’ll be a few more weeks because I’m taking my time to get it right. I’m excited for it. Until then, I’ll leave you with this… If you’re running a drive shaft with two I joints, your pinion angle should match your engine crank shaft/transmission shaft angle. If you’re running a Double Cardan joint at the front of your drive shaft, your pinion and drive shaft should be straight at half travel. The next video will go into detail and explain why. Cheers!
@mattypontheroad
Жыл бұрын
@11:29 @Garage Fab, are you still trying to answer every last question?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
It’s shifted to answering as many as I can, which is most, but yes!
@mattypontheroad
Жыл бұрын
Outstanding answer, test passed. Your channel is great!
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
@@mattypontheroad lol. Thank you!
@rheld7795
Жыл бұрын
Laying out rear suspension for an f100. All around daily use. How do i figure out how long my lower arms need to be?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
On bagged stuff, I typically build mine as long as I can. That’s usually placing the front bar bushings right behind the cab. The longer the bars, the less the axle will pull forward as the suspension goes up and down. Here’s a useful nugget of info. The amount the slip yoke in a driveshaft slides is determined by the difference in length between the driveshaft and the link bars. So in theory, if the driveshaft was the exact same length as the link bars, the slip yoke wouldn’t move. 🤔 That said, trying to get your link bars as long as close as possible to the driveshaft length would be ideal for adjustable height suspension.
@grantborman1203
Жыл бұрын
Do u have any vids on lowered trucks I have 2021 f150 with massive vibrations in drive line
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Have you seen this one yet? Suspension Basics 06: A Better U Joint Driveshaft Video kzitem.info/news/bejne/up2EwJp_i19pgZw It’s a good start. We can go from there.
@RoadsterLoverMedia
Жыл бұрын
I'm running through the basics play list and hope you address why you chose what you did over what was already in the truck.
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
I’d love to explain. What specifically are you referring to?
@criscoxcris_190_malnur6
Жыл бұрын
I bought a bagged C10 that has a triangulated 4 link, so would a watts link or panhard bar be needed or am I good to go?
@GarageFab
Жыл бұрын
Your current setup should be just fine as it is, Cris. Generally the angled bars in a triangulated 4 link are all that’s needed to keep the axle centered under the bed. In fact a panhard bar would only cause problems. That’s because a triangulated 4 link moves the axle straight up and down and the panhard bar pushes the axle side to side on an arc. So the two systems would actually be fighting each other. On rare occasions, if the angled bars in the triangulated 4 link aren’t angled enough (30° or more from the frame rails) there might be a little more sideways axle movement than there should be. In that case you might want to consider a watts link. (Another system that moves nearly straight up and down.) If you can make hard turns while your rear tires are tucked inside the fenders without rubbing, your 4 link is probably just fine. Cheers!
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