NEW VIDEO ON 2021 HORSE DOMESTICATION STUDIES: Watch my video based on the latest research now: kzitem.info/news/bejne/xY-tnoKkimOlo6A Thanks for watching. If you enjoy this video you will like my other videos on history and prehistory so check them out here: People of the Bronze Age Playlist: kzitem.info/door/PLUyGT3KDxwC8u4jG_tOjN-8-bsHxucUxn Bronze Age Warfare Playlist: kzitem.info/door/PLUyGT3KDxwC8xD2S2Q1IqH_S_ocWwXWHv Medieval History Playlist: kzitem.info/door/PLUyGT3KDxwC_Jh59Fp5aU5Fzj0oUXUkEJ
@GerryMcGarry
3 жыл бұрын
I would not say it's a niche topic. Horse domestication is one of the fundamental events of human history. You did a great job explaining the two main theories.
@averagewoman6962
3 жыл бұрын
I can think of two reasons for riding a horse either on the hip or at the withers. If you look at an equine skeleton you will see that the vertebrae over the centre back have bony protrusions sticking upwards (called spinous processes) where ligaments and muscles attach. These upward-pointing spikes make riding without a saddle very uncomfortable. However, they get smaller at the base of the neck and over the hips. Another reason could be that earlier horses which had not been selectively bred were quite weak in the middle. Cave paintings depict horses with very straight backs which would not have had the elasticity conferred by the more curved back of the modern horse. Of course, it could also mean that the spinous processes were larger and even more uncomfortable than they are today.
@Seyfudin
3 жыл бұрын
The way I was taught in university was that the early Indo Europeans used chariots as horses at the time were too small to be ridden on and only once horses reached larger sizes due to selective breeding. The first large scale of horse back riding was in Assyria in the iron age. At least that's what they taught us 20+ years back.
@ericneilson1198
3 жыл бұрын
Certainly was a game changer, along with making fire, space flight, atom bomb, and gene sequencing. (Horse domestication)
@kai_plays_khomus
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Dan - I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for your great content, I really appreciate it! The bronze age is the epoch when our modern world started to form, in its best and worst aspects. Sometimes I think that I'm suffering what one could call "epoch dysphoria" - the wish to have lived in another time when the world was "more magical" and everything was meaningful, when a voyage of one hundred kilometers was a (potentially life-threatening) adventure but there were also no borders and you could be in the wilderness for weeks without finding any hint of other humans. But I'm also not naive and aware that it is easy to romanticise these times from our modern perspective, times when families died of starvation because the winter was a little longer than expected, a man of 40 years was considered old and women were considered legitimate loot in warfare. People were more free and less free as we are today at the same time. Strange.
@suzanneterrey4499
3 жыл бұрын
As a rider of dressage, I can readily see where riding a horse bareback without saddle or bridle would be extremely easy given time to adjust the body to relax and give "signals" through the seat bones and legs. I often rode my horse without saddle or bridle and found that by turning my torso, moving my legs back or forward, would cause my horse to turn or stop depending on pressure of my upper thigh or lower leg. Even turning my shoulders would cause change of direction. All is dependent on the rider's relaxation or minute tension, and going with the horses movement. I suspect early man would have wanted to move with the speed of a running horse at some time or another and would have eventually tried to get on the back of a horse just to go fast. I suspect all this happened much earlier than scientists believe as the curiosity of the human is far stronger than most believe.
@valeriewedel2775
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Suzanne, I too ride with legs and balance, and no need at all for bridles and saddles on a well trained horse. :)
@KickAssCowgirl27
3 жыл бұрын
I primarily ride/event/show/etc my horses bareback and bridleless due to my Ehlers Danlos Syndrome causing the slight tension from saddles and reins to dislocate my joints. It's not overwhelmingly difficult/impossible to communicate with your horse without aids; as long as you spend time with it, working on bodily control, and approach it with a "I'm with you as a partner, not here to micromanage you" attitude. It's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that they did the same back then in order to ride horses.
@valeriewedel2775
3 жыл бұрын
@@KickAssCowgirl27 You go, girl!
@geordiejones5618
3 жыл бұрын
The first human to ride a horse must have been a badass. It probably took a long time for this to be a normal practice and even longer to be widespread but it happened everywhere horses are which is most of Eurasia.
@fredericrike5974
3 жыл бұрын
@@KickAssCowgirl27 the American Plains Indians had no experience of horses till the Spanish brought them back in the 14th century- yet the Apache were renowned as the greatest light cavalry. They weren't much for saddles either. Fr
@pelewads
3 жыл бұрын
I think it is a mistake, to assume that the bit is the only way to control a horse. Spanish riding traditional uses what is called a hackamore. A woven strip of rawhide encircles the horses muzzle. Pressure on the muzzle, controls the horse. In modern times, the people of Mongolia ride horses very similar to ancient horses. Very short, and very stocky. The argument that short and stocky horses would not be an advantage, is somewhat ridiculous. Training a wild horse, without the use of a previously trained horse, is nigh impossible. However, if a young foal were captured, after the killing of its mother, it would be quite easy to train that horse. Very much in the same way that wolf puppies we're probably trained, to be domestic companions. I think that modern archaeologists have a tendency to belittle the abilities of ancient peoples. It is important to remember that they were every bit as smart as we are. To say that early peoples were not capable of doing what we do all the time, shows a tremendous amount of hubris. If they were eating horses, they had access to foals. If they had access to foals, then they had access to rideable mounts. Personally, I believe that domestication occurred very early. However, archaeological proof of such domestication would be unlikely to survive. This is why we have not found walrus skin boots, from ancient times. But that's another topic, entirely. Enjoyed the video. Keep it up
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. And I appreciate your insights - you're right, much of what our ancestors did will not show up in the archeology.
@zenolachance1181
3 жыл бұрын
You are 100 percent correct, just like archaeologists claimed that Ancient Man selected the wolves with little fear for humans that followed the camp, no they didn't they took puppies and the puppies had no fear of humans because they are pack animals same thing with horses oh, they killed and ate the adult and raised the foal which had no fear of human
@Alarix246
3 жыл бұрын
You are my kind of man! I read this thinking, I might as well have written it - including the opinion on archaeologists. 👍🏻 however what I meant to comment myself is, I wonder if there aren't any ancient legends on taming the horse. As with the archaeologists (these poor people's careers can be ruined if they dared speculate as we can!), we also underestimate the ancient legends. I started believing in them when I read about the discovery of Celtic burial in the Bull's Rock cave in Moravia. There had been legends (by the word of mouth) about men in white robes and fire and yelling and moaning... when they excavated the cave, the burial was 3.5 thousand years old! So if a legend can survive that long, why not ten thousand? Ok, and the reason why I wonder is that a domestication of horse was done by "the people", but taming of first horse was done (possibly) by one person, and then the whole tribe learned the skill. And such person gets a special place in legends, and possibly even supernatural powers. So I'd be researching the tales of the folks in the likely areas where the horses were tamed. That could give us surprising clues. Just looking at the Epona story is interesting: why is a woman associated with horse godess? Isn't it showing the special relationship we see today (most of the members of any youth horse club are girls)? What if the first horse tamer was girl? Also, how old is the Epona worship? Can we assume that before becoming a deity some three thousand years ago, there could be centuries of more detailed legend that are now lost? Why should we assume that Epona cult started suddenly, without prior history before becoming a cult? Can we not guess the age of the story by researching the variations of Epona and horse names in various indoeuropean languages? We know "equus" (q changed to P in some Celtic languages), we have "pony", in my native Czech we have "kůň", which is obviously from the same origin, the possibilities are many.
@76rjackson
3 жыл бұрын
@@zenolachance1181 and they no doubt put their kids up on the backs of the horses as a game...
@zenolachance1181
3 жыл бұрын
@@peterkratoska3681 I've seen the video on feral dog but that is not wolves 60000 years ago when wolves would have been a serious threat to humans although I have been looking into toxoplasmosis in animals making them less aggressive toxoplasmosis may have led to domestication of many animals. I don't know if anyone is studying this but it is an interesting topic
@philpaine3068
3 жыл бұрын
I think that the role of children in the development of riding has been ignored. If captured ponies were being used as pack animals or to pull travois, it would not be long before they were used to carry small children, in the same way that burros and asses are commonly used. Everywhere in agricultural societies, you see children astride a variety of domesticated animals (my Philipino nephew was riding water buffalo practically from birth). I suspect that this practice familiarized the horse with the human and the human with the horse in such a way that older and older children remained on the horses until they began to direct them autonomously, rather than just being carried as baggage.
@mondopinion3777
3 жыл бұрын
What I think too. I rode our farm cows before my dad finally got me a horse.
@xScooterAZx
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps by accident. A father picking up his tired son on a long journey,and sitting him atop a horse carrying supplies maybe.
@mondopinion3777
3 жыл бұрын
@@xScooterAZxPerhaps so. But why is it hard to imagine tough, bold kids playing with fierce horses ? People today have no clue what free kids are like. My father drove the farm truck (Model A Ford) to town on errands as soon as he could reach the pedals, and hunted with a 4 10 shotgun when he was 9. In many parts of the world it was the role of boys to guard the pasturing herds from large predators.
