Stoics are not indifferent to life. They are indifferent to their circumstances, and will not let them stand in their way.
@ceeemm1901
2 ай бұрын
So....define "Their Way"
@adels.185
10 ай бұрын
No, you are the one who doesn't understand stoicism. You are portraying stoics as passive people who just accept everything that happens to them without trying to change it. Incorrect. They draw a line, they only apply 'passiveness' or indifference to things that are outside of their control (like death, disease, the weather etc.), they actively fight against things which they don't like that are in their control. The root of stoicism is the understanding of which things are outside of our control, those things we shouldn't try to fight, be upset about or change. But things that are in control (our thoughts and actions) we should fight and change in the way that benefits us or society. Also 'Will you stand up and show us what you're made of'' isn't unstoic at all, in fact that is exactly what the stoics are trying to do (bear whatever life throws at them with dignity and grace). Stoics aren't passive cowards that accept all of their life circumstances, they accept only the ones that they can't change.
@slsilver481
9 ай бұрын
Thanks for this comment
@MTXCPL
8 ай бұрын
you summed it up very nicely, although somewhat a little passive agressive for somebody that (i hope) is trying to live by the stoic principles and thus should be indulgent with others. Wasnt it Seneca who pitied the man who never had to fight in his life for something because he wouldnt be able to know what he is capable of? Accept the things you can not change, everything else: Work your ass off! Amor fati is thus supposed to make you bear those unavoidable and / or unchangable moments in life. When your mother dies, when you lose a limb in a crash, when your boyfriend cheats, when an earthquake destroys your house, when a storm destroys your ship loaded with all your possessions (happened to the "founder" of stoicism, Zeno)
@riccardoronco627
7 ай бұрын
great comment, a pleasure to read.
@Timmerdetimmerdetim
6 ай бұрын
Great rebuttal. Those were my thoughts too.
@Timmerdetimmerdetim
6 ай бұрын
@@MTXCPL What gave you this _somewhat a little passive agressive_ feeling?
@grobolomo2055
3 ай бұрын
man what is this channel? hidden gem. undersubbed
@eggymayo3271
5 ай бұрын
Stoicism repackaged as american self help nonsense. You nailed it with this vid
@delmerman
5 ай бұрын
THANK YOU!! I have thought this for years and can’t believe someone finally agrees with me
@ItsCurtisLife
6 ай бұрын
Think you’ve misunderstood stoic philosophy. Like the “Alpha Males” have on Instagram and TikTok only you’ve gone the other way, where you think that to be stoic you must role over and accept whatever happens to you. Which is not true, the core concept of stoicism is simply to understand what you CAN and CAN’T control - and how to deal with each situation.
@devanshjain5145
23 күн бұрын
Holiday writes " Define a distinction between the critical and the extra. Think progress not perfection. Under this kind of force, obstacles break apart. They have no choice. Since you are going around them or making them irrelevant, there is nothing for them to resist".
@hunterphfr
10 ай бұрын
Whatever Ryan is selling it has worked very well for me.
@vodkaboy
6 ай бұрын
I think learning is always a good experience, even baby steps
@ceeemm1901
2 ай бұрын
I say that about my heroin dealer.
@liketheduck
7 ай бұрын
I think that I’d take an even harder stance against Holiday. Stoicism for him is a means is making money. He’s fundamentally a sophist who shills philosophy without living it. However, to your point about “amor fati” I think Epictetus defends Holiday’s position. “what do you think Heracles would have amounted to if there’d been no great lion, no hydra, stag, and boar, and none of the evil and brutal men he drove off and cleared away? What would he have done if there’d been nothing like that in the world? The answer’s obvious, isn’t it? He’d have wrapped himself up and gone to sleep. In the first place, then, he wouldn’t have become Heracles if he’d dozed his life away in this kind of peaceful comfort. And even if he had, what good would it have done him? What use would he have made of his arms and his strength in general? What would have been the point of his fortitude and nobility if there’d been no difficulties such as he faced, no materials to stir him to action and train him?” We are not called to be passive but to accept our role (which may be the role of “challenger”) and to live in accordance with nature (to justly act). Maybe stoicism is existentialist in that within our confines (time, place, gravity, “the ruling principle,” or the will of the gods) we are challenged to be fundamentally free and “obligated” to act justly and not succumb to injustice (or hurdles that look like fate but are within our control and are “preferred indifferences.”) Thanks for making great content! Sorry for the wall of text.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
7 ай бұрын
Thanks for this feedback. And no need to apologize for the wall of text; it was necessary. I wonder though if it's not outside of Heracle's fateful position to act nobly and courageously. I mean it would seem to be outside of the line of fate for Heracles to not stand up to such great opposition. However, to ask the same of a peasant, or to assume Fate has designed for them something worthy of demi-god-like reputation and should thus act accordingly, is a different story...So the conservative stoic would say.
