@@zainmalik1872Can't wait for 2025 i'm pretty sure it's gonna be one of the best seasons in the history
@z1bryan
10 күн бұрын
This is the best of F1, doing something thats hard to tell if it's illegal. just like DAS and blown diffusers
@DAGATHire
10 күн бұрын
agreed! love this stuff, clever engineers doing clever things. Its a real pity this channel have to talk utter bollocks for half the video rather than getting to the damn point.
@z1bryan
10 күн бұрын
@@DAGATHire gotta make the video long enough for more ads 😂
@steveluth3139
10 күн бұрын
Well they set a different precedent with the flexy wing which was legal in 2021 for RB because it passed the tests but still had to change it, only reason they will not do anything now is because they need a championship to be more competitive
@MuhammadNiz007
10 күн бұрын
I am not sure what you are on buddy because the DAS was made in collaboration of FIA, the original design was actually ruled banned and the one they raced was never in doubt of legality it was just a matter of costs that it got banned
@sepg5084
10 күн бұрын
Flexy wings are illegal, check the regulations
@brooksfriess3139
10 күн бұрын
Honestly at this point I think the fia should just focus on verifying flexible aero is safe. If it meets the loading standard it wont break on track then even if flex happens it should be fine. There is no practical way for them police this and I'm tired of hearing about it every few years.
@lightfeather9953
10 күн бұрын
It's a broad cultural problem: people like to make rules that say how you're allowed to implement something, instead of making a rule on the outcome itself.
@brooksfriess3139
10 күн бұрын
That is a really good point
@Neishy4AGTE
10 күн бұрын
Just allow Flex, it's not in the teams interest to make a wing that might break. Only thing I could see wrong with allowing flex is maybe less wealthy teams will struggle to make use of the flex properly.
@stephensegal5187
10 күн бұрын
Round and round We go.... flexi wings. Asymmetrical braking, "Active suspension" augmentation.... same old trucks, different time periods...... This year HAS to be close, so The FIA acts accordingly. If Red Bull had dominated all season AGAIN, half of Us would no longer be watching anymore.
@brooksfriess3139
10 күн бұрын
History suggests teams will push limits until then breaking point to win so some level of foa testing is necessary. I think the rich teams argument isn't as strong under the cost cap now.
@kurtwells711
10 күн бұрын
Negative air pressure HATES this one trick!
@Loudeboss
10 күн бұрын
Aha you're silly
@RobertAlbert-ne1ei
6 күн бұрын
The smartest thing that should be on everyone's mind right now should be to invest in different streams of income that are not dependent on the government. Especially with the current economic crisis around the world. This is still a good time to invest in gold, silver, and digital currencies (BTC ETH...)
@JohnsonSteven-v8s
6 күн бұрын
How .? Am a newbie in crypto investment, please can you guide me through on how you made profit?
@RobertAlbert-ne1ei
6 күн бұрын
A lot of people still make massive profit from the crypto market, all you really need is a relevant information and some professional advice.
@John56467
6 күн бұрын
You trade also?, |
@RobertAlbert-ne1ei
6 күн бұрын
No I don't trade on my own anymore always required help and assistance
@RobertAlbert-ne1ei
6 күн бұрын
From my personal financial advisor
@TedSchoenling
10 күн бұрын
To quote Horner "Fix your ****** car"
@gdguy57
10 күн бұрын
Change not fix
@8ubbless
10 күн бұрын
Zak: Change your f**king car
@kentaoji939
10 күн бұрын
Max : "Better change my team"
@teabagtowers3823
10 күн бұрын
Guessing this is like when Mercedes had DAS and Horner was squealing like a stuck pig.
@ua697
10 күн бұрын
If you practice a little more you might one day be able to make your own jokes
@Jeffrey_Wong
10 күн бұрын
If policing flexi-wings is so difficult, why not make them explicitly allowed under the rules? It's not technically active aero if they only move under the force of the oncoming wind
@givemeabreak8784
10 күн бұрын
Or make them the same for everyone.
@riccardopezzani
10 күн бұрын
It's baffling to me they don't allow flexible parts since that would be a useful development that could come in handy for actual cars. So they allow active aero changes through DRS and next year it will be applied to front wings too, but a little flex now is a problem.
@parabelluminvicta8380
9 күн бұрын
wrong flexiwing are considered active aereo so its not allowed by the rules but some flex is allowed only with the frontal wing like 1.5cm.
@Jeffrey_Wong
9 күн бұрын
@@parabelluminvicta8380 well it's all arbitrarily defined under the FIA rulebooks. My proposal was to change the definition of "active aero" to mean aerodynamic devices which are intentionally activated by some sort of actuator, and passive aero to be anything that deforms under load. DRS is activated by the driver pushing a button so it would be considered active, flexi wings would deform under load so they'd be considered passive. The point is that currently flexi wings are hard to enforce because they exist in a gray area that isn't well-enough defined in the FIA rulebooks. But flexible bodywork isn't inherently damaging to the integrity of the sport, so why not make it easier for everyone by just allowing it?
@prozoomy
10 күн бұрын
If its legal then McLaren did a big brain move.
