Not to mention these 3 characters would be terrifying to encounter. And they embody Creatures that naturally make people afraid or uncomfortable/disturbed like bats and spiders and demons. It’d be hard to see them as good if they were killers too
@zoeyfriend224
Ай бұрын
.....Why? Other than bullshit reasons.
@thomasprigge6635
Жыл бұрын
Spider-Man is pretty much the only super hero that can effectively stand by the no kill rule and get shit done.
@jimbotron4749
4 ай бұрын
Yep, Ironic given he doesn't really have a No Kill rule. He just generally prefers not to kill and only uses it as a last resort.
@sludgerat666
17 күн бұрын
@@jimbotron4749cuz it's not something he struggles with 😂
@marciawilliams2499
2 жыл бұрын
Plus i love a story where batman loses everyone he cares for, and joker saying "same time tomorrow" to him after being handed off to the police again. There funny stories really seeing batman at his best.
@L_______
7 ай бұрын
i dont think a hero should kill unless its the litteral only way they are not just ordinary people they should they to be as close to pillars of morality but we arnt just talking a hero we are talking a super hero and a superhero should never need to kill a superhero shouldnt just save everyone they should help to rehabilitate villain aswell superheros arnt just goodguys they should be what everyone should strive to be a hero amongst heros a super hero
@mentalist7772
2 ай бұрын
There was two pulp heroes who helped popularize the "no kill rule" but each had different reasons for not killing. The Green Hornet pretended to be a criminal to gather information and fight crime but believed that the people of the city needed the law to step up and defeat crime so he always manipulated both sides of the law to foil criminals plots and arrange for the police to arrive and arrest everyone while he escapes. The Avenger is another one. After the death of his family his facial muscles were paralyzed and his skin and hair turned white and his face became malleable allowing him to impersonate anyone by altering his face to look like them, he also learned how to use makeup, hair dye and color contacts and how to change his voice to sound like other people. However, even though he used these abilities to fight for justice he viewed his unique abilities as making him close to a monster and that the only thing that kept him from becoming a monster was his humanity and he believed that if he grew comfortable with killing criminals he would lose his humanity. He doesn't ban the members of his team, Justice, Inc. From killing but it's a rule he personally holds himself to out of fear of what he might become. And while Doc Savage killed at times, after a criminal sacrificed himself to save Doc's teammates he began to prefer using redemption and attempting to reform criminals rather than merely killing them.
@etrangray-mane8610
Ай бұрын
Don't forget The Shadow, who, while willing to kill, would also get criminals arrested or even flipped into agents under his employ, as informants and so on.
@zaragachizanparo4948
10 ай бұрын
Odd that you mention Spider-Man because he didn't have a no-kill rule in the comics I read. He just made sure that stayed as a last resort and not a default action when dealing with bad guys.
@AmartharDrakestone
9 ай бұрын
Than you've read crappy comics, because his no-kill rule was basically baked in with his power-responsibility rule.
@kingmoneilius7777
7 ай бұрын
Spider-Man has a pretty strict no kill rule
@zoeyfriend224
Ай бұрын
Old comics? First iterations usually aren't the best. Like Batman using guns, or The Punisher killing kids. Otherwise, I swear no one criticize Spider Man. But yeah, he should kill at least Green Goblin. He suffers way more than Batman has. Jesus!
@etrangray-mane8610
20 күн бұрын
The reason Batman had guns in the beginning is because his creators literally plagerised The Shadow.@@zoeyfriend224
@darlalathan6143
Жыл бұрын
So, you're saying that Daredevil doesn't kill because lethal vigilantism is murder by legal standards and immoral by pacifist Christian standards? Batman probably doesn't kill because as a PTSD sufferer, and murder survivor, he finds bodies and guns "triggering". Also, he quit the League of Shadows, probably because he's a conscientious objector, probably because his parents were doctors. Spider-Man is not a killer because he is a geeky high school student and not normally a streetwise tough guy type. Despite his poverty and loss of Uncle Ben to violent crime, his neighborhood is not presented as a 'hood and he doesn't attend an inner city school, like the protagonists of '90s 'hood films. The number 1 reason for all three is instinctive squeamishness, the reason most of us never kill people!
@anonymouslyunknown4811
3 жыл бұрын
the Netflix Daredevil handled the No Kill Rule so well
@Kuzcopia
3 жыл бұрын
they certainly cared about it, which was pretty cool.
