I genuinely think Hbox video essays are the way to go instead of just gameplay videos.
@DogusAmbrosius
9 ай бұрын
Same
@nathanlevesque7812
9 ай бұрын
Just needs to stop slandering GnW with polar opposite descriptions of how works.
@125conman
8 ай бұрын
@Axe and he stream highlight videos he's been putting out since like 2017
@augustgreig9420
8 ай бұрын
I can confirm that this is true as someone who has never played Smash, watched maybe 4 matches, and have never watched gameplay footage and didn't even realize until you just pointed it out that these videos were made by one of the "gods" of Smash. The fact is, the videos are just interesting and well done, and they explain just the right amount about the game that a non Smash player like myself can follow them, but also don't go into so much detail that a person familiar with competitive gaming, and specifically FGC, doesn't find it boring and repetitive.
@isocle
8 ай бұрын
So much more effort to make, but equally proportionally better!
@4546Bean
9 ай бұрын
It’s such a shame these Bayo players never learned how to talk to a lady, if only there was someone they could ask about it
@Sean-qg3gg
9 ай бұрын
It’s such a shame that Pit players have been unable to literate.
@awxii_
9 ай бұрын
It's such a shame that Captain Falcon players have never been shown any moves before.
@Quackra
9 ай бұрын
@@Sean-qg3ggIt's such a shame that Lucina players can't protect themselves
@connoromalley4004
9 ай бұрын
If only Marth players had someone to take away their meat.
@parkerturner9766
9 ай бұрын
It's such a shame that Mr. Game and Watch players can't go back after going black.
@enderdude2614
9 ай бұрын
Bro please keep making these story-type videos. They are actually godlike
@rimzaaah5892
9 ай бұрын
I just hope he makes sure to stay on topic, he didn't answer the question the entire video
@slackair
9 ай бұрын
ghost ride the whip peanutbuttergamer rainbow tylenol mashup
@Baggerz182
7 ай бұрын
repent to God
@salemmetal6433
9 ай бұрын
I think another point for Sheik being less hated was Sheik was incredibly skillful and expressive. If smash 4 kept sheik as the best i genuinely think it would be remembered as a significantly better game
@Kapow59
9 ай бұрын
Sheik also died to total bullshit at 40% so everyone kinda felt bad for the players lol
@nathanlevesque7812
9 ай бұрын
*cheesy
@dennisreynolds1503
9 ай бұрын
Sheik also lost her grab 50 50 kill confirm so had to rely on the f tilt 50 50. She got nerfed but bayo was ridiculous throughout. Bayo shoukdve been banned and so should steve
@RaFaPilgrim
8 ай бұрын
Smash 4 Sheik was so fun that sometimes I still go back to my 3DS just to get a little taste of how things used to be.
@colmecolwag
8 ай бұрын
speak for yourself, I'd watch bayos and steves all day over Shieks.
@ShirmaAkayaku
9 ай бұрын
I feel like nobody talks about how prevalent Cloud was in Smash 4 doubles. It genuinely killed the viewing experience for me seeing at least 2 to 3, sometimes 4 Clouds in each match. I remember there was a Google docs study showing that Cloud in doubles was more prevalent than Bayo singles. I wish I could remember the figures, but it was like 80% of top 64 / top 32 had Cloud within the last few years of Smash 4's life. Bayo might've ended Smash 4, but Cloud ended doubles before Bayo even came out.
@salemmetal6433
8 ай бұрын
Yup this is true. Cloud was ridiculous. I played cloud myself and 100% advocated for a ban on him in doubles, not even like a 1 cloud Limit like a straight up ban
@resean2727
8 ай бұрын
So you were part of the problem lol@@salemmetal6433
@WellToastedBagel
9 ай бұрын
There is a reason I like to think Shiek was never hated, at least to the same degree as Bayo anyways. Sheik still felt like she was playing Smash 4. Either finding a grab for guaranteed early damage, or chipping away at your opponent past 20-30% so that her combos/advantage can finally do its thing. Bayonetta felt like she was playing in her game of origin, and you are the unfortunate cpu enemy getting hit with a 20 hit combo that kills you in the process.
