Hi everyone, thanks for pointing out that the city behind Alleria in the keyart is Dalaran, I just mis-spoke! The point I'm making fits dalaran much better, after all :)
@georgemihai1744
Ай бұрын
Also 10:42 she says " but in the years that followed ". Cant be hundreds of thousands obviously.
@MikeBenko
Ай бұрын
A wall carving like that is called a "relief".
@c.b.-
Ай бұрын
A lot of the visuals for Xal were veeeery similar to the _Scarlet Witch_ in the 2nd "Doctor Strange" movie. Given that the director was horror-director Sam Raimi, it seems like it is quite fitting.
@GreyGramarye
Ай бұрын
When the Queen turns her down and Xal’atath shifts focus, Tali mentions her having already laid the groundwork with the princess… but she may not have. She apparently had that whole conversation with the Queen in an instant, with time frozen. The same could have happened with the Princess, even possibly mid-conversation with her mother. Which makes it even creepier IMO; she could have gone into that conversation intending to reconcile but then Xal’atath convinced her the only option was matricide.
@GiovanniBoss
Ай бұрын
Which would be a rather nice "part 2 cinematic". XD
@mattphoenix4702
Ай бұрын
I had the feeling she was actually talking to Ansurak the entire time, and she had Neferess there to prove the point that she would never take the kingdom forward, so it was time for Ansurak to take her hand and become queen.
@moonchild4648
Ай бұрын
I think that Xal'atath speaks to her after the queen says she was talking to "ghosts", Ansurak gets this really creepy smile right after that, and she starts saying that she's not sorry. Also, she looks genuinely confused when she asked her mom who she was talking to.
@cyberbanshee
Ай бұрын
Blizzard created such an amazing villain that I felt the some kind of twisted pride when I saw this video. "It was I who freed her."
@1Forn61
Ай бұрын
Voidweavers assemble soon we shall bath in the Eternal Night \o/
@Maira-sorn
Ай бұрын
shadow priest goes "I will follow her to end, long live Xal’atath"
@zoemarsh8518
Ай бұрын
And I was happy to!
@stinkyrat758
Ай бұрын
Hey Tali: art nerd here. The Art in the City of Threads dungeon you love so much would be probably considered a "Relief". Fresco is usually a type of paint thats painted on still-drying plaster (think Sisteen Chapel) - releief, like the Lion Hunt relief at the British Mueseum, is a sculpting technique that makes an image look 'raised' from it's background of usually the same material. From the depth seen, I'm thinking this is a Bas-Relief or a low-relief or a high-relief (I havent played the beta)
@GiovanniBoss
Ай бұрын
It really looks like a high relief, not a low one, to me. Assuming the translation from my mother language to English is literal, that is.
@scaicool
Ай бұрын
Basrelief is a strong reference to Lovecraft work which would be VERY clever considering old god lore.
@HatMachine
Ай бұрын
@@scaicool Right! Wasn't the city in "At the Mountains of Madness" covered in bas-relief murals? It's been a long time since I've read it.
@scaicool
Ай бұрын
@@HatMachine yes. And R'lyeh as well!
@stinkyrat758
Ай бұрын
@@HatMachine Oh my god how did I not make that connection 😰 yooo
@Haalaine
Ай бұрын
The reason to my understanding that it HAS to be from BFA is that Nerubians, as depicted here, didn't exist during the original collapse of the Black Empire. The Nerubians (and the Qiraji and Mantid) didn't diverge from the main Aqir until after the Troll-Aqir war that happened well after the Titans arrived (and also was itself spurred by Xal'atath), so while Blizzard could have this be from before that point, having the kingdom be a NERUBIAN kingdom rather than a general Aqir kingdom would be going against their existing lore timeline.
@Haalaine
Ай бұрын
And to expand on the other note of knowing about Xal'atath - I'm sure a nation as developed as Azj'kahet, and especially the elite of the nation, would be very well educated, and for how prominent Xal'atath seems to have been during the Black Empire I wouldn't at all be surprised if Queen Neferess was taught of a figure such as the Harbinger existing and when Xal'atath begins to reveal herself in the flesh to her the dots connect in her mind that this isn't just some random ghost, it's THE Harbinger. Plus plus: the next line is "in the years that follow"; if Blizzard wanted to give the idea that this was eons ago, why wouldn't they have had the line been "in the millennia that follow" or "in the ages that follow" instead?
@CaiRobinson
Ай бұрын
Thats my understanding to, that the nerubians were created as they are today post the black empire
@1Forn61
Ай бұрын
@@Haalaine Yup thats my take on it aswell. Im sure we gonna learn more over the course of TWW. As Their City will be a vocal of Point of the Expansion after we cleared the Raid.
@TheHugos94
Ай бұрын
was going to write this up. Seems I was 2 hours late
@terribleterrier1685
Ай бұрын
The Mantid answered the call in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms Assaults. I also lean towards thinking it was end of BFA. The Mantid told us when their gods returned, they would answer the call. I feel the Nerubians are the counterpoint to the Mantid.
@arthurmussi9897
Ай бұрын
To those saying ansurek is teenage elisande,they are not the same! Elisande only joined the burning legion because she only saw futures where the legion always wins,in her mind she joined the legion to protect her people...ansurek on the other hand,wants her people to be the master race and conquer all,she is way more evil then elisande
@frankielofaro4778
Ай бұрын
Why did Talie say Silvermoon at 20:30? Thats dalaran
@Omnimonism
Ай бұрын
yep, that's Dalaran.
