Tried to cut down on the rambling and hit all points. Would advise to watch the whole video if this topic interest you as I tried to go over everything. Would be cool if I could one day talk with GGG about this topic. Also down to talk with any other content creator about this topic. One thing I didn't point out more but you really weaken your char by wearing MF gear, to the point that it's only ever really worth to MF if you have a multi-mirror build or you're doing an extremely high investment strategy (like any curation scarab strat).
@ElZacada
3 ай бұрын
no single word about party MF and also streamers forced MF, 2 years ago MF wasn't a thing for massive playerbase
@lukasbrauneruv
3 ай бұрын
@@ElZacadaye thats what im saying
@bpusef
3 ай бұрын
@@ElZacada He mentioned that MF solo wasn't a thing because the game was too hard to solo T16 with quant gear.
@TrupsGaming
3 ай бұрын
@@ElZacada If you're referring to streaming groups like Empyrean: the amount of time, planning, coordination and flat out insane amounts of playtime alone are the most extreme factors in these groups making currency in the first week of a league. They not only run a full group with meticulously planned out builds, but they also split their loot with several traders. At the end of the week, the amount of currency that they make individually isn't as impressive as you might think compared to someone who could play as efficiently solo. They MF in groups because they enjoy it. Everything Fubgun explains in the video still applies in this context. In my opinion, the amount of uniques that they flood into the market in the first few days ends up making some build enablers affordable, which is a large benefit to more casual players. Also, nobody is "forcing" you to play MF. The competitive nature of the economy will always exist, but you can set your own goals and play the game however you want. Removing MF from the game will only cause a linear character progression that caps out much earlier like Fubgun suggests. It's simply a way to scale difficulty and rewards.
@ElZacada
3 ай бұрын
@bpusef ye I agree but still, streamers forced mf hard last 2 years. Difference between solo mf and fast dps build not that high meanwhile solo players vs party players are disgusting
@popoga8029
3 ай бұрын
MF Propaganda, dont believe him guys. Its like alcoholic defending alcohol
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
based
@thatguywastakenagain
3 ай бұрын
The ROI is actually not only quite substantial, but the main reason why people dont like MF. If the most luctrative strategies (div/h) is being enhance by MF, the prices to do said strategy will be balancing around MF which in turn reduces the ROI of non-MFers drastically up until the point of being not-sustainable. This induces a bunch of bad emotions (FOMO, feeling left out/gatekeeped etc), hence your observation of people hating MF for the sake of hating it.
@2_Stepper
3 ай бұрын
this
@Lucia-qc5wq
3 ай бұрын
yeap dunno why he never address this, every lucrative strat would always priced around MF player aslong as MF exist, if u do that without MF ? yeah good luck to even break even
@2_Stepper
3 ай бұрын
@@Lucia-qc5wq you will mostly break even. But making profit outside of lucky drops is not happening
@kangaroosmlb
3 ай бұрын
He covered this in the video. People will find the next most efficient build (faster clearing, more AoE etc just like bow assassin bv for 5deli back in the old days) regardless of whether mf exist or not. So the MF per se is irrelevant to your point.
@kangaroosmlb
3 ай бұрын
Plus it’s precisely how the capitalism works? Goods will be provided at a cheaper price if they can be produced more efficiently; if the material used to produce goods are limited and scarce, the cost will go up until manufacturers go breakeven (and they will increase the price then). Welcome to the world.
@a.t.s.5585
3 ай бұрын
Whilst I get your point, the problem with MF is that it inflates the cost of the farming method. If you can get 30% more loot, you can also spend 30% more on the farming method and still make a formidable profit compared to a player that doesn't do MF. You even said it yourself in your other video (the 10d/map T16 div card farming, starting somewhere at around 5:50 IIRC): You juice 20 div/map and still only make 7-10 div/map. That means 30 div per map from, drops, or 7-9 div purely from MF. So this strategy suddenly is really bad, going close to break/even in the long run. The extreme is groupplay with a MF culler like Empy does. They can afford to push prices even further as the investment is much smaller compared to the reward from group play bonus and MFing. That begs the question: Is it desirable that MF pushes the prices of MF-able strategies to a point where it isn't viable to do them as a normal person?
@pluto7562
3 ай бұрын
You are not a 'normal' person if you have time to play PoE. Just stop with your bs or get a job
@2_Stepper
3 ай бұрын
exaaaaactly
@josha3312
3 ай бұрын
I’d much rather have to push player power to get more loot from insanely hard content than to reduce player power to get more loot from easier content. I realize most MFing these days happens in the hardest content possible, this might be a problem. The main problem with MF, is that since it exists, GGG has to balance base quant and rarity against it. If MF was gone, GGG could put more quant tied to league mechanics, which would reward powerful characters for running content with multiplicative bonuses. Since MF exists, GGG can’t put more Q/R into maps, which means anyone not running MF is getting shafted.
@xlorida
3 ай бұрын
MF isn't solely responsible for a league dropping a lot of stuff, as you said it enhances it. It's just that also, it skews the profit margins of whatever it touches, so much so that it prices out people running the same strats without MF. That is bad. There's also no downsides. Literally nothing. The fact that we can slap on HH and do T17s on a deadeye zoomer with MF gear on, is a testament on how the negatives of MF gear are not enough. There is no decision to make. It's always, MF is the most optimal build. That's bad for the game. Either introduce massive downsides, so that it makes MF chars UNABLE to do max dif content or just remove it, because in the current state you are trolling if you are not MFing. And also, people hate on sanctum, rightfully so, for how easy it is to print currency. Every streamer I was watching during leaguestart, took a dig at sanctum. The fact that ppl mainly talk about MF being problematic a) they are right b) MF has been a problem way longer than sanctum has.
@markusshoggu
3 ай бұрын
Those builds that people see doing mf on crazy difficulty cost multiple mirrors. I think it's okay for this game to have such powerful mf builds if people grind hard for it and spend multiple mirrors. Also the mf farm strategies require a lot of investment. As I said I think it's okay to give the players such high rewards if they invest a lot of time
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Saying there is no downside is just completely wrong, how is removing 80% of your chars dps and all defense "no downside". There is a reason why such a few people can do t17 mf in the first place. Also MF is not always the most "optimal build" because the majority of farms in the game do Not benefit from player quant. Usually it's just div card farms, but this league also introduced scarab farms for MF. Once again, it's not MFs fault you can remove the vast majority of your character power and still able to do t17. Thats a design fault, of course making the game harder would make too many people complain, but theres a reason why t16 MF wasn't even a thing years and years ago, the game has gotten easier over the years through power creep.
@xlorida
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun Yeah that's the thing. Game is way too easier, to the point that my tri-ele ele hit, without mirror bow or mirror quiver (6x t1 graveyard crafts) with HH and goldwyrms, ventor, greed, can pull 30 mil dps and do T17s with enough HH stacks to phase the boss in the end. A lot of ppl complain about T17s though and it's a new thing that's most likely getting itterated on next league so let's say it's a grey area. What about MF in T16s for the past 1-1.5 or so year? Was there any real opportunity cost there or you were trolling if you played deadeye TS without MF? Wasn't that a problem? And I would say it's the same problem as being able to make a 400% ms character, investing everything in zoom + dps and still T16s felt like white mobs in campaign in terms of difficutly / threat to the player (lightning warp TS memes kekw). Both are a problem. I get the min max thing for top end players and I wouldn't have a single problem with it, if it didn't price out non-MF builds by such a wide margin. You said you would have made 6 mirrors without MF for example. Compared to 10 mirrors it's a 50% increase, it's huge. If MF is not viable for T17s because of power lvl moving forward and they stay at the same div / h lvl, I wouldn't have a problem because that's the drawback MF is supposed to have. Not slap on 3 items day 4 of the league and suddenly make 40% more currency than everybody else.
