*Timestamps for Chapters:* 0:00 - Introduction 0:08 - Information about guest speaker 0:22 - Topic of the Livestream 0:49 - New Testament: it's History and Reliability 1:40 - Examples of contradictions in the New Testament 3:14 - Other contradictions 4:01 - Trial of Jesus PBUH 6:44 - Reason of having the trial 7:58 - Where did most of Jesus's ministry took place ? 9:16 - Sources used by historians to investigate Jesus PBUH 11:54 - What are the Reliable sources ? 12:53 - Paul and mention of Jesus in his letters 14:22 - Dates of the Biblical texts 15:33 - How do historians decide what is reliable & authentic in terms of Historicity ? 20:28 - Agreement between all textual sources 21:42 - Did the historical Jesus actually choose 12 disciples ? 22:20 - Finding anachronisms in the Biblical texts 26:19 - Why Gospel of John uses Anachronism of Jesus ? 30:02 - Jesus PBUH denying being God in the Gospel of Mark 33:50 - Matthew copying and editing Mark 36:26 - Differences between scholars about the criteria of Historicity of Jesus 40:45 - Different Biblical scholars arriving on different versions of historical Jesus 45:43 - Historical Jesus on ethics 50:33 - Who was the Historical Jesus based on reliable sources ? 56:18 - Did the Historical Jesus obey the Mosaic laws ? 59:06 - Apocalyptic tone of Jesus's teachings 1:00:38 - Discontinuity between the Historical and Biblical Jesus and why Dale Martin is a Christian 1:08:01 - Creed based on substance 1:11:14 - Constructing and understanding the Historical Jesus 1:13:43 - Jesus of Faith vs Jesus of History 1:22:21 - Closing Statements. SUBHANALLAH ❤️🤍❤️ Another Insightful and Informative stream.
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
thanks!
@asadullahsaaid3794
2 жыл бұрын
@@BloggingTheology After I finish commenting all the timestamps, you can pin it for the viewers brother Paul. 👍🏻
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
@@asadullahsaaid3794 thank you for doing this!
@asadullahsaaid3794
2 жыл бұрын
@@BloggingTheology My pleasure brother Paul. ☺️😊 May Allah SWT bless you and accept your efforts. ❤️
@asadullahsaaid3794
2 жыл бұрын
@@BloggingTheology I've finished the timestamps. You can pin the comment now. 👍🏻👌🏻
@Hunter-ue3ny
2 жыл бұрын
Nice beard, Paul.
@richman8082
2 жыл бұрын
@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars
@raypardillo6788
2 жыл бұрын
Looks very appropriate. 👍👌
@shiroboo525
2 жыл бұрын
@@yulia5009 Thank you for sharing sis.
@ChildofGod98765
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you you for this because I wanted to give up this knowledge gives me hope, my husband died three years ago making me a single mother both of my sons are autistic. I’m struggling to provide for them since losing my job over not getting the vaccine. I refused due to my declining health (Lupus) and heart disease. Please keep me in your prayers. ❤️
@anonymous-ml9yk
2 жыл бұрын
Amen
@TheBobbysPerspective
2 жыл бұрын
Are your kids vaccinated?
@TravelingPhilosopher
2 жыл бұрын
May God provide for you and grant you and your sons blessings that would provide relief to you and help you heal from the trauma that you have gone through in life. Aameen!
@zainabzuhasarafdeen4873
2 жыл бұрын
May god guide you and your family towards truth and provide abundantly in this world and hereafter Aameen
@momonasri8611
2 жыл бұрын
May Allah swt aid for you, heal you and protect your kids too sister amiin 🤲🏽🤲🏽🤲🏽
@DAWAHTIME1
2 жыл бұрын
Came to see Brother Paul's beard 🙂
@ahy7181
2 жыл бұрын
I must say this is a brilliant piece. Prof Dale was very frank when it comes to the contradictions in the bible. Paul asked all the most important questions and yes that wicked English sense of humour: Not a great diet I wouldn't recommend that diet today .....Hilarious. Once again welldone Paul!
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
❤️🙏
@ahy7181
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 Hey don't be a sore loser !!!
@ahy7181
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 "Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying 'Eli Eli lema sabachthani? ' which is, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? '” (Matthew 27:46) A saviour indeed!!! Kind regards
@abdan7262
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 Jesus is a Muslim so we win.
@johnabra1860
2 жыл бұрын
After this lecture, I feel my vocabulary is severely limited. Thank you both so much for this great quality content.
@RashidAli-bp3mr
2 жыл бұрын
Paul- you should invite Hamza Yusuf or Reza Aslan? I'm sure it would be very interesting.
@conjugatemethod
2 жыл бұрын
Is Reza a Muslim? I’m sure I heard him saying religions are metaphorical though this was many years ago.
@RashidAli-bp3mr
2 жыл бұрын
@@conjugatemethod he identifies himself as a muslim. He wrote a very interesting book about jesus.
@chadgarber
2 жыл бұрын
Couldn't Jesus' family had both places for their hone town at different time? Also, just because there is no record of a census doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's an argument from silence.