@sashapaliukh7689
Ай бұрын
The pic is Dalaran, yes, but the fact of falling shadow is about Silvermoon. Void will attack the city in midnight
@Skyfuck
Ай бұрын
Yeah and fits with his thinking bad things are coming
@slymcfly123
Ай бұрын
2nd expansion is about the Voud attacking Silvermoon.
@Skyfuck
Ай бұрын
@@slymcfly123 True! But TWW opens with Dalaran being destroyed, so Dalaran's downfall is a little more relevant at present 🤫
@theWEIR
Ай бұрын
The one thing that sticks out for me in the timeline question is the line, "There is much for you to learn before you can be queen." If that first scene was 100s of thousands of years ago showing Ansurek as a child, what the hell has her mom been doing not teaching her whats needed to be queen for all that time? The 7 year gap would be a little easier to rationalize the lack of wisdom gained by Ansurek. The immature zoomer nerubian princess falling for the voids tricks seems easier to take then the 100k+ old nerubian princess acting and being treated like a child.
@regalgiant1597
Ай бұрын
Cringey obsession with parent issues from Blizz, again.
@LordAJ12345
Ай бұрын
Also, the narration says “in the years that followed“, not “in the millennia that followed“ or something similar. It just doesn’t really make sense to have that be the line if it’s supposed to be much much later
@Commander_Pandashan
Ай бұрын
Maybe there will be answer to it... In the game who knows 🤷🏻
@1Forn61
Ай бұрын
ye
@kaitlynschoudt7779
Ай бұрын
Something that is easy to overlook when it comes to fantasy races with extended lifespans is their age of maturity. Its touched upon in their own universes, like in LotR, but we don't know much about this race in WoW. Who's to say this is not hundreds of thousands of years ago, and it takes much longer for their "frontal lobe to develop" so to speak?
@EdBurke37
Ай бұрын
Taliesen's Razor: All other things being equal the coolest answer is most often the correct one.
@nono7105
Ай бұрын
It's a blunt razor though. Because he's wrong.
@Z_F-P_22
Ай бұрын
@@nono7105yeah but if he didn’t miss the nerubians not existing pre-fall of the black empire, it would be a fun razor to go by
@nono7105
Ай бұрын
@Z_F-P_22 Yeah, but in my experience, it never works. Whenever I've speculated about some unknown lore and said, 'wouldn't it be cool if ...' it has invariably turned to shit in the worst possible way.
@cxfxcdude
Ай бұрын
In storytelling? Yeah it could be. In this instance i feel it may not be correct but hey
@dangingerich2559
Ай бұрын
2:16 "That would be like us having tiny, little feral humans running around" That's not too far from describing mice.
@davidfields5375
Ай бұрын
We call them children
@dangingerich2559
Ай бұрын
@@davidfields5375Well, children aren't feral unless you're a really bad parent.
@SunniestAutumn
Ай бұрын
MICE ARE HUMAN?
@Amaryllon
Ай бұрын
@@SunniestAutumn They're not actually *that* far off, genetically. That's why they're used in medical research.
@tenaciousgamer6892
Ай бұрын
some cities even have monkeys running around, Which might as well be our cousins.
@HawkknightXC88
Ай бұрын
So this is how Xal'atath is the cosmic horror that she is today. If her eyes don't scary you her movement out of the walls is.
@MatthewNewman
Ай бұрын
It just reminds me of the Crunk shoulder angel/devil meme
@ziggs123
Ай бұрын
That's what mages and locks secretly dream to be with their weak magic. That's why they hate on us shadow priests consistently. They hate us because they ain't us. SP should always be above those borrowed power wizards in any scenario, anything else isn't lore accurate.
@Paveway-chan
Ай бұрын
@@ziggs123 Cope and seethe, at least we HAVE portals and utility 🤪
@TheDannyschoofs
Ай бұрын
Now I want a Ringu movie with Xalatath/Knifu/Xally XD
@moscanaveia
Ай бұрын
@@ziggs123 The only borrowed powers are from shamans, druids and priests, brother. Warlocks especially fuel their magic with bits and bobs of victim's souls. You can call it stolen, but when I slowly flay your soul to chain my Demonic Tyrant, and when his magic expires I rip out his soul and hurl it at you screeching and burning, you'll feel differently
@warmwaterpenguin
Ай бұрын
Something I love is that establishing shot immediately after the tight in on the spider with the hanging structure suspended by webs. It feels like the missing link between the Black Empire temples and obelisks, and the scourge floating Ziggurats. Like sure, we're talking different nerubians, but it just fills in a little architectural language in a way we see all the time in real from cultures and commerce and connections and conquests, but that takes real development and consideration to capture in fiction. Even if you don't notice or think about it, it subconsciously just adds this layer of credibility when a world pulls this off. Also it looks like an egg sac, which is way less important but equally evocative and cool.
@roninhare9615
Ай бұрын
I have a different theory on the “Beledar”. Let’s take a look at the mural, it’s strange to me how the mural of the crystal encased in gold, looks like the star of Azathoth from lovecraft. Interestingly enough, when Azathoth is nearing, you can hear a Symphony of flutes, also, in lovecraft, Azathoth created Cthulhu, translate the inspiration to wow’s interpretation, this is the song of a void lord, the same void lord that created C’thun(inspired by Cthulhu) and it’s now that this crystal is starting to react to “something” we are hearing the nearing of a void lord in the guise of the radiant song. When I looked at how chronicle book 4 showed the “Beledar” specifically from the top and bottom, how sound affects the frequency of its shape. Which got me turned on to the idea that the “Beledar” is actually a gate, a portal. To where you ask? Well the data mining of the beta may have leaked that. The final raid of this expansion has been listed as “K’aresh”, this gate will be opened likely using the blood of the old gods and something todo with the hidden 5th old god. We will give chase to Xal’atath on K’aresh, and while we may win the fight/raid, we will lose the opening leg of this war, as the void come pouring out of the “Beledar”. With the end cinematic of the war within, leading us right into midnight and the invasion of shadow and void. Of all the places Xal’atath could have appeared out of the mural, she opens a portal on the “Beledar” forshadowing the void coming through the gate.
