i love david, he is so fun "Maybe u dont tell kaladin he is literally in hell" was actually so fun. Amazing work everyone, keep it up!
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
David's jokes constantly crack me up. -Eric
@MrKyuuren
2 жыл бұрын
Hype is not dead so long as it lives in the sub feeds of men!
@2thechase
2 жыл бұрын
This discussion makes me really want a Desolation real time strategy or board game. You could make it a legacy style game too, where each time you play affects the next Desolation.
@Kingdom0324
2 жыл бұрын
Everstorm is too new to become a type 1 invested entity
@_argent
2 жыл бұрын
I realized we started talking about the hide & seek and never finished explaining it :D It was an idea we had where when the Heralds go back to Braize, they don't immediately get thrown in the torture chamber, they try to evade the Fused there for as long as they can, and the Fused try to capture them so they get commence the stabby stabby. Hide and seek.
@elisewest6216
2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of a game I played in elementary (some version of tag) and if you were tagged you went to "jail", I thought it was cops and robbers but looking up the rules I think it isn't the same game
@shawnbutler9888
2 жыл бұрын
I mean I like it. But, I'm fairly certain Odium would know where they were, no matter how well they were to hide.
@king_dot
2 жыл бұрын
@@elisewest6216 manhunt?
@datmarshy
2 жыл бұрын
🤔 Shardcast ‘Loved’ a Shardcastian’s comment? 🕵🏻♂️ Im feelin some maayyjor SexyLokiShow vibes. and I dig it. (Loving me is an idea I can get behind.)
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
For those of you who watched the spoiler stream, you may have noticed there were some Herald WoBs. You may also note that those were asked by those of us on the podcast! We actually asked them due to the questions we had in this episode when we recorded it. So a little bit of this was already answered, which we will discuss on the WoB episodes next month. -Eric
@LrnecBuma
2 жыл бұрын
I now get a little bit excited every time i hear your questions getting asked and picture you ticking off a list of things like answer, answer, roafo, roafo, roafo, answer.
@flambo6554
2 жыл бұрын
That’s a nice thumbnail of Chana ya got there, not an ominous sign at all
@rebeccaroy3751
Жыл бұрын
😂
@windrunnerKal
2 жыл бұрын
Me, watching the first minute without my glasses: "why's there a christmas tree behind evgeni?"
@solitaryrecluse7740
2 жыл бұрын
I love the term unFused and shall now use it whenever discussing Braize.
@rodmannn1
2 жыл бұрын
Nearly my favourite cast. So happy i saw this before i went to bed.
@Jorge-ft9oh
2 жыл бұрын
Noooooooo Eric, 3,5h podcasts are great. Give it to meeeeeeeee
@raylawler13
2 жыл бұрын
I'm too dumb to know what the hell any of you are talking about, but I'm enjoying being here. Haha. I don't retain information well. I love it when you guys define the things that you think might already be clear because the definitions are usually very fuzzy for me. Also, I probably need to look up a general timeline of how all this works, because every time I thought I understood it something was said that made me doubt myself.
@farmofalltrades9282
2 жыл бұрын
Every time you guys talk about some form of investiture gaining sentience as a spren makes me think that at some point during era 3 or 4 the mists in Scadriel will also become fully sentient and vaguely take on Vin's appearance and part of her personality/motivation as the one who conquered the mists and attuned to them on the deepest level. That way despite dying without descendants, Vin will have forged something that will live on the Cosmere for the future.
@adamklaits6379
2 жыл бұрын
And iirc Wax thinks he sees a short figure in the mists....
@thatrat.S
Жыл бұрын
I think without reading this... somewhere.. sometime.. the overlady smiled and wasn't sure why..
@trolledchaos6531
2 жыл бұрын
These mechanics heavy episodes are my favorites!!!
@GoErikTheRed
2 жыл бұрын
It's possible that in past desolations, then time between the death of a fused and that fused's rebirth was a lot slower. I think Kaladin says that in modern times it's like 3 days, but what if in the past it was 3 weeks? Or months? You might have a situation where the heralds are able to keep a bit ahead of the fused returns, sending them back almost as fast as they can spawn, meanwhile trainign up the rest of humanity. Then at some point they fight a big battle, kill a bunch of fused, and several heralds die. The other heralds then commit suicide and start the isolation, trapping all the fused they just killed. This gives the rest of the humans a jump start on finishing off the rest of the fused. I think the prologue of WoK was absolutely a moment of opportunity. Ishar had probably been wondering if the oathpact could be pegged to one person, while probably noticing that Taln had never broken before. Maybe tells one or two other heralds about it. Then there just so happens to be a "final battle" where only Taln dies, and he puts his plan into motion.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
At the end of Rhythm of War lezian remarks that he's been brought back far sooner than he normally would have. Perhaps dying includes some sort of punishment on braize before being returned to roshar.