@aasemkhalid3685
2 жыл бұрын
I think Dale has lost it completely when he wanted to justify his belief in Christianity as a religion although it doesn't make sense for him as a historian
@f1aziz
2 жыл бұрын
He's basically segregated "realities" based on the discipline of history and religion. Intellectually, that allows him to be able to believe in both without needing to attempt to reconcile these contradictory realities. That's clever.
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
but is it coherent?
@nu-nisamiracle2401
2 жыл бұрын
That's what hpcrite means.
@f1aziz
2 жыл бұрын
@@BloggingTheology I have never seen anyone compartmentalizing their beliefs like that. May be it's just a cop out. He couldn't get the historical Jesus reconcile with Jesus of his faith, I felt he was far more convinced of historical Jesus though, but he's not open to challenge his views on Jesus in Christianity. No I don't think it's coherent.
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
@@f1aziz I tend to agree
@monzersami1642
2 жыл бұрын
@Blogging Theology he answered that very mystery at 1:02:59 .. he says his life would be impoverished if he gave up his belief of Christianity which he grew up with.. he feels he would lose his identity then and I can feel him on that sense.. may god guide him and all of us!
@chadgarber
2 жыл бұрын
Peter hearing about the trial is totally plausible? Why is that clearly made up?
@ameg2707
2 жыл бұрын
Enjoying with a cup of tea ☕️ Jazak Allah Khair 🌹
@richman8082
2 жыл бұрын
@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars
@VandalIO
2 жыл бұрын
that Spanish word ojalá is from “inshallah” .. google the word to learn it’s history
@MrChi31
2 жыл бұрын
Yes 🙌🏻 we also say camisa (قميص) pantalón (بنطلون ) azúcar (سكر) and more!!
@schorpioen7466
2 жыл бұрын
And portuguese
2 жыл бұрын
I feel smarter just listening.. tnx u.. u guys are great.. very intellectually honest conversation..
@VandalIO
2 жыл бұрын
Dale martins rendition of historical Jesus is so Islamic ! I just wonder why don’t they believe !
@ConsideringPhlebas
2 жыл бұрын
Why is it when a liberal scholar says "the New Testament isn't reliable about the historical Jesus," Muslims hear the words "the Qur'an is totally reliable on the historical Jesus."
@VandalIO
2 жыл бұрын
@@ConsideringPhlebas Quran doesn’t contradicts ! And quranic Jesus is more plausible!
@ConsideringPhlebas
2 жыл бұрын
@@VandalIO The Quran is full of contradictions and no secular scholar believes the Quran is remotely reliable on who Jesus was. Even Dale Martin in this interview specifically says that only the Canonical Gospels, the 'sayings' Gospel of Thomas and authentic Pauline letters provide credible historical information about Jesus. Really? The Quranic Jesus is more plausible from a historical perspective? The talking new-born Jesus who makes living birds from clay like in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas?
@AmmaraSHAH773377
2 жыл бұрын
@@ConsideringPhlebas there obviously will be reports of the miracles in the Bible. I actually need to learn them all as its difficult to remember from school. Actually i don't think in the uk we ever went through more than walk on water or the healing miracles and of course i will differentiate between the mucous in the Qur'an from the Bible. What's truly a shame is that the jewish people tried to discredit him and crucify him in the way the people Cursed by God were and still deny him or worse, curse him.
@hashh2019
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 And Jesus warned people of false prophets coming in his name and doing miracles im his name.
@dr.zisreligious
2 жыл бұрын
Mashallah hidayatallah jazakallah khair ❤️👍
@islamnurul5261
2 жыл бұрын
Can you try to bring Dr.Zakir on an episode .
@justarshad8354
2 жыл бұрын
@@yulia5009 great..thanks for sharing..
@Chandransingham
2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant! I read his Biblical Truths in 40 days and was very impressed. It answers all the questions for me. Lots of references to follow-up for further reading. Great scholar and thinker. God bless. Thanks Paul.
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@ultrahd3388
2 жыл бұрын
{Have you seen he who took his desire for a god? With knowledge, Allah has led him astray, setting a seal upon his hearing and heart, and has made a veil over his eyes, who then shall guide him after Allah? Will you not then remember! (23)} surah 45.
@phillipanon7139
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul for this superb discourse. Both you and Dale are a wealth of knowledge! This video is so interesting and lucid for a layman like myself.
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@simonlealbarria6550
2 жыл бұрын
1:06:15 "Ojalá" is indeed a spanish word. It derives from the arabic language (like some other words in spanish) and expresses the desire that something happens.
@ebainton
2 жыл бұрын
In Arabic, law shā' Allah: If only God had willed it. I'm interested that ojalá also has the meaning of in shā' Allah, if God so wills, depending on context
@asifuzzaman924
2 жыл бұрын
You are looking great with beard.