@MaemuraLonewolf
Ай бұрын
Love this theory!!
@autumnleaf2263
Ай бұрын
Oh I love this and I think you might have hit the nail on the head. Can't wait to see if you're right or not.
@sdrs2713
Ай бұрын
Final Raid is listed as "Ethereal Raid" not "K'aresh."
@EliasBlind
Ай бұрын
@@sdrs2713 Karesh is the homeworld of the ethereals.
@Lockecole81
Ай бұрын
@@sdrs2713 It's being thought that we'll get a final patch with zones similar to Argus with the final raid being there as well
@InfestationPony
Ай бұрын
"Are you seeing this shit, Ansurek?" Sorry I have to do it
@sebonesiful
Ай бұрын
Isn't that Dalaran and not Silvermoon in Alleria's background?
@TaliesinEvitel
Ай бұрын
@@sebonesiful you are right! .... Uh oh
@sebonesiful
Ай бұрын
@@TaliesinEvitel meh, what's the worst that could possibly happen, I mean, it's a magical flying city full of wizards....I wouldn't worry
@ShalThuzar
Ай бұрын
@@sebonesiful Khadgar "reading the scripts.."
@c.b.-
Ай бұрын
@@sebonesiful been wanting a void-version of the Karazhan raid. Something where you're fighting on the ceiling, the raid-party is split up, and your enemies could just as likely be simple vermin, because you've been shrunk - or - titans, because you've suddenly found yourself in the clouds. Ever since Tali started explaining the Black Empire, I've been hoping for this. 😅
@mathiasthorndal9218
Ай бұрын
One thing I haven't seen anyone discuss is that the "higher evolution" of the nerubians is one that is strikingly more humanoid in appearance. The true origins of the mortal races and the truth of the curse of flesh has been called into question multiple times in the past years, so could that be intentional or is it just an artistic choice because we automatically see humans as more advanced than bugs?
@raymondward2035
Ай бұрын
And this is why Xal'atath can twist bodies to look like that
@moscanaveia
Ай бұрын
I found it funny you should phrase it like that. "I haven't seen anyone discuss their humanoid form". I actually made the mistake to read the comment section of Asmongold's reaction video to the cinematic and one of the most common complaints by the incels over there (other than the gender of the characters involved) is just how Blizzard replaced the scary spiders with scrawny humanoid forms.
@c.b.-
Ай бұрын
@@moscanaveia I'm unsurprised by Asmongold's audience. Disappointed, but not surprised. It makes sense that the void would warp their minions, because all the greater powers do so. Fel and Light have definitely both been shown to change the individuals who embrace that power. (I mean, the orcs were the first gamers had witnessed, via fel blood.)
@usernamedove
Ай бұрын
Blizz just made them humanoid so they can be made an allied race #copium
@Spippie_Sugarfuse
Ай бұрын
While I would love it taking place during the first fall, one small detail that makes it hard to think so, is that the nerubians didnt exist until the aftermath of the troll wars when a subsect of the fleeing aqir settled in what would be northrend after the sundering , after being chased there by the drakkari. and later evolving into the Nerubians with their proximity to yogg-saron
@Spippie_Sugarfuse
Ай бұрын
Funnily enough , said war was started by Xal'atath's meddling
@robertsmith4830
Ай бұрын
The coversation between the Queen and Princess reminded me so much of the confrontation between Lucille and Lady Waycrest at the end of the Drustvar levelling campaign albeit with some role reversal.
@Gui2356
Ай бұрын
20:21 i pretty sure this isn't silvermoon, but Dalaran..... Right?
@sonnyliston3762
Ай бұрын
Was coming down to make this exact comment
@silverchoweez
Ай бұрын
Yes, it is Dalaran. Don't know how he confused the two, but it clearly is Dalaran.
@watchman6671
Ай бұрын
That is definitely Dalaran and falls under "What super obvious thing have I got completely wrong, because there's always something".
@Juulben
Ай бұрын
Yup, that's Dalaran
@mikki6158
Ай бұрын
@@silverchoweez Pretty sure he was talking about Silvermoon because it's been stated that the void will attack Silvermoon in Midnight.
@lindadelorme4259
Ай бұрын
Her smile is " Attack on Titan" creepy
@cyndrigaming
Ай бұрын
Definitely "smiling titan" vibes, but not as creepy as Yelena still LOL
@jugler07
Ай бұрын
Made me think of the Babadook myself, with her perched on the shoulder looking down at the object/camera/us.
@alyssumn3884
Ай бұрын
Made me think of death note as well!
@jugler07
Ай бұрын
@@alyssumn3884 I can see that yeah haha
@alyssumn3884
Ай бұрын
@@jugler07 the smile is very Ryuk lol
@Bzk--
Ай бұрын
I love your channel and have watched your videos for years now, but my favourite content has to be these analysis. They are so well thought, well spoken and narrated, and you make it all come togheter. I've never commented under one of these but this time I wanted to take the time to thank you for the incredible work you do every time a wow cinematic comes out, a work I always look forward to check out.