@lenlaskowski7374
10 күн бұрын
"IF"
@Hungary_0987
10 күн бұрын
It’s legal, says the fia
@Reaz399
10 күн бұрын
@@Hungary_0987Yeah, makes no sense given that Red Bull literally did the same thing with their front and rear wing in 2021 ( also passed every FIA test) and yet still had to change both of their wings in-season because the FIA demanded it. Makes 0 sense that the FIA is now handling this situation differently given that the Merc and especially the McLaren FW‘s flex like crazy.
@Dischingo
10 күн бұрын
@@Reaz399 it wasn't that that F1 demanded it be changed they just introduced more stringent tests that redbull wasn't able to pass. The Fia can introduce any test it feels necessary and as long as it passes the tests it's legal.
@Reaz399
10 күн бұрын
@@Dischingo That‘s not true. Red Bull passed every single test in 2021.
@jkliao6486
10 күн бұрын
In case people didn't understand the ruling and keep saying flexy wing should be banned, the regulation specifies static load test, that team needs to pass, so theoretically you can have a wing that deforms non-linearly at higher end to achieve the flexing effect while stay within the rule. However, the regulation also explicitly says that FIA reserves the right to change the static load test procedure if they think the current testing does not reflecting the effect FIA wants from the rule, and that includes in-season test change. So even if they change the test procedure, it's not red bull or ferrari having FIA in their pocket, in case any hater wants to rush and start hating.
@EversonBernardes
10 күн бұрын
The testing regimen is all wonky, tbqh. 60N of static load normal to the wing surface - the thing is, the loads the wings are subjected to while driving _aren't_ normal to the wing surfaces, and as such the deflection isn't in that vector either. Rather, the wings are subjected to torque around their axis and twist to conform to the airflow, what the current tests aren't designed to address.
@Baldorcete
10 күн бұрын
The interruption in the wing is designed to allow it to flex. Start by banning such interruptions. Next season, of course, no rule changes mid season.
@jkliao6486
10 күн бұрын
@@EversonBernardes They do also have torque load testing as well, which is an offset force.
@driesvanoosten4417
9 күн бұрын
The point is that the main article of the regulation says that aerodynamic parts must he rigidly secured and immobile. The load tests are a way to make those statements quantitative. However, a part that passes the loadtests yet is designed to flex still fails the main article. In the case of outwash, the fia made it clear it had the right to change the tests if parts violated the spirit of the regulation quickly. Why have they never mentioned this "spirit of the regulations" rule here, when teams are basically admitting they are violating the spirit of the regulation?
@veuxrei
9 күн бұрын
Probably because immobility is a term with connotations of its own, given that aerodynamic devices inherently cannot be completely static or immobile under load. In the case of the McLaren, where the front wing is rigid but flexes past the bracket shown in videos. Any ambiguity around the spirit of the regulation may lie in that area of the design, and that the specific regulation pertains more to a safety aspect than anything else.
@siddhantdas33
10 күн бұрын
That graphic at 8:19 is scary af. Who the hell would've thought redbull would be 4th fastest in Monza and just ahead of .. Willams. 😨
@LaidbackLukee
10 күн бұрын
Petrifying
@paulsheridan291
9 күн бұрын
Asymmetric braking left with Newey
@LanaVEllison
10 күн бұрын
Typical fia. Aston had their wings banned last year , ferrari in 2017 had theirs banned before the summer break. But nah let's let this go on the whole year
@09csr
9 күн бұрын
those were actually breaching the rules though, they didn't pass the load tests properly. I'd say the way they handled the oil burning in 2017, where they found that both Mercedes and Ferrari breached the rules but only Ferrari was made to stop doing it. Same year and same breach, but only one effective penalty.
@simonb4757
9 күн бұрын
@@09csr*Citation Needed*
@xchaceee
9 күн бұрын
@09csr False. They originally all passed the FIA's load tests; the FIA just changed the way it was measured, and changed the parameters needed for them to now be legal. Funny that during the last decade, Zak was the one being the most vocal about everyone's flexi-wings... yet here we are 😂
@stevenst6337
9 күн бұрын
Redbull and Mercedes both had wings banned mid season in 2021 and they were passing all of the tests. But for some reason McLaren is getting a pass. My guess would be is because they’re the only team capable of beating Max/Redbull. Once Redbull shows up to a race with a flexi wing, it’s going to immediately be banned mid season and Mclaren will have to ditch it too.
@ajegelin
8 күн бұрын
@@stevenst6337I do t remember Mercedes ever having to change their wings. Their front wing flexed the most all through the 2021 season
@joen4088
10 күн бұрын
I think the original intent was to prevent active (mechanized) movement. The rule should just be re-written to allow passive mobility only.
@MitremTheMighty
10 күн бұрын
So in 2021 many teams had to change their wings mid-season *despite passing all static load tests* because it was "against the spirit of the rules", but now when the same loophole is being abused they are handling it differently? Surely, this does not reek foul play / backdoor deals / favoritism at all!
@andrewmelton2686
9 күн бұрын
Cry in costcap
@russotusso1695
9 күн бұрын
Only common things here is Mercedes...... It's been clear FIA has constantly been more likely to rule in favour of them and their customers, denying it is no longer possible.
@sergioferrero46
10 күн бұрын
The thing is, before Singapore 2023, flexiwings were banned, so I don't get why are they back
@Nuggy1980
10 күн бұрын
All wings flex or they would break. You can't ban it outright.
