Don’t worry, the “like most cats” comment was a joke. I am a dog person though.
@ShyGuyXXL
Жыл бұрын
The whole "the creature stole the thing you just worked hard to get" didn't really bother me as long as they still took me to new areas. However, something that DID bother me a ton about Dark Moon was that there were sections where you could explore a bunch of areas... but they didn't really have anything significant in them. But then you go towards the main objective and suddenly it turns out you had to first watch a cutscene where something is taken away from you, and THEN suddenly those areas which you already explored now have the new objectives in them, so you have to go through them all again, but this time with actual things to do. If I had known that, I would've just watched the cutscene right away, so I could play it normally. I dunno why they didn't just force the cutscene, if it would jus waste the player's time.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
Very good point
@ethanbibile
Жыл бұрын
Recently stumbled across your channel, and I’m loving your content! Your writing feels very considered and informed, and the emphasis on narrative and storytelling is right up my alley. Looking forward to watching more!
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot! Glad you’re enjoying it :)
@kittenfan7664
Жыл бұрын
I always saw it as the water dragon being a stuck up ahole. his solution to a monster problem was to wash it all away. not caring about the rest of the woods. you just need to put up with him because only he knows that part of the song.
@Master-Fawful958
7 ай бұрын
The more I think about it, you actually make a good point about the blackout in the first game, and it reminds me of a counterpoint to the “Dark Moon’s mission structure is annoying” argument. A common complaint with Dark Moon is that you spend time in old rooms because of the mission structure. But I’d argue that you actually spend more waisted time catching those godforsaken boos in the game. And mind you, you’re pretty much FORCED to catch almost ALL of them whether you’re going for 100% or not, (not to mention the constant back-tracking between the Mansion’s attic and basement). This is exactly why I don’t really mind the mission structure in Dark Moon. I can’t really say whether or not I prefer the structure of the other games but it does make sense on account of being on a handheld console. Luigi’s Mansion 3 is also TECHNICALLY on a handheld console but unlike Mario Odyssey; I say that the game was entirely built around it. Mario Odyssey was filled with nearly a thousand power moons because the developers were taking into consideration whether or not the player was playing in handheld mode. Also, I don’t remember if I’ve already said this but I don’t think the ScareScraper mode was much in the third game but it was pretty unreasonable for single and, therefore I only really enjoyed the ScareScraper mode in Dark Moon since it was the perfect difficulty for single player and multiplayer. I also 💕 the new channel icon.
@Master-Fawful958
3 ай бұрын
It’s videos like this that remind me of when I used go by Hilarious HammerBro and I distinctly recall this quote from one of your older videos “Yes there are plenty of games where you can play both Mario and Luigi, but the M&L RPG is where you really get invested in their brotherly love and camaraderie. The only series it’s as touching is in the Luigi’s Mansion games.”. And watching that old made me wonder if you’d share your own hot takes and I apparently got my answer. And ever since that whole Elite Trio conversation, I realized that Captain Goomba and obviously deserved the aforementioned Elite Guard promotion (especially given seeing how not only how much more loyal the are to Bowser but just how many battles they’ve won compared to the Elite Trio).
@TimReviewsEveryNAWiiGame
Ай бұрын
Pikmin 2 is a good example of this hurting a game. The game plays much better if you try to speedrun it with minimal Pikmin deaths but since the game gives no narrative or gameplay framing (as opposed to the Castaway/Hatchet style plot of the first game, the koppite's malthusiasn crisis in 3 or the day and death stats being on the end of day & pause menu GUI in 4) to do that outside a end game scorecard a player will be completely unaware of on a first play through. This means the player is likely to play that game really conservatively and use strats that aren't that novel/kinda "brute forcey" (purple grind, bitter + spicy sprays as a spam-able upgrade instead of a managed resource,etc.) which is a problem in a genre built around being clever IMO.
@GoldLight73
Жыл бұрын
Honestly what annoys me most about Polterpup/Polterkitty is how long their scenes are. Like, if they just showed up, swiped the thing and left, fine. But Luigi just stands there and does nothing for a good several seconds, watching as the key item he needs is carted off before he bothers to give chase.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
Lol I actually like the scenes but I absolutely feel that.
