I have the OG, the Bellman Rhino, and the VMP box set versions. I think I'm good without the new Rhino, and am super grateful for the comparison. Keep up the great work, Scott!
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Dan, I'd say so! I would have loved to have the OG on hand for this but it's not always possible. As it was, the MFSL and the Bellman were borrowed for this. Of the copies you have, does one stand out to you as preferable? Thank you for watching and commenting. I'm glad you found this video of value.
@dank.6942
4 ай бұрын
I like them all, and they're all very close sonically. As with most, my OG has that freshness and immediacy...but also no shortage of surface noise. I default to the Rhino Chris Bellman cut nearly always, because it is quieter than my OG and I don't have to open a box set to grab it...and it sounds really great overall, full range. The VMP version is really good, analogue and slightly sweet, with good bass and also quite detailed without any brightness, but I must admit my exposure to it is minimal. None are fatiguing to me. Cheers! 🍻👍✌️🎸🎧🎶
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
@dank.6942 I also like the Bellman cut. A nice balance overall. I wonder if tape issues are in play here? The MFSL was cut nearly 45 years before the Rhino High Fidelity, and the tape is almost 10 years older than that! Something to think about.
@dank.6942
4 ай бұрын
Good question. That is really a "good news/bad news" kind of thing. The Dead are great for allowing the tapes to be used, more bands should, but the risk of degradation comes with it. A super-clean OG would win out, but the Bellman Rhino, The VMP box set version, MoFi, and also, the AAA 50th are all legit alternatives. Great videos! 👍🍻 Cheers!
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
@@dank.6942 Ives always been a fan of the original Warner releases in general. They have a very natural quality in the was the acoustic instruments come across. I wish I had an OG for American Beauty because it could actually be more to my taste than any of the others here. I felt the MFSL sounded the freshest and most engaging of all these. Apparently the 45 is considered a good one too. Ironic that I picked the Rhino for my sole copy. You can bet that is going to change because I really do love this album.
@sbarncar
Ай бұрын
You are talking about my 10k +2db shelving UA board eq on all vocals and guitars. And the Mandolin, too. My original mastering guy at Artisan in 1972, Bob MacLeod, did not have to do any 'correction' at all. Jerry Garcia himself attended the mastering, the first time anyone had ever asked him. I repeated the trip a few months later with David Crosby when we mastered "If I Could Only Remember My Name". The first pressings were magnificent. I hope the new MoFi versions are actually AAA and not ADD. I would really like to see a version from a very high bit rate (192-24) digital source that has been through the Plangent process.
@ThePressingMatters
Ай бұрын
Hi Stephen, Thank you for giving us more information on this session. That explains some of what I heard among these, yet this Rhino sounds different than either of the other two with some added emphasis it didn't seem to need. With many modern reissues analog or not, original cuts sound more natural, and I think in this case you and your team at Warner created the most musical presentation. I'll revisit this Rhino on a new front end to see if I feel differently. Thank you so much for giving us some details on this wonderful recording.
@sbarncar
Ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMatters I am not RHINO. I am the original mixer and producer of American beauty.
@ThePressingMatters
Ай бұрын
@sbarncar Yes, I understood that Stephen. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. The reason I mentioned the Rhino is because it was the reissue that prompted this video. In this, and other videos on this Rhino series, I've expressed concern about the eq being used on them, not the original recording or Artisan mastering. I'm curious if you could say if you feel the Rhino is true to the master tape, close to the Artisan or something else entirely.