@xScooterAZx
3 жыл бұрын
@@mondopinion3777 Did I say it was hard? No,I didnt. I simply was thinking of how a child might be tired and his Father picking him up and sitting him on a horse. Why does that bother you? Tough,bold,kids with fierce horses? I know the horses my Dad would buy me at auction were always fierce. Half broken so they were bought in bulk cheaply,..and I didnt have any tack,just a rope around their bottom jaw to ride with. He got me 5 in an auction one time. I had to work those horses every day after school. Oh,and I am old enough to remember living in Hungry Horse Montana and going out on my pony cart to get our Milk cannister,which was about 2 1/2 feet high. and taking it home. I'm quite old,and remember doing manual labour type chores. Chopping wood,and stacking it in the barn,etc. So what's your point about your father riding a bike and hunting. Most people I know from my generation know how to do those things. I had my first rifle when I was 5 years old. My Dad had a Model A,..I have photos of him it it too :}
@mondopinion3777
3 жыл бұрын
@@xScooterAZx We are much alike then. You should understand what my point is. (but I said my dad was driving a truck, not a bike, to town.) These academic theorists make me irritated with their testosterone-driven stress on war in the domestication of horses, and so do the lame comments by sheltered folk who overprotect their kids and cannot conceive what free kids are like. I thought you were one of them. Sorry.
@GhostBusters815
2 жыл бұрын
Love horses and how they played a role in our history. RIP to all the horses that died in battle
@mrkus-nc7od
6 ай бұрын
Big Role ! You can even see it in humans Body structures , Mongolian, and others , short legs long upper body - my ancestors 600 years on horse back 🐎
@ksbrook1430
Жыл бұрын
Hello Dan, There was a very interesting documentary on the invention of trousers done by the Deutsches Archaologisches Institut a couple years ago (uploaded to youtube). They posited that the development was necessitated by horse riding. The artifact that was being analyzed was a pair of the oldest known trousers of 2,500 years ago. They were found in a burial site that also had a whip and bridles. It was found in the Tarim basin in East and Central Asia. Worth watching.
@scythianturk2526
Жыл бұрын
Tarim is in Central Asia.
@SatumainenOlento
Жыл бұрын
Wow! Thank you for sharing!!!
@krift1716
9 ай бұрын
Yep. The Tocharians, evidence of that in Ukraine 6k yrs ago, as well.
@johnshook1682
3 жыл бұрын
I think the “experts” might not have enough experience with horses. Riding without saddle & bit is not an impossibility. Doing so with skill & speed is something I’ve witnessed children do. Certainly, growing up with your foal and learning young creates a friendship between rider & horse. This bond is mutually affectionate. In that circumstance, the rider using legs only to control their horse while using weapons is easy enough. Of course no evidence of that is likely to be found
@SigurdVolsunga
3 жыл бұрын
A friend of mine used to work in a jousting show and had ridden since childhood, he tells me good riders direct more with their knees than their bridles.
@johnshook1682
3 жыл бұрын
@@SigurdVolsunga Exactly
@thebrocialist8300
3 жыл бұрын
@De Alvarado Which Spanish chronicles? I doubt those indigenous dwarves could even mount a horse during most of the Spanish imperial period.
@JavierBonillaC
3 жыл бұрын
@@thebrocialist8300 Man what a disagreeable racist individual you have to be. Sometimes I think people are generally kind and good, and then people like you come along….
@Pandaemoni
3 жыл бұрын
At the same time, though, the modern horse has been bred to be a riding animal. So it is not clear that analogies from modern horses capture all the difficulties of riding early domesticated horses.
@lesleeg9481
3 жыл бұрын
The detail on horse domestication in the Horse, the Wheel and Language was one of the best parts of the book.Domestication of the horse was the central most important basis for spurring the economy of the steppe people, from what I have read in this and other sources. I think it's what makes the steppe cultures so very fascinating. They were such innovators and this one thing changed the course of all of future civilizations. It's vital to the history of human civilization, so you need to devote enough time to sufficiently explore it.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
Theay got Iron first. In X ce. BC.
@Laurencemardon
Жыл бұрын
Greetings from Canada I think I watched this great little documentary a while ago, but this time thru I’m wondering if the debate about how migratory human populations controlled their horse herds during travel phases. Maybe it was just something that didn’t come up, in the sense that the migratory routes were generations old, and the horses were recognized as being the best navigators of any one of a number of variations and detour necessitating events and obstacles? One thing that is fairly unarguable is how much more confident arrogant presumptuous and fallible human beings are nowadays then they were ten thousand years ago. The narrator almost gets to the point of introducing this type of theory by about minute 24 I think….
@Survivethejive
3 жыл бұрын
If Botai horses were not domesticated then we need not assume Przewalski's horses were ever domesticated since they descend from Botai horses. The big DNA paper looking at steppe horse DNA has been in the pipeline since 2018 and still isn't published but when it is out we will know for sure whether modern horse breeds descend from WSH horses and that will be very telling in regards to who domesticated them. As for mounted warfare - i don't believe WSH used horses in battle either. I think they would be perfect for scouting and also as symbols of power to intimidate enemies though.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah there's now no good evidence the Przewalski's ancestors were ridden but some researchers believe there was some domestication - herding or managing and milking. Although other evidence suggests they weren't even doing that. I dunno what Alan Outram reckons as of 2021. But loose management systems are extremely difficult to detect. And for sure - a band of large men coming over the horizon riding horses slowly toward your village would have been absolutely baffling and horrifying. And it's quite possible that only a select few early people were "the riders" in their society. Experts at travelling distances rapidly. Hard to imagine that cultures where raiding was so central to their culture would not have taken advantage of it.
@PotPoet
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory Amino acids preserved in Botai pottery confirm horse milk was used. This is proof of horse domestication for cattle-like purposes (milk and meat). Frozen Scythian remains preserve at least three versions of horse harnessing.
@runedyrting8476
3 жыл бұрын
If you look at the Norwegian fjord horse, there is a lot of likenesses to the Przewalski horses. So much so, that there must have been breeding and domestication. By the way, how do you milk a horse without domesticating it?
@oduffy1939
3 жыл бұрын
@@PotPoet An interesting fact is that humans cannot consume horse milk, due to its high lactose content. However, horse milk's high sugar content means that it will ferment within 24 hours, to create airag or khumis. So, one wonders what was kind of horse milk was in the pottery? Alcohol wouldn't leave a residue, I suppose? Horse milk can be made into yogurt balls - qurt or kurut, a staple of all horse riding nomads. www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-qurt
@masstv9052
3 жыл бұрын
@@oduffy1939 Stupid question. If horse milk is to high lactose to drink, then how does consuming it in other ways also not have high lactose? People I know who are lactose intolerant usually stay away from things like ice cream or other dairy products Wouldn't the lactose remain to high, of it's to high to drink?
@oldman9843
2 жыл бұрын
I didn't know male horses have canine teeth . My gosh , I am 62 yrs old and still learning new things and more interested in learning than ever before in my life .
@debbiekern2841
7 ай бұрын
I've owned horses for 60 years. I can't remember more than a few mares that didn't have them. They are often removed because of the bit hitting them causing pain /infection
@wellnessfromwithin
3 жыл бұрын
I have a horse who was a wild stallion. I ride with no bit and trained him initially without a saddle. My daughter jumps him bareback and bridleless. The bit is meant to be communication tool, not a control mechanism. It informs the head and shoulders while the legs inform the barrel and hind end.
@SigurdVolsunga
3 жыл бұрын
I think a good piece of evidence for the early riding hypothesis is the high value placed on horses by Yamnaya (and descendant peoples) who were mainly eating sheep and cows. They were burying people with horse skulls and hides, had horse head shaped maces, and horse inscribed stones. Also the horse was very important ritually to the indo european peoples, with a common ritual significance shared by peoples whose ancestry split before the late horse riding hypothesis is dated to.
@PeloquinDavid
3 жыл бұрын
I was wondering about that. I can buy that maybe the spread of the Proto-Indo-Europeans was due to the mastery of cart/chariot technology rather than horseback riding, but it really surprised me to hear that there was nothing before the first millennium BC (not even in the Vedas?) that suggested a more intimate/"bums on backs" relationship between Indo-Europeans and the horses that seemed to be pretty important to them judging by the texts and legends that have come down to us and our ability to identify so many horse-related words of Proto-Indo-European by tracing existing cognates of later and even modern Indo-European languages back to common roots...
@ghostriderb.9914
Жыл бұрын
Actually it was the botai culture not the yamnaya and they were speaking uralic language. You can find the article on the pubmed by searching keywords.
@zeff8820
Жыл бұрын
@@ghostriderb.9914 no, it's debunked
@brianboru2762
3 жыл бұрын
Even if they weren't riding them into battle, I could easily see a band using them to get from point a to point b, then dismount to fight. Like Dragoons originally did during the 16th and early 17th centuries. Being able to move quickly on a horse from your camp to a fight had to be valuable in of itself or just lash the loot or supplies to the horse as you move along. Even if a cavalry charge wasn't a thing. I could easily see horses and horse riding being a valuable aspect of warfare during the Indo-European migration.
