The reason Marlene or joel don’t give Ellie a choice is because Marlene won’t accept no for an answer and joel won’t accep yes for an answer
@DavidHunter
Жыл бұрын
A good point. If Ellie changed her mind I can’t see Marlene just letting her go, it would destroy her group and their purpose instantly if she had.
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. It's frustrating that people lack the insight to be able to see both sides. Let me preface this by saying I also would've massacred that entire place, including Marlene. But I'm also objective enough see the other side. When something like the whole f'n _WORLD_ rides on the decision of one person, well guess what, you don't give that person a choice. I don't see how this is hard to understand and why people watching stupidly ask the tv - "why didn't give her a choice." Because - see my previous answer. But again, I also would say F the world. See, unbiased, I can see both sides, while still feeling completely steadfast in my [wrong] decision.
@wulfgraad3857
Жыл бұрын
@@VeraxMusic couldnt agree more
@Pandaemoni
Жыл бұрын
That's true. But on another level the real reason is that writers realized that if Ellie chose it would hurt the ending of the game. The point of the ending is for the audience to struggle with the philosophical questions of both whether (and when) you should sacrifice one life to save many more and when or if consent is needed in circumstances like these. The intellectual and emotional work is coming to your own conclusions. If Ellie stated her choice explicitly, many gamers would have said "Oh, let's do that then!" and not done the hard work of thinking through the issues themselves. Even on consent, which seems like a no-brainer (of course they should consult with her!)...first, there is the fact that she's a traumatized child who thinks she needs to make the deaths of Riley, Tess and Sam "mean something". And she hasn't really experienced much of life. Is she really able to give informed consent? There is a reason why parents make those choices for minors. Just as interesting, though...we don't always require consent irl. Take, for example, Mary Mallon (aka Typhoid Mary) was permanently infected with the bacteria that causes typhoid fever. It didn't harm her, she was healthy and never got sick, but it never went away and she was contagious. Three people died because they caught it from her and 51 were infected. So they quarantined her for a total of *_26 years._* She died a prisoner. And they conducted medical experiments on her to better understand why the bacteria wasn't harming her. All this was done without consent and very much against her will. Medical experimentation conducted against her will, and the NY Supreme Court denied she had a claim because quarantine was for the greater good. And in the show, they discussed bombing Jakarta and Boston (and other places). At the time, I thought bombing Jakarta (a city of about 10 milion people) was shocking...but understandable. Tess seemed fine with them bombing Boston, saying they "had to try something." But how many "Ellies" died? Obviously, they were not getting consent from the people being bombed. It can't be, logically, that if you kill one child to cure the infection, then you need consent, but if you bomb a million kids to slow the spread of the infection no consent is required. Emotionally, it *is* that way, of course; "one kid" has a face and is named "Ellie," but a million kids is just a statistic.
@viltar5514
Жыл бұрын
@@VeraxMusic agreed. A Man could never let his daughter die just like that, specially for joel because has gone through that once. And now he has a choice and he can prevent that, so he did. Joel may not bw the greatest sage or human, but he is what a true father is. Call it selfishness for affection or whatever but guess what? That's the world that we live in. We take, and we feed someone that we cared for.
@Addam_
Жыл бұрын
What're you going to do Joel, kill everybody? "Yes."
@piou203
Жыл бұрын
"A father's love for his child knows no law, no mercy, no limits. It could mercilessly annihilate anything that stands in its way."
@manbearpig7359
Жыл бұрын
Well it should have limits. Being able to reason and show self control is what separates adults from babies
@dizzisliving2355
Жыл бұрын
@@manbearpig7359 It should but deep down we are animals and we'll do anything to protect our kids even if it isn't the 'right thing'
@peterbabicki8252
Жыл бұрын
@@dizzisliving2355 The issue is he deceived her, and didn't give her a choice. It was incredibly possessive. Marlene and Joel were both being selfish. They should have treated Ellie with respect, and let her make the choice, but Marlene wouldn't have taken no for an answer, and Joel wouldn't have taken yes for an answer.
@jyothijose7840
Жыл бұрын
@@manbearpig7359 he actually let one go One person was running and he didn't shoot( There's romour that's abby was running hair and body looks same) But he killed the guy who down weapon Becuase there is a chance he can attack Running one can't
@manbearpig7359
Жыл бұрын
@@peterbabicki8252 Nailed it mate.
@victorewah2659
Жыл бұрын
Joel made one thing clear this episode and that is he refuses to allow his heart to be crushed and torn from his chest ever again. For 20 years all Joel has ever done is just exist and once he met Ellie he began to actually live again because he regained something he lost so long ago, and I don't imagine he intends on ever letting it go.
@peg202xo7
Жыл бұрын
The look he gave Ellie as she fed the giraffe was the look of a man experiencing happiness for the first time in 20 years. Pedro, you're breaking my heart in this role!
@victorewah2659
Жыл бұрын
@@peg202xo7 "It wasn't time that did it" this line delivered from Pedro told the audience everything they needed to know from the inflection in his voice down to the look in his eyes while glancing at Ellie. 😭
@DougHanson2769
Жыл бұрын
Sad.
@frederickeusebio5153
Жыл бұрын
I don't think Marlene would send any bullets toward Joel while he's holding Ellie. The cure means more than her own life.
@clarkmichaels822
Жыл бұрын
That's a cool detail in the first episode when Joel and Tess first meet Ellie. Joel aims his gun at Ellie, and Marlene and the other Firefly immediately aim their guns at him. He aims his gun at them and they lower their guns.