@JayfEver1
9 ай бұрын
smash devs when they have to make dlc fair 😞
@MilkshakeVA
9 ай бұрын
pay 5 dollars to be instantly good at the game 😔
@yungmuney5903
9 ай бұрын
They gotta get more money somehow
@BaronBears
9 ай бұрын
Unless its Sephiroth 😞
@averytubestudios
9 ай бұрын
Or Sora…
@JayfEver1
9 ай бұрын
@@averytubestudios or banjo lmao
@BoxoSpoons
8 ай бұрын
I always think about how at the time there were people at my (at the time) college who would set up a tv and Wii U to play smash 4, and I ended up stopping by most days to play with them. It was a lot of fun to watch and play, and since some of the people who set it up played seriously, I was able to get their advice to improve at the game as characters I liked. Then, one of the serious players started playing Bayonetta all the time to "practice". Since they used a "best two out of three, winner stays in loser drops out" system, this guy naturally ended up playing pretty much the whole time, just using the same broken combos to steamroll anyone who played against him. As you can imagine, this meant that playing the game meant just getting destroyed by the same character using the same techniques that you'd have basically no chance of countering, and watching anyone else play was just watching the same character beating everybody the exact same way (I realized pretty quickly the only time it was ever exciting was when he started losing). As you can imagine, I just kind of ended up trailing off on showing up there, since the only way I'd get anything out of it would be if I seriously picked up Cloud for the sole purpose of trying to counter Bayonetta, and obviously that didn't interest me. It's really interesting to me in retrospect how that ended up as my own little microcosm of what Bayo did to Smash 4's scene.
@konajohnson6182
9 ай бұрын
Crazy thing is that even though she got nerfed into the ground in Ultimate, she’s still fairly viable competitively. At her core, her combos are still there, they just took out the busted kill of the top combo which I feel is well deserved cause it was too easy to perform and killed way too early. She’s one of my secondaries besides my mains Ken and Joker but man is she extremely fun once you get her down in her new state.
@EnheTook50Benadryl
9 ай бұрын
Crazy?
@javitheswiftie
9 ай бұрын
she's only viable now because she got buffed, when the game came out bayo was not viable
@WhitePointerGaming
9 ай бұрын
When Ultimate came out Bayo was pretty bad. She's only become viable after receiving buffs.
@yungmuney5903
9 ай бұрын
I hate the extra landing lag for every special that is used, even when you land without using an aerial. It just made her feel so clunky. She plays like she has serious menstrual health issues but refuses to go to the doctor.
@OkairMcLaren
8 ай бұрын
For some reason they decided to up the lag for her using her specials but didn't make her grounded normals remain the same way so she can pressure just like the other characters. In smash 4 she didn't have special lag until she used 2 or more special moves not 1. However, in ult once she uses 1 special move she has a yrs worth of lag. @@yungmuney5903
@WhitePointerGaming
9 ай бұрын
I think Bayo would have been banned following that Evo grand final if Smash Ultimate hadn't been announced and had a release date by then. Since the new game was coming though, I think everyone just collectively decided to put up with it for a bit longer and then left Smash 4 behind.
@salemmetal6433
8 ай бұрын
Which is a shame tbh. I wish they just fucking banned her because the game was genuinely very cool outside of her imo. Like Rosa and sonic were kinda lame sure but honestly they were way less obnoxious and lame than like at least a handful of the meta characters in ultimate
@grimsdol4665
9 ай бұрын
I welcome vids like this, retrospective critical looks at smash, always nice to have so competitive scene can learn and improve on how to handle these kinds of situations
@Saxxy_Mann
9 ай бұрын
dont let this video distract you guys from the fact that yesterday hbox was quoted saying "corrin feet YES!" on stream
@LukeA471
8 ай бұрын
I have to agree
@phillipanselmo8540
8 ай бұрын
I wonder how he feels about Juri
@Garbagecant24
8 ай бұрын
Corrin feet?
@LukeA471
8 ай бұрын
@@Garbagecant24 yes the best thing
@juhanakaarlehto7754
9 ай бұрын
3:46 You have to take in consideration that ssbu's roster is 89 and smash 4 is just 51. For ultimate, if all characters are represented equally, there would be 1,1% frequency for any given character, conversely 2,0% for smash 4. So the frequenct for beyonetta is 13,6%/2,0% = 6,8 times the average and steve is 4,4%/1,1% = 4 times. So really beyo was more like 2 times more frequent than steve when taking into account the different sizes of the rosters.