@saucywench9122
3 жыл бұрын
I'd say that once horses started being domesticated for food that's when the riding began. It's a natural progression of human thought. Human wants to sit on rock, stone or log as opposed to ground. Here's a seemingly docile animal right next to me about hip height, I'll indulge my curiosity or your dare and see what happens if I do this.
@zenolachance1181
3 жыл бұрын
About hip height? I had to climb in a tree to get on my horse bareback... I was only about four foot ten when I was 13
@saucywench9122
3 жыл бұрын
@@zenolachance1181 The horses referred to in this video and that I am referring to are pony sized or not much bigger than. You're speaking of modern horses, this video is not.
@CLASSICALFAN100
3 жыл бұрын
But, in the Orient, did prehistoric people **SIT ON A WOK**?...(ROFL)
@saucywench9122
3 жыл бұрын
@@CLASSICALFAN100 Lmao!
@saucywench9122
3 жыл бұрын
@@CLASSICALFAN100 I can't bring myself to clear this comment, it's just too funny!
@gaslitworldf.melissab2897
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent. I absolutely admire Steppe culture, but I think the later argument has more evidence. With history, one never knows what will come to light at a later date.
@ontheroadwithtex7991
3 жыл бұрын
As a child, I rode horses bareback and used my knees and the horses' manes to transmit commands. I often use a halter instead of a bridle. I have seen people giving commands to horses with their feet while standing up on them and also using clucking sounds. A wild horse can be trained for basic riding in less than a month. Surely modern horses, even wild ones, probably have traits selected over time by humans that makes training easier. I suspect, however, that those traits were always there in some horses. While I doubted it until I saw it, there is the phenomenon of the horse whisperer. I wonder how that could have played into the domestication of horses to allow riding them. There's something special between some people and some horses.
@maggiethedruid9010
3 жыл бұрын
I've never used more than a halter or rope around the horses neck
@ontheroadwithtex7991
3 жыл бұрын
@@maggiethedruid9010 I'll bet you don't wear spurs, either. I haven't used them since I was about 12. Really, with a trained horse spurs aren't necessary, and I wouldn't use them today at any point in a horse's training.
@hellavadeal
3 жыл бұрын
My opinion is if they were raising them, someone would try riding them.
@DakiniDream
3 жыл бұрын
Make sens, considering that this took place over a wide era, thousands of years, so sure, they was used to horse, hunted them for ages, observed and knowed them well. Maybe they became less with time for some reason, then people protected their food ressources against other people and predators. With the time, some foals was raised, and of course, became still tamer, and one day, why not, one hopped on them after lot other trials. ;) - Fall was hard, but would do it again !
@slappy8941
3 жыл бұрын
Probably the first to try were teenage boys playing with horses that were being kept for food. You get some boys around any kind of animal big enough to ride, and they'll try it.
@realpugtail
3 жыл бұрын
more simple, someone placed a child on the back of tamed horse, that started it, or at first they put a basket on the horse while walking to help carry things, and then a basket with a baby and then a kids.. it is simple enough. I have seen 3 year children who have no idea what a horse is get on the back of a big dog.
@davidgould9431
3 жыл бұрын
People raised cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and chickens. "If they were raising them, someone would try riding them" is either wrong or all the attempts were so spectacularly unsuccessful that no-one bothered to try a second time.
@hellavadeal
3 жыл бұрын
@@davidgould9431 People have been riding water buffalos in Indonesia for a long time. My cousin had a cow trained to take a saddled and ride it. People have used oxen for a long time too. I remember it was fun trying to ride the hog.
@noahtylerpritchett2682
3 жыл бұрын
This debunks Arab nationalist who think Horses were first tamed in Arabia (they literally believe that)
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Do they really? Well I guess everyone has their own historical myths.
@KT-ur7pi
3 жыл бұрын
The same with coffee, or CovFeFe as many now call it, to which they also lay claim, but it came from Ethiopia.
@noahtylerpritchett2682
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory yes lol. Arabian folklore states the first horses were tamed by them. I study Arab culture a lot and have a lot of Arab friends. Trust me even non nationalist Arabs think they tamed the first horses
@ChromeMan04
2 жыл бұрын
The only thing they domesticated were camels but even that’s debatable. Camel domestication likely happened in east africa.
@sunithaa.n.5028
6 ай бұрын
@@ChromeMan04Arabia is actually extension of Africa itself.Not a separate entity.
@lizardog
Жыл бұрын
I watch a lot of historical content, and I'd say you're easily one of the best. You have a wonderful voice and your diction is flawless. You make it a pleasure to learn about these ancient societies. My thanks.
@skipinkoreaable
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for a great video and for having the humility to present the various theories in as fair a way as is possible, and without pretending to know things that probably nobody knows for sure.
@kai_plays_khomus
3 жыл бұрын
Most people are not aware how cold resistant horses actually are: the breed of the turkic yakut/Sakha people in north-east siberia can deal with temperatures of -70°C/-94°F, being outdoors all the year - and winter lasts almost 9 month there. The yakut cattle is extremly resistant too - although it is less resilient than the horses and is usually brought to stables during winter occasionally cattle escapes into the wild and survives to the next spring. I'm extremly fascinated by the yakut/Sakha who fled from the mongols to the north and adapted their typical turkic nomadic lifestyle to one of the harshest environments on earth.
@oduffy1939
3 жыл бұрын
Weren't the Yakut primarily a reindeer herding people, who also happened to have horses and other cattle? I understand they also ride reindeer.
@kai_plays_khomus
3 жыл бұрын
@@oduffy1939 Yes, they are also reindeer herders - but so are the mongols. The republic of Sakha (yakutia) is a gigantic territory, the largest subnational region of the world and comparably big as the european union - so it depends where exactly you are. Further north yakutia is characterized by tundra where the reindeer which can live of mosses is the primary lifestock, further south the horse plays are role. The sakha/yakut migrated from regions further south to their lands to escape the mongols in the middle ages and took their horses with them. Their non-turkic neighbors who partly share their territory rely less on horse and cattle and are more specialized on the reindeer.
@Dwg256
2 жыл бұрын
#51.
@heimdallr221
3 жыл бұрын
To this day, in my native dialect of Croatia we still call livestock of all kind "blago" which in literal sense means treasure/wealth. As such, a man blessed with livestock/horses is blessed in wealth indeed. This most of all regards to bovines and horses.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
That's wonderful! And absolutely right.
@heimdallr221
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory I find your videos extremely interesting and wish you all the best in your future works ! I am happy your videos are picking up, they certainly deserve the attention. Bronze Age is criminaly underresearched and lacking its presence in attention of people who are interested in history. But I am happy that in recent few years both archeology and people like you are doing great work to bring up this very interesting age into its deserved spotlight.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
@oduffy1939
3 жыл бұрын
The Anglo-Saxon word "fee" come from the word for cattle. As with most Indo-European pastoral peoples, cattle was the currency. In ancient Ireland, a man could only have a wife if he had the required number of cows, sheep, and horses; and he would pay the bride's family in a set number of cattle.
@alpachino7659
3 жыл бұрын
Wow! Blago means something good in Russian. Blagodarit' - "to thank", where darit' means "to give". So that literally means "to give cattle". I've just learned something new. Thanks 👍 P.s. I can't give you any cattle, though, as I don't own any. 😁😁😁
@newtype0083
3 жыл бұрын
The "chariot first" theory for warfare makes more sense to me. Trying to fight and control a large animal by yourself seems daunting. Having someone else drive leaves you free to shoot and throw. It is also a much shorter leap from wagons to chariots, than wagons to riding.
@implausibleimpossiblehypot4006
3 жыл бұрын
Wooden carts with wheels were most definitely just flopped on a horse and blam “chariot/wagon”
@bc7138
3 жыл бұрын
From what I've read about Sumerian chariots, they were rather slow moving cumbersome four wheeled vehicles drawn by onagers compared to the fast moving two spoke-wheeled Egyptian/Hittite chariots of the late Bronze Age. They were difficult to manuever and could only be made to charge into battle in one direction on flat grounds. The need to turn direction would've being difficult to achieve, while rocky ground would've been dangerous as it could knock the charioteers off their platform, or shatter the chariot's wheels or overturn the vehicle. It would've been intimidating for the mountain tribes that periodically invaded Mesopotamia who'dve been unused to the sight though, and as a result it would've been an effective psychological weapon.
@implausibleimpossiblehypot4006
3 жыл бұрын
@@bc7138 also you have terrifying option of just putting blades on your chariot and lighting it on fire suicide bombing the front lines of your enemy of course I mean that later on in history when horses could run a tad bit faster
@MrBobVick
3 жыл бұрын
A pulling horse takes 3 x the training of a ridden horse. With a wagon/chariot only the bit gives clues of what to do. A good horseman can ride with no bit, just using legs & body movement's to let the horse know what to do. Ever notice that troops pulling cannon always have at least one troop mounted when pulling. Not expert, but have trained a few horses to both ride & pull.