@anonymouslyunknown4811
3 жыл бұрын
@@Kuzcopia I agree
@JohnDoe-zn6fd
Жыл бұрын
The daredevil argument where criminals need to be brought to establish their criminality is a bad argument. Daredevil knows they're criminals, he's knows what they do with his own experience. I do agree that he doesn't "need" to kill all of them, but when people want superheroes to kill someone they don't look at small antagonists for one episode's filler plot and action. Also, vigilantism is a crime, so by saying Daredevil doesn't want to be a criminal and "stopping a crime isn't a crime unless you're committing a crime" this point is already invalid. Criminal nature also does NOT need to be a registered fact. Take the Chicago Tylenol murders, no one knows who perpetrated them. However, if someone silently knew and killed the person who did do it, they delivered a just punishment for hurting innocent people, children no less. Am I wrong? Unless you want to argue that the hypothetical vigilante was unjust for a killing a child murderer. I wouldn't consider spiderman not killing people for low level crime an argument. Again when people advocate for superheroes to kill they look at villains like joker who has obscenely high kill counts and constantly escapes captivity to do more. Things would objectively be better of without them and the heroes would have the support of the public. For Batman's ethical argument, where he doesn't want to be the judge, jury, and executioner, in these worlds the court system which is meant to be just isn't either. many criminals who should have received the death sentence never do, no matter how many crimes they commit. Batman might as well do everyone a favor at that point and kill big time villains like joker himself. I'm sure no one would object. The spiritual part makes sense I guess, if he doesn't want to kill that is fine. However, from what I've understood about batman is that he and the joker have an odd relationship. Where the joker commits these crimes because of batman. He wants to test batman, to push him. Batman very well has the ability to stop this, but he never does. He lets joker keep doing what he does, he KNOWS that joker will escape and do more, and batman just lets him. I've seen pieces of media where batman will stop others from killing joker, hell he'll even save him sometimes. Honestly from my perspective this "hero" is an entire joke. The fact his costume is based off a batman doesn't let me take him seriously. The dumb little ears take me out of it every time and his philosophy makes it even worse. Even the punisher who kills every criminal, he's doing much more good than all the other no-kill superheroes combined. I constantly see in media that includes no-kill heroes, the same exact villains pop up again and again doing the same shit over and over. Nothing changes because the heroes don't change anything. They keep popping these supervillains in some prison and expect them to stay there despite their track record of hundreds of breakouts. When the punisher kills someone, that criminal is gone. That criminal won't hurt anyone, it won't leech off any of society's resources. There is no downside to killing a repeating offender other than those who values the life of that criminal, which is likely to be few and I would consider the lives of innocents over the grief of a criminal's close ones. When a no-kill superhero puts a person in prison, they can and usually will breakout, killing and hurting others. If they stay in prison they are leeching off the tax dollars of innocent normal people.
@darlalathan6143
Жыл бұрын
A very good counterpoint!
@NeocrimsonX
8 ай бұрын
Punisher the goat
@dbzgtvaf
Жыл бұрын
Great video. The point of them being super heroes is that they're heroes. If they went around just doing as they please they'd stop being super heroes and start being super dictators.
@JohnDoe-zn6fd
Жыл бұрын
Not at all. They're heroes, meaning everything they do is going to be is for good. They would only be killing people who deserve it. If batman killed joker things would just get better, there would be no reason for him to become a dictator because of that. Batman is just as bad as the joker because he acts as an enabler. Batman knows the joker will repeatedly escape and keep doing bad things and he just lets him.
@shpambypamby3113
Жыл бұрын
@@JohnDoe-zn6fd "...only be killing people who deserve it" sounds pretty tyrannical, to be honest
@JohnDoe-zn6fd
Жыл бұрын
@@shpambypamby3113 Care to explain how? To say someone deserves death means that they committed crimes that are worthy of receiving death as a punishment. When people say that superheroes should kill no one is thinking that a crime deserving of death is something like jaywalking.
@jamestolbert1856
9 ай бұрын
@@JohnDoe-zn6fdit means they’re not the law, they’re meant to protect those who follow the law or not
@JohnDoe-zn6fd
9 ай бұрын
@@jamestolbert1856 What a better way to protect law abiding citizens than getting rid of major threats to society? If they're not the law, they should sit back and stop breaking it themselves when they become vigilantes.
@tommyfishhouse8050
5 ай бұрын
My issue isn't that batman/superman/spider-Man etc. never kill. My issue is that too often the refusal of a superhero to kill a supervillain, comes off as the hero caring more about the well being of the supervillain than the people the supervillain hurts. As if they're the victim worthy of help and not the families of the dozens of people they've killed.
@incognigo1670
Ай бұрын
EXACTLY!