@cave70
4 ай бұрын
Hi Scott. I totally agree with your review. As a long time Deadhead, I know this album incredibly well. I've had a few copies over the years. Once I saw that this was AAA on the Mofi site, I knew I had to get it. It is sublime. My Mom and I listened to this album countless times. As a matter of fact, she requested that Ripple be played at her gravesite after her wake. Family and friends were there, and I had a Bluetooth speaker, and before playing it said "This one's for you Mom. Some of my family knew the song. Some others hadn't heard it asked what the song was, as it was so beautiful. This album is in my Top 5 albums ever. I'm going to play it tomorrow. Take care, Johnny K.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Johnny, Excellent to hear from a real Deadhead! I can't claim to be one, but your comments on the MOFI ring absolutely true with me. I think you are referring to the 45? I have not heard that, but it has always been considered to be great. Judging your response, I know you would not be a fan of what Rhino did here. It's really baffling to me that they would choose to present this masterpiece in this way. I may be in the minority, but I think more people are going to realize that their shiny new Rhino may lose its initial luster over time.
@toddbromgard5211
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for your review. The MoFi 45 rpm is worthy of consideration too.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Todd, I've heard nothing but great things about the MOFI 45. Unfortunately I didn't have access to it for this one, but I'm sure I'd prefer it to the Rhino High Fidelity.
@FleagleSangria
4 ай бұрын
Hi Scott, thanks for the review and your efforts as always! Couple of thoughts that may or may not lol be insightful: While everyones equipment is different there are like sound quality parameters that we can describe and all be on board with to help reason these comparisons out. And within each persons system the comparisons then become relative to within each persons system. In other words, when describing like sound quality parameters there will still be differences between various versions of said album. That doesnt change system to system if we are able to nail what sound quality descriptions we are describing. This places the emphasis upon being on the same page as to what we are each describing even if we inevitably choose differing versions due to what we subjectively like. This is never a perfect scenario of course but it can help the blurred lines of comparisons form some. Just a thought. Secondly, I would say that I wonder if the reason why this series or any series for that matter are so different is due to a simple reason: Different sells. That is, we associate different with better therefore we have to have it or we might be missing out. But different is not always best or even better. This tends to take things just so far before changes turn into a bit of a sound caricature with the detailed high end sound. I have been singing the praises of the old MFSL American Beauty for years. It hits the middle balance between all aspects very well. I also think the tape was fresher then. Could it be that KG has to top end things more in order to compensate for tape wear? Cant say definitively this to be the case. Just a thought. I do believe what is fatiguing our ears with the Rhino is most likely attributible to the top end. Gaining more detail comes with a cost many times. Everything upfront and coming at one is one think but combine that with accentuated top end to help achieve this and you have a not so good combination of factors. I do wonder if throwing a tube pre amp into the mix would alleviate the issue a bit? Thanks again for the video!
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for this insightful comment! The points you raise have crossed my mind when struggling to describe this characteristic I hear in the Rhino series, but I didn't want to speculate in the video. Yet I think you nailed it. Perhaps due to some loss of high frequencies, adjustments to boost it were made, and to many of us it just doesn't work. It's unpleasant to hear those layered vocals with such an edge. I much prefer the original MFSL in that this is not an issue at all. After all we're talking about a mastering that was done 45 years earlier. Add to that Stan Ricker's expertise, and I think I heard this recording as best it can be presented. Natural tonality without accentuation that brings out the best in this fine recording. Great post, thanks so much for taking the time to get your thoughts together on this and share them here for all of us.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
There have been files added to the description box for one track, Sugar Magnolia. Please download them to play over your own system to hear what you prefer. Thanks
@jeffbrown-hill7739
4 ай бұрын
Just listened to the hi-res clips. All three sound oddly thin and bright in the treble. On first listen, it seemed like the MFSL was the thinnest sounding of all. This was in the car, but even the Let There Be Sound shootout with "Friend of the Devil" that I also listened to in the car didn't sound that bright. Weird.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Jeff, Thanks for taking a listen. There is bound to be some losses and alterations of the signal with this method. Also, my personal listening impressions were done on my system, while the files were made by Oz on his system. In the future, I hope make my own, as that hopefully will be more accurate to what I hear. That being said, the vocals on this record (all copies I heard) were oddly accentuated. I think that might be the way it was recorded. On my system at least, the MFSL was more natural, if a tiny bit recessed compared to the Rhino which seemed to bring them out and while they had more presence, they also had a slight edge that wasn't as attractive. Truly you never know until you hear side by side, what will be your preference. It seems many love the Rhino, with some preferring the later 2x45 MOFI. Crazy hobby isn't it!!?