@inubi2155
3 ай бұрын
It's also important to add that doing sanctum quickly in day 1-3 is really difficult for most players. I've been farming my MB week 1 for 3 leagues in a row with sanctums so it's pretty easy for me because I know every single layout, mob, boon and affliction. But I've had a couple of friends try sanctum with 30-40div budget and they still either failed or took 30mins to do one run. When it comes to MF anyone can do it to be honest. Ofc you're squishy and you have to dodge more things but it's the same thing with many non-mf builds.
@austinyun
3 ай бұрын
@@xloridagoing from 6 to 10 mirrors is actually a SIXTY SIX percent increase.
@c-tothefourth4879
3 ай бұрын
For me the benefits of MF can be summed up as 2 points 1. Better ROI on map investment. You get more loot per unit investment but also have to buy scarabs less which improves ROI by saving time. 2. When you hit a wall where other stats would provide no tangible benefit to clear speed, MF can improve your time efficiency and give you a nice character gearing puzzle to solve.
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Yep I would say those are the 2 biggest factors for MF. Although buying scarabs is kinda irrelevant since you can buy so many in one trade. It's mostly just having better ROI
@c-tothefourth4879
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgunwasn’t there some supply issues with the mega expensive scarabs? I assume they resolved then?
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
@@c-tothefourth4879 Curation still has that issue, but I'm expecting a rework on that scarab in the next league (it causes too many issues).
@user-xo8ui1nj9o
3 ай бұрын
I LOVE this type of content. Very interesting to hear podcast videos by you! Keep em coming!
@angrykouhai2053
3 ай бұрын
My personal opinion is that, bow builds really enable pushing harder content than doing MF in other types of builds because of the ceilling in power bows provide, Bows essentially roll "2 handed weapon mods" in terms of tier strength, + you can use quivers (despite having a pseudo 2H weapon). Combine that with Headhunter and the fact you can offscreen and you have a build that can ramp up damage really fast, and the faster you go, the stronger you become. The fact there is more attention on the mirror market for bows+quivers than pretty much any other item type in poe speaks volumes. I don't think MF is a problem, but surely there is a huge discrepancy in damage ceilling and clear speed between bow builds and other builds.
@peterhuang6954
3 ай бұрын
Very good point bro!
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
I've already mention this in another comment, but it's not just bows. For example DD mf can clear t17 on 1/10th of the budget of a bow build, although slower clear. But you could then transition into BV mf on higher budget and clear at similar speeds to a bow build.
@2_Stepper
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun BV mf IS a bow build lol
@angrykouhai2053
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun Would you mind to tell me what is the weapon of choice for BV? 💀
@215196
3 ай бұрын
Add a mod line on HH: "IIQ and IIR from item do not effect you." Problem solved.
@Lucia-qc5wq
3 ай бұрын
actually POG
@arildk90
3 ай бұрын
I would like to see you create a minmax non MF version of your build to draw some actual currency/hr differences. I would like to see how much better your character would be without the quant gear "dragging you down"
@jat1424
3 ай бұрын
I think what frustrates people is the fact that a full blown MF character can do all content. I my opinion, a full MF geared character shouldn't also be able to EASILY do the hardest content in the game, mostly because you can take a bow build and blast maps as fast as a non-MF character. There should be a huge movement speed or damage penalty or something so that a T17 with full MF gear takes 5 times as long to run as a normal character. 2 minute T17 Map clears means there isn't really a sacrifice to having MF gear on. You want a shit load of Quant and Rarity? Great, but you should be take a real hit somewhere for choosing those stats. You literally can get most of your Resistances, some life, 30% move speed and easily equipable equipment with 2 Ventors, Greed's and Goldwyrm. Remove the 30% attribute requirement from Greed's, make it +30% so a bow build has to figure out how to be able to equip it and sacrifice something else. Just my 2 cents, not angry about it. One thing people don't completely realize is that if people like you weren't pumping drops into the league, the gear they want to trade for would be much more expensive as it would be much rarer. Thanks for the farming strat tips and videos !
@Hitokiro
3 ай бұрын
No matter the investment, an MF character should not be able to do the highest tier of ANY content, that includes map, imo. I hope they get rid of MF or nerf it to the point where it's impossible to do top tier content. It feels really bad mapping when you're a normal char, where you could be a bow build getting 60% more loot in the same map..
@DexterNguyenn
3 ай бұрын
True the fomo is real. When I first started playing PoE my joy was purely from getting my char to the better power level, even minor DPS increase, bit by bit. Since I discovered MF, the goal became like enough power with a set of quant gear, cause otherwise I feel like I would miss out a lot of loot. For that the game became somewhat less enjoyable for me since
@pigeon7777
3 ай бұрын
Personally I wouldn't mind MF being removed. I get that some of the top strats atm aren't using it, but the problem is that when a strategy is doable by a build that can use MF, that skews the price, potentially pricing out and/or reducing the loot per hour of non-MF people. If MF gear was removed GGG could balance loot easier as its a factor they can ignore and then loot per hour could remain the same post MF removal. Headhunter is the biggest factor in this I think, without it it would be extremely difficult for a MF character to keep up with the speed of a nonMF character, but as it stands with a headhunter on certain strats headhunter provides so much power that there is little advantage to not going MF, esentially removing the downside that MF is meant to have. This will only get worse as power creep continues and more and more of the game is able to be done with MF. This makes me feel sudo forced to do MF, for example this legue I wanted to try farm legion and picking a non-mf character just seems stupid
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
But why do you need to MF legion? Majority of legions profit is from the loot tile rewards which MF has 0 affect on. This is the point i'm making, with people hating on MF without understanding how it works. Will you get increase loot with MF during legion? Sure. But unless your character is multi-mirrors, you're betting off making a character as fast as possible to clear the legion asap for maximum profit/hr.
@pigeon7777
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun but I am playing your build my dude and its the fastest legion clearer I have ever played, the multi-mirror thing is just not true. I would feel really bad swapping off to something else as it would be similar speed, with less loot. In fact I don't think I will EVER farm legion again unless it's with one of your MF builds. Thus my point of MF gear warping the meta around it (but really its the headhunter because without it the build at my low investment would 100% be slower). At the end of the day there is a literal zero percent chance GGG removes MF, they have already said that they are brining in MF into POE 2
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
@@pigeon7777 While it's true my build is fast at clearing legion, there are in fact better builds. I would say it more so feels mandatory for you because you don't know the other builds that are out there, which is fine because poe is a very complex game, but I can tell you my build is far from being the best legion build.
@pigeon7777
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun fair enough! Couldn't imagine being faster the build slaps
@darksasuke45x
3 ай бұрын
@@pigeon7777bv can kill the entire legion the moment you click on the monolith
@GrimReapiN
3 ай бұрын
Isn't MF supposed to give you more loot at the cost of making the game harder? That's the way I take it considering most MF uniques have a small drawback or are pretty bad. I wonder how players would react if they reworked MF so it makes the game much harder than now.