@VunderGuy
6 күн бұрын
My problem with people advocating for the no kill rule to be abolished is that they have a critical lack of self awareness and don't realize they themselves will be amongst the first on the chopping block or inevitably be on the chopping block. They also don't realize that any inefficiency taken in stopping a villain permanently in their world which often happens for the sake of plot and character and rule of cool could be used as justification to kill the superheroes in this society. What they're asking for are soldiers when they don't understand that soldiers aren't superheroes and most of the color that comes from the superhero genre would be bereft if they got their wish.
@25NGL
10 ай бұрын
@JohnDoe-zn6fd Well actually I have some counter points to your counter points. Start off Daredevil Legal Argument: Criminal Nature needs to be a registered fact because it’s bad enough as is for everybody to just commit murder and get away with it. Sure we can determine criminal nature with enough information and common sense, but we have consider all the facts before we decide rather or not the murder was justifiable. We be no different than Batman letting Joker get away with murder if we were let someone just kill someone and don’t consider all the facts on the killer and the victim, and what if the victim actually was innocent and you let the murderer get away would you be in peace with that? No you wouldn’t. Spiderman Moral Argument: let me say this we both can agree Joker has all Spiderman villains beat in body count, but Green Goblin has tried to kill some people close to Spiderman and successfully killed his Aunt in No Way Home, when that happened, Spiderman was hellbent on killing Green Goblin and he tried to kill Sandman for killing his uncle. So how do we decide who deserves to die? By their body count or by specific targets? (in Spiderman’s case his friends and family.) Those who advocate heroes that kill make a compelling case when it comes to Joker, but what if heroes start killing low level criminals out of convenience, to save time and energy turning them over the police and allow Law and Order to do it’s job, would that still be right? How far is too far? Batman Ethical Argument: We can both agree that Gotham’s justice system is ass and of course, Batman could have made counter measures in case it fails. So my question is if Batman were to find contingencies to prevent Joker from escaping or find a way to track him down when he does, Would killing still be an option? Batman could’ve use Big Brother Eye technology in Injustice so he could find Joker wherever he pops up.
@MW2proification
9 ай бұрын
Superman didn’t kill that terrorist guy as he said, anyway, for the Batman no kill rule, I don’t mind it, as long as it is both established and not act hypocritical about it, if not for either, as long as to establish reasons and style for the polar opposite. Bale Bat said he doesn’t kill but still kills, that is my problem with him.
@marciawilliams2499
2 жыл бұрын
The saying to fight monsters you have to become a monster is interesting. I prefer to fight monsters you have to become a monster, so nobody else has to.
@25NGL
Жыл бұрын
I agree with you to a point, but how are you gonna inspire people to be anything else if you can’t be anything other than a monster?
@Kaiju-bm4ts
Жыл бұрын
@@25NGL my guy not everyone wants to be a inspiration to someone else, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do and not care to inspire others. At the end of the day the entire human race is incredibly flawed beyond repair to the point we are causing our own extinction
@25NGL
Жыл бұрын
@@Kaiju-bm4ts I can agree that not everybody wants to be inspiration. However, I don’t believe we are beyond repair nor saving, nor do anyone wants to be extinct. And as far as doing what needs to be done sometimes could include being an inspiration, reaching out, healing, teaching and mentoring. Becoming whatever you need to be become for the benefit of humanity AND ourselves. Now some may believe in becoming a monster to kill a monster, but that could apply to anybody and everybody and if everybody can be a monster, who has the right to judge?
@Kaiju-bm4ts
Жыл бұрын
@@25NGL Humanity is beyond repair and we're going to become extinct eventually whether we want it or not, earth naturally has it's own mass extinctions once every millions/billions of years so humanity will likely be gone way before the next mass extinction comes. Then again we're already causing the next mass extinction to come sooner. I do agree helping people in times of need is fine but it's better to have a gray look on the world given that the world is equally dark as it is equally beautiful. If becoming a monster to fight monsters is necessary then so be it. Humanity is already doing a good job at being the most dangerous animals on the planet
@EAster33
8 ай бұрын
Do you have one of these about the hero killing?
@Kuzcopia
8 ай бұрын
Haha. Maybe one day. There's just no effort building up that case imo. Who'd you pick as examples? Punisher, Wolverine, Magneto 🤔. Maybe wonder woman instead of wolverine to have 1 dc again?
@BloodDragon-rp4xc
18 күн бұрын
people who whine about superheros not killing, seem to forger the courts could also just give the death sentence but choose not to as well. so clearly the hero is not the only issue ngl, they SHOULDNT kill and technically speaking the law SHOULD give em the DP(i refuse to elaborate what i mean by dp)
@obrikidivine7973
28 күн бұрын
But Spider-Man doesn’t bear you half dead and be like now talk
@Kuzcopia
22 күн бұрын
xDDD
@josephkeen7224
9 күн бұрын
If anything spider man’s fighting style is more lethal then Batman’s because of him having super strength (even if he holds back), not to mention him launching people in the air.
