The problem I have with this response is that if cardinal siri was elected and became pope but then threatened so severely he was forced into exile allowing usurpers to take the seat then why would he suddenly just blow the cover a few years later when asked in an interview? Not to mention he could have just said no I’m not the pope and laughed at the idea but he didn’t he was deeply troubled by whatever happened that day and refused to answer.
@davegaetano7171
6 жыл бұрын
If Cardinal Siri chose a papal name, he must have first accepted.
@JBQ86
6 жыл бұрын
Good point.
@terrylm235
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, accepted and forced aside. His resignation or acquiescence would have been invalid.
@NonnaTradCat
2 жыл бұрын
Yes. And the white smoke would not have been released if the new Pope had not yet chosen a name. Siri was legitimately elected, chose the name Gregory XVII, the white smoke was released...then 2 days later, roly poly John appeared 🤔🤫🤐
@thomase.zimmermann1165
Жыл бұрын
@@thesiriproject3840 > The explanation on your channel is the only one that makes sense to me. Obviously, like most people I am not in a position to eveluate all claims made. But the Siri-theory (or what I should call it) explains perfectly, why everything in the (visible) Church went wrong since 1958. All other explanations are in some way or other rasing more questions than they are answering.
@joro4755
5 жыл бұрын
just think, if he was Pope he would have reigned until 1989! we can dream can't we
@mZaoa
4 жыл бұрын
If Siri was elected Pope, then he DID reign til 1989. If he was 'forced' to resign, under pressure, he didn't legally resign. Consequence: John 23 onwards are invalid - they were/are anti popes.
@vincentreyes6154
4 жыл бұрын
@@mZaoa Question: If a supposed future claimant to the papacy were to recognize Cardinal Siri as Pope Gregory XVII as we do and were to expel John XXIII and his successors as invalid papal usurpers (and hopefully declare Vat II invalid), would that same pontiff who elevates Pope Gregory be a true pope or still an invalid pope since he's a successor to John XXIII? (Not to mention there's a rumor that Pope Gregory XVII elected a college of cardinals who elected a new pope in 1991 who's supposedly still alive.)
@mZaoa
4 жыл бұрын
@@vincentreyes6154 if that "pope" was also elected in the V2 sect, he would have to also be invalid. He would have reached the right conclusion though. What happens from here on in we will have to leave up to God, 'for nothing is impossible for God'. Pax
@vincentreyes6154
4 жыл бұрын
@@mZaoa Likewise, brother. +AMDG+
@andrewmackay1423
4 жыл бұрын
Maybe I might be ignorant here but ; shouldn't the Benedict election be valid? Would he not be successor of Siri, and not the previous anti-pope? Maybe the Papal Office converted this former modernist? I did watch a Taylor Marshal show with Dr Ed Mazza where Benedict might have separated the Papal Office from the Bishop of Rome... it would make you think. I need to try to get my head round things. I will see what keeps to Catholic Tradition in all this.
@jamesvigil707
4 жыл бұрын
I don’t have the answer but I don’t think it’s as simple as Fr. Gruner is trying to frame it.
@terrylm235
3 жыл бұрын
@@thesiriproject3840 Agreed.
@darrelldw713
4 жыл бұрын
Siri didn't say he was bound by the secret of the conclave, he just said, "I am bound by the secret." This could mean the seal of confession or direction from his spiritual director or a personal oath or promise he made. See whitesmoke1958.com.
@vincentreyes6154
4 жыл бұрын
Full text, "I am bound by the secret. This secret is horrible. I would have books to write about the different conclaves, very serious things have taken place, but I can say nothing." If they had only read the full response to Cardinal Siri's question during that interview in 1985, they would see that he WAS indeed elected Pope Gregory XVII, but was forced to "deny" his pontificate under grave duress. Again, "...the secret is HORRIBLE... Very serious things have taken place, but I can say nothing." Pray that a future humble and honest papal claimant will not only restore Holy Tradition in the Church, but will recognize and elevate Cardinal Siri to his rightful place as the true 261st claimant of the Papal Throne of St. Peter. +Amen!+
@terrylm235
Жыл бұрын
@@vincentreyes6154 I agree! The secret Siri probably referred to was the secret of being threatened by death from the time of the Conclave onwards.
@RedWolf5
11 ай бұрын
@@vincentreyes6154 thank you I didn’t know this. Cardinal Siri was my grandpa’s uncle.
@lisaturtle13
10 ай бұрын
Oh my goodness, that is an incredible website! I can’t wait to go through it all. Thank you for sharing this message.
