This was a pleasure to help with (apologies for any and all inaccuracies, the mississippians aren’t my specialty) 3:40 it says 100ad, this is incorrect, a typo, perhaps on my part, it should say 1000ad.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Thanks again for collaborating with me my friend! And appreciate the edit -- I was going off of your notes, but not at all to worry. I thought 100 AD was pretty remarkably early!
@Grevnor
5 ай бұрын
Finally a North American civ! It was a pretty blatant blank space on the map. 🙂
@Ivashanko
2 ай бұрын
The Mississippian Mound Builders are a fascinating culture, and I'd love for them to get more attention!
@lorddervish212quinterosara6
5 ай бұрын
I think the Algonquin would make a good civilization too. They even survived well into the modern age
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
They were definitely very impactful during the colonial era. I just have no idea how much they were doing before like 1500 AD. If you find any evidence that they had impact before the colonial era, please let me know! I would love to see
@EL-os6yg
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava they were the "skrealings" that the vikings encountered. For possible wonder look up the dolmens of New England.
@EresirThe1st
3 ай бұрын
They weren’t far north enough to be Skraelings. Leif Erikson landed in Newfoundland.
@gurugru5958
3 ай бұрын
@@robbylavaYeah, that's the issue with a lot of these North American civs.
@stelmosfire1202
14 күн бұрын
The portaging mechanic for canoes would also be pretty cool for Viking longships.
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
Heck the mongols are one of the most beloved civs in the game despite most of their buildings and such being ahistorically made to fit into AOE's playstyle.
@Imperiused
3 ай бұрын
Instead of Woodhenge, I might suggest Serpent Mound as the wonder instead. The Serpent Mound was built by the Hopewell - a cultural predecessor of the Mississippians - but I don't think they'd be significantly different enough to justify their own AoE2 civ, so they'd be a candidate to fall under Mississippians as an umbrella civilization. Serpent Mound is just a bit more visually impressive than Woodhenge, and the latter could still be incorporated into the design of the University or Monastery building I think.
@robbylava
3 ай бұрын
That's not a bad idea at all. The purist in me doesn't love the idea, but you are absolutely correct it would be much more visually interesting. I will absolutely put it down as an option. Thanks for the suggestion!
@matthewjohnson3656
Ай бұрын
A note on demo ships- historically gunpowder wasn’t used on demo ships. They were loaded with burning tar and hay and stuff and then pushed downwind into enemy fleet to catch them on fire. Realistically in game the demo ship should apply a damage over time effect to everything in its radius- with maybe a mechanic so that if a villager repairs it, the over time effect is shortened.
@robbylava
Ай бұрын
Yep, exactly right. And they were usually called Fire Ships, which throws a bit of a wrench in the game's current naming conventions! Absolutely going to be talking about this in detail at some point down the line.
@matthewjohnson3656
Ай бұрын
@@robbylava most excellent.
@magtag6879
2 ай бұрын
Late to this party, but campaign thought: start playing as the Lady of Cofitachequi AND the SPANISH doing the terrible murdering and destroying and building up Spanish forces until you can escape and then have to fight against the army you built.
@robbylava
2 ай бұрын
That's actually a really cool idea! I could see that being a great way to implement it, though it may hit the El Cid problem of feeling a little weird to players as the primary representative campaign of a civilization when you swap civilizations partway through. Still a great point! Love the concept.
@bjarkekiaer
5 ай бұрын
Great build as always, Robby and YummmeCrab! It's definitely a whole lot different than anything else in AoE2, but very interesting and lots of cool features. It maybe feels a bit more like an AoE3 civ, what with the many regional/unique units and techs and various buff abilities. But AoE3 is fun, so no problem there at all. A couple of notes: 1) Feudal Age castle - and a free one to boot - sounds like it could potentially be very strong, but might also be easily countered by rushing it down. If need be, it could have less HP in feudal, like towers and stone walls. 2) Ambush Tactics: Now you see me, now you don't! This sounds like it'll have a very high skill ceiling, and maybe not too useful for less skilled players. It could potentially be quite fun to play around with, though. I certainly had fun with stealth in AoE3 back in the day (I don't use it now for some reason). 3) Buildable elevation: Hill Forts! You mean to say it will be possible to build nice little banks to place walls on? The city planning players are going to have a field day with this! If it'd prove impossible to implement, it could perhaps be changed to all buildings not taking bonus damage from elevation or counting +1 to their elevation or something like that. 4) Boarding Rafts: I can just picture how it'd be played: Weaken the enemy ships with galleys/canoes and then send in a raft or two to trigger the takeover. The rafts are pretty much going to die if you so much as sneeze on them, so they'd probably be kept out of combat except when needed. Like a pack of piranhas circling their prey. And then the opponent would have demo ships trying to blow them all up in one go. Sounds fun! Also, does the enemy ship specifically have to be reduced below the 40% threshold by a raft, or can it be hit at any time after that for it to work? 5) Birdman Dancer: This one is awesome! The Polynesians and Mississippians can have a dance party. It'll also be very good in a battle - a 20% boost to attack speed is quite good. They'd probably need it too, given how weak their military seems to be. 6) Mound Burials: Do units specifically have to be killed, or does any loss of unit count (i.e. delete)? Overall they look like a rather weak civ with the big holes in their tech tree. It looks like they'd rely a lot on their special units/techs to be viable, so we'd have to wait and see just how effective they could potentially be. Maybe some kind of permanent bonus added to each use of Maize Domestication would be nice, like -5/10% food cost for units. Still, given how unique they are, they'd be very interesting and fun to play with. I certainly won't say no to more dance units. Thanks for the build! edit: Formatting
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
What a wonderful review, it's always such a treat to hear from you Bjarke. I completely agree with your assessment that this civilization relies almost entirely on its uniques and regionals in order to have any chance at competitive viability. I'm sure if someone with less focus on historical accuracy wanted to take a crack at this one they could probably do it more concisely, but you know me! In any case, I'm very glad you like it, and honestly I'm quite glad that you think it's on the underpowered side. Tells me that I didn't go too overboard with all of the wacky stuff!