@therenaissanceyorkshireman9278
8 ай бұрын
Ryan Holiday tosses around the phrase "anti-vaxxer", without ever defining it. I find it hard to take him seriously, which is a shame because he's usually a deep thinker.
@djtoman6875
20 күн бұрын
That's a damned shame. But not everyone can be on the same page at the same time. If he's not already irreparably damaged by the injections there's always a chance that he comes to a more holistic and objective viewpoint.
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
He’s really not a deep thinker
@tesserae-c2y
4 ай бұрын
You have no idea what you are talking about. Study some more Philosophy. You don't understand it yet.
@bradlybancroft8605
10 ай бұрын
Thank you! This new version of Stoicism, or Broicism, has irritated and interested me for a long time and I could never understand why. Now I understand, its the Existentialism that gets added in that makes it compelling for me.
@krumbergify
2 ай бұрын
What is wrong about combining multiple philosophies and creating a synthesis? It is called development.
@eb9450
3 ай бұрын
I’ve looked into Stoicism for 15+ years, both through personal study and academically, and so I was initially happy that it became popularized by those like Ryan Holiday …but lately I’ve seen how it has been rebranded. There are still great teachers like Massimo Pigliucci who present Stoicism authentically. Others have skimmed over the parts that they think makes Stoicism look “soft” because it won’t work for the hustle culture message or other ulterior agendas. Of course one cant deny that discipline is a significant part of Stoicism but it is also a virtue based school of philosophy which can positively affect your social relationships. Amazing channel btw. Just subscribed! 💁🏾♀️
@chrisjackson9626
12 күн бұрын
I agree regarding Massimo Pigliucci, he has an excellent way of putting some of these concepts across, with humility and humour. Currently reading How to be Good which is worth a read.
@benzur3503
10 ай бұрын
Camus isn’t an existentialist. Stop calling someone who’s most famous book is cover to cover “I HATE EXISTENTIALISTs AND AM NOT ONE OF THEM.” It’s unfair to their work
@benzur3503
10 ай бұрын
@@konara_ every philosophy is footnotes on Plato, it is still reductive to call everything a platonism. Especially when you ignore the attempts to subvert it being that, successful or not. I can’t stand a criticism of a pop philosopher providing pop philosophical interpretations as a counterargument.
@benzur3503
10 ай бұрын
@@konara_ by that reasoning Karl Marx should be called a capitalist because that’s the immediate philosophical environment he’s reacting to. And existentialism doesn’t deal with the role but with the experience. Skipping over the phenomenological aspects of existentialism is another reason people mistake their claims to be metaphysical instead of attempting to describe universally common aspects of internal experience. People keep talking about it as if any of its speakers demanded an ethics. Sartre couldn’t decide if Bad Faith was just part of our necessary function in the world through his whole life but you wouldn’t see that mentioned anywhere. Serious scholars get reduced to inspirational quotes and have all their depth gutted out. Especially because this channel doesn’t discard the original parts of stoicism which are often omitted from the philosophy for a cleaner one sentence aphorism I am disappointed from such reckless reductionism.
@michaelriojas3831
2 ай бұрын
Absurdism is basically a branch of existentialist
@ari.mann.
Ай бұрын
technically not an existentialist because he distances himself from it but he be hanging around with sarte, de beavoir, rene char, etc. so it's like 85% similar
@philipbagnall375
5 ай бұрын
While I agree that Holiday's marketing of Stoicism is very self-help-ish, this video portrays Stoicism as far too passive. 'Amor fati' is a reminder that we all have only one end, and that we have a duty to live our lives out before we reach that end. Just because we are bound to the ultimate fate of death, it does not mean embracing indifference in the meantime.
@whitemakesright2177
4 ай бұрын
If anything, the Stoic concept of "amor fati" is more like the Hindu concept of "dharma" than it is passivity. There are actions which you are duty-bound to perform, regardless of the outcome. In many circumstances, your duty and your fate is to fight with all your strength.
@unclassedmedia
10 ай бұрын
thank you for saying it.
@thedarknight5714
10 ай бұрын
I always felt that this guy was off in a way but I could never articulate it myself. Thanks for this video. Yours and Academy of Ideas are my favorite philosophy channels on YT.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the vid. And that's quite the compliment, thank you!
@Faenwolf
4 ай бұрын
It amazes me that this video has not more views and comments. Thanks for challenging. Keep up this important work.
@colino5056
2 ай бұрын
It’s a decent intro to stoicism but with any new skill or belief I have found it beneficial to learn from the people who started it or made it so successful. One can argue the self-help spin is positive because it would open the philosophy to more people. It goes with the times. Seneca thought it was fitting to have your core beliefs come from your own code of ethics and moral standards, and then align it with the majority of people or society’s typical standards.
