The future of gearboxes is looking bright! ☀ Which bike brand would you like to see using the new Pinion C1.12i gearbox? I also have a lot more videos on bicycle gearboxes and belt drivetrains for you to watch! 🤌🏻 🧡 5 New Bicycle Gearbox Drivetrains 2023 --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/0a-bs3aBg36lin4 🖤 Shimano Alfine internal gear hubs --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/0pxv2nqAf4qHaKQ 💜 Enviolo CVT internal gear hubs --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/lKCQ0YiifZh8a3o ❤ Rohloff hub vs Pinion gearbox --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/uJWe3miMcp-KqKw 💛 Belts are now BETTER than chains --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/sZ6OuqBtoHOhiXY 💙 Effigear Mimic gearbox --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/p2ZuyHh4hGmGanY 💜 Chainless shaft drive bicycles --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/xp-jsn2hg5N_eYI 💚 Chainless digital drive bicycles --- kzitem.info/news/bejne/02OQ36Rso4phe4I
@justsayin3600
Жыл бұрын
REEB steel enduro with a Pinion looks good.
@svetlicam
Жыл бұрын
They should put some better computer controller to calculate wats and according to it change gears automatically swiftly and smoothly, this is good adjustment for long distance accommodation of ride and reduce needles power impute in trying to get some speed, because slowly changing cadence can do the same with much less power needed, but because windy conditions can occur suddenly controller can feel this change in power and smoothly downshift and then adjust proper proportion between cadence and power, and all this smoothly which enables smooth and consistent pedaling which reduce effort. This would be real game changer.
@tristanbogaard
Жыл бұрын
Tout Terrain!
@russellzauner
Жыл бұрын
Priority already did it, as usual.
@russellzauner
Жыл бұрын
Since I am disabled I ride a recumbent tadpole style - it would be nice to see something come out with this since derailleurs are the #2 thing I smash after idler pulleys. It gets expensive fast.
@Mixail747
Жыл бұрын
To be a "killer" of a product it needs to be in the same price bracket as that product, and it is not even in the same solar system price wise.
@zayon0170
Жыл бұрын
wise man! lets hope they mass produces and seel it to biggest bikes brand so the price go down
@TheSoppakulho
Жыл бұрын
Its a killer product if you look at it from a long time investment thing. Costs more but will not need any more chains, cassettes, and derailleurs when broken or worn
@Erdnav27
Жыл бұрын
Only a €90 belt and €180 sprockets. Granted, after 30k KM, but still needs to be in the equation@@TheSoppakulho
@TheSoppakulho
Жыл бұрын
@@Erdnav27 True. Gearbox is not for all riders but Im very much attracted to the maintenance free usage!
@vitocortison
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSoppakulhofor most peoples a standard transmission is perfectly fine and needs zero maintainance. After 30 years mostly in the garage and few thousand kilometres they throw the whole bike because everything start to fall apart: brakes, shifting, noisy and skipping chain, saddle... This is the life of probably 90% of the bikes. Moreover, most of the bikes people use cost about 1/10 of this transmission. So this transmission is for a very small niche and will remain so unless its cost is devided by about 100, which I think will never happen.
@xxwookey
Жыл бұрын
The fact that this thing works well with drops too is _really_ good. Now we just need to wait for more manufacturers to use it. I'd buy a decent touring bike with drops with this and a belt, although I would like it to be more like £3000 than £5000 which what I found with a VSK bike (and they don't do drops).
@tvuser9529
Жыл бұрын
One thing not mentioned is that once you've cashed out for a Pinion bike, having multiple front AND rear wheels is a minor extra cost, and switching between them is a 2 minute job. Useful for summer and winter wheelsets, or offroad and road ones. I'd be doing this if I ever got such a bike.
@senior_java
Жыл бұрын
Me, as a full-year cyclist, pinion is a blessing. Maintenance free is such a time/cost saver, it's just unbelievable!!!
@seitenryu6844
11 ай бұрын
If running tubes, and expect few yearly wheel swaps, changing tires is smarter. A few minutes more, but no big deal. It's a good chance for maintenance. Now for trail vs road use, I see your point. Not much different than a derailleur bike though, since belt sprockets aren't cheap.
@tvuser9529
11 ай бұрын
@@seitenryu6844 Yes, but belt sprockets are far cheaper than a decent IHG, which is the only alternative in my case. Swapping tyres is a much bigger hassle than just swapping wheels - how much depends on particular tyre/rim combos, but it's far more work. When spring arrives in february, but winter suddenly returns in march - with tyre swaps, I'd generally wait until april, to make sure I only do two swaps per year. With wheelsets, I'd swap more often, and get a safer and more comfortable ride, and maybe some cost saving eventually on less wear of the expensive studded winter tyres. To each their etc...
@difflocktwo
10 ай бұрын
@@tvuser9529 You can order a built nexus 8 wheel for under 150 USD. A single gates cog is 100 USD.
@orenaofer
Жыл бұрын
100% these were the TWO big factors that prevented me from going Pinion. As of now, I'm in!
