One correction. Italy did in fact have the skills and capabilities to weld armor vehicles, what they did not have was enough trained individual to weld both ships and tanks, so they chose ships.
@toa_cracau4286
2 жыл бұрын
Which is kinda understandable tbh, but it certainly didn’t help the army in any way
@lolloblue9646
11 ай бұрын
Yup, Britain had the same issue, hence why the first Crusaders were riveted while new welders were being trainer
@gordonmcinnes8328
2 жыл бұрын
Good to see you defend the Italian soldiers, the common soldier who often pays with his life deserves recognition for his valour and achievement regardless of their nationality.
@knoll9812
Жыл бұрын
Other countries had heroes Italy had martyrs
@dantecafarelli
2 жыл бұрын
I am deeply grateful to David Willey for this very objective and balanced review. It serves well the thousands of Italian tankers that died in these machines. And it well balances the smear that the likes of Liddel-Hart have piled up on our armed forces. Grazie.
@TheBob3759
2 жыл бұрын
Vive il Duce.
@dantecafarelli
Жыл бұрын
@@TheBob3759 I would check the spelling. If you try to offend people...at least get it right...
@FinsburyPhil
2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy these longer Tank Chats with David Willey - the context is fascinating and paints a clearer picture of why things were like they were. Of course I still also enjoy Davis Fletcher's shorter, more technical vignettes too. Great to have both.
@WeirdSeagul
2 жыл бұрын
I think they could combine them. David with the history and use and then Fletcher with his experience if he has driven them or has anecdotes
@thatfriggingbathroom2656
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, I love it that we get both.
@polygondwanaland8390
2 жыл бұрын
@@WeirdSeagul They should bring over Chieftan to do the insides 🤣
@MrSGL21
2 жыл бұрын
@@thatfriggingbathroom2656 they complement each other
@douglasparkinson4123
2 жыл бұрын
fletcher used to do longer ones as well, now its only the 5-10 minutes ones. i worry that he is getting old.
@wikikomoto
2 жыл бұрын
thank you for dispelling these horrific misconceptions of Italy during the war
@eze417
2 жыл бұрын
The M13/40 actually had rather good firepower for a tank in the first years of the war, but its mobility and protection left much to be desired.
@brunobacelli5389
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for a deep and well-balanced exposition about Italian tanks.
@Simon_Nonymous
2 жыл бұрын
Oh yes. Respect to those Italian crews, and respect to David W for the perspective he gives
@emmedigi89
2 жыл бұрын
23:30 Also, in 1940 Italian troops in Africa were mainly low quality troops with very poor training, equipment and discipline, mainly part of the Fascist party's militia. A true story to be told is that the Italian military, some say under the suggestion of Mussolini in person, decided to form units to be sent to Africa exclusively with people of the Southernmost regions of Italy (like Sicily and Calabria) just because they said that they were used to the heat of the Southern Mediterranean. The problem was that those regions had a shockingly low level of alphabetization (probably the lowest in Europe at that time) and therefore it was extremely difficult to find trained specialists for communications and vehicle operations, leading to the actual impossibility of operating an efficient communication network just because there were too few people that could actually read and write.
@lobsterbark
2 жыл бұрын
It really makes you wonder how the fascists ever got that far. The way they make decisions is just so stupid. They manage to use racism in new and creative ways you wouldn't think is even possible.
@AsbestosMuffins
2 жыл бұрын
@@lobsterbark the Italian Fascists were a bunch of Looney Toons
@alessandromazzini7026
2 жыл бұрын
that's fake, literally one of the elite unit in italian army (the anti-tank artillery and anti-aircraft artillery) were sent to africa and they were really good soldiers and very well trained, they were very precise and the allies feared them... what are you even bragging about? are you sure you are stating that right?
@emmedigi89
2 жыл бұрын
@@alessandromazzini7026 It’s you that are wrong. That happened after the disaster of Operation Compass, when finally the mechanised and armoured units were sent to Libya. Just be sure to read something else other than neo-fascist propaganda.
@55vma
2 жыл бұрын
To add some information from an Australian. My father was 18th Australian Infantry Brigade (7th Div). The Australians who fought the Italian Infantry thought they were rubbish. In conversations during the Seige of Tobruk and later in Australia, all these poor blokes wanted to do was drink some wine and oggle the girls. They had no interest in Mussolini's new Roman Empire. BUT the professional troops were a different story. They were hard nuts to crack. As an Australian soldier myself, I had the privilege of serving alongside first generation Australians of Italian immigrants. 🇦🇺🐨🇦🇺
@Tallorian
10 ай бұрын
Thank you for a great story about this tank's predecessors. As a kid I assembled plastic kits of this one, and another, an assault gun, on the same chassis - there weren't many WW2 plastic kits available in Russia in early 90s, but many were made under license from the Italian hobby company, hence the focus on Italy. When later I got my first T-34 kit, it was a surprise to see how tiny M14/41 was in comparison.