@implausibleimpossiblehypot4006
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrBobVick well then that means they must have had some really well trained horses then huh
@JackMyersPhotography
2 жыл бұрын
Another excellent video! This vid made me think about James Burke’s “Connections” when he talked about how the “stirrup” changed horse mounted warfare drastically. As an innovation it was a turning point that made shock war on horseback even more effective.
@zollyzelem6643
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent analysis & formed - reassured my opinion of early horsemen. Thank you
@DanDavisHistory
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching.
@jenniferbrien3408
3 жыл бұрын
I imagine the early horse-eaters used them somewhat as the Suomi use reindeer. Riding, if it happened at all, would be of minor importance, and I can't see it happening at all until well after mares were first milked. Possibly horses were first used as pack animals, or to pull a travois. The early Irish used to hitch horses to the plough by tying it to their tail. The Mesopotamian horse racing looks remarkably like a donkey derby, and that is still the most popular way to ride a donkey bareback. A proper saddle, even a Roman style one with no stirrups, makes a great difference in speed for either horse or donkey.
@SigurdVolsunga
3 жыл бұрын
No way could a horse pull a plough with its tail, it would just pull the hair out. It takes a large amount of force to pull a plough through the soil.
@gordbolton27
3 жыл бұрын
Fair Blessed Gwenhwyfar, the Irish like to tell the tall tails! The tales are there for amusement!
@jenniferbrien3408
3 жыл бұрын
@@SigurdVolsunga On the contrary. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_against_Plowing_by_the_Tayle,_and_pulling_the_Wooll_off_living_Sheep I read the Estyn Evans essay that it cites many years ago.
@outinthesticks1035
3 жыл бұрын
@@SigurdVolsunga the Spanish in Mexico used the horses tail to rope cattle before they developed a saddle with a horn . Saddles with roping horns are a recent development , about 300 years old . As well the plow you are thinking of is a moldboard plow which is also very recent development , the earlier plows were just a sharp stick with a beam , which could easily be pulled by a horse tail . Some times they were pulled by the farmers wife
@SigurdVolsunga
3 жыл бұрын
@@jenniferbrien3408 it must have been an ard (a point for breaking the ground) rather than a true plough. A horse simply wouldn't be able to actually plough by pulling it with it's tail. There is just way to much force required to pull an actual plough through the ground. An online search on this mainly found Irish sources calling tales of them tieing inplements to horses tails slander, and descriptions of crude harrows tied to horses tails.
@louisedolloff836
3 жыл бұрын
Many of the native peoples here in North America who captured and used the feral horses that escaped from the Spanish, trained and rode them without bits and bridles. They used a leather thong with a loop in the end that was placed in the horse's mouth for steering and control. Other leather straps were braided into the horse's mane for a handhold, and a simple pad and strap were used for a saddle. The person riding the horse invested a lot of time and effort into training it to work with the rider, just like people do today. Different methods, similar results. There's no reason why the ancient steppe people didn't do the same thing. The leathers would leave it no trace being organic, and it was more than likely only some people were of a mind to try the idea out... There's always one guy or gal who says "I wonder what would happen if..." So, I am of the mind that horse taming and riding was early, but the idea didn't exactly spread like wildfire until later
@stsk1061
3 жыл бұрын
That was already accounted for by Anthony. They trained horses using leather and hemp bits; their findings suggest that they too would leave marks on horses' teeth.
@sindarpeacheyeisacommie8688
3 жыл бұрын
That Mesopotamian 'horse' led by a nose ring (19:54) looked more like wolf to me, like some mythic godlike entity riding a giant wolf and leading it by a nose ring after the fashion of bulls being led by nose rings.
@laankebygg3685
Жыл бұрын
To start off with, I love horses. It is hard to remember when I first saw a horse. But I do remember the first time I was close up to a horse. I was maybe 4 years old and to me the horse was so huge. I had to go or shall I say sneak past his stall to go to the toilet each time I needed to go. This was on the farm our family owned in Norway. When I came to Australia at the age of 8 there were several horses in the paddock at the back of our house. These were owned by the commissioner of Police at the time here in Brisbane. I helped the boys from the farm to feed the horses and one of the horses was my favourite. His name was Smokey. I would hop onto his back by grabbing his mane and throwing my leg over his back and holding on for life and limb. He was agisted on a 10 acre, though a long block of land with the other horses and halfway along the block there were some tea trees growing. He would gallop towards the trees with me hanging on, as I said with for dear life. One of the trees had a horizontal branch growing out from it that Smokey was able to fit under whilst galloping at a rather fast speed, though he did slow down a little as he knew I could not fit with me on top of him. So, I always ended up on the ground with him eating grass a foot or so away from my head, probably thinking, 'are you stupid or something boy? We have done this so many times now so you should know what happens'. But I did not care. I would get up and pat and talk to him. Grab him around the neck and swing about off the ground while he still ate grass. But he surprised me one day. I had just filled his container full of chaff and I was standing on his left side as one does when mounting a horse. He was eating and I was stroking him, then suddenly he grabbed me by one of my 9 year old boy boobs and lifted me over the container he was eating from and put me down on his righthand side. He then continued to eat. He had not actually hurt me, nor broken the skin at all, though I did develop a bit of a bruise from his teeth. Even so, I kept stroking him till he was finished so I could put his container, a galvanised baby bath, away. Unfortunately, he ended up with tetanus a couple of years later and had to be destroyed. I have owned my own horses since then and I named one of the Smokey. oooops, that was a rather long story.🙂
@briangarrow448
3 жыл бұрын
Great topic! Always fascinated with how our ancestors lived. I appreciate your use of photos of the covers of the books you referenced. It gives me a subtle motivation to consider buying the books you have used.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, glad you liked it.
@the_petrovich4238
3 жыл бұрын
When we speak about the invention of gunpowder, one of the arguments against its convergent invention in Europe and China is that it appears in European historical record alongside basic firearms. While Mesopotamia might have left first concrete evidence of horses being ridden, wouldn't there then have been a period when horses were used for other purposes there, like gunpowder was used for medicine and later fireworks in China, before it was used for weaponry?
@jackoneill8654
3 жыл бұрын
cogent
@anjou6497
2 жыл бұрын
Terrific, informative video, thanks Dan. 👍🌱🌿
@BenthiccBiomancer
3 жыл бұрын
I think I take something of a middling position in terms of the Yamnaya riding horses into Europe: using horses in warfare =/= fighting your opponents from horseback. I agree with Drews that some random steppe herder on horseback wouldn't be a particularly big combat multiplier for them in a face-to-face fight. But I wouldn't discount the value of mobility when it comes to the type of warfare that would have been happening in the EBA. The Yamnaya probably used horses much as early modern dragoons, ride up to the fight before dismounting to do the fighting. And keep in mind that there would have been little in the way of 'pitched battles' during the centuries long, decentralized movement into Europe. Most 'warfare' would have consisted of endemic skirmishing and cattle rustling. Where that sort of 'dragoon' fighting style would have been a massive combat multiplier, without a single herder having to ever needing swing an axe from horseback.
@teiwo6952
3 жыл бұрын
"Numidian horsemen rode without saddles or bridles, controlling their mounts with a simple rope around their horse's neck and a small riding stick. They had no form of bodily protection except for a round leather shield or a leopard skin, and their main weapon were javelins in addition to a short sword." (Wikipedia) So the technology needed to be effective mounted warriors would certainly have been available to neolithic horse herders. Whether the horses were capable of being used in the style of the numidians is another question and just because something was possible doesn't mean people actually did it, but it seems a lot more likely that early horsemen would have fought primarily with javelins than as shock troops with battleaxes.
@cliffordjensen8725
2 жыл бұрын
It appears that the Numidian Horsemen were superb. The Roman Cavalry could neither chase them off or close with them to engage. They probably had some sort of gear on their mounts to carry javelins and water/wine bottles at the very least.
@teiwo6952
2 жыл бұрын
@@cliffordjensen8725 artwork from the period shows them carrying a bundle of spare javelins in their off hand. A waterskin could have been slung over their shoulder if they needed it.
@RomaInvicta202
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video, thank you for it I'm firmly on the early riding hypothesis: you can ride a horse without nearly anything at all, especially if as other people mentioned you grew up with it Other thing is I grew up on the farm and I tried to ride any animal we ever had (out of curiosity) - and while adults wouldn't probably do it, I'm sure some of Neolithic kids would have a go: you're just curious and adventurous as a kid. How on Earth do you llive among horses for thousands of years and never try to ride one? Ridiculous.....