@snowrabbit9558
10 күн бұрын
Because it helps the UK 🇬🇧 TV market for liberty media. They can’t beat Red Bull the fair way 😂
@timnorth1800
10 күн бұрын
@@snowrabbit9558 Red Bull Racing is based in the UK lmao
@Mox2077
10 күн бұрын
@@snowrabbit9558 Are you talking about the same RB that just got busted for cheating with their brake system and had to remove it, and since then have suffered greatly in performance? And all their delusional fans still claim that it absolutely had nothing to do with their car going from being vastly superior to suddenly barely manage 3rd or 4th?! Sure! Keep lying to yourself, muppet!
@peeturpain9379
10 күн бұрын
@@snowrabbit9558 keep crying
@titancheat
10 күн бұрын
Haven't both rb and merc had wings thrown out because of this before?
@ohnename4981
10 күн бұрын
Yes in 2021
@dibdab101
10 күн бұрын
no, both teams passed all the tests in 2021. Now the FIA changed the tests mid season, and most teams on the grid had to modify their wings because otherwise they would not have passed the new tests. but no team ever failed a test in 2021 as far as I know.
@parabelluminvicta8380
9 күн бұрын
@@dibdab101 CH said something else too they passed the test but the wing were flexing more he admited that and because the static test is not affidable and doesnt take into account all the variables thats why Ferrari, willians and red bull want FIA to take action.
@Dyils
10 күн бұрын
2021: RB wings pass load tests but new tests are invented to get them banned. 2024: McLaren wings pass load tests but are clearly flexing more than rivals on cameras, but that's okay I guess... I'm not against flexi wings, in fact, I don't know why they keep banning them... Engineers should be able to flex their creativity. But the lack of consistency bothers me.
@Husqy44
10 күн бұрын
🇬🇧
@movichip8924
10 күн бұрын
Same here "I'm not against flexi wings, in fact, I don't know why they keep banning them"
@ferestrod3242
9 күн бұрын
"flex their creativity" nice pun lol
@sjsomething4936
10 күн бұрын
8:50 “the question is whether Red Bull is capable of doing this and was waiting for the FIA…” I have yet to see RB, or most teams for that matter, wait for the FIA to rule something legal or illegal. If there is a benefit to be gained they’ll pursue it and then plead for forgiveness after the fact. My money is on RB not having found the secret sauce that permits just the right amount of wing flex under load - ie the optimal aerodynamic shape with the right material composition. A rare time in this ground effect era they’ve been behind in developments, but as a spectator I’m pleased to see the variability at the top of the standings.
@MuhammadNiz007
10 күн бұрын
That's BS, you haven't watched F1 for long enough. Red bull protested DAS because they couldn't make it work, they protested double diffuser they couldn't make it work and all because those changed require fundamental design changes that are just not possibile in this stage especially redesigning the front wing conecpt mid season is nearly impossibilie and for 2025 it's too little too late
@AdityaVarmaMudunuri
10 күн бұрын
It's quite possible redbull don't have the budget to design one and bring the parts...
@sjsomething4936
10 күн бұрын
@@MuhammadNiz007 lol, I’ve been watching F1 since Jacques Villeneuve was racing. It’s definitely possible to design a new front wing, it’s nothing as difficult as DAS or double diffuser, although it could potentially require additional changes further down the body or floor in order to maximize its effectiveness. Someone else suggested they’re out of wind tunnel time, which is much more likely. Also possibly financial budget, they may not have expected rivals to catch up and even surpass them as much as they have and figured they’d pivot to the 2025 car(and beyond).
@sjsomething4936
10 күн бұрын
@@AdityaVarmaMudunuri yes, this and wind tunnel time might be their constraining factors, agreed.
@prypiatshadow6371
10 күн бұрын
Brother , retract the statement. The most obvious last time this sort of situation happened, was in 2019 when Ferrari allegedly developed an "illegal" engine. So what's my point? RedBull logged a queston, to clarify the rules about how fuel enters the engines. THEY WAITED, same with Mercedes, they knew that the rules already dissalowed the sort of things the Ferrari engine allegedly did, and held off, but ratted to the FIA. You're just wrong. PS: as some others have pointed out, trying to implement an expensive system, that could be marked illegal, in the cost cap era, is a REALLY BAD DECISION. Thats why they didin't do it with DAS.
@angrychicken3890
10 күн бұрын
I think flex wings should be embraced since the cars will be faster and advances in material sciences could be made trying to take more advantage of this. Plus, it gets rid of the complexity in having to investigate. Maybe other parts of the car too which would be really interesting on how they would introduce like active aero without the active part. It also makes the cars even more fuel efficient too which is one of the goals of the FIA.
@srthebox4946
10 күн бұрын
Not gonna really matter since in 2026, we’re gonna get active aero which defeats the purpose of flexi wing anyway.
@angrychicken3890
9 күн бұрын
@@srthebox4946 I wasn’t thinking 2026 and was considering the cars we already do have and hypothetically keeping them. Even though there will be controllable active aero elements in 2026, it would be really cool to know that they are basically doing it passively with material science and structural engineering in mind. It would be even cooler to see others if we could see other aero parts be tuned to be passively variable this way and see with what the teams come up with.