@nintandao64
Жыл бұрын
You should definitely play them! This show was made in such a masterful way that you can experience this world in either order and appreciate the differences without feeling like you messed up by doing it in the 'right order' It'll feel a LOT more natural if you play the first game and immediately jump into the second game, I feel like for a lot of people something felt off since there was a ~7 year gap between the release of the first and second game
@naiet9277
Жыл бұрын
Fun fact: Ashley Johnson,the actress playing Ellie’s mother Anna,was the voice of Ellie on the game. I think is pretty cool they used her for this role!
@amoxicilina1g138
Жыл бұрын
Es la actriz que da vida a ellie en el videojuego, no le da solo la voz, los movimientos tambien fueron capturados directamente de los actores
@Dularr
Жыл бұрын
Also the actress who played Abby played one of the nurses.
@Jimmm11
Жыл бұрын
@@Dularr and Craig Mazin the producer of this series, played the soldier who killed Sarah, Joel's daughter.
@davidcortes3399
Жыл бұрын
Más detalles, Ashley es literalmente "la madre" de Ellie, su forma de actuar, los gestos y la voz fueron cambiando la visión que tenían los directores del juego sobre el personaje. Ellie tiene ese carácter tan fuerte, es tan guerrera y mal hablada gracias a Ashley, sino hubiera sido una niña más débil y frágil
@araisikewai
Жыл бұрын
@@Dularr Spoiler alert...
@SofaKingWashed
Жыл бұрын
The Fireflies weren't gonna give Ellie a choice because they didn't wanna risk a "no", and Joel didn't wanna give her a choice because he didn't wanna risk a "yes". And in Joel's mind, after Ellie had fought so hard to save his life, there was no way, regardless of the consequences, that he wasn't gonna fight to save hers. So hyped you're gonna play the game! Explore every corner of the world in it, there's a ton of stories of the world before and after cordyceps to find. Thanks for the reactions!
@GinoGonzalez12
Жыл бұрын
He wasn’t comparing Sarah and Ellie. You have to remember he hasn’t talked about Sarah in 20 years. After the leaving the hospital he has Sarah on his mind cuz he couldn’t save her. I think that’s why he would apologize if it came off that way to Ellie.
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
I couldn't finish watching this video - but are you saying Pilar actually thought Joel was _comparing_ them?? Wow, that's a really odd perspective by her if what you're saying is true.
@204154529
Жыл бұрын
@@VeraxMusic Sometimes I want to give her the benefit of the doubt by saying it could be a language thing, but her perspective is coming from a completely different place than what most people interprit. So odd.
@vault29a
Жыл бұрын
so fuck him, right?
@Pandaemoni
Жыл бұрын
I think it's fair to internpret it that way. I didn't, but it's not _clearly wrong_ or anything. He is clearly connecting the two girls in his mind. He's having fantasies about how they'd be friends-perhaps how they'd be like loving sisters to one another-and that really could be a sign of something unhealthy, projection of his love for Sarah onto Ellie. He referred to Ellie as "baby girl" the exact same term of endearment he used for Sarah. He carried Ellie in his arms in the same manner as he did Sarah. And this time he *_saved_* Sara...er...I mean "Ellie." A lot of it comes down to the writers inserting obvious parallels between Ellie and Sarah. It may not be that they indended that to reflect Joel "projecting" onto Ellie, but it definitely *_could_* be that. We've seen Joel struggling with something akin to PTSD over Sarah's death (most obviously in Episode 1 when he beat the FEDRA soldier to with his bare fist...to protect Ellie), so we know he has issues.
@orchoose
Жыл бұрын
she said '' thats wrong '' and thats the main takeaway from that scene. Joel is rushing things up acting like nothing had happend.
@Quotenwagnerianer
Жыл бұрын
As you were asking all these rethoric questions as Joel's carnage went on, all I could do was sit here and answer each and everyone with: "Yes." "Are you gonna shoot Marlene?" Yes. "Are you gonna kill everybody?" Yes. "Are you gonna kill the doctor as well?" Yes. "This is insane!" Yes. And if you think that is a weird way to end the episode, I'm sure you have read by now in other comments that this is EXACTLY how the game ends.
@Fangtorn
Жыл бұрын
And back in the day it ended this way without us knowing there was going to be a Part 2 or Season 2, which makes it hit different too.
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
I gotta admit, her response to this was unexpected and frustrated me. And I fully realize i"m not being very objective here.
@204154529
Жыл бұрын
@@VeraxMusic She doesn't empathise with Joel and is 100% taking in what the Fireflies motivate. They themselves didnt know if it will even work. Why start at the brain when at least bloodwork could be a start.
@user-dk3pp2hj3v
Жыл бұрын
@@204154529 And who said that this is their first victim of experiments?
@Readwandx
Жыл бұрын
I hate that guy who didn’t cover baby ellie’s ears
@brenthenderson815
Жыл бұрын
Gustavo Santaolalla deserves every ounce of recognition he can get for this ost.
@rx7dude2006
Жыл бұрын
Remember Ellie said She would follow Joel wherever so she had no idea her life would be taken.
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
Oh great catch. I've seen some people give the stupid theory saying Ellie had some idea she would die, but your comment here debunks and obliterates that stupid theory. If you think about it from her perspective, there's _nothing_ that would make you think that. You'd assume your blood would be drawn, nothing more. Only we know in hindsight that surgery was required, she would've had no reason to think that, and even supposing she did, she'd have NO REASON to think she'd _die_ from said surgery.