@arildschonberg3607
Жыл бұрын
Pinion seems to be an excellent choice for many riders, but prices need to come down as production numbers go up. They need more competition. As always, your presentation is stellar 🌟.
@chadwells7562
Жыл бұрын
It’s hard for niche products like this to compete on price against a widespread and mature tech like derailleurs. It would probably take a very large manufacturer (read: only Shimano or SRAM) making a huge bet on it and essentially subsidizing it to grab market share, except it would be at the expense of cannibalizing their own sales.
@mesnyankin89
11 ай бұрын
I need i friend from Europe to buy me a pinion gearbox. I am from Russia. I talked to a russian bike conpany "rapid" manufacturing bike from titan, and they said that pinions no longer imported due to sanctions. They said i need friends in Europe to buy pinion. Sad, but i don't have any friends in Europe .
@emp-ty-g
11 ай бұрын
blame putin.@@mesnyankin89
@garysmith643
Жыл бұрын
Good on pinion for their innovation! Would be nice if they stepped up on their website and listed current manufacturers c/w bike style eg hard tail , xc , gravel etc
@crunchysteve
Жыл бұрын
Re the SCRAM Pinion, at EU5099, the pinion is LOOOOOOONG way from "killing" derailleur tech. The other 3 flatbar bikes are all equally expensive. Nice to dream, but my tourer/commuter cost me AU$550 plus about AU250 worth of self installed upgrades. It's 8 years old and only just feels like it could use a new ring, chain and cassette. It's done Melbourne to Sydney, Melbourne half way to Adelaide and the sort of commuting around Melbourne, even most serious cyclists tend to give most of to the car. (I don't drive. At all.) The Pinion system needs to come down to Shimano or even MicroSHIFT prices and get some sort of general compatibility with British bottom bracket frames before it will "kill" derailleurs. Like I say, nice to dream, but mere mortals are "stuck" with Tulio's brilliance for a while yet. Besides, I love servicing my own bike - can't do that anywhere near as easily with a gearbox bike.
@spdcrzy
11 ай бұрын
Pinion gearboxes with a Gates Carbon belt drive system are essentially service-free.
@spektrumB
11 ай бұрын
@@spdcrzy The bike as a whole isn't service free. You still need to periodically check and adjust the tire pressure and brake.
@spdcrzy
11 ай бұрын
@@spektrumB but compared to everything else? That's nothing. That's regular maintenance, not service. There's a difference.
@spektrumB
11 ай бұрын
@@spdcrzy I honestly don't know what serious service you need for deraileur. I commute 250Km a week. All I have to do is re-lube the chain once a week. That two minute job. Once a month I spend 30 min cleaning the bike, check tire pressure and brakes. Yearly expenses for tire, brake wear, chain, cassette, cables, etc is €150. That is €150 for 10,000Km. I own this bike since 2009. Still using the same original rear deraileur and shifter. Even with Pinion gear box, you still have the same cost of tire and brake wear and service. Sure you can say I have a full time job and three kids. 2 minutes a week is way too much to spend on lubing a chain. Or I'm a high paying lawyer making €1000 an hour. Spending 2 minutes to work on the bike is not worth it.
@Durwood71
8 ай бұрын
@@spektrumB Agreed. Folks trying to hype up gearboxes tend to exaggerate the maintenance needed to keep a chain and derailleur in working order. For most people, it's minimal.
@greenwaybikexploring
Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad to see you mentioned the Korean startup working on a gearbox. I'm so excited to see progress on that model.
@truth-Hurts375
6 ай бұрын
It will never be the same as the pinnion...I got two touring bike with Rholoff Speedhubs and a bike with the Shimano equivalent....the Shimano is a shadow of of the Roholoff...same will be here....
@ThiagoMarquardt
2 ай бұрын
Is another company. Not Shimano
@DuBstep115
Ай бұрын
@@truth-Hurts375 Thats like saying bmw 325i is shadow of bugatti veyron. Shimano alfine is 150€ Rohloff is 1160€. With almost 10x price I would hope it is almost 10x better. Shimano sells millions of hubs, Rohloff sells like 100 a year
@jameshuggins4300
Жыл бұрын
I love the idea of new technologies and innovations. . However as much as I would love to have a pinion equipped bike it costs more than my last 2 bikes cost together and now has electronics and a battery! Im not a complete retrogrouch but this is a step in the wrong direction for me. I love bicycles for their simplicity. I don't want something else to charge.
@rifu2301
11 ай бұрын
Should be easy for Pinion to engineer a little dynamo inside the gearbox unit that charge the electric shifting mechanism. Or better yet, connect it to a USB outlet to charge lights and GPS tracker. Yes, it would decrease the efficiency of an already innefficient drivetrain system. I think that is a compromise that some people are willing to take.
@addict-tionary9709
10 ай бұрын
I have to agree, if it’s better mechanically, keep it mechanical, don’t try to make it “even better”
@headslash55
6 ай бұрын
There are/were mechanical versions before the electronic shifting one. And brifters are available.
@IS-xk3iq
Жыл бұрын
Outstanding video!! Surprised Priority is one who had progressed and at the same time elated that a Korean pinion bicycle is on its way. Many options and loving them all! Thank you to the bearer of good news Mr. Durham.