@driesvanoosten4417
9 күн бұрын
It is so bleedingly obvious that the MCL and MB wings have been designed to flex. They even have a gap which allow the outer part to pivot with respect to the inner part. I don't buy the argument that this is hard to regulate against because "some flex has to be allowed because the parts would otherwise snap". The only explaination I have for the lack of regulation is either incompetence or the fact that in this case, the fia may think flexi wings have been crucial to revive the championship.
@fam.hunger5244
9 күн бұрын
Aero elasticity has been used in F1 since the 1980s, starting with Rory Byrne's front and rear wing brackets, which allowed the wings to lean backwards in a controlled manner. Forti used concave underbodies in the early 90's with the sides curving downwards, McLaren in 1996 used a similar front wing to today that curved backwards, Ferrari in 1997 used a front wing that leaned with the sides towards the ground and Rory Byrne in 2003 introduced a flexible underbody, to name just the better known cases. In the early 00's this was even a major battleground and Ferrari were "the masters" of bending, with wings bending up to 7cm in some cases. So it's been a development area in F1 for a very, very long time. The media should stop portraying it as if things have been done in F1 over the last 10 years that are oh so blatant and everything is oh so progressive and superior. Aeroelasticity has been around in F1 for ages, since the 1980s in fact. You should mention this in a report like this and not give the impression that this has only been an issue in the last 10 to 15 years because it's so modern and progressive. F1 has always been like that and today's engineers come up with tricks that people like Newey, Head, Brawn or Byrne used almost half a century ago.
@Ytschi
9 күн бұрын
Point is - They create DRS like scenarios without having to follow the DRS ruleset. Which has to be regulated in some way. Otehrwise they could just scrap the whole DRS ruleset. I was never a fan of DRS, but if they want to keep it, they gotta shut down the workarounds.
@A350XLR
10 күн бұрын
It bothers me that RedBull 2021 front wing got banned for exactly the same thing. Why the difference now?
@robertvanzant2653
10 күн бұрын
The FIA is the difference .
@Weeji_420
10 күн бұрын
It's obviously not exactly the same thing. If it was, they would ban it. McLaren have sussed something out that's in the grey area, which is what all successful racing teams have done throughout the history of racing. The wing falls within the today's rules. And if it doesn't, it must be really hard to prove.
@nagaser
10 күн бұрын
Exactly like the RB wing in 2021 it passed all the Fia tests but thry changed the tests mid season why not now? 🤔@@Weeji_420
@Nemoticon
10 күн бұрын
@@robertvanzant2653Wrong, because the Mclaren and Merc wings actually passed the tests within the legal limits. Mclaren and Merc are just using the movement withing those legal limits to better results. It helps when you actually understand the technical side of the sport.
@ewenblack4174
10 күн бұрын
@@Weeji_420and it’s a totally different car
@EnduringPhoen1x
5 күн бұрын
Just while watching the recent races I specifically commented on how freaking bendy the McLaren wing was. I didn't notice it on the Mercedes but if it's there, that stuff needs fixed. You could clearly see the McLaren wing significantly deform on the T-cam through the suspension arms and the close-up just confirmed it. As much as I'd hate for Red Bull to catch up I'd much more prefer stiffening up on some of the technical rules. Just like how the rear wings had been designed to cut down on the aero wash but the teams immediately undercut the rules and went back to square wings basically.
@davewhittles
10 күн бұрын
flexi wings we've been down this path before i thought they stopped it
@RussGreeno
9 күн бұрын
They could introduce an air tunnel test, and every team has to submit a random front wing from their race selection post race. The FIA can then load test the traditional way and with aero. Any wing that fails, any car that was using an identical wing make up can be excluded from the results. There is not a shortage of wind tunnels.
@geetarthneo
10 күн бұрын
Ferrari and Redbull's performance upgrades: Witch craft and banned. Mercedes and Maclaren's performance upgrades: F1 don't know whether it is legal or illegal.
@SmOgER10
10 күн бұрын
yeah exactly. And it's funny how any rule relating to Mercedes literally never gets changed mid-season. But if it's Red Bull or Ferrari, TD gets issued promptly after like 2 weeks tops 🤣
@ederm2111
10 күн бұрын
*Potential to go faster exists* FIA: Yeah, we don't do that here
@simon9548
9 күн бұрын
Faster cars -> higher speeds -> need safer cars -> cars become even heavier
@ederm2111
8 күн бұрын
@@simon9548 - I don't understand your point. Flexible wings will improve performance but it won't magically allow them to go 300mph all of a sudden if that is what you are saying?
@Redskies453
10 күн бұрын
Just apply DRS to the front and rear wings and let all the cars do 400 on the straight.
@srthebox4946
10 күн бұрын
Thats what the 2026 regulations are for
@simon9548
9 күн бұрын
@@srthebox4946 And it will suck
@svendtveskg5719
9 күн бұрын
Remove 70% of all aero and go back to cars and not planes upside-down. Ruins racing, cost a fortune so attaracts mediocre drivers with lots of money and destroys the correlation to street cars. By far the greatest to watch right now is Formula Women, where the aero stuff is minimal, but there's full-on racing from start to finish.
@ProSpiney
9 күн бұрын
A big part of watching F1 for a few decades now IS the technical genius development i see being made. Creating a part that bends this perfectly should be applauded.