@hyfy-tr2jy
2 жыл бұрын
17:17 Pirelli tires on a tank....may wonders never cease!
@lappin6482
2 жыл бұрын
Well said, respect to those men that had to go to war in these things knowing you were outgunned in every way
@DJRDO
2 жыл бұрын
we Italians we have a saying , that , we were brave but unlucky !! Nice video i really enjoyed !!
@riccardo.pratesi
2 жыл бұрын
Impeccable analysis I have to congratulate you for his honesty and correctness in giving the right information, I agree on everything except on one topic the Italians had excellent steel but everything was destined for the navy, the choice to use the bolts was another problem , it is not that there was no lack of skills in naval production, welding was used and that it was cheaper for manufacturers who unfortunately profited at the expense of quality. Congratulations on the channel I did not know but I will include it among my favorites
@bmcg5296
Жыл бұрын
Could you even imagine what it sounds like inside any armoured vehicle, getting hit with any shell that bounces of it? It must have been horrifying and deafening.
@salvadorhurtado9988
2 жыл бұрын
Dear David: I wonder if you can make a video about the italian Ansaldo 75/42; a squat assault gun with a 75 mm. hull mounted short cannon. I understand they were quite succesful as a tank destroyer in the last stages of the desert war. i would love to know a little more about the contraption if possible. Thank you for the wonderful videos you make. Greetings!
@grantmaxfield7468
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, possibly the best tank chat yet. Love the longer format and explaining the full historical context of this specific tank. Would love to see some interior shots though, and the best would be David having a go at the Chieftain's "Oh bugger the tank is on fire" test for some of these tanks.
@gunnergoz
2 жыл бұрын
Well done. Kudos for a fair, unbiased and methodical analysis of the Italian tank corps and its role in early WW2.
@dynaflow666
2 жыл бұрын
OK, no more jokes like "Italian tanks do have six gears - one foward and five reverse."
@ddraig1957
2 жыл бұрын
The Matilda next to the M14 has a very optimistic nickname, Greyhound. Maybe it was a boy racer customised version. It does seem to have an extra box on the turret.Wonder what that is ?
@razor1uk610
2 жыл бұрын
Box ?? ..I think that is a cylindrical piece of armour acting as an upper cupola..
@princeofcupspoc9073
2 жыл бұрын
Does British dry humor escape you?
@kristofferjohansson3768
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I just love that irony. So British I assume.
@simonCX
2 жыл бұрын
Great video especially putting the context around the Italian army’s performance and that of their tanks. Share. Share. Share.
@賴志偉-d7h
Жыл бұрын
A little correction: Italy was founded in 1861, ten years before Germany.
@FrancoWang
2 жыл бұрын
對於對於義大利戰車與部隊在北非的戰事貢獻,這集談的極為客觀中肯,另人敬佩!
@misterp1694
2 жыл бұрын
👍 Interesting...Enjoyable Chat!👌
@Uzbug
2 жыл бұрын
I did a speech on the Italians in World War 2 for Toastmasters. Made me appreciate how difficult it was for them supplying their forces. A very good watch.
@aquadose7866
2 жыл бұрын
That 8 million bayonets claim by Mussolini was ridiculous, the Italian army of WW1 was larger and more well equipped than in WW2 for the times they served in
@kiloalphahotel5354
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the vid. Always great.
@enderjed2523
2 жыл бұрын
I remember seeing this Italian lunchbox at the museum last year!
@comentedonakeyboard
2 жыл бұрын
Musoloony had eight million bayonetts, he just forgott to fix Guns on them.
@timothyhouse1622
2 жыл бұрын
Italy was a minor power that strutted around like they were a major power. The only thing that made them a "major" was their navy.
@tiziocaio4561
2 жыл бұрын
airplanes were good too, but not enough of them
@aaronleverton4221
2 жыл бұрын
And they went to war in it without radar. Brand new ships that were already out of date. Mussolini's Italy was pretty much the '20s/'30s equivalent of China today. Totally focused on a glorious ancient past and blaming others for their "humiliation" while beating their chests about how powerful they are now.
@Alex-cw3rz
2 жыл бұрын
@@aaronleverton4221 In 1940 the only nation that had radar on almost all it's ships was the Royal Navy. Also they had more optics than any other ship making their fire exceptionally accurate they were also the 2nd beat trained navy on the planet with the best naval special forces. So I'd advise you too either delete or edit your misinformation espcially on a history channel. Your next comparison is just nonsencial.
@wellwell7950
2 жыл бұрын
@@aaronleverton4221 Radar was not common in 1940 🤦♂️ come on this is embarrassing their ships where very advanced, claiming they were because they didn't have something almost every other navy didn't have, is just factually incorrect.
@Alex-cw3rz
2 жыл бұрын
@@wellwell7950 I know I was baffled when I saw him say that no radar in 1940 makes your ship outdated, it shows a level of ignorance on basic naval history, I'm embarrassed that Aaron has such unearned confidence to say something as inaccurate as that.