@labiancami
2 жыл бұрын
Have you considered that in the "You cannot have my pain" scene, odium says "WE KILLED YOU". Its not "I", its "WE". Did he kill Honor with somebody else?
@MrKyuuren
2 жыл бұрын
Odium and the (or at least some powerful) Fused? Odium and the Unmade?
@labiancami
2 жыл бұрын
@@MrKyuuren Or odium with another shard? We shall see :D
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
I really want answers about that line eventually... -Eric
@labiancami
2 жыл бұрын
Another one! If Harmony revived Wax, was that done by investing him like Nale did with Szeth using a Fabrial or like the returned of warbreaker? If so, is he a cognitive shadow and we didn't noticed It? Philosophical questions for the Next podcast! :D
@danscantland8066
2 жыл бұрын
@@labiancami Probably exactly the same thing he did for Spook at the end of Hero of Ages, or what he offered to Vin and Elend at the end of Secret history.
@AddisonMorse
2 жыл бұрын
The way I see the return cycle, I think the reason heralds fight in large scale battles just before returning is because of the time it takes fused to come back. They probably recognize humanity has built enough strength to stand against the general singers, work to kill as many fused as possible over the course of a few days, then begin the isolation before all of those fused come back. That way, there will still be some leftover fused, but most will get pulled to Braize when they respawn instead of Roshar. It works specifically because it takes fused time to reform, which has been removed/made much faster this time because of the everstorm. Edit: posted this partway through, like a minute further into the recording this exact idea is mentioned, whoops. I guess this is more of an endorsement of that theory than a new proposal
@oneukum
2 жыл бұрын
10:00 We have no idea how old the song is. This may refer to forming the Knights Radiant. The Singers switched sides that much is clear. 17:00 An immortal Singer is less useful than a Regal. Why wouldn't Singer civilization regress to the stone age? Either they were teachers in the manner of the Heralds or they were Regals. If they just discovered those powers, why do they have nine forms? 27:00 Then Odium's tone could have been true for only a few decades. 28:30 If the Heralds are not tortured immediately on Braize, then they should logically return as soon as one of them is captured and they should initiate the Isolation five minutes later. 32:00 The Heralds are active fighters. Honor gave them superpowers and they are legendary fighters. They at least planned for the Desolations with active fighting. It just does not fit with the prologue. They expected a decisive battle. In fact they must have sought it. They attacked. They should have taken as many as possible with them back to Braize. 44:00 If the Fused can return anyway, why stay on Braize? You are one against a whole planet. You definitely do more damage to the enemy on Roshar. 45:00 That boils down to a question: Do the Fused age? If they do, the question will solve itself. 47:00 Then why are the Heralds Surgebinders and have bodies uniquely adapted to fighting? They can pluck an arrow out of the air. They were intended as soldiers in the field? 52:00 Why does Lezian have to kill himself? 57:00 The Fused are native to Roshar. Why would they be bonded stronger to the third world? It looks like the Oathpact chains the Heralds and the Fused to the same planet as long as they have no bodies. 1:23:00 Why would Odium imprision his own minions? Him needing a defensive storm imples an unknown threat.
@carl11547
2 жыл бұрын
If you posted this on 1 April, you could have had the Herald 'cast be about your Herald-level patrons. Brandon has said that he admires Orson Scott Card's writing. In Card's "A Thousand Deaths" the protagonist is repeatedly killed and resurrected, and becomes so inured to the pain and trauma that it ceases to have any effect him. This is the complete opposite of how Brandon's characters (at least on Roshar) experience it. On the other hand, Hoid has apparently spent a year being digested in a large stomach without being broken down like Jezrien.
@king_dot
2 жыл бұрын
Though in mistborn we also have someone who became immune to pain
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
I think Hoid was inside of one of the giant city crabs from the purelake, looking for something.
@carl11547
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShaunshankRedemption He could literally have been on any Cosmere world that has big animals, over a period of millennia since the Shattering.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
@@carl11547 yeah, but how many other worlds can support creatures of this size? It's the spren bond that allows them to grow to such massive size, as well as the increased oxygen levels relative to earth in our time.
@carl11547
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShaunshankRedemption Not that it's in the Cosmere, but ... Earth, for one. Also, Taldain. Also, Yolen. There are inevitably dozens of inhabited worlds in the Cosmere that we readers haven't seen.
@obadiahjohnson4358
2 жыл бұрын
Spoilers for the secret projects! Is Ashyn the planet nomad ends up on? It's a burning planet with pockets of survivors on floating cities. The Arcanum unbounded screen at 1:04:06 describes Ashyn as a very similar planet to the one nomad is on.