@artsenor254
9 ай бұрын
Though this is true, I still think mentionning the 3x factor gives you a better picture in this case, cause that’s how it feels for the viewers and the players. When you watch a tournament overwhelmed with Bayo’s, you won’t consider how many you had to expect.
@TheRTDZ
8 ай бұрын
Taking in account Pokémon Trainer and Pyra/Mythra, the correct roster number is 86. 1/86 is closer to 1.2%, and 4.4% / 1.2% is 3.6. So yeah, Bayonetta being twice as successful as Steve is correct… for now.
@thunder7444
9 ай бұрын
Love this video format. There's a lot of history and past incidents to look back on, so hopefully we'll see more vids like this one from you.
@Gengar-2
8 ай бұрын
8:06 huge respect to that guy for disencouraging the crowd from booing
@Malky36t
9 ай бұрын
I for sure think Bayo would’ve been banned had ultimate not already been announced, I remember cloud bans in doubles were being tested quite frequently despite the looming presence of ultimate
@treddox5880
8 ай бұрын
Smash Ultimate is now older than Smash 4 was when Ultimate released. Dang. And there’s no future game in sight. Dang.
@DemonTwink69
9 ай бұрын
Bayo’s biggest nerf between games was without a doubt to her forward air.
@twelvenation6393
8 ай бұрын
She still does 76% damage in her combo, she’s still op
@4days604
8 ай бұрын
@@twelvenation6393 Doing big damage =/= op, not even viable especially with early ult bayo, bayo severely struggles to kill outside of backair, her forwardair extensions kept bayos combos, while still long, closer to the middle of the screen, which to the knockback nerfs of both upair and feels like fair, she didnt have anything to kill reasonably unles she got you out there at the percent she can combo AND kill at reasonably, she cant kill early because her options are rediculously slow, and she cant combo at high percents due to the changes of up b and side b practically killing some higher percent routes. And good riddance, she has alot, but she doesnt have everything now, her edge gaurding is great, having holdable aireals really helps with that, but youre much less likely to get touch of deathed by bayo, and even less likely to die at higher percents off a combo
@twelvenation6393
8 ай бұрын
@@4days604 I play Lucas and she can trap me in a combo right off the rip with 76% damage every single time. She’s way too OP just the fact you can’t escape it
@glatykoffi6672
8 ай бұрын
@@4days604 the bigger the comment, the hotter the air ngl
@gbx4858
8 ай бұрын
@@twelvenation6393skill issue
@mjul7003
8 ай бұрын
He didn't even mention the five frame punish window against Witch Time. *FIVE FUCKING FRAMES.*
@cedricrust9953
9 ай бұрын
Unexpected, but very cool to see you make such a video, Hbox! Keep em coming, you're providing great insight. Appreciate the data points too.
@killerbeanfan64
9 ай бұрын
You actually are naturally built for smash video essays. Would love to see you narrate more vids on smash history
@Taymankill
9 ай бұрын
Wtf I got a Honda Motacompacta ad that had Hungrybox as an actor before the video started
@hectorsjourneys8249
8 ай бұрын
I love this style of video, and having a person so important and knowledgeable about the community like you makes them so worth it. Keep up the awesome work!
@bazzbrunkz
9 ай бұрын
6:06 To be fair, DK had an awful matchup against Yoshi back in Smash 4 so that could have been why DKWill chose Sheik in that set. I doubt that it had to do with just Sheik being the best character in S4 back then haha.
@DKwill
9 ай бұрын
Raptor is also my crewmate, and I knew he disliked fighting Sheik. My strategy was to camp with needles bc I didn't know the S4 Yoshi matchup that well yet and I knew if I went DK I would have gotten wrecked at the time lol. Yoshi feels like a matchup that I have to relearn each game bc they keep buffing the character haha. Eventually I go back and play it again with DK when I'm more comfy.
@SealyTheSeal
9 ай бұрын
@@DKwill holy cow it's the man himself
@R15Sammy
9 ай бұрын
Man I miss Smash 4 Sheik so much. I understand why she got the changes she did, but she was such a cool top tier in that game. Great video. You're really good at writing this type of stuff.
@OkairMcLaren
8 ай бұрын
Right idk how people get hyped for her combos in ult they are the same combos over and over again and people cheer for it lol.