@nosillalaluna7078
Жыл бұрын
It's hard for me to except horses were not ridden until 6,000 yrs ago . I was obsessed with horses my whole childhood . As a 5yr old walked up to this local boarding place "the corrals" and I'd have a length of cotton rope with me , to use like the Indians , I'd seen in books and TV. I choose a pony or horse, catch it slip this rope into their mouth , put my pre-tied loop around the lower jaw and climb on . The climbing on was tricky , sometimes waiting for them to put their head down , step over behind the ears , they'd lift their head and up I'd go ! Slip down to the withers and turn around ! It felt GREAT every time . I'd climb up a fence pulling the animal close an launch to land where I needed to be . I'd ride around the corral awhile , if all's well then , open the gate and out and about I'd go ! As other comment's mention , I too rode anything that could support me , goats by far were the easiest to practice with . But sheep , were hands down the funnest . Especially in the winter . My friends and I would have the time of our lives having these woolies drag us through the mud , great days . Now I'm missing , more and more , the horsedays of my life . Thinking , I need another in my last chapter of this life . Just feels right to be out in the hills riding , looking for another adventure to experience. ✌️🙈🙊🙉👍
@stanleyshannon4408
3 жыл бұрын
I never had the impression from reading Anthony that he was suggesting the Yamnaya were capable of mounting actual armed cavalry operations. But it isn't hard to imagine that armed warriors, skilled enough in horse control to manage herds, might have also used them for getting to a location for a quick raid and then escaping on them afterwards. People on foot would have difficulty catching up with raiders who could get away on horses even if for a short distance with relative primitive means of controlling the animals. In fact, this would have been such a valuable advantage that it is hard to imagine someone would not have developed the tactic at a relative early date. One might further conjecture that actual cavalry tactics might have developed later as a means of defending against such predation.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
No Anthony specifically argues against armed cavalry invasions, he says that is a feature of the Iron Age but he does talk about mounted raiders.
@stanleyshannon4408
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory It is interesting to speculate if improved horsemanship might have played a role in the Bronze Age collapse. More effective mounted forces would have played havoc on the long trade routes that had developed up to that time. And that could be why the Iron age saw the growing use of horses as a military asset.
@oduffy1939
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory I don't think Mr. Shannon was suggesting large scale cavalry operations; but rather small scale raids, perhaps along the lines of the Táin Bó Cúailnge from Irish myth? Cattle raids are a feature of all nomadic/pastoral peoples, with or without horse (or camel) riding. Ten guys riding bareback without horse bits, arrive to the camp of whomever they're raiding. Get off the horses, steal whatever they're stealing, and get back on the horses to escape. Raiding, for pastoral peoples, is what passed for warfare for thousands of years.
@TigerWoodsLibido
2 жыл бұрын
The Botai taught them and they merged, cementing the Proto Indo European language and their technology conquered the earth.
@stanleyshannon4408
2 жыл бұрын
@@TigerWoodsLibido It would be a thousand years before anyone was conquering anyone from the back of a horse.
@wilsonblair6788
3 жыл бұрын
all bare back short lived and a great deal of fun thats how riding skills where developed
@dangallagher8034
Жыл бұрын
Love your presentations. Thank you for your dedication and fine production.
@JM-nm3bg
10 ай бұрын
I think the ability to ride wagons or even horses TO battle was already a massive advantage, making one group able to quickly invade and settle new lands deep inside others’ territory. This was later complimented by light battle wagons followed by ultra light charriots and eventually by war horses bred for riding into battles.
@tedarcher9120
3 жыл бұрын
Ancient riders probably rode on the back side of the horse because horses spine wasn't adapted to heavy loads in the middle. Even modern horses have a lot of spine problems, even with modern saddles
@myparceltape1169
2 жыл бұрын
Oddly, today I heard a radio report that (among other things) said that the genetics of the modern horse gives them a stronger spine than the horse types which are now extinct.
@hellavadeal
3 жыл бұрын
Riding and fighting from horse back would be different things.
@xScooterAZx
3 жыл бұрын
Well,yes they are. However you need to learn balance for both though. First you need to learn to ride,then to use weapons,then to learn to use them together. Ancient Mongols did both,..on the run.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
@@xScooterAZx While being 5.
@imperatorlightoneous1382
2 жыл бұрын
Just came upon your channel this morning and, im definitely impressed! Fantastic content
@velvetindigonight
Жыл бұрын
Gosh thoroughly enjoyed this. Thank you. Back in the 1970's I used to work for a horse dealer (just north of London!) he would buy unbroken three year olds from local markets like Southall, Stow etc., and within a few weeks having gained their trust I could handle them eg brush, groom, pick out hoofs etc., get them used to traffic on a lead rope and back and bring them on for basic commands walk, trot canter etc., before they were sold on. Trust and kindness was everything and patience. I'd never heard of 'free riding' back then (without bridles and saddles) but there are plenty of vids about it here on KZitem. This again is very much based on trust. I'm guessing this how how people may have ridden initially far more in tune and connected to the natural world including horses than many of us are now? PS The men riding on this vid have appalling seats and are using the bits/ reins for balance. Horses heads are up and open trying to evade the pain. Terrible. Painful to watch.
@ruairimartin4240
3 жыл бұрын
Personally I think that the early steppe peoples would have used horses to move to and from raids rather than fight from horse back, I remember reading that naitive american tribes when they first got the horse did a similar thing before they got the hang of fighting from horse back
@waltonsmith7210
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah their mobility would still convey and advantage even if the warriors dismounted before battle.
@xScooterAZx
3 жыл бұрын
Ancient Mongolians used horses to fight with. They used bows and arows to fight while riding them.They were famous for doing so. As a matter of fact,one of the most famous Horse people were the Scythians.
@oduffy1939
3 жыл бұрын
@@xScooterAZx But that's thousands of years later, from the time horses were domesticated, which I think is the author's point.
@xScooterAZx
3 жыл бұрын
@@oduffy1939 His comment was this,in part:: "Personally I think that the early steppe peoples would have used horses to move to and from raids rather than fight from horse back." The part about the Native Americans is the part that was much later than what I was saying. I was also simply adding to his comment,not attempting to refute it.
@nitukka2b
3 жыл бұрын
Love this!! Very well presented. Will try your other programmes, Thank you.
@britneycee
Ай бұрын
Me and my brothers rode bareback and always were trying some trick or another with our horses from 3 on. When you have a close relationship with your horse you understand each other, you’re bonded, you’re family.
@tommyrea
Жыл бұрын
Apparently, people who are much more experienced equestrians than I have confirmed that bareback horse ridding is not only possible, but common. In that case, it might be that the use of horses as battlefield cavalry was a later development than most people thought, but none the less, I would imagine the ability to ride horses would enable a roving tribe of conquerors a much greater mobility advantage over their enemies, even if the horse was simply a means of transportation between battles and sieges.
@williamthomas2278
3 жыл бұрын
Look for signs of riding in the bones of the riders and any artifacts related to riding. There is a video of the oldest trousers discovered in Kazakhstan and go from there
@havvagokce1441
3 жыл бұрын
Just found a vid about those trousers a few weeks ago! İndeed. Good point. 👍Need to find the published work now. Hopefully.😊
@Cat-tastrophee
3 жыл бұрын
I wondered about that. People who grew up riding and rode for long hours tend to have bowed legs and other anatomical indicators.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
Funy tho sad, that non-academic people are forced to go around and rediscover what was well documented before, bocouse of limited availibility of sources in public domain.
@Winteryears
2 жыл бұрын
I have to put my two bits in. As a kid on the prairies, maybe nine to ten years old, I rode and loved a horse that I rode everywhere with nothing but touch, love, and a halter. My girl would lower her head so I could put my foot in the loop of the halter rope, then raise her head and let me slide down her neck to her back. Don't discount those kind of bonds in prehistory. Notice that modern humans make pets of some of the animals that they raise for slaughter...that is not a thing of civilization but profoundly old.
@GoofyHistorians
2 жыл бұрын
This is so fascinating. I'm in the Late rider camp. We just talked about evolution of the horse in our Mongols series. Thank the Gods that you mentioned the riding on the wrong area of the horse. I said the same in our video but couldn't find the pictures to back it so folks probably thought I was justified being goofy. I am really enjoying your content, I just wish I had found it earlier.
@radiozelaza
3 жыл бұрын
I wonder how it would affect overall the Kurgan hypothesis, if the Kurgans were in fact not those aggressive horse-riders, but rather just fancied horse meat and were really good husbandmen
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah Anthony points out mechanisms that could have resulted in steppe dominance other than waves of pure violence. Some people would like to find multiple massacre sites before they believe it was conquest by systemic violence.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory Well, Horseriders were first to get iron, and whole Celtic was inspired by them. Also, By some sources, Scythians were botch very warior-like and somewhat pacefule, by achemenid standards.
@richern2717
3 жыл бұрын
My guess is that horse riding developed after seeing people ride oxen. We see Rock Art in the Sahara of people riding oxen and some South-African Tribes like the Khoi-Khoi and Xhosa also rode oxen into battle. So I think Neolithic Europeans also used oxen for riding on occasion. Horse Milk residue was found on human teeth from the 3rd Millennium BC. somewhere in the Black Sea Steppe. So again not a massive jump from milking cows to milking horses. Same with pulling carts or a travois. Cattle basically served as blueprint for what can possibly be achieved by using the horse.