@jamesgoacher1606
2 жыл бұрын
That was a very thoughtful video. I was trying hard to think of an Italians Tank Crew equivalent of WWI British Infarnty equivalent of the Lions led by Donkeys. There are some earlier disparaging comments below whose authors are obviously very brave wishing they could sit in a tin box and have somene shoot at them while they were wearing underwear filled with their brains. Replacing their brains with what would be coming out of the back of their underwear when the shooting started.
@luigiduca
2 жыл бұрын
Italian tanks were built with riveted armor plates not so much because Italy lacked the technology to weld them but with the idea that a pierced or broken armor plate could be easier replaced on the field if it was riveted than welded. Of course welding or casting posed major problems and it had needed investments the corrupt industrials weren't willing to do, but there was no lack of technical competence had they decided to go that way. The same reasoning was behind the suspension system: torsion bars are great but if they break they are a problem to replace under field conditions: much simpler with the boogies.
@samrobinson566
2 жыл бұрын
Laughed out loud at "Italian tanks are crap" 😂
@paulmarchlewski6354
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Luigi for that information, I never knew the 47 had a Heat shell available. I did know of the bravery of Italian anti-tank gunners who often waited till the enemy tank was only 30 or 40 yards away before opening fire, that takes some guts. This must have been before the heat round was issued obviously. However if one compares like with like the 2 pounder was a much better AT weapon, especialy with accuracy/penetration at longer ranges.
@neutronalchemist3241
2 жыл бұрын
Actually the 47mm HEAT didn't work that well, and soon the gun crews were advised to treat them as standard HE ammunitions. HEAT penetration depends HUGELY on the diameter of the charge, and 47mm is simply too narrow to have noticeable effects over a simple AP round. Same for the first iteration of the 75mm HEAT ("effetto pronto"), that had the fuze on the back of the charge (usual for artillery ammunitions, but not for HEAT charges, that must explode at exactly the right moment to be effective) while the second iteration ("effetto pronto speciale", with front fuze) had very good penetration. Instead the 100mm "effetto pronto", with back fuze, impressed even the Germans for its effectiveness on Soviet heavy KV tanks. The back fuze made it work like an HESH round, and the resulting spalling effect was more destructive than simply piercing a hole in the armor.
@chubbymoth5810
2 жыл бұрын
Great chat!
@ltjamescoopermason8685
2 жыл бұрын
I like building these smaller tanks in models but who possibly makes this particular model tank in 1/48 or 1/72 please ? At a push 1/35 thanks for the education with entertainment on yet another tank chat .
@riptidegaming8876
2 жыл бұрын
Please may we have a Jagdpanther tank chat. Very good video I have always found the m14/4 interesting
@Eagle-eye-pie
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve heard the main gun can penetrate a calzone, through and through, at 1000 meters. Terrifying.
@ulrichkalber9039
2 жыл бұрын
that is why the calzonians never went to war with italy.
@jon-paulfilkins7820
2 жыл бұрын
On paper, it is about on par with a 2pdr. On paper ;)
@Paciat
2 жыл бұрын
Boom! Calzone gone.
@Cervando
2 жыл бұрын
@@jon-paulfilkins7820 In the video he mentioned it was better than the British 2 pounder.
@luigiduca
2 жыл бұрын
In comparaison with the 2pdr it could fire also HE shells trading this feature with a slower muzzle velocity, so when no HEAT roinds were available, it couldn't penetrate as much armour as the 2pdr could.
@drmarkintexas-400
2 жыл бұрын
🏆🏆🏆👍🙏🇺🇲 Thank you for sharing
@MaclearieFarms
7 ай бұрын
The German army is cool but I choose while war gaming the Italians because they look cool and they have neat equipment and they have a cool history
@williamsnellen4901
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for great 👍 Info 🙏👍🇺🇸❤️🤩🤔👀😎☝️👏👌
@iannordin5250
2 жыл бұрын
The great irony of the man who believed himself to be the face of his nation's revitalization also being its biggest impediment in the conflict
@websitemartian
Жыл бұрын
2:43 Musolini footage
@frankguz55
2 жыл бұрын
Tri-motor, not triplanes (@ 15:58)
@albertofernandez2490
2 жыл бұрын
I alway wondered, why haven't they just produced Panzers II/III?
@jonsouth1545
Жыл бұрын
If this tank had came out in 1939 it would have been one of the best tanks in the world easily comparable to the early Pz III French tanks like the S35, M1 and M2 from the US or Russian tanks like the T-28 and far superior to several of the Japanese tanks.
@AFT_05G
Жыл бұрын
Yeah by the time Italy was operating this,Germans were already switched to long barreled Panzer IV variants.Americans were also introducing Shermans.
@beachcomberbob3496
Жыл бұрын
Ha ha. Italy invades Ethiopia. That was a devilishly sharpened piece of mango. Not really a near pier enemy, eh?