@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502
Жыл бұрын
14:05, fun fact! the track that begins playing at around this scene is the same one that played when Joel's daughter died imo, i think Ellie knows deep down that hes not telling her the truth, but after everything she's gone through, and all of it coming to nothing now that there's still no cure, the idea that literally the only person she has left is lying to her is just too much to even think about. so when he swears that he told the truth, she basically forces herself to believe him. i also think you kind of missed the point of the scene of Joel talking about Sarah. he's not comparing her and Ellie, he's opening up and talking about her for the first time in 20 years. he's finally able to think about her and talk about her without the pain of her loss overwhelming him. the "comparisons" are just him being worried that he's making Ellie insecure and clumsily trying to backtrack.
@mconnaghan
Жыл бұрын
I'm glad you decided to play not only the first game, but the second as well. I think the odds of avoiding major spoilers before the next season(s) come out are slim. It won't hurt your appreciation of the show. I know you're a pro at this by now, but just to reiterate, you should set up major firewalls (including from comments) to protect yourself from spoilers.
@AdrianHernandez-st3pf
Жыл бұрын
15:06 koooomooo??? jajajaj
@somestranger1101
Жыл бұрын
Remember Marlene was afraid of Joel. Hell even Tommy his own brother had seen that side of him and was afraid. The one thing that has connected him to other people has been Ellie. The one thing that keeps him from becoming the monster.
@Drugbert
Жыл бұрын
JAJAJAJA 15:05 me re comí el mambo de que era americana JAJASJ y de la nada empieza a putear
@DougHanson2769
Жыл бұрын
Joel smiling while she was feeding the giraffe with such sincerity and love was heartbreaking
@Danny0dbert
Жыл бұрын
If you don't want to play the game just watch the game movie !! Been fun watching this wild ride of a show with you. Looking forward to the next series.
@pavelmyshov464
Жыл бұрын
better to play the games, then watching. It's even more immersive this way
@stephaniel2850
Жыл бұрын
That's how I got into the games as well - the movie-cut edits on youtube are wonderful 😄 (I'm just not a gaming person, and I'd tried watching the full playthrough with no commentary of the 1st game and just found myself getting *really* bored with the gameplay parts where it would just be like 45 minutes of Joel going around choking guys and/or infected out 😂So once I found the movie edits, that was way more my speed! They still have some of the gameplay that has important dialogue, but just not the stuff that's boring if you're not actually the one playing!)
@annabethchase2569
Жыл бұрын
@@pavelmyshov464 The only restriction is that the second game, the one that she really doesn't want to wait for, is playstation only right now. That's really the biggest barrier to playing TLOU2 and instead people preferring the game movie. Same for the TLOU1 until now. I watched the game movie first and then borrowed a friend's PS4 months later and then played it.
@martinmillar7137
Жыл бұрын
Hospital scene was imo one of the most beautifully crafted scenes I've ever watched..ever.
@DougHanson2769
Жыл бұрын
Gustavo’s Deep Dark Sad Music was a perfect fit in the shooting. He’s Empty! His Detached Mind (PTSD) from reality and the World like probably most people in that fearful state plus his love for her, he killed for Love. Emotional. Heartfelt ♥️
@tragicdeyz2641
Жыл бұрын
I can't claim this but I saw the best comment ever that sums this up. "The world took everything from Joel and Joel took everything from the world."
@rx7dude2006
Жыл бұрын
Joel gave Ellie a chance to actually live and be happy.
@rudy8900
Жыл бұрын
And people like Tess, Riley, Sam, and Henry will continue to die.
@SimsinWonderland
Жыл бұрын
@@rudy8900 that’s assuming the fireflies would have successfully made and distributed the cure and all the evidence points to no
@frozenharold
Жыл бұрын
Ellie explicitly told Joel earlier that very day that there was no way everything she's been through and everything she's done to getting done, couldn't be for nothing. There was no halfway with this. We finish what we stated. Joel was fully aware of what Ellie choice would have been. It's also why he lied to her about. So he doomed all of humanity so Ellie could have a few more years living in a world where she will undoubtedly continue to experience more pain and loss. He also told her doctors have stopped looking for a cure. So he robbed her of any hope as well.
@rx7dude2006
Жыл бұрын
@@frozenharold She told Joel when it was done she would follow him anywhere.She had no intention of dying and no clue it would get to that.She thought they would just take some blood and be done with it.
@frozenharold
Жыл бұрын
@@rx7dude2006 but she also said that there was no half-way with this. She would finish what she started. Also that everything she'd been through and everything she had done can't all be for nothing. Does that sound like, or does Ellie strike you as someone who would have said, "Whoa whoa whoa. I thought this was just a blood thing. Nevermind. F all of humanity." In that situation?
@golfsnake
Жыл бұрын
❤ 15:05
@davidvieira8683
Жыл бұрын
I think Ellie forces herself to believe Joel because the chance of Joel lied to her is too scary and hurtfull for her to deal with but if I had a daughter or someone that I'd love like a daughter, I'd do the same Joel did
@araisikewai
Жыл бұрын
Ellie likely knew Joel was lying, that was why she asked in the first place. But she never knew the extent of Joel's lies. She might have thought that Joel just had a change of heart and took her away.
@jackbauer5455
Жыл бұрын
Well congrats on dooming the whole world if that was a true scenario but if I had a daughter I would demand to say goodbye but I would accept letting her die because I’m not selfish like you.
@bmart73
Жыл бұрын
Just play game on easiest mode, its the cut scenes that you will enjoy the most....The second game is longer than the 1st, , and game will be releasing part 3 next year. (so maybe 2 more seasons) Also, Ellie (game) becomes Ellies Mum (show), then gives birth to Ellie(baby on show), confusing, yes?
@notmyname4261
Жыл бұрын
Part 2 is going to be made into 2 seasons apparently.