@Johncyberpunk77
Ай бұрын
Their isn’t a defence apart from its a character flaw
@doublintucksveto5321
8 ай бұрын
Doesn't Superman also have a no kill rule.
@vikingdrengenspiders7875
7 ай бұрын
Yes
@whynot1548
7 ай бұрын
Good defense.........if u go for sentimental, child centric, cartoonishly oversimplified moral reasoning, than yeah.....the One Rule makes toooootal sense 🙄 .. In all honesty tho........this is a lazy and generic defense on ur part.
@daraghokane4236
2 күн бұрын
I think the kill your way to peace is more childish and stupid, You can't kill your way to peace,
@Rick-r7y
2 ай бұрын
I'd like to offer a counterargument to you're statement that Batman shouldn't kill because a killer isn't who he wants to be. I think that in a place like Gotham, it doesn't really matter who he wants to be. In the grand scheme of things, what matters is what Gotham needs him to be. And What Gotham really needs, is someone who can deal with threats like Joker and Rahs'Al'Ghul permanently. But that's just my opinion.
@HolyknightVader999
6 ай бұрын
With how hard Batman hits his enemies, I'm pretty sure half the people he sends to the hospitals died at the operating table. Internal bleeding, broken spines, necks, and skulls, I'm sure Batman has indirectly killed even if he didn't mean to.
@josephkeen7224
9 күн бұрын
There’s an obvious factor that people don’t realize when they say that heroes should kill their villains, they’re already operating outside the law, and killing their foes would just make the police turn on them even harder, and this is ignoring the corrupt state Gotham is in.
@CarterLamb-ng2pb
20 күн бұрын
Daredevil doesn’t kill cause it has to do with his religion
@scotibot7450
Жыл бұрын
I think your argument falls short in one aspect You successfully argue that the no kill rule applies arbitrarily. For example would it be justified for batman to walk into the jokers cell and stab him to death with a batarang? No of course not but one thing you miss is the actions of the superhero in the moment. And this I call "the argument from minimum use of force" Minimum use of force is a concept that exists in force even today. with police, law enforcement agency's and even the military believe it or not. It is where in order not to morally, physically, socially and even economically exhaust ourselves when the situation arises where use of force is necessary only the minimum use of force is expended to resolve that situation and no more. The degree of force necessary is determined by the severity of the situation and this again ONLY IF NECESSARY!!! can include the use of lethal force. Though there would be a very high bar on that threshold of course. Superheroes like the three mentioned (mostly) seem to apply that rule of minimum force when dealing with their antagonists. They bop them on the head, stop hitting them when they go foetal and turn them over to the authorities. In the cases of their more capable foe's the level of force they employ increases again because it is necessary so there is a pattern of escalation where the severity of the threat justifies an escalation of the minimum use of force needed. When it comes to a the highest threshold of this concept which is where the minimum use of force required necessitates use of lethal force the the bar for superheroes like these three could reasonably be said to be set extremely higher than most people! BUT THE BAR IS STILL THERE AND CAN POTENTIALLY BE PASSED! Meaning although it's perhaps less likely that they may well need to use lethal force there is feasibly speaking a threshold for it where they will not only be morally justified in killing. But potentially ethically obliged to do so regardless of their own feelings on the subject.
@Kuzcopia
Жыл бұрын
Well written. I do believe I address this in both the batman portion, and in the conclusion. In the future, I need to better clarify each argument before I address it! That's a learning. They're not cops or soldiers, and they don't want to kill. Like Desmond Doss, to cite a historical figure who was an actual soldier, they want to help but they don't want to kill. Etc etc - won't repeat it all here. In a perfect world, they'd never be in a situation where killing is just the optimal/easiest thing to do, but then how'd we get all the tragic drama? And their vows put to the test? Thanks for watching and adding to the conversation!
@scotibot7450
Жыл бұрын
@@Kuzcopia cops and soldiers don't want to kill people either (largely) and to be fair most serving in the police and military will never fire a shot in anger. And whilst superheroes aren't cops or soldiers they commonly fill the roles both organisations carry out. The general point I was making there is that all 3 make use of force when necessary to carry out the roles they play. Doss if you think about it isn't an outlier here either. Minimum use of force would also have you consider whether or not it is necessary to use force at all and one could argue Doss wasn't in positions where he had to. Besides he had others around him doing it on his behalf. And whether or not killing is the optimal/easiest thing to do isn't a factor. If you're acting in a moral way like we expect anyone to do let alone superheroes it'll be neither of these things. It'll be anything but these things. The question here is whether or not it is necessary as a point of last resort of which if one adheres to the concept of minimum use of force has to be a consideration and if it becomes necessary do they have the fortitude needed to pull the proverbial trigger? And the only real delineation between a cop/soldier and a superhero is that in the case of the superhero is that when it comes to setting the bar for what justifies use of lethal force is that for the superhero the bar is set significantly higher.