@saschah911
Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much to bring this great development on the table. I was always interested in a bike with pinion gearbox, now this is for me the point where i cant really resist. Absolutely stocked by the new shifting options. Just waiting for an good eMTB with Pionion gearbox 😊 Thank you once again for ypur video, love it ❤
@256shadesofgrey
Жыл бұрын
If the bike needs electronics for its core functionality, it's instantly disqualified. So the TL:DW summary is: nothing changed, you still have to use the grip shifter.
@LifeCycle1978
Жыл бұрын
Disqualified from what? Electronic shifting is reliably used on numerous other types of bikes at all riding levels. You may not like it, but that’s your opinion.
@DR_1_1
8 ай бұрын
I'm also not interested. But it's most likely the future.
@svr5423
4 ай бұрын
@@LifeCycle1978 Problem is that it can't be connected to the bikes onboard generator. Now you need to take care of an extra battery. If I'd want to do this, I would ride my e-scooter.
@douglastong3208
6 ай бұрын
I have had a Pinion gearbox on my recumbent trike for over three years now. It's been very reliably and I have made full use of the 12-speed...an electronic shifting option would be even better, IMO.
@The_Privateer
Жыл бұрын
Except... you cant use 'Brand X' gearbox on 'Brand Y' frame like you can with the nearly 99% universal fit derailleur. That is why this, while probably a better technology, will never really catch on and replace the derailleur. Never mind cost. I think the recent 'marketing push' of the pinion gearbox is interesting too.
@peglor
Жыл бұрын
The only hope is the bike industry settling on a universal standard for ebike motors and Pinion making gearboxes compatible with this, followed by bike companies making light frames with the same mount when they realise there are no extra tooling costs since it's already been paid for by the e-bike investment.
@NakedUndone
Жыл бұрын
It's also less efficient than a derailleur.
@pmcmpc
Жыл бұрын
Makes sense for slow speed long distance touring and heavier MTBs and possibly E city bikes. Hopeless for road and gravel though - low efficiency, extremely low top gear, no power meter unless you run PM pedals, no oval rings if you prefer them.
@larsandersson8723
Жыл бұрын
Nice, but as with all gearboxes cost more then a new kidney! :P Prices overall need to come down on all gearboxes.
@janeblogs324
Жыл бұрын
The pinion costs more than an entire brand new Honda motorcycle
@justsayin3600
Жыл бұрын
@janeblogs324 I was looking at a new Specialized Stumpjumper EVO Pro and this bike is selling for 13k now. I have a 2022 and thought 8k was steep.
@RidingBicycles
Жыл бұрын
They are cheaper than the latest Shimano or SRAM group sets though.
@janclark8438
Жыл бұрын
Are they cheaper than than 2x cassettes an new chain and derailleur every year though?
@Frostbiker
Жыл бұрын
A Shimano Nexus or Alfine doesn't cost all that much. There are also offerings from NuVinci and others.
@fademasterfade227
Жыл бұрын
Those TRP shifters look so nice, and the Pilot is a sweet looking ride. I have a Priority 600HXT on order. The electronic shifting and thumb shifter tipped the balance for me. I think Priority has done an excellent job of speccing this bike and making it relatively affordable. The next few years should see a good number of manufacturers adopting gear boxes with these new innovations and I'm sure more on the way. I briefly had a Priority 600X and did not like the twist shift and the super short reach geometry felt weird. I'm hoping the 600HXT is comfortable for long days of pedaling so I can use it double duty as a shredder and a bikepacking bike.
@srileo
Жыл бұрын
How do you think the XHT will do on long days in the saddle?
@fademasterfade227
Жыл бұрын
@@srileo We'll see. I'm somewhat familiar with the geometry as Ive had full suspension bikes with similar numbers and it is great for long days riding trails. I'm not sure how it will feel for long days, say 6 hours of rough but non technical riding. I'd like to do the 1000km bikepacking loop in Kenya and I think with the right cockpit setup it'll be sweet.
@LordFata
Жыл бұрын
Amazing content, again! If I did more loaded touring per year, a gravel bike with this system would be a no brainer for me. Spare belt though, never want to see a group split up again because of a broken belt with no replacement around.
@CarlLaberfeld
Жыл бұрын
i totally get why some people like the electronic trigger shifing and it def has some advantages and its right to exist, but i would have loved to see a mechanichal trigger option with a no battery in the system, please do it denkendorf
@eaze7324
8 ай бұрын
That wouldn't help, the trigger doesn't consume the battery, it's the sensors in the system itself. As long as these aren't e-bikes it would still need an external charge
@Durwood71
8 ай бұрын
There is a company that has developed triggers for Pinion mechanical gearboxes, but they are exclusive to their bikes. So it's obviously possible, and I don't understand why Pinion insists on sticking with grip shifters.
@Nephrak
12 күн бұрын
who are you calling a Denkendorf
@CarlLaberfeld
11 күн бұрын
@@Nephrak look up the town of the pinion headquaters / manufacturing site
@elchaposexcitingadventures1674
5 ай бұрын
You have to praise the engineers to create a gear box in such a small size and light weight. Incredible.
