This is kinda why as much as the anime adaptation of Vanitas is good, it has a major problem with pacing. Because of how fast they went with Chloe and Jacques, it has lead to anime-only viewers to have a whiplash of different motivations Chloe had. Moreover, the anime barely covers/undermines the Lore, that a few hundred years ago Vampires came to existance because a guy discovered the world formula existed and tampered with it, after their sudden emergence to the world, they became discriminated by humans that ultimately lead to war between the two factions. It was only recently that humans and vampires settled on an agreement that they can both have peace by separating most of their societies- which is kinda important to understand Chloe and Ruthven's motivation, as well as the mystery that surrounds Jeanne. The reason why there's a dynamic of mature and childishness in Chloe is due to her upbringing. In her childhood she was isolated from the world, so she's unable to develop that much as a person, but it doesn't mean that she didn't developed to some extent. She witnessed the slow falling apart of her family due to her existence, with those of the older generations trying to save her, while the younger generations getting enticed by what kind of power they can have by experimenting with the world formula. She didn't know much about the vampire world either, and at the time she turned into one. She was one of the very first vampires to have existed. Growing up, she would have gotten news about the War between Humans and Vampires, all she would have known prior to knowing Ruthven was that Vampires are creatures that have caused chaos and destruction for no good reason. And after the last of her family died, she blamed herself for everything, that she has lead her family to ruin and destruction- this is why she feels like it's her duty to keep fighting for what her family stood for. The reason why Chloe cares for Jacques is because she sees herself in him, ridiculed by the world for the sole reason of their existance. For the first time in a long while, she got a companion that wants to be there for her. Yet unlike herself, she believes that he could still attain the freedom she never could. She also feels like a burden to him, and with him becoming the beast this all but confirms it, adding more to her self-imposed responsibility. Yet there's a part of her that wants to live the way she wants to, to be free of responsibilities and just explore the world around her. This is what Ruthven brings at first and what Jeanne ultimately gave to Chloe, that there's more to life than what her castle ever had. Her main internal conflict in the narrative of the arc is her self-imposed responsibility vs her true desire for freedom. Which is ultimately resolved with Chloe being freed from her sense of responsibility by Jeanne and Vanitas.
@zackthezabarak739
Жыл бұрын
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by “ mystery of Jeanne”? Her scenes were adapted almost panel by panel. Genuine curiosity, not trying to be a troll. I love the anime and the manga SOOO much. Jeanne is my favorite, Roland is a close second.
@TheOwlet22
Жыл бұрын
@@zackthezabarak739 it's alright oof, tho tbh I forgot since it's been a while since I read the manga XD if I remember tho I think I wrote that with the context that the anime kinda glossed over the scenes involving her flashbacks. Which sets up the mystery of the murder of her parents and the change within Ruthven's belief for co-existance, furthermore, Jeanne herself is an enigma because why did they murder the parents but not the child? Sure the anime adapted them but I felt like they went too quickly throughout it all to truly sink in to the viewers.
@XHammer-fs5pf
11 ай бұрын
@xifeng1883 As far as information shared about Jeanne herself, the only thing cut in this arc was her jumping around being energetic while Chloé could barely catch up. There were less scenes shown of her gazing at her parents heads traumatized but in actual information the only important pet of her flashbacks that wasn’t shown was that Machina made her crimson gauntlet and gave it to her and Ruthven personally asked the senate to take Jeanne under his wing. In episode 20 they cut out the senate stuff from chapter 43 that explains how Jeanne becomes solely Luca’s agent and Ruthven isn’t allowed to officially tell her what to do. There is a lot of stuff left to be learned about Jeanne, what was going on that had her in a test tube ( so many theories), how she broke out and ended up homeless when her parents found her, and why her parents betrayed Ruthven and the other vampires, and of course why Ruthven cursed her and if Neania stole her true name before Ruthven showed up in that cell, but those are all things the manga hasn’t revealed either. And don’t get me wrong, the anime skipped a lot of stuff, some of it minor but in the case of Chloé they skipped the most. But except for showing less flashbacks of her, flashbacks that showed the same scene over and over. But the flashbacks from chapter 39 of the manga were all accounted for save the Machina scene and Ruthven talking to the senate. I concede these help with lore, but in a hypothetical second season these could be shown or at least mentioned in dialogue. But I am very eager to have those mysteries solved! And if you didn’t know, the manga finally came back from hiatus and chapter 61 just dropped this week! Sorry bout the big reply btw, I’m just excited to talk Case Study of Vanitas with people.