@jjsmallpiece9234
2 жыл бұрын
At 14:10 a British 2pdr gun is mentioned firing discarding sabot ammunition??? In 1940?? Even a 2pdr?? Never heard of a 2pdr firing DS ammunition.
@Stripedbottom
2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant, but I was a bit disappointed that there was absolutely no mention of this being inspired (some might say, copied) from the Vickers 6-ton and thus a "relative" of the Polish 7TP and the Soviet T-26; it's actually pretty obvious, just looking at it.
@staticnexus893
2 жыл бұрын
The Italians lacked any major resources to produce any type of tank production as well as knowledge in tank design. investing more into infantry, Artillery and AA capabilities would have been wiser for fortifying positions, bolstering defenses and holding city's and ports.
@christophersmith5691
2 жыл бұрын
The 47mm gun is the pre war Austrian Bohler anti tank gun and it was a good gun in the early WW2 period, used I think in Romania, and other places
@Paveway-chan
2 жыл бұрын
British propaganda is one of the most underappreciated parts of the war. It's their fault also, afaik, that this myth of Polish cavalry charging german tanks with lances still persists, among others
@cwjian90
2 жыл бұрын
That particular myth actually goes back to German and Soviet propaganda and writings from people like Guderian, which until the fall of the Iron Curtain were the only real perspectives on Fall Weiss available in English
@ThePsiclone
2 жыл бұрын
"Musaloony" hahaha possibly the most appropriate slip of the tongue in history. ( 5.10 )
@knoll9812
Жыл бұрын
Italian had no business being near a modern war
@epicexcalibur6445
2 жыл бұрын
We want more of squire also invite mark felton
@coreymerrill3257
2 жыл бұрын
All iron use is to be for engines, drive trains , and various arms. We are going to make wooden and stone tanks and dress them in giant silk ballistic vests. Lol
@Ace0Spades17
2 жыл бұрын
What’s the tank next to it?
@brianandjillianadamson5479
3 ай бұрын
It's a Matilda II
@mdellyd
2 жыл бұрын
Italian men are lovers, not fighters and the worse solders, but Germans LOVE war and fighting and make the best soldiers with Amercan's next being good at everything and Russian's are stoic and good on defense and blindly follow orders while Brits are good as long as Monty is not in charge of them because he was incompetent.
@jameshenderson4876
2 жыл бұрын
You just highlighting stereotypes for some satirical effect? Because obviously all that was rubbish.
@luigiduca
2 жыл бұрын
Can't you tell me any more clichées while I tune my mandoline?
@keithgarland3404
2 жыл бұрын
Does anyone know what has happened to the tank workshop diaries videos. Have the tank museum stopped producing them?
@thomashogan9196
2 жыл бұрын
While ordinary Italian soldiers no doubt did their best with what they had to work with, Mussolini by signing up as Hitler's toady resulted in a war effort that became a comedy of errors. From their humiliation in Greece to catastrophes in North Africa where they shot down their own Air Chief Marshal, Italo Balbo (which lead Goebbels to comment, "We didn't expect much of the Italians anyway"). Their fleet was crippled by British biplanes at Taranto, and their demoralized soldiers often surrendered en masse all of which invited a fair amount of derision. On the other hand, the world can rejoice that Italy didn't focus on producing 10 armored divisions supplied with Panzer IV's and supported by hundreds of Macci C.205 fighters. Europe might be very different today if they had.
@alamore5084
2 жыл бұрын
In fairness the M14 looks a decent tank. It has 5 forward gears and 15 reverse gears. Apologies I could not resist that.🤣
@gautamasakyamuni6688
2 жыл бұрын
I understand that, it's because you three neurons can only connect at times....
@alamore5084
2 жыл бұрын
@@gautamasakyamuni6688 Ouch!
@damiencrossley7497
Ай бұрын
Lazer pig didn't take anything while he was there did he?
@michaeltelson9798
2 жыл бұрын
The Italian mechanics worked wonders keeping these vehicles running in North Africa. “Iron Hulls, Iron Hearts” by Ian W. Walker gives examples, like at El Alamein that these mechanics actually increased the number of running vehicles before the defeat there. FIAT and its subsidiary companies had a near monopoly on equipment to all the military branches.
@TheBob3759
2 жыл бұрын
Read that book. It is an excellent account.
@RinoBellissimo
Жыл бұрын
Excellent Book!
@catlee8064
2 жыл бұрын
Looking at the state of WW II tanks it makes you realise how large a set of balls every tank crewman had to go to war in those things.
@michaelblaszkiewicz7283
2 жыл бұрын
So big that they can't buy underwear.
@dermax1254
2 жыл бұрын
The Caro Veloce drivers had bigger balls than the tank itself 🤣😂
@Paciat
2 жыл бұрын
Nah, the visibility was so poor they didnt know what are they going at.
@arron8131
2 жыл бұрын
Having to work in Armour occasionally, I will confirm that not much has changed in the intervening 70 years.