@islatubular
Ай бұрын
It is, without question, the end of BFA
@splashmok
Ай бұрын
I don’t know how Tali didn’t catch that Nerubians didn’t exist during the black empire 😭
@thomas00129
Ай бұрын
also we never saw the mother actually die just getting stabbed so she may still be alive somewhere
@Fervus18
Ай бұрын
After playing the beta, I say this comment deserve a like.
@ololadin91
Ай бұрын
31:10 - void corruption made them more humanoid. As stated by Neltharion in the book he corrected (found in the vaults from Dragonflight), all flesh was given by the old gods. In the same book its confirmed that 5 oldgods were imprisoned by the Titans (Y'shaarj was killed and because of the destruction it caused the remaing ones were imprisoned). So we officially have 6 oldgods (1 killed by the Titans and 5 that were imprisoned) on azeroth + G'huun (which was an experiment and didn't have a titan prison like the others). So 6 oldgods or 7 if you count G'huun. The one on the wall in this cinematic doesn't look at all like the one from the chronicles painting - so thats probably our answer who the remaing 2 are.
@robertb1633
Ай бұрын
Personally, I believe the cinematic happened recently as opposed to ancient history. My reason for this is the Queens daughter - she's a child in the beginning, and seemingly little more than a young adult by the end. You can see this in the way her hair has changed - it's still short and capped as opposed to the wild mane of her mother. She's positioned as young, impetuous and still having much to learn before she can be queen. So, unless Nerubians take hundreds of thousands of years to mature, I'm confident we're dealing with recent history.
@raymondward2035
Ай бұрын
I liked the possibility that Nerubian maturation depended on social stimuli rather than just time, kind of like how changes in the compression of a colony will affect changes in particular ants. That way she only matures at the rate required by her queen or colony, which may take thousands of years. But yeah, I think the scene happened at the end of BFA.
@BobMerlinx
Ай бұрын
She still acts like a young adult towards the end, sure, but it also feels like her physical appearance has changed a bit too much to only be a few years. (But I'm not an expert on Nerubian physiology, so...)
@isiseungella4688
Ай бұрын
There is no better way than to start your Friday than with T&E deep dive. 5.30 am and it drops in Oz so you quickly get your day started and 6.30 am, here I am with a hot cup of tea, enjoying it after expecting it from the moment the trailer dropped.
@CanadianManeuvre
Ай бұрын
@20:28 Regarding the sepia tone stuff, it's also the colour palette of a sunset. The thing that ushers in darkness. Maybe that's a stretch for the old Black Empire, or not if this choice is a somewhat subtle hint that the Black Empire was only ever here to prepare the world for complete darkness ... the arrival of the void lords. Sepia tone, or sunset colours, makes you feel that darkness is just around the corner. That the whole world is about to fall into darkness. *chefs kiss*
@galadrigal7644
Ай бұрын
Aren’t Nerubians ancient descendants of the Akir from the black empire era? So that would likely make this event much sooner.
@Red1Green2Blue3
Ай бұрын
Correct, the Nerubians didn't exist during the Black Empire.
@moscanaveia
Ай бұрын
Ansurek is displayed to be far younger than later in the cinematic. Her growing so much in just seven years would drain some of the potential weight her character would have, for not being thousands of years old but just a couple decades
@Red1Green2Blue3
Ай бұрын
@@moscanaveia How do you know the life cycle and maturation rate of Nerubians? In any case, it's irrelevant. Nerubians ***did not exist*** during the black empire. It's impossible.
@moscanaveia
Ай бұрын
@@Red1Green2Blue3 I know, but things have been retconned before.
@Red1Green2Blue3
Ай бұрын
@@moscanaveia No where is it stated that this has been retconned.
@Kammithekiller
Ай бұрын
I like the idea that she warps a body to fit her persona- its just like when the Hero of Cyrodil becomes Sheogorath, and no matter what you looked like, by the time we see them next in Skyrim, he is back to his dapper cheese loving self, the hero's body having shaped itself to suit the prince persona.
@yanivcassuto4198
Ай бұрын
One of the best cinematics' analysis you posted. Incredible and informative. Thank you so much.
@archermahou8910
Ай бұрын
The first scene being 100,000 years ago makes the whole thing really funny. Queen: You aren't ready yet, daughter. Your time will come. Ansurek: But mother, my age has hit six digits!
@jakubpelikan2393
Ай бұрын
First scene is during BFA.
@jaymzOG
Ай бұрын
It makes more sense for it to have happened in BFA.
@mesmedor
Ай бұрын
my god can you imagine having a teenager at home for thousands of years. That poor mother
@TheSilverwing999
Ай бұрын
Which is why it didn't happen 100.000 years ago. But funny bit
@austinsebben1402
Ай бұрын
It's just nice to have a villain not drowning in grim solemnity, that's definitely why I liked Denathrius
@Beer_Wolf
Ай бұрын
Her coming out of the wall reminds me of the Demon Wall from the Final Fantasy series 😅
@jklroxmysox111
Ай бұрын
And this cinematic passes the bechdel test, which is great.
@Whalebelly2239
Ай бұрын
I am so happy that you made a proper scripted cinematic analysis instead of the stream footage this time :) It is just so well produced and no one does it better, so thank you so much for taking your time with this!
@kcroyal23
Ай бұрын
Been waiting for this! So excited.
@Magik160
Ай бұрын
I need that Xal’Jesus image as a high res wallpaper
@ChrisBear1989
Ай бұрын
Xal'atath is most definitely enjoying herself.
@Sean-ps3ec
Ай бұрын
Why is Xal'Atath in the form of an Elf 100s of 1000s of years ago ? Before Elves even existed ? Why not a spider creature like the Queen ?
@Zerathenezot
Ай бұрын
In bfa she took over the body of a random void elf when we released her from the blade.