@urbanstrencan
9 күн бұрын
This is F1 the sport where teams need to find holes in the rule book, and make racing interesting that way. Is the pinnacle of technology ❤❤
@ricky4129
10 күн бұрын
FIA want to see which teams are affected before making a decision. Yeah that's very impartial rule making 😂
@michaeltelfer3483
10 күн бұрын
Guarantee if it was Ferrari and Red Bull doing this a TD would be implemented quickly
@Gleepglurp
10 күн бұрын
Quite your bitching and woe as me
@snowrabbit9558
10 күн бұрын
True! But now 🇬🇧drivers🇬🇧 are benefiting!😂
@philk1913
10 күн бұрын
Super impressed with Mclarens rise in form and new level of aero understanding.
@WhiteG60
10 күн бұрын
We all clowned on them for years when they said 'JUST YOU WAIT FOR OUR NEW WIND TUNNEL! YOU'LL SEE!'. We all rolled our eyes and thought 'Sure, Zak. Sure.' Guess the joke was on us because as soon as it came online they started making big gains really quickly.
@rotnbazturd7569
10 күн бұрын
umm dude this wing trick was used a few years ago and got banned, it's more about FIA playing games that has led to McLaren rise
@alexshank1414
10 күн бұрын
Once a Papaya, always a Papaya.
@snowrabbit9558
10 күн бұрын
@@rotnbazturd7569agreed! McLaren is running an illegal setup! But 🇬🇧 views on the rise again nobody cares! They needed this to stabilize the UK viewing audience.
@issahgyandi3365
10 күн бұрын
@@rotnbazturd7569 When you don't understand the technicalities....
@turbo_brian
9 күн бұрын
Is anyone else really tired of this subject? Like, I'm an engineer and I completely get it. The FIA should focus on changing the rules so we stop talking about this. Let a specified amount of deflection or some other way of making it black and white such as saying any deflection that occurs while still passing the deflection test is allowed so we can all move on. Let's talk about something else.
@simon9548
9 күн бұрын
A more flexible front wing could be exactly what Redbull need to fix their balance issues
@Baleygr_86
10 күн бұрын
So just to get this right. when redbull had a flexible part (that cleared all of the FIAs test without a probelm) they changed the rules/testing procedure mid-season to ban that part. But now its okey and they wont make a change until next season. hmmmmmmmmmm, seems a bit odd
@tilled6695
10 күн бұрын
not really, your just a casual viewer which is okay, but no totally different to anyone who understands the rules
@brilliantbeaches5389
10 күн бұрын
@@tilled6695 Bring arguments or stay quiet you emotional girl.
@Amstro515
10 күн бұрын
@tilled6695 then educate him then. Don't be acting high and mighty as if you weren't a casual before.
@dibdab101
10 күн бұрын
@@tilled6695 actually he is bang on. RBR or Mercs wings never got banned in 2021, and no team ever failed FIA tests. The FIA introduce new tests mis season which forced a lot of the teams on the grid to modify their wings to comply with the new tests, but no wing by any team ever got expressively banned. This year the FIA have not changed the way wings are tested, so as long as they pass the current tests, then they are legal....it is just a matter of the FIA choosing to intervene or not.
@V8HiluxZX6R
10 күн бұрын
I might be missing something obvious, but it seems like most of this could be solved by mandating the top wing elements must be one piece and attach to the nose like the other elements do and not allow this break where they deform from.
@michaelpaczynski941
3 күн бұрын
Wings are always designed with flex in mind. Aerofoils under load will always have twist and deflection. No perfectly rigid material exists. Teams are going to innovate. The Fai needs to encourage the teams innovate these features while assuring they are safe for drivers, crew and the fans.
@MrAl2742
10 күн бұрын
So what do you guys think in the future if F1 will allow teams to freely tune their entire front wings & rear wings to flex freely to achieve more performance. This is done in order to simplify the moving parts in the car such as actuators, so basically more freedom, simpler car, and no more discussions about flexi wings (because it's actually legal). I think this could be exciting because F1 would also pushing the known boundaries of material science!
@serenawatkins6875
10 күн бұрын
What I find quite noteworthy is how far McLaren have progressed under Andrea Stella. They seemed to stagnate under Seidl, which I can only put down to him not being able to step up to the world of F1 after working in the WEC, where tech, engineering and motorsport acumen is so much less. The fact he’s also been booted out of Audi F1 says it all.
@glennpley9279
10 күн бұрын
Why isn't anybody mentioning that Redbull's problems started on almost the exact same day that Newey announced he was leaving. I guess he hit the self destruct button on his way out.
@EliteRock
10 күн бұрын
No static load test could possibly emulate the forces exerted by air flow over the entire surface(s) of a front wing at a couple of 100 KPH or more. Not that I'm complaining, just saying. The only way to "level the playing field" would to be to mandate a standardised front wing, as with so much else on F1 cars, which has made it _so_ exciting .