@madhatten5123
3 ай бұрын
I just miss the days when quant was tied into league mechanics so investment and difficulty in your maps = more rewards. It’s a power fantasy game and to get good rewards I have to put shitty quant gear onto my end game character. It just feels bad imo
@synti737
3 ай бұрын
MF just needs to become more accessible to a wider variety of builds and classes, it's obviously not in an ideal state right now if almost all MF characters are deadeye bow builds.
@lukasbrauneruv
3 ай бұрын
every league MF is the must have in group play especialy on leaguestart. The amount of items dropping with culler and without culler is insanely different... You can do any content in group without issues and you just slap full IIq IIr gear on culler and call it today. On league start solo players couldnt do div farm strategy because u wouldnt even make enough to pay for the scarabs while groups were making 3mirrors /day
@iiDeMeNToR
3 ай бұрын
MF is very interesting especially as new player, kinda hard to come by the gear and to scale my build for the trade off cuz u leave damage on the table to compensate a little more loot dropped. In theory u can out pace mf chars by having min maxed speedy char.
@samuelhipperson8503
3 ай бұрын
i can do juiced t17's with full curation juice, but without mf gear its not as profitable and that feels shit.
@DroopSpyda
3 ай бұрын
A good example of MF getting outpaced. Prior to this league, due to the enraged strongbox mechanic, people found that it was more profitable to farm apoth cards with a build that can do the maps at a faster pace. Hence why you saw many people enter crimson prison with something like posion spark since it was OP in terms of clear speed, tank, damage, and utility (could run most 8 mod maps). My opinion why people dislike MF and group play is because they see it and it looks fun, but for whatever reason they just aren't able to do it themselves. It is envy. I have felt this way before when going to put an MF character together and just not having enough investment and the build falling flat on its face. I feel like many players in this game have done this and as a result hate MF.
@laucon11
3 ай бұрын
Problem is not MF: trading power for more loot is fine imo. The problem is headhunter (and to a lesser extent ele bows) as it allows you to MF without downsides. Slapping on one item which gives you so much power that most other item slots can be devoted to quant and rarity should not be possible.
@Lancer78x
3 ай бұрын
A lot of top players in a lot of games think this way that games are too easy, but when you have like 75% of the people playing POE not able to complete t16's maps It shows you how hard it is for newer players and casuals. As far as MF I have been playing since beta back in 2012, prolly have 1000's of hours in this game. I don't mind MF, I don't really enjoy the style. I think some people just hate it because they want to have this power fantasy and they feel like if they want to get the highest currency return they need to run MF, where MF is a balance of power and MF stats. I think MF offers this 3rd axis of balance between defense, offense and MF. It should stay, even though I don't currently enjoy it, I see why people enjoy it.
@shnurr214
3 ай бұрын
I think the worst part of mf is what it does to builds. If it’s ever strong it just makes every build use the same 5 shitty unique items which is pretty lame to anyone that cares about character variety
@user-hu7fl8ll9h
3 ай бұрын
the idea is that with FM gear game becomes more difficult but more rewarding, while some builds, can get by with 2-3 regular items, gaining both defense and attack as well as speed due to XX buffs. In a party, the MF character generally only culling, the whole difficulty comes down to the availability of people for party, this has nothing to do with the game.
@Rj-cf8eh
3 ай бұрын
My issue with mf is the fomo. Theres 2 parts to this. A) magic find builds are not very diverse. Sure theres usually a few archetypes that are viable at any one time, but its almost always the bow builds that can fit in more quant whilst still clearing juiced maps. Id be more ok with this, if the meta changed more frequently, but its been bow builds since i started playing, and i dont enjoy them. I loved mf chieftain last league, but its gone now. The concentration of mf builds also makes the market impossible for casuals. Whereas if there were 5-6 mf builds on the same level as deadeye bow builds, more people would be able to enjoy mf without compromising on its fun. B) it just feels bad to have to pick between earning 40% less profit and playing a build you enjoy (both in terms of diversity and the power lost through mf). You can argue that the base league mechanics are at fault, but the reality is the economy always settles somewhere between the base league mechanic and mf. The base league mechanic is USUALLY not responsible for these feelings of fomo, because everyone has access to them, whilst not everyone can access mf without compromising on their build fantasy. Also i think its ridiculous to say thay if something is op with mf, its still op with 40% less currency. 20% can be the difference between good and op. 40% can be the difference between dead average and insane. Like if i earned 40% more money at my job?... Yeah i agree mf is fine this league. But theres definitely many leagues where its op imo. In response to your arguments as to why mf is good for the game: Mf does not keep mapping relevant. Mageblood keeps mapping relevant in the absence of any other reason to map. If mf didnt exist in those league, mageblood and other unique prices would rise to match. Also there are absolutely examples of hsrd content that arent infinite and still challenging at multimirror investments. Valdos is such an example.
@mclovin4974
3 ай бұрын
The reason I don't like MF is because it kinda forces me to play a certain style that I don't enjoy. I want to make my character as strong as possible, but you can't really do that with MF gears. I know people gonna say you don't have to play MF, but then I feel like I'm missing out on the extra loots. So you see, it's like a dilemma, to be MF or not to be MF. And the mats of some strategies are based on the profit of MF. So in end, I still end up playing MF even though I don't totally enjoy it.
@portport9139
3 ай бұрын
Mf is bad for a few reasons 1) limits build diversity and makes people who want to be efficient forced to use mf 2) mf builds themselves use cheap uniques in almost all slots = boring and unfun pobing 3) cuts off some of the top end farms for non-mf builds making people once agin feel forced to play them 4) while yea the core of poe is dropping loot from monsters as you mentioned, the other core part is item creation and built making which one again mf builds create a massive limit I think they should make higher difficulty farms and bring mf back to what it uses to be. I dont mind the overall idea of mf gear but it should have its own strats like old t3 tower farming and not hurt other farms like curation farming. Also a VERY important point is the overall impact of mf on any league, you cant just say "oh well atm barrel are best so mf is not op anyways" while in the past may times things like boxes, curation farming, and other top end farms are all gated behind a boring mf char using all unique gear minus a bow and quiver.
@reinkengen5237
3 ай бұрын
I think the main reason people wouldn't like GGG making the game harder is that it means you'd need to play the best builds to do that content or spend an insane amount of currency to gear a less optimized build. They would need to find a way to balance the game in such a way that a wide range of skills would be able to do the harder content at a similar investment, but with the insane amount of possible ways to build a character, many of which GGG-staff have probably never considered before someone created it, that is next to impossible
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
I agree and disagree, the thing is PoE is a very complex game and if the game was made harder I still believe majority of the skills could do t17, but the fact is, most people don't make their own builds/don't know how to, so if they cant find a t17 viable build with their skill they think it's unviable (which is just untrue).
@freddykruegir
3 ай бұрын
Good video, with some solid points. Appreciate the content
@chrischoi4025
3 ай бұрын
thank you for this, it drives me crazy how sanctum just prints currency and ppl keep saying MF is a problem.
@csk3578
3 ай бұрын
Sanctum just prints currency? How much is it printing? Cant even beat essence farming day 1-4 this league, very rng heavy also can't auto-pilot. Not only itrequire a strong character but investment into relic too. Ain't no way sanctum is OP in 3.24.