@briancates3576
Ай бұрын
Yea…xal only took her elven appearance in BfA
@mathiasthorndal9218
Ай бұрын
I don't think the visions are supposed to be literally what has happened in the past, but rather the means that Xal'Atath uses to communicate her identity and message to the queen
@grade14
Ай бұрын
I agree with the idea that it is merely for the sake of us (the viewer) understanding visually. Also, potentially obscuring her true/original appearance for a later reveal.
@ub3rfr3nzy94
Ай бұрын
Something to note is that the crystal on the wall carving is shown with rays coming off of it, indicating it gives off light. Either it has something to do with the structure above the city that's suspended, or the crystal was originally a void crystal, and that the Arathi came only after it shifted to light. The green jewel on the "crystal" is also the same as the ones addorned on the queens crown and armour/clothing.
@OnlyRoke
Ай бұрын
"That's like us having tiny little humans walking around eating scraps." Those are monkeys, Talie :D
@Zoulz666
Ай бұрын
I do really enjoy these deep dives Tali makes for blizz cinematics.
@dinhoX360
Ай бұрын
I'm so happy your trailer analysis are back 🤩
@chaselevinson7950
Ай бұрын
Nerubians evolved AFTER the fall of the Old Gods. According to WOWpedia, the troll empire was the one that split the old aqir empire into the qiraji, mantids, and nerubians. The troll empire arose after the fall of the Old Black Empire.
@monkeysk8er33
Ай бұрын
Inaccurate. Nerubians served the Old Gods, they served Yogg. Then they turned on them. Also, this video literally shows Nerubians DURING the Black Empire. People really suck at lore *facepalm*
@Ric0121
Ай бұрын
I would say the faceless one coming was during BFA, only because when the princess is with her mother her concerns are still about her people and how they are suffering. And then you see xalathat right then as well, which got her body during that period. I doubt the nerubians were under distress for 10,000 years or more without venturing out for better things
@florenmage
Ай бұрын
Xalatath. "Your rule will be eternal." Spider lady "You sure I wont become a loot pinata?" Xalatath "What!? Haha. NO!...Why would you ask that question lulz" Spider lady "Okay Ill get the dagger."
@Fervus18
Ай бұрын
Reminds me of the House of Horror Simpsons ep, with the Devil ned. "First! We want absolute power through the blood of the old god!" Agreed! Second, you'll be outclassed by one or two season and you will become just amalgamated loot that people fight over. "Agreed. No wait-" SILENCE!
@florenmage
Ай бұрын
@@Fervus18 lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@chadmclendon6475
Ай бұрын
@26:30 love this was left in. Regardless of if on purpose. Love seeing how the pudding gets made.
@GoncasCrazy
Ай бұрын
1) On the "timeline question". When I saw the cinematic for the first time I immediately assumed that it was depicting events that happened at the end of BfA. Not only does "the last stand of the Black Empire at Ny'alotha" perfectly describe the setting of the raid in patch 8.3 (and I guess if that flashback was to the days of the actual Black Empire, then it wouldn't have been their last stand), but at the time of the Black Empire there wouldn't be a separate Nerubian kingdom to "recruit" anyway. As other have mentioned, the Aqir didn't split off into their distinct sub-races until after their war with the Trolls (which happened much later than the fall of the Black Empire), and from what I've seen about Ajz-Kahet, it seems that they split up from the Nerubians of Northrend even later than that. So, with all of this in mind, I don't understand how or why people think that the flashback was from thousands of years ago, and I have seen no compelling arguments to point in that direction. 2) That was not Silvermoon, that was Dalaran. I understand you were trying to find a connection to Midnight, but there's no need to force it so much.
@monkeysk8er33
Ай бұрын
Old lore is incomplete. Nerubians existed during the Black Empire. The video itself mentions that this takes place during the Black Empire. The Ny'alotha raid in BFA was no the time of the Black Empire, it was a fakeout, a vision of the old Empire. People will literally watch new lore and still scream "non-canon", even when Metzen is back in the writers room lol. Metzen is George Lucas, don't argue with lore under Metzen; you automatically lose. It's like arguing with God.
@PopGoblinYT
Ай бұрын
@@monkeysk8er33No Nerubians definitely didn't exist back then. You're objectively wrong on that.
@monkeysk8er33
Ай бұрын
@@PopGoblinYT I'm sorry, are you Chris fucking Metzen? Didn't think so buddy. If Blizzard says they existed back then, they existed back then. There's nothing in lore that even definitively states they didn't exist back then. In fact I remember a funny little thing that happens in Dragonflight that made the Centaurs older then previously thought. Hidden civilizations remain hidden because nobody knows they are there. Everything in The War Within is about hidden civilizations no one knew existed until now. You're clearly not a writer, because this is writing 101: intro to not being a dumbass. Blizzard makes the lore, not you. If Blizzard says Zovaal was behind WC3, he was behind WC3 now. That's how writing works, it evolves. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to tell interesting stories, let alone develop the world state. It's always the people who have never written a damn thing in their lives, let alone created lore themselves for their own unique setting, that bitch about Blizzard and their writing. I've never seen a single writer talk shit on Blizzard before, because writers know it's good. Stop arguing about semantics. Nerubians defied Yogg, so they definitely existed back during The Black Empire. People just suck at studying the lore. We also just got this cinematic proving they existed during The Black Empire. Get the dust out of your ears, this is canon.