@philipdavis7521
Жыл бұрын
I’m 2 years away from a grand cross-continental trip, still thinking about the bike - this certainly puts a Pinion gearbox top of the list.
@strongbad538
Жыл бұрын
I've done a couple of long term tours with a Pinion gearbox and I can't recommend it enough.
@deenzooka
Жыл бұрын
Anyone remember the GT IT-1 from late 2005/early 2006 ? I got to demo one at a race in Fontana, CA. and loved it ! 8 speed gearbox with twist shifter - always wondered why it never took off - great to see dialed gearbox bikes finally getting to market … awesome ! 🍻
@tristanbogaard
Жыл бұрын
An excellent video and explanation, Alee! I’m excited to test that electronic shifting at some point in the future. Loving my C1.12 so much!
@ronmanganiello6613
8 ай бұрын
My Priority 600X with the grip shift Pinion was stolen about a month ago. My insurance company covered the loss and I'm replacing it with the 600HXT with the electronic shifting. I'll let you know what I think. Looking forward to more news from your bikepacking in Africa! All the best to you and Laura, Ron
@josephlappa8497
6 ай бұрын
And
@BigBoy-ql5rn
Ай бұрын
How is it?
@EricPeelMusic
Жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t bother with this until it comes with 18s and 11.5% steps like the P1.18. I can get more range and smaller steps with my 46/30 rings and 11-40 cassette using GRX di2. Synchro shift makes it feel like. 1x. Half the price and half the weight too. Can go on any bike too. On a more positive note, I had no idea about these drop bar shifters. Thanks for the update, Alee!
@dougfromsoanierana
Жыл бұрын
I used to ride a bike with a Rohloff hub but got frustrated with the mushy shifting on the grip shifter. So this sounds really cool.
@seitenryu6844
11 ай бұрын
Bummer that's how you experienced it. A good cable setup should get you relatively crisp shifting with a Speed hub. I really liked mine when I had it.
@NameNaameNameeNaamee
5 ай бұрын
You can get electronic shifting with shifting under load on the Rohloff as well.
@PetervandaRita
Жыл бұрын
Grip shifters are/were awful. I had one in the early MTB days with a SRAM shifter. Still not for me. But looks promising with electronic shifters. And having more options is always good. And thank you for making this video. Nice to see content from you, again. An updated video about flat bar gravel bikes would be nice 🙂
@vv247
Жыл бұрын
As a runner I put my shoes on and go, no tech necessary. As a cyclist I struggle with these overly technical drivetrains , it seem so over the top for a mountain bike at least. I love the silky smooth chain and derailleur. Great info 👍
@florent1611
Жыл бұрын
The combination of electronic shifting and gearboxes is for sure the future of at least most of the ebikes. I would have expected this kind of products to be compatible with shimano or sram wireless shifters btw.
@eXTreemator
Ай бұрын
No it's not. It's unnecessary
@Nekoffeedrinker
26 күн бұрын
Me encanta cómo avanza el mercado de estos mecanismos. No estoy ni cerca de comprarlos porque yo uso gamas bajas en ciclismo, pero espero que en un futuro esta tecnología se masifique y llegue a todos los mercados. La magia de una bicicleta sin prácticamente mantenimiento es increíble.
@contrastufffs
Жыл бұрын
really cool to see you've been tracking the allto gearbox too. i'm pretty hype for a cheap gearbox, and the guy's youtube videos on the development have been very fun to watch.
@ThiagoMarquardt
2 ай бұрын
Good product probably. I will try to buy a prototype from him.
@stebansb
Жыл бұрын
Interesting to hear about competitors! So no patents? This means the space will improve quickly and prices will become a lot more accessible.
@alexanderSydneyOz
8 ай бұрын
Note that only novel mechanisms are patentable, and gearboxes can be effected in different ways.
@kiko865
Жыл бұрын
again, i thank the early adopters for making this tech for me and my fellow poor mortals to at least be able to afford them used in a few years (decade), i just want more frame manufacturers make a gearbox compatible bikes
@hackfabrication139
Жыл бұрын
Two years ago, I bought a pair of Priority 600 bikes, for myself and wife. I really like the Pinion 12spd. Even though it has it's 'quirks'. The twist shifter is clunky, but functional. I'm excited to hear Pinion is upping their game, with both electronic and mechanical options. However, for the type of cycling we do, I find the gearing a bit too low. Most of my riding is in the 7th-12th range. I only have to 'go low' when tackling an extreme grade. Rarely, and I mean rarely, am I ever in need of 1st gear. And at that point in the climb, I'm going so slow, I worry about losing balance. My 'dream bike' would be a full suspension road/gravel bike, Pinion gearbox, and drops. Titanium frame, carbon fiber wheels, and 30ish mm tires. 10-12 kilos weight, if possible, would be great.
@supremeflagship8965
Жыл бұрын
Why can't Pinion make a hydraulically actuated gear shifter? The main disadvantage of electronic shifting is that you need a battery. You're screwed if you forget to charge your battery (SRAM Eagle AXS I'm looking at you). Then you will have the world's most expensive single speed bicycle. Of course the problem goes away if you have a dynamo hub on your bicycle.