@smaoproducts
5 ай бұрын
Hell yeah! I’ve been waiting for this one as well! AoE2 needs a couple North American civilizations in the mix and this would be the ideal one to start with, especially with their unique style of pyramids and mounds. I love the way you fundamentally designed them to have their own mechanics and set of units. Would add a really rich flavor to the game! Keep up the great work as always my friend! 😃
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Extremely kind of you to say! As always it's a treat getting to see you in the comments.
@ahmicqui9396
5 ай бұрын
Yaaay, more American civs! Keep in mind Hernando de Soto's expedition eventually got completely defeated by the Quigualtam/Natchez people... I still gotta send you the Meso architecture rework concept I have saved somewhere...
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
DUDE I would absolutely LOVE to see that!
@cranmzvg
5 ай бұрын
Always happy to see native american civs getting some love. Perhaps someday the Chimu, Muisca, Pueblo and Mapuche civs could make their way into the series
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Pretty much all of them besides the Pueblo are on my list for sure! And I might be convinced to do more beyond that even.
@earl.c
5 ай бұрын
Not now, son, I'm watched Theory Thriday!
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
YOU KNOW, just you saying that kind of makes me want to shift release for these to Thursday!
@Thermoh
3 ай бұрын
I really like this content. I would love to see Mapuche Theorycraft 😃. Congrats for the job.
@robbylava
3 ай бұрын
Awesome to hear man, thanks so much for watching! And that's a great suggestion, many people have recommended the Mapuche in the past, and they are definitely high on my to-do list!
@oldmanyellsatscreen
5 ай бұрын
It's funny, I was wondering what a Suomi/Taiga region umbrella civ would look like, and the faster moving archers plus free ballistics combo is what came to mind, but I could definitely see it working nicely here.
@jthfear
3 ай бұрын
loving these videos. just had an idea for possible civ bonuses for future civs, dont know if you've used them before: -garrisoned units increase research time -as soon as reaching x age, first tech researched costs no resources or is instantaneous (useful for power spikes to suit the game or individual playstyles, and catching opponents off guard) -an 'aegis' like unit with no combat stats but autocompletes tech, can be used on allies -in keeping with sun tzu's methods of misinforming an enemy, how about a trash unit with awful stats but looks identical to a powerful one (ie paladin)
@robbylava
3 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for saying so! I'm so glad you're enjoying them! I have done things very similar to most of your ideas in other videos (not to dismiss your suggestions whatsoever, but in case you're interested in checking them out): - The first one I had something similar both in my very old Umayyads/Syrians and more recent Scots videos - The second one I've also done I think a few times, but the most memorable one was my very old Romans build (before the official one came out) - The fourth one I did something rather similar to in my much more recent Telugus But your third idea is not something I've ever done before! What a cool proposal. So you're envisioning it kind of like a scholar or something maybe? Thanks very much for sharing your ideas!
@jthfear
3 ай бұрын
@@robbylava yes, like a scholar, quite expensive but slow moving. the idea being a team floating lots of gold can just 'buy' techs quickly, and the enemy has to focus on killing the scholars first before attacking their military (which has real world validation), and to incorporate that sometimes time is a more valuable resource than gold or stone. i like unconventional tactics and would like to see it incorporated in the game more; sure their are civs with straightforward tactics (goths? ok so im gonna get spammed with infantry. britons? spammed with archers), but id like to see a civ where you have absolutely no idea what your going up against! ill check out your other vids soon, love to see underrepresented continents get suggestions. keep it up! found you through SotL, subscribed.
@robbylava
3 ай бұрын
@jthfear exceptional idea. I will put it in my notes! Fantastic to have you as a subscriber! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on future designs.
@fernandoandradecerna3362
5 ай бұрын
I believed that I was the only crazy person who ever thought in the Mississippians
@ahmicqui9396
5 ай бұрын
Nuh uh!