@chrischoi4025
3 ай бұрын
So what you prefer if we nerf mf so that other “auto-pilot” strats with less rng can make more currency? This is my point. There are strats that can be enhanced with mf and not others. But ppl make good currency without mf too and yet hyper focus on mf because they see a 15second clip of mf players dropping crazy loot. Its so dumb
@csk3578
3 ай бұрын
@@chrischoi4025 never said anything about mf. It’s a different topic from what i commented. Saying “it drives me crazy how sanctum just print currency” like it’s some kind of OP method to make currency is simply not true.
@Trev0413
3 ай бұрын
The problem is always balance. If you make content so difficult that you can't wear MF it has to have rewards reflecting that. So let's say hypothetically t17s are that. You shouldn't be able to run a strat with full MF gear in say t14s that makes more money/items than someone running the "hardest" content. BUT if such content truly exists it's way too difficult for the majority of the playerbase so what ends up happening is exactly where we are now.... You can do the hardest content in SOME MF gear on very specific builds/interactions that clearly outpace every other option, which again comes back to balance. Which limits what players perceive as viable, coupled with their trade league FOMO and hence the hatred. Its very hard for it to exist and be balanced.
@dirge51
3 ай бұрын
I also enjoy the optional character/gear pressure. The game has core, obligatory gear pressure through Res, Suppression etc, and MF just offers a further, optional, pressure that extends the fun of character preponderance and problem solving.
@rennac9666
3 ай бұрын
I feel like the issue with MF is how it is presented. People feel like the ultimate character for trade league is an MF character that can do t16s (or 17s). If you're doing a strat that doesn't care about MF gear, you will never get a return on your investment for the cost of the MF gear you buy and you will probably die more, lowering your div/h. I like the quant affixes idea as long as a "greeds replacement" chest costs dozens of divines or more.
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Yes if quant went back on rare gear I would want it to be extremely rare/hard to craft, so the average player wouldn't feel forced to wear it, but it would just be something for the top 1% to chase. As without quant gear, the game is finished on a 300d-400d char and there isn't all that much left to do/chase for.
@holtreich
3 ай бұрын
"MF by nature really can't be OP because of what it affects in the game. It can only ever enhance your farm." This isn't a good argument because it entirely comes down to the actual numbers. If equipping goldwyrm and 2 ventors gave you 400% increased quant (ignoring diminishing returns) then there would be no question that it's OP. I'm sure you would agree that "enhancing your farm" to drop 5 times as many items as a non-MF character would be overtuned. The real question is what amount of quant (if any) is reasonable to get in exchange for lowering your character's power. I'm not sure how I feel about MF right now but I think the current implementation leaves much to be desired. The reason is that it severely limits the number of viable endgame builds if you want to farm efficiently. Any build that can't give up their boots, rings, amulet, and a flask slot for quant feels bad in comparison to an MF bow build. I wonder if you could solve this by allowing quant on any item slot, but steeply increase the curve of diminishing returns, or put a hard cap on it (but in general I don't like the idea of hard caps). Something to give builds more flexibility instead of being forced to equip that one pair of boots or lose out on 20% quant.
@MGMarkov
3 ай бұрын
MF is bad in any game but what it makes it horrible in POE is the existance of HH, an item that can ramp up your stats and compensate everything you are loosing with MF.
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
If you're going to say it's bad then give your reason, it's easy to say anything is bad, it's hard to actually give a good argument.
@MGMarkov
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun i can give many good arguments, the absolute obvious which both Ben and JR (i believe) mentioned is that if MF exists it is intended to be at a cost for player power and the HH is currently working around that. At the moment the combination is just hilariously bad for the game, literally every person using 3/4 NF items with HH and bot even knowing what is happening on the screen is the most efficient player in POE. This for sure will be gone (i hope at least, this is my understanding) in PoE 2 and the actual skills of the player will matter for the currency per hour. Why MF is bad, something I agree with Ziz and JR is because when you gain player power you should become more efficient in getting currency and sacrificing it should bot be more profitable than getting more power. Maybe without HH we will have a different feeling about MF but atm it is horrible
@MGMarkov
3 ай бұрын
@@Toxickys Hahah, bro, take it easy, I have a few mirrors worht of gear and raw currency, I just do not think this playstile is funny, actually, I cannot comprehend how someone likes that, but obviously i an claiming this in the wrong group. For me, Bossing, dodging mechanics, sanctum, are 100000000000 times funnier than walking forward, clicking a bow skill and not even knowing what is happening on the screen, this is just not funny for me and I will not play this ways, I will rather uninstall POE. I actually enjoyed the competition Betweeen Lance and Fubgun this league, I was comparing it with my results, yeah, I was with 5 times less currency but I play 3-4 times less so this was better than I was expecting.
@MGMarkov
3 ай бұрын
@@Toxickys haha, sure, i do not like that you can one-shot everything at somw point, this is usually when I quit the league, but it seems you like this. For me this is a problem of the balance in end game, there should always be mechanics that one-shot you and you should never be able to one-shot bosses. If sanctum is boring I have no idea how you think MF is good, but go agead, have your opinion
@TheSacredMaster
3 ай бұрын
@@MGMarkov "there should always be mechanics that one-shot you and you should never be able to one-shot bosses" Lol what? Where is the fun in that? Why would you not want to be able to upgrade a character to the point of annihilating all content?
@DaveyJones59
3 ай бұрын
I have so much larger a problem with party quant than with IIQ on gear. The fact that all monster drops ESPECIALLY divination cards are balanced around players getting full party quant with an mf culler adding like 4-5 buckets of more multipliers stacking on each other. I know party play is not that much more profitable than solo play when it comes to splitting the loot between everyone, but it makes the game FEEL worse for people who are not in parties. Case and point, imagine setting out to farm mageblood or HH through div card drops solo. You will almost always be able to buy the item before getting 2 or even sometimes 1 divination card drop.
@Slingyman3
3 ай бұрын
The thing is there is no setback to mf in the current game, like you can do the hardest content in one of the fastest way and you get more loot out of it, ao what's the point of doing anything but MF
@bpusef
3 ай бұрын
The setback is you can do it faster as non MF. Did you even watch the video? If you wear full DPS gear you can clear content quicker, but he also mentions content is probably too easy which is an issue with player power.
@Francorocco
3 ай бұрын
@@bpusef bro, mf builds are usualy the fastest one to clear shit, what are you on about..... why do you think most mf'ers are bow builds? all the dmg comes from the bow anyways, you aren't giving up on basically anything to get all this extra loot
@AlucardFaith
3 ай бұрын
Of course there is a setback, otherwise people would be running around with double ventor's and windripper. It's always a tradeoff between getting a stronger character (be it more damage, faster, more tanky, etc...) and getting more quant. Fubgun dropped Greed's for barrel farm for a reason, he felt that what little he was getting from the extra quant wasn't worth the tradeoff.
@Slingyman3
3 ай бұрын
@@bpuseflike the other guy said mfs are already fast af, so it doesn't matter, and you shouldn't be able to run any mf in t17 period the fact you can go 80-100 quant and do the hardest t16 content is crazy
@Slingyman3
3 ай бұрын
@@AlucardFaiththis only happened this league in t17, mf still has no problem in t16s at all and doing it fast af, there is no world where you should be able to run the hardest content and this fast on MF you either shouldn't be able to do hard content on mf or you should be slower than the average build.