@MohamedShou
2 жыл бұрын
Dale Martin and Ali Ataie is probably my favoured guests on this channel. Even though the other guests are amazing in their own right too 😁
@hamzatniyi3541
2 жыл бұрын
"And now they reject the truth when it reaches them: but soon shall they learn the reality of what they used to mock at".(Q6:5)
@danielmasters5484
2 жыл бұрын
When speaking of the historical Jesus, Dr. Martin comes to conclusions which are practically identical to the Islamic view of Jesus and his mission. Unfortunately, he is somehow unable to break free of his traditional Christian beliefs and instead makes a vain attempt at mental gymnastics to reconcile these with the objective outcomes of his research.
@Hunter-ue3ny
2 жыл бұрын
Good observation.
@jordanh5803
2 жыл бұрын
Sometimes it's hard for people to "abandon" their religious identity however it's very important for us to iterate that understanding something isn't enough.. if we truly believe in God and we researched enough to know about God and what he expects of us then we MUST follow... I say that with all the love in the world for Dr. Martin but knowing and following aren't exactly synonymous (practicing what you preach so to speak) ... his way of thinking reminds me of Dr. Jerald dirks (May Allah grant him the highest of heavens) as he was doing mental gymnastics before finally internalizing the label of a Muslim ... he called himself an atypical-Christian for the longest time until he realized that being a Muslim didn't change his cultural identity one bit , the only thing it changed was his religious identity which is something he changed even before internalizing the term Muslim ..
@halwarner3326
Жыл бұрын
Thank you kamala harris.
@cor-z8m
4 ай бұрын
We all have opinions.
@joecaner
Жыл бұрын
(1:14:25) _"There's no real Jesus. That's what I'm trying to say. There are only the Jesus of faith or the Jesus of history. There's no real Jesus. It’s according to which discourse you’re talking about. As a Christian, I say of course the real Jesus is the divine Jesus…I would even go further and say the second person of the Trinity…of two natures, fully human and fully divine. But all of that is taking the Jesus as Jesus came to be in the creeds of the Church. Now, if someone says to explain why do I do that, I think, well, part of my faith is believing that what became Christian doctrine didn’t exist in the year 30 in Palestine. It developed. Well, what makes me a Christian is that I believe that the Holy Spirit led the Church into fuller truths that didn’t exist for humans in the year 30. In other words, later developments of the the Christian faith are themselves divine developments. They are led by the providence of God. But it makes no sense as a historian to say that the Nicene Creed is true because it was led by the providence of God…It just doesn’t make any sense to say that in the context of historical research.”_ ― Dale Martin This is where Dr. Martin answers the question, “was there a historical Jesus?” By the standard he sets forth, a historical Jesus make no sense because all a historian has available are documents and doctrines developed through the guidance of divine intervention.
@AntiKaratekid
Жыл бұрын
Dale’s responses to Pauls questions about his belief seemed oddly defensive, bordering on rude. As if others had also pointed out the unsatisfactory, contradictory answers Dale gave about his belief. You can’t logically say you believe that the Holy Spirit guided the church while squirming when Paul asked you if Jesus was truly God. Dale may be a good biblical scholar, but his discombobulated personal theology is a great example of why the Episcopal church is dying out within the next few decades. No one is inspired by such a self-doubting, relativistic take on Christian belief. Christianity would be a footnote in history had people believed as Dale does. It’s telling that he said his life would be impoverished without his belief, meaning perhaps that Christianity has been related to some personal lifestyle choice with no ability to say something truthful about life. “We don’t have access to reality” is very secular and post modern and why people end up converting to more virile religions or becoming atheist. Mental gymnastics cannot sustain the soul.
@nicolascarrion5055
9 ай бұрын
Ojalá, as many other words in Spanish, comes from Arabic, law sha'a Allah. May God grant that, or God willing, the Islamic heritage on Spanish culture and language is huge. Although I agree to certain degree on it has lost the initial meaning in Arabic, when said in Spanish, the substance of it, it is still religious, the Din is on it even if people are unaware of its meaning. Normally people say it as good will for wishes to come true, but I agree with Mr Martin, language can be translated, but some times to the most equivalent form to the translated destination language, losing part of the actual meaning on the process.
@azhajouj
2 жыл бұрын
I always wondering if Jesus disciples believed that Jesus is God or son of God how they ran away to Galilei and left him alone to his distiny and they don't dare to. Be present during his crisifoction . ?? If kings bodyguards sacrificed thier life to protect their king how these disciples ran away without to protect their God ??
@nu-nisamiracle2401
2 жыл бұрын
Coz there is no one to be prtected. Jesus already ascnd to the heaven.
@azhajouj
2 жыл бұрын
@@nu-nisamiracle2401 my response to these who believe that thier God has been humelated , beaten and crucified
@littleboy437
Ай бұрын
Did Dr. Martin misspoke ? Jesus was crucified in Rome ? He said ?