@fernandoandradecerna3362
5 ай бұрын
Also, have you ever thought to create a concept for the Tlaxcalans? They were know to join the Spanish, so they can be the only mesoamerican civ with access to horses and gunpowder
@ahmicqui9396
5 ай бұрын
@@fernandoandradecerna3362 they are basically covered by the 'Aztecs' though...
@AEGISAOE
5 ай бұрын
@@fernandoandradecerna3362 tlaxcala 'civ' already exists in aoe2 mods
@Crossil
5 ай бұрын
I always thought the Mapuche would be a cav native civ, as they managed to survive the initial Spanish conuests and actually field cavalry.
@CyberDrewan
4 ай бұрын
I think if they had a civ like the Mississippians, they’d want to include at least 1 more NA civ to give at least two civs with the same architecture style, and so that they can mix up civ choices in the campaign. I think a key part of a NA civ’s viability would be heavily dependent on if they could use similar resources to build a second civ.
@robbylava
4 ай бұрын
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately I've had quite a hard time determining another North American civilization that I think, even with substantial stretches, could fit for the game, but I think I found one that is interesting enough to explore in more detail! Hopefully I'll get to a showcase it on the channel someday soonish. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
@CyberDrewan
4 ай бұрын
@@robbylava No problem! I’ve really gotten into your channel after Spirit of the Law mentioned you in a previous video. This some excellent speculation, and I love the research you put into these! Keep up the good work!
@CyberDrewan
4 ай бұрын
@@robbylava I’m excited to hear about the civ! It wouldn’t happen to be the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois), would it? I know they are at their peek in the 1600s, which is your cutoff for what you consider the Middle Ages ends, but I was under the impression that no one is really aware of when the actual founding of the Iroquois confederacy began (a cursory search seems to indicate that they could have been around for at least a hundred years before they were contacted by Europeans in the 1600s). As far as campaigns, the obvious one would be the founding of the Iroquois Confederacy, or the Five Nations. However, since Hiawatha and his allies were attempting to found the confederacy in a search for peace, it might be a little awkward to play as him. I could see a neat alternative being playing as Tadodaho, who is often considered the “villain” of the story, who wants nothing more than to keep fighting. You could have a campaign (or maybe just a historic battle) where you battle other tribes, but at the end, you have to bring Tadodaho to meet with Hiawatha and the Peacemaker, similar to how Atilla’s campaign ends, but with a little more conversation.
@robbylava
3 ай бұрын
Fantastic! I got a huge influx of awesome new subscribers from that shout out, very glad to have you now! That's a great guess, but I actually had something else in mind, pretty much precisely because the Haudenosaunee were only relevant at the VERY tail end of the time frame. But there's a chance I will tackle them as well in the future as well! Your suggestions for the campaign are excellent though, the idea of playing the villain in it is quite compelling to me! It's something I've suggested in several other campaigns as well for various other civilizations.
@Giagrus
5 ай бұрын
Really liked the regionals. Nicely done on the regionals. Also liked the idea of Maize domestications giving more population space.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Excellent! Thrilled you enjoyed, and I'm glad you like the population boosting idea. A couple of other people have said they liked that too, so maybe I'll revisit it.
@gurugru5958
3 ай бұрын
Argh, I'm so mad! I took multiple cracks at the Mississippians (I called them Cahokians), but I never came up with as clean a mechanic for their moundbuilding as your villagers building elevation! That adds a great dimension for defense that can really buff your archers and buildings in the defense. I agree; way too many regional/unique units. I really like the idea of Mississippians swarming the map with castles. Feudal Age castle... man, that's so bold. I feel like it could be problematic, where a successful castle drop early on is an auto win, and a castle in the base inures you to raiding.
@robbylava
3 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed those elements! And I can see your concerns. If it ended up proving too strong I would of course be happy to nerf it, but I feel like this civilization needs to be oriented towards the early game to really succeed, given the humongous holes they have in the late game.
@gurugru5958
3 ай бұрын
@robbylava That's fair. Maybe it would even out if Feudal age castles took a very long time to build, so it would be easier to fend off a castle drop and possible to disrupt a case being built at home. Depending on how long they take to build, it could effectively be just like building a castle several minutes earlier than other people at the expense of a lot of labor.
@SethGreve-g1m
5 ай бұрын
Nice build, i do think the castle bonus is really over powered though. Free agressive castle drop in feudal age is almost unbeatable. I personally would make the cost halved for first castle or something like that.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed! Do you think that the castle is too scary even with the dramatically slower build time? I did the math out and it seemed really, really unlikely to ever be worth it to do a forward castle given how many villagers you would need, how easy it would be for your enemy to fight you off of the castle, and how many resources you would be wasting while your villagers walk all the way across the map to build it.