@randompolygon8401
2 жыл бұрын
I think the problems you have with her character are mostly due to the show going a bit too fast. I haven't read the manga, but to me her child like act and weird social interactions only made sense to be from her being mostly isolated. and you have to keep in mind that she has lived for more than two centuries, of course her motivations are going to change and become more complex as time goes on. when you are alone and keep secrets from the only person near you, it isn't far fetched at all to do crazy things that only make sense in your head. she didn't discuss her plan with anyone. some inconsistencies in her motives are natural. And you may say that's just giving the show too much credit, but she is THE ONLY character with inconsistent motives like that. Unless it happens again, I'm at least willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt. I think her unpredictable character progression was way too complex for 6 episodes. she had two centuries and multiple major events that all combined into a complex and all over the place motivation. I except those motives because I take the two centuries thing into consideration, but If you don't actively do that the character just feels wrong. which is why I think for it to work flawlessly the show needed slower pacing. Although I have to say, you do have a point for the character design. character design at least in my mind isn't really the most important element, but I do agree with you on that. And i don't think what you say about the message works simply because He also wasn't the greatest person. I mean yes she saved the people who he was killing with the time loop thing, but he didn't kill them while knowing that, at least not the first time. maybe destroying the world is a much bigger problem, but when you live in isolation with someone you love for years and have done not so great things yourself, it wouldn't really make sense to not forgive that person. specially when being in an emotional state and her recently almost dying . and about the stakes, yes it was vastly higher than what happened after it, but the latter part had a different kind of hook. and that is information. while the family drama part isn't nearly as high stakes as the world ending, vanitas's backstory which was the actual hook of that part is just as if not more important that world ending in terms of engagement, so at least until now, the show hasn't ruined it's stakes.
@zackthezabarak739
Жыл бұрын
Yes sadly it seems adapting a 20 chapter arc into 7 episodes wasn’t advisable. I was actually surprised it is as coherent as it is. Still, I greatly enjoyed the arc and the anime as a whole.( it’s probably my fifth favorite anime of all time: the music, characters, action and romance are phenomenal.) But I heavily recommend the manga, it’s a more fleshed out version of the anime events. I can’t recommend both versions of the series enough, I love them so much.
@AbdulMannan-jx1yc
2 жыл бұрын
As much as i enjoyed the beast of gevaden arc in the anime even with all the cuts(I was actually surprised that they didnt ruin the arc and were able to keep the atmosphere great while delivering some moments) it doesn't come close to its manga counter part... A lot of anime onlines got confused and well i dont blame them... Chloe s backstory is atleast 3 episodes worth of content and there is soooo much more depth to both jean jacques and Chloe... The story of how it all started too was pretty intense and dark(much darker then the anime since the anime just condensed that into a short summary)... I dont know if it was due to censorship or something because those parts are hella dark... ANd chloe s Family plays a huuuge role.. The anime only mentioned that through her pov with jean jacques in some dialouges so its hard to notice... Not to mention the beast reveal in the manga was...just something else... Though they didnt censor the last arc that much so i think there might have been other issues... In anycase I am surprised that i actuually enjoyed it in the anime but maybe thats because i already knew all the depth and missing pieces and since they did deliver the final moments of the arc in a great manner(episode 6 and 7 were good)... The beast of gevaden arc is the best arc of Vanitas I do urge everyone to read it... since it atleast required a whole season for a proper adaptation...
@ProfessorViral
2 жыл бұрын
This is one I would consider reading for sure. I can definitely see this section being done a lot better with more time, to make those dramatic scenes were which good feel more deserved
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
Highly recommend, especially now that the manga has returned from hiatus.
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
In an interview Mochizuki admitted she didn’t kill Chloé because she planned for Jeanne to give Vanitas that smile that made him fall in love. And she felt that Jeanne would never smile like that unless Chloé survived, and mid arc maneuvered stuff to save the character. ( which is why she suddenly disappeared.) Mochizuki lives by having the characters dictate the story so this time it sadly damaged the pacing. In the manga the have the two come back and it’s revealed Chloé’s recovering from her malnomen and they have been hiding because Vanitas had them sent away from Paris
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
The reason Chloé’s part of the core was so long is that her arc is literally 1/3 of the current manga that’s been released ( literally only 2 new chapters out right now because of a one year hiatus). The season didn’t address all the portions you hoped for ( Ruthven/Neania, etc) weren’t shown because the manga itself hasn’t gotten to those points and Mochizuki only wanted the anime to cover what she had already written.