@alextjb
9 күн бұрын
the frustrating part is now that we have a budget cap, we should open up the rules and whoever builds the best car under the cap wins. We get different cars AND don’t have to deal with these silly arguments
@UGRdelver
10 күн бұрын
Just allow flex wing as long as its passive and not actively actuated. Development cost should not be an issue as all teams are already exploring it anyway
@schlix101
9 күн бұрын
This is the ONE area that the FIA have NEVER been able to get on top off and probably never will, given the current vagueness of the rules! Bottom line is that flexi wings ARE against the spirit of the rules, but how can you ever effectively police this if you "have" to allow at least "some" flex??? I disagree with the notion that at least "some" flex has to be allowed, in the wings. I understand that the chassis must be able to bend... But the wing does NOT HAVE to flex!!! If the wing breaks off due to the load, it's simply NOT strong enough. Who says you can only use carbon fibre in the wing? Who says that the wing blades can only be a certain thickness? Now. I am not an F1 rule expert, but it is absolutely possible to force the teams to remove ANY flex without the wings breaking off!
@thomasconway95
9 күн бұрын
We have been down this road in 2010, where funnily enough it was the reverse. McLaren were complaining about Red Bull and Ferrari's flexible front wings. Both teams passed the standard tests so nothing was done. Arguably lost McLaren the championship that year.
@Alcatraz760
10 күн бұрын
I really hope the FIA aren’t dragging this out because of title fight implications, though even if mclaren got nerfed, the red bull is so middling, it wouldn’t change much
@iPain3G
10 күн бұрын
Without the flexy wing the balance of the car would change dramatically because McLaren has to reduce drag or increase the ride height to avoid bouncing on high speed passages. Look at Mercedes they had bouncing issues for over two years and since they got the flexy wing they could win races with the same car which was garbage before. Saying nothing will change when the flexy wings get banned couldn't be farther from the truth.
@arba71
10 күн бұрын
At this point making them legal would be more interesting compared to next gen's glorified DRS dubbed as "active aero".
@josephprocopio8423
10 күн бұрын
Doesn’t seem like McLaren is taking drivers seriously. They left over 10 points on the table between Hungary and Monza. They will probably regret that come the last race
@QuotidianStupidity
10 күн бұрын
@@josephprocopio8423 they only car about the constructors and keeping Oscar happy
@Issam-od4pg
9 күн бұрын
Eh probs not my guy their car is way too fast for it to matter, unless lando isn't maximizing the car which he has been doing since miami both championships are mclaren's to lose
@aussiewithapossie
8 күн бұрын
the front wing is more important than the floor think about how that front wing controls the entire handling of the car when cornering having to stiff of a front wings would introduce safety concerns
@dsistudios8446
10 күн бұрын
When Horner and co squeel, makes my day
@seven4221
9 күн бұрын
Flexi wings should just be allowed. I dont see any need for them to be banned and they're clearly impossible to police
@douginator19
10 күн бұрын
Whoever edited this video did an amazing job
@RabidJohn
9 күн бұрын
The FIA has been in almost complete denial over the last four decades since they first banned the ground-effect cars; cars that didn't even have front wings because they didn't need them. They banned the wrong thing! Aerodynamic downforce has been ruining formula racing (and many other series) since it was introduced by Lotus. It only works properly for the car in front, which creates turbulent, dirty air that is way less efficient for the cars behind. Get rid of wings and go 100% ground effect if you want to see better racing where the hole in the air created by the car in front helps the cars behind. I'd even bring back the Brabham-style fan.
@seinfeld11123
9 күн бұрын
FLEX is the Wrong word. the wing isn't flexing. its COMPRESSING the reason you want the front wing to compress like this is because. as the speed gets higher the forces/load on the wing increases, also drag increases. So if you can have the wings angle drop as the speed increases and you can do this in a reliable and repeatable way, you do a few things. 1. you make the downforce EVEN over all speeds. so as you get faster the wing angle drops but as the speed increases so does the load. so lowering the wing angle by making it compress (I dont think flexing is the right word) the force applied on the wing stays Equal/even over the whole speed profile 2. you lower the downforce as the speed climbs limiting the drag technically the wing isnt flexing . its *COMPRESSING* Flexing would be if you were to pick the wing up by each end and then trying to bend/brake it and the wing would touch both ends. this would be *Flexing* instead all that happens when the speed/load increases over the flaps they just get pushed down aka compressing. look at it this way. when a piston is on its COMPRESSION stroke you dont say its flexing the piston or the fuel to compress it do you? No you say it's compressing. it's 2 totally different actions
@michaelpaczynski941
3 күн бұрын
There is a rule of thumb that the backside of the wing does 3x more work than the “compression” leading /front… A group of elements work together to energize the air into the next element, compounding efficiency. It’s the boundary layer on backside of a wing or group of wings which does the real work. Rear defusers work on this principle to create downforce. For evidence, look at a f1 car in the wet to see how aggressively water is accelerated in to air going from low pressure under the car to near ambient pressure behind the car, especially when the drs is open. Each element is always designed to “twist” and “flatten” its downforce in predicted ways at defined speeds which is why wings are designed for individual tracks and even adjusted for changes in ambient air pressure. Kyle engineering on KZitem has excellent articles into how f1 aero works.
@stevenst6337
9 күн бұрын
Redbull was told to change their wing mid season last year with even less bend. McLaren however is being given until the end of the season and then next year that very same wing is banned.
@TheSpaldozer
10 күн бұрын
Who TF pronounces opacity "Oh-pace-ity"
@daftgowk1
10 күн бұрын
Uncanny, i heard him say it as i read your comment. First class, and weird pronunciation
@C.I...