@SigurdVolsunga
3 жыл бұрын
Have you got a source for the battle oxen in South Africa? Everything I have seen on warfare in the region records them both as fighting on foot, and riding oxen into battle would have been remarkable, so likely to be recorded and commented on.
@raclark2730
3 жыл бұрын
Angkor Wat has some carvings of what appears to be people riding Rhino's.
@philipgeyer926
3 жыл бұрын
I believe the riding oxen into battle is apocryphal. People have been riding oxen here in Africa for millennia, but what use would an ox be in battle? Ox-back archer? I think Europeans saw people riding oxen like horses and then assumed they used them in other ways horses are used, as in battle.
@richern2717
3 жыл бұрын
@@philipgeyer926Not apocryphal at all. They used oxen in this manor to charge horses of the Vryburgers and with some success were able to injure some horses. Basically used as a shock tactic but not extensively afterwards in battle. Gaan kyk maar na een van die frescoes in die Voortrekker monument.
@richern2717
3 жыл бұрын
@@SigurdVolsunga Voortrekker Monument. I do not have a better source than the Frescoe but I read it in a book many years ago about this so have to go look where I read it.
@neutralfellow9736
3 жыл бұрын
There is also the issue of viewing horse riding in terms of warfare as only fighting from horseback, we know of a plenthora of troops throughout history who did not fight on horseback but travelled on a horse but fought on foot. The mere notion of being able to transport and deploy your soldiers to one place or the other and then have them fight on foot was a massive advantage by itself, and possibly predated fighting directly from horseback by centuries, if not millenias.
@chekovP
Ай бұрын
Excellent video by the way. I grew up around geologists and archeologists. Played in the trenches of archeological site near Fort Ticonderoga at tender age. Rodgers rangers winter fort site. Fossil hunted in Poricy Creek and found 32, 60 million yr old shark teeth and a sawfish tooth. Fascinating discipline. Maybe that's where my insatiable interest in history started.
@equarg
3 жыл бұрын
I used to,work at a stable, mucking out stalls. Had mean, neutral, and sweet stallions. One “mean” expensive stallion was an Egyptian Arab who would bite you at any chance. What’s worse I had to clean the stall with him loose in it. Wearing thick soft rubber boots, one “horse kick” to his chest when he snaked behind me and bit me in the butt. That one kick gave him a much needed attitude adjustment. He behaved in a corner after that. I showed the owner the bite mark and told them what happened. Horse was fine, and while upset I kicked him….they admitted he had been getting nasty and bitey. They saw how when he saw me, he went to a clean corner and just stood there, nose down, being quiet. Plus, he was fine, no bruising or mark on his chest. Not animal abuse when done once, and prevented him from taking a chunk out of my ass. One super sweet smart stud was HB Cool Cat. He was a rare grey Grullio and always a saint when his stall was cleaned. It was so easy, I would scratch his withers as a reward, and he would gently nibble on my back at the same time. I miss that stallion 20 years later, he was a dream stallion for any young girl. Heck, he barely looked at mares in heat, at most a little nicker and a look. He may give other studs “the look” but was never physically aggressive. He knew he was strong, he was confident, and was totally chill about it.
@bradleyeric14
3 жыл бұрын
Before horse-riding, I would guess a thousand years at least of small horses for haulage, perhaps first without and later with, wheels.
@enkhzayazundui1063
Жыл бұрын
My ancestors had bow shaped legs, because of riding horses. A Russian tourist in his memoir touring around Mongolian country side, wrote that how he didn’t understand why windows in traveling shops made in so high, then he understood nomad Mongols shop while still on their horse😊
@duboisdvoleur
Жыл бұрын
I believe that as soon as young men discovered that riding a horse any distance at all impressed young women it would have become a major activity . Virtually as soon as they were herded . Call it the Rodeo hypothesis
@deirdregibbons5609
2 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed this very much. I loved you showed footage of Icelandic horses so much. This is a very old breed that may possibly be related to the equally ancient steppe horse breed used in Mongolia in Genghis Khan's time through the 21st century. Icelandic horses' body type is quite similar to the cave paintings of early equines. Icelandic horses are small but also very powerful and energetic. They also are good natured to people they trust. I could see why our ancesters would admire horses like this. Icelandic horses were used in warfare, but they were equally as important for herding, transportation and carrying loads. They are still considered very special to Iceland's history and culture. On another tangent, Drewe's view that horses don't need bridles and saddles to be ridden has an interesting historical precedent. The Numidian cavalry used in Carthagian and later in Roman military did not use saddles or bridles. They rode bareback and controlled their horses with a rope around the horse's neck and a stick they would use to tell the horse which direction to turn.
@sahinyaman2185
3 жыл бұрын
' Kuş Kanatlı Türk Atli= Bird with wings Turk with horse'... Whether Eastern, Western or Eurasian part of our human ancesstors' had domesticated it, horses are our beloved animal...It is good to trace the roots, but it is even better seeing alll humanity loves this wonderfull animal...
@marcbelisle5685
3 жыл бұрын
Great, thought-provoking video. I think it's possible to reconcile the two theories. Maybe bareback horse riding (that doesn't leave a lot of evidence) developed in the earlier period but was only useful to relatively small numbers of steppe people traveling long distances with herds. Beyond the steppes, owning a horse was a sign of nobility among urban populations that didn't grow up alongside horses on vast plains and didn't have the same level of comfort and intuitive understanding of handling horses. So chariot warfare was both easier to learn and a more recognizable sign of wealth and prestige in more urban populations of antiquity, and also more of an overwhelming combat advantage that only nobility could afford. The later developments of the saddle, and then the stirrup, made horse-riding more practical than charioteering, and thus mounted warriors replaced replaced chariots. Bigger, stronger warhorses were bred and sold in larger numbers further afield.
@juancarlos9592
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Marc
@johantimmer3467
3 жыл бұрын
Horses are, as you say, social animals used to following leaders. So are sheep and cattle and, even more so, dogs. I've always been fascinated by how well today's dogs get along with today's horses, whilst it's an other kettle of fish (or tea if you prefer...) altogether between dogs and donkeys. I've taken daily care of a donkey and my late dog Kate and she very quickly became great chums, but when I got a 6 weeks old pup I had to start the socialising process with the donkey from scratch again. As a biologist, I think thata very important difference between horses and dogs is that the former follow the lead to get to the right places to eat but are, once there, in competition for the best places ("best" both in food availability and in safety from predators), wild canids depend on team work to get their pails filled. WIth dogs you don't need material stimuli (tidbits) to train them, social compensations suffice. With horses, you need material rewards first and can then shift to social ones, which I called "from carrot to cuddle". I'd like to get other people's opinion on this. Be all this how it may, both our latter-day dogs and our latter-day horses are, of course, light years away in behaviour from their wild ancestors.
@caocaohehe
3 жыл бұрын
In Chinese history, there is details of when they learn riding horses from there northern neighbor the Xiong. But thousands of years before that, there were already horses pulling carriage and Chariots.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Chariots were introduced via the steppe cultures too.
@caocaohehe
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory yes, so I believe that human learned to use horses for chariots years before learning to ride
@TheEvertw
2 жыл бұрын
Your video's are always food for thought! Thanks!
@israeltovar3513
2 жыл бұрын
Anthony also argues that fighting from horseback was unlikely, lacking the bow technology of the reflex composite bow. The argument was that they rode to the surroundings of the target, dismount, raid, and then retreat to the horses, remount and ride away...
@Boric78
3 жыл бұрын
Great video. Do you have another channel called "Attractive ladies riding horses"? - or is that just a hobby?
@tamasvarga6673
3 жыл бұрын
The funny thing is that we have some cave paints with spears in hand, I'd bet that this is a far older evidence than in Mesoptamia. Plus the idea that you can herding horses without riding it's symply redicoulus because the horses are born runners not like sheep, goat or cows.
@dbmail545
3 жыл бұрын
Sheep and goats can outrun humans. Don't believe it? Try to catch one. Humans in concert can overcome every animal from wolves to elephants.
@Yarblocosifilitico
3 жыл бұрын
@@dbmail545 still, horses are much less trusty of humans, they run as soon as you're anywhere close to them unless already tamed
@JacarandaMusic
3 жыл бұрын
Well you'd probably be looking at young foals being taken, and kept tied up or corralled in. No need to run after them then.
@tamasvarga6673
3 жыл бұрын
@@JacarandaMusic can be built it's true but the stone age tools would make challenging to make it big enough to keep fed the captured horses if we thinking about long term keeping, not to be killed next week.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
@@tamasvarga6673 Not realy. It would take triple the time, but Pastorals have plenty of time.
@LiamE69
3 жыл бұрын
I think horses would have been ridden to take men to war long before they were used in the battles themselves. The former is far simpler than the latter yet still provides significant military advantage in both mobility of forces and a relative lack of fatigue from travel. In raiding it adds the ability to take more booty after the fighting is done.
@somniumisdreaming
3 жыл бұрын
Many Anglo Saxons in Britain seemed to take the horses to battle, dismount and then fight. Great observation.
@kaisersozay99
Жыл бұрын
Loved this info man. Nice job. Good clear explaining.