@jimmyeveryman6418
Ай бұрын
The Gigachad meme actually came to life and is teaching us philosophy. I'm in
@markothwriter
3 ай бұрын
We so needed this
@abelzoni2138
3 ай бұрын
Absolutely unfair criticism. There are no gatekeepers to Stoicisms. Read and apply. There are no absolute rules but a framework of principles. Read and apply. Stoicism was very intouch with nature and each other. That doesn't mean I'm moving into a commune. In today's world that may mean to help others and give to charity. It is difficult to teach application and but easy to criticize.
@SevenUnwokenDreams
10 ай бұрын
Ryan Holiday got me into philosophy, but once I started reading the text, I got less and less into what he was selling. Stoicism to me turned out to be very passive and not like what he preaches. He is very self-helpy, and I think he uses his marketing skills, throwing the word "Stocicim" on it as his little edge. Not that he isn't out there motivating and helping people, but again, after reading Meditations and Discourses, they're just not quite the same as what he talks about. Still, I am glad he got me into philosophy, and now that I know classic Stoicism isn't for me, I am looking into what to read next.
@eggymayo3271
9 ай бұрын
If you think stoicism is passive you're reading it wrong. The texts explicitly say you have to go out into the world to apply it and to respond virtuously based on rationality not emotion
@alandoyle3442
5 ай бұрын
'default to action' is hardly passive, soft lad
@Zack-xz1ph
5 ай бұрын
"You can also commit injustice by doing nothing." Marcus Aurelius
@jasonluckett2263
3 ай бұрын
Having watched some of his vids, I always wondered how some of his stuff mapped to what little I knew of stoicism. Thanks for the analysis.
@SteveC484
3 ай бұрын
Should have included him throwing a fit about Trump while he preaches stoicism 😂
@zediogo8860
8 ай бұрын
i suggest you to reread the meditations by marcus aurelius (if you ever read it). Your understanding of stoicism is just wrong. Read also Seneca
@SaleemRanaAuthor
10 ай бұрын
This was brilliant. Flat out right!
@jonfibonacci
6 ай бұрын
Using his name to attempt to grow your audience and engagement is pretty shallow. I think real value would take you a lot further.
@vulpesregis
5 ай бұрын
Dude his points are super valid. If you knew anything about stoicism you wouldn’t just blindly support and advocate for Holiday.
@jonfibonacci
5 ай бұрын
@@vulpesregis I’ve read Pigliucci, William Irvine, Nancy Sherman, Donald Robertson, Eric Weiner, and many books from Ryan Holiday. I’ve already read Meditations many times. Discourses and selected writings from Epictetus, Letters from Seneca, and about half of Inner Citadel from Pierre Hadot. Ryan excludes a few things from his main teachings but he’s a great teacher and writer. Try making a point with real substance.
@breezzythumper
4 ай бұрын
…not to be led astray into a passion for rhetoric…or deliver little moralizing sermons, or play the ascetic or the benefactor in a manner calculated to impress; to abstain from oratory, and verse and fine language…and not to be satisfied with a superficial impression; not to agree too quickly with those who talk with a fluent tongue… - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 1:7 …not to be over-critical; and not to interrupt and correct those who have employed a solecism or some outlandish or discordant expression, but rather to suggest adroitly the expression which ought to have been used while professing to offer a reply or some further confirmation, or to join in a debate on the matter itself rather than the diction, or to use some other tactful procedure to suggest the right expression in an indirection fashion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations We can’t learn that which we think we already know, Epictetus reminds us. We must always keep our minds open. We must not be prideful at how far we have come. We should be humbled by the distance that looms in front of us. So we must never think that we have arrived, only that we remain on a journey to which there is no end. -Daily Stoic
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
@@jonfibonaccithen you need to read them again
@ZeroToPatrick
2 ай бұрын
His open letters to his father begging him not to vote for Donald Trump really soured me on that guy. I'm politically unattached (i.e. - All politicians are horrible people) and that really turned me off on a guy who portrays himself as having the wisdom and strength of stoicism.
@SmartStr33t
10 ай бұрын
Yes, Holiday's philosophy is popular because it maps so closely onto modern Americanism.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
Facts
@markcampbell8158
9 ай бұрын
Ryan is a brilliant marketing man. Yes he is using the stoic ideals with a modern twist, it’s called sales. Even in your 5:14 comments, what is wrong with getting people to think ? Your points were interesting.