10 күн бұрын
Someone with a small vocabulary who is reading a script without knowing what all the words mean.
@quigglyz
10 күн бұрын
@@C.I... This is the correct answer.
@MrGaryjames1
6 күн бұрын
The irony of red bull complaining about flexible elements when to be honest they used to be the masters of this dark art for years isn't lost on me.
@charlesdick1133
10 күн бұрын
The grey areas in the guidance and regs are the best thing about F1. Finding the ambiguity, exploiting it, and upending a once dominant team. I’m all for the drama (as long as it’s legal, of course!)
@GanymedeAxis
9 күн бұрын
It's amazing how McLaren doesn't have an attention grabbing TD like Newey and Allison yet are ahead of the field by quite some margin.
@RastadasPT
9 күн бұрын
Why no video of the RB's dark art braking system installed only on one car? Not interesting enough?
@djmohab2
10 күн бұрын
Ferrari International Assistance about to have them banned
@minimelegend
10 күн бұрын
Just let the front wings go crazy and flap around 😂
@romulosteca5324
10 күн бұрын
FIA should start to focus more in the budget cap and less on the regulations themselves. Without infinite money there is no need for such restrictive rules. Apart of course from safety the rules should allow the teams to do whatever they want with the money.
@dohc_au
9 күн бұрын
Toto - C'mon Zaaaack, I gave you engine. Please tell us how you go so fast?? Zack. B- Listen Toto, that's not how this work's. BUT, I'll give you one element... Our nose wing flexes flat on straights.... Toto- Arrrrgh Brilliant JA!
@SoLoDoLo77.
10 күн бұрын
Domenicali and MBS have been reluctant to interfere the past few years...but those sweet, sweet ratings/ engagement are too tempting now
@kawaiikeyboards
9 күн бұрын
honestly after all that has happened to Red Bull this year I think Newey is laughing about how much Red Bull are struggling without him. Red Bull can say their drivers and constructors title goodbye, its probably too late to make changes this late.
@dohc_au
9 күн бұрын
McLarens biggest hurdle right now, is admitting to themselves that Piastri is the better driver. Piastri is ruthlessly consistent, each week. Better at starts and a lot cooler under pressure.
@marcpaola1371
8 күн бұрын
Really races are 10- and qualifying is 12-3 in landos favour, lando is also neatly 50 points ahead of Oscar, so how exactly is Oscar better, take Zanvoort for example where Oscar is usually 10-20 seconds behind lando at races end.
@dohc_au
8 күн бұрын
@@marcpaola1371 its oscars 2nd season, the team have pushed Lando as their number 1 driver for a while now, and sure he is a fantastic talent, unfortunately a younger even more takented driver has driven just as well with older upgrades and not the focus driver. Put him in Landos position. Oscar will only get better, whereas Lando has hit his ceiling, and will soon be overtaken. Whether the team and he likes it.
@user-pf8jo8hi6m
9 күн бұрын
Of course, if every team was using exactly the same front and rear wings, mandated by the FIA and manufactured by a single independent manufacturer, none of this would be an issue, plus the racing would be much closer and therefore more enjoyable to watch.
@zibingotaeam3716
6 күн бұрын
That's not the point of F1. What you're describing is a spec series and if that's what you're after, go watch F3 or Indycar.
@cmutton359
10 күн бұрын
Another great technical video that considers the full impact. Thank you
@thekauders567
10 күн бұрын
to Red bull to quote the boss "You've got a problem, change your f**king car".
@PLZFrosty
9 күн бұрын
Mercedes has been doing this for years, yet no-one said anything about them until McLaren started doing it...
@Raptorman0909
10 күн бұрын
I think it's time we give up the notion that 'active aero' is bad and legalize it so every team can use it. I mean, DRS is active aero but only partly so so why not allow the front and rear wings to be like airplane wings that change shape to increase or decrease life as needed. Make the wings small enough that the effect is reduced, but giving every team the same chances should actually lower costs and improve the relative performance of back marker teams. Lock down the floor at this stage, but allow the front and rear wings to be active aero devises. I'd also look to require the exit from the diffuser be somewhat laminar to reduce the disturbed air behind the cars.
@joelfernando1
10 күн бұрын
The video says it all: when a team that hardly scores any point has now their cars winning races, something fishy is going on.
@The_Curious_Cat
9 күн бұрын
When Mercedes introduced the new front wing but wasn't competitive: Horner: *I sleep When Mercedes started being competitive: Horner: "That front wing is illegal!!" lol
@arhaangupta2988
10 күн бұрын
I am no RB or Ferrari fan, but Mclaren's wing moves most probably an illegal amount with that footage
@rkentwenger5095
9 күн бұрын
No physical object is 100% rigid -- it's not just a matter of whether things would break -- it's literally impossible to make anything 100% rigid. Really, though, I don't understand why flexible aero is inherently a problem. As long as the wings are safe, and are passing the defined tests, why shouldn't a team be able to be smarter about having their wings flex in a controlled way? Why is that worse than being smarter about any other aspect of the car? It seems like getting more and more specific about defining the allowed flex will just turn into a never-ending wormhole (or already has?).
@MsZeeZed
10 күн бұрын
Monza straights are the most fierce for this and SPOILERS : the FIA already said, they’re legal.