@destrucktor8071
Ай бұрын
Incredible breakdown, so much I didn't see and your analysis makes the cinematic even better
@Keyboardturner
Ай бұрын
A few other notes i can think of: Xal'atath in her past Black Empire visage could literally be the same body, due to the Time Travel shenanigans from Dawn of the Infinite. That portal she was behind that Iridikron passed through as far as we're aware wasn't a time portal, it was a voidgate, still in that past timeline. The gem colors on Ansurek change from blue in her younger form to a dark blue/purple in the older forms, representing a shift over toward the Void. This difference in color can be seen before we see Xal'atath's visit as well, where it's still blue when Ansurek talks in favor of the people, but is starkly dark purple when she asks Neferess "who are you talking to?" I believe that these meetings with Xal'atath happened simultaneously to both Ansurek and Neferess personally, but she wasn't yet under the influence of Xal'atath when looking down from the palace.
@raymondward2035
Ай бұрын
Nice! I also like the possibility that her ancient form could reflect (or be the source of) a tendency of the curse of flesh to turn things into humoids
@raymondward2035
Ай бұрын
I like the possibility that Xal'atath's ancient form could reflect (or be the source of) a tendency of the curse of flesh to turn things into humoids
@amalthea924711
Ай бұрын
Thank you for my favorite WoW content. Evi I'm going to remember your idea for a soundtrack analysis.
@TaliesinEvitel
Ай бұрын
Thank you friend!
@epic-o2215
Ай бұрын
its cool to think that xalataths outer appearance is just like a skin suit, and the horror is inside, the short of her eyes being completely black except for pupils almost made her look like the monster was gonna shift inside the puppet dead body she wears.
@CuriousZenWayfarer
Ай бұрын
This is WAAAAY cooler than a reaction video, thank you!!
@mattarsenault2908
Ай бұрын
The coming into focus aspect is interesting. As the mural is also returning to focus, suggesting a return to those times of "greatness," or a return to the former power that their kingdom once had. Though she is really undoing the breaking from the Old Gods that her mother achieved some time ago. Also, the queen pulling and cutting the thread to "refuse" the faceless. A simple act to sever any ties that they had with the Old Gods.
@Gebirges
Ай бұрын
Queen Ansurek with the Merkel Raute kills me
@jakewright1932
Ай бұрын
I love that the Faceless One didn't panic or wasn't even shocked at the betrayal showcasing how the Void sees all futures but doesn't know which will play out. As soon as the Queen reveals her treachery he knows how this thread ends, and mocks her with it.
@stonehenge313
Ай бұрын
I tend to watch these cinematic vids a few times when released and I still miss bits and pieces - I love the discussion you bring to them as it provides both context and depth
@weazed
Ай бұрын
My interpretation of the timeline here is that even though these nerubians are "ancient survivors of the black empire," I thought they were supposed to have left azjol-nerub more recently (I can't remember where I read/heard this). This would mean that this big faceless guy is definitely from BFA Ny'alotha. Also, xal'atath is of course in the form of the body she takes in BFA.
@Sk_Et
Ай бұрын
I think there's a very important detail in the first line. "Slender is the strand that guides our destiny." Ansurek only sees one path to her perceived destiny. The void sees all paths as truths. The void is malleable and shifts to make it's perceived destiny happen. Ansurek was trapped long ago, by her narrow vision and Xalatath preyed on it. The Queen states this by saying how much she has to learn. That is why Ansurek fell to corruption, she saw no options. While she is the one seizing control, she sees herself as the spider. When the black empire agent gave the prophecy, Ansurek was there, she heard it as a part of her destiny as she recalls. Xalatath mimics the Queen killing the agent by the simplest gesture bringing downfall to another. The Queens was a curl of the finger, Xalataths was an eye shift. Both the Queen and the Black Empire Agent were in the web of their demise without knowing. As now is Ansurek.
@kevinmontgomery4443
Ай бұрын
"That's like us having tiny little feral humans running round eating bugs in our home". We do, they're called The Borrowers
@nico-leeshort7253
Ай бұрын
A cool detail i noticed was that of the princesses jewel's on her crown & outfit turning from blue (13:00) in the conversation they had on the balcony to the void purple ( which to me suggests that she had already taken the deal with Xalath before the 'eye shift' moment (25:08)
@anastasiosbanakakis7765
Ай бұрын
I got goose bumps when u pointed out that the Nerubian city is gone in comparison and now Xal'atath stands in its place. Cinematic analisis is the pinnacle of your content. LOVE IT!
@ENGLISHBACON
Ай бұрын
great analysis of this tali! I don't always have time to think this deeply on these things and usually I connect the dots way down the line but its always good to hear other peoples thoughts and connect those dots way earlier, even if theyre right or wrong in a few weeks or months from now, still cool to hear!
@Aerisot
Ай бұрын
I think the Narubians struggling started when The Arathi showed up 15 years ago, they originally traded with the Earthen, but then when the Arathi showed up, they blocked their trade routes and treated them as enemies.
@LohengrinX14
Ай бұрын
The Blood of the Old Goods offer is sounding a lot like the deal Mannoroth made with the orcs
@liucconen
Ай бұрын
I think it's a fantasy stable to get powerful by drinking blood of something and lose your "humanity" or soul or smth in the process
@Saimeren
Ай бұрын
The sepia colour was also used in Uther's Afterlife video at the beginning with Arthas. So it's not just Old God stuff.
@raymondward2035
Ай бұрын
I liked the possibility that Nerubian maturation depended on social stimuli rather than just time, kind of like how changes in the compression of a colony will affect changes in particular ants. That way Ansurek only matures at the rate required by her queen or colony, which may take thousands of years. But yeah, the scene probably happened at the end of BFA.
@SurpriseCake
Ай бұрын
The Outer Wilds sounds always trigger my brain. Love it.
