My Dhamma Book (also available on Paper): drive.google.com/file/d/1d8VYL5iOi76u1AEmyI7iGpgPP3T5FaNa/view?usp=sharing My Almanac (also available on Paper): drive.google.com/file/d/1VzAw8zHdhOsDDUzPEubTN64qhVmQhZ0m/view?usp=sharing True Dhamma Lecture: kzitem.info/news/bejne/jqulwGd_oKZ2mIY Dhamma Hub Discord: discord.gg/AcDwZ78ybn
@sylvias.7048
6 ай бұрын
I have been to two lengthy Jhana retreats. At both I experienced extraordinary states of conscious, which the presiding Teacher confirmed as Jhana. Well, in both cases they faded fast. Thus I find this video to be illuminating, I will continue on the path as best I can.
@Liravin
6 ай бұрын
for the last point: if you think Jhana is something you do or that happens to you, there is still a self in that view, at least in the wording. to me, it's always a bit tricky to be aware of a wholesome state without it triggering thoughts relating to a self. usually my response is to disidentify with the mind as much as possible without that turning into something active itself.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
Lets say that there would be a sense of "being" in the wording I chose^^ If there is something that happens _to you_ then it is also not Jhana yet ("contact" has not ceased yet)
@johncraftenworth7847
6 ай бұрын
it's not ego you, it's your true self coming out of hiding!!! these words are frowned upon i understand, maybe it's no-self/original self/source. we have to use the english language and simultaneously understand the meaning of no-self / true self etc!!
@johncraftenworth7847
6 ай бұрын
Buddha said he remembered that meditation was pleasant/pleasurable vs the starving self denial that almost killed him, and that was the breakthrough he needed. I think he and first generation followers discussed the duka of janna as an eventual problem! but starvation meditation was probably good on about the 5th day with a clear and purifying body and a lot worse later on. Under the boddi tree he probably transcended pleasant jhana and was living on air and sunlight (ie not starving)
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
I do not argue for starvation of pleasure. In a sense, a person who practices Dhamma rightly _is_ devoted to "pleasure". It is just that that pleasure is a very specific kind, namely it is relief-born. Something oprpessive fades and as a result, you are full of joy because you are free from it.
@milesrossow8526
6 ай бұрын
At 13:55, I heard you say "first there is stream entry, then whatever you practice like, culminates in samadhi. The suttas could not be clearer on that." So to rephrase to check my understanding, are you saying that one cannot enter jhana until they have attained stream entry? I'm not the most studious in the suttas, nor am I the least; however, I don't recall reading any suttas that explicitly stated that one cannot enter jhana prior to stream entry, nor do I recall reading anything in which one would obviously infer that. Could you please provide some information on how you determined that from the suttas? Edited to add: I hear your point in the video about Right Samadhi being the 8th step of the Noble Eightfold Path, but I don't think the Buddha has ever said that the Noble Eightfold Path is completely linear like step 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and then done. The Buddha also does differentiate between "mundane" Right View and "transcendent" Right View, which many say only the latter applies to stream enterers. My point there is it seems that one could hold "mundane" Right View and not be a stream enterer but still being practicing the Noble Eightfold Path, which of course includes Right Samadhi. I'm sure you've heard people talk about the N8P cycling and nourishing itself, meaning you develop Right View, which informs Right Intention, and so on up to Right Samadhi, which informs Right View, and so on. Does this disagree with your understanding? Sorry for the word salad, but I hope my question & points of misunderstanding are apparent.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
As mentioned in some other comments under this video, technically Jhana _can_ happend before Stream Entry, but given the level of purity that Jhana entails, it is much more likely that you attain Stream Entry _before_ Jhana. I do not claim that the Path is a linear succession of steps either. Yet, Suttas like MN117 are very clear on the order of the Path - namely, that "Right View comes first". To give you a few short citation from there: "Bhikkhus, I shall teach you noble right concentration with its _supports and its requisites_. Listen and attend closely to what I shall say." "Therein, bhikkhus, right view comes first. And how does right view come first? One understands wrong view as wrong view and right view as right view: this is one’s right view." This very Sutta mentions over and over that Right View is always the first step when it comes to other Path elements. In fact, this Sutta very much _also_ discusses the distinction ebwteen mundane Right View and supramundane Right View in that context. It is very clear that the "real" Right View is meant here. So in one sense I would disagree and in another I would agree^^ You do have to practice thr Path rightly without having attained it yet to make the breakthrough. Yet, the Path only _becomes right_ when there Right View is present. The "Right" of Right View is what makes the rest of the Path "Right" as I see it.