@LifelongMusicJunkie
4 ай бұрын
Hi Scott, I have the Rhino High Fidelity and also the Mofi SACD as the only two copies of this album. I do prefer the Mofi and would choose that over the Rhino. I have not turned the Rhino of this album up loud yet, but I did with their Candy-O and that would get old very quickly at higher volumes. I can imagine that American Beauty would also give me some fatigue. Since your comments about sitting back and relaxing, earlier today I listened to some Mofi's, (H2O and Double Vision) and I must say, at an elevated volume, these two titles were a pleasure to listen to, nice bass and the right amount of clarity not to cause the ears to bleed. Mofi gets a bad rap because of their deceit but they still can sound enjoyable. I think I may be done with this High Fidelity series, once Tutu arrives that is 😀 Cheers
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
I'm going to very cautious about the Rhino series too. Of course I'll try and access what I can to report on it but for my personal collection I've found preferable sounding editions for the last three. All suffer from the same detail emphasis. Candy O can't really be turned up without it sounding hard and glassy. Captain and Me as well. To enjoy these at all I have to change the correct loading and 'dumb it down" to take the edge off and as a result everything suffers and it still isn't pleasant.
@AudiophiliaChannel
4 ай бұрын
Wonderful video, Scott. Honest and heartfelt. Agree completely re the praise of the RHF VM and also about the negatives about the Doobie Brothers. And me, too, a big Kevin Gray fan. But even Beethoven had his off days. Thx for the hard work.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much Anthony. The Van Morrison seemed to have escaped this sound signature. I really struggled with this video and it sat in the can for a week. I listened again and again, now on much better speakers, and made sure by going back to reference records that I know extremely well. When I could not come to any other conclusion, I decided to release it. Sometimes we are a voice in the wilderness, which you, as a reviewer know. Thank you for taking the time to comment.
@davidpetersen7091
4 ай бұрын
Scott, Another great comparison review. I guess one needs all three! Mr. Pete-------> aging hippie
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Well, I am not so sure Mr Pete! I guess super fans will want a couple of choices, but for me, one will do and if I had to go back I'd choose the MFSL. I bought the Rhino High Fidelity and borrowed the other copies.
@jimdalto6254
4 ай бұрын
Excellent video. I also enjoy the MFSL 45rpm American Beauty. Have you listened to the MFSL Blues For Allah? I just picked that one up and the output level seems to be on the low side.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Jim! No I don't have Blues For Allah, so I can't comment on that. Sometimes these are cut lower than other records. The Mobile Fidelity American Beauty was actually the 33rpm from 1979, not the later 45. I keep hearing good things about that one so I may sell this Rhino and get either of the Mobile Fidelity pressings. Not into this Rhino so much. I don't own the '79 cut, it was borrowed for this video. Unfortunately I thought the Rhino would be a keeper but it isn't for me.
@jeffbrown-hill7739
4 ай бұрын
Nice review! I have the Rhino Hi-Fi edition and I think it sounds wonderful, but that is on my very modest system which seems to tend a bit towards the smooth/dark side. I also own the MoFi SACD of "American Beauty", but no SACD player. The only way I've heard that one is on my car stereo. I do like the sound of it a lot, though. Regardless, I personally think this record will always sound good no matter the pressing. We're talking a matter of degrees and personal preference, as you say.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Jeff, It's absolutely true that the Rhino might sound great on a system that is a bit on the warm/dark side. Personal preferences certainly play into it. I do appreciate your view of it and am glad you enjoyed the video, even though we came to different conclusions.