@Cyclingabout
Жыл бұрын
You can also charge the Pinion battery with a small battery pack, which you could keep in the car or garage. If you're travelling, you probably already have one for your phone.
@mtbikesam68
Жыл бұрын
The main disadvantage of these new-fangled automobiles is the fuel tank. If you forget to put gas in it, you're screwed. The main disadvantage to these new-fangled cellular phones is they have a battery. If you forget to charge them, you're screwed. I'm real tired of the charging argument when it comes to electronic shifting. The dead battery fault lies with the user, not the system.
@thorbear
Жыл бұрын
@@mtbikesam68without having tried any electronic shifter, may I provide a counter point: Phone batteries (all batteries) are notorious for losing maximum capacity over time. While I have accepted that I buy a new phone every three years or so (not necessarily due to the battery), I'm not sure if I would feel the same way about expensive bike parts. And if I happen to leave the bike in a shed through winter, or a whole year, will the battery drain over time, and I have to charge it before using the bike? And what about temperatures? Most electronic components struggle in the coldest winters or hottest summers. I'd prefer if my gearbox doesn't explode or lock up.
@climatechangedoesntbargain9140
Жыл бұрын
@@thorbear how many shifts per charge was it again?
@mtbikesam68
Жыл бұрын
@@thorbear all in good fun. I have always enjoyed the tech side of the bike world, but I also have bikes with cables and rim brakes. Some cyclist luddites would scoff at a gearbox at all, claiming one gear is all you need! It's all good. I have had wireless electronic shifting on my mountain bike for almost three years now and have never had a single problem. I keep an extra battery, always stay on top of charging them and I bring the extra with me when I ride. I absolutely love riding my bike, so I have adapted myself to the needs of the electronic system. To each his own! Cheers.
@Anjenito
Жыл бұрын
As I have understood electronic shifting is mandatory for the shifting. I would be a bit hesistant to rely on electronic shifting on tours in remote places. What's your take in it Allee?
@fizban119
Жыл бұрын
This is my biggest issue. I want reliability and lack of maintenance above all else, so electronic components feels bad
@wesleyooms
2 ай бұрын
I have a simple but great idea but I'm looking for people to help realize it. The idea is to put two 11-speed (10-21) cassettes in a small box in opposed direction (close to each other). That way, the chain (15 full links, which is 378mm) is always in line with the input and output shaft, and no derailleur needed (10-21 center to center is just micrometers shorter than 15-16 center to center. This can be taken up by the normal play. I have the calculations and measurements to show that it is possible). Shifting is done with a small cage that moves between the cassettes parallel to the shafts. A bit like a normal front derailleur, except that it is holding both parts of the chain (upper and lower, the part under tension and the part that returns to the output shaft). From my 100.000+km riding indoor on Zwift, I know that chain almost don't wear if it doesn't get dirty. so if you put the chain in a box, you have the advantages of gearbox combined with derailleur. Simply put, the idea is a miniature derailleur inside a (gear)box, or a gearbox where the gears are replaced by sprockets and a chain, depending on how you see it. I've been working on this for some time now but from concept to industrialization is still a long way. Maybe people from within the industry can help me out. I have all the drawings and a buildstand to prove the concept.
@difflocktwo
2 ай бұрын
check the honda bicycle gearbox, same concept. other's have done similar things too.
@AirmanJack
11 ай бұрын
Will be really interesting if one of these gets put on a gravel racer... the number of drivetrain issues that knocked elite racers out of Unbound was shocking.
@steveedwards5280
Жыл бұрын
I've been cycling too long for the shift under load to be an issue but the move to a trigger shifter is really interesting now. Now, if only they can sort out the 12 points of engagement so I can clock the cranks on technical climbs, I'll make the switch.
@psychonaut038
Жыл бұрын
I just shift under load. Lol. I just don't care.
@ThalassTKynn
11 ай бұрын
I use an old hub gearbox, and yeah having to briefly back off the torque when shifting hasn't been an issue for me. I love the idea of a bb gearbox over a hub one, but the price and (in this case) the electronic complexity is a turn off.
@keithjenkins7919
11 ай бұрын
Converted my Moser 1985 steel frame road bike from Campag racing triple to Shimano Alfine 11 speed gear hub with Di2 drop bar shifters, will never go back to derailleurs. The transmission is silent with no freewheel noise and a delight to ride.
@YewtBoot
11 ай бұрын
Great commentary, again, Alee. Agreed that more folks will feel comfortable with the new changes, but seriously, shifting on the current models and with a grip shifter has been absolutely no problem for me the past couple of years.
@therealzilch
Жыл бұрын
Sure. As a lifelong nerd and cyclist, why not? But for me, the gearbox killers are cost and efficiency: they are much more expensive than derailleurs, and not nearly as mechanically efficient. And any halfway smart cyclist doesn't need to shift under load. Great for those who need it, I don't.