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
@@markcampbell8158he’s not getting people to think. He’s dressing up self help cliches that they already believe in the legitimacy of ancient philosophy and selling it to them. Nobody who reads philosophy or knows anything about antiquity takes him seriously. Stoicism is not a way of living for him; it’s a brand to milk
@VersesAMV311
7 ай бұрын
Things get adapted to modern times, you just claimed he's not a "traditional stoic." So what? Do you live the way people lived 2k yrs ago? Nah, youre trying to get views by doing a 5 min reach to try and get views off his fame. But I can't control you, do what you want. Lol.
@TheParadiseParadox
10 ай бұрын
a couple of things you said seem to present a contradiction. you say that stoicism says to bring your mentality in line with nature, accepting your destiny. later you say that Holliday is mistaken for saying feel great about what happened feeling great about what happened seems very much like accepting or embracing your destiny. so why the criticism
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
Good observation, thanks for the feedback. There's a subtle difference here because what Mr. Holiday is advocating in his philosophy is to "rage against reality"--to attempt to change the conditions of your world if you desire to do so. All the while believing that what's happening to you has been divined in such a way as to bring out your best life. This is the cosmology of Mr. Holiday's amor fati. But if you look into traditional stoicism, you'll find that that spirit of thought which drives Mr. Holiday's statement, "will you stand up and show us what you’re made of?” is completely absent. That's just the self-helpy voice that he injects into the stoics. And more to my point, the traditional stoics believed in a cosmology that encouraged a resignation to the life events you find yourself in, accepting that what makes a better life is not altering your current state of affairs (running away from slavery if you were a slave, for example), but simply changing your perspective (e.g., how can I be the best slave possible). So this is why the criticism. It's to bring awareness that there is a difference between the pop-stoicism of Mr. Holiday and traditional stoicism.
@ciaio
4 ай бұрын
Well, it suffices to say that Ryan Holiday is a professional marketer. He used to write bad marketing self-help books before he came up on the stoicism trend. Frankly, everything he does comes off as disingenuous simply because he's trying way too hard to sell you his product. He repackaged stoicism the way he did because he understands the market and knows there are dummies hungry for diluted 'wisdom'. Neither you, nor I are the 'target market'. I guess his approach to stoicism is something that works well for the general American public, but personally I can't stand looking at the guy.
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
Oh thank you for writing this. I thought it was just me. I like Seneca and Epictetus. And I think they would have laughed Holiday out of the room.
@paulsprague6652
10 ай бұрын
I'm not a Ryan Holiday fan, as making money off Stoicism is the least Stoic thing I can think of. I would argue though that you over-simplify existentialism. For Kierkegaard, it was the struggle against the angst and absurdity of existence which results in faith, and acceptance. In this way, I think Kierkegaard was more Stoic than Ryan Holiday. Dwelling on the themes of the Platonic "being and becoming" is fundamentally existential.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
Thanks for the feedback. I definitely try to simplify existentialist themes within these short video, so I somewhat agree with you there. I'm not sure I follow you though with Kierkegaard. I mean I think you''re right in that his thinking overlaps with stoic principles, but I don't know how adding that would strengthen the point that Holiday himself is more existential than stoic (which was the point of the video).
@djw3512
6 ай бұрын
Making money off of stoicism for him isn’t wrong at all though. How can you sell a book without having it cost money? Make it free? In that case he’d actually be losing money as he has to pay to market it and all that. He’s spreading his philosophy, which is helping countless people. Making money off of it is just a byproduct
@user-cl1rv8vl7x
8 ай бұрын
Ryan lost me when he entertained one of the Koch brothers and his son, in yet another attempt by them to rebrand, while never once addressing the elephant in the room.
@haraldcarlsten6238
4 ай бұрын
I think you have a point. Definitely. Ryan Holiday is first and foremost an business guy selling a simplified pill labelled "modern stoicism". I have spent a lot of time at uni studying philosophy and have later in life read quite a lot stoicism and I always find Ryan's reasoning dissonant without really understanding why (without mentioning his final sales pitches which just is modern era media I think...). You gave it words even though I think you are pushing it a little to hard. I think actually the point of "memento mori" is to make the best out of it and not just embracing your faith mindlessly.
@haraldcarlsten6238
4 ай бұрын
And Ryan Holiday is pretty fresh if you compare it to a lot of other much more simplified thought commodities out there on social media...
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
The concept of memento mori is not for normal people to beat themselves over the head with their mortality. It is a check against hubris, one that, say, an emperor might need to keep in mind.
@mikekatzman9772
6 ай бұрын
I think you’re missing the point here. Embracing reality is not inconsistent with trying as hard as you can to overcome a challenge, provided that you accept whatever happens after you make the attempt was never up to you - the only thing you can control is the decision to make the attempt. I don’t think Ryan Holiday has ever endorsed anything akin to the “you can do whatever you put your mind to” American dream idea. Quite the opposite. Your definition of amor fati is more determinism and nihilism than anything - fate is set so never try to effect change. I’m certain that’s not what the phrase was ever intended to mean. I think this analysis is less than thoughtful.
