Always wanted to know what the inside of one of these compressors looked like. Thanks for taking the time to do this video.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment!
@jeremyvoshage2410
Жыл бұрын
Above and beyond as always! Loved the autopsy and thanks for sharing. I was waiting for you to fabricate a new piston and bring this kid back to life.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Jeremy! If I had more time, I could have tried to make made a new wrist pin and rod. Interestingly, I do have another compressor similar to this one which failed in a different manner. Again; time being a factor I might try something in the future.
@adamw225
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoy these type of your videos you’re always clear on what you’re doing and what’s happening/happened. I still had hope until you showed us the scoring in the cylinder but it was absolutely worth your time to try and save it.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Adam. I was thinking the same thing, that I could use a rod and wrist pin from another unit; until seeing the bore damage. However, the frame of the compressor would be good from another unit if it had a good rod and pin in it, for sure.
@compu85
Жыл бұрын
Btw, your remote control box is super slick. Nice to not get an arc flash right in your face!
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I plan to incorporate the 2-phase converter motor into it and put it in a cart style of device in the future.
@snugglebunnyhaven7258
Жыл бұрын
Always enjoy watching your videos of things like this. As now I guess an old ACR tech, I enjoyed working with these things. Many times i've tossed out compressors but now see these things might be the better ones to try to preserve. So much of the newer compressors are made cheap. Those older Tecumseh compressors were workhorses. They don't even make that design of shell anymore i don't think. I wish I could find old refrigeration systems again. When I was a teen Id raid old appliance stores where they would sit out the old appliances behind and i'd ask and go nab all the parts and pieces i wanted. Now you can't really do that. Would love to find where I can nab the small commercial systems with the cooling fans.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment! Glad the videos are what you're looking for. They don't make this style shell any more; I think you're right. The new ones are stamped differently so that the top and bottom slide into one another, whereas these have a flange. The flange can more easily be separated and re-welded than the newer ones. It is frustrating that you can't get parts from scrap appliances any more. However, I think it's regional as much as anything. Here, you can often find places which allow you to get stuff; especially if you know them. I'm extremely fortunate that a friend of mine has rental properties and he has an acreage where old appliances are taken and kept for parting-out.
@fordmuscleluis9710
Жыл бұрын
Nice scrap yard find glad you got the compressor I enjoyed it
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@2packs4sure
Жыл бұрын
That was fun ! David I think you're at least partially right about the condenser fan motor because when the head pressure went through the roof that could be what finally pushed the flawed wrist pin to let go.. It might have been running like that for much longer than we would imagine and might have continued to run like that for much longer than we would imagine as long as it wasn't overstressed by excessive head pressure....
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! That's a very likely thing, as well; about the fan. One reason I can't confirm for sure the fan was bad during the machine's operating life is because it was stored outside after it stopped working, and the fan motor could have taken on rain and rusted up. It may have worked before the compressor failed. Another possibility is that the design was somewhat compromized. There is a chance that the surface area of the wrist pin was too small, so they put extra oil grooves in an attempt to get service life, at the expense of strength. That could have been done to avoid the cost of a pressed-in brass bushing in the rod eye. The compressor could have no-telling-how-many operating hours on it. Hard to know!
@gcanyon3114
20 күн бұрын
I love that you kept upping the power. I was like no, he's gonna stop... no wait, he's gonna keep going. 🤣
@ronaldeisel5927
Жыл бұрын
Hi David: excellent failure analysis!
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Than you Ronald!
@Rev.RatsRides
Жыл бұрын
Always enjoy your videos my friend. 👍👍 very informative and well presented.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate that!
@kc5gym
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting failure analysis (I would not have done that). Oddly enough, I worked as an auto mechanic for the first half of my career, and an old boss had a vacuum pump made out of a very similar compressor. The two halves of the shell had steel flanges to bolt it together. Thanks for sharing, Marko
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
That's interesting! I wonder if that was a rotary compressor? They had something similar to a Whirlpool / Seeger rotary unit which was used for a vacuum pump. The biggest issue with them for use in custom work, new builds, and restoration is the vacuum levels obtainable. When you have old or wet systems (like I deal with) it takes very low micron vacuum levels and heat to separate the moisture from the oil and result in a reliable system. Single stage pumps, or repurposed compressors just can't make the ultimate vacuum level, nor can they run continuously without overheating, like a good laboratory grade pump can.