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
No, Brandon said it is a new location. -Eric
@obadiahjohnson4358
2 жыл бұрын
@@17thShard Ah, ok. Thanks Eric!
@adamklaits6379
2 жыл бұрын
13:15 But can we really trust what the Stormfather says given the Stormlight 5 Prologue?
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
We don't really know if that even was the stormfather. Personally I think it is ishar purely because he's driving gavilar to become a herald, and we know of only one person at that time who has the ability to alter the oathpact.
@adamklaits6379
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShaunshankRedemption For me, it comes down to which possibility is more narratively interesting. On one hand, we have the Stormfather -- a being we are well-aquainted with over several books and central to a main character's story -- not being entirely honest or trustworthy, potentially setting up a reveal towards the climax as to his true goal. On the other hand, we have Ishar -- a character who we've barely met -- doing something six years ago with a character who is now dead and which he has seemingly abandoned. To me, it is pretty clear which one is the more compelling story, and thus which one Brandon will go with.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
@@adamklaits6379 that's a good point, and for me it raises the question of the stormfather possibly having similar powers of connection to a bondsmith. Perhaps he wants to reforge the oathpact himself.
@marconeudecker6533
2 жыл бұрын
The Problem the Humans had in the first Desolation ist the same they have today (bevor antilight). You can defeed them in battle, but you can not end the war. The Fuesd are not only fighters they are althou Leaders and they wont agree to Peace. You have to stop them from returning or you have to eliminate all Singers.
@ElijahStormblessed
2 жыл бұрын
54:25 Literally, yes. I love this podcast for precisely this reason, it's the best! 😂
@jdrenner
2 жыл бұрын
Now Brandon needs to make a character name Luke.
@crypticpaisley88
2 жыл бұрын
The constant torture on Braize and the comment of learning to ignore the pain reminds me a lot of Elantris and Raoden. I wonder if Taln figured out some sort of secret of how to focus on something else the way Raoden did... though in that case, why wouldn't he teach the others? Not even sure what I'm trying to say, just the "can't die, eternal pain" thing made me think!
@patrickhill8494
2 жыл бұрын
My head cannon is that Taln was able to not break through focusing his mind on the mantra that has become the halmark of his insanity. It's similar to thr use of Buddhist mantras for focus and meditation.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, I think that taln is just a double hard bastard.
@Zekaz_Nohea
2 жыл бұрын
I just had a thought, perhaps the reason as to why the fused were so dangerous without the surges. Since it was pre-oathpact, the time it takes for them to possess a body could have been near instant. They could then have the regular singers grouped behind them, so that when one of the fused falls, it could immediately retake it's place on the battlefield. Which would result the fused learning rapidly about what mistakes to avoid in combat and the ability to take on the tired soldiers who just killed them.
@2thechase
2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm... Grace's comment about rhythm of storms got me thinking about the frequency of Highstorms. We know that they are somewhat predictable and they are highly invested. What if their frequency is related in some way to Honor's rhythm? Or if Odium rides them now, some function of their two rhythms/numbers?
@matiasbar
2 жыл бұрын
wow, hearing this, im thinking... the cognitives shadows are connected to a place, so ishar, or some, connect the cognitive shadows of fusionated to raise (the planet that they go when die in roshar), like a path of the pact with heralds. sry for my bad english and missnames hah
@oneukum
Жыл бұрын
57:00 Second thought, no Fused do not need bodies to stay on Roshar. Thunderclasts show the oposite.
@madisonshaw5216
2 жыл бұрын
Jess! Eric! The first one to reply to this gets homemade brownies (FROM SCRATCH) form the other
@parkernoyce4295
2 жыл бұрын
Might I also partake?
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't want to volun-told anyone, particularly Jess, for that :) You can't make a bet when neither of us are parties to it! Haha :) -Eric
@Valiguss
Жыл бұрын
I firmly believe that ash started the war and is the girl in the story shallan tells about the wall, the girl who looked up
@king_dot
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe the Isolation starts when the first herald dies
@MrJerajera
2 жыл бұрын
I definitely enjoy discussion about the obscure details, its the kind of things i wouldn't notice or forget about
@qixartthebondsmith2954
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think there are any lukes in the cosmere
@plusmanikantanr
2 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised if the "HonorBlades" were also "HonorSHIELDS" ... meaning when you slot in all the HonorBlades into the "OathPact" it activates the "Isolation" ... a Giant Shield against any Fused or VoidLight or Odium "leaking" back to Roshar. So that is why once even one of the "Links" in the Shield "dies" or gets destroyed ... Taln finally got kicked out of his resistance and the Fused could just migrate from Braize to Roshar as many times as they like due to the Everstorm and Jezrien totally destroyed.