@jeffbrown-hill7739
4 ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMattersTo be clear, the RHF is the only pressing I have heard on my system. If I had the other two included in your video, I might prefer one of them. I may also be incorrect about the relative tonality of my system. Here's the signal chain: Technics SL-QD33>AT 122LP>NAD 3155>RBH MC-6C bookshelves. (For whatever it's worth, I was told these speakers are fairly neutral.)
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Jeff, This is one frustrating thing about our hobby. I don't think there is a definitive pressing for everyone. There can be a sort of consensus but there are just so many variables. Unfortunately I have to hear multiple pressings to even begin to talk about it, and even then I am very careful to state my preference, and what differences I heard. It's tricky to navigate. I'm always wary if someone says something is definitive or worse uses terms like "wipes the floor with" and other nonsense. I don't always remember to say it but in a subjective review, it's always "in my opinion' I hope I project my reviews in this way.
@jeffbrown-hill7739
4 ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMattersIn my humble opinion, your reviewing style is very transparent and honest. These things are always subjective, and I never get the vibe from you that you think your opinion is somehow "definitive". Keep up the great work in guiding people to their own sonic nirvana! ✌️
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thank you, that is exactly how I hope that I come across to people. It's really just me, talking to friends.
@Andrew_from_Oz_Vinyl_Landscape
4 ай бұрын
Hi Scott and thanks for the review , I found u another potential speaker to audition, the new MoFi source point 888 msrp $5K three way floor stander, with easy impedance designed by Andrew Jönes
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thank you Andrew, I did hear the Sourcepoint at the Florida Audio Show with their demo material and it did sound promising. I may be able to audition it more closely with a wider range of music if I have time.
@VoiceofFox
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for this comparison - happy to keep my Bellman cut!
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
I think that copy is preferable. If you really felt you needed a second copy, I'd go with the MFSL or MOFI 45. Maybe in a system that's dark and rolled off on top, but I don't think most of us would have that type of system
@VoiceofFox
4 ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMatters I have a very modest system compared to yours but I do like a little clarity, so I use a microline stylus on an Audio-Technica MM cartridge and the Bellman sounds just right to me. Warm but also clear, and I can crank it loud, which is usually the acid test.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
@@VoiceofFox I agree, whatever level the system is on, it's how it's voiced that matters. I heard megabuck systems at the audio shows that were not fun to listen to. T think your in solid ground with an AT microline. I also use that shape in the Hana ML, and I get just the right amount of clarity and detail without sacrificing a warm inviting sound. .
@VoiceofFox
4 ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMatters Good to hear you say that. I often think about blowing some money to upgrade something but I don't really know what I'd be trying to achieve, so I never know what to swap out. It sounds good enough to me. Maybe it's the shape of my ears or something. :)
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
@@VoiceofFox Well, I've been there, upgrading things haphazardly without being clear what I was trying to achieve. If you're enjoying all aspects of the reproduction, you don't need to go in that merry go round. If you CAN define where your system could use improvement, and you have the will to try to correct it, you can start trying to address it. Sometimes a tweak is all that's needed. I highly recommend the book Get Better Sound by Jim Smith. He's a master set up man, and goes through hundreds of tweaks you can try for free before you even thing of spending a cent. Highly recommended
@RobertWrightOneManCovers
4 ай бұрын
I've heard Oz's shootout of these 2011 and 2024 Rhinos vs the old MFSL, and your description here matches mine quite exactly. The top end transients are so strident and forward on the RHF that I found it to be unlistenable. Meanwhile, the old MFSL sounds utterly natural to me, like real humans playing real acoustic instruments. I've worked for years with the best engineers (recording, mixing, and mastering) trying to get the most natural sounding recordings of acoustic instruments going on nearly 30 years, and the original MFSL shows why Stan was and will always be THE master of mastering.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thank you for your informative and detailed comment Robert. I too never felt that the acoustic instruments or the vocals sounded like what they sound like in real life. It's a sound signature I found so off-putting, that it drove me away from the Rhino Hi Fi. Sadly it's the only copy I bought for my collection and I have little desire to play it again. MFSL took a lot of flack from audiophiles back in the day, but Stan Ricker has always been one of my favorite mastering engineers. His work on the Telarc releases was great too. I think Kevin is among the top of the engineers working today, and I can only surmise from this and the two previous releases is he is doing this under the orders from someone else at Rhino.