@AmandaR-z7m
9 ай бұрын
A very interesting perspective which I found helpful. I’m not schooled in all the traditional aspects of philosophy so don’t feel qualified to comment on them. Is this guy being used by others in an effort to steer the masses? Is he adapting the work of others to suit his message? Is he making a good living from this ? Hell yeah but hey we all gotta eat and clothe are kids. Having said all that I find what he is saying to be very useful in my daily life whatever it’s called. It helps me get my head in order and work out how to tackle difficulty when I face it. He comes across as a genuine character who walks the walk and talks the talk in his life. I think that’s all I want to say.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
9 ай бұрын
Those are fair observations, and I agree with you for the most part...for what it's worth he has done a good job of motivating a lot of people with philosophy.
@CB-vt3mx
4 ай бұрын
Never heard of him...but I've heard his psychobabble. His babble is nothing new--at all.
@saltwampa6079
3 ай бұрын
I don't want to ascent to appearances, but Holiday does seem to dangle the carrot of wealth, power, and self-made, existential, American-dream-ism as motivation. Though it is actually the case that a stoic may harden one's self against aversion by accepting external hardship as a challenge, if the goal is seeking recognition, esteem, importance, reputation, or some rags-to-riches plot line than this person shouldn't really be called a Stoic. Epictetus: "When you have brought yourself to supply the necessities of your body at a small price, don't pique yourself upon it; nor, if you drink water, be saying upon every occasion, "I drink water." But first consider how much more sparing and patient of hardship the poor are than we. But if at any time you would inure yourself by exercise to labor, and bearing hard trials, do it for your own sake, and not for the world; don't grasp statues, but, when you are violently thirsty, take a little cold water in your mouth, and spurt it out and tell nobody (Enchiridion 47)."
@uberdonkey9721
6 ай бұрын
Stoics weren't identical in their philosphy. I think this video misrepresents Stoic philosphy. It's more about understanding what is under your control and what isn't. Certainly it wasn't blind acceptemce, but focussing action on what you can do. So, ues, Ryan is different from classical Stoicism amd I feel he had made his own interpretation of it, for a modern world. That's probably why he's popular, cos some parts of Stoicism are esoteric and don't ring well in an era of modern science. I think most appreciate that Ryan doesn't present classical Stoicism, and that he's presenting his version of Stoicism, based on his logical analysis, and for me, that's fine. He also refers us to other Stoics so we can be broader in our understanding of Stoicism. Anyway, Ryan is pretty good, and leads people to greater understanding.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
6 ай бұрын
Well said, sir. He does repackage stoicism with his own spin, and I think he does it well...You're not the only one who appreciates that he isn't earnest about presenting classical stoicism
@igortirkajla8042
3 ай бұрын
@@TurtleneckPhilosophy "You're not the only one who appreciates that he isn't earnest about presenting classical stoicism" How exactly you came up with that conlusion? The original sentence is "I think most appreciate that Ryan doesn't present classical Stoicism, and that he's presenting his version of Stoicism, based on his logical analysis, and for me, that's fine" - so, how did you conclude that the other party appreciates "that he isn't earnest about presenting classical stoicism", since they clearly didn't say such thing. It seems like you lowkey insulted them.
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
But here’s the thing. He’s not reinterpreting stoicism. Have you ever read his stuff? It’s just like Robert Greene’s tripe: a collection of historical anecdotes emulsified into cliches about themes that have Stoics have also considered. There is none of the irony, none of acknlowedgement of real life ending suffering, and any appreciation of the stakes. It’s more or less career counseling or self help with moral buzzwords. There was a name for this kind of suasion, a pejorative that a more literate culture used to recognize: it’s called Sophistry.
@markothwriter
3 ай бұрын
Aristotle, Socrates, Plato would say to rise above this and live a virtuous life. That is the answer to regret and pain. And do not be ashamed to be a man of virtue. In fact, be proud that you are a man of virtue.