@epu7539
8 ай бұрын
- HBox makes a huge video essay to show how broken Bayonetta was in Smash 4 - Some random annoying AF Bayonetta player: Skill Issue
@clips7808
9 ай бұрын
3:45 This 4.35% vs 14% comparison is pretty flawed. Not only does it not take into account that Ultimate has over 30 more characters to spread that distribution over, but it also glosses over what he mentioned literally one minute prior that late 2018 was when many non-Bayo players were either taking a break from the game or selling out to the Bayonetta pick. He's comparing the state of late-2018 Smash 4, a game soon to be replaced, to 2023 Ultimate, a game with no sequel in sight. Overall just a very sensationalist statistic, and it (along with other parts of the video) just substantiates the idea that you should probably only watch videos looking back on Smash 4 created by people who made the game their first priority in its prime.
@timmyb.3426
8 ай бұрын
Such an interesting and important topic to cover in Smash history. I remember hearing about how bad people hated Bayonetta in Smash 4 online, it got to the point where I actually felt good that I was genuinely terrible with her and mained a mid tier character instead (Lucas). For a similar video, I would like to see a video like this be made for Brawl Meta Knight (if there hasn't been one already). Definitely seems like another character that should have a video essay similar to this.
@beardalaxy
8 ай бұрын
I remember a lot of the discourse around why Bayonetta wasn't banned back then was that people didn't want to make it seem like they were being bitches and banning a character instead of finding and grinding counterplay against her. I do remember that double Cloud in doubles was banned at some point, I think Bayo was as well but not too sure about that one.
@sharkronical
9 ай бұрын
Sm4sh player seeing 4 bayo in top 8: 😡 Melee player seeing 7 foxes in top 8: ⭐️🤩🥳💫🎉 ⬡ ⬡ ⬡ 🔫 🦊 ⬡ ⬡ ⬡
@EmperorPenguin1217
9 ай бұрын
So true lmao
@HastyMang0
9 ай бұрын
And this is a new era to begin in this channel, and god damn am I super down for these kind of videos! Again, keep those coming!
@Clemjason14
8 ай бұрын
I discovered Hbox thanks to Bronol's documentary on the 5 gods of Melee (I am French btw) and I love documentaries/stories/folklore about the Smash games. I did not know exactly what was the problem with Bayonetta in Smash 4 and your video was very clear and fun to watch. So thank you and please do not hesitate to release more videos of this kind, I think they are great ! And you make for a very good narrator too. Hope to see more stuff like this one soon again ! Why not something about SMB 64 players still active to this day ? Like how the meta evolves (or not) after so many years...
@michaelkarim57
9 ай бұрын
Kinda important to note after patch 1.1.6 people started thinking Bayo was only a upper high tier... of course they were very wrong.
@AwesomeMooseSmile
8 ай бұрын
I think my favorite moment of the smash scene with smash 4 is that this clearly oppressive character was never banned, yet they decide to ban the miis because "oh they can change their specials even though changing characters does the same thing, and mii brawler has a kill confirm!!!!" This fanbase is not very bright.
@sean77408
9 ай бұрын
Great video, love this kind of content! One recommendation tho is to use a pop filter when recording or use some high pass EQ (or even better iZotope RX DePlosive) to cut down on the plosives in the voiceover. They’re suuuper noticeable especially on headphones!
@zeusdeegoose
9 ай бұрын
please do more of these, i loved this one!
@sasaki999pro
8 ай бұрын
11:44 _"You know how Smashers are about moving on"_ Hungrybox, competitive Melee player.
@lysanderxx1664
8 ай бұрын
Reminds me of all the EVO and other tournaments top 8 where Melee almost always had 6-7 Fox players. In other news, someone saying ZeRo's name on KZitem?! That hasn't happened in years.
@TehWhiteTiger
9 ай бұрын
You seriously can't compare Steve to Bayo. They aren't even close to the same league of broken in their respective game.
@abduleshabbar9223
9 ай бұрын
Maybe not yet, but only because Steve mains are using mayebe 1\4 of what he can actually do. If Steve was actually refined like bayonetta was at the end we would see the exact same result. That’s his point in fact. Steve isn’t that bad yet, but given time and lack of a new game, he will be. Instead of waiting for that to happen we should do something. The success of LMBM is a sign that that’s exactly what spectators want as well.