@RobertWrightOneManCovers
4 ай бұрын
That very well could be, though I can’t really imagine why on a release like this. I’m sure will never know. But you should at least be able to sell your RHF for nearly as much as you paid for it, and then keep an eye out for an original MFSL. I told Oz earlier that this album is a Kevin Gray anomaly for me. I’ve got tons of records he’s done, and I wouldn’t characterize a single one of them as harsh or strident or even forward. I picked up a lot of the heavyweight 12 inch singles he and Steve were releasing from the albums they were doing reissues of, and they’re all fantastic - warm, organic, detailed, quiet, everything you could want. This RHF doesn’t even sound like him. Weird!
@RobertWrightOneManCovers
4 ай бұрын
MFSL had a few missteps back in the day, but the vibe back then (as it was with Nautilus) was to get the most engaging experience out of the masters, not replicate the masters being played flat on your system. But MFSL made the mistake of claiming that was exactly the point of their efforts when it clearly wasn’t. If they hadn’t ever made that claim, they would’ve been forever hailed as the best.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
That's so true, they are definitely tailored to sound engaging. I like that approach. Occasionally they went overboard, but I remember and experienced reacting to them differently over the years and as my system evolved. It seems they are having a bit of a reassessment after years of people putting them down. I think the thought was a) they sounded great in the systems of the day, then b) they don't sound so good as your system improves. But now I can see and have heard some of them to really stand up to any others, and in some cases are the best. It's always case by case.
@doodahdavesrecords4319
4 ай бұрын
I have the stan ricker let my OG copy go unfortunately question Scott what is your favorite song on the album? I like Till The ‘Morning comes
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Glad you've hung on to the Stan Ricker cut. It's truly a beauty! I have to say I love the lead off track Box of Rain, but that could change as I become more familiar with the second side, which I didn't know as well. Some beautiful songs there too.
@flamingroove
4 ай бұрын
I got the Rhino, sounds good but my original 1970 WB sounds just as good. maybe a little more noise I bought when it first came out & played it a lot Rhino cover is better.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for your comment. Yes the jackets in this series are incredible. I wish the mastering was more to my taste but three in a row have not won me over. I'm glad you are liking it though. I would have thought the original would sound more natural, but I didn't have one for this.
@rc2257
4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for this video and for stressing that musicality matters just as much as SQ. Something that other reviewers forget. I've seen reviews of the Gaucho UHQR from people who published their review the first day they heard it. During that initail euphoria we all experience when our analytical side utterly marvels at the stunning clarity and the stunning technical achievement of the expensive super-audiophile pressing. I've experienced that, for sure. But if all of that is not in service of the musicality, if it doesn't make my ears happy and fill my heart with joy, then the novelty of the brilliant SQ wears off and I never listen to the record again. So thank you for always emphasizing the musicality. How it makes you feel. That's what I care about when I'm deciding wehther to spend $100-150 on a super-audiophile pressing. Best, Ron
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Ron! Great to hear from you. I too am surprised at the quick assessments of Gaucho appearing. I get that, wanting to be out there first, but I agree with your point that initial enthusiasm can really get in the way of a real critical assessment. I have succumbed to this urge on occasion, recently with Candy O, which I've wanted to ask you about. I had one of these quick first impressions videos up for a few hours, and thought better of it, and worked on a more complete assessment over a few weeks instead. I know you were one who commented that they were getting Candy O, and I'm wondering if you are hearing the type of sound I describe here and on my full Candy O follow up. I actually sat on this American Beauty video for a while, and listened further over a couple of weeks on my new speakers to be sure what I described was accurate. When I came to the same conclusion, I thought I should release it. I don't want to be one of these guys that do puff pieces and walk on eggshells. We all hear things differently and even so I am careful to describe differences I hear, and which might appeal to a listeners priorities. That is why you'll never hear me declare a king, just a preference. To me this release was the opposite of what I consider musical. It didn't speak to my heart, and I never could let go of the magnification of detail. It's too obvious and got in the way of the music which is incredible.