@Repper3444
3 ай бұрын
MF Gameplay in a nutshell. Step 1: Select Bowcharacter Step 2: Put on MF- Gear, which only gives benefit to loot not to the characterstrength or gives an even bigger downside to your characterstrengh Step 3: Buy mirror BOW, Quiver and Headhunter Step 4: Put your Atlastreepoints in quant, rarity and select the league mechanics that spawn most rare monster which are delirium and beyond take eater altars for even more quant and rarity which also fuck up your character even more or go BtB which should destroy a character aswell which has only 2 minmaxed items (Bow and Quiver) Step 5: Enjoy the hardest mapping content with a character that has 90% shit gear and make more money than any other actually min/maxed character that is non mf. Weird dont see how that concept could upset people. PoB also must have cost crazy brainpower. LUL
@kooshappreciator4773
3 ай бұрын
ah yes 90% shit gear (1 ring, boots (which gives 0 useful mods if you swap them anyway), simplex which still has crit multi and life, 1 flask). Surely you can farm t17 btb with only mirrored bow, mirrored quiver and hh. Surely swapping 1 ring will drastically improve build
@MessengerProductionz
3 ай бұрын
"People hate on MF for no reason" The brainrot some magic finders have is insane. You explained why people hate on it in the beginning of the video, then 2 minutes after you return to saying that people hate it for no reason? People hate MF because it enhances the amount loot that we're already getting too much of, T17s are printing out T0s, scarabs and currency at an absurd pace, yes the base droprates of loot in t17s need to be lowered but MF enhancing it aswell is an issue by itself. MF isnt the only problem no, but it's a big part of the problem as to why squires and kalandra rings are 1 div and headhunters can be bought for chaos orbs. At least put in a disclaimer saying you're biased in your takes.
@javisup564
3 ай бұрын
I believe when you talk about return on investment you don't bring up the biggest painpoint with MF. You bring up valid points "If MF didnt exist, I would just make a fast character, outpace normal by 2characters, make double the money". Sure, fair enough. But the issue is the return on investment, AND the cost of "investment". You dont talk about this second part. So if you need to invest 20 divines in a map and you earn 30, without MF you'd be earning 20, therefore not earning money, sometimes even losing. With MF, you're able to make that 20d investment into a 10d profit per map. This means certain farms cannot be run unless you have MF or you play in a party. It's always party players and MF players that "drive" the price of materials up, rendering those strats unavailable for other players. As of right now, it'd be outright stupid to open a map with a curation scarab if you don't have MF or youre playing in a party, since you'd most likely (on average) lose money and time. The coolest farm in the game is gated behind MF and party quantity buff. In the example you mentioned about having a fast character, it's true you would farm double the money per hour as a normal, twice as slow player. But that player would STILL be able to do any map/content, and he'd be able to enjoy all farms in the game without actively losing money. That is NOT the case with MF being a factor in the equation. To me, thats the main reason MF and party play are a problem. There are other reasons like a strat being so far ahead of others in terms of earning that the prices of items are set so high, because as I said before, it's the people with the most purchasing power who will determine the price of items they want. So if you want a forbidden jewel for your build, you will compete against Pete, who farms 3 divines an hour doing Heist, and John who farms 5d per hour doing harbinger in yellow maps. But you will also compete against Ted who does 100 divines an hour farming T17 scarabs. To me, POE is the best when all mechanics and farms are needed and they feed and complement each other, in a living, balanced economy. There'll always be a "best farm", but when the best farm is 20 times better than another farm, thats just terrible game design and bad for the game. It's one of the reasons we see things like Simplex costing 1 mirror in Aff. league. Because anything else other than what the people doing the "top farm" want, is extremely useless and peanuts in comparison to the uniques/currency they're getting. Ultimately, I'll just say MF feels terible to play. I've played MF many, many leagues. Farmed many mirrors, and it just feels awful to actively "weaken" your character to make the game more efficient. It kills the power fantasy of the game, and you'll end up buying massive upgrades that actually make your character WEAKER but able to farm more money. At least now with T17, farming maps with MF became substantially harder and only the top 0.1% is able to use extreme amounts of quantity, and they do this late in the league with very expensive builds. Before with T16 it was pointless not to run MF because the "most profitble" content was so easy you could run it half naked.
@madhatten5123
3 ай бұрын
My main issue with PoE right now is the new Scarabs kinda suck. The gatekeeping that will continue with this current system will push more ppl into groups or out of mapping content.
@aBait.
3 ай бұрын
People, including me, hate MF because it makes you play gimped character if you want to be the most efficient when mapping. Instead of farming and making your character the best possible you are wearing MF gear because it nets you more loot/h. If they removed MF from gear you could farm like you are doing now but on a way better character and have more fun in the process. About your argument why MF is good, they just need to add harder content. Few years ago you could MF low tier maps OR build a good character and farm 100% deli, you had a choice, right now you can farm hardest content on MF character and 100% deli isn't even worth it, smth went wrong there. I like mapping, and I play MF every league but I would rather do it on a good character without MF gear if it didn't feel mandatory.
@Dilom_97
3 ай бұрын
Doping is not op, it just enhances the capability of an athlete
@TheVillainArc363
3 ай бұрын
Lmao you just explained his whole video
@dex44444
3 ай бұрын
Perfect summary.
@HBMKylex
3 ай бұрын
Great summary
@lukasbrauneruv
3 ай бұрын
problem with MF is you can go full MF in group play with 0defense or offense and than it scales with party quant and than with league mechanic and atlas strats and scrabs and just multiliplier over multiplier
@TBrod
3 ай бұрын
Drug addict defending his addiction publicly
@hexen943
3 ай бұрын
😂😂facts
@2_Stepper
3 ай бұрын
You just dont see the picture. The last example where you say the slow jugg would make 50% less currency is true. People dont care about that, its the fact that some strategies are GATEKEPT behind mf because of the 40% is so substantional when juicing to the max. Again its the ROI that scews it
@Cat_vs_Jad
3 ай бұрын
LMFAO "barrels aren't affected by player quant" headshot the casuals
@doomzx8284
3 ай бұрын
Why don't you do Barrel's strategy without MF if it doesn't require MF tho? To be fair and real here, you are doing it with MF because you are adding value from the map on top of the Barrel farm which converts again in MF being the strongest farmer in the game. Nobody can make more money FARMING than MFers ( not counting flipping, crafting etc but just playing the game and farming ). Best way to fix this imo is to somehow balance it out so MF characters can not handle highest content in the game ( t17's in this case ) so people who have way stronger characters are actually rewarded for the power they build overtime. That's my honest opinion
@itsJets
3 ай бұрын
MF is the perfect scapegoat for the average Redditor because it will always be unobtainable for them
@irdave2537
3 ай бұрын
This ofc is just my perspective on the matter. I don't hate MF, but it does bore the hell out of me. There are so many interesting builds and items and mechanics in the game, yet they are all just inferior in terms of getting loot from monsters compared to MF. And it doesn't matter what MF build you run you very often have exactly the same rings, boots, gloves, chest helmet etc or very similar. Same reason I don't like adorned. Just turns all builds into using exactly the same mechanics. Ignore 99% of the cool stuff on skill tree and 99% of cool items and interactions in game. I think it would be fine if there was more risk reward style stuff, if risk reward style things could offer as much as MF then I think most people would be fine. Delve is a good example of rewarding builds that heavily invest into making really strong characters, but ofc many people don't like delve and there isn't really any other mechanic that can keep increasing your rewards based on how far you push and how strong your build becomes.