@filipeteixeira6707
Жыл бұрын
I just met a guy with a pinion touring Europe . With 3500 km he was starting to have problems
@johandavid9774
Жыл бұрын
I have been waiting this for years! Glad I have not purchaed any other bike.
@skyrunr
Жыл бұрын
Not to mention less/no tuning with the electronics, dropped chains, bent arms, or clogged gears in long grass! I have one gear (6th) that just won't hit on my new GX 12sp. The belt drive would probably take a pant guard nicely. Easily with $1,000 more. I think it would be kind of fun to change the oil on a rainy day, and appreciate the steampunkness of the gears. I think I'd prefer one really nice toggle switch (or dial) for shifting over two buttons. Maybe even one button on the left and one button on the right. I'd still want a mechanical brake levers with a Paul's disk setup though.
@mitchwarren1600
Жыл бұрын
We got dropper posts and tubeless tyres which have been game changers ! Gearboxes are the new No going back option.
@Durwood71
8 ай бұрын
We just need the big boys like SRAM and Shimano to get serious about gearboxes. Introduce some competition in the marketplace. Then we'll see some real innovation.
@eXTreemator
Ай бұрын
No they are not. They are finicky just as "tubeless ready" crap tires are
@WattWireNet
29 күн бұрын
Dropper posts and tubeless tires don't require custom frames, that's the problem.
@alessandrosilveira9009
Жыл бұрын
It is cooler, definitely... But I still love the simplicity of a normal crank !
@desmondmark101
Жыл бұрын
I've been on pinion since 2011. Owned/rode their 18/12 gboxes for years. Recently went back to Sram Eagle. Why? Pinion is great if you dont want to do any maintenance on your drive train. Is it worth the extra weight? No.
@FredDero-b8q
Жыл бұрын
great presentation of the new Pinion. Thanks Your videos are always well done
@Cyclingabout
Жыл бұрын
Many thanks!
@hansschotterradler3772
Жыл бұрын
what's the efficiency compared to a clean derailleur/chain system?
@Surestick88
4 ай бұрын
I feel like this is a horses for courses thing. For mountain bikes (XC racing aside) gearboxes like Pinion really make sense, for gravel, commuting, or cycle touring they make some sense too. For cycle touring and commuting rear hub gears make a lot of sense. For racing (road, XC, gravel) the current efficiency deficit makes for derailleurs still being king. The new Pinion combined motor and gearbox for ebikes makes so much sense it's surprising it took so long to develop. If/when gearboxes can bridge the efficiency and weight gaps i think we'll start seeing them used for everything (unless the UCI goes "full we tod" and bans them from road racing).
@TinyBoatNation
20 күн бұрын
It's FREAKIN LOUD it is! Everyone who brags about this system fails to mention this. You can hear it coming from 5 miles away! No way it takes over the industry.
@brianbob7514
Жыл бұрын
Electronic shifting now fully removes this option for me.
@gerrysecure5874
Жыл бұрын
Gearboxes are way more expensive and considerably less energy efficient than traditional chain systems. May be a solution for someone who is maintenance averse, never learned to shift properly and is riding short distances in flat areas like cities or maybe doing slow long distance tours with luggage where dirt and maintenance are problematic.
@Riley-zp4td
2 ай бұрын
I've got the priority HTX600 as featured in the video. I like the gearbox, but you guys didn't address my biggest issue with it, which is the slow engagement due to the ratchet mechanism in the gearbox. If they were to replace that with something smooth an instant like Shimano had done with their e bike motors, there would be no drawbacks to the new system.
@PrzemyslawSliwinski
Жыл бұрын
Would love to see a tandem with this gearbox. There is a company that offers them already, however, for an unknown (at least to me) reason their implementation requires three belts.
@peglor
Жыл бұрын
I'm trying to work out how it could use 3 belts - unless it was a 3 seater or the gearbox was mounted separate to both riders' cranks for no reason i can think of...
@PrzemyslawSliwinski
Жыл бұрын
@@peglor Search for Co-Motion's Java, Speedster or Mocha tandems.
@dodecahedron1
10 ай бұрын
@@peglor assuming this is about the co-motion pinions, weird layout either because the pinion's design prohibits having both cranks and 2 belts attached to gearbox because its not meant for tandems so they have to treat it the same way as gearing on trikes or because they wanted the gearbox in the middle for weight distribution
@peglor
10 ай бұрын
@@dodecahedron1 Definitely a few good possibilities there alright. I'd be very surprised if there was no way to attach a sprocket to the left crank for the synch chain though. Usually just using a RH crank and helicoiling the pedal thread to change it to a left hand thread so the pedal won't work loose all the time does the job, but the RH crank on a Pinion gearbox doesn't have a sprocket at all, so this isn't an option, so it's down to the BB axle interface.
@christophggcyrus6861
Жыл бұрын
Excellent news - wasn‘t aware of. That is something I have definitively been waiting for!! Hurra!! Thank you 🙏
@martinovallejo
Жыл бұрын
Interesting development, I really like hub and gearbox derailleurs, but I'm still not buying into any form of electronic assistance to shifitng.