@kc5gym
Жыл бұрын
@@davida1hiwaaynet I am fairly sure it was a reciprocating compressor. I know what you mean about wet systems, I had a 250 ton carrier flowtronic with a few ruptured evaporator tubes I was able to ring and pin them, less than 10%, but evacuation took many days, gallons of pump oil, and a cold trap.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
@@kc5gym That does sound like a mess! I was on one large project built in Korea; where the builder hydro tested the refrigerant lines with water. They weakly blew them out with air and then evacuated. But, it was cold and the water froze in the lines. This facility had 30 or more small and medium systems on it. They trashed pallet loads of compressors in the months following.
@chetleonard169
Жыл бұрын
excellent analysis. I am learning so much. Thank You
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment! Glad you enjoyed it.
@bamaslamma1003
Жыл бұрын
Interesting to see one fail in the exact opposite way as the other two (Minute Maid machine and lab fridge), where they were mechanically sound but had burnt stator windings.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
It is! I think the others which failed the winding were victims of faulty start relays keeping the start winding in circuit too long. This one had a good relay but otherwise.....
@connerlabs
Жыл бұрын
Love me a good teardown and failure analysis!
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks and I'm happy you enjoyed it!
@bolig84
Жыл бұрын
I stumbled across your channel when I was trying to fix a 12v battery charger. With that video I was able to fix the charger, and I’ve been subscribed since. I enjoy the videos and how you troubleshoot and diagnose issues. You can tell you know your stuff because you explain it so simply, which is the sign of someone who is a master at their craft. Thanks again.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. I really appreciate your comments.
@georgeb8328
Жыл бұрын
I used to work in a cooler shop as a general technician, a lot of times these being good or bad depends on the disposition of the cooler shop. Mine had a tech who was certified in it and would test them himself but some times we'd just toss them if they were old. A lot of times we could convert them to 13
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment George! That is so true. It depends on what sort of attitude and policy they have. In general, I try to save all the older low-speed compressors such as the "large body" Tecumseh and the upright "pancake" (I hate that term) Kelvinator and Tecumseh compressors. Those seem to hardly ever have catastrophic mechanical failures; all though you do see them with low pumping capacity or bad windings ever now and then. There was a time when it was hard to get suitable R12 replacements, but now that we have plenty of choices, there isn't really any sound logic supporting the "replace the whole system every time" philosophy. Now, don't get me wrong - I understand that some owners want a new system and they should get what they want. Just want to say that the old systems need to be preserved for others who want like for like replacements.
@wrenchguy
Жыл бұрын
Early on, I always use 16oz hammer and lighgty tap the piece progressively hit it harder till it works. if it don't fire , its scrap. lol1 nice video.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
I've heard that too, but in this case, that might not be able to realign all the broken pieces of the connecting rod and wrist pin LOL!
@19723020
Жыл бұрын
Forensic Mechanics at its best , right here 👍 I can't believe you're not gonna just bore it, and sleeve it back to standard. Where does all the metal end up after a failure like this?
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment! I could bore and sleeve it but there are likely to be more compressors like this with electrical failures with good cylinder frames and mechanical parts. As for the metal, it all falls into the sump. The compressor vapor inlet is at the very top of the housing, so it won't take that material in on top of the piston and pump it out into the system What small amount goes into the system ends up in the filter-drier.
@Dancing_Alone_wRentals
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting , tHanks for the video!
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@sureshkumarc.k6534
Жыл бұрын
I guess Rodney came knockin
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
LOL Most definitely!
@AmericanLocomotive1
Жыл бұрын
Interesting failure. Another interesting thing to note: After a certain voltage (or really, current), the stator of the motor will become magnetically "saturated". When saturated, any additional current will produce very little increase in magnetic field strength. So whacking it with 480v might not actually make it turn any harder than 240v. Hard to know though without fully characterizing the motor.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it! It's very possible that a saturation point is reached before 4x rated voltage is applied, but it would take some special instrumentation to know. I have done an actual measurement with a torque moment arm and scale (measuring torque at shaft) on another type of compressor. It produced "100%" at 120V and no capacitor. By upping the voltage and adding capacitors, I got up to somewhere near 565% torque with 240V and using 2-phase power to separately excite the main and start windings with pre-phase-shifted power. The start winding signal was over 240V as well, using a large rotary converter motor. Didn't try a transformer boost, though. That would have been interesting for sure. Here is the link to that video: kzitem.info/news/bejne/w6qNzmadjZ2gZY4
@coolbluelights
Жыл бұрын
That's a real interesting failure. super rare no doubt!