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
I feel like Cahokia Mound itself would be the wonder. Maybe have a version of woodhenge for the churches.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Not a bad idea, definitely respectable. I liked keeping the mound for the castle model, but the way you describe could definitely work too.
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Good to note that there are A LOT of Indian mounds, and and there used to be far more before settlers destroyed a lot to clear the land for farming and to loot the artifacts within. Having the largest Indian mound be the wonder and then having a smaller mound as a castle would work fine imo.
@sylkabe6780
5 ай бұрын
A bonus I just thought of : why not having the castle get a discount based on the elevation of their placement. The higher the castle is, the less it cost to build
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Insanely cool idea. I think my concern would be that it would be a lot harder to take advantage of than my current Mound Burials idea, but if someone did a bonus like this I would definitely not argue with it! Could maybe fit with another civilization that had some sort of elevation theme.
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
The Tlingit Tribe in northwestern canada were known to build forts, including a famously large one during a war they had with Russia. They had two piece helmets made of solid carved hardwood, and even made armored vests out of leather with Chinese coins sewn on to work as a sort of mail.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I've heard a bit about these guys! To me it sounds like they are the second most plausible North American candidate. Did they really have forts?! I knew they had armor, but Castle building is a very, very good sign for their viability!
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Yup, a few years ago they even found the one the built to protect themselves from Russia. It had a full palisade wall 250x165 feet surrounding 12 large buildings. Normally their forts were smaller, and they would use them for shelter during seasonal migrations.
@Xastor994
5 ай бұрын
There is another potential official appearance! The Drake scenario from V&V 😅
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I completely forgot about the V&V scenarios... I think I just might keep it that way though lol
@epicseadragon1692
5 ай бұрын
Cool! I was one of the people who voted for this build and I'm not disappointed! I really like the ability to actually modify the map in-game (and if that concept is ever to happen, I guess some variations could happen for some naval civs to get to "craft" water tiles). I was going to comment about that one thing that I don't know how it would be implemented but I remember now that sometimes building foundations do modify the elevation level... so why not! I'll spare you from my usual comment that it needs to be balanced carefully, you know that 11... But I WILL make the comment that I want that team bonus to be implemented and that combined with either Tatars or Georgians, it's going to be LIT!
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Oh yeah, that would be an insane combination! Assuming of course it ended up being able to be balanced heheheh I'm really glad you liked how this one turned out! I'm very pleased with it myself.
@mojungle3054
3 ай бұрын
That symbol is so wrong. We all KNOW the REAL Mississippian sigil is a horizontal tricolor with a Rebel Battle Flag in the corner 🥴🤡 Jokes aside, I've been to the Etowah mounds in Georgia, definitely worth a visit if you're in North Georgia
@SIGNOR-G
5 ай бұрын
Cant wait to see you return on the italian city states. Lots of possibilieties there.
@edgarnany
5 ай бұрын
ficou muito bom. aguardando teorias e conceitos de outras civilizações norte-americanas
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Obrigado por dizer isso! Espero trazer mais para você em breve.
@Dubistgenial
5 ай бұрын
I find it great, I hope it flies
@AEGISAOE
5 ай бұрын
pretty cool bro. there are 2 mods who have this civ: one is a DE mod called aoe2 civ concepts llc and age of eagles, first one was i think introduced over 6 years ago and the other one was just 3 or 4 years ago. I think there are also some tournaments vids on youtube from them
@AEGISAOE
5 ай бұрын
LLC mod has dutch, afghans, polynesians, tartars, bantu, mississippians, thai, helvetians, nubians, kanembu, iraquois, chola, caribs, georgians, nepalese, khazars age of eagles mod has incas, chimu, muisca, tupis, iraquios, cahokia, lenca, thule, mapuche, taino, inuit, mississippians, puebloan, tlaxcala, zapotec, tarascan, portuguese and dutch
@nomemories130
2 ай бұрын
There definitely need to be more new world civilizations. Canari, Musica, Teotihuacan and Olmecs are possibilities as well. A Caribbean civ maybe the Arawak.
@diegoramirez7901
5 ай бұрын
Gotta love the ambush mechanic and, as a civil engineer myself, the earthworks bonus for those little sappers.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Heheheh hell yeah! Now that I think about it I should have consulted you for that mechanic
@diegoramirez7901
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Any time you want, free of charge lol
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@diegoramirez7901 You're a generous fellow!
@pierrotnasse
5 ай бұрын
the idea is amazing, but dont think the game nor the devs are prepared for the Very Out There Ideas, considering the huge changes necessary to adapt for north americans, pre columbian civs (or south american non-Inca pre columbians civs, or more sub sahaaran civs) also in great expectation of how you're going to rework the docks
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Really glad you like the idea! I totally agree it's a complete long shot, hence the 1/10 I gave it at the very end, but hey, we can dream!
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
The Pueblo peoples with their mud brick buildings could also be a good candidate. Look up "Montezuma's Castle" (the aztecs didn't build it, but I guess settlers though that the name sounded cool).