@ho0zy
9 ай бұрын
steve is worse
@Fishman465
9 ай бұрын
Hard to say, depends on how much payout Steve has for all that effort. ( SSN4 bayo seems to have an insane effort:payout ratio even compared to the Aegis sisters) Gotta sat such single character dominance happens in other games like how I think street fighter 4 AE was dominated by Yun
@doodoo2065
9 ай бұрын
Steve is still polarizing even if he isnt as broken. He is still op tho, he is the top 1 for a reason
@jameswilliams3416
9 ай бұрын
@@abduleshabbar9223did you actually watch the video?
@tobyfx6376
9 ай бұрын
This was a perfect video bc I wasn’t around in Sm4sh. I’ve heard the stories but I didn’t know like in depth why she was so broken and everything about it
@joshuaben-nun6090
8 ай бұрын
great high quality video! this is like those hbox reacts videos but its actually you, and there are definitely so many more stories that can be shared
@deadfr0g
9 ай бұрын
It’s either because the community had the weakest will, or because they had the strongest will. NO IN-BETWEEN!!
@BlazenMikay
9 ай бұрын
The issue with the charts the shown in the 6 min ish mark the 2018 numbers is by then those were also the lowest entry points in sm4sh history and the influencers influencing the games views on bayo is what makes it look like bayo numbers were oppressive.
@salemmetal6433
9 ай бұрын
Literally, a lot of top players were entering less or quit too
@BlazenMikay
9 ай бұрын
@@salemmetal6433 but that’s the thing. Only reason why melee has surpassed and outlived is because of generation and legacy’s. That game was plagued by people saying 20xx fox will take over or jiggly puff is evil piece of crap. But neither is true. Is the precipitation the community creates. Brawl lasted so long because of those who loved it. Most of those legends became the founding fathers for sm4sh until the next generation came. But then EVERYONE SHITTED ON THEIR STORYS whether you were a bayo player or not. If it wasn’t bayo it was going to be other characters. Either way history repeats itself and now we love / hate the latest game ultimate while looking back at sm4sh like more defensive but kinda fun. Most players are hella fickle and don’t like getting good or improving or taking criticisms from players supposedly worst then you or better then you. The smash community is now plaque with the same issue like the FGC. Instead of embracing a classic because it’s becoming harder to play you move on to what ever is “easier” to get your hands on. Instead of talking with your wallets. Y’all consume :3.
@EinSilverRose
9 ай бұрын
Don't let this video let you forget how Smash 4 Corrin could KO with their counter if the opponent was at 30% before it was nerfed. But yeah Bayonetta in Smash 4 was clearly the absolute best character with no counter play other than the Bayo player having to play badly and should have been banned. Smash 4's DLC were just bad in that they were either bad to okay or too good.
@nirgunawish
8 ай бұрын
when you do longer video's they're actually good videos it's positively surprising me
@ianm2757
8 ай бұрын
My question is how bayonetta compares to meta knight in brawl. He was just as bad in his game right? Maybe he's not remembered for killing competitive smash bros because there wasn't this awful spectacle that ruined it for people? It seems like brawl just faded away in comparison to ssb4
@wade2112
8 ай бұрын
I think it's mostly about timing. Competitive melee was getting really popular and Cloud was recently added so there was a lot of interest in smash as a whole. At the time I remember playing smash 4 and thinking "wow project m and melee take way more skill" and then watching competitive melee rather than playing or watching smash 4. And also For Glory mode helped keep the game alive
@nhlfan1001
8 ай бұрын
This is the kind of thing that happens when a company genuinely does not care about the competitive scene for their game. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing though
@jankounchained4211
9 ай бұрын
As a Charizard main from Smash 4, I can tell you right now I had no choice but to learn the Diddy Kong and Shiek match up because it seemed like every other match was against one of them lol I ended up not fearing either match ups, and with Zards buff he actually did decent against both of them
@Deen12864
8 ай бұрын
Can we have more of these kinds of videos, it's always do cool to see your perspective on this stuff
@TriforceTrooper66
9 ай бұрын
As someone new to the smash scene this was great! Would love more story time videos covering stuff like legendary tourney runs and moments
@Darth_Zabrak
9 ай бұрын
I would love to see videos like this become a series, the history of a character would be an incredible series to watch
@sebadg5702
9 ай бұрын
you have a great voice and tone for these kind of videos! keep it up!