@PotatoJim
6 ай бұрын
You seem to equivalate jhana with attaining the non-returner or even arahant stage, a permanent result. SN specifies entering, remaining and emerging from samadhi, oposite to what you mention around 7:00.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
Absolutely not! I just say that the Jhanas the Suttas talk about are much _more permanent_ that people and traditions nowadays usually portray it. Once or Non-returner could be _results_ of spending a lot of time in such states (or can be, while there are other ways to get there too)
@PotatoJim
6 ай бұрын
@TheDhammaHub I got a better understanding of what you mean from your other jhana videos. Thank you for making them. I feel that this kind of perfected jhana is unatainable by lay practitioners, unless you are living a nearly monastic lifestyle which is nearly impossible for most of us. But I would not dismiss shorter jhana states that may appear or be cultivated in day to day life or meditation which could lead to great insight if acompanied by right view. The jhana that the Buddha had as a child was later on the key to perfect enlightment, and I think that would not have lasted a very long time. I think there is a huge difference between entering a temporary state of jhana and having mastered it to the point of using it at will. I think the suttas sometimes refer to the practice of developing them and sometimes of the result of having mastered them fully.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
@@PotatoJimWe should very much strive for this kind of Jhana as a lay practitioner. We might not get the "full thing" for quite a while, but every bit of non-clinging we cultivate leads to an equal bit of peace/Samadhi. The sum and culmination of that training is a full Jhana and that is very worthwhile!
@johncraftenworth7847
6 ай бұрын
i got warm, fairly paralyzed, I was both sleeping and dreaming and I knew I was dreaming. I knew I was really on my real life bed while it was all happening. Irritating relatives in my dream were mocking me for not being able to easily move or speak, and I was thinking sure I can get up and shake/will my limbs to move and mouth to speak, but then I will wake up! Then I woke up. I think my ego was screwing with my jhana and ruining it for me what u guys think
@halimb4836
6 ай бұрын
Excellent 🙌
@kzantal
6 ай бұрын
Great exposition ! What I don't get is the nature of wrong jhana. If jhana can only be entered by a path of renunciation, what is the nature of wrong jhana? Is it a renunciation-based jhana tainted by silabata-paramasa? You follow the right instruction but you haven't understood for yourself the reason why you should go in that direction? So you really are temporarily free from sensuality but you haven't uprooted the view that it must be abandoned? Wouldn't that be a faith-based approach, which is a legitimate vehicle to nibbana, isn't it? Or is it a concentration born jhana (like in the visudimagga)? I guess not, but looking forward to your opinion.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
The "right" _wrong_ Jhana would be the very same thing but with the dormant roots (self-view etc) left intact from which sensuality can regrow anytime... the other modern jhanas would just be rule/technique-following as you said. And in a sense, faith _is_ a vehicle to Nibbana, but it can backfire if put in the wrong teaching^^
@Andy-lo9sp
6 ай бұрын
when you say you adhere to the suttas, is this just because you generally think they are the most reliable set of info within reasonable limits of fallible human authors, or do you assign some sort of religious primacy to them? Because it would be interesting if the only correct system of awakening just happened to be compiled by a specific group of people in ancient India (but it’s much easier to just respect it as one of the best). for example, the idea that insight meditation isn’t a “thing” because it’s not framed that way in the suttas, while perhaps fundamentally true in the sense that there isn’t a separate thing called insight, in terms of relative techniques there’s a ton of independent systems both within and outside of Buddhism that have reported success with insight meditation practice. Is “that’s not differentiated in the pali canon!” a valid rebuttal?