@pregmobrainrot2857
Жыл бұрын
i think your problems stem from the anime adaption having weird pacing. coming from someone who read the manga, chloes backstory is really complex, long and hints at multiple other mysteries in the story. the whole second season feels weird to anime onlys because they rushed the story
@pregmobrainrot2857
Жыл бұрын
this is also definitely a series to be analyzed. there is a lot going on with these characters, theyre extremely complex, and at its core its actually a mystery and a literal character study of vanitas himself
@pregmobrainrot2857
Жыл бұрын
everyone read the manga its so amazing please
@yunqb1519
Жыл бұрын
I love chloe and I think the anime did an okay job with her arc, of course it doesn't compare to the manga. the main issue here is that they tried to fit two entire and very important arcs into the second cour to catch up with the manga... and that backfired chloé is one of the first vampires to exist. the babel incident which created vampirism and the entire world formula fiasco some humans just got their formula rewritten and woke up as vampires, a reason why she looks like a child. and you have to remember back then literally no one knew what actually happened before vampirism became common, thats how her whole family research started this also makes her into a very powerful vampire btw (thats why ruthven's curse had no effect on her she is much much older than him) also I think she is a bit hard to understand, I dont remember if the anime had the scene but in the manga when her and jeanne were running in the flowers and she saw the outside world in such a beautiful light for the first time her immediate thought was "I thought that if I was going to die, I want it to be now" because in that moment she was happy and she wanted that to be her last memory. all the things you mentioned are also part of her motivations but the main one is that she's simply seeking happiness, that's also why she cries after being saved. her goal was to be happy and die with that feeling but after getting a taste of it she wondered and realized if she can keep experiencing that feeling also I think you take the "jealous" part chloé said a bit too literally all the "consequences" you mentioned btw are hinted in the manga since there jj and chloé appear again and mention these problems also there is never a "maybe I'm looking in too deep" with vanitas no carte, this is by the woman who created pandora hearts, a manga with so many layers, symbolism, foreshadowing and details you still notice things after the 5th read.. we are talking about details like a simple picture on the back of the first volume foreshadowing a reveal you get after 200 chapters (yes this happened) either way I enjoyed this video! nice for discussions and you made good points, most of them really just being something you can't avoid if you only know the anime which is a nice insight because if you know the manga beforehand, like me, you usually don't notice these things
@Jude_began_pestering_you
2 ай бұрын
Am I the only one that didn't know that Chloe and Jacques were romantic? Might be because I'm aromantic and Chloe looks 12
@krishangkrishna1544
2 жыл бұрын
Im sorry but i cant understand you. Maybe its because i read the manga but i never saw anything wrong with her. She is a lonely gal subservient to immediate pleasure while doubting its validity. This smorgasbord of emotion is what i related to. atleast thats how i saw her. This smorgasbord of emotion was what i related to. Judge me if you will but i dont think she is as bad as you make her out to be. If she is getting a happy ending so be it.
@monikriv7415
2 жыл бұрын
Ok I watched half of this and I so agree that Gaveduan arc was a mess in the anime , especially since bones butchered the arc. Actually yes, Chloe family was pretty relevant and more handled in the manga, where they weren't faceless and all the fault wasn't because of the church but something else more complicated, but that's the manga. The anime just chose to cut everywhere and tell a really fast explanation the last minute cause they wanted to adapt the current arc of the manga... sigh
@monikriv7415
2 жыл бұрын
I have watched more of this video now and, I wouldn't be so sure about that Vanitas and Jeanne's relationship would not be explored, and I mean about the ugly and unhealthy part, the mangaka will totally go back to that ... if I can take pandora hearts as a reference, yeah she will address it later.
@carmineorlando8253
2 жыл бұрын
Tbh no, it's really great even in the anime
@monikriv7415
2 жыл бұрын
@@carmineorlando8253 lets agree to desagree
@alexale5488
Жыл бұрын
The only moment I liked was when Jeanne and Vanitas slept almost naked in the same bed. Chloe ark was very very boring. Felt like a total filler, a filler that lasted up to the entire season.
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
Chloé looks 11 because she is based on that Vampire Diaries character that is forever a child. That’s it, just a shout out to one of her favorite books. Louis is named after Louis from Vampire diaries, Ruthven is named after Ruthven in the Vampyre, Orlock is named after count Orlock from Nosferatu. The manga is full of little nods to vampire media that Jun Mochizuki ( the author) enjoyed.