@darrelldw713
10 ай бұрын
@@terrylm235 Evidence points to the "secret" being either 1. the secret of the confessional, if one or more of the Masonic cardinals involved in voting for Siri & knowing what would happen, later "confessed" his guilt in a sacrilegious confession to him; or 2. that if he revealed what happened there would be a nuclear attack on the Vatican, as the article "Grave Reasons of State" details.
@carlmoore3215
5 жыл бұрын
5:43 -- He took part in 2 more conclaves? If this is referring to after the 1963 conclave, then that is correct (the 2 conclaves of 1978). He was in a total of 4 conclaves.
@proteadis
10 ай бұрын
That was the lamest answer I ever heard. If he was threatened, he would not have admitted it. AND… why would he have bowed his head and “aged 20 years”?
@kebec1
8 жыл бұрын
If he didn't accept, where does the name Greg 17 come from?
@davegaetano7171
6 жыл бұрын
Exactly. My thought also.
@larrycera9276
6 жыл бұрын
He was elected, chose the name of Gregory, and subsequently chose to not accept before being proclaimed habemus papem
@davegaetano7171
6 жыл бұрын
The logical order of things here would be for him to accept first, and then choose a name. [Why would he first choose a name and then in effect say he was just kidding about it?] A possible scenario is that after being elected, he accepted. Immediately upon acceptance, he would become pope. That would explain why the smoke was white for 5 minutes. (But in fact neither the white smoke nor any formal 'habemus papem' proclamation is needed for him to become pope, just his initial acceptance.) Then he chose his papal name, Gregory XVII. But soon (for whatever reason) he changed his mind. A devil's advocate might argue, did Siri's change of mind constitute a valid formal resignation? If Siri had become pope, he would have had to formally resign. A mere change of mind would not have been sufficient to effect a valid formal resignation. Siri might well not have realized this. If the devil's advocate were correct, that Siri thought he could just change his mind and so didn't formally resign, then Siri never actually resigned, and so remained pope (without his own knowledge). Or the argument could be advanced that Siri did actually resign, but did so under duress, and so his resignation was not valid. (But it is not clear if duress would nullify a papal resignation.) Only God knows the reality of all this.
@larrycera9276
6 жыл бұрын
Agreed, sir. I meant the same. I have begun to really feel true sorrow over our having to even question our predicament along such historical lines. So many questions have been compounded with reference to our moral duties to conscience following the rampant heresies in our age of apostasy. Ultimately, we must come to some kind of way to unite all true lovers of the Faith of our father and Lord, and work to, once again, smooth the ground for a firm foundation for a return of the Eternal Church for the ultimate goal of serving God and saving souls. I think we can all agree that our first and only goal with regard to the Mystical Body of Christ is to erase the affects and actions of the SVC from our daily lives. Let it forever remain in our memory as a chastising reminder of what sinful men may achieve with willful imbecility, and let it stand as a true reminder of just how precious the gift of an orthodox Roman Catholic Church is to mankind. Anyone of this generation willing to work for God and His Church toward this goal will find a friend and partner in me. It's time we really begin to join forces and fight for the souls of ourselves, our families, and for any who will open their hearts to the TRUTH
@andrewmackay1423
5 жыл бұрын
This is a very valid point, I think. I believe refusing the office, under duress, does not constitute a valid refusal; and also, if he was in Place with the Gregory the Seventeenth name an' all... It looks like he was Pope; and a Great Act of The Holy Ghost made him Pope. It looks like very human politics revisited the decision of the Holy Ghost. Malachi Martin also has things to say about this subject. It is possible and maybe more probable that Siri did not know he remained Pope: Wow, the defence of the current list of heretics' claim to remaining Pope seems far more far fetched than a simple misunderstanding of events by Siri! They do not take this seriously, but I think we all should! If he was Pope, he was Pope, and it is a simple as that. In the great western schism, ninety odd percent of the Catholic world recognized a false Pope; but the True Pope remained the Pope throughout!
@binyamin3716
3 жыл бұрын
the truth will come out by force from the very own who hided all this….GOD KNOWS EVERYONES HEART…
@WhatIsTheTruthToday
5 жыл бұрын
But if a man's family is threatened with death by those voting in the conclave, then the interference means that the following pope is invalid, because there can be no pressure applied in the decision of a Cardinal, in accepting or not accepting the position of pope. What is said is that there were threats made against him and his whole family, and that is the proper question. His vow of secrecy of course could be used, because he did not accept the position of Pope, but did he not accept because of duress? Viva Cristo Rey
@jackkenefick2696
5 жыл бұрын
but if he accepted and renounced it the he was still a pope. so not bound by secrecy on conclave and how can he go back to being a cardinal after accepting the papacy?