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I've been recommended them before, but from the perfunctory research I did it felt like a much tougher cell than this civilization. The main thing for me was that they didn't seem to have nearly as organized of a military, which is pretty important for a game focused almost entirely around training a colorful and varied army. Do you know of any resources I might be able to use to learn more about them?
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava There's a channel called Ancient Americas that is a tremendous resource on pre-columbian native american societies, including military aspects.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@jamesm1 Nice! Do they seem rigorous? If they include their sources then I would be VERY interested
@Rob_Fordd
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Oh yes, he straight up includes his sources and FULL bibliography in the description of every video (the bibliography on his most recent video, which is about north american bison and the plains people is 13 pages long!), he even has original art and charts made, etc... The videos are long form, he does serious academic research, not pop history; truly a tremendous resource. Another good channel with shorter videos on more specific native stuff is Malcolm P.L. He has even made a fully functional replica of the wooden suits of armor that the peoples of the Pacific Northwest would outfit their champions with until gunpowder weapons showed up.
@EL-os6yg
5 ай бұрын
I always thought the best Mississippian campaign would be the rise and fall of Cahokia, a bit like the Bari campaign. De Soto would be a secondary Spanish campaign where the conquistadors finally make sense. I did some own research and civ concept for the Mississippians, I am very curious where you found your posible ai names. I would love to see the Mississippians in game, the more I learn about them, the more I think they can fit. (also, go look up Malcom P. L on KZitem about wooden armour of the north Americans and how surprisingly strong it was, except against gunpowder...)
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I'm becoming more and more convinced of their viability as well! This build was very fun for me to do. The AI player names all come from my collaborator, Crab. I'm pretty sure they were all semi-prominent settlements, since finding names of people was next to impossible. Not an ideal state of affairs, but it felt like an okay compromise.
@EL-os6yg
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava when I look up the Maiden of Etowah or Daheaga, I can't find anything useful, do you know the source Mr crab used?
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@EL-os6yg I linked all the sources he sent me on the Civilization document in the description of this video, but I believe he had a bunch of other pre-existing knowledge as well. Take a look in those and see if you find what you're looking for, and if not let me know and I'll try to help get you some more
@AEGISAOE
5 ай бұрын
5:06 american civs will be so weak compared to european ones, they have to do buff HP and cost and stuff like that to make it more realistic. Would be crazy to see them with trebuchets , lol
@javikus
5 ай бұрын
Good job bro!
@ivanstrydom8417
5 ай бұрын
Mississippians/North American civs As ever, I enjoy reenacting historical events, wars,campaigns,battles and skirmishes by means of DE2. Thus any civ that had interactions with at least two or three other international civs I feel is suitable to add to the game. The North American civs for me work perfectly with DE3, for in that time period numerous European Factions had extensive interactions with the North American peoples. During the Middle ages, the only civs these North American peoples interacted with, was other NA tribal factions. So if they ever get added to the game, I will be happy for the people whom are interested in them, but I just have no desire to play as these civs. At most I will play up to 10 battles with differing NA factions battling one another , but that will get old quite speedily. Although these NA civs will be dead last on my requirement for civs to be added to the game, I will be happy for those persons whom do relish this part of our worlds history. I don't like the ''head taker'' at all. Unarmoured, club wielding infantry that trounce most ''Elite'' units of other civs whom all had the top of the range armaments of the medieval era, I loathe that. The ''Chukey player'' I would rather just intertwine with the already in game Skirmisher. (Bonuses for Skirms) All of the other aspects of the civ, I like.
@jacywilson
3 ай бұрын
I have always heard that the mounds were essentially tombs to burry the dead. Is that an old myth? Or maybe just situationally true?
@tyranitararmaldo
5 ай бұрын
Surely that intro would be funniest with the Vlachs? :P Also there is a potential 2nd North American civ, the Shoshone. Who by the very tail-end of the Middle Ages, were using heavy cavalry. Cataphract-style units with deer-leather armour have turned up.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
NO FRIGGIN WAY. Really?!? You have to give me more details about them! How on earth did they get horses? And where were they based?
@tyranitararmaldo
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava No problem! I will give you everything I know. Keep in mind, there is still a lot of debate around timings for this, as records for the North American Middle-Ages are sparse. Shoshone are an ethnic group that covers several modern tribes, much like the Mississippians (one of which was the famous Comanche). They were located in the Great Basin and Great Plains. Their language was Shoshoni, which diversified into variations later on. During the Middle Ages they were much more unified than when settlers arrived. As for horses, it's believed that they got them via either trade with Aztecs (who had gotten them off of the conquistadores they either traded with, killed or had left without their mounts) and/or from the Pueblo Revolt in 1680. The Comanche especially took to the horses well, using them as cavalry archers, light cavalry and even heavy cavalry. The latter I can show an artist's impression of, with some information: www.artstation.com/artwork/g2bZZQ While 1680 is outside AoE2's timeline...it's about what I would consider to be inside of a stretch. It's still pre-settler, and some parts of AoE2 have pushed the timeline before, like the Romans and Hinged Hussar. I have had a few ideas for a hypothetical civ with them. Notably they would have a stable, but no knight, just the Scout Cavalry line and Husbandry & Bloodlines. The UU would be the "Comanche Cataphract", and despite having Scout Cavalry, would still start with the Eagle Scout, to represent them not starting with horses (but unlike other American civs, wouldn't have access to Elite Eagle Warriors, to push their cavalry play).