@Matpit18
9 ай бұрын
I think one of the reasons why the community didn’t decide to ban Bayonetta was because of Smash Ultimate finally having an official release date around the time the discussion was brought up. I think the community just all collectively decided to put up with it for just a little bit longer and then just leave her, along with the rest of Smash 4, in the dust when Ultimate comes out.
@MonkeyKingSSBM
9 ай бұрын
Bayonetta felt more broken than Meta Knight, she simply broke the tier list
@christianmedina4107
9 ай бұрын
No way, the brawl competitive was meta Knight. Bayo was the best, but you can win with another character
@salemmetal6433
9 ай бұрын
@christianmedina4107 that's not even to mention that S4s most dominant player never used bayo and even to this day says Diddy beat bayo which a lot of top Bayos agreed with too, Bayo had a losing MU, MK Def did not
@avacado370
9 ай бұрын
So much so that I consider sm4sh as a mainline bayonetta game, in other words we got bayonetta 3 six years before the actual bayonetta 3.
@OkairMcLaren
8 ай бұрын
please remember bayo was nerfed so she wasn't at her best. She did not lose to diddy so idk where you get this from. @@salemmetal6433
@themonoloco8245
9 ай бұрын
Bayo was not broken just lore accurate 😅.
@Crzypengu
9 ай бұрын
Pretty much
@----x-----
2 ай бұрын
she was lucky kirby wasn't lore accurate too
@xingyanglan6836
9 ай бұрын
I love this storytelling form of content! Would love to see more videos in this format in the future :)
@hurtboychulo7371
8 ай бұрын
"Meta" in games normally tend to fuck the game up
@asterlofts1565
7 ай бұрын
I think the problem is precisely when a game is excessively competitive... but TO THE EXTREME. Something similar is happening to Counter-Strike in general (except 1.6, because many NO LONGER PLAY IT and the competitive game moved to CS:GO and CS2). Being competitive is not bad, but like any extreme it is bad, that obsessive and vigorous competitiveness where everything is measured only by who wins and not by fun (or rather, by a mixture of both parts, winning and having fun, apart from learning ). But no, now everything is measured by that alone. Oh and I almost forgot, in CS, I think it's worse because of the issue of "skins" for "different" weapons and knives with their own "skins", you know what I mean...
@chillshroom_blufinance1505
8 ай бұрын
Had no idea how badly I needed Hbox story time videos. What a goat.
@ASMRbyJIO
8 ай бұрын
Everyone who talked so badly about Lima during smash 4 when he was a kid and calling him carried been real quiet. He’s stuck with Bayonetta and proved he isn’t carried
@theresfoodinthereception.6696
9 ай бұрын
Ay what a coincidence! Was just watching you, i love your videos!
@simonsgamingstuff3161
8 ай бұрын
I just realized something. Bayonetta... BayoMETTA
@ZackRappMusic
9 ай бұрын
10:57 I'm going to start a new band called Bayonetta Meta
@BeanBoi777
9 ай бұрын
I was surprised to see this type of content from you HGod but I really enjoyed the video! 👍
@reckyu7642
8 ай бұрын
Why didn't Metaknight and Fox kill competitive Smash?