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
It is a unique failure! However, I have heard quite a few of this model compressor making a bad noise before. You hear them from time to time. Or; you did when these were commonplace. Not saying all those had the same failure, just that I have heard some of them sounding bad.
@repatch43
Жыл бұрын
Ya, that would NOT have been my guess as to how it failed, fascinating!
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Mine neither! I was expecting worn bearings and rotor / stator rubbing; or a stuck piston.
@HDXFH
Жыл бұрын
Same as the aussie design, bullerproof, although ours is the kirby version, uses the proprietary service tool and are more solidly made
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Probably like the Robinair service tool for the non-threaded ports on the older GE units?
@HDXFH
11 ай бұрын
@@davida1hiwaaynetpossibly
@starman6092
3 ай бұрын
I enjoyed watching you break down the compressor and diagnose the problem. I have a dixie narco 276 soda machine that was cooling but recently quit cooling and found that the compressor clicks on, then a second later clicks off, on then off. Would this be bad electrical components or a burnt-out compressor? Thanks.
@davida1hiwaaynet
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the comment; and I am happy you enjoyed the video! As for the clicking off and on; for most units this indicates a bad start relay or start capacitor. If you replace those parts and still have the same symptom then the compressor is stuck.
@compu85
Жыл бұрын
Could banging the compressor on the table while applying power help un-stick it? I have to do this with old hard drives sometimes... give them a good twist when powering up to overcome heads that are stuck to the platters.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
That's something people have suggested! I have never used percussive maintenance on a compressor before trying boosted voltage. For the few which haven't started with boosted voltages, the percussive maintenance option didn't help either. Funny you mention hard drives - I used to do the "wrist flick" spin thing to get them going "one last time" to get my data off when they would start to get stuck!
@jwsolutions99
Жыл бұрын
Have not checked in for a while David, winter in Wisconsin, good time to work on projects. Thanks for the vids! Great stuff as always! Happy New Year.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Hi James! I have been covered up with work and with projects, not on KZitem as much. I'm pleased you enjoyed this; and Happy New Year to you as well!
@realvanman1
Жыл бұрын
Running without the condenser fan would put a much greater load on the rod and wrist pin than it was designed for, wearing the rod small end bearing, the clearance then resulting in hammering, then the wrist pin breaks, etc, etc... So I wouldn't completely rule out the fan failure as the smoking gun.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
You're correct, no doubt. I can't say for sure that the fan was bad all along though. This and all the other used system I got were stored outdoors before I got them here. The fan could have taken on water and rusted up internally. I took the fan off because we needed the bracket and condenser for another project. Can't remember what I did with that motor though. Or I would open it up and see if it gummed up in operation, or if it rusted solid after the fact.
@realvanman1
Жыл бұрын
Obviously it wouldn't have mattered this time, but sometimes they might free up if started in reverse. ;) I believe I've seen you try that with other ones.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
I need to try that and see what sort of torque can be produced in reverse. I have my doubts that a resistance-start split phase motor can be effectively reversed without access to both ends of the start winding. If it were a capacitor motor, it would likely be possible! I did take apart a General Electric CA compressor and actually made torque measurements with various configurations. Didn't try reversing it though.
@tomkirkgaard247
Жыл бұрын
Did you consider running in reverse? Not that the outcome would be any different but it may have spun the motor until it jammed again.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Hi Tom; thanks for the comment! I didn't try reversing this one because it isn't a capacitor motor. The resistance split-phase start motors aren't really designed to reverse.
@royleonard6278
Жыл бұрын
Amazing
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks
@HDXFH
Жыл бұрын
Bet it was knocking like my pope power pak compressor lol
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
I bet so! I remember your videos on Rodney with his rod-knock!