@ivanzoneBR24
Жыл бұрын
So, I am back, way more calm and cool than the last time. Hope we are good from now on. When you were talking about backtracking and framing, I was thinking of General White in PMTTYD, its been a few years that I last played through it, so if I remember something wrong, sorry. That story quest however felt so horribly done, because you're forced to go back to so many different areas for no reason since he was in Fahr Outpost all along and after pointless back and forth and text, you have to keep jumping to try to wake up him and that is bizarre and not fun like it is performing a Power Bounce in the battles. But what makes it horrible is that you can't just travel to the locations by the pipes in the sewer, no, you have to go up to rogueport, take the blimp to glitzville, spam A to skip the cutscene, talk to the one guy and do everything again in reverse. I think the General White backtrack is worse than the infamous Chapter 4 one, because its part of the story and isn't too egregious since you get Vivian and explore a new area, but I think General White has basically no redeeming qualities.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
We're more than good my dude - I don't even really remember what we were arguing about but I don't want to lol. Glad to have you back! Regarding General White, yeah that's a pretty infamous sequence that as far as I know is more or less universally agreed to be the absolute worst, and an egregious sore spot on the rest of the relative masterpiece that is TYD. And I agree that it is way worse than the Chapter 4 backtracking for exactly the reasons you outlined haha.
@ATalkingSock
Жыл бұрын
I've played the Mother of all bad framing games back in 2020. Synaptic Drive. It's meant to be a Custom-Robo successor, but with a new scenario to be legally distinct. But they did NOTHING WITH IT. Just haphazardly stapled Custom-Robo terminology onto a "whatever" tournament. No possible way to be immersed in that game. Didn't help that there was next to nothing to do in it either.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
Funnily enough, I played and replayed the hell out of Custom Robo on the Gamecube when I was a kid because I loved the narrative just as much as the gameplay. I got the DS sequel day one, but never ended up finishing it because the "elementary school kids participate in a tournament" premise was so low stakes and played out by comparison that it just couldn't hold my interest. Man, I wish they'd give the Gamecube one an HD port... Also, nice to see you as always Mr. Sock :)
@theghostwiththemost789
Жыл бұрын
Speaking of sparklium, what did you think of Pikmin 4?
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
In a lot of ways, I probably had the most raw fun with it out of every entry yet, but I need some time for it to ruminate before I can determine where it sits in the overall series hierarchy for me. Definitely wasn't disappointed though, I can say that :)
@theghostwiththemost789
Жыл бұрын
@@ThrillingDuck I really enjoyed it but it’s definitely not my favorite in the series. I think pikmin 3 is the best one. 4 has a lot of little problems that pile up overtime that hold it down for me
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
@@theghostwiththemost789 I totally get that. And Pikmin 3 has definitely been my overall favorite since it released, so 4's gonna have to dethrone it if I end up placing it up top.
@Barmeecarba
Жыл бұрын
This is a more overall case but despite hearing how good Rayman Legends was, how it was one of the greatest platformers up there with tropical freeze I really couldn't get into it and I think this might be why. I felt like I was just playing a level pack due to the hub, the usually reset difficulties at the end of each world which is clearly indicated as well as each level feeling totally disconnected from each other. Every level completed felt hollow but I could see how well designed they were and it isn't like each level is super mundane like most 2D mario games but yet I never got excited to play another one probably because of how the game is framed as a whole
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
Interesting! Legends having a more or less story-devoid hub system was definitely a change for the worse coming off of Origins, but I enjoyed the levels themselves regardless. I could definitely see better story framing improving the experience though.
@barelyhere7200
2 ай бұрын
I never minded the Polterpup sections in Dark Moon but I absolutely hate the Polterkitty sections in 3. I’m just a dog person I guess
@Jumpsuperfun
Жыл бұрын
At some point in the video all i could think about was how much the second Luigi's Mansion had a better online , in my opinion, then the third one. Even if it is just throught a diferent color of paint you do have many ghosts to collect. I came back to that game with my girlfriend at the time and we completed everything on the game, it was lots of fun. Btw i mean the main way to multiplay, cause sure enough the third game has some pretty nice minigames in it, dlc included. The cat segment particularly pissed me off in the third game , but it was also because i was planing to have a short playtime, as was in tv mode, and it went against expectations, had i been alone in the room i would have enjoyed it more as finding how to intereact with the thub was interesting and the backtracking does give some life back to those areas.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
I personally love both ScareScraper modes, though I give the edge to 3's, just because I love how many functions the Poltergust has in that game, and I've put more hours into it. Thanks for watching!
@Jumpsuperfun
Жыл бұрын
@@ThrillingDuck 3 is over all better in gameplay, but after beating it once i did not find any reason to play again, the ScareScraper mode that is. And always had someone to play with, so it's not like i did not try. The second had more options to pick from for a quick match or the dificulty , they should have kept some more options in the third one too. But well they will port the second over...even though i just praised it i think i have played enough of it. My next playthrough should be of the first one , this time on 3ds , i have it on GC and beat it two times, now i'll try the demake in 3d 😁.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
@@Jumpsuperfun Oh neat, I'd actually forgotten about Dark Moon's extra ScareScraper options after all these years. Hopefully they'll remain intact for the Switch port!