@LMD123-u6z
9 ай бұрын
Never played smash 64 played very little melee, brawl and smash 4 1400 hours of ultimate and I can say from experience Steve is by far not the most overpowered in all of smash
@pockylovingranger
9 ай бұрын
I mean given how one of Bayonetta’s best lines in the first game is, “DON’T FUCK WITH A WITCH!”…it’s no surprise that she dethroned that stupid monkey Diddy Kong when she came out, even after she got nerfed xD
@tenacity25
9 ай бұрын
smash 4 had customs, which gave amiibo infinitely more freedom of expression. smash 4 had marth as an actually viable solo-main of a character (not just lucina, and not just as a counterpick against a few top tiers) and falco as a character that, while significantly worse (arguably one of the worst in the game), had a lot more freedom of expression rather than uptilt the character. smash 4 wasn't plagued by characters that are just not fun to fight against due to a plethora of oppressive get-out-of-jail-free cards (the things i truly hate about characters like G&W and Steve is exactly that - i dont mind a lame playstyle, I'll play slow, I'll play lame, that's OK - i actually like fighting good zoners when i understand how to fight against them. But when you just have a free "get off me" tool that requires no brainpower and just removes all of my pressure with no effort (G&W up-b for example)? That's what i hate), characters that aren't very good but have oppressively stupid comeback mechanics and/or out-of-nowhere nuke you at 40-50% abilities (GO meter, incineroar as a character). Yes, many characters could combo you off the top with rage at like 50% or less on some stages, but it was significantly easier to play around and everyone had ways to exploit it (although it is definitely a flaw of the game). Oh, and shields in smash 4 were actually worse than Ult, because grabs were so strong you could counter them easier and there were less broken out-of-shield options, making pressuring someone's shield far more viable outside of "standing there, menacingly" and/or hopping around like a rabbit without throwing out any moves until they do (or MAYBE you get away with a grab every once in a while). Point being? Overall. Until Bayonetta dropped, Smash 4 was just far more enjoyable for me personally than Ult has ever been. Genuinely. And that's despite liking a game that has ledgeguarding and better combos more than something more neutral-focused, i play falco and marth i think that should be obvious (i dont like melee because of L-cancelling, but i respect people who do - it is a great game). Smash 4 was more neutral focused, yes, but smash ultimate has proven to be far more defensive as a game due to the fact that so many good (and even a few bad) characters have very free easy universally-strong out-of-shield options with little to no counterplay outside of baiting them out (which you more often than not can't do if you hit their shield first), the fact that grabs are so much weaker, and many characters have even stronger defensive options when they're not holding shield. Pair these strengths together on a character that can camp and run away the whole game... and, well, you've got the current meta. edit: Oh, also, i was of the opinion that steve shouldn't be banned initially... ...but then some of his tech started being discovered. See, if it was just on-release no-tech steve with the insane combos he had like week 1, he's just a strong top tier and contender for top in the game - not nearly as broken as bayo, who I still say should be banned even at smash con tourneys at this point just to make smash 4 fun again. But steve definitely started crossing a line eventually.
@happymonkeyfish
8 ай бұрын
Wtf Hbox doing the video documentary stuff? This is a new era for sure
@tumultoustortellini
8 ай бұрын
While it can be said that smash ult and 4 are in the same spot chronologically, I think an even stronger point is that they're at the same point meta-wise. What do I mean? Top players are starting to realize that steve actually has no counterplay (at least, no counterplay that is as easy as steve counter-counterplay), just like how people eventually realized that bayo was the best with no real competition. As sonic (maybe gmw, but I'm not too confident) reaches that point as well, I think people will eventually be unable to not reject the null hyphothesis (smash ult top tiers not being overtuned to an unfun and definitely game-worsening state). I think that will be the point when things are forced to move forward. Also, just a question, but is it a fair comparison to compare bayo to only steve, when sonic is also another char people want on the chopping block? Should they be paired together for stats?
@cpvidscenteral
9 ай бұрын
I still maintain base game Diddy was the most busted ass character in the game's history. But luckily he was nerfed rather promptly and multiple times.
@BLamb
9 ай бұрын
1:27 Well, this isn’t the first time ZeRo didn’t get 1st at EVO. He got 3rd at EVO 2016 losing to Mr. E and Kameme.
@BigNation1
9 ай бұрын
Please keep these types of videos coming Hbox. PLEASE.
@celiafrostborn
4 ай бұрын
The hate was deserved imo, she shoulda been banned before it ever got this far though.
@CloudXStrife136
9 ай бұрын
HBox essays, didn’t know I needed them till today
@ryandunn8014
9 ай бұрын
Does anyone remember that Sakurai gave us the ability to nerf and buff characters in game? Not saying we should use it, but we could.
@x9x9x9x9x9
9 ай бұрын
I truly loved this insight. I wont lie, what I expected from this video was hbox reacting to a video on this subject not hbox narrating the story. I hope to see more like this. Blows my mind the community didn't learn their lesson with beyo and steve is still legal almost everywhere. With beyo at least everyone knew a new game was coming soon but with steve there is no new game that we know of. But oh well.
@jonditoro4621
9 ай бұрын
I love these essay type vids!!!
@legacytag
9 ай бұрын
I feel like while Steve is a shoe in for Smash 6, he's gonna get nerfed in a similar way to how Bayo was in Ultimate. I think a big thing is that NILs probably just won't be a thing in Smash 6, intentionally or not I think the tweeking they do to the character is gonna remove them.