@fabamatic
2 жыл бұрын
You should be scared to crew a modern tank too
@alfredodallolio2599
2 жыл бұрын
Honesty, competence, reliable historical sources. Nothing more is asked and that's what I always find here. Thank you David.
@duke0salt717
2 жыл бұрын
I agree, you don't have to worry about Freeaboos, commieboos, or worse of all the Wehraboos. To speak of
@allanfoster6965
2 жыл бұрын
They are brilliant. Just lacking in dog content😁
@Twitchy1
2 жыл бұрын
In the middle of it at 14:09 he said firing British 2Pdr Armour piercing discarding sabot which is absolutely something they never did. These videos are really badly done.
@jimmydesouza4375
2 жыл бұрын
Or as another example to echo Twitchy somewhat, he says "That's why they go to the right" when describing the rise of Italian fascism, when fascism is a form of socialism (so left (though arguably socialism doesn't properly fit on the left/right spectrum)). But he says right because it has been a left wing thing to accuse the right wing of being fascist since the 50's. It would be more correct for him to just say "That's why they go to supporting fascism".
@wideyxyz2271
2 жыл бұрын
@@Twitchy1 Available ammunition[13][14][15] Type Model Shot/shell Round weight Projectile weight Filler Muzzle velocity Armour-piercing, tracer Shell AP/T Mk IT Shell 2.375 lb (1.077 kg) 11 drachms (19 g) Lyddite 2,650 ft/s (810 m/s) Armour-piercing, tracer AP/T Mk I Shot 2.04 kg (4.5 lb) 1.08 kg (2.4 lb) 792 m/s (2,600 ft/s) Armour-piercing, tracer, increased charge APHV/T Shot 2.04 kg (4.5 lb) 1.08 kg (2.4 lb) - 853 m/s (2,800 ft/s) Armour-piercing, capped, ballistic cap, tracer APCBC/T Mk I Shot 2.22 kg (4.9 lb) 1.22 kg (2.7 lb) - 792 m/s (2,600 ft/s) Armour-piercing, composite non-rigid (used with the Littlejohn adaptor) AP/CNR (APSV) Mk I Shot ? 1.037 lb (0.470 kg) - 1,280 m/s (4,200 ft/s) Armour-piercing, composite non-rigid (used with the Littlejohn adaptor) AP/CNR (APSV) Mk II Shot ? 1.234 lb (0.560 kg) - 1,189 m/s (3,900 ft/s) Practice, tracer[6] Shot, Practice, Mk IT Flathead Shot 2.375 lb (1.077 kg) - 2,000 ft/s (610 m/s) High-explosive, tracer HE/T Mk II Shell 1.86 kg (4.1 lb) 0.86 kg (1.9 lb) 3 oz (85 g) TNT or RDX 792 m/s (2,600 ft/s)
@michaelnaven213
2 жыл бұрын
I never doubted the bravery of the Italian army, just the Italian weaponry.
@mikepette4422
2 жыл бұрын
and their leaders
@ray.shoesmith
2 жыл бұрын
Their hearts weren't in WW2
@Perkelenaattori
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikepette4422 Accurate assessment. The only excellent Italian commanders were Messe, Guillet & Frattini. Their navy was very decent though but it suffered from terrible ammunition quality & lack of radar.
@CaptainGrief66
2 жыл бұрын
@@Perkelenaattori Not terrible, just unreliable, and they had radars but not long range targeting radars nor radar guided individual weapon systems
@CaptainGrief66
2 жыл бұрын
Italian weaponry wasn't subpar for the most part with _some_ lacking exceptions, the tank force was the most underwhelming and less developed branch, but small arms were comparable to their contemporaries, with exceptions.
@Italian_Military_Archives
2 жыл бұрын
You have done a great service with this video, exposing facts and dispelling wartime myths!
@Max-lf3tx
2 жыл бұрын
Basically everyone at the start of the war had fairly poor tanks by comparison to mid/late war designs. The issue is Italy didn't have the manufacturing capability to get rid of those designs quickly enough, where as everyone else did.
@salvadorvizcarra769
2 жыл бұрын
Since the appearance of the RPG-7 (USSR, in 1961), the biggest Balls have been needed to drive a Battle Car. Today, the Tank is an obsolete weapon. Today, the Tank is only used for military parades or for museum halls. Today, with the development of Anti-Tank weapons, these Junks have become pathetic targets to Eliminate... And they always Eliminate them. Only Target.
@MrRedRye
2 жыл бұрын
@@salvadorvizcarra769 Tell that to the Challenger 2 operating near Basra that survived over 70 RPG hits.
@salvadorvizcarra769
2 жыл бұрын
@@MrRedRye Propaganda.
@odileelido8407
2 жыл бұрын
For fun, check out Italian artillery production rates. All the artillery heavier than a 75 mm mountain gun were produced in numbers of a few hundred each. The industrial base was limited, though in fairness also restricted by a lack of raw materials. The Italians were very dependent on imports and the Allied naval blockade and the German appropriation of the wealth of conquered nations forced them to largely rely on domestic resources.