@zenthegeneral
5 ай бұрын
The cool thing about philosophy is that it morphs and changes to suit the times and the needs of it's current practitioners, we learn new lessons from the same teachers over time
@Faterson2007
17 күн бұрын
Both this youtuber & Ryan Holiday share the same flaw, philosophically speaking: focusing on -isms and labels, instead of ideas/philosophy themselves. I couldn't care less about whether Ryan Holiday's output is "Stoicism" (pure, modified, corrupted, repackaged, or otherwise) or any other -ism. The only thing that matters to me are the ideas presented by Holiday. And those are frequently admirable. If anything, Holiday is _restricting_ himself by riding "Stoicism" as his exclusive pony, instead of philosophy in general terms. Because in this way, Ryan can only write about or promote ideas that are "Stoic" or can (frequently, with lots of effort and awkwardly) be _labeled_ as Stoic, because that's Ryan's brand. It's an uncomfortable, self-imposed restriction from a philosophical point of view, but I guess it pays off from a business point of view. "Ryan Holiday, the Texas philosopher" - that would hardly be marketable and sounds slightly ridiculous; but "Ryan Holiday, the Daily Stoic author" has a unique ring to it, it's his business brand, and so he must stick to it - to the detriment of his philosophy. I'm a subscriber to Ryan Holiday's daily newsletter, and some of them are outstanding, but they are frequently too long and wordy, so I often only skim through them, instead of reading them carefully (which I do with some other, more succinct daily newsletters I receive). I also sometimes listen to the Daily Stoic podcasts, although those (especially the interviews) tend to be long-winded as well. Overall, my assessment of Ryan Holiday is positive. I've now also subscribed to this KZitem channel, and let's see where it gets us from here. (Ironically, I got here after clicking on a KZitem video thumbnail in Ryan Holiday's Daily Stoic email newsletter. After Ryan's promotional video for his "world tour" finished playing, this critical Turtleneck video was the first suggestion that came up. Well played, KZitem algorithm!) 😂
@scottccmaclean
2 ай бұрын
It seems as if you are conflating stoicism and fatalism. Stoicism teaches to accept the circumstances and move forward towards your duty to be virtuous, not to submit to circumstances and resign.
@chuckmaxfield7787
3 ай бұрын
De Rerum Natura also halps to explain tis confusion. I find a lot of contemporary Stoic thought is more like Epicurus than Epictetus.
@ColinCampbell-mf9sr
6 ай бұрын
when you read the original works of stoicism you quickly realize it has a large religious mystical side. Accepting ones fate was in fact accepting Zeus (or the Nous). Reason was a daimon, (or a part of the universal Nous/intelligence at other times), and to reason was to be under the inspiration of a what is in modern english would be called a demi-god, Much more merged into intuition or a specific guardian spirit that accompanies one through events of ones life.Eudaimmonia, the goal of Stoicism was to be possessed by the daimon of well being A lot of experts in the field say you can't extract these principles from the texts and end up with the same thing. Doesn't mean bad, just something else.
@vulpesregis
5 ай бұрын
It’s identical to El->Yaweh->Yaushua bringing the “nous”/(mind) = word of God in order to see, call and be possessed by the Holy Spirit. Regardless of how modern Christianity has romanticised all that to a particular religious essence which “Christ” never asked for. Same goes for Tao Te Ching’s “The way” and the power over it.
@inflatus1
10 ай бұрын
Spot on!
@TheFinancePod
3 ай бұрын
Great take, very well thought out!
@TheStoicGrowth
3 ай бұрын
Have you even read a stoic book? Becuse this information seems ^retarted^ Sorry
@acclac813
6 ай бұрын
Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator is his earlier work. Not sure at this point if he will jump to another philosophy hype...
@matthewcaldwell8100
19 күн бұрын
He’ll milk this one forever. The secret sauce isn’t a hunger for enlightenment, it’s male insecurity. And that ain’t going anywhere.
@Jamesgalc-gs8wu
10 ай бұрын
This was well done.
@yahitschris
10 ай бұрын
Turt with the bangers.
@holaizzy
3 ай бұрын
The philosophy of stoicism vs existentialism.... Nicely noted :)
@GaryBryanDobbsSales
7 ай бұрын
In your argument, I can't help but think what does it mean to be free? What does it mean to be natural? If both are different but can so easily be interrupted as the same, then what makes them different? With what I know now that difference is confidence. If I am confident then I am free to do as I wish. If I am not confident I feel natural to do as I wish. This is like choosing a sport to play versus a sport choosing to play me. Where do my feelings rest?
@francescolisboa903
Ай бұрын
Ryan looks like a pro bullshiter to me
@Zack-xz1ph
5 ай бұрын
Didn't tradition stoicism still teach the dichotomy of control? And didn't Marcus Aurelius say the obstacle is the way? I interpret "fate" as the result of things out of your control
@frankm4611
5 ай бұрын
Just browsing thru and I saw this. Marcus wasn’t a stoic. They just lump his “book” in with the philosophy because he borrows a lot, like a lot a lot, from it in his notes. The notes were never truly meant to be made out like they have been. Though that doesn’t make the wisdom that can be found in them any less meaningful. My point being Marcus had his own ideas about how stoicism should or could be applied. Like anyone of us.
@ceeemm1901
2 ай бұрын
"How to Win Friends and Stoic Them"
@wiseturtule
10 ай бұрын
Awesome as always! My prediction: 100k subs within 1 year!