@samwalsh205
Ай бұрын
The first thing I thought of when I saw this cinematic was, I can't wait to watch Tali's video on this
@TANGL3_BURR
Ай бұрын
From the start, Xal'atath gave me a lot of Asian urban legends vibes. Her glitch to the camera in the features overview reminding me of Samara Morgan, giving me Girl in the gap vibes from the thumbnail for the beta trailer, and now a lot of Yokai vibes from her smirk and the fact the Nerubian queen called her a ghost.
@askatormc2375
Ай бұрын
Ok, I didnt think the thumbnail could make Xal any more horrific, but here we go. Well done, Tali. Now I'll acutally start watching, tho...
@JoULove
Ай бұрын
It's giving The Dragon Prince, with Xal'atath as Aaravos and Ansurek as Viren. I know body horror is a staple for Old Gods and void servants but it's interesting to think about spider people becoming more humanoid as equivalent of night elves becoming Naga. Oh and the scene with the big mural is like something out of Prince of Egypt as well.
@CarterArts
Ай бұрын
I love the idea that the blood of old gods turns any race into fleshy humanoids
@NateLyell
Ай бұрын
I thought as far as the timeline goes, this takes place during BfA for the simple fact that Xal'atath did not take on the physical representation (void elf) we see here until mid way through BfA.
@Tinykek
Ай бұрын
I truly love and appreciate you guys doing these. It's so much more needed now than ever before with media literacy and art appreciation declining.
@redlady37
Ай бұрын
Another amazing job, Taliesin. Thank you thank you
@jkt3D
Ай бұрын
I was thinking it was from the BFA era because Xal'Atath appears to us in this video using the form she received in BFA
@TheSpoegefugl
Ай бұрын
If I may also point out some possible visual symbolism between the depiction of mother and daughter: When we see Queen Neferess from the front while speaking to the faceless, her headdress (head shape?) is full, big and huge. It even has golden spikey thingies coming off it almost like rays, almost like the sun. Now, I can't say her headdress is exactly a circle like the sun, but let's look at the similar image of her daughter when she is queen. When we see Queen Ansurek with her army and Xal'atath in the background, her headdress or head shape is a crescent moon, and it is colored pale cold blue. I think this is another way of showing that the mother (Queen Neferess) ruled well, and the empire thrived under her. If not in long term then at least at this point in time. Under the daughter (Queen Ansurek), the empire will go into it's twilight and night, and they will get lost in the darkness. (Darkness of the void)
@Falarson92
Ай бұрын
The mural is a relief! That’s the world you’re looking for
@DasDevilSquid
Ай бұрын
I really enjoyed this cinematic a lot. Xal'atath was just so sinister.
@JeffersonSMachado
Ай бұрын
Cinematic happened in "quantum" time and here's why: N'zoth is known for have knowledge of the future until a certain point, when we went back in time in that quest where N'zoth whispers to us "I know you, what you were and what you will yet be" (i think cuz "in the lore" the champions went back using that eye hat thing so...) he knew azshara would free him and that he could try to make ny'alotha manifest in our reality. also remember that ny'alotha does not follows the rules of time and space, these places are like the Outer Planes in Planescape. Therefore they made this cinematic "time irrelevant". Xal'Atath was showing the Queen her own memories (she was not lying) in a time Nerubians worship her at the peak of the black empire. She said before "Do not be impressed by tall icons of the titans which stand here. The towers of sacrifice in Ny'alotha dwarf these pathetic temples." When Il'gynoth dies he says "N'Zoth... I journey... to Ny'alotha..." and then we find him dyring Ny'alotha's raid merging with the achitecture of the place, which may suggest the old gods are not dead-dead but maybe "sleeping" in Ny'alotha like the Prime Evils in Diablo (i imagine something exactly like the Mephisto's bubble in Diablo 4). We destroyed Ny'alotha at the end of BFA (like Fyrakk tried to destroy the Emerald Dream... that was a payback time attempt) so we can assume the old gods are gone for good now (?) BUT when we fight Il'gynoth again in BFA he says "Your coming was foretold in the rings. The long circle is nearly complete.".... so Mmm... Somehow he knew we were going there... that we should die there (we kinda actually lost that fight with N'zoth... we only beat him was because of the Heart of Azeroth and the power of the forge of the creation... so basically we where saved by our own planet)... and that the could bring the Black Empire once again over Azeroth... but N'zoth's plans fails... not saying that Xal'Atath plans has failed as well... Cuz I think she wanted that all along... I dont think she is anything in special at all... All I think is that she managed to survive and endure everything that was thrown at her... Her planet-homeland got crashed by an unimaginable force and instead of "fighting against it" she admired that, like she admires Ny'alotha... She's using the void to corrupt the world soul so she can "forge" a planet in her own image... she wants to be a god, not ruled by gods, she wants to write her history at her own terms... but that's another story... Finally... the "they are gone" could refere to 2 things: 1- they are gone from azeroth, 2- they are gone because we destroyed their home!. The faceless one recruiting the Nerubians could have happened at anytime since N'zoth know about the events from BFA since the Black Empire. The destruction of Ny'alotha and the "end" of the old gods could be just part of Xal'Atath plan and Ny'alotha is the key to understand that story... how it got introduced in the game, when, what how it is similar to the emerald dream the the manifestation of the World Tree in our world that Fyrakk was trying to prevent and how we stopped the manifestation of Ny'alotha in our old during the Visions of N'zoth patch.