@sarahcoleman8560
3 жыл бұрын
thankyou for this video. as a horse woman (dedicated) this was very welcome information
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
That's good to know, thank you.
@jacobshell8612
3 жыл бұрын
Ukraine or the Sredny Stog cultural area in ancient times was probably swampy in addition to being steppe-like. Unlike the central and eastern steppes, the western steppes had many rivers traversing it, and the remnants of a major swamp region still exists along the Ukraine-Belarus border; likely this swamp was much bigger in ancient times. Is it possible that a swampy environment triggered horse domestication somehow? You might be a bit more willing to climb onto a horse for the first time if it was wading in the water, so falling off happens with a splash rather than a thud. And for certain river corridors, fording with horses would be the ideal way of getting across, more so than with boats.
@irenadmytryk1551
3 жыл бұрын
That makes sense.
@peterroberts7684
3 жыл бұрын
The Ancient Hunnic tribes,the ancestors of the Hungarian people,were said to be the greatest horsemen,and it is said the Greek myth of the Centaur,derives from the ancient Greeks witnessing the Hunnic warriors skill as riders,and that the warrior and horse moved as one,it could mean Chiron the Centaur,that taught Achilles the ways of war,might of been real person,perhaps a Hunnic warrior???...In myth there always lies a scintilla of Truth...Excellent channel,makes you think..👍👍👍
@amazingamazigh6847
2 жыл бұрын
The Huns are not the direct ancestors of the Hungarians. Modern Hungarians have more Slavic blood in them nowadays!
@aramisone7198
2 жыл бұрын
Well its hard to say who were the best horsemen because many nomadic tribes were horse experts .
@crackin2000
2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you leave room for theory.
@michaelbryant2071
Жыл бұрын
All the experts have one thing in common. Opinions, opinions that cannot be proven right or wrong. If incontrovertible evidence comes forward, it will still be questioned by experts. You sir are an amazing story teller. I am happy you have found your purpose. Insurance sux. I was agent for 20 years and hated it.
@bakters
3 жыл бұрын
"Chariots first" idea assumes that the wheel preceded horse riding. I'm not sure about that. Having a herd of pack animals, who can pull primitive sleds seems like a major improvement to mobility. Suddenly you don't need to carry all your belongings on your own back. 1. Taming and herding first. 2. Domestication. 3. Utilization as pack and draft animals. 4. The wheel, once it's absolutely obvious, because you do have a bunch of draft animals already. Where horse-riding comes into this picture? I don't know, really.
@thebrocialist8300
3 жыл бұрын
That’s counterintuitive. Without domesticated livestock, there was more selective pressure for humans to be innovative. Why do think the cultures belonging to [the relatively petite] Neolithic West Eurasians were so much more sophisticated (e.g. stratified, urban, and agricultural) than those belonging to the [physically larger, more robust, and better adapted] Western Hunter-Gatherers that preceded them? For the same fundamental reasons that caused Cro-Magnon man to be intellectually and technologically superior to Homo neanderthalensis.
@tedarcher9120
3 жыл бұрын
@@thebrocialist8300 west eurasians needed to band together to support their irrigation systems, eurasian herders did not need any of that, so they had much lower population density and hence less inovation
@bakters
3 жыл бұрын
@@thebrocialist8300 Both early agrarians and early pastoralists went through a period of misery during their transition to a new lifestyle. The agrarians had very poor diet. Mostly grains, very little meat (no domesticated animals), most of vegetables were not domesticated, etc. They suffered accordingly. Similarly, pastoralists went through similar hardship when they started to rely on milk in large quantities. Lactose intolerance is still the norm among humans, so it definitely was for them too. Those who couldn't digest milk well, simply suffered. Apparently, it can be seen in their remains. Which lifestyle has more favorable selection toward innovation? It's probably settled lifestyle, simply because it allows for amassing wealth. Excess food production creates niches, which allow for new inventions that fit those new environments, but I'm not sure that the selection pressures are easy to distinguish. Plenty of important innovations came from the steppes. Definitely domestication of many animals, quite possibly the wheel, lots of cultural traditions (Zoroastrianism, Vedic religions), composite bow, probably more. Settled lifestyle allows for specialization, nomadic lifestyle encourages trade and exchange of ideas. Which one was more selective toward innovation? I simply can't tell. Eventually the issue totally disappeared, as pastoralism became a part of settled agriculture. Ever since it happened, it's a moot point.
@haroldcarpenter4702
3 жыл бұрын
My understanding is that men started to wear pants when they started riding horses. Pants give move protection and padding to the rider. Maybe you should start with who started wearing pants and when. Just a thought.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Yes great idea.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
Well, Otzi, the ice mumy from Alps did wear proto-pants.
@equarg
3 жыл бұрын
Well, Romans rode horses….and only toward the end of their empire did they wear pants. They viewed pants as…….barbaric.
@charlieswearingen500
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting subject. I have ridden horses all my life and earned my living on horseback. Based on my experience I'm inclined to think horses were used mainly for transportation and mobility rather than the actual battle. Beyond creating chaos during a cavalry charge shooting firearms or arrows from horseback on a very excited galloping horse can not be very accurate or effective as a whole. I know because as a young hotheaded male I have shot at wild game from the saddle with both pistol and rifle. I was successful at times but it was not very effective and there are better ways to use a firearm than from horseback. Just the horse's breathing alone is enough to throw off your marksmanship. I believe it was more customary to use horses for speed and mobility to quickly gain advantageous positions with the use of horses or to get down off their mounts for both setting up defensive or assault positions. About the only weaponry, I see useful in a cavalry charge would be lances and sabers and so I believe the predominant military use of horses was for the transport of equipment supplies and mobility rather than battle. Custer dismounted his troops during his last stand battle in an effort to enhance their effectiveness. They even destroyed their mounts and used them for defensive breastworks...
@amaliapursell
3 жыл бұрын
Just a brief side note, I was mostly trained in art history and one flaw I often see in general historical and paleontological/archaeological research is that condensing everything down to how it can be used in warfare/hunting is not the whole story of humanity. I am heartened to see this kind of idea presented in such an elegant way to the public. Not everything is governed by the technology of violence and surely this is true in our ancestors going much farther back than the history of writing. Not that warfare has zero affect or that it shouldn't be covered, but consideration of what a person is doing when they aren't killing something is also important.
@fartz3808
3 жыл бұрын
It might be a bit of contemporary projection, because so much of our current daily-use technology (microwaves, cellphones, cars) were originally designed for military purposes but only later redeveloped for civilian use. However this might not necessarily have been the case in horses or ancient history.
@garryclelland4481
2 жыл бұрын
thanks Dan , reaLLY ENJOYED THAT . LIKED & SUBBED
@AdSd100
3 жыл бұрын
Great video and interesting hypothesis. Surely if horse back riding was invented as a method of warfare we would have seen more solid evidence of it before 1st century BC. However, I wonder how the late hypothesis can explain horse bone remains at Tollense River battle site? As far as I know there is no evidence of chariots being present there.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
This is a great point. The position and type of skull injuries at Tollense has led some to believe they were downward delivered by attackers on horseback.
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
@@DanDavisHistory We have evidance of mounted combat from before 1000 BC tho. Kimmerians, are well recognised as such. Furthermore, theay were the first people that produced Iron tools and weapons, while living in the area where corded culture was before. Also, a certain type of blunt weapons can be asociated witch mounted combat, that is recognised well before said culture and continued thru scythians and later symilar fellows. Also, fun fact. Big part of oeople that fought at Tollense were recognised as geneticlly closest to moderm poles.
@nneisler
3 жыл бұрын
Walk around the steppes for a few weeks and you'll figure out how soon people started riding horses after domestication...
@raraavis7782
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, as someone who likes to go on long hikes...I wholeheartedly agree. There is no way, nomadic people didn't jump at the chance of having an animal carry their luggage and, if possible, themselves. Imagine how useful ridden scouts or hunters would have been, even if most of the tribe would still have been on foot.
@casteretpollux
2 жыл бұрын
A day out for boys - young teen - in my home town was to catch some wild ponies on the hills and ride them down the beach, no saddle or bridle. Love this video for its thorough and consciencious approach. Too much obsession with war - sport is far more common in human life.
@Nala15-Artist
Жыл бұрын
Unless you view sport as preparation for war ...
@daelynnicholls9338
3 жыл бұрын
Dan, that is just plain brilliant. As other have said far from a niche subject. As a social anthropologist particularly interested in the transition from hunter gatherer to social group farming - from female to male lead family role- this subject is vital. Logical sequence is Hunting / Herding / Husbanding (change in lead family role and social standing - ownership) /Transport / Warfare. One aspect I have not seen formally is the use of body fluids. Milk is an obvious but not an early diet food but probably via small stock that can tolerate it. Blood the more obvious as is still drawn in places. And glandular shamantic. Oooh - and vital fertiliser and fuel. Some incredible footage there and your graphics? Superb.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I appreciate it.
@BrotherHoodofTheDogxix
2 жыл бұрын
I love the idea of the early riders, and find the short, stocky horse extremely pleasant, almost like a memory of what was, but the evidence is not there. Great vid btw.