@josecrazyandproud
Жыл бұрын
Where did you hear anything about a part 3 being made lol hasn't been confirmed to even be in production
@AnthonyChats
Жыл бұрын
There isn’t a part 3 yet. There is a multiplayer game coming out so people can play against each other and there will be new missions and stories, but it won’t have anything to do with Joel and Ellie’s story.
@potatoesobrienn
Жыл бұрын
I couldn’t stop laughing during your reaction cause it’s how I felt during it when playing the game. It’s a gnarly ending. Makes for good conversation. Can’t wait to see what you think for part 2 🤣
@WillMercep
Жыл бұрын
Loved the editing. I'm gonna go back and watch more vids.
@Subbie-the-1st
Жыл бұрын
Funny how ive seen 2 people now, who havent played the game, comment on how Ellie's mom kind of looks/sounds like Ellie. Ashley Johnson, the actor of Ellie's mom in the show, is actually the actor for Ellie in both The Last of Us and The Last of us Part II videogames. Which only cements how Bella Ramsey was a PERFECT pick for Ellie.
@manbearpig7359
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. You are one of the very few reactors who at least questioned Joel's actions and did just cheer him on
@JoeVonD
Жыл бұрын
We often say that someone means the world to us but Joel had the chance to prove it.
@danh8804
Жыл бұрын
It was the Fireflies that didn't give Ellie a choice. Explicitly. Admittedly. They lied to her and put her under. If Marlene actually cared "what Ellie would want", she could have woken her up and asked her. The Fireflies didn't ask because it was the Fireflies that didn't care. If they'd had to, they'd have held her down screaming like David did, except they'd have cut her brain out. Joel may have had a doubt what she would have wanted, but Joel is also the one that her heard her, not hours before, *making plans for her future*. Absent explicit informed consent, the only rightful assumption to make is that she would want to live - same as any real world hospital would make. In theory, maybe Joel could have been convinced - by Ellie - but by the time he had gotten to people with the good sense to listen to his suggestions, everybody that mattered was already dead basically.
@iliboxic7586
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. The firefly hypocrites forced Joel to choose because Ellie wasn't able to.
@StinkFingerr
Жыл бұрын
Yes, they forced his hand. This isn't on Joel. My only complaint is that he was a clumsy Liar.
@MrPicklerwoof
Жыл бұрын
I think the point of this ending is that everything makes sense and it goes beyond what's 'right' or 'wrong'. For Joel, it makes sense to save Ellie from being murdered. It also makes sense for him to shield her from the truth afterwards. It makes sense for him to kill Marlene, knowing she was prepared to murder Elie without giving her a choice (and would hunt her down again). And it makes sense for Marlene to decide to go along with murdering Ellie, given that she was desperate to find a cure. Both Joel and Marlene did exactly what you would expect them to do and it's not really about who is more correct than the other. Their actions were already set in motion based on who they were. It was inevitable. I will say one thing though: Marlene set off the whole chain of events by losing her humanity towards Ellie, which was a terrible first step to take when you are claiming to save humanity in general.
@davidcortes3399
Жыл бұрын
Para mi es MUY importante jugar las dos partes (aunque sea en muy fácil, para no sufrir 😅) Porque interactuar de forma activa (jugando) con esa historia, ese mundo y esos personajes no tiene nada que ver con solo verlos en video (y eso que la serie es excelente) Sobretodo hay un giro en el 2 (SIN spoiler) que produce un gran impacto porque vos "tenes que hacerlo", no solo ocurre y lo miras, no, lo tenes que hacer vos como jugadora, con tus propias manos tenes que hacer que acurra, eso es incomparable a nivel emocional.
@ray24051
Жыл бұрын
People keep saying that Joel was selfish but you have to look at he and Ellie formed a bond they were together for months. She even saved his life and he started caring for her like a daughter, Joel lost one child and he was not going to lose another one. Also you have to think about it there was no guarantee that the samples they would have taken from her brain would have worked and she would have died for nothing.
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
I don't think we're supposed to consider that this wouldn't work, I think we're meant to take at face value that it would work. But still, screw that. I would do what Joel did 100 out of 100 times.
@DrWatson4
Жыл бұрын
You wanted him to save Ellie well consider her saved 😂😂😂
@Dave3Dguy
Жыл бұрын
You are right about the scene feeling weird when Joel is comparing Ellie to Sarah. It's meant to come off awkward because it implies that he is not seeing her entirely as her own person, but as a substitute for his daughter. She is like a placeholder that is holding him together. It is part of the reason he goes on the rampage. He cannot go back to being that broken person again. It is only partly about saving her. It is also a selfish decision about protecting himself from being nothing and having no purpose. Ellie is picking up on this during their hike. He is not seeing her as her, but as something vital he needs to hang on to for any chance at sanity. And that's not a healthy relationship. This is very human. Very sad. And very real. Great reaction Pilar!
@captainofdunedain3993
2 ай бұрын
Joel is not ready to lose her.
@mconnaghan
Жыл бұрын
This show demands being thought about for a long, long time. And that may be the best part.
@valen2040
Жыл бұрын
See.....this is why doctors getting informed consent is a rule and law. ^_^
@Enterprisek143
Жыл бұрын
Joel couldn't lose another daughter, especially to something that might not even work. Its an impossible choice, but in the words of tess, he saved who he could save. The Sarah talk, it was a combination of subconsciously justifying his choice to himself, and the fact he hadnt spoken about Sarah in 20 years, and the flood gates have been opened.