@ElectromagneticVideos
Жыл бұрын
Another fascinating forensic analysis video Dave! I wonder if the original cracking goes back to a very minor defect in the metal when it was cast the grew a little, perhaps every time something stressful happened like an unsuccessful start. Had no idea you could get some old seized compressor going that way even if it didn't work for this one for obvious reasons. Reminds me of older seized hard drives, often caused by the grease hardening. You could sometimes get them spinning by leaving them powered to heat up the grease, and then tapping them to reduce the static friction. With luck one was able to read data from them one last time.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! I really appreciate your comments. It's very hard to know about the reason for the initiation of the fracture on the wrist pin! After tearing down another of these which had been exposed to a failed condenser fan; I found that the small-end bore of the connecting rod was worn egg shaped. It is possible that the small-end was worn first, and allowed a hammering action to damage the wrist pin. It's hard to know at this point once the failure had progressed so far. I tend to think that it was a combination of factors. As for the soundness of trying to un-stick old compressors... that's a debatable point! There are some designs which are very prone to getting stuck. The 1933 and 1934 General Electric Monitor Top units are a prime example. GE used a chemically unstable refrigerant in them which would break down and release noncondensable gases into the system. These get seized from over-pressure. They can often be re-activated with application of higher voltages. Once you remove the excess pressure, they often live for many years after that. Also, some of the earlier R12 compressors will become stuck if they are cut out of a system and not properly sealed up. The oil will varnish in presence of air and cause the piston to become stuck. When this happens to the more heavily-built low-speed designs, they can often be re-activated similarly to the Monitor Top compressor. With an air-exposed, stuck compressor you want to get it going and then run it long enough (lines looped and nitrogen in the compressor) until it is piping hot. Then immediately drain the old oil, and put the compressor under vacuum while it is hot. This will dehydrate the interior of the casing. Finally, refill with new oil. In the antique fridge and soda cooler world, these have continued to serve years. What won't usually work is trying to un-seize a compressor which failed in service for no external reason. The GE compressors are a special case due to the chemicals used in them. Air-exposed stuck compressors were perfectly good before the oil gummed up. Neither of these have suffered mechanical failures. A compressor from a still-sealed system which locked up is not going to be saved by this procedure. I remember having to deal with stuck hard drives too! I would hold the drive in my hand and give it a quick "flick of the wrist" rotation around the axis of the spindle motor. That would usually get it to spin up. About 75% of the time, if they spin up they will continue to work as long as they aren't allowed to stop and cool back off. Definitely long enough to get the data off.
@ElectromagneticVideos
Жыл бұрын
@@davida1hiwaaynet Regarding "the soundness of trying to un-stick old compressors" - well my thought is if you in a nothing to loose type situation, why not try it. The video was also a great demo of how as long as there is enough thermal mass, a short massive over current may not damage the windings (or anything else!).
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
@@ElectromagneticVideos Exactly - if you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, there is no reason not to try. Few things are as disheartening as giving up before exhausting all hope. It does seem that as long as there aren't any semiconductors in the system, almost everything follows a similar damage curve; wherein the higher the fault current, the less time it can tolerate it. Most power circuit breakers, and motor overload protectors work on this principle, as you're well aware. With the compressor motors, when starting from "cold" there is a lot of thermal head-room before any point in the winding exceeds a safe limit. Some of the General Electric CA machines have to be repeatedly boosted, then they run and stall again, and have to be boosted again. This used to worry me until I did that video where I torque-tested tested an open compressor motor and I found that the winding didn't get more than lightly warm.
@ElectromagneticVideos
Жыл бұрын
@@davida1hiwaaynet I'm definitely going to have to look at that video! I'm always amazed a the starting current of many induction motors being 5 to 10 times running current. Same thing - only you are doing probably 10 to 20 times or more.
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yep, induction motors have always been a stress point for the electric power distribution system! Of all the interesting designs to minimize locked-rotor current, I think the repulsion-start induction designs are the coolest! It's wild to see a motor with little or no more current drawn at locked-rotor conditions versus running load. And makes more start torque than a capacitor start motor!
@Tjousk
Жыл бұрын
Interesting
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, my friend!
@rottweiler9535
Жыл бұрын
compressor swallowed some liquid refrigerant? hydro-locked damaged / broke the rod?
@davida1hiwaaynet
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment! While that could do this sort of damage, the design of the compressor precludes this. The inlet is at the top of the cylinder frame casting. The return line comes in at the middle on the other side of the housing. The whole charge for this system was only 8 ounces of Freon-12. It would take way more than that to fill up the entire compressor housing to reach the inlet port. The original crimped and soldered service stems were still in place, and the system was still charged when I got it. If the entire machine was turned upside-down and run;; that could suck oil into the cylinder, but that is unlikely. Also that wouldn't allow the piston to keep running and score the bore like this one did.
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