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@tyranitararmaldo oh I see! Yes, I know them by the name Comanche. So my serious concern with them is that I draw hard cut off for Age of Empire civilizations at 1600 AD, and I've only ever bent that by about 5 to 10 years further for like one or two campaigns (and even for those there was a viable cutoff at or before 1600). I think going well beyond 1600 actually pushes the envelope a little too far. And that's ME saying it, the ultimate pusher of the envelope! And so if you can find any evidence of them having impact before 1600 hits I would be very, very interested in hearing more.
@tyranitararmaldo
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava I will add that the Aztec element does push them having horses to before 1600. But the issue is that it's speculative, so it's more "do what you think is right". From a game perspective, an American cav civ could be interesting, and wouldn't need to jump through hoops to place that part of their tech tree. But it's up to you :) Also to clarify, the Comanche aren't all the Shoshone, just one group of them in the larger Shoshone umbrella.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@tyranitararmaldo Good clarification, thank you. I'm not sure I would personally want to push the time frame that far afield, but if I end up ever going beyond the AOE2 time frame even by just 100 years these guys will be top of my list. Really appreciate the recommendation!
@Jallorn
5 ай бұрын
Well Robby, this civ is very caway... I'm sorry. Love the boarding raft as a solution to navy for non-gunpowder civs. Don't have good ships? Take the enemy's ships! Don't have real strong impulses on the war canoe. Headtaker is neat, make me think of TF2's Demoknight when wielding the Eyelander, and so if this ever gets implemented in any manner, I'll want to see a reskin mod. I sorta feel like there should be a unit that can remain hidden from Ambush tactics- perhaps with increased detection range, but the ability to actively sneak up on an enemy and benefit from that dodge bonus on the offensive as well as the defensive feels like good design space. Not saying the Mississipians need it, but someone should have such a unit. Building elevation is wild. Like, that's a whole extra layer of fortification construction you can engage with. Kinda want to suggest incorporating this into buildings more directly, rather than a whole new build command sort of thing, like when you complete a building it automatically raises elevation by one stage, or all buildings count as one elevation higher than they are. Maybe just if building elevation on its own proves problematic though. I might move the free castle bonus till later? Like, in Castle Age you get a free castle? Also, I feel like this bonus could be used to push a fast Imperial build- though as with any fast age ups, getting there is only part of the challenge- then you have to actually invest in the opportunities the age provides. The extra speed when moving away from nearby enemy units is dope, and I'm amused at the idea of getting an enemy melee unit to chase yours so they can more easily catch the kiting archers. Does this have a limited range? It should probably have a range condition. Yep, guerilla warfare neat. Free ballistics is nice, good defense, good archer bonus, always fun to have. It is at this point that I reconsider the free Castle bonus being delayed- the infantry speed bonus is neat and gives a specific playstyle encouragement but isn't super powerful, and both the guerilla warfare bonus and free ballistics show up later. I actually think the free Castle in feudal is probably necessary. Hmm, I have concerns about the caway scout- being both slower and weaker than other scouts is not an amazing place to be vis-a-vis dark age scout fights. Also I don't like the selt. Not because the design is bad, but just because every time you say it I have to repress the urge to correct someone's pronunciation of Celt. Mechanically, and I think this was your intention, but it got lost on me because I see the eagles as having a couple other roles besides, the selt is an anti-archer and raider infantry unit, and in that role, I think it fits nicely. Chunkey player- neat, seems like a very influential unit to include in an army comp. ...Soooo many UUs, heh. Wait, hang on, not a single one of these UUs is built from the Castle? Oh, no, wait, the caway is. Got it. So, an opt in monk replacement that can also fight, is faster, and has a temporary banner effect? That's a lot going on in one unit. Should I assume it doesn't convert? I think it might be worth adding a farm production speed increase to Maize Domestication as well, since other civs can reach that limit as a permanent collection rate, and this is temporary, I feel like it ought to really push the limits of speed. Mound Burials is... I love it. The flavor is top notch and the bonus is exciting. Imagine an insanely long post-Imperial slog of a fight. There's no stone or gold left, and then the Mississipians just start building another castle, because 100 units died, so it's free. At this point, the impression I have is of a defensive/raiding civ, needing to leverage surprise to really secure a strong push. The skill floor seems rather high, (though the free, early castle pulls it down a bit) since there's no major eco bonus (Maize Domestication requires more thought/intention than most) until maybe Mound Burials, and there's no real standout powerful UU that forms an obvious army composition backbone. That said, the skill ceiling is probably pretty high with the guerilla warfare luring tactics and (depending on the tech tree specifics I haven't looked at yet) an ability to adapt to most army compositions and then leverage good timing to win fights as if that army composition had specific bonuses. Now looking at things, missing halb is going to hurt a lot, imo. I suppose pike is still totally viable, but still. I did forget about the headtaker, which probably helps make up for some of the missing power in halbs- especially if you can keep a few alive to grow mightier. Oh, does the retreat bonus apply to archers? Thought it was just infantry. Nope, yup, says Foot Soldiers in the doc. Alright, that's actually a big boost to kiting power. Missing crossbow and all that archer armor definitely hurts and further emphasizes the need for a mixed army comp. Yeah, that siege confirms their role- not a lot of big destructive capacity. Yup, pretty much what I thought before looking at techs- a weird, hard to master but also hard to fight against civ, with some clear tactics, but not a super clear route to victory aside from attrition and timing.