@silmarian
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, but some countries had adequate tanks by early-war standards and some did not. Tactics and logistics also varies widely, the latter proving decisive imo.
@ulpiotraiano3374
2 жыл бұрын
Finally, a bit of onesty from British side, the italian forces still suffer from the narrative of WW2, we lost it was inevitable, the only thing that wasn't missing in the italian forces was bravery, but we always been accused of cowardice by enemy and friends.
@maispao
2 жыл бұрын
Read ‘Iron Hulls and Iron Hearts’ by Ian Walker. This gives a great insight into Italy’s armoured doctrine at the time. I Might add there was no lack of courage from the Italians in ww2.
@oryanhill1135
2 жыл бұрын
I've never doubted their Courage I always though it was kinda like the French. Brave men being stuck in vehicles that aren't well adapted to the times. Unlike the French they can't modernize well as the lack of Industrial capabilities
@chadmysliviec8449
2 жыл бұрын
There certainly was a strong lack of courage and a lot of cowardice in the Italian army. During the American invasion of Sicily and lower Italy, most Italian soldiers happily surrendered instead of fighting to protect their own country, their own people, and their own families. Very cowardly. The Germans fought way harder to protect Italy than the Italian soldiers did. Those Italians should have been court martialed for high treason. The Italians were just as cowardly as the French army. Neither of those armies even attempted to defend their own country. Pathetic.
@oryanhill1135
2 жыл бұрын
@@chadmysliviec8449 I was saying that a lot of men died fighting for their country
@lorenzo4408
2 жыл бұрын
@@chadmysliviec8449 british propaganda enjoyer detected
@howarddavis2281
2 жыл бұрын
@@chadmysliviec8449 Maybe they were protecting their country. By not protecting fascism.
@matteomaffei5519
9 ай бұрын
As an Italian, i thank you for bringing some justice to the Italian WWII Army by presenting a broader picture and putting things in perspective. Thank you for being respectful to those who, even though joining the wrong side, fought and sacrificed themselves for their country. Italians were not cowards, they fought how they could with what they had available, including abysmally bad leadership and poor equipment.
@timbooth3020
Жыл бұрын
I didn’t realize the economic situation in Italy before WW2. Its a good history lesson as well as a lesson about tanks. Thanks!
@earlt.7573
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this, a fair take on this issue. Italian soldiers did well and made the best of what they had to work with. They were not the "cowards" or slackers that common myth and propaganda has portrayed. A good man or a good crew takes what weapons or vehicles they are issued, and despite the faults carry on and do the best they can.
@michaeltelson9798
2 жыл бұрын
Read “Iron Hulls, Iron Hearts” by Ian W. Walker about the 3 Italian armor divisions which were small in size, equivalent to a British armored brigade. The Ariete Division was part of the Afrika Korps in fact and was basically the only fully mechanized unit in North Africa. Ariete was the only fully functional of the 3, getting replacement armor by taking from the other 2. The infantry units lacked organic transport which was why they surrendered once abandoned in a retreat, no food or water and hundred of miles to friendly lines.
@LazyLifeIFreak
2 жыл бұрын
Misinformation and bias has done more harm to the Italian tank reputation during WW2 than anything else. I'm praising the fighting men's courage, their tenacity to fight with the equipment they were given, like every other fighting men in warfare.
@StuSaville
2 жыл бұрын
Italian tankers equipped with obsolete R-35's fought incredibly bravely against the Americans during the Battle of Gela in Sicily
@kyle857
2 жыл бұрын
Their equipment was rubbish. I've never heard the soldiers themselves were not competent fighters.
@GuyInBlackClothes
10 ай бұрын
I appreciate seeing more who understands the clear bias was ridiculous. Especially when most use little to no knowledge of actual tank armor. Italy had great designs and it shows with the M15/42 and pretty much all the Semoventes.
@jon-paulfilkins7820
2 жыл бұрын
I certainly agree it was about 1942 being turning point, everyone was getting better kit, everyone but the Italians, they were fighting battles in 1943 with kit better suited to 1940.
@PassportToPimlico
2 жыл бұрын
Brittle Italian armour vs tank buster Hurricanes at that point.
@mikepette4422
2 жыл бұрын
well they got better stuff too it's just that their upgrade in 42 was equivalent to what everyone else had in 1940...yikes !!