@JozyMozy
Жыл бұрын
"What are you gonna do if you see Marlene? Are you gonna shoot Marlene? Are you gonna kill everybody?" "...are you gonna kill the Doctor as well? A doctor in an apocalypse???" This is how I felt playing the game. I very much understood where Joel was coming from, but having to carry out his will via gameplay was something that really sticks with you. Edit- that expression on your face at the end? That was me, exactly, as I finished the game. No clue how to feel, I just knew things were...wrong! But in a good way, if that makes sense? Que magnifico reacción
@Taubi81
Жыл бұрын
People with children are 100% Team Joel, any others 50/50.
@oxhine
Жыл бұрын
Hey, Pilar! Ashley Johnson, who voiced Ellie in the game, played Ellie's pregnant mom, Anna. The giraffes are straight out of the game. I'm so glad they kept that scene in! Save for the birth scene, Joel's attempted suicide story and a final action-packed push through a clicker- and bloater-infested tunnel en route to the hospital, the episode plays out almost exactly like the game! There are no other options! Animals can't be used as test subjects because they're unaffected! Neurosurgeons are a rarity in an apocalyptic world! Humanity's existence is poised on a knife's edge. The stakes are too big to risk Ellie saying 'no'. Joel sacrificed the lives of everyone in the hospital and everyone who dies of cordyceps from that day forward! Ellie had already decided before the hospital that she would see her mission through no matter what the cost and told Joel so. She said, "There's no halfway with this." Who wouldn't sacrifice themselves to save the world? It is her sole purpose for being. To deny fulfillment of this goal is to deny her destiny. Frankly, even if she didn't want to, she should be forced to kicking and screaming. It's devil's arithmetic but how would you feel if a loved one could have been spared but for the refusal of the one who carried the cure? What supreme arrogance! The big surprise at the end of the game is when you are forced to massacre the entire medical team to advance the plot. The game doesn't move along until you slaughter them all. At that point, you realize that your POV character, Joel, is the villain who dooms the world for purely selfish reasons. Heroes sacrifice. Joel does not. Ellie knows he is lying to her but she accepts the lie out of love for her surrogate father because the truth of his monstrous, self-serving decision is too horrifying to acknowledge. The hero was the villain all along.
@NavAK_86
Жыл бұрын
Lets not forget Marlene is not letting Ellie have a choice either. She essentially lied. Ellie doesn't know she'd have to die for the cure, Ellie even says after the hospital she'll follow Joel anywhere he goes. Marlene just doesn't wanna take the risk of what would happen if she told the truth, she's being selfish in her own ways. And she says ''Our doctors THINK we can find a cure''. Joel giving up on his surrogate daughter after his loss, on an ''IF''' would destroy him even more. Would u sacrifice your daughter for a POSSIBLE cure? And can we trust the Fireflies? They aren't saints themselves. How do we know whether they'd actually give everyone the cure - what about their rivals? How do we know the cure will reach across state lines in an already broken fkd up world? So many cons to each side, which is why that ambiguous ending is a masterpiece.
@TomTomson81
Жыл бұрын
Joel and Marlene both know that Ellie would say yes. Why should Marlene be afraid if Ellie says no? She would do it anyway. She just doesn't say anything not to scare Ellie unnecessarily, like she said. It is the same situation as in episode 1 with the Fedra officer who gives the infected boys the lethal injection. Furthermore, there is no absolute certainty in medicine. No matter what it is. No doctor would give you 100% guarantees. There are always probabilities. Therefore, an "I think" is not an argument not to do it.
@clonexx
Жыл бұрын
@@TomTomson81 They still handled it completely wrong. If they had told Ellie the consequences, she would have said yes. They should have done that AND let Joel sit with her for a while and talk. Let Ellie assure Joel that she wants this and understands what’s happening. Eventually, maybe Joel would have come around and come to terms with it. It’s been 21 years at this point, what’s the difference in giving Joel a few days or even hours with Ellie? Since they did it the way they did, they removed any chance that Joel would accept it. People also have to understand that, to Joel, it’s his life on the line as well. If Ellie dies, he will kill himself, just like he tried after Sarah died. It would completely break him. So he’s not only fighting to save Ellie, but himself as well. There’s also a deeper argument that can be made that this “cure” won’t change anything as far as humanity goes. I doubt Joel is thinking about it this deeply, but all that would change is that bites would no longer be fatal. They still have the problem of tens of millions, if not billions, of infected out there along with raiders and cannibals that aren’t going to change how they operate. At this point, it’s too late for humanity to ever get back to pre-pandemic levels within any of their lifetimes or even their grandchildren’s lifetimes. People can still easily be ripped apart by infected or killed by raiders or cannibals. In essence, the cure wouldn’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. Then there’s the absolute war that FEDRA would wage on the Fireflies because the cure would give them too much power, so FEDRA would certainly try to take it from them. That’s also only if it even works, because there’s obviously no guarantee. It’s also odd that they go straight to the procedure that would kill her, the only known person with immunity, without attempting some other procedures first. The markers Marlene was talking about have to be in Ellie’s blood, there’s no reason they couldn’t start there, before just cutting her head open and removing her brain. Regardless, none of it makes Joel the good guy, he’s not. He’s squarely in the bad guy territory next to Walter White, Jax Teller and Vic Mackey. He’s a well written character, which is why so many people love him despite the fact that he’s not a good man, but an extremely protective one that can become a psychopathic serial killer if needed to prevent from losing a second daughter.