@Jallorn
5 ай бұрын
RE: Uniques and Regionals: It's kinda necessary. Maaaaaybe it's a little heavy for vanilla, but considering you already want to expand regionals, esp. for Mesos, I think it's called for. I don't know that it'd be right for this civ, but a mechanic where infantry gain a temporary attack bonus when there's fewer than X friendly units nearby and an allied units dies might be neat. Hard to describe, but neat. Could also consider a one-block dodge shield when a unit is switched from attacking to moving away from the enemy (probably with a cooldown). I... kinda love the idea of Maize Domestication boosting pop potential in some way. Add that back, that's exactly the sort of bang I feel would make this civ viable late game without requiring insane micro.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
What an amazing review! I don't even know where to start. I think your suggestions for Maize Domestication Make a lot of sense and I will strongly consider them, and I did at one point heavily consider changing the elevation bonus to having buildings in some way produce it but it ended up being a lot more logistically complicated than building it (somehow). Any other bits of feedback that you want to draw my attention to? Apologies if I forgot any, you had so many great points in your comment that many fell right out of my head.
@Jallorn
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Mostly just the concern about the caway scout being maybe too vulnerable in a scout fight in the dark age. If it loses in fights and can't run away, that might be an issue.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@Jallorn A valid concern! HOWEVER, That's where the retreat speed bonus kicks in! The Caway has a very bad attack delay and a low rate of fire, so if it stands and fights or tries to hit and run it's going to get obliterated, but if you just run it away it will almost always be safe! I did run the math, for what it's worth, though there's a very high chance I was slightly off with it. I do think it wouldn't be too disadvantageous though! You'd have to be very comma very careful about taking scout fights, but you wouldn't just be immediately dead if you are caught out unless you were cornered
@BloodyQShark
5 ай бұрын
This very bizarre choice for Ambush Tactics Dodges mechanics because the definition of ambush is a surprise attack why not give them an attack bonus or more fun the unit attack will have a slow effect to represent disorganized trips because of surprise.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I see the idea, but I thought dodges would be more compelling, since they also represent the disorientation and also will help your ambushing forces take less damage, which to me felt like a very important upside of ambushes that I wanted to capture. Plus, damage bonuses are very overdone in my opinion.
@PhoenixAlaris93
5 ай бұрын
If I would add another North American civ, it’d probably be the Pueblos (or Anasazi as they’ve also been called)
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I looked into them a little while ago and didn't find nearly as much as I did for this particular civilization. There are a couple of other North American options I'd love to pursue down the road, but the Pueblo felt like they weren't quite viable just based on what I saw.
@PhoenixAlaris93
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava I guess I was thinking of the fact an old AOE2HD mod had them as a civ... though I am curious on what the other options are
@acarrot589
5 ай бұрын
Love your videos. Hill building is cool. Would it be too easy to lame rival boars with archer Chagüay?
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
I think they might be one of the better laming civilizations, but only so long as the enemy scout can't catch them! They are slower and weaker than the other scout units and would get torn to pieces by them and a one versus one fight, especially with a boar involved.
@acarrot589
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylavaNice, I assume as scouts they're not able to kill deers either.
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
@acarrot589 that was the intent, yes
@Crossil
5 ай бұрын
Oy, what are you doing, making civs with no appearances to list..... well, if you left it at just these guys, and don't include others, like the Iroquois. In which case there's like 3, thanks to Vinlandsaga, Karlsefni (also has the natives, but as Boethuk, iirc) and theoretically Drake, if they make the Carribean and Florida natives into their own faction. Still, architecture could be based on Iroquois and other latter native settlements. Also, this is one of those factions where a fully fictional campaign isn't out of the question. You could make one that covers topics like interactions with Mesoamerica and the arrival of the Europeans. Also, there is a boarding galley in the game. It's a hidden unit that was added to the Drake scenario, modified to be a hero unit, but it does showcase how they'd work, blocking ships from moving away while being converted.