@vincentreyes6154
4 жыл бұрын
@@jackkenefick2696 The reason he lived out his lawful papacy as a recognized cardinal was because he felt that was the best choice for his family's survival. It is true that he was not bound by the secrets of the conclave, but he knew that if he were to disclose any secret of the conclave he and/or his family would pay the price for it. John Paul I was an example of what happens when someone tries to expose or expel a group or individual to the whole world as an infiltrator or a usurper. kzitem.info/news/bejne/xKyLvZqXkXlqn6A
@88kmitchell
9 жыл бұрын
The Good, the Bad bankers, and the Ugly Pharisees.
@suzanneguiho4882
6 жыл бұрын
Where does this come from that Sirîs successor is in exile....so secret??
@janetyoung6097
5 жыл бұрын
And who is Siri's successor in exile and does he really exist. And if so where is he.
@MareRS357
4 жыл бұрын
Cardinal Siri was given a death threat for him and also his family should he become Pope.
@JohnJhones
6 жыл бұрын
4:40 If he was not the pope he would respond with a simple no. Fr Gruner's logic makes no sense. Why would he make such a reaction for several minutes and age 20 years????? It seems far more likely that he was elected but was threatened to keep silent...
@MR-qh7fq
6 жыл бұрын
I agree, it appears he was validly elected pope, but I believe he refused due to pressure from the enemies of the Church and possible threats, thus he never accepted and never officially became "pope". We know now of the Sankt Gallen mafia within the church, and in the infiltration by communists confirmed by Bella Dodd, the aim of the freemasons evidenced by St Kolbe and now the sexual predator/homosexual network all through out!
@johnnyhuynh3449
4 жыл бұрын
Or maybe the story is not accurate. It's inaccuracy proves that maybe the theory is faulty
@terrylm235
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I think so.
@nathanfischer4519
7 жыл бұрын
When Father Gruner speaks, he does not open his mouth. It is very difficult to understand. sorry!
@doubleghod
6 жыл бұрын
hahahaahah, yea, that's true. And the plethora of hirsute only adds to the audio impediment!!
@JBQ86
6 жыл бұрын
Malachi Martin was there as a Jesuit advisor. His writings verify that Siri was elected pope. He refused to accept the office. Now, if he was intimidated, then his abdication is invalid.
@JBQ86
6 жыл бұрын
There were also evident threats to kill bishops behind the Iron Curtain.
@clairestevens8051
5 жыл бұрын
D Paul I don’t see that his abdication was invalid just because he gave in to intimidation and stepped out. If indeed that’s what happened.
@chrisbernal5164
4 жыл бұрын
@@clairestevens8051 Threat vitiates voluntariness. A vitiated act is involuntary. If voluntary acts are created acts, involuntary acts are not. Such uncreated acts do not exists, having no essence at all. The election of Card Siri is complete as to its matter and form. He accepted his election by taking the name Gregory XV11
@heavenisnttoofaraway4663
Жыл бұрын
Does anyone think cardinal similar would fulfil the prophecy of the popes?
@anthonyrolandsilva9371
5 жыл бұрын
If Cardinal Siri said NO, then it is NO!"
@mizzyroro
9 жыл бұрын
Do these guys think we are dumb? If Siri was eletced and accepted taking the name Gregory XVII then he would have resigned, freeing him from the possibility of breaking the laws of the conclave.
@vincentreyes6154
4 жыл бұрын
That is true, and I among others believe that this was indeed the case. However, Cardinal Siri (Gregory XVII) chose to seek refuge in the "secret of the conclave." I put that in quotations because the secret he was hiding behind was not the same oath of secrecy for cardinals in a papal conclave. No, the secret of the conclave he was hiding behind was the secret behind John XXIII's "election" to the papacy and the threat of death if he [Cardinal Siri] were to reveal that secret.
@garysuarez9614
3 жыл бұрын
Quit under threat or duress does not count, allegedly.
@davegaetano7171
6 жыл бұрын
They keep telling us how bad some popes have been, and implied that Siri either resigned or declined the papacy out of fear for his family ( a cowardly thing to do), yet they never even consider that Siri may have lied or dissembled when he claimed he was not allowed to speak about the conclave that (may have) twice elected him?
@markm4033
5 жыл бұрын
Don't say he acted cowardly for we don't know the details plus the fact that he had a large family. The enemy that infiltrated no doubt made a threat. Maybe you too would have caved in with such threats huh? A good question would be why did Pope John Paul 2 cave in when he had no family left on earth? During the consecration of the world, he turned to his "advisors" and asked if he could add Russia. They told him no. How and when does a Pope ever need permission? What kind of hold did they have over Pope JP2?