@darlalathan6143
Жыл бұрын
We have a winner! An expert opinion!
@jessicapinkman-hd4bw
9 ай бұрын
what are you talking about spider-man has killed on multiple occasions i think you completely misread his philosophy
@sunnythegreat9312
4 ай бұрын
Yeah sure, Batman, Spiderman and Daredevil aren't supposed to kill most of the time in their field duty. They aren't supposed to torture either or hospitalise. That doesn't stop Batman from hospitalising several of the people he fights. In comparison to real life police protocol, the police are meant to subdue as quick and painlessly as possible. Spiderman knocks his enemies cold or traps them in webs. Batman, however, causes several fractures and other serious injuries to his enemies. He might not be a killer according to real life police standards, but he can be criticised for brutality. He tortures his enemies for answers. The police protocol is well thought out and nuanced. Batman's protocol is superficial and rigid. Some of his enemies were meant to be served death sentences long ago, but It's not technically his fault. In the ending, the options were doing what's right and doing what's necessary. Technically, doing what's necessary is the right thing to do especially when it comes to really grave situations. I'm guessing according to this KZitemr, the right thing for the field agent to do was to capture Osama, but not kill him. Thanks to the agent killing Osama, threats from that terrorist organisation were reduced. The Joker's evilness and the impacts of said evilness are far greater so killing him would be the necessary and thereby, the right thing to do. But I guess since in comics, several buildings full of people get destroyed every other week, we and the comic book civilians are desensitised to the pain such destruction can cause.
@MeisterGeekMedia
2 жыл бұрын
Great video fam
@johnysnoww3831
5 ай бұрын
12:00 When u said Batman have not killed anyone. He killed the whole room full of ninjas and assasins + the old man who was the original rahs al ghoul, and was there to supervise batman executing that one dude they claimed was a criminal and murdered. But once the burning fully maden out of wood cabin exploded. Batman killed 20-50 men at least. :DDD + The new batman movie where he chases penguineen with batmobile. They kill like hundreds if not thousands of people while recklesly driving and not stopping the pursuit. Like why would you make the puruited dude panick and kill thousands for no reason... When you could just let him go. U are not going to kill him anyway so why keep chasing him and get everyone else killed. Batman always talks to superman and other heroes about their fightingstyles or how how they are too powerful and almost killed a villain by accident. If they legit just made justice league role book of killing. Where there would be at least 10-20 different boxes that had to be writen off, so killing somebody would be seen as justified and it would need to be unamious vote as well. But good rules around every different villain they have fought against. and killing rules are needed. Because there is nothing that makes less sense that Barry Allen as superhero. The dude could live the dream. But its his fault why his enemies have killed, his dad, stepdad, Girlfirend Iris, His mom, His friends. Multipple worlds and everybody he knew from those multiverse worlds. And all of this just because the grown man rather lets some psychopaths kill and kidnapp his loved ones in daily baisis and torture them. Even tho barry can just vibrate his hand and touch someone with it. Like imagine how mad you would be at your SON if you were a dad and your SON gets your whole family killed multiple times. Just because he thinks he is just so much better that he refuses to kill the villains that keep killing yall families. Or at least fucking paralyze them. DO SOMETHING!!!!! OH and the flash tv series drives me crazy because every episode barry fights some meta human. Who first knocks barry to his ass because he is the worst superhero ever and takes things that can destroy the whole city, as jokes. Then barry retrites. They get some intellect on that meta human and they come up with some type of weakness or a plan how to take it down. And now barry goes to fight 2ND round. And everytyime if he hits them just one time, they always fly like 6 feet in the air from one punch. Without superstrength ? And after that punch landes he always turn his back on the enemy and just has to press the ear piece so now everyone knows he has comms in those stupid flash marks. But my problem is the fact that he keeps letting these villains go, and they just keep killing team flash memebers or they loved ones. And barry could stop all this but refuses to do it. And what type of superhero. Throws a party in the middle of a fight after getting one punch in. Then flash turn his back against the enemy. And ususally gets knocked out for the 2nd time. by some Z-level villain.
@plasticweapon
Жыл бұрын
it's been defended enough, the other side needs some defense.
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