@IteratorI
3 ай бұрын
MF is not just "more drops". MF is minmaxed gameplay mindset. A fair MF chad will farm 4-5 t16 maps in 10 minutes, while a regular MF hating soyjack completes one map in that timeframe. And then the soyjack spends another 20 minutes screaming in comments that "MF is busted", all while the chad completes another 10 maps and drops 2 divs. I think MF is not OP, and most people who hate MF don't really understand how it works or what it actually does. They think MF is some kidna cheater dark magic where you slap a couple items on it and boom you're shitting 90 million divs per second. And that belief is further reinforced by GGG adding busted mechanics like wisps and t17 which yield crap ton of farm anyway, but people blame that on MF, because - once again - they don't really understand how it works.
@IteratorI
3 ай бұрын
I got a couple IRL mates playing poe who can wake up in the middle of the night and give a lecture about how MF is op, how it warped the economy and screwed them over, PLOT TWIST we compared achievments and apparently I do more maps in two weeks than they do in a league :D
@edog551
3 ай бұрын
Im farming t16s fast for challenges, so im just in full mf gear because why not. Got a mirror after 2000+ with some other really good drops. I wanna say its the mf
@Devellaro
3 ай бұрын
Also, if you think POE is too easy, go play Ruthless, it was made for you.
@zyntril6404
3 ай бұрын
4:30 yup mostly people hate it without having any understanding of how it even works.
@c-tothefourth4879
3 ай бұрын
Since barrels are so good would you recommend not using MF at all until you can do t17s and then add it in? And is your non MF ele hit POB still good to use?
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Yep, that's what I suggest to do. Only add on MF when you can comfortable fit it in. If you're bricking maps with MF gear then you should not be wearing it.
@bpusef
3 ай бұрын
Pretty good video. The majority of "I hate MF" posts are people who never get a build strong enough to put quant gear on feeling like somehow the reason their build sucks is because other people are making more money than them.
@finnawhale7188
3 ай бұрын
I think there is a problem when mf bow builds have faster clear than a large majority of builds while also dropping 40-50% more loot. Idk if the problem is bows or mf, but I don't think there should be 1 build that is astronomically better at mapping than every other build. In affliction you could at least earn comparable currency to bows by farming abyss, but this league there isn't really an alternative. I guess the endgame mapping strats this league are also just bad :(.
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Thats just a problem (or not) with the game. Speed is always going to be relevant for currency earn, the question is do you limit the speed of characters could go? I'd say no, because that feels pretty bad in d4. Although there are better builds for non-mf, can try High investment osin spark or BV occy. both these builds would clear barrels faster then my current char.
@finnawhale7188
3 ай бұрын
I have no problem with fast clear, but maybe it's time for bows to be dethroned as the best mapper. I've played bow mf since when windripper wasn't complete trash, and here I am in 2024 still playing bow mf. I think we are due for a meta switch is all.
@Essemlol
3 ай бұрын
MF is fine in a vacuum. I would go as far as to say its balanced IF Headhunter was not in the game. Headhunter makes it so a MF char has no downsides which is the whole purpose of MF gear. "Make a char weaker to enhance your loot" Meanwhile running around in a juiced map with 50+ HH buffs doing more damage and have more defense than 99.9% of any non MF build. In a world with Headhunter then Quant/rarity on items is not balanced and its not good for the game.
@reneil8958
3 ай бұрын
Most of ppl hate not solo MF, solo MF is fine (i actually dont see any reason right now play solo MF), but group MF. Group MF ruining game. I droped in this league 7, SEVEN t0 without MF character, but when i checked price for Kalandra touch, for HH - i laughed hard. Group MF is the reason why ppl hating MF. But they thinking that you getting same loot with multi mirror characters as group players with 100 div characters xdd
@yassuosekai4221
3 ай бұрын
what do you mean about "dilution" in curation favorite map list?
@Dziodan
2 ай бұрын
I dont get it if MF is not a huge benefit , why are you running it every league?
@mady381
3 ай бұрын
The issue is folks misunderstand what effective quant is. They see someone running around with 120% quant and assume they'll be dropping 120% more loot. While in reality, you're handicapping your char's dps by 80-90% and your defense, for 40-50% more loot. On top of that, MF gear has inherent drawbacks. Take Greed's for example, it literally reduces your res and makes your char slower, and it doesn't even have evasion on it to synergize with the Ranger's tree. And finally, the level of investment required to make an MF build capable of doing the hardest content that a non MF 200D build can, is mirrors upon mirrors. IDK, 80-90% dps/defense decrease + speed decrease + ridiculous budget required to make the build even functional kinda warrant a 50% more loot buff in exchange.
@Rj-cf8eh
3 ай бұрын
I'd be more in favour of that take if it were true for every build in the game. As it is, it's almost exclusively bow builds who top this list every league. Sure there are others, but they either clear 3x slower or can't do juiced t17 with any level of investment. If I had a fun puzzle to solve and a place to dump currency to get 50% more loot on every build I played, I'd be much more supportive of mf.
@mady381
3 ай бұрын
@@Rj-cf8eh Then you're confused and blame MF when your problem is with build clear diversity. If bows get deleted, people will just do DD/BV. If that gets deleted too, we'll do LS. And if that gets deleted too, we'll do KB. And nothing will change besides a couple of seconds of difference in map clear. There will always be one or two skills that are better than everything else at clearing, that's how the game works. Arguing for removing whole mechanics from the game just because of bow power creep makes zero sense. What's next? Thread of Hope or headhunter deletion cause they're OP on Deadeye? Redirect your dislike towards what you actually have an issue with.
@bpusef
3 ай бұрын
@@Rj-cf8eh This league DD MF is pretty objectively better than bow at all level of investment besides maybe the 5+ mirror point.
@otpwo4387
3 ай бұрын
90% ... maybee very early but once u get ur mirror bow u can do uber boss dont say shiit. MF is pretty op and force people to play 2 or 3 builds and group is literally killing the game with the curation scarab.
@Rj-cf8eh
3 ай бұрын
@@mady381 I mean... That's not how it works at all. There is such a thing as balance. Things can come in and out of the meta. Mf would be a lot better if the builds rotated more, rather than deadeye being de facto for multiple years. And there are absolutely things GGG can do to improve mf diversity. Add a really good defensive mf/str shield would already be interesting for marauders who don't really have any mf options right now. It can't be too dangerous to add a few more mf items supporting gem level scalers - at worse they'll be slightly stronger than deadeye for a league. I'm not arguing for mf removal, and I never said I was. You're just putting words in my mouth. In just pointing out issues I have with the current iteration of mf. Build diversity in this game is usually fine. It's specifically build diversity when it comes to mf that's a problem. Deadeye has been the most played ascendancy for atleast the last 4 leagues with almost a third of them wearing a ventors and goldwrym.