@Ricardo-fs1xe
4 ай бұрын
Hi Scott, Great video as well. Have you had a chance to listen to the Vinyl Me Please version in the Anthology box set? How it compares to these ones? Tks!
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Hi Ricardo, I'm afraid I have not been able to hear that version. Do you have it? I wonder how it compares to the Rhino too.
@brianbillings6815
4 ай бұрын
Hate to admit that I've never listened to the Grateful Dead's studio albums. I have over 1000 show bootlegs and have attended multiple concerts from them in the 1990s and multiple Dead & Company concerts as well. I've been reluctant to delve into the studio work because their improvisations and crowd energy lead to the "lightning in a bottle" that certain shows would attain. Never a band with great vocals or vocal harmonies either. 🤷♂
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
I'm not the biggest fan, and have no live material though I've heard some. I guess seeing them orients you to prefer the more extended jamming style rather than this more focused set of tracks. 1,000 bootlegs! Wow! You qualify as a Deadhead 😁
@brianbillings6815
4 ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMatters They were really good instrumental musicians. Branford Marsalis has great things to say about playing with them. I saw him sit in with them in Los Angeles. Of course, Bruce Hornsby was a touring member at one point when they were between keyboardists and he's another musician I greatly admire. They were more than random jamming which I believe is misunderstood. Though they always took time to explore during the "space" portion of their shows their bluegrass and jazz chops were quite developed.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
@@brianbillings6815 I think this is an album you really should hear. Not the Rhino though. I would try an original or other pressing noted here. The musicianship is outstanding and it really got me interested in the group. I probably do misunderstand the live experience because I never had it! What I understood was they stretched out a bit live with extended versions of songs, but I also understood it wasn't aimless noodling.
@brianbillings6815
4 ай бұрын
@@ThePressingMatters Dave's Picks Cornell '77 would be my pick for you to begin listening to their live shows. Like jazz, sometimes they couldn't find the magic and sometimes magic happened. 😊
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
I'll check it out if I can. Thanks for the recommendation. With so much live material out there it's dizzying to know where to start.
@rcpsammy7186
4 ай бұрын
After we spoke the other day and you expressed your concerns with this issue, I've decided to take a pass. My mofi is sublime. We are in total agreement on that LP. I hadn't played it in a while because my copy is so clean and I want to take care of it, but I've played it a couple times in the last few days. Appreciate you articulating these records today. Well done. Btw, I remember seeing a vid of yours about the Vinyl Storage Solutions outer sleeves. I was in a shop yesterday that had some, so I picked up a couple of packs...the gatefold sleeves with flaps and the double pocket sleeves with a flap. It won't be cost effective for me to resleeve thousands of records, so I doubt I'll keep getting the double pocket ones, but I'd like to get more gatefold sleeves.
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Thank you for your comments. I pretty confident you are not missing anything musically important by not getting this Rhino. The MFSL and apparently the MOFI do not suffer from what I describe here. I hope future releases can rethink this approach because I really was looking forward to what they have in the vaults and may release. Great comments on the VSS sleeves. Glad you have them a try.
@ergloo6660
4 ай бұрын
Sorry but you really need an original as that is the starting point (excluding tape of course)
@ThePressingMatters
4 ай бұрын
Of course, I always work with what I have or can access. Have you any thoughts on the pressings you have?
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