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
Haha, I appreciate the confidence, Victor 🙏🏼
@tonyportillo1120
4 ай бұрын
I have to say I like your video but I desagree with it. While it might be true that Holiday does not live as a stoic (who really cares if he does) it is also true that his capacity to expose stoicism is outstanding. I loved his books since they compile practical examples of the stoics principles. Ego is the enemy set a before and after in my life. He is not an academic philosopher, he is a man very skillful to make money but in my opinion thanks to his great marketing talent many of us have known this beutiful philosophy. In regards to one of your point in the video, I think non of us can say we are stoics in all aspects of life. As you may know, that was one the highest frustrations Epictetus had to deal with. Cheers my friend. I have to get to know your work better.
@KlassicKolt5612
2 ай бұрын
I love your channel. But I thoroughly disagree with you on this. There are different tenets of stoicism. Holliday's interpretation is a positive aspect of stoicism in the same vein of Marcus Aurelius. True, he is existentialist to a degree. But the core interpretation of positive stoicism is to focus on the things within your control while accepting the things that aren't.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
2 ай бұрын
Thank you for your thoughtful opinion. As you say, it's this modern stoicism that is the main thrust of Holiday's philosophy (typified by focusing on what you can control and not on the things you can't). So no disagreement there...But the fact that it's updated to emphasize human agency and discount the traditional concept of Fate--to the point that it's encouraged that any individual can become whatever they want--is a significant restructuring of the old philosophy. And yes, imo that would even have Marcus Aurelius raise a curious eyebrow.
@luckystarship2275
2 ай бұрын
Holliday is a one trick pony. He's basically said all that he's got to say and now just keeps repeating it ad nauseum.
@Dr_Larken
4 ай бұрын
All these negative comments! We live in a world where we’re still allowed to have opinions and say what we want regardless what other think! He gives you the information , his opinion, his analyst, it is for you to make the decision to be informed! But we especially in western society attack people because they think different. They have different opinions! I mean you take the good, take the bed and there you have it the facts of life!
@Besotted85
10 ай бұрын
Alright. Propbs to you there buddy!
@thehotsixer1
4 ай бұрын
Aurelius is spinning in his grave.
@DanielJahn
2 ай бұрын
I have read original stoic writing and Ryan holidays books. I can say you misrepresent stoicism in this video. Ryan holiday has talked about how some of the things he does goes against stoic philosophy.
@rationalityrules111
10 ай бұрын
Finally someone said it!
@wilfredv1930
4 ай бұрын
Yes I agree with you but you need go deep, maybe a series of videos about this topic. People like Holiday are misleading philosophical concepts for people, especially what he use to consider himself, stoic.
@GoodPeoplePodcast
10 ай бұрын
This video is fire
@modernoverman
4 ай бұрын
Yeah i think the trend of "modern stoicism" shares problems with modern cynicism. The ancients had a much different conception of the philosophies, but modern influencers warp and change the already diluted message.
@ayyanali2220
4 ай бұрын
Man has presented his case on the basis of evidence. Let's see if I will i agree with him or not after my personal research.
@MethodOverRide
3 ай бұрын
How about we have some new philosophical thoughts rooted in modern time instead?
@nateshepardson1204
2 ай бұрын
Yanni? Laurel? Feels like you're splitting hairs because you have a slightly different take on Stoicism
@CL_TheSource
10 ай бұрын
Why target someone doing good work? Instead why not use your talent and skills to build your own brand instead of using it to try and tear someone else down? There are real enemies out there to combat and Ryan Holiday ain’t one of them. Is he perfect? No, but he does work for the good side of humanity. Come on man, use your energy and smarts better. It’s one thing to disagree with someone but to put your energy and effort into something like this is beyond lame.
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
I happen to agree with you. I think Mr. Holiday is doing good work for humanity. And even though I may come across as accusatory in some parts of the video, the point was to make a logical case for why his ideas align with more existentialist thought than stoic. Which is not a bad thing thing, it's just a matter of philosophical correctness.
@CL_TheSource
10 ай бұрын
@@TurtleneckPhilosophy thanks for clarifying and I get what you’re saying. I also understand your thumbnail was created to get clicks but it just seems like an attack on someone who is highly respected all to gain traction on your own video. The video itself was well done, truly. You have great skills and even though I disagree with a lot in the video I understand your point but it could be damaging to someone else’s reputation (in this case Ryan Holidays). Either way, the work you do is obviously your choice. I just think you could use your energy and skills in a more positive way. Peace ✌🏽
@Yupjjhh
7 ай бұрын
@@TurtleneckPhilosophyRyan is a shill for the jab
@vulpesregis
5 ай бұрын
@@CL_TheSourceIf a Mother teresa was stating she was actually a man I would do everything in my power to expose that lie. Because despite her attributes to humanity she is supporting something fundamentally wrong. And when someone has this much power it can easily influence and confuse people.