@Jerao
Ай бұрын
What really does it for me, is that it feels kinda good to be dealing with a terrestrial army again. A "dark" kingdom waging war against the rest of the world without a bunch of mcguffins or titan trinkets. There's old god juice obviously but it feels like a more classic "army vs army" that worked well in Legion, Wrath, and even parts of WoDs level up story.
@MikeBenko
Ай бұрын
A wall carving like that is called a "relief".
@erdtroll7010
Ай бұрын
That final shot of Ansurek also has her second pair of arms outstretched, urging to behold the armies behind her as if to say “Look at all those things I’ve achieved (with some help of course but we dont need to talk about that)“
@krakwithak
Ай бұрын
I love the Imagery where Neferesk is framed outside of the old god tentacles of the mural, to the right, but when Ansarek stabs her, Ansarek is framed right in the mouth of the old god with the void forces of the mural facing inwards towards her
Ай бұрын
Been waiting for this video :D
@nigelhirth2181
Ай бұрын
Perhaps the big Beledar crystal is some kind of refuge FOR Xalatath? Perhaps some kind of Void/Naaru ship that she arrived in eons ago. It shined with the Light while she was trapped in the blade, it only started flipping to void once she was released. Perhaps it is flipping back and forth to signify her coming and going from within it, to regroup or further her plans.
@71jdanziger
Ай бұрын
"And together, we will finally claim our destiny!" The faceless one at the beginning of the trailer already told you of your destiny since Queen Ansurek is part of that "line that will sever itself"
@lonelystarslibrary9326
Ай бұрын
I always found it funny how the void was much more classically demonic than the demons. Yes, the demons did whispers here and there, temp people and stuff, but overall, they were mainly a force of chaotic destruction, while the void is more conniving and into the whole "demon deal" thing
@grade14
Ай бұрын
Perhaps the difference of Devils vs Demons. Especially in DnD but also other settings Demons would fall under a more Chaotic Evil (ie Destruction) and Devils fall under Lawful Evil (ie deals, corruption, etc). Also, the expression "Deal with the Devil". But I do like how both the Legion and the Void can both be evil and different from each other, even if they occasionally share tactics (orc/eredar corruption, black empire's use of force).
@christabelle__
Ай бұрын
Given how Egyptian they are, the wall-art makes me think of Egyptian art - and the radiant lines coming off of the crystal really make me think of how the sun was depicted in Egyptian art, how Ra was shown... with lines emanating from them, to indicate sunlight. And yeah, Blizz really nailed the 'insane Anime villain' vibe with Xal this time, and I *love* it!
@loopymachoopin2262
Ай бұрын
She just feels so damn forced and ret-conned into "No no guys, she was SECRETLY ALWAYS there! We're very clever!" because: Internal stories from blizzard confirm: she is absolutely a hacky retcon and is only doing what she's doing because "Metzen wants his own Avengers"
@MintEverett
Ай бұрын
Uploaded this just in time for me to watch it while eating breakfast lol best start to the day!
@TheKatVixen
Ай бұрын
I am going with this is set at the end of BFA. The reason for this is Aqir is what the Nubian evolved from. That evolution did not start till after Xal'atath whispered in to Zando's ear to get the Trolls go and attack the Aqir. (16,042 years ago). The trolls won, and drove the Aqir to flee, this is where they ended up having different evolutions through out Azeroth. Qiraji, Mantid, and Narubians. I believe this happened when N'zoth was gathering his forces at the end of BFA. Also as others pointed out that Ansurek, is not old she moves from being youth to perhaps fresh adult. (Before she takes the void power and her face changes shape drastically) Also remember the Arathians arrived above them 15 years ago. This could pose a problem for their logistics, perhaps Ansurek expected her mother to attack them?
@Kryoxys
Ай бұрын
The sound when the flame stops is the same as when the pillar in the DF cinematic went out.
@atibamaule
Ай бұрын
I see a similarity between Queen Ansurek and her mother's relationship and that of the then Prince of Stormwind- Llane who went to war against the forest trolls against his Father’s wishes. I see an old Ruler who is wary of war and a young ruler who desires to prove himself/herself. The same relationship is seen between Thor and Odin in the MCU.
@DarkHeroGamePlay
Ай бұрын
Ngl, that creepy smile turned something on 😮 Great job 👏
@HawkknightXC88
Ай бұрын
While coming out of the walls is on the top of horror.
@MikeeBacon
Ай бұрын
Along with their body language, the way they carry their head (angle/tilt/etc) in the profile shot says a lot too. Queen Neferess holds her head high and looks down respectfully and Queen Ansurek tilts her head low and looks up greedily.
@ponyote
Ай бұрын
And here's where Tali shows that he's been working on a PhD in psychology with a focus on neurolinguistic programming in the background. Can we trust such a charismatic, brilliant, and dare I say handsome Briton? Yes, of course we can. Especially when we know that Evitel is the real brains behind it all.
@esperandum4629
Ай бұрын
I like this villain. She has psychopath expressions, and I somewhat feel that it was something Bliz missed. The scheming, scary evil that makes you say "ffs this one is insane" with a single image
@vhaelen326
Ай бұрын
one thing ive seen that no one mentions is that the act of killing ones own parent in fiction is usually there to showcase that a character is entirely irredeemable, there are plenty kinds of murder you CAN be redeemed for (doesnt allways happen but it has happened) killing a friend killing a lover killing an enemy despite your nature these all can and frequently are redeemed, but killing your parent? i cant think of a single case of fiction where someone who killed one or both of their parents was redeemed which is opposite to killing ones own child which frequently IS redeemed and it makes me wonder if that goes back to old mentality of "serve your elders, they are better than you and can do no wrong" kratos for example killed his own child and he was redeemed
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