@TomTomson81
Жыл бұрын
@@clonexx You can't invent arguments that the series or the game doesn't give to make it fit better for you. The whole thing what if after the cure is completely uninteresting or the operation and whatever is done how. What matters are the motivations of the characters to do what they do. All sides agree that Ellie brings the cure. None of those involved people doubts this. On the contrary, for Joel, instead of Ellie, another child can be operated to death. "find someone else". I go along with the first point. Everything could have been handled better. But it didn't happen. However, this does not give Joel the right to run through as a mass murder. There is no justification for this.
@clonexx
Жыл бұрын
@@TomTomson81 Nowhere did I justify anything. My last paragraph made it very clear that nothing I typed before it made Joel the good guy and that he was in fact very much in the bad guy category with the other characters I listed. I also didn’t “invent” anything. They stated the cure only makes cordyceps think someone is infected, so the fungus doesn’t propagate. It doesn’t stop people from being ripped apart, since Ellie is attacked on multiple occasions and it certainly wouldn’t stop raiders or cannibals from carrying on with their business. So the cure isn’t really a cure, because they aren’t curing anyone whose already infected. At best it’s a vaccine, but it still doesn’t change the larger problems humanity is facing. There’s also nothing in the dialogue that specifies that they are 100% sure they can even create the vaccine. They aren’t exactly working in ideal conditions with huge teams of immunologists and other specialists, they’re relying on one doctor and 20+ year old, neglected medical technology. I also said Joel wouldn’t be thinking this deeply about it. It’s also fun to dig deeper into things beyond the surface level, whether it’s “what if” or not. I gave both, reasons within the confines of what we are given in the game/series and then went beyond that to logical outcomes even if a vaccine were created and distributed. There’s no harm in a thought experiment like that whatsoever, as long as that’s not all I was relying on to make a point, which it wasn’t.
@TomTomson81
Жыл бұрын
@@clonexx I also think further thoughts are great. I like to do it just as much. But you have to separate that from what was shown. A what if, can not serve as a justification for the actions of the protagonists, if they themselves do not see them. There may be language barriers, as this is not my main language. I didn't want to attack you. Instead of "you" I should have used "one" for a general statement???
@AngelTovar
Жыл бұрын
Pilar, you gotta play it!!!!!
@clash5j
11 ай бұрын
Papa Bear is going to protect its cub. Having said that, actions have consequences
@BeardiusMaximus
Жыл бұрын
This was a great show and it was wonderful watching your reaction to it. It's so fun hearing you speculate and work things out before they happen. Hope there's a season 2. Catch you for your next reaction
@Xerrand
Жыл бұрын
You say what Joel did was fucked up because he did not give Ellie a choice. That's exactly what the fireflys did as well lol. They just threw a grenade at her and Joel, and instantly whisked her away unconscious to surgery. It was grisly and dishonest beyond words, and the only mistake Joel made was leaving the two nurses alive at the end.
@negooouk
Жыл бұрын
he may not be a good man but hes a good father
@Keeshya6
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if I agree with the idea that he's a bad father for lying. Parents lie to protect their children's feelings all the time. I mean, in western cultures parents let their kids go on believing in Santa Clause for years and years, when knowing the truth about that wouldn't actually hurt them. In this messed up situation, Joel is lying as another form of protection, to keep Ellie from feeling the weight of what happened. He knows he made the choice and he's bearing the entirety of it to spare her already traumatized mind. Full disclosure with this opinion: I'm on team Joel. I don't think there were any good guys in this situation and I'd make the same choice he did. Mostly because Marlene had already admitted to lying to Ellie and leading her on, not giving her a choice or giving her and Joel a chance to say goodbye. She's also been leading a group that's been known to bomb civilians as well as Fedra, which makes me question her morals anyway. Plus, she kept saying the doctor "thinks" it grew with Ellie, "thinks" it could be a cure, and still wanted to perform a surgery that would kill the only known immune person without even trying other non-lethal tests. They weren't sure of anything AND they took away her choice first, before Joel ever did. I think that's why he felt he had no choice but to plow through them all. If Marlene had handled it differently, giving Ellie the chance to make the choice and tell that to Joel, then I'd be on team Marlene if Joel still went on that rampage. Okay... I'm done now. Lol
@charliepepper333
Жыл бұрын
Ellie’s mom IS ELLIE! (Ashly Johnson plays Ellie in the game)
@SiblingsReactandDrink
Жыл бұрын
So True!!!
@rx7dude2006
Жыл бұрын
100 percent behind Joel and have been since I first played in 2014.
@Ririten
Жыл бұрын
Subscribed to watch you play the game!
@chl8302
Жыл бұрын
Joel lost Sarah in his birthday, Ellie lost her mom on her birthday. They were always meant to be together 🥲
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
And I wonder if the events of this episode were actually occurring on Ellie's birthday?
@tri-c5737
Жыл бұрын
Word of warning that part 2 is only on playstation at the moment. It's predicted to come to PC at some point but only the first one will come out on March 28th.
@saadesigner07
Жыл бұрын
yes, you should play them. Love both games.
@pedrodionisio8789
Жыл бұрын
"she kind of looks like Ellie" que graciosa....me encanta que lo veas todo por primera vez. Parte 2 será una locura.
@arifismayilov7826
Жыл бұрын
He did everything right. They didn't give him and Ellie choice, nor he did
@MurlocBerserker
Жыл бұрын
I must say I'm enjoying your reactions. You're one of the few people that is actually flabbergasted by Joel's actions instead of endorsing them. What he did is 100% understandable but also immensely fucked up. I can't wait for your season 2 reaction and I think you really should play the games even if you're not a gamer. They are an incredible piece of media that everyone should experience.