@Surestick88
Жыл бұрын
I think there are good and bad implementations of electronics, especially on bikes. For derailleur gears I feel like it's a lot of complication and expense for not much gain. In this situation, where the electronics are used to do something a cable can't (time the shifts for the appropriate part of the pedal stroke) it starts to make sense.
@peterpetrov5831
Жыл бұрын
I love grip shifters
@briseboy
Ай бұрын
Tullio! It was a good 100 years! .2 seconds is shorter than the derailleur chain grind.
@joshuabuilds3051
Жыл бұрын
At the end of the video you can go ahead and add "and rest assured, one day the shifter will stop working and you'll need to buy a new one because its electronic. While grip shift gearbox bikes silently pass you by with their beautiful gates carbon drive" or whatever. I literally paused a podcast about electronic groupsets just failing, unlike cable acuated counterparts (10 speed di2 in particular) and what the endurance of a bike really means.
@ervinn2025
Жыл бұрын
I hope they also release mechanical gearbox without any battery and flat bar shifter
@shafrobert
6 ай бұрын
Lectric eBikes just came out with their Lectric ONE that has one of these standard, along with belt drive. It's the C1.6i. Whole bike costs $1999 or $2199 (long range).
@jokermtb
6 ай бұрын
once gearbox drivetrains sprout a standardized power-point, so a separate combo battery/motor (think of the removable fauza motor battery on a Trek e-caliber bike) can interface with the gearbox, we'll see the final distillation of merging acoustic bikes to electric bikes. All you'd need to do to make your gearbox bike an ebike, is to add a motor/battery power unit and you have an instant ebike, which is a 30 second conversion (pop a panel, and plop one in)....we're so close.
@aintnobodygottime4dat
Жыл бұрын
Can I get a Witness?..... of those who think cycling and electronics just don't mix?
@jonathantatler
Жыл бұрын
These are currently frame specific, are subject to electronic failure and cost your firstborn. Otherwise they sound great
@bozmar1
Жыл бұрын
I m mtbiking only in suny days so derailleurs are lighter , simpler to fix … maybe for commuting gear boxes
@marcin6931
Жыл бұрын
BLE, firmware updates... for a shifter. Ok, you lost me there
@rossmann611
11 ай бұрын
excited that internal low maintenance gear boxes are gaining popularity. the electronic shifting gives me pause, however, i have just seen too much failure and nightmare struggles with endless troubleshooting. "have you tried turning off and on?" ...and ppl think self driving cars/trucks/planes are just around the corner...
@ersonvelasco2531
2 ай бұрын
When i saw the price, suddenly im still happy with my Rohloff and Alfine 11. 😅 but looking forward to that day that i can finally have it.
@jakobw135
Жыл бұрын
The problem with pinion is mostly it's WEIGHT. When it comes to switching gears mechanical is the most reliable followed by hydraulic and in last place is electric or electronic which can have the most issues because of its complexity.
@chadwells7562
Жыл бұрын
A servo motor connected to a digital switch is much less complicated than a late stage Shimano brifter
@seitenryu6844
11 ай бұрын
I'm excited for this, but a bit disappointed they couldn't accomplish some of this with analog techniques. I have a C1.12 on my cargo bike with a belt and I basically do nothing to it except brake adjustments. The off chance that the battery is dead leaves me reluctant to consider this.
@andybiker-hiker4343
7 ай бұрын
We've been using chain/sprocket based drive trains on bike for 100+ yrs so it's high time for a technological revolution in that area. As much as these advances are impressive they won't really take off until the endorsements of major manufacturers and their high profile riders start happening. This next year is when I might finally make the leap to E-MTB. I'd consider a gearbox bike if the major manufacturers offered them
@sicks6six
8 ай бұрын
the automatic selection process of the gearbox is just next level, anyone thinking of having one of these over the last year or so must now think I'm ready I will have one now, running a belt would be a sensible solution, IMO, Derailleurs are a bain for anyone who's had one, they are horrible
@gabiology77
6 ай бұрын
I would like to see gearboxes in all of our bikes except my race rigs. Fortunately it evolved from square tapered to splined connection. The second best option is hub gear with grease button.
@cypvh74
7 ай бұрын
Can’t wait for more e-bikes to have the pinion combined motor/gearbox setup.
@andrewf7754
11 ай бұрын
As soon as I saw this, I could see this is the future of bikes - no more chains, no more derailleurs. Sure, Pinion isn't cheap, but neither was an iPhone when it first became available worldwide in 2009. Now nearly everyone has a smartphone - and many are a lot cheaper than Apple.
@peterbedford2610
Жыл бұрын
Will have wait for pricing for he people. In the mean time, derailleur works fine.
@HarryL2020
6 ай бұрын
This on a high pivot and idler enduro bike would be a dream
@HuntersCyclingAdventures
3 ай бұрын
Love my pinon gear box on my priority 600x
@claudemartin5907
11 ай бұрын
There are already many gravel bikes with a pinion gearbox. But the shifters could certainly be better. If I'd buy a new bicycle today I'd want the new pinion gearbox. But what I have now is great. The only thing better is single speed when you don't go up hill a lot.