@fiamess6636
3 ай бұрын
HOLY YAPINGTON CITY
@jusibai813
3 ай бұрын
the issue is internet make everyone knows the MF gameplay
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Stuff like highlights/clips definitely enhance the issue, MF can produce big drops, those big drops get clipped and then people think MF is the thing ruining the game.
@ominaroust1109
3 ай бұрын
hey, nimis belongs in the left ring slot and ventors in the right. No, it doesn't make a difference in game. Yes, it matters. ):
@popeyegaming1342
3 ай бұрын
nah bro stop coping, the fact that i gimp my character to drop more stuff is just plain dumb and boring. it was dumb in d2 and it is dumb in poe. Let me build the strongest char possible and stop making quant/rarity a thing. The ROI is just added on top
@ikashibimauler
3 ай бұрын
I like your content, but I disagree with this video. MF really is overpowered and you know it. If it wasn't, people wouldn't feel compelled to run it every league. The biggest issue with it is that if you do not have MF gear you cannot generate the return on investment needed to maintain the most lucrative strategies based on materials since you are competing with MFers. If you do not run MF, you will not be able to compete with what someone running MF can afford to invest in a map simply because they generate 50-100% (extremely conservative #) more rewards for the same scarabs and maps. MF is distorts the entire endgame. BTW I love MF and regularly run MF characters but it is OP full stop.
@nawajamesharlyquin8245
3 ай бұрын
barrel is effected by item quantity or not?
@user-if7eq5zg6q
3 ай бұрын
Barrels dont drop more loot than monsters that's a lie. Mf is bad for game coz returns from maps make map materials more expensive and basicly it feels stupid to map w/o mf. It affect build deversity and just makes it's boring to build your character coz it's always ventors simplex goldwyrm. I run mf like every league and i wish this shit would be removed or reworked dramaticly, but i dont know how exactly to make it not beeing boring. Mapping is my favorite activity in poe, but mf makes it worse.
@jotadelafies8974
3 ай бұрын
For curation strat, whats better @fubgun, back to basics or Just ur beyond,deli, ritual tree?
@rhysduggan2167
3 ай бұрын
B2B doesn't spawn enough mobs for Curation farm.
@jotadelafies8974
3 ай бұрын
@@rhysduggan2167 i think the same, but maybe with the bonus to quantity (sometimes 400 quant + 400 currency quant) could be better than more mobs with less quant. Thx anyway!
@khurshed128
3 ай бұрын
I was just watching the subtractem, Palsteron and CaptainLance9 interview with Jonathan and when Palsteron complained about MF as usual, Jonathan said exactly what you said about the top 1% thing. I wish you were there to tell him about MF from your perspective because Palsteron gave me cancer.
@khurshed128
3 ай бұрын
Also, love your ranting videos.
@otpwo4387
3 ай бұрын
For me, solo MF is okay but party group MF is killing the game.
@Cat_vs_Jad
3 ай бұрын
The comments are so cursed
@whatiswinrate
3 ай бұрын
Bro MF is fine ngl, the average Reddit user is just bad in the game and spend more time in flaming you and GGG instead of actually playing the Game.
@resintestin2281
3 ай бұрын
I agree with everything you're saying here, I'm afraid there's not enough mappers in the youtube comments.. tread lightly
@Devellaro
3 ай бұрын
MF sucks because you have to make a weaker character than you would have otherwise. D3 had it close to right with the loot mods being secondary and not affecting your offense, only some of your defense. Then they took them away... In POE you sacrifice speed, offense, defense and usually the skill you want to play with, just so you can go MF 'properly'. I think all the MF needs to come off the gear, and be a temporary enchant on gear. Like take the normal enchanting slot from Lab and put some MF in there, but make them last 24 hours at most. Or even better, make it last per mob kills like the incubators. That way it is not wasting away while you stand in the hideout. Honestly replace all the random specific loot Incubators with raw quantity or rarity, or in rare cases both.
@bred9526
3 ай бұрын
I just don’t like the concept of loot tied to gear. To me, quant and rarity should only be tied to content tier/difficulty
@paulkaufmann3399
3 ай бұрын
If barrels are best farm next league im quitting day2
@aleksandarandrasev8099
3 ай бұрын
I can explain why people hate mf. There is one single reason and that is that people want to make strongest characters in this game, thats the goal for prety much everyone in games like this. MF staying in the game forces people to sabotage their character power just for the fact that they know they are being behind the curve when not using it, oh look i got 2 divines while mister streamer got 5. Nobody likes that and it makes u tunnel vision your character into same archetype every single league. Also not to mention map materials are fluctuating prices according to mf character returns, othervise your ROI sometimes goes negative. There is more reasons but i think this is the main one.
@shrandis
3 ай бұрын
Great points. I noticed last league a lot of people called it "MF" when they just did wisp juice without any MF gear. Maybe that's a reason how MF ended up as the scapegoat recently.
@Legionthecomrade
3 ай бұрын
Magic find is generally hated because many people make the horrific life choice of comparing themselves to where others are. I have seen it over and over again for years now. The vast majority of people that complain about magic find are complaining because they aren't making as much. It's not a fun issue. It's not balancing. It is a poor life decision. The reality of it is that the people who are at the very top are no lifing it. Nonstop degenerate farming all day every day until they burn out or hit some arbitrary number of currency. For some reason - these people think that if magic find is removed - they will somehow be making equivalent currency when they never had a chance in the first place. MF has never been bad for the game. It is the base game or a league mechanic going absolutely out of control with balancing that has ever caused an issue. Despite magic finding being in the game every single league - things stay stable and in a good spot generally. The economy has been fine league after league after league discounting the very few recent exceptions. Don't hear anyone ever complaining about group play and that is infinitely worse than magic finding if you wanted to call magic finding bad. It's just people being angry and feeling left out over something they aren't going to enjoy in the first place and were never going to be able to compete with in the first place regardless of if it was there or not. I have never once made currency making my goal and I have never once had actual FOMO as a result. I do not compare myself to the very top of _anything_ I am farming because no matter where you look - MF or not - there is absolutely no way in hell to keep up with those people because they just have the means to play the game the way they do. Billy plays for 12 hours a day. Steve plays for 5 hours a day. Each hour they make the same amount. Billy still makes way more because Billy is playing the game for 7 more hours a day. This is not taking into account that Billy is also probably playing at an insane efficiency rate compared to Steve because he just plays more.
@kooshappreciator4773
3 ай бұрын
Mf is fine, everyone who understands smth in the game will say that. The real problem comes from unbalanced op strats, which then could be abused by party play or 0.1% who finds out about it before anyone else. If there was no meatsacks shaper touch 2 mods rare or op but insanely rare curation scarab, t0 wouldnt cost this low.
@TsuneoMai
3 ай бұрын
The problem was it affected conversion so it was waaay more than 50%. I played mf my friend not it was a lot more than that. Sure since they removed most conversions its not such a big issue anymore. But they could still just remove mf and make more build versitality by that. And it would aswell help economy if more cool rings are needed and boots those were important craft slots. And they are just gone!!! Nubuck boots ventors...boring. why not just add 30-50% more loot? so our time is more valued. Without limiting builds to 3 gear items because the rest is locked by mf. Mf is time min maxing. So it sucks its different for ppl. Especially groups who get insane quant rarity. And farm trillions of divines. Just check rmt stock once. 300 000 divines? Yeah say hi to mf grp play 😂
@pedrolopa2
3 ай бұрын
You dont understand why people have a problem with MF. MF is terrible for the game because it destroys build diversity, as most build can't run that much mf and therefore straight up get less loot for same content. It is completly different from sanctum or barrels, which are currency strats, not modifications on how you build your char. People don't want to have to make their character feel shitty or have less loot which also feels shitty. So yeah, deleting MF would be good for the game.