@gustach6167
5 ай бұрын
good 2nd Unique Techs. Castle in feudal will be broken, maybe -3 range and it have 50% HP, so can be destroyed by man at arms. Too many uniq units, archer -good (or maybe some cheap fast running steryotype "chief" who can do multipl healing and range attack), and converting ships good. rest - no need. 1st Uniq tech can be 1 time use and like "+10% farming speed, double near water" . Team bonus - stupid and broken, due to how it works in game, insta win in 2v2 with spanish(lol) who do castle on HG and demolish u faster then ever. Team bonus can be uniq like , "infantry +3 vs villagers" or " castle garrison +5" or " hunting also (like 10% convert on top) give gold" or " houses builds 50% faster" Ambush tactics too complicated, and need do upgrades (so no needed timings) - it just can be +25% dmg too attack above enemy LOS ( crossbow will nuke knights, its good for american civ balance) or even dont give "ambush" bonus and speed . Just archers move 10% faster will be greate and uniq. Maybe add any eco bonus, like -100 food going into feudal (so u can mine stone faster) just my honest opinion, its often Theorycrafters do imba civs, so need it push down a little
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for your input! Really glad you found some stuff that you could enjoy. My philosophy as a designer is always to push the boundaries, and I've actually had quite a lot of commenters saying that they think the civilization would be notably underpowered funnily enough! But if you're after more conventional builds, I'm happy to say that I have something on the channel plan for the not too distant future that you might really enjoy. Stay tuned!
@pierrotnasse
5 ай бұрын
i do wonder what music you used in the background
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Linked in the civilization document if you want to go look at it! Can't remember it off the top of my head, but I'd highly recommend giving it a listen.
@Grevnor
5 ай бұрын
Too many regionals and uniques? On the first build of an entire region? Surely you jest? 😁
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
We are of like mind on this point!
@RLDragonStrider
4 ай бұрын
So can you like spitball and hypothesize separating the Bulgarians and the Volga Bulgarians and doing one of these on the latter?
@robbylava
4 ай бұрын
Excellent suggestion! You're the first person to ask for something like that, I will throw it on my list of to do's
@RLDragonStrider
4 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Legit suprised no one else asked. Thanks. Keep up the good work and hope you can get to that soon. A further suggestion would also be Trebizond, a nice mix of eastern and western units.
@robbylava
4 ай бұрын
@RLDragonStrider thanks very much for saying so! And another fantastic suggestion, I really wish more people would talk about Trebizond
@RLDragonStrider
4 ай бұрын
@@robbylava Dang shame. Trebizond has the foundation of being a really interesting civ. Flexible perhaps a mix of naval and archer/cav or naval and infantry. Are you also going to try and tackle the Byzantines like you did with the Persians? I feel like they Byzantines can benefit from a slight improvement. Maybe even a second UU.
@robbylava
4 ай бұрын
@RLDragonStrider I absolutely do intend to! It's near the top of my list, in fact.
@kriskronkle5203
5 ай бұрын
do you live in a cabin bruh wya
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Hehehe I've been told my office looks like a sauna yeah
@danielalejandrobarramartin5193
5 ай бұрын
Headtaker is too op... Need a revisit
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Why do you think so? My current design is modeled off of the Shotel Warrior, which isn't OP by any metric -- much better than that unit against elites, but also much more expensive, longer to train, and dies pretty hard to trash by my approximation.
@danielalejandrobarramartin5193
5 ай бұрын
@@robbylava it's give me ninja Vibes
@robbylava
5 ай бұрын
Interesting! Could you elaborate?
@stfnknbb
Ай бұрын
Do a dock rebuild video! Vanilla dock is so boring haha
@robbylava
Ай бұрын
Definitely will be at some point!
@erikdw8379
5 ай бұрын
First!
@konradpyszniak976
3 ай бұрын
I like the concept but man that civ is OP. I think almost all your concepts as fun as they look like, they are very unbalanced. It would be fun for 1200 elo but for me 1700+ i cannot imagine that powerspikes like free balistic (there is a reason that certain ablities are given for free to any civ). Even with smaller range the pro like Hera would kyte you to death and win every fight. Castle drops in your face with all 30 vils you have in feudal with premade elevation. Impossible to counter in certain scenarios. Castles are opressive and that's why devs reduced the frank castle bonus in castle age. Look how their winrate dropped then- they are no longer rank1. Some things are hard to micro - for example for Norvegians the ability for UU to build ships. As cool as it is, you wont use it later game because it's easier to build 10 docks, make 3 cliks and queue 20 ships. Late game is very micro intensive and you need to keep that in mind to balance the stuff. That's why Poles are hard to play because it's difficult to place correctly folwark farms while so many things going on around. That's also why civs like Franks, Romans, Hindustanis are so high in the ladder. The bonus you get for free and doesnt require any micro from you is always better because doesnt take your APM. Overall balance should also be around 3 maps: islands, arena or arabia and civs should be design around those maps in specific to be playable.
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