@Joiofficial
2 жыл бұрын
Personally I love Chloé but anyone else notice how simular that season was to the couple chapters of black butler with the witch village vol 19-21
@rettthebest
10 ай бұрын
As other people have already pointed out the problem with Chloe's motivation is because the anime messed up the arc, and her personality is stemmed from how she was raised in isolation. but there are several other things you've said that need addressing. Chloe's outfit is not disheveled in a mad scientist way because she is a d'Apchier. Vanitas hit the nail on the head when he told the chasseurs to not let any of the citizens die because Chloe is a d'Apchier and will lose herself even more if something does happen to them. She rewinds time whenever Jean-Jawue turns into the beast so he will not kill anyone else. She spent hundreds of years being a noblewoman. Being a d'Apchier. Protecting her people. Noble women do NOT let themselves be seen disheveled. Noble women do NOT throw on whatever is around. Noble women must be seen as proper at all times. Which means when she is not actively working on something. She has been desperately clinging to her sanity before she ever met Jean-Jeaque. So, you know, Hundreds of years. Her identity is that of a Noble first. She would NOT let herself go. As for her "Being the Tragic Villian" she is not the villain in the arc. She is the victim. She was mentally tortured by Nania for hundreds of years. Her family was discredited and disgraced by the church to the point her family was either killed by the people they were trying to protect or committed suicide. The first friend she ever had turned on her. The villains in this arc are Nania and the catholic church. The church was also kinda glazed over in the anime. But they sent the Chaussar's problem child to deal with the situation with the intent of making the situation worse, so they could have justification to go and kill everyone, even the civilians, because they didn't want anyone to find out they were the ones who cause the situation in the first place. Olivia and Roland protecting the civilians rather than killing them was going against orders from the church. another thing they glazed over was the Dhampire involvement. They were there to steal the important parts of the alteration engine for Count Machina, which is a character they've also glazed over. They didn't show him in any of the flashbacks and they even forgot to draw him in scenes he was supposed to be in during the first season. But basically, he was a vampire scientist who made exoskeletons, he is also a good friend of Ruthvan. He visited Chloe numerous times on Ruthvan's command (he was wearing a bear-shaped exoskeleton, it was weird) and he was the one hosting the ball in season one. Dominic even talked to him at one point, calling him by name. Anime-only watchers tend to think she was talking to a cat. Nope. She was talking to a guy beside the cat who was dressed as a robot. They just forgot to draw him in. So now Ruthvan, a villain, has Chloe's world-ending device. Pretty important stuff for the anime to glaze over.
@yuzufrio
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, Viral!! Glad to see that you kept up with VnC! Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. As you may remember, I think I said in my comment on your review/analysis for the first cour that I basically ate up this entire anime and that it was through the lens of my shipping goggles haha. I appreciate your reviews on this anime so far because (1) it can help increase viewership of this visually stunning, enjoyable anime, and (2) 95% of VnC fan content are either about the couples or blindly labeling this series as fujoshi bait, so this critical analysis is a breath of fresh air and offers a new perspective from which to appreciate and even demand more from this series. VnC feels very self-aware (and even visceral) with its twisted portrayal of romance, but it seems like that changed in the second cour. 🤔 I'm an anime-only enjoyer so far and found myself spellbound by Chloe's arc. I do acknowledge that... its overall execution (now that I've watched your review) does feel considerably less polished than the rest of the anime. 🤔 It was still enjoyable to me (my jaw dropped when Naenia's true form was revealed). I like that Chloe was a part of Jeanne's past, so we got to see how Jeanne was like. I appreciate the aesthetics of Chloe's character design too, but I do concede that she could definitely have been written better. The suggestions you've shared on how this arc could be improved are thought-provoking. Referencing analogous examples from other anime helped me appreciate those anime better as well as see what could have been done instead, so I applaud your passion and thought here. I relate with Vanitas quite a bit, and I also find pieces of myself in Noe, Domi, and Jeanne as well. I guess it feels like PLOT just superceded the plausible character and thematic development in the second cour. 🥺 I'm inclined to agree that pacing really hurt this anime when so much was happening so quickly that things needed to breathe (or just be simpler...) so the audience could truly feel with and for the characters.
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
Chloé was better handled in the manga with better pacing and more fleshed backstory, though personally I myself don’t like her much. If you give the manga a look I think at least some of the problems you had will be addressed. The anime is very good, it’s actually one of my all time favorites, but the second half admittedly rushed to many points. ( admittedly it didn’t bother me because Chloé’s arc was the only one that was so negatively handled). However your problem with the Chloé JJ relationship… yeah it’s as bad in the manga.