@irshaadpangaker5085
2 жыл бұрын
Aslm Paul. You looking good. We are aware of Paul's writings being earliest yet he never met Jesus the gospels were written afterwards with all these contradictory reports I wud like to know how do they take these fairytales to be God's worth... I dnt understand that and then idiots like James white and other stooges go out of their way to prove the new testament is God's word. It seems like even if Jay Smith must write a gospel then 100 years from now it mite be included in the new testament
@Mhh90
2 жыл бұрын
'This criteria was only developed in the 20th century'. It's wonderful to know the methods to authenticate hadith was present at a very early stage in Islam
@Mhh90
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 I only read Bible passages when I watch videos about the Bible. There's nothing wrong with the Bible per say. It's just that a lot of it can't be attributed to the Devine or Jesus PBH. The Quran however is different. Every single word of the Quran is spoken from the mouth of Muhammad PBH himself who claims to have received it from Gabriel on God's orders. It was memorized and eventually compiled in a book by the companions. Whether you believe Muhammad's PBH claim is a different matter. But one thing's for sure, Jesus never said "I have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me. How sweet are Your words to my taste, Sweeter than honey to my mouth!"
@Mhh90
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 You probably need to see a doctor. You have a condition.
@Mhh90
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 Pseudobulbar affect (PBA) is a condition that's characterized by episodes of sudden uncontrollable and inappropriate laughing or crying.
@Harris.Z
2 жыл бұрын
Why is Dale still a Christian while knowing all this information about contradictions in the bible etc..
@tobi4637
2 жыл бұрын
just remember this..abu talib live side by side with prophet Muhammad..yet we know what happen to him..
@boxerfencer
2 жыл бұрын
He says why, postmodernism.
@boxerfencer
2 жыл бұрын
@David Isa best attested? Rofl!
@boxerfencer
2 жыл бұрын
@David Isa did Jesus write the gospels? Any of them? Were they written during his lifetime? Under his supervision? What's so best attested of the gospels? Their contradictions?
@nahumhabte6210
2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting interview. I like This professor , he is quite honest and thoughtful
@shiroboo525
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Paul..T'was good discussion.❤
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
T'was indeed.
@oldtwinsna8347
2 ай бұрын
RIP to Professor Martin as he died last year.
@ckotty
2 жыл бұрын
Again very thankful to Dr Dale. It is a mesmerizing topic, very hard to "swallow" for misinformed Christians. What an honest portrayal. Great exposition and questioning. I am privileged for these "bites".👍🏽😘
@momonasri8611
2 жыл бұрын
Dr Dale Martin believe in Jesus PBUH is similar to what Islam teaches about Isa (Jesus) PBUH but he seems bit confused about the historical Jesus vs the what Christians believe Jesus to be, and also does God really existence or to define God as is. I wonder why he didn’t checked Islam.
@michaelwhite8031
2 жыл бұрын
Eye witnesses to any event always see things differently. There were many high ranking Jews that were sympathetic to Jesus who could have witnessed his trial. Jesus was no ordinary man but a thorn in the side of high ranking priests, so they wanted the Romans to meat out Judgement. Thousands of people don't die for a myth.
@visionbiblique
2 жыл бұрын
[..] When a liberal scholar says "the New Testament isn't reliable about the historical Jesus," Muslims hear the words "the Qur'an is totally reliable on the historical Jesus." [ConsideringPhlebas]. Good. Muslims spoke as if the historical Jesus was born under a tree, he spoke with his mother immediately after his birth, he never was been on the cross, he never died, now he is in one of the Muslim skies. he will come back to die ... Is that the historical Jesus? Noooooooooo.
@fikarrusdiawan9562
2 жыл бұрын
There is still much for you to learn.
@faisalsiraj9423
2 жыл бұрын
@Aide aux Ames Who is "the historical Jesus?" The Jesus who GOD of the Bible DECEIVED and EXPOSED as a FALSE messiah and a S.T.I.N.K.I.N.G IMPOSTER UNDER GOD'S CURSE. *GOD RIGHTLY DECEIVED Jesus of the Bible* Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, *I, THE LORD, HAVE DECEIVED THAT PROPHET* , and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. God RIGHTLY DECEIVED Jesus because God already knew that Jesus was an imposter and a false messiah who uttered false prophecies and no wonder God of the Bible EXPOSED Jesus of the Bible and DECEIVED him in to a false sense of trust that he will be GUARDED and PROTECTED and that NO HARM will befall him. Jesus of the Bible $hat his p@nt$ and PRAYED to TAKE AWAY THE CUP from him. The dude had protection from the Crucifixion in mind but BUT God DECEIVED him and made the people of Israel rightly classify him as a FALSE messiah and an IMPOSTER. Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, *I, THE LORD, HAVE DECEIVED THAT PROPHET* , and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. So some false prophet and someone UNFAITHFUL to GOD and hence the CURSED BY GOD death and RIGHTLY NOT PROTECTED from the cross by GOD. GOD made the Israelites RIGHTLY classify him as a FALSE messiah and a stinking IMPOSTER as per the scripture standard. For the LORD loves justice and will *NOT ABAND0N* HIS faithful ones. They are kept safe forever, but the children of the w1cked will be destroyed. Psalm 37:28 VS Jesus: “...... My God, my God, why have you *ABAND0N€D* me? ” Mark 15:34
@chadgarber
2 жыл бұрын
Jesus didn't say He wasn't God but was asking if the dude perhaps had faith to believe Jesus was God.