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
There are a few different arguments for the Suttas. 1. As they are the oldest source of Buddhadhamma, it would be logical to practice what is in there if one is intend on practicing what the Buddha advised. 2. They are for the vast majority internally consistent and have very few contradictions if any. 3. The Suttas describe the experience and training towards it exceptionally well. 4. It is much easier to have some kind of "ground truth" when it comes to convincing others of this or that when it comes to the practice. Yet, this is all happening based on the assumption that someone is already interested in the liberation the Buddha described^^ And when it comes to your second point, it very much depends what the eprson meant by "insight meditation" as thta is by no means clear to even themselves sometimes^^ It is not important to apply the correct _label_ to his practice, but "pondering and thinking on the teaching" was very much a thing in the Suttas, they just do not call that "meditation"
@Andy-lo9sp
6 ай бұрын
@@TheDhammaHub I agree that the Pali Canon has a lot of credibility, but in most areas of human study we leave the door open for improvements and amendments to the initial discoveries. We don’t dismiss improvements to Newton’s physics by citing the “scripture” of Newton; instead we treat our understanding as a collaborative effort between many people over generations. In 2500 years across the world, has nobody happened to come up with useful spiritual improvements after Gautama? I feel like to support this view we’d have to basically attribute some outright divine/supernatural infallibility to the Buddha. Like with insight meditation, we have plenty of very formalized techniques, ofc some in the suttas that as you say aren’t necessarily called meditation, but later on with Mahasi noting, dzogchen/mahamudra, koans, etc. These techniques aren’t necessarily in the suttas, but humanity outside of a specific person named Siddhartha could’ve figured things out too. IMHO
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
@@Andy-lo9sp Given the predefined goal of "ending suffering", it would be difficult to come up with something better if there is already a Path laid out that gets the job done. Also, the Buddha did not only lay out _one Path, he kinda layed out just the essential bits that _every_ working Path must include. That would be the "heatwood of the Dhamma". The Buddha's genius was to get to a goal that he did not really know yet. He was self-awakened, and that is indeed "superhuman" in a sense. Imagine walkign on a map, trying to get to a specific place but you do not know where it is. On top of that, all the signs and cues others give you point in the wrong directions! It is remarkable that anyone could find a way to the goal udner such circumstances. With guidance, it is a completely different beast. So those who came after the Buddha can very much come up with helpful techniques but the iinstructions that paved the way have been handed down by a chain of individuals starting with the Buddha himself^^ There aren't really similar instructions _outside_ of the sphere of influence of the Buddha Dhamma. Those Paths and instructiosn that do work usually contain the heartwood that I mentioned before +- a bit extra thta is not essential but usually only beneficial for some individuals yet not all. Does that make sense?^^
@sylwesterkukuka3592
6 ай бұрын
What do you think of the meditation method of Thanissaro Bhikkhu which stems form Ajhan Lee teaching?
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
I prefer not to comment on teachers but rather on "teachings". I you can phrase that more "content-centric", I will gladly answer^^
@shamshardmarikkar653
6 ай бұрын
Can u suggest which english translation of the suttas is good to read
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
I would not worry too much about the specific translations if you have some knowledge about the background of the translator. The translations are usually still good, you just have to "subtract" potential bias. I like the Bodhi translations best but I also know that he hold many views/opinions that are often commentary-based
@VeritableVagabond
6 ай бұрын
Don't the 5 jhana factors suggest a doing? I feel like I can practice applied and sustained thought, such as bringing up wholesome thoughts continuously which will lead to piti and sukkha and so on. Is it a waste of time do engage with the jhana factors before sotapanna?