@julianthegreat4995
3 ай бұрын
Mf its okey but when you say the gane is easy what you actually mean? Of course if u dump all your life into something it will become easy, if you are a casual you will just follow someone with more free time than you to play the game. In a character building game youve to build like others do just because you dont have the time to make your own. I think is stupid.
@zoroter3657
3 ай бұрын
or maybe it's not a problem that game is too easy, but bows are so op :D. +2 projs from tree, 2x rolls on bow + quiver mods and the best clear skill
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Except MF DD is like 1/10th the price and has more dmg then a bow skill. Of course the clear is worse, but if bows were removed tomorrow you could easily play DD MF into BV MF with 0 problems.
@zoroter3657
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun well it's other thing that for some reason DD wasn't nerfed, but buffed with more spectres and better spectres from t17 corpses.... Btw were you experimenting with HH after nerfs vs Mageblood? Mageblood seems better for barrel farming (more ms).
@revzics
3 ай бұрын
the only point i consider bullshit is : how is having goldwyrm, ventor and simplex (which has crit multi) 80% dps loss ??? what godly rares allows you to have "8 to 10 times the damage" ?
If you cant see how 2 mirror rings + mirror amulet can enhance your dmg like that then idk man
@revzics
3 ай бұрын
still no useful answers... no multimirror ring (one, not ringS) and amulet can 10x the dps in this current setup. what is this delusion? the most i could replicate in pob with his gear + even tripple synth (which are not even available) is at most 3x. be reasonable, not fanboy'ing
@avgfinnishdude
3 ай бұрын
@@revzics change to omni, whole tree maybe adorned and all the jewels with 3 synth and 1 corruption mod and add some kind of stacking to the build.. I dont see why he couldnt change other gear if he gets those slots open as most of the rest gear dont contribute to quant anyways
@revzics
3 ай бұрын
@@avgfinnishdude will give it a try thanks for tips
@mihneaandrei5104
3 ай бұрын
What is the best strategy for T16 atm ? Tkz
@LovelyCooK
3 ай бұрын
Probably farming T17 maps as they go for 0.8+ div a pop
@sqwert654
3 ай бұрын
The issue this luege is instant deaths on some maps
@c-tothefourth4879
3 ай бұрын
Build or skill issue
@sqwert654
3 ай бұрын
@@c-tothefourth4879 must be 75 all resists 3.2k health...
@sqwert654
3 ай бұрын
@@Toxickys yes but have 88lvl bladestorm and 88 lightning builds with the same issue lol
@c-tothefourth4879
3 ай бұрын
@@sqwert654 That's literally nothing
@Whaller100
3 ай бұрын
I would say MF is not healthy for the game due to one reason - let me compare it to bossing last league. If you did not run uber bosses (compared to normal ones), you were loosing out money no matter what. You needed to squeeze out that little extra for it to really be profitable. If you want to run most juiced maps now - for example Div card farming, not having MF will make it more prone to loss and way more RNG. MF basically enables most high-end strategies, as cost of the map opening on those already has "MF" calculated in it
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
Saying it enables most high end strategies is just factually wrong though. Usually MF just enables one strategy, in this case it's the shaper-allflame curation strat. But is missing out on one farm all that big of a deal? Is it any different then say missing out on an ultimatum or expedition farm because your character isn't built for it?
@Whaller100
3 ай бұрын
@@Fubgun Missing out on a farm is not THAT bad this league, as T17 maps are insanely profitable no matter what, so that brought the gap closer together, but if you compare MF strategies to non-MF ones in last leagues, you were missing out on a lot. Even throwing in those two Ventor's on last league on Fulcrum build meant huge difference in loot. Sure, dropping 50 divines instead of 40 does not look like that much, but it adds up over time a lot
@Fubgun
3 ай бұрын
@@Whaller100 You were only "missing out" if you were trying to do the exact same farm though. Last league valdos were either equal or more profit then MF. In tota league sanctum was pretty much equal currency/hr and also didn't require MF gear. I agree it adds up and if your point is "I don't like how I make less currency for the doing the same farm" then sure, but this would be true regardless if MF wasn't in the game as I point out in the video. If MF doesn't exist, then the meta just revolves around speed (which it already does) and unless you play the fastest char then you would also be "missing out". Theres always going to be something to blame
@whatiswinrate
3 ай бұрын
Bro I did MF in the first 9 days of affliction and then I farmed uber Sirius. Uber Sirius was much more profitable than MF. Pls stop complaining about MF is broken, it wasn't. The league mechanic was broken. Ppl like you should start to think and stop talking shit.
@k1ngjam3s67
3 ай бұрын
I beleive they should remove party play from the game, make it SSF but with trade. Make a party league, that has higher standards.
@nemo9913
3 ай бұрын
Typical streamer behavior - is trying to setup a play style for everyone based on "ego".
@hoangyamides1403
3 ай бұрын
the problem have never about MF being another kind of endgame chase for minmax player or not, but the fact is that everything is rng. If rng comes alongside nerf to your actual character like ventor where to only reduce your res, then it would have been an acceptable trade offs for minmax charas to want to minmax even more to compenstate this nerf to get more loot.But the fact is that it doesnt, its RNG rolling where you can just buy the most perfect ventor roll that doesnt punish you but give you stats and res for 60 divs on the market and get a thousand more loots without punishing your character whatsoever.
@warriorking9381
3 ай бұрын
MF sucks this league 1- unique items worthless 2- glittring scarab which give u 100% quant and i think mf is only good if u doing curation strat
@voodoo1069
3 ай бұрын
Personally my 2 reasons for disliking MF is one I think the gear is super un interesting and ruins the idea of an ARPG for me which is trying to grow stronger with every resource you have. MF gear forces you to give up power for more drops which I understand some people find very interesting just not for me. Second reason is it heavily effects the prices of some mapping strats that look like a ton of fun but if you don't use MF gear they either are not profitable or you are way more effected by dry spells early on in attempting them. Which can really kill wanted to even attempt them because who wants to put everything into something just to go bust and either have to start from the bottom again or quit. Do enjoy watching other people that do it get excited for all the crazy ness but I think it ruins the game long term for everyone not interest in that play style but I for sure could be wrong. Also I think stuff like Horned scarab of glittering is maybe a more interesting way to do MF make conditional things that are not gear that give you MF. We have the speed one could make a slow one as well like remove a ton of monsters from the map make them mini bosses and give them simpler effects of item drops.
@ThorvaldtM
3 ай бұрын
MF is a scapegoat for people who don't understand how the game works. Personally I love the concept of MF but I do have to say that power creep removed the drawback from MF - which was losing player power.
@Samariini
3 ай бұрын
PagMan
@enoughfornow7310
3 ай бұрын
Am I watching a Belton`s video? Waterfall. Not a word about the party. Seriously Fubgun? Players cannot understand that party MF and solo MF are 2 different things. Do something good and educate your audience about those who are killing the economy after the 1st week of the league.
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