@saeefullahmohammad1402
2 жыл бұрын
It amazed me when basically he said the jesus he worships is not the jesus he "preaches". It truth deeds are made fair seeming even though it's obvious.
@eri6219
Жыл бұрын
Professor martin is one of my favorite New Testament/early Christianity scholars. Strongly recommend his lectures “New Testament” with Yale which are available on KZitem.
@shefayetchowdhury6316
2 жыл бұрын
That was excellent!
@justarshad8354
2 жыл бұрын
A kid name 'MATHEW PAULSON' is spamming nonsense in the comment section..he just got triggered over the REALITY TRUTH Paul and Dale puts out.. So ignore him guys..his a waste of time..
@zenityquest8402
2 жыл бұрын
Please bring Brian Berlectic of New Atlas on the show. He's an ex-marine who left the US military after reading the Quran. He never went back to the US after that.
@RealityCheck1
Жыл бұрын
Most put their religion on Yeshuah
@hafiz5001
2 жыл бұрын
nice stream thanks
@ajk5884
2 жыл бұрын
What I learn after hearing Christians speak about Jesus: HOW THE HECK DOES THIS HELP ME IN MY LIFE?
@mumtazzafar1576
2 жыл бұрын
Jesus is son of marry and a prophet of God. That's what this interview proves.
@myopinion4136
2 жыл бұрын
Bismillah. I think it was more about the Bible not being a word of God, rather, a book of man (multiple people) where one verse contradicts with another verse
@shuaybgallo_abufadwa
2 жыл бұрын
Great education, thx Paul
@mac62sg_Emir
2 жыл бұрын
Why is still there denial of truth...Allah give human mankind with the most precious gift.. Intelligence.. Ego.. ignorance..I wonder..
@astreet2117
Ай бұрын
The book of Mark is ultimately the best source for historical knowledge of who Jesus was-but you must read it in ancient greek; the translations are biased and, therefore, false. Anyone who does this right, will study themselves out of Christianity. Early indoctrination is very very strong...
@BlergleslinkVettermoo
2 жыл бұрын
I've really enjoyed these talks with Dale Martin.
@elijahadeleye_followChrist
4 ай бұрын
But to this, Dr Dale haven't told us to open the Bible to confirm because he may be lying to us..... You will understand this if you've taken his lectures.😊😊😊
@covffchannel
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent podcast Mashallaah
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it
@janvanpoppel2814
3 ай бұрын
Dr. Martin and others like Dr. Ehrmann take the position that Jesus would not speak any Greek other than a few words. From Nazareth the Roman city of Sepphoris is walking distance. During Jesus life this city was being reconstructed and being a "tekton", a skilled craftsman this must have been a valuable source of income. He would have been there in close contact with Greek speaking citizens and would have spoken enough Greek to do the work required. Obviously that is something else as having deep philosophical discussions, but nonetheless.
@bibletheology2889
Жыл бұрын
For those who refuse to accept the Authority of the ONLY Word of Almighty God, the 66 Books of the Holy Bible, where there is ABUNDANT evidence on the Real existence of the Real Person, The Lord Jesus Christ, Who IS Eternally Almighty God. We have secular historians who are very clear that Jesus Christ most certainly is a VERY REAL PERSON! Tacitus (56-120 AD) “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.” (Tacitus, Annals 15.44) Pliny the Younger (61-113 AD) “They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food-but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.” (Book X, letter 96) Suetonius (69-140 AD) “Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4) Lucian of Samosata: (115-200 AD) “The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account….You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.” (Lucian, The Death of Peregrine. 11-13) Josephus (37-101 AD) “Now around this time lived Jesus, a wise man. For he was a worker of amazing deeds and was a teacher of people who gladly accept the truth. He won over both many Jews and many Greeks. Pilate, when he heard him accused by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, (but) those who had first loved him did not cease (doing so). To this day the tribe of Christians named after him has not disappeared” (The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 18, Chapter 3) Jewish Talmud (400-700 AD) “It was taught: On the day before the Passover they hanged Jesus. A herald went before him for forty days (proclaiming), “He will be stoned, because he practiced magic and enticed Israel to go astray. Let anyone who knows anything in his favor come forward and plead for him.” But nothing was found in his favor, and they hanged him on the day before the Passover. (b. Sanhedrin 43a)
@stevenv6463
2 жыл бұрын
Did professor Dale Martin say that historians think Jesus (as) was crucified in Rome? Surely he misspoke and meant Jerusalem, right?
@BloggingTheology
2 жыл бұрын
Misspoke
@brygenon
2 жыл бұрын
@@BloggingTheology Obviously misspoke. I suggest in the future you might interject, "of course you meant..." rather than letting it go.