@zimvader25
Жыл бұрын
Ellie is 14yrs old. It’s silly to give a 14yr old kid the choice to sacrifice themselves over something that may or may not even work. And yes, i know the creator said it would’ve worked but he could literally say any nonsense and it’d be just as irrelevant. In this world, in this particular moment, they have no guarantee it would’ve worked and the fireflies weren’t going to just give it away if it did, either. The only thing Joel did wrong was lie to her in the end.
@thrummer1953
Жыл бұрын
My only complaint is that He was a clumsy Liar.
@ernieojeda
Жыл бұрын
Ellie’s mom on here plays Ellie’s voice on the game. And the nurse. One of them played Abby on the second game. She’s going to be a big character next season
@DougHanson2769
Жыл бұрын
“”It wasn’t Time that did it.”” Emotional Dynamite. 😢
@catenystrom6506
11 ай бұрын
I'm 100% with Joel. You don't take someone's child and kill them. Ellie is a traumatized child, people forget that. The decision is for Joel, not Ellie. HE is her father now and he knows he won't survive losing another daughter. She can make the decision if she were an adult but she's not. He won't sacrifice his child for the off chance this 'cure' might work.
@ferchucabrera6146
Жыл бұрын
After what they went through together, Joel opens from his armor trying to convince Ellie not to let her go. It was already part of her life. She tried to make Ellie understand, but Ellie was willing to make her sacrifice. emptiness that he was born to protect and he was failing, he goes blind and taking out everything that is between him and his objective. To see that girl who was worth his life for whom to fight without reasoning if it was the right thing or not
@ethidian3444
Жыл бұрын
I just want to say there were a lot more people in and around the hospital that Joel didn't kill. Those two nurses would just be the two closest witnesses to what happened. But in the sequence where he goes on a rampage it showed at least one person escape, an unarmed person with a backpack running.
@gastonvacherand1430
Жыл бұрын
So i guess theres two kind of people in this world
@GraymTrain
Жыл бұрын
'What's Joel going to do, find some way to warn her?' Huhuhuhu great react!
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
lol, that's new. I haven't seen anyone think that that was Joel's plan.
@Aurich88
Жыл бұрын
I think the hiking scene really emphasizes the selfishness of Joel's choice. When he's yammering like everything's fine it makes him seem kinda psycho. You could almost defend his actions if he did it for Ellie, but they make it clear he did it for himself. When Ellie's trying to tell Joel how important it was for all those people to have died for a reason he doesn't really hear her and cuts her off to tell her to move on, it's almost like the scene with the preacher who says "That part of your life is ending." For Joel, though, Ellie "decides" to believe him (even though she can't). After all, it's only the people we trust who can betray us.
@R0NINnoodles
Жыл бұрын
Welcome to the Global Debate of 'Did Joel make the right decision?' Its been an unsettled issue since the release of the game June of 2013. For the last 10 years fans of the game have been arguing both sides. This is what makes 'The Last of Us' so damn compelling. As a lover of games and movies/tv alike I'm so glad this story was brought to a live action adaption for others to experience it. Just so everybody knows whenever seasons 2 and 3 air...stock up on kleenex cause season 1 (part 1) is child's play by comparison.
@luciatcheche
Жыл бұрын
me encanta cuando le sale el argentino
@the_eaglefan
Жыл бұрын
Great reaction. Having played the game I knew this was going to be a very unsettling finish. I like how they showed it here as in the game after spending many hours getting to that point it kind of plays out like you're the hero. I'm glad they didn't paint it in that light here. These last two episodes show what is closer to the Joel from the game and from those 20 years since the outbreak. He's definitely an antihero. They couldn't have asked her (with this ending in mind) as it seems clear she would have agreed based on how she felt about everything that had happened. If they had and he does this he goes from possible "savior" to complete bad guy. Ellie's mom was the one who voiced Ellie in the game. Also, one of the nurses was someone who played a key character in the 2nd game but I won't spoil that. Thanks for another great video.
@matthewcooke3327
Жыл бұрын
Fireflies gave Joel no choice , once they refused to give Ellie a choice , he couldn’t undo what he did to save her …
@BeastModeGaming2013
Жыл бұрын
My advise is play the first game, but don't play the 2nd game & wait til after Seasons 2 & 3 to play the 2nd game avoid all spoilers, trust me girl, confia en mi. :) Also he left 4 people Alive, there was 3 nurses in the room & 1 firefly soldier that ran away down the hallway that Joel didn't get to shoot in time. :) Fun fact: lady that plays Ellie's Mom in this Episode is actually The Legendary & Queen herself the one & only Miss Ashley Johnson, she's the voice actress for Ellie in both video games. :)
@golfr-kg9ss
Жыл бұрын
Well on the plus side Joel and Ellie both survived the episode. Quite the moral conundrum. I like the idea of asking Ellie if she's willing to sacrifice herself but what if she says no? I don't think the Fire Flies would just let her walk. Also there's no guarantee that what they want to do will work and she may die for nothing.
@jotwee63
Жыл бұрын
Yes, definitely play the game :)
@ss-ek9ru
Жыл бұрын
Well done, i have seen all the reactions on youtube, you are the only one get it. Dont forget what Maria said to Ellie. Ez sub. PS she doesnt believe him.