@neutronalchemist3241
2 жыл бұрын
That Italians used three engined bombers because they had not powerful engines is a mith. The Vickers Wellington had two 1050 hp engines. The Bristol Beaufort, two 1060 hp engines. The Bristol Blenheim, two 920 hp engines. The SM.79 had three 950 hp engines (later equipped with "etilizzatori", an equivalent of the MW50, to have a temporary 100hp boost, to disengage after torpedoing attacks). The Cant Z.1007 had three 1000 hp engines. The BR.20 had two 1030 hp engines. The performances of the twin engined Br.20 compare very well with those of the Wellington and Blenheim. The Br.20 was faster and with an higher ceiling than the Wellington, although with a lower bomb load, and had performances in line with those of the Blenheim, but with a better bomb load. In 1939 had been omologated the 1500 hp Piaggio P.XII. That used standard 87octane fuel. Probably the best radial engine that used standard fuel up to that point. The Italians used two models of three engined bombers simply because they were faster that way, and could still fly with an engine failure, while, for a two engined bomber, an engine failure meant a long descent. That's why they were preferred to the Br.20 too.
@filmaelculdetomare
2 жыл бұрын
Finally "ANSALADO" is now correctly pronounced as ANSALDO ;)
@francescogreggio6712
2 жыл бұрын
Life in the Italian military (all branches) during WWII was essentially an exercise in getting shafted, repeatedly, by Mussolini for his own political miscalculations.
@andrewclayton4181
2 жыл бұрын
The British army used a lot of captured Italian tanks, because they had acquired them, and because their own had serious reliability issues, were broken down and not available. The British crews were not any happier about being in them than the Italians had been. It is another reason why Rommel had success when he showed up.
@SCscoutguy
2 жыл бұрын
I was surprised he did not mention the Australian's using captured M13/40's at Tobruk.
@micumatrix
2 жыл бұрын
They all used each others equpment ;)
@allangibson2408
2 жыл бұрын
@@SCscoutguy The Australians also used the Italian tanks when they invaded Syria.
@tomhenry897
2 жыл бұрын
They used them out of desperation
@Military_Clips_Restored
2 жыл бұрын
Our tankers, considering all the limitations, really did wonders. And Italy as a whole country, considering the industrial base as shown here, did MIRACLES to fight from 1940 to 1943 and to have battleships like the Littorio class and excellent other ships as well, not to mention aircraft... Sadly the Army couldn't really keep up.. great video as always! I would love to go back there one day! Was there a few years ago... it's the Meccah for tankers lovers for sure!
@johnsceenah8839
2 жыл бұрын
And... there's a little secret not many people know about... Italian Navy armour, viceversa, was considered the best in the world in 1940, with the highest quality and way ahead of its german counterparts. Search it up... Nathan Okun's analysis of WW2 battleships armour. Also... Many of the Navy armour was all welded, just check photographs of Vittorio Veneto battleships and others, contrary to other BBs of other countries. Impressive how advanced the naval research was compared to the army ones... one of the little known facts of WW2 that slowly slowly are coming out during the last years.
@michaeld.uchiha9084
2 жыл бұрын
But the Navy training wasnt better. Italia had a way stronger fleet then Britain and they still lost badly.
@Military_Clips_Restored
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaeld.uchiha9084 The British Navy was way ahead of Regia Marina ... and they had radar. Training of italian navy was actually very good; only its leaders weren't as aggressive as they were afraid to lose any ship which couldn't be replaced. Some italian commanders were plainly HORRIBLE to say the least....The Royal Navy though was still the best of the best in the world at that time, undeniable... But yet, look at the Battle of Harpoon convoy; when used right, the italian royal navy was very effective
@chrisabraham8793
2 жыл бұрын
I believe a museum recently built a working replica of a Fiat 2000. Another great video as always, thanks David.
@danielefabbro822
8 ай бұрын
Just search it on KZitem.
@nickbrough8335
2 жыл бұрын
I recommend looking at Italian War memorials if you ever go to Italy. You'll probably be surprised to see the level of Italian casualties on the Eastern front and the comparison with WW1.
@basileerla
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the pronunciation corrections! Got a nice pic of this tank with my fiance beside from our visit in the museum, goes perfectly alongside the one with her granpa in uniform :)
@clementbruera
2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting and well made, but I just want to point our that the armor/metal part is wrong. In fact the quality of Italian armor was extremely good on ships (the battleship TERNI armor was among the bests in the world) and Italian were capable with the welding technology (the firsts Carro Veloce were welded, some of the last too). The big issue was with costs, it costs less to rivet and bolt than welding. Also, it was assumed (and ultimately proven wrong) that bolting and riveting plates could be replaced easily when a tank was damaged.
@princeofcupspoc9073
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's more "does Fiat want to train workers and change production," not so much "Fiat doesn't know how to do it." See Chrysler for the same issue in the US.
@theodorsebastian4272
2 жыл бұрын
I really like the Italian 47mm gun,In my opinion the best Tank/Anti-tank gun of the early war period with decent HE shell,decent penetraion,small size and low weight.
@neutronalchemist3241
2 жыл бұрын
Not having the shield made it the biggest AT piece that could be towed by hand in case of necessity, and the small signature made it ideal for ambushes and setting kill zones. Obviously not having the shiled had its downsides, but it could be usually replaced by placing the cannon behind low walls and embankments. Also the shield of field guns protected only against small caliber weapons, and made the gunner even more exposed against heavy fire (see for example the gunner of the 2-pdr, how much above the barrel of the gun had to seat to aim).