@Chew81
10 ай бұрын
What gets my goat with Muslim apologists is the disingenuous way in which you cite sources and authorities. All of your biblical and historical experts lean towards a liberal bias. Now, I am not theologically conservative. But I detest unfairness. Imagine if Christian apologists cite nonbelieving or liberal scholars of the Qur'an or Islam who apply historical and textual criticisms on the source texts of Islam in the same way as Ehrman, Martin, and Crossan, et al. What would you say in response? Oh, they are not 'real' Muslims, blah blah blah. Come on. Please engage with theologically conservative biblical scholarship. Many of Ehrman's issues with the NT text and history are old stuff in academia. For 200 years the Germans were at it and you think that believing bible scholars have never addressed the problems? Let me put it to you that the OVERWHELMING majority of biblical scholarship is conservative. All the dying seminaries and denominations and churches are liberal and progressive. The ones that are exploding are conservative. The theological colleges that have the highest enrolment and the largest faculties are conservative. It is a bias that is to me sorely unfair and based on a naturalistic presupposition in the academy. If you wish to at least do dawa effectively, be intellectually honest. You will only convince those who are like me, and we are really THE MINORITY amongst professing Christians.
@Thomasw540
Жыл бұрын
Dale, the reason why there were no Jewish witnesses inside the Praetorium is because all of Jesus's friends had gone to ground out of danger from the Jews who wanted Jesus dead and the Jews that did show up didn't want to become unclean on the verge of Passover. The Gospel of John brings this up. If you abandoned the critical historic method of the dialectical Marxism of the JEsus Seminar, the contradiction would tend to anchor the history you prefer to ignore. For one thing, Cornelius was in the room with Pilate. Cornelius helped Pilate prepare the original euangilion to Tiberius reporting Resurrection as an important military technology. The thing that Marx didn't understand about Hegel was that the contradictions he could identify with his forensic methods were a point of paradox between the bacon with the oink removed and the bacon with the "oink" as part of a dynamical system. We can pretty well narrow the day and hour that Jesus actually died in 33 CE from the astronomy and oral history. This compresses everything that happens in Acts before Cornelius, when the cult of the Jewish Jesus Followers went on the timeline of Roman Standard Time. The tenth Legion had eyewitness spy reports of the moment Jesus comes up out of the Jordan in the arms of His cousin, John the Baptist. The first εὐθὺς appears inerrantly in the Greek manuscripts of the Gospel of Mark. We know that it was between Passover either in 28 CE or 30 CE and Pentecost, and the Reading of the Law, which was virtually mandatory for Jewish males. John Mark's first impression of Jesus was in the week before Passover in either 28 CE or 30 CE and after John the Baptist and Jesus have returned from Jericho for Laws. What should have been made Metaphysically Transparent from the emergence of Josephus since the 1960s is that the Romans were fully aware of the sphere of influence of John the Baptists as a potential insurgency before Jesus pops out of no where and takes over this irregular militia. From the Roman point of view. Before Jesus, shows up, the Romans know whether John the Batptist wipes his ass from front to back or back to front.. At what point does any of this become "History" in your little academic bag of tricks? I ran an Recon platoon on the Ho Chi Minh Trail at the moment the US Army began to bug out of the AO. My understanding of the perspective of Cornelius in the universe of Christian scholarship as near as I can tell. For one thing, I am the only American writing about The Gospel of Mark as a Roman intelligence report right out of the Ranger Handbook. Here's what happened. Jesus happened. Resurrection happened and the whole idea of actual physical Jesus H. Christ Resurrection didn't exist in the Greco-Roman mind. The recurrection events in the sort of general cultural inquiry into the nature of existence, resurrection served a certain need to explain recurring events, like the sun coming up in the morning. But actual, rise from the gore of the battlefield Resurrection was a technology way beyond sowing dragons teeth. Richard Bauckman's only error is that the mind-map he posits isn't the mind-map of a Jewish fishman but of a senior Roman centurion, Cornelius. Everything Bauckman presents as evident is validated by Mark 3:8. This verse is straight off the Roman map sheets of the AO (Area of Operations) of the X Legion. We had maps like this in Vietnam hung in the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) the Operations Officer used with plastic lamination and grease pencils in a practical application of Topology as a tool of command. At what point does "history" kick in for you. Dale? Quelle was a primary source for Josephus's The Jewish Wars and Mark 1:4 - 8 is the leading edge of the intelligence archives of the 10 Legion the instant Jesus emerges from the Jordan and steals the spotlight from John the Baptist for the Roman spy network, which is what Mark 1:14 is all about. All the assets dedicated to keeping track of John the Baptist was shifted to watching Jesus and what the Romans cane to know about the fate of John the Baptist came from the intelligence archives of Harrod Antipas by way of Pilate and their mutual interest in all things Jesus. When does your trigger for "History" get pulled, Dale? James Tabor's intuition that Mark and John are an entwined narrative is exactly correct. The moral confusion being generated by your critical historical model will evaporate like the morning mist that covered the Roman soldiers at the tomb when the women at the ending of the Gospel of Mark arrive at the Tomb when you abandon Marx for Hegel. You will be delighted at the paradigm shift.