@Wvaspartan
Жыл бұрын
One of the nurses in the back was played by the voice actor who voices Abby who is in Part 2 of the Last of Us game… Laura Bailey
@Macktube
Жыл бұрын
There's gonna be a lot of people suffering in the world now but Joel did what he did. The 2nd game is a Masterpiece but don't read the comments when u play cause people will try to spoil it and make you hate certain parts just play it on your own and experience the story
@TTuning7
Жыл бұрын
I hope you are going to do gameplay of the game, but if not, enjoy it a lot! and one thing, the second game is only available on ps4/ps5
@sanshine4717
Жыл бұрын
Like someone said in the comments, he wasn't comparing sarah to ellie in a weird way. Joel hasn't talked about sarah since she died, and now with what happened on the hospital he was reliving all that trauma. Which you can see in the way it was filmed and edited, his stare, the silence when he kills each person, his face again in the elevator, realizing what he did. Later on when he was walking with ellie, it's the fact that he could save ellie, unlike sarah. So he just finally allowed himself to let it out and talk about her. Not comparing, but thinking how she and ellie would have gotten along so well.
@clarkmichaels822
Жыл бұрын
He sees them both as his daughters who never met each other. He also never talked about Sarah so Ellie has literally no idea who she was as a person, which is what Joel is trying to share. It's a type of therapy for him. He can finally remember Sarah outside of her death but as the person that she was when she was alive.
@VeraxMusic
Жыл бұрын
I can't believe that's what she thought Joel was doing -_- .
@sanshine4717
Жыл бұрын
@@VeraxMusic I mean, it can be misinterpretated. Even joel was apologizing to ellie in case she thought he was comparing, so it's not so far fetched that she thought that way
@joeokabayashi8669
Жыл бұрын
I hope you will be there for the second season. I have enjoyed this journey with you covering this series.
@Zizibleu
Жыл бұрын
The show was great, the game is legend. I hope you play it, I hope all your followers are patient with you because it is quite hard.
@Griffnix
Жыл бұрын
Marlene's biggest mistake was letting Joel walk out alive. She knows what kind of man he is. It's why she had him take her in the first place. As soon as she as she saw any hesitation from him that they weren't on the same page, she should have had Joel offed. I get Marlene let him go because it was her way of paying him back for bringing him to them but she should have known what would have happened when he went from not caring about Ellie when they first met to not wanting to have her die here.
@RogueJyn
Жыл бұрын
Long time fan of the game. After needlessly over analyzing the game I agree with Joel's decision to save her. And now with the very first scene in the first episode it kinda confirms what I thought. There's a good chance Ellie would have died for nothing because creating a cure for a fungal infection wasn't 100 percent possible. And yeah, the ending in the show is identical to the game, Joel's actions have consequences in the second game
@intensemk1381
Жыл бұрын
How is it selffish when he chose ellie and he knows he will be haunted with the choice the rest of his life and he didnot share the burden with ellie
@NPA1001
Жыл бұрын
The “Okay” …. she clearly does not believe him but she has decided to say that she does so they can continue their relationship in some form.. but it is never going to be the same as the lie is going eat away at it until to comes to the surface.
@deboraharroyo3047
Жыл бұрын
Yes they should of given Ellie a choice but neither side did, Marlene just put her to sleep and wanted to kill her basically and Joel did not want to lose another child. And a old saying came back "the world took Joel's daughter away from him and he took the cure away from the world," also the ending spilt the gaming community between parents and non parents. Sure it's " selfish" but then I propose the question to you if Ellie was your daughter and you traveled and survived the way her and Joel did and you made it to the hospital and took her from you and told you that she was going in for surgery and would not survive what would you do if it was your daughter and or son.
@joepike1972
Жыл бұрын
4:23 She is the voice actress who played Ellie in the video game.
@florenciovillanueva2906
Жыл бұрын
I feel like, even if they did get permission from Ellie and she agreed knowing she would die, that wouldn't change what Joel does. He would still kill everyone and lie to Ellie.
@punishedfist
8 ай бұрын
Hey! Did you play the game? I looked and dont see any videos. Thank you for this series it was fun to watch :)
@Debrutsideno
Жыл бұрын
That is such a brilliant business by Sony & HBO. It brought the story to a new audience. If you don’t want to wait for season two go pick up the game TLoU part 2. I feel like it is going to get a boost in game sales and PS5 console sales since it’s currently exclusive to PS4&PS5. If you can I highly recommend playing on PS5. Even if people play the second game between now and when the second season starts they will still come back to HBO to watch the next season. It just seems like really smart business.
@ener11454
Жыл бұрын
Always remember the pregnant woman is the youngest sister from Growing Pains. That is Chrissy Seaver and nobody else!
@thecustomconcern
Жыл бұрын
The thing I really enjoyed about this season is that they tone down Joel’s violence compared to the game so for those who hadn’t played the game, would not suspect what Joel is fully capable of. He would scorch anything on this earth for Ellie.
@happycatyoutube
Жыл бұрын
All of your emotions you went through, I had the exact same feelings when I played the game when it first game out and still feel the same everytime I play it 😅 and YES! You should play the game!!
@alexcanal4272
Жыл бұрын
Si no te sientes con confianza de jugar siempre puedes ver algún walkthrough del juego, igual te recomiendo jugarlo. TLOU es un claro ejemplo que en los videojuegos también hay grandes historias dignas de una serie o película
@aguy2162
Жыл бұрын
I really liked your reaction. New sub
@kennycooper294
Жыл бұрын
definitely play the first game
@dearkazuscorner2549
Жыл бұрын
¿Igual deberias probar el juego? Ya sé que no eres "gamer", pero igual sería la mejor excusa para probar ese mundillo? Vale la pena Pilar, la serie la ves, pero si juegas el juego, literalmente serás Joel. ¡Durante más de 20 horas! El grado de "attachment" que llegas a coger por los personajes... está en otro nivel, en serio!!! jejeje edito porque al final del video ya dices que lo vas a jugar!!! Que gran noticia!!! Es una experiencia increible!!
@yetanotherhma2
3 ай бұрын
In all off this in our world she is a child so a guardian
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