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
In the manga Charlatan steal Chloé’s world formula engine while everyone is celebrating.
@ProfessorViral
2 жыл бұрын
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@ilikemetoo3088
Жыл бұрын
21:32 I though for a yandera like him it was normal obsessed ,use someone as they personal world , easily jealous, Do whatever you(wrong shit)think is good for that person , he had it all I don't think someone like this will have a normal relationship.
@marthderp5586
9 ай бұрын
So the thing about it is that there is a reason for why he does what he does. Chloe is his entire world because of the time loop malnomen isolating them both and the fact that everyone is as a matter of fact trying to kill her. People do bad things for good reasons all the time as well. I truly believe that now that they have gotten out of the time loop isolation thing he can and will easily make new friends and have healthy relationships with other people. He made friends with Noé pretty quickly afterwards once he realized they weren’t trying to hurt them.
@jo-ri-oh8950
2 жыл бұрын
I think the "reason" why she's stuck in a 11 yo body it's because she didn't born as a vampire but she comes one. That's the only excuse I can find x)
@TheOwlet22
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, she was one of the very first humans to become a vampire.
@monikriv7415
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, since she lived in that period of time, her freezed body can be a clue to understand what happened on babel incident (also her malomen is put in a loop things so maybe she freezed herself unconsciously cause maybe she has the power) or the mangaka just wanted to draw her that way Spoilers.... But since Chloe is back in the manga, the vampire senate is trying to find her and has been stated, she know a little how to alter the world formula throught a certain device and sound, te reasons of her body being freezed can be explained
@zackthezabarak739
Жыл бұрын
ZacktheZabarak 48 seconds ago Vampires in the series stop aging at random intervals. Chloè “awoke” as a vampire when she was four, but her body stopped aging at 11. Jeanne stopped aging in her early 20s, Ruthven and Teacher stoped in their 40s, and Orlock stopped after middle age. It’s entirely luck of the draw and not about when they awaken. At this point in the story they haven’t revealed why but it’s probably just going to be a thing that happens. When the bark incident accord vampires happened randomly, people just woke up one day different. It usually happens through vampires mating and birthing others since it appears to be genetic after the change but in rare cases a random awakening occurs.
@jeminapearl4565
Жыл бұрын
Chloe was never a "villain". Yes, people thought she was the Beast of Gevaudan, but she wasn't. Yes, she did consort with Naenia and give away her true name, but only for the purpose of killing Naenia herself for manipulating and corrupting Jean-Jacque. Naenia *thinks* she's persuaded Chloe to use the alteration engine to take revenge on the people of Gevaudan for forsaking her, but Chloe always intended to use it against Naenia and no one else. With that in mind, I don't think the romance between Chloe and Jean-Jacque was toxic, and it certainly wasn't irredeemable.
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
Chloé is admittedly more of a plot device, it’s to show Ruthven and Jeanne’s backstory.
@sicariusaf
2 жыл бұрын
Thankyou for explaining the story to me... I'm honestly not sure whether I got confused because i got distracted or because I was really fucked up on ketamine for a few episodes. At least it's not just me that felt everything was inconsistent though lol
@alphaismywife6518
Жыл бұрын
L opinion
@ProfessorViral
Жыл бұрын
I don't know what a famous fictional detective who likes sweets has to do with this
@Naoe-Nagi
Жыл бұрын
Chloe was the reason for me to start with the anime in the first place and I found the anime and especially her as a character great. I absolutely cannot agree.
@ItsShaz1
2 жыл бұрын
Ayyy
@marthderp5586
9 ай бұрын
So the thing about it is that there is a reason for why Jean-Jacques does what he does. Chloe is his entire world because of the time loop malnomen isolating them both and the fact that everyone is as a matter of fact trying to kill her. People do bad things for good reasons all the time as well. I truly believe that now that they have gotten out of the time loop isolation thing he can and will easily make new friends and have healthy relationships with other people. He made friends with Noé pretty quickly afterwards once he realized they weren’t trying to hurt them.
@XHammer-fs5pf
Жыл бұрын
8:08. Her family was killed in the vampire hunt ( hunt for the beast) and she felt guilty about that because in the manga she asked her family members to look into it and it got them killed.
@natsuno420
Жыл бұрын
Thumbs up because I like to hear someone discuss this slept on show but I don’t agree with many of the points
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