@NaveedBashirJanjua
2 жыл бұрын
Wow Masha'Allah nice beard
@evanfreshman2450
Жыл бұрын
Ironically Ojala is a surviving Andalusian expression. law šāʾa llāhu. The Portuguese say Oxala. In English we might translate it as Inshallah. Dr. Martin is a good scholar, but I think his postmodern perspective of fragmentation is problematic. "There is no real Jesus, there's the theological Jesus and the historical Jesus." I would argue that there was/is a real Jesus, the problem is we cannot know about him except through faith or scholarship.
@normative
5 ай бұрын
I have always found the way NT scholars think about “independence” very odd. If John recapitulates stories from earlier gospels that have been circulating and read in churches for 20 years, it seems very strange to insist that this is an “independent” account just because it’s not copied verbatim from a written text.
@zainiabdullah621
Жыл бұрын
He still believe Jesus is Divine, period ! Confused after being indoctrinated since childhood its so difficult to change or amend. Unless he voluntarily and sincerely supplicate to GOD, the One Creator of all existence and in-between, to guide/hidayah him. InnSha Allah SWT will guide IF he is meant to be a resident of Jannah/Paradise or he is meant to be as fodder in Hell/Hade
@monotheist..
2 жыл бұрын
Matthew Luke Fashion mark , in Galilee only but John jesus back and forth Jerusalem tO Galilee , most of time in Galilee and crucifued in rome ,
@Mahad921
2 жыл бұрын
Dale just invented his own version of the historical Christian narrative by making the holy ghost the centre of the story
@hbh7868
2 жыл бұрын
Nice to listen to him again
@richman8082
2 жыл бұрын
@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars
@craigfairweather3401
Жыл бұрын
The Gospel of John explains Jesus’ identity in terms of a representative: he speaks God’s words, does work that follows what God wants him to do, Looked after disciples that God gave him, explained and revealed God. This is the language of a envoy, subservient to God not identical in substance and history. Trinitarian definitions are not a part of ‘John’. John can be perfectly well understood in a Socinian Unitarian manner.
@monotheist..
2 жыл бұрын
Nt is not reliabel for jesus wijen taken as face value ,so many contradict , Matthew born in Bethlehem regular Place, Luke Galilee born roman cencus, cuz of David decent , entirely different , herod Matthew slaughter , Galilee and Jerusalem , trial differ , speak little and THe other speak so much , mark Said nothinh in trial but John long convo, pseudo writing also, also King herod and coronius gubernur differ time,
@brianbucher1313
Жыл бұрын
Mark chapter one equates Jesus with God Almighty as well...
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns
11 ай бұрын
Same dale Martin who has published on arsenokokoitai? He’s good on that issue but awful on postmodern issues and historicity
@AshK1999
3 ай бұрын
“Alaha” in Spanish for God willing may lend its roots to Muslim Spain and “in sha Allah” in Arabic.
@elijahadeleye_followChrist
4 ай бұрын
Dr Dale, good to hear from you and seen your present look😮.... The voice is still the same anyways
@AshK1999
3 ай бұрын
That ending was just sad. After spending an entire lifetime studying the professor has a concept of god that isn’t dissimilar to that of an agnostic who believes in a higher power but won’t commit to anything beyond that. 😕
@emmashsu
Жыл бұрын
Maybe Jesus and Paul didn’t advocate for divorce to discourage marriage
@f1aziz
2 жыл бұрын
Brother Paul are you planning on wearing that beard? Mashallah
@jefffarris9238
Жыл бұрын
Dale misspoke. He said Jesus was crucified in Rome. He meant Jerusalem.
@monotheist..
2 жыл бұрын
Last super prolly happen but not eucharisy and Choose 12 diciple
@bilmohammed5577
2 жыл бұрын
So we don't have access to the reality of Jesus, but then you believe Jesus is the son of God. So where does that come from. Does it not come from Christian teaching which taken from the new testament. Dale Martin is going around in circles. You have no objective truth and you rely your salvation on it. Very confusing.
@fikarrusdiawan9562
2 жыл бұрын
It's complicated.
@abdulmalik_al-habeshi
2 жыл бұрын
1:06:50 okhala comes from the Arabic in sha Allah
@hassanmirza2392
2 жыл бұрын
Dear Paul, does Dale Martin also popular among Christians? What do they make of his findings?
@richman8082
2 жыл бұрын
@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars
@knusperkeks87
4 ай бұрын
I think you can be a Christian and doubt that there even was a historical Jesus.
@stevves4647
2 жыл бұрын
Why do Christians say the Bible is the word of God when its a compilation of commentary? Am I wrong, I haven't "really" read the bible.
@fikarrusdiawan9562
2 жыл бұрын
It contains the Word of God, that should be a worthy claim.
@monotheist..
2 жыл бұрын
Jesus did not intend found oN going institution after death , kungdom of god not Church real kungdom
@alexchernyshev2748
9 ай бұрын
Невозможно слушать в переводе. Поищу в оригинале
@chadgarber
2 жыл бұрын
Paul said that he received the gospel by revelation so wasn't Paul passing on the gospel quotes from the revelation?