@carlranger8060
5 ай бұрын
He's just pointing out Holiday's philosophy is not Stoic.
@flippy6553
4 ай бұрын
How do you give a video 2 thumbs up? 👍🏻👍🏻
@Mattebby20
6 ай бұрын
The dude refuses to bring up Christ that’s why I stopped listening to him. Paul washer, David Wilkerson, and Leonard Ravenhill.
@Dr_Larken
4 ай бұрын
Maybe because he’s talking about real people real philosophers! Not imaginary ones fictional ones!
@zakkmiller8242
8 ай бұрын
FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY!!!! Thank you for challenging this dude and his horseshit peddling. This guy will eventually be up there with Gary V and all those other self help bros who make a living by selling a whole lot of nothing to people willing to buy it lmfao
@djw3512
6 ай бұрын
Ryan Holiday has helped countless people. So he’s not selling a whole lot of nothing. He’s helped thousands upon thousands of people. Idk why you would waste your time hating on a guy who’s helping people. That’s the definition of jealous
@Aczxser
9 ай бұрын
Ryan Holiday's "Will to publish instagram quotes"
@davidtate166
11 күн бұрын
I like stoicism.but all ism have a dark side.his stoicism is for the 21st century.
@maximilliantallafus973
3 ай бұрын
I find Ryan Holiday is good for people who haven't been exposed to any form of philosophy and would feel intimidated by reading the stoics directly. So as a general easy read primer he is okay, and his use of marketing allows a wider audience to be aquinted with the stoics. I do find that his take on the stoics is perhaps tilting more towards a western version of Buddhism or taoism, which is not really the case. The stoics may have accepted fate (amor fati), but they were by no means docile, infact their works continually extoll us to not shirk from difficulties nor retreat from the world to be hermits. Ryan Holiday also emits that the stoics were also devout people, and believed that god/s bestowed upon humanity reason to work with one another, and that it was our devine duty (thus in accordance with nature) to strive to be our moral best and to do well for ourselves, towards others and the world around us.
@decaalv
10 ай бұрын
And why are you so mad? What's wrong with Ryan capitalizing on the topic that he enjoys and has spent half of his life trying to understand? What is wrong with Ryan trying to help others?
@TurtleneckPhilosophy
10 ай бұрын
There's nothing wrong with that. I didn't speak to any of those points...There's nothing wrong with Mr. Holiday capitalizing on what he understands. There's also nothing wrong with him trying to help other people.
@ChrisBallinger-v1m
9 ай бұрын
I joined daily stoic life never received the good this man is a fraud
@eggymayo3271
9 ай бұрын
Trying to help for just the low low price of £15! Get more help for just another £3.99!
@carlranger8060
5 ай бұрын
I'd suggest Holidays philosophy was more akin to an 80s self help author.
@cypress_piper
4 ай бұрын
Good stuff. I can't stand pop-stoicism! You can "become what you want to be", in the sense of externals (office, health, wealth, etc) fate permitting per traditional Stoicism. BUT these are not "good", merely preferred indifferents. Fate may or may not have these things in mind for you, and not attaining them should not trouble you. It is wiser to focus on the true good, virtue, and become what you truly are by means of what is truly up to you.
@StrikingCrayon
3 ай бұрын
I think you're being overly semantic. Though you need hot takes to drive engagement and growth?
@PK-ug3ul
6 ай бұрын
Hello Chad
@fromnewusa
2 ай бұрын
Before every Ryan Holiday video is a self promotion spiel about how many books he has wrote and corporations he has been invited to lecture. Way too much "Look at Me"
@giovannimerced2926
10 ай бұрын
interesting
@theImpalerman
4 ай бұрын
no.
@dallas1891
5 ай бұрын
Stoicism is pretty gay tbh
@Goliad_Respector
3 ай бұрын
A.) There is NO such thing as “Judeo-Christian.” It’s an oxymoron. B.) Ask John Calvin about “free will?”
@zsuzsablom6256
5 ай бұрын
What a shame. Another hater. Shame on you.
@jasongallman2032
2 ай бұрын
A thoughtful criticism is not "hating".
@cumoforspotify
4 ай бұрын
Oh no, honey. We don't accept our destiny so willingly. We know God gave us rational qualities to overcome fate and fortune. It looks like submission but it's not. In not following God and Nature you harm yourself. And what we accept is not in order to suffer or because there is no way out, but mostly because it is indifferent. The only evil is not living up to he highest good. And the highest good is something easy to get for all, slave and king alike. It's difficult to act out. Not acting it out is the only true evil.
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