@zzzxxc1
3 жыл бұрын
@@markm4033 The J-M could've threatened nuclear war and annihilation of Rome.
@AlonsoRules
7 ай бұрын
he was probably elected but declined the papacy
@brian47k
10 жыл бұрын
Thanks for clearing up this question on Card. Siri being Pope , I was one of those who had thought maybe he was. Too bad he wasnt Pope !
@achilleshoplites6298
9 жыл бұрын
Hes bound by secrecy after an election? HUH? The most humble among the Cardinals and the most Christ like should be elected the most in line with faith....
@carlmoore3215
5 жыл бұрын
1:24 -- 70 cardinals? That is the limit followed by Pope Pius XII and his predecessors, but there were only 55 living cardinals when Pius XII died. 2 died between then and the start of the conclave, and 2 others were impeded from attending, so only 51cardinals attended the conclave.
@felixmasis3658
5 ай бұрын
Where can I find that info?
@carlmoore3215
5 ай бұрын
@@felixmasis3658 The site found by searching for "fiu cardinals" without the quote marks.
@Etihwkcirtap
6 жыл бұрын
Gonna take an act of God to straighten this out. Just read the various contradicting opionions on here, in which I assume they are all faithful. Our human 3.5lb brain is vary flawed: remember how often you didn't score perfect on school
@suzanneguiho4882
6 жыл бұрын
The election of the Pope, it is my understanding, that it is a disciplinary matter. The disciplinary matter is expressed in canon law. So there are rules in cannon law that cover the unrolling of the elections and Cardinal Siri got the required no of votes but he had to accept to become Pope. He chose a name Gregory the XVII and white smoke came out of the chimney, abemus papam. When asked in later years if he was Pope, he took a few minutes to answer in which time he had held his head in his hands, aged twenty years and then said that he was oath bound and couldn’t answer. There was an investigation and it was shown that there had been tampering with the election and threatening a chosen candidate is tampering. I’m a lawyer and in a civil court that election would have been called nul and void. So you are telling me that in canon law, this can come to pass and there is no recourse and the election is valid. If that is the case, that is scary???!!...when I think of the next election for Pope after Francis, we are in for a shock. That means that the conclave can elect Satan as Pope, if they use the right threaths....if they haven already done so???? God bless and help us.
@charleswillett2825
6 жыл бұрын
suzanne guiho Very well and frighteningly explained. It is a case of one for all and all for one. If what you do say took place, then it begs the question, "Who is the true pope?" Is there any truth after the 1958 conclave if it has sparked such controversy.
@domdenazareth5542
5 жыл бұрын
So if you're a lawyer, you must know that the election of Francis is put into question as there was the "Saint" Gallen Mafia that tamper with the election ?
@tonyale749
2 жыл бұрын
@@domdenazareth5542 Pope Francis was tampered too? I guessed about that. Well, they forced Pope Benedict down….the 3rd secret of Fatima was right…. Satan already entered the church.
@johnbones261
4 жыл бұрын
If he was elected pope and refused it for what ever reason he is still bound by the conclave. In your own words he must say "I accept" to become pope.
@CVenza
9 жыл бұрын
With all due respect, to deny that Cardinal Siri was not elected Pope is to not believe in the Traditional truths and ways of the Roman Catholic Church in regards to the election. That being said, it would offer excuse for those that attend or facilitate the Novus Ordo mass and are looking for validation. Their is no "degradation" in being coerced, the degradation is in admitting that "priests are only men" as an excuse to continue with their false belief and not accept their priestly vows with honor. The priest said it himself when he said "I am not a very good actor" as if that meant anything. RIP.
@johnraymond7877
8 жыл бұрын
Not convincing.
@planetryguide7064
5 жыл бұрын
He might have been elected pope but he was not brave enough to be one. That should settle the matter.
@opencurtin
3 жыл бұрын
More conspiracy theories , surely it’s not true ...
@hesselfridyanto
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know what your side now, but I think it's better to put my opinion here. Well, for me, these wild conspiracy theories are crazy I mean, I know that the "revolution" that has been brought by Vatican II is not in a right direction. And I quite often agree with what SSPX and Abp Lefebvre's opinion on Vatican II. What make me feel so tickled (or worse, disgusted) is when I saw many sedevacantists spreading these conspiracies, and telling "this invalid, that invalid, these invalid, those invalid". I'm not a person who is easy to say "you are so judgmental", but this time, indeed the sedevacantists are far too much being judgemental, because from what I know, quite many sedevacantists are just laymen who are "conspiricing" about everything (literally everything) in front of their eyes.
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