@fanman8102
3 жыл бұрын
I believe what we think we know about ancient culture is just a swag, a Scientific Wild Ass Guess. It seems like every other month evidence is being turned up that blows everything we thought we knew out of the water. To make the claim that early people couldn’t have ridden horses seems fairly arrogant to me. Better to say it isn’t probable but it is possible, IMO.
@andrewmckeown6786
3 жыл бұрын
Truth! Soooo much of what is considered -Foundational Truth- in so many disciplines, is unsophisticated supposition, albeit made by intelligent people, some hundreds of years ago, who themselves often put forth the theories with cautions or caveats.
@phdtobe
3 жыл бұрын
Given the lack of any recovered works of art during the Yamnaya culture period showing a person riding a horse, I am inclined to believe Robert Drews that horse riding as a means of mobility and use in warfare was developed after the in invention and spread of the chariot. Why? Because if riding a horse gave someone so much power of others, it would be highly likely that people would craft totems resembling a person riding a horse as a symbol of a powerful protector, perhaps to pray to or aspire to emulate, or for children to play with before they are old enough to ride.
@KerboDrive
3 жыл бұрын
this
@jozefkozon4520
3 жыл бұрын
Would you gave youre children a statue on Natzi? I dont think so. And for Agricultural people mounted raiders would not be much butter. Hovever, in regartds to Hallstad Culture (early celtic people) by trade, their elite acquired wast welth, while coping Kimmerian, and later scytchian cultural patterns.
@adreabrooks11
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent work! Highly informative and concisely presented. For the record, I'd be fascinated to watch athat "History of the Chariot" video you mentioned in passing. :)
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Yes we will have to do that for sure.
@safeysmith6720
2 жыл бұрын
24:53 - I’m so glad you made that point because I was thinking the same thing! I hope some of these authors you mentioned considered that too! That last author seemed to be stuck on the idea of how threatening horse riders were supposed to be(?) when I’m pretty sure the first point of riding them, was for the mobility.
@_robustus_
3 жыл бұрын
You don’t go from raising food animals and then all of a sudden jump on their backs and start fighting like Scythians. It takes a lot of innovation and honing the art of fighting on horseback. Also even if you could effectively raise horses for food and move them as nomads do without riding some of them, focusing on them to the extent that they did over more productive breeders like cattle, sheep and goats makes very little sense. As hoofed animals go, horses and asses do not breed as quickly as animals with cloven hooves and the ability to ruminate (more efficient digestive system that gives more nutrition from food). This is the very reason why there are far fewer species of equines in the wild as there are artiodactyls (hoofed animals with an even number of toes on each foot). Focusing on horse breeding had to give a benefit other than just food. You can do more with a mount than any ox strapped to a cart, like intensive herding and mounted hunting/fighting/escaping the folks that you’re raiding.
@deeptrout9241
3 жыл бұрын
The native Americans did.
@jtrealfunny
Жыл бұрын
Where I live kids (and grownups) will often ride bareback or with just a blanket. A bridle is more common than a bit. People ride without bit or bridle, just a single rope tied to the horses neck. Mares are tame animals. How could people not have started riding horses as soon as they started domesticating them.
@almord9357
Жыл бұрын
Well researched and presented! Very interesting stuff, with opposing viewpoints given a full airing. A very well produced vid in all! Congrats! A lot of Food for Thought here. One suggestion: when showing maps of Eurasia with names and movements superimposed, please provide a time reference on the slide. That would make it easier to put the information into context. It's amazing to me that, in North America, the indigenous people realized immediately when Spanish horses escaped captivity that horses could be ridden, no doubt from observing the Spaniards. What surprises me most, though, is how quickly the indigenous people adapted with the new animals, and very soon mastered them for a whole bunch of uses, especially in helping them hunt the huge buffalo which dominated the prairies. It only took a couple of hundred years for this to become established all over the continent. Prior to animal and especially horse domestication arriving, peoples around the world had no options for transportation and hauling than their own feet and making other humans haul them around, or using things like donkeys or aurochs for pack and hauling stuff. Also, significant trends in history often happen in fits and starts, so it's not all that surprising that obviously useful changes like horse riding will suddenly appear and spread like wildfire in a fairly short span of time. Who wouldn't want to learn about how to ride, use, nurture and craft the new ways of using horses and other domesticated animals which they had seen or heard about? This "propagation phase" probably contained a lot of fascinating human stories which we'll never know.
@tyramasters-heinrichs921
Жыл бұрын
For years I rode without a bit, only a bosal (a firm nose loop that when you pull on, pulls the head down and cuts off air if you keep pulling), I rarely pulled on the bosal as my horse responded to 'neck' reining (he was a stallion, old stock Appaloosa) and body posotion. When I first started riding it was bareback with a halter, then I used a snaffle, then switched to the bosal as it gave good control...as for saddles, most of my friends and I rode bareback, or with a bareback saddle (a pad with stirrups), or Western. The thing is, I broke/trained more then ten horses to neck rein with a soft snaffle bit or no bit and never had control issues...I don't think 'bits' were part of horse tack until quite a bit late to the game and more for those who are afraid of horses or who didn't grow up on them. As for Przewalski's horse, I'm really confused, the horse was bred 'back' to the ancient traits, I had books and articles on the breeding program, so of course there is modern DNA. How can that knowledge just have vanished? My friend still has a book talking about the breeding programs to create Przewalska's Horse...and now that work is forgotten? What's next, the confusion over how modern Chickens appeared? How laying hens magically lay more eggs then Wild Jungle fowl? How about wool production in sheep -- hint, wool production does NOT occur in wild sheep like in tame wool sheep (they shed, never produce the amount that sheep bred for wool production does, and the strands are never as long). We are losing too much information... I get that 'facts are bad' is the modern belief, but really, I recently heard a woman complaining because her doctor argued with her that there is no cure for stomach ulcers and no one knows what causes them -- here in CANADA! In a modern Western city hospital! ...she had to show him on her phone, explain about the bacteria, AND demand an antibiotic, which she had to name... (I get he is most likely a ghoul (someone who makes a living of the suffering and death of others -- more suffering, more drugs) and the drugs he wanted her to take she'd have to take for life -- according to him -- and he'd make money every time she refilled her prescription... I find this loss of basic knowledge scary...
@DogWalkerBill
2 жыл бұрын
ALSO: I am in a Bible study group. We read the entire NRSV Bible in a year. One of the things that impressed me was that King Saul rode to battle on a donkey! According to Wikipedia, his reign is usually placed in the 11th Century BCE. Horses, at least riding horses, did not reach Israel, and get mentioned in the Bible, until later. But the idea of riding a four-legged, "horse-like" creature was around by the 11th Century BCE.
@oneman7638
6 ай бұрын
Growing up in Romania’s country side we had kids riding on the backs of horses without any kind of saddle or equipment. They would also ride them very very fast
@rhoddryice5412
3 жыл бұрын
I can’t think of a single ancient god depicted riding a horse. (Odin got Sleipner, but Odin is a rather late deity) Helios and Eos rides in chariots. Since man creates gods in his image why wouldn’t you give the gods horses?
@averagewoman6962
3 жыл бұрын
Rhoddry: there are dozens of depictions of Greek Gods riding horses - mostly females riding aside (which is impossible without a saddle but the concept is obviously there), also I have seen several pix of Greek mounted warriors and even more depicting Amazons on horseback. These would be all from the classical period, starting around 700bc
@rhoddryice5412
3 жыл бұрын
@@averagewoman6962 All I can think of is Perseus on Pegasus and Centaurs, but I’m no expert. And Hephaistos on a donkey.
@averagewoman6962
3 жыл бұрын
You can check out Thetis on a Hippocamp, or Apollo on Pegasus (that's usually coins).
@yomomz3921
3 жыл бұрын
It could be a status thing. Maybe poor people rode into battle, while richer people were chauffeured? As deities, it might've been beneath their status.
@jandrews6254
3 жыл бұрын
@@averagewoman6962 are you saying riding astride is impossible without a saddle? That is obviously incorrect, while riding in the unnatural side saddle style is definitely impossible without using a side saddle
@ericneilson1198
3 жыл бұрын
My favorite breed is Appaloosa, which are excellent mountain horses. I understand they were bred by Nez Perce tribes? They are known for their extreme endurance. Was my first horse at 10. "Crow a Little" was his name.
@DanDavisHistory
3 жыл бұрын
Very cool, a world famous breed, even an iconic breed.
@johnmackinnon1026
3 жыл бұрын
Loved this video, thanks for posting it.
@TheRobberBarron
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with Robert Drews. Chariots and wagons 1st. In early written history chariots pulled by horses are in every battle, but no mention of cavalry. Can't disregard horses used for scouting or light (and fast) uses, like sending messages fast and over long distances. Lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean evidence of absence. Native Americans rode bareback. Perhaps horse DNA mapping can illuminate when human sorting behavior began. Great topic! Phenomenal work! 👍🏻
@TracyD2
7 ай бұрын
I’m always fascinated by the Paleolithic cave paintings.
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