@alexhofvander
Жыл бұрын
So it’s time to send Tout Terrain an email telling them I’ll buy an Outback MTB from them if they fit it with this gearbox. I really don’t like gripshift and have been holding off to order. Thanks Alee for this video. Excellent work as always.
@Cyclingabout
Жыл бұрын
Tout Terrain work pretty closely with Pinion. I'm sure they can put something together as soon as the new gearboxes are available!
@scottiehanbacks6595
6 ай бұрын
These bikes are the future hope they get better more affordable
@Durwood71
8 ай бұрын
I was seriously considering the Priority 600HXT as my next mountain bike, but I was able to buy a Trek Roscoe 9 for half the price. Unless they can get the price of gearboxes down, the tried and true chain and derailleur will always remain the most economical option.
@charliebamford2807
Жыл бұрын
Pinion are leading but others will follow. These innovations have a lot to offer non-racing cyclists, which is most of us. Well done Pinion😊
@Smargendorf
11 ай бұрын
Still not sold on electric shifters. I want to keep the amount of things i need to charge as few as possible
@martinsavoie616
Жыл бұрын
A Canadian compagny based in Quebec did get 80% share of Pinion in august 2022. I think that the compagny, Bombardier, was looking to place it self in a good place regarding the e-bike industrie and come out strong... I think that the made a superbe mouve...
@iammarkstewart
Жыл бұрын
As a Canadian, "good" typically isn't the first word we come up with when the topic of Bombardier arises. I hope this doesn't mean the watering down, bastardization or disappearance of Pinion gearboxes.
@martinsavoie616
Жыл бұрын
I understand that, but from what i got on info is that people at Pinion were no fool in this turover... ... You are right, stay tune for sure @@iammarkstewart
@egonheuson
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting! But "ultra-low maintenance... with a battery that will loose power over time 😞" That is actually what prevents me from buying one 😞
@2kMario
8 ай бұрын
Pinion Gearbox Is A Derailleur KILLER I am agree with that 100%
@senorsunset
Жыл бұрын
Kamran on bike! 0:37 That guy is living legend.
@davidhunternyc1
5 ай бұрын
What folding bikes will use the 2024 Pinion Gearbox. Thank you.
@morezco
11 ай бұрын
I just found your channel and I am loving it
@Cyclingabout
11 ай бұрын
Great to hear!
@svr5423
4 ай бұрын
Electric gear shifting is an issue if the gearbox cannot draw power from the bikes onboard generator. Now you need to take care of and carry an extra battery.
@pavelg4990
Жыл бұрын
Great video, Alee. I got a regular c1.12 and am building a frame for it, gates, onyx. Will the new C1.12 e-shifter version fit the same metal cabinet used to house the box in the frame? My plan for now is to use twist shifter on a 22.2 bar end mount placed at the tops of my dropbar, or fit it on 22.2 aero bars. But if I later upgraded to the e-shift pinion, that would be a huge improvement with a trigger shift rig.
@yard2380
Жыл бұрын
As far as I know the mount of a C1.12 and a C1.12i are the same, so you could swap them out. However the box internals are very different, so you need to do a full box swap. (I'm in the same position for my Nicolai GAM, but I might just order a new frame around that new box.) An Onyx hub in combination with Pinion is a great combo btw, it is the least amount of non engagement you can get. :) (The pinion can have, at times, a reasonable large engagement gap, so you can use all the help there.) :) Another plus is that this will be a total silent ride. :) Enjoy!
@imjody
10 ай бұрын
It's happened. We've finally got Bluetooth technology in our bicycle shifters. What a time to be alive! 😆
@philip_shurpik
2 ай бұрын
So actually this transmission competes with good electric bikes for this price. So the question - do you need to spend such a lot of money to get small increase in comfort, but small decrease in efficiency? Or spend same amount to get much more comfort and improve efficiency of your pedalling?
@CRobins96
Жыл бұрын
Hi Alee - would you say the new Pinon would be a better alternative to a Rohloff/Gates combo when looking to build a world touring bike today? Is there any improvement in resistance, and wouldn't electronic shifting just add another point of failure when on the road? Thanks
@Cyclingabout
Жыл бұрын
There are pros and cons to both so it really depends on what you value most from your drivetrain (I made a Rohloff/Pinion comparison video a few years back). The 2024 update probably benefits mountain bikes and gravel bike the most, but I would personally have no qualms travelling with electronic shifting. That said, the prudent thing to do would be to wait a few years to see if any durability issues arise with the electronic components.
@Vinaykumarel
Жыл бұрын
Incredible upgrade for Regular short distance cyclists, but its hard for long distance tourers like us... Any idea on whether it can be implemented in P.18 line for long distance Bike touring?
@mancampovestiminvatam
Жыл бұрын
Killer gearboxes: - don't use batteries (they will not discharge when you want them and you will not be able to charge anytime they discharge) - don't have firmware. Anything that has, is prone to bugs and can be used as gateway to subscription model. - have spare parts available and can be repaired at home (see Right To Repair movement + Louis Rossmann) As you said: price is high becuase quality is high. We know what happens when price goes down. We should learn from the history of the car in order to avoid the same crap happening to bikes.
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