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
There is the "unfolding of natural laws" so there are still things happening, but none of that natural happening is "yours" any longer without craving. But you very much should isolate and stop all the processes where you crave. That is the training and process that leads to the culmination of Jhana where you no longer have to do that and can still be at peace
@Danny-no5dx
6 ай бұрын
In AN10.72 it is said that "sound is a thorn to the first Jhana.", this makes sense if a Jhana is an absorption-like state. How would you read this passage? I don't mean to put you on the spot or something, this is just a passage I came across which I find hard to reconcile. Thanks for the videos. :)
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
In a sense, you can be free from the 5 hindrances without being in Jhana. As in, you experience can be one without craving (on the elvel of a lifestyle) but if _could be "calmer"_ The first Jhana would be a state that is further distinguished by its level of withdrawl. The same Sutta you citet states even the first Jhana as a "thorn" in the second Jhana and so on. Yet, the Buddha did call even the first Jhana entirely wholesome and even the very _foundation_ for liberation. Yet, he calles the first Jhana a "thorn" too. As I see it, those thoren analogies do not apply to much on the level of craving/hindrances but apply to the "speed" at which you move towards Nibbana. The first Jhana is factually cooling you down faster than just being free from the five hindrances. The second Jhana cools you down faster than the first. The third Jhana faster than the second and so on. No absorption is requires in the process at all^^ And even if such states were absorbed, there would still be the prcondition of being completely and entirely free from craving ebfore you could enter any of those states
@VeritableVagabond
6 ай бұрын
What do you make of MN64 Mahāmālukyasutta ? The Buddha says that jhana is used to clear the five lower fetters. So, how can be jhana be difficult before sotapanna? He seems to say that jhana, at least the first jhana, is attained right before sotapanna. You're still correct that jhana is the culmination of the Noble 8-fold path. But, the Buddha suggests that Right View can be seen before sotapanna, which allows whomever to fulfill samma samadhi that leads to sotapanna.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
Could you give a citation of that Sutta maybe? The MN Sttas are usually very long and it is difficult for me to know what part you are referring to. That said, I would rather say that the attainment of the fruit of Stream Entry is simultaneous with the attainment of Samma Samadhi. The Samadhi only becomes fully "right" then and there
@VeritableVagabond
6 ай бұрын
@@TheDhammaHub Yes. And what, Ānanda, is the path and the practice for giving up the five lower fetters? It’s when a mendicant-due to the seclusion from attachments, the giving up of unskillful qualities, and the complete settling of physical discomforts-quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. They contemplate the phenomena there-included in form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness-as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self. They turn their mind away from those things, and apply it to the element free of death: ‘This is peaceful; this is sublime-that is, the stilling of all activities, the letting go of all attachments, the ending of craving, fading away, cessation, extinguishment.’ Abiding in that they attain the ending of defilements. If they don’t attain the ending of defilements, with the ending of the five lower fetters they’re reborn spontaneously, because of their passion and love for that meditation. They are extinguished there, and are not liable to return from that world. This is the path and the practice for giving up the five lower fetters.
@TheDhammaHub
6 ай бұрын
@@VeritableVagabond As I see it, this Sutta snippet explicitly applies to the 5 lower fetters as a "package". As in, in addition to having given up the 3 lowest fetters, you achieve further progress by abiding in a state without craving which in turn leads to an eroding away of the very roots of craving so that it first arises less and elss often (once returner) and leter not arise at all anymore (Anagami)
@VeritableVagabond
6 ай бұрын
@@TheDhammaHub Oh I see. Thank you.
@timl.
6 ай бұрын
@@TheDhammaHub so, your understanding of MN 64 is that "giving up five lower fetters" refers here to non-return, and exclusively to non-return? in other words, "this (jhāna) is the path that leads to giving up the five lower fetters = non-return"? if this interpretation was valid, there would be no reason to assume that you also need jhāna for stream-entry and once-return. however, there is, imo, a problem with this interpretation. while it is true that the non-returner has given up all five lower fetters, the process of attaining non-return (from once-return) only entails giving up two fetters (sensual desire and ill will). this means that if this passage in MN 64 was referring only to what is needed for non-return, and *not* any other level of awakening before that, he buddha must have said: "this is the path for the abandoning of the fetter of sensual desire and ill will (which are given up with non-return)". but he doesn't. he says it's the path to abandon the five lower fetters, and that includes the three fetters given up at stream-entry. because if jhāna was necessary for abandoning only the fetter of sensual desire and ill will (only 2 fetters), it would be wrong of him to say that jhāna is necessary to give up 5 fetters. verstehst du was ich meine?
Пікірлер: 45