@EmperorPenguin1217
9 ай бұрын
I think they might make minecart a hitgrab and cause items to be lost on death
@timmyb.3426
8 ай бұрын
Steve is either getting nerfed hard in Smash 6 or won't be in the game at all. Either of which is something I'm sure a lot of Steve mains are dreading. I mean look what happened with Bayonetta in Ultimate.
@charlesedwinbooks
8 ай бұрын
Honestly always though Lucas was a good counter pick for Bayo. He was short enough to duck under her gun, his pk fire could reach her while staying under her gun. Her approach went low enough for lucas to short hop nair her and stop her / scare her from approaching with guns or the side b.
@GoodGuyGlen
8 ай бұрын
Between AsumSaus doing tech vids, and you doing Meta vids: Life's good.
@TheYugilicious
8 ай бұрын
Next do the competitive history of other party games like Gang Beasts, Twister or Monopoly.
@TylerClibbon
9 ай бұрын
great video, thanks for making it!
@AmericanBrit9834
8 ай бұрын
This video is what I show to people who claim Steve isn't broken and doesn't need to be banned.
@fo2389
9 ай бұрын
Love this knew style of content.
@epicnan1855
7 ай бұрын
i know bayo is hated and i understand why, but growing up with mainly smash 4 and ultimate, i still love that game so much more than any other smash game. the amount of legendary moments, great memories and "aha-moments" (from starting to understand smash / platform fighters) is unrivaled
@christiancastillo-tamayo495
9 ай бұрын
Hungry box Story Videos?? Worth the wait!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉
@quizlaire
8 ай бұрын
Bayonetta is one of my favorite games ever, so I'm happy to see the hate around her has died along with smash 4. Now whenever she appears in ultimate tournaments, it's pretty hype. I love where she's at right now.
@vanilla8956
8 ай бұрын
She is constantly hated. anita sarkesian, polygon's review of bayo 2, and twitter is upset she's not lesbian in 3 lol
@quizlaire
8 ай бұрын
@@vanilla8956 I meant related to smash bros, I could give less of a damn of what anita or twitter think. I just don't want that hateful vibe around her in tournaments anymore.
@vanilla8956
8 ай бұрын
@@quizlaire I get what you mean. I'm just pointing out that she's like my favorite character but I feel like she is seriously cursed because it's always some new dumb drama lmao. I don't do tournaments so I'm more focused on online but if I did like tourneys I would have been pissed to get heckled for my fav getting in lol
@saymehname
9 ай бұрын
Awesome. I love story time. You’re good at telling the history of smash
@lemons-io
9 ай бұрын
You said Bayonetta Meta, but you should've gone with BayoMeta
@RiahGreen
8 ай бұрын
You didn't talk about steve's userate data at all :(
@silent_soul7597
9 ай бұрын
I was like 8 when bayo came out. yet I remember playing bayo on casual online up saying how broken she was
@SealyTheSeal
9 ай бұрын
I was older and it's completely baffling how many people were saying "lol just sdi bro" to everyone who had an issue with her. No other character in the game, including pre-patch Diddy, Sonic, and Cloud, has had the batshit insane kit Bayo did. It's strange in hindsight how so many players had a pocket Cloud but didn't switch to Bayo until the end of the game. There was also "wellllll meta knight was stronger and we didn't ban him" mentality from the community as well. I absolutely believe that if Smash 4 lasted longer, the meta would be Bayo dittos.
@SneeZSmash
9 ай бұрын
Lovin this format!
@thephantomkeith2656
9 ай бұрын
More content like this, please!!
@treyvoncodeine9181
9 ай бұрын
love these vids❤🦸🏽♂️keep it up box
@Plaxil
9 ай бұрын
aw yeah hungrycube video essay
@legendarysoil1064
9 ай бұрын
Editing goes hard.
@OkairMcLaren
9 ай бұрын
Bayo is so boring in ult - its just a mental struggle to play her. She can't even just throw out her moves like other characters can in the game without thinking, why cuz she has lag for doing so. Her moves still be dysfunctional after all the "fixes" and its frustrating especially when you're looking to get a confirm.
@robraf12
9 ай бұрын
You thought this Video is about Bayo but it‘s actually a Steve Ban movement in disguise 😂
@cadelijoren
2 ай бұрын
THIS IS COMPLETELY UNRELATED… but, instead of Nintendo shortening the taunts instead why can’t they just program the games code to make the player interrupt the taunt if they move??
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