@Flatlander_
9 күн бұрын
Red bull should try X braking. I believe it may help 🤠🤠🤠
@kevinamery5922
10 күн бұрын
In order to properly police this the FIA is probably going to have to switch from load tests to optical tests -- place a camera or laser in a specified position on the nose pointed at the wing and put markings at specific lengths along the wing, then record the distances to those markers around a lap. This way they can detect how much deflection is happening when the car runs through the air rather than trying to crudely simulated it with weights.
@QuotidianStupidity
10 күн бұрын
@@kevinamery5922 they already thought of that, which is why all the cars now have cameras
@syedsaeed7183
10 күн бұрын
Flexi wings have been used before.....
@ramezehab662
10 күн бұрын
And now they're illegal ...
@snowrabbit9558
10 күн бұрын
@@ramezehab662not when you are a 🇬🇧 driver 😆
@abeth1518
9 күн бұрын
I think its legal because the FIA simply lacks an objective way of measuring the flex,
@marko4480
9 күн бұрын
Instead of those fins they should put there a U bracket that will limit deformation leave the wing few cm of flex
@outlawrob316
9 күн бұрын
The way to police this is to remove the static load tests and use the camera measurements taken in race conditions to measure deflection. This would remove the engineering of wings designed to pass the test (the letter of the law) but still act as a movable aerodynamic device during the race (the spirit). Otherwise we’ll keep having this conversation ad infinitum.
@Arnechk
7 күн бұрын
Deflection of what is the question. Then they will make some trivial bar that doesnt move and let the flaps be really soft and it will conform to the rules as the "extreme part of the wing" does not deflect. You would have to set up 3D parameters, volume of movement or something. All wings being different, its impossible. They cannot put hundred probes with sensors over the top of a wing, since they don't know what part is rated/designed for what load.
@Mountain-Man-3000
10 күн бұрын
Aero components certainly can be entirely rigid and not break under load. The cars might weigh a lot more, but it's certainly feasible. Air is not an unstoppable force, nor an immovable object.
@stormageddon248
10 күн бұрын
So it’s not illegal. Good to know. I’m so curious to how they were able to make it flex so much more than the rest. The McLaren and Merc look very different but gotten similar results it’s fascinating.
@ballerblocks
10 күн бұрын
It's the brakes, I remember Lewis's last maclaren, it was stiffer than a teenage morning glory, He was always adjusting diff settings between corners. Now the red bull has lost the party trick, we get commentators trying to convince us it's not the brake magic.
@Project212Youtube
9 күн бұрын
Thanks The Race to use my models!
@tjw4947
9 күн бұрын
Red Bull Pioneered areo-elastic front wings back when Vettle was the golden boy. They gotta be doing this on purpose.
@KaraWisdom
9 күн бұрын
If Redbull was capable of having a wing as flexi as Mclaren they would have it already. Redbull always push any limit they can
@thunderpants007
10 күн бұрын
Electrical energy through the wing causing deformation? Perhaps material that bends with building downforce yet more rigid under instant pressure tests.
@Efilnikufesin76
9 күн бұрын
I'm still pissed they made Norris give it back to Piastri in Hungary. He was in the zone there, was flying at that point and increasing the gap.. I know what they were trying to do, but they F'd Lando for the DC. Lando has consistently out driven every team member he has had and has always kept MC in the top of the pack. You know RB would have let Verstappen win. Plus MC would be in much better shape without a couple of race plan blunders. MC has a shot here. Who knows that they won't end fighting for best in the middle of the pack again next year.
@gmbsmkd8888
7 күн бұрын
They should legalize flexi wing.. or even better, active aero 💪
@StephenLee529
9 күн бұрын
No more Sunday drives for RB and Max. I love it…! We the fans win…!
@mahadevovnl
9 күн бұрын
I think all of this is a distraction from the real issue. It sounds plausible for sure, and that's the problem. I think it's all engineered on a social level. RBR was lightyears ahead of everybody else and McLaren was just as much behind. What we're seeing isn't just a front wing thing, it's artificial. F1 is a sport but it's also an entertainment company that involves billions. Or are we gonna pretend that Leclerc winning Monaco and Monza is a mysterious happy event? It's fan service. Happy fans -> more income -> more viewers -> happy sponsors -> happy investors -> more sponsors.
@jaymoore332
10 күн бұрын
Just get rid of the prohibition on movable bodywork. Why did it ever exist? Like most tech rules, to keep costs under control. If movable bodywork were allowed, everyone would have to do it, and spend the money to do it. With the cost cap, this is no longer a factor. Teams should be allowed to develop whatever innovations they like; the teams that choose the most cost-effective advances will win.
@zerueluk
10 күн бұрын
if it's illegal and will be banned next year, why not ban it now? why allow the advantage for the rest of the year? it's unfair on teams who aren't exploiting this grey area, with the cost cap and just 8 races remaining are they expected to make a whole new wing just to have it made illegal next season?
@arnoldpraesent174
9 күн бұрын
Its all about the show... who wants to see win only one team straight... Management is interested in having controverity and they want to have a good show = better ticket sales = more money. Thats what this is all about. Quite simple - isn't it? Same in FIM - MotoGP eg... Ducati does something - others are screming - after a while they do it also, everything gets balanced again so it will be removed / banned again. Thats the way FIA and FIM keeps the show going.
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