@stewartellinson8846
2 жыл бұрын
An excellent presentation which is both detailed and thoughtful. I wholeheartedly agree with the comments about the bravery of the Italian fighting man, and this is acknowledged (perhaps grudgingly) by some writers of the period and in some contemporary comments by allied commanders. Even Rommel acknowledged the loss of the Ariete armoured division with comments about their bravery at second El Alamein. With regard to the quality of armour, the Italians could make very good armour and their battleship armour was as good as any contemporary so the poor quality of tank armour may be another consequence of the army's third division status when compared to their other two services. Once again, many thanks for an excellently presented and thoughtfully worded video that puts the Italian war effot into its proper context, one which is often forgotten or deliberately ignored.
@triumphbobberbiker
4 ай бұрын
First time in my life that I see a British tank expert discussing Italian tanks and employing the word 'respect'. Who is this gentleman?
@nonick969
2 жыл бұрын
Finally a documentary where a foreigner doesn't play Spiderman's theme Funniculì Funniculà while laughing at italy. Thank you
@davidbutterfield2949
2 жыл бұрын
Very good insight David, different from what we’d always been led to believe. 👍🏻🇦🇺
@roadsweeper1
2 жыл бұрын
David Willey is by far my favourite for the tank videos! Usually longer, and includes more detail, particularly about the history and background of them, Where Fletcher tends to just stick to the technical details. Had a lovely long chat with David Willey while we there for Tiger day in Sept 21 about the tortoise! :) Would love to see that behemoth running!
@clockmonkey
2 жыл бұрын
One of my Granddads' was at the first siege of Tobruk where he fought the Italians and Germans. When you are being shelled or shot at, bombed or mortared its a bit hard to differentiate which Nationality is doing it and whether you think someone is a first rate or second rate Soldier hardly matters.
@steffenwurster352
2 жыл бұрын
David Willey made an important point by looking at the weak economical base of Italy ( See The rise and fall of the great powers, Kennedy). But I always wonder, how the Italians managed these huge offensives at the Capuretto-front over years. They had not more steel, coal, gas at this time, had they?
@giovannifoulmouth7205
2 жыл бұрын
M13/40 (lll) is my favourite tank in War Thunder, it doesn't have the best gun but it has good armor and mobility. I can rack up 10+ kills in one match if I really focus. Excellent tank.
@stardawg9964
2 жыл бұрын
I'm enjoying listening to these tank chats that little mention German automotive engineering. It's good to hear stories of nations who had to innovate in an effort to keep up and sometimes surprise greater industrial powers.
@shazaris7330
2 жыл бұрын
I love my little M14/41s in Mid War Flames of War (not exactly a simulation but hey ho). They always pull more weight than such a small under armoured tank should, plenty of MG fire and a reasonable gun has seen them stop offensives from superior tanks and swarms of infantry. My regular opponents have learnt to, if not fear, at least respect the Italian Carristi!
@Chad83714
2 жыл бұрын
This episode has been a historical eye-opener. Thank you.
@amerigo88
2 жыл бұрын
Terrifying to imagine oneself in this Italian tank on the Eastern Front facing the T-34 and KV-1.
@Paciat
2 жыл бұрын
Yes the stupidity of doing it would be terrifying. You dont engage a target that you cant destroy. Also were there any M14/41 on the eastern front, or are you just assuming they were there cause Italians were there.
@michaeltelson9798
2 жыл бұрын
Only the L6/40 was sent to the Eastern Front, although there was on paper 3 armored divisions based on the binary system, they were only the size of a British armored brigade. The Ariete Division that was working with Rommel and took up most of the tank production. The other two divisions were basically skeletons that were not fleshed out.
@mikepette4422
2 жыл бұрын
imagine the poor Romanians driving to battle against the USSR in a Renault R35 tank !! Now thats just suicide
@amerigo88
2 жыл бұрын
@@Paciat I thought this, or something very similar, was the primary Italian tank and would have served with Italian units on the Eastern Front. Come to think of it, this tank would have been pretty awful against a Churchill, M-3 Grant/Lee, or an M-4 Sherman in N. Africa. Outarmored and outgunned with rivets ready to fly inside.
@TheArklyte
2 жыл бұрын
Matilda has almost the same armor as KV-1. So they were royally screwed from the very beginning.
@earlyriser8998
2 жыл бұрын
I think the economic insight is an excellent 'lens' to view the tanks and Italy's resources.
@wolfehoffmann2697
2 жыл бұрын
If you think this one was good, you should check out The Chieftan's video on the Development of Italian Armoured Doctrine. He goes into some of the other aspects of the social and economic handicaps the Italians were working with when developing an armoured force.
@battlejitney2197
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for dispelling many of the misconceptions about the Italian army and armor in WWII. Great video.
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