@Frysbear
Жыл бұрын
I think the biggest example of bad framing off the top of my head is Metroid other M. Unlocking power ups as you go... normally fine, being limited until you find things in games feels fine. But having the story reason be that some guy hasn't said you're allowed to use the heat resistant feature of your suit even though it's installed... and he is just watching you burn to death. Feels a little silly.
@PaperFlare
Жыл бұрын
I think a good example was the HMs in Pokemon games. Was the adventure always railroaded around "you need to beat this gym to progress?" Yes. But the difference between "find the HM hidden in the Safari zone, then beat the gym to earn the qualification to use the HM, then continue your adventure" feels SOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than the "lmao this guy is blocking the door and giving you a pretend excuse that you can't go through until you beat the gym." Like, it just feels really bad.
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely agreed lol, nice example!
@lethallohn
Жыл бұрын
Framing is what gets us immersed into the game; It's world building. There are tutorials in games that are tutorials just for the sake of it, and there are other games that frame tutorials into the world or a charcter. Edit: Great Vid.
@Master-Fawful958
Жыл бұрын
I definitely see where you’re coming from but I just can’t stand the Polterkitty, mainly because it felt like a half-hearted attempt to compensate for some of the pathetically short hotel floors on top of waisting the player’s time. It also pissed me that it would occasionally go back down to a previous floor, that’s like saying you fought Polterpup in the Old Clockworks and then were forced follow him to the Haunted Towers. And this only adds to my reasons for preferring Dark Moon. LM3 likes to hold the player’s hand a lot, with shit like Polterpup jumping out of the wall and not letting the player get any collectibles until inspect a certain is fully examined room or Egadd’s constant messages about grabbing this or following that super important ghost. Plus while the third game brought back the Gallery Ghosts, the standard ghosts were just uninspired rip-offs ghosts from Dark Moon. Hell, the gem goob and gold goob don’t appear in the gallery which makes no sense at all and none of the boss ghosts or standard ghosts have enemy bios. And don’t even get me started on the uninspired possessed objects or mini ghost variants. I also couldn’t help but notice that some of boo puns just recycled from the first game like “Gumboo” or “Booigi”. All that aside; I really enjoyed the video, great job👍, and side note: I don’t know why you changed the thumbnail on the second Mario RPG video but I do like it better than the old one (not much else to say about it otherwise).
@ThrillingDuck
Жыл бұрын
It's a placeholder haha. I need to figure out a finalized one when I have the time. Thanks for watching! While I'm inclined to say that LM3 is my personal overall favorite, there are still things I love about the original and Dark Moon that it doesn't have, so I still enjoy revisiting every entry in the trilogy :)
@Master-Fawful958
Жыл бұрын
I guess that’s fair, I still love the games all the same, especially the first two with Dark Moon being my favorite, mostly due to PTSDs from the hidden mansion from the 3DS remake (never played the GameCube version by the way). Replacing any potential hearts you get from humping furniture with poison shrooms and changing speedy spirits locations was just so frustrating for me when the new hidden mansion kept cramming so many enemies the point where I was essentially backed into a corner which meant I was constantly relying on my amiibos just to survive. I just can’t stand when hard modes in games move collectible to different locations, it makes no sense at all.
@AurumAlex64
3 ай бұрын
I think as I get older and my gaming repertoire increases, I've come to believe framing might be one of the most important things a game can do. All games are essentially just discrete chunks of gameplay (whether that be levels, or puzzles, or combat encounters), but giving those moments context is what actually gives the game a personality, a reason for existing. When I want to play a video game, I want to become invested in a setting that's greater than the sum of its discrete gameplay chunks; I want to feel like I'm actually being taken on some kind of journey. Otherwise, I might as well just sit down and play a minigame collection pack by myself for 30 hours. Skyward Sword is a great example of both really good and bad framing, especially when it comes to backtracking. I love the Silent Realms, which recontextualizes areas you've already visited into eerie, tense collect-a-thon missions. On the other hand, Skyward Sword also tests the limits of how much framing can really do. I was really not happy when Eldin Volcano decided to randomly erupt in the last third, making you lose all your items, and forcing you to climb to the summit for the 3rd or 4th time, now with additional stealth. I'm not sure if any amount of framing could've made that enjoyable to me.
@dekufiremage7808
2 ай бұрын
Y'know, I was never annoyed by the blackout or polter kitty segments but hated those polter pup segments; it really does just come down to a poor framing device. The blackout feels like the mansion itself trying to stop Luigi and the cat is overtly villainous so those feel more natural to the story. The dog's playful antics make it feel like the developers themselves are arbitrarily trying to stop you from progressing into new content. Also yes water dragon is by far the worst fucking character in the Zelda series and not enough people recognize that. What do you mean Link still needs to prove himself after doing two dungeons and collecting those worthless tad tones
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