@teddywest4910
Жыл бұрын
Our Lord crucified outside Rome ? Creative ...
@ElkoJohn
2 ай бұрын
''To know is to know that we don't know'' (Abraham Low)
@shabinanaaz7581
2 жыл бұрын
I believe prof dale Martin has lost his religion on the inside. He is about to snap and become muslim.
@fikarrusdiawan9562
2 жыл бұрын
Amen.
@tombuddy100
2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Williams seems to prefer talking to people like Dale Martin, rather than to people who would challenge Islamic narrative.
@shabinanaaz7581
2 жыл бұрын
@@tombuddy100 he is talking to Christian scholars, real ones.
@rianganus
11 ай бұрын
I'm from Indonesia, I'm Catholic in Indonesia
@megasp
2 жыл бұрын
What annoys me about some of these professors of Christianity is that they are honest on the critique of the Bible but they stop there, they don't go past that as if there is no revelation (even if they don't believe in it) after The Bible as if there's nothing that reconciles the problems In the Bible but there is the Quran and Sunnah which is authentic to the highest of standards.
@younesbenaddi4721
2 жыл бұрын
Ojalá comes from insha Allah, in portugues it almost the same word oxalá which is pronunced ochala
@purplerain2205
2 жыл бұрын
Alhumdulilah for the sciences of Hadith, this conversation was very insightful that personally further increased my love of the clarity of Islam and appreciating who Allah, the Most High is, so much more to say, SubhanAllah may Allah guide Dr. Martin, Ameen
@nu-nisamiracle2401
2 жыл бұрын
@@srnp0007 Be a muslim, then go to cairo to learn the mthodolody of grding and prsrving hadith. What bart ehrman do to the bible, muslim already do those to the hadith since 1400 years ago, more strcly than what ehrman do.
@WelcomeToTheRezvolution
2 жыл бұрын
@@nu-nisamiracle2401 That guy isn't interested in the science of Hadith.
@adelow
2 жыл бұрын
@@srnp0007 Science of hadith is a way to preserve history and sayings in it's most authentic form. The science of Hadith can truly be said as superior of documentation than any other history we have today. Chains of narration are a huge part of it and through the chains (which we have access of) we know exactly who transmitted what to someone. All the way back to the prophetﷺ. We have a grading in hadith called Mutawatir which is above the grading authentic (sahih). Basically a mass transmitted event from companions so much so that you can not reject the event. Let alone an authentic hadith is absurd to reject. Imagine about 10000 people knocking on your door, maybe 500 one day and 250 next day etc etc, saying that they saw Christiano ronaldo in the supermarket, and they heard ronaldo say something. Every single man cites ronaldo (what he said) perfectly word by word without a slighest change in word. It's a pretty bad example but essentially this is a event that u can not reject. This is a mutawatir hadith and hadith science. Wallahu A'lam
@adelow
2 жыл бұрын
@@srnp0007 Lmao yes it is. If 1000 people say EXACTLY the same thing, then u can be sure that someone said exactly that without a doubt. if someone has deviated from those wordings then u know that they didn't say the true statement because of bad memory, lying or whatever. We know people change wordings the hadith science is a way to counter the people that change meanings. The hadith science is a way to SEE who changed the wordings. We know who said authentically and who deviated from the true sayings.
@adelow
2 жыл бұрын
@@matthewpaulson6497 Lmao not u again. I don't believe in a corrupted, anonymous book with full of contradictions and failed prophecies in the first place. why would i EVER consider reading the bible.It can say whatever it wants it doesn't raise my interest for a split second.
@samiogkv1780
2 жыл бұрын
About the diet of John the Baptist eating locusts. I would not be surprised. In Saudi Arabia there are bedouins who eat locusts. They say it's delicious
@mikeforbes7705
8 ай бұрын
Commercials every 5 minutes? And if i don't hit skip, they don't end. I spend a lot of time on KZitem, and your channel is BY FAR the most commercial-ridden. I'll never be back to your channel. I can't support such greediness. Shame!
@aasemkhalid3685
5 ай бұрын
I think it depends on your location, where I live I didn't receive a single commercial during this video
@yusufk5298
2 жыл бұрын
Great conversation once again with Dale. We heard him before trying to justify his orthodox christian beliefs but it doesnt work. Paul, to digress, i had the privilege of listening to a lecture on Islsmic mosque architecture by Ahmed Keeler. A very distinguished academic from Cambridge who wrote a book, Rethinking Islam and the West. Brilliant speaker who i recommend inviting on Blogging Theology. He is 79 years old and im sure he will have an interesting story to tell.
@abdan7262
2 жыл бұрын
Jesus is a Muslim. Triggers Christians.
@waheedrather8883
2 жыл бұрын
He is in vin Diesel in a sense and Chris Evans in a sense . jokes apart,this clever guy does exactly as Abraham 's opponent did when he equated his punishing of innocent to taking a person 's life by God,and ...... His claim that we don't have access to reality is rejected by his own book ; know the truth and truth will set you free
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