I read this poem the first time more than 50 years ago. I've read it again and again over the decades. I have never really understood it until recently. It is a prediction for where we're at now in a world of unintended consequences. All of the things which Kipling suggests as negative consequences of certain behaviors have turned out to be just that in the harsh reality of our times.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
My favorite poem. My favorite work of art. My favorite work of philosophy.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
Kiplings critics were all they accused him of. Projecting their faults onto him, like leftists always do.
@Trowblood
3 жыл бұрын
Kipling nailed it like a boss.
@TitterpigRancher
3 ай бұрын
I absolutely love The Gods of the Copybook Headings, but I had no idea that Kipling held such disdain for Woodrow Wilson. Knowing that makes me respect and like him even more, since Wilson was a Progressive monster.
@Paul-A01
2 жыл бұрын
Im not sure why he talks so much about consequentialism. The poem seems to obviously be about Natural Law theory, the idea that there are built in rules to ethics in the fabric of nature, that we can't ever get away from no matter what our new philosophies or ethical systems or institutions come up with. You cant escape gravity just by collectively deciding you can fly, and you cant escape the rules of the world by deciding you don't have to work or need to defend yourself.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
Or Christianity. The Faith of The West. But Natural Law is just a gimmick some people use to avoid talking about God, or right & wrong. Failing to do right has consequences.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
The reasons his critics were so fanatical is because they recognized their personal failings in his writings. They recognized the folly their beliefs represented.
@ivoryn
2 жыл бұрын
Um de meus poetas favoritos
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
When you do something for someone else, there is greater happiness in the world, theirs & YOURS. And probably others.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
This lecture is getting way off into the weeds. The rules are simple. If you violate them, you & others will suffer. Kipling is talking about moral laws, not interpersonal or organizational rules.
@HarashiKalou
Жыл бұрын
Alternative tite: Boomer dev writes poetry to abolish pull requests (goes... wrong?right?) I do not 100% agree with the view that this poem even suggests to consider using consequentialism. It is titled after the "Gods of the copybook headings", maxims that are so available to us that we make children copy them. "We were living in trees when they met us" these values are almost as old as humanity itself Kipling argues, in my understanding. There is nothing new to invent or even investigate ; the new conclusions, or new moral systems, are those that emerged from the "marketplace" (where people take whet THEY like and leave what they don't). If anything, I think that consequentialism is best applied by reality, which makes no calculation errors when judging whether one given civilization should meet its end. I would count consequentialism as an idol of the marketplace as it wasn't there when "we were living in trees". I would rather "stick to the devil [I] know" than pursue an unknown god. The traditional moral systems may be imperfect but at least they proved themselves as opposed to any new thing that only has promises to offer (until it manages to impose itself by force to either prove itself as an übermensch, which is ironically nothing more than a messianic figure, or make us pay the "Wages of Sin") God knows best
@suntzuangel8534
3 жыл бұрын
Kipling is warning us of the GODS OF THE MARKET PLACE!!!
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
Which is a metaphor for popular culture.
@tehanureaver4299
3 жыл бұрын
Kiplings view is both rule-based and, in a sense, cosmopolitan/perennialist.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
“The gods of The Copybook Headings” are the reason that conservatism is the natural state of man. Kipling had a near perfect insight into the nature of man.
@Penguinedeantarc
2 жыл бұрын
Justice is the product of a civilization. It doesn't 'cause' a civilization. And as soon as civilization is destroyed, so is justice.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
No. Justice exists whether civilization does or not.
@ForbiddenFollyFollower
2 жыл бұрын
Right, but leftists think all civilizations are ultimately just as just.
@tehanureaver4299
3 жыл бұрын
Naive consequentialists are on the first level of Kohlberg's moral development framework.
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha!!! That’s most childish view of all!
@tehanureaver4299
2 жыл бұрын
@@talisikid1618 No, this is pretty much consistent with what the lecturer was saying. However, following the pleasure principle is indeed childish.
@ForbiddenFollyFollower
2 жыл бұрын
@@tehanureaver4299 Are you really more moral if your civilization ultimately falls apart or are you just the same as everybody else except destitute?
@tehanureaver4299
2 жыл бұрын
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower Most civilizations degenerate, fall apart, reborn in a new shape etc. The questions is, what have you done with your time on Earth, have you created something magnificent and lasting ? Were you enjoying yourself ?
@ForbiddenFollyFollower
2 жыл бұрын
@@tehanureaver4299 I ask again, are you more moral if the ultimate result of your morality is terror and slaughter?
@talisikid1618
2 жыл бұрын
Self interest unchained will make us all like the Ik were once purported to be.
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