@plusmanikantanr
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with Evgeni's idea of "Spirit Flesh" ... It is probably a giant Force-Field ... with Heralds as Sharp-shooters or stationary Artillery Hardpoints.... the Braized ( as opposed to Fused ) have to run across an icy field towards the Force-Field ... like Hoth Empire Strikes Back ... and try to bombard and collapse the Force-Field and destroy the Hard-Points ... obviously the Heralds can fire on each others positions and re-inforce their "Pact" and protecting the Force-Field and driving back the Braized.
@mcdcurtis
2 жыл бұрын
First that's not shardcast WOWOOOOO
@BrianTracy33
2 жыл бұрын
So excited for this, you guys always do great work. Thank you!
@MrJethroha
2 жыл бұрын
On what grounds would a Desolation actually be successful for Odium's forces? We know he doesn't want to kill all the humans necessarily, and he can't afford to risk all the Singers in the world or else the Fused become useless. Even if Odium killed everyone and everything on Roshar, he would still be trapped until the Oathpact was broken, so obviously he is directing his forces to that end, and the near annihilation of humanity upon each return is incidental. Whatever they thought would free Odium, the result is that there were pitched battles because there were specific things that the voidbringers wanted and the heralds had to deny them. What the plans were is uncertain, but I believe it probably has to do with the Unmade somehow, since unlike all the other minions of Odium they aren't sealed away on Braize during the isolation.
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
This is a really great point, because I have no idea. It's very vague and unclear what Team Odium would do to have victories from their POV. -Eric
@writingman1089
Жыл бұрын
I imagine that odium’s actual enemy is honor so his goal would be to make the radiants break their oaths which would injure honor (and potentially kill him?? Do we know the specifics of honor’s death?) So in that respect Odium did win, just not before the isolation happened. I imagine he thought this new desolation would be an easy victory before setting his sights on other shards but now the radiants are back despite honor’s death.
@radiantprime8336
2 жыл бұрын
Force Lightning
@datmarshy
2 жыл бұрын
Sooooo kelsier(kels-ee-aye?) theory. It isn’t super interesting/ it isn’t really a specific plot kind of theory.. It’s more of a general endgame type thing… or just a talking point, idk. And doesn’t seem worth mentioning, but i think there’s a giant chance it’s true, AND it could bring him(& therefore the Ghostbloods) to clash behind the scenes on every other world.. Brandon loves doing that parallel-tell the end at the beginning answer- storytelling… kelsier’s ‘people’ pretty much started the new desolation(yes, it would have happened anyways, but that goes along with the parallel). The ghost bloods also play both sides…. And I know we THINK the goal is to get Ba-ado-mishram for….something. But I think that’s just a side hustle. I think the ghostbloods&kelsier’s main goal is to LITERALLY just start $#!t. I think the goal was to just start the war. And therefore, I think the ghost bloods are just trying to start wars on other planets(except scadrial maybe). Not for money. Or for whatever Ba-Ado-Juice that Mraize says Kelsier wants….. I think it’s just the plain old plan from the very beginning of The Final Empire: start a war between the houses, so they weaken each other, and are too busy fighting each other to worry about us coming up…. Parallel being their starting fights between Shards&Planets&Species so Scadrial can get ahead unnoticed. I think that’s the grand ‘cosmere kelsier ghost on Roshar’ plan. And I think it’s a good narrative device on why the ghost bloods are just being little pricks across the cosmere; i think that’s how these shards are maybe coerced into fighting one another maybe; AND I THINK THATS WHATS BEHIND THE LOST NOVEL-i mean, Metal. Elendel and the outer rim, crap cities are being forced apart. We think it’s the Set… and that’s probably a better guess than this… but it could just be Kelsier starting a fight between two bigger Houses, so that his southern sxadrial can win. Holy moly! Kelsier is starting fights between stronger opponents on SO many levels. God bless lord Sanderson 🤙
@Nicklaus_Gaut
2 жыл бұрын
Great work, everyone.
@j.o.4574
2 жыл бұрын
Gator!!!!!
@Ssarevok
2 жыл бұрын
While watching, I realized something: with multiple wars spanning (presumalby) the entire world and involving (presumably) the entire world's population; and these wars being only a few months apart by the end... there can't have been all that many people OR singers left over. If this was followed by 4000 years of peace, I could imagine Roshar getting back up to it's current population, but not with all the following wars (False Desolation, Recreance, Hierocracy/Sunmaker). The only logical conclusion seems to me that, at least later Desolations, did NOT involve the entire world OR were mostly stalemates...
@patrickhill8494
2 жыл бұрын
While I prefer the idea of the barrier storm being wholly an Odium thing, Braize could literally be a planet like Jupiter, which has a metallic/rocky core that was just massive enough to pull leftover gas from the Sun's formation to it. Jupiter has the big famous Red Dot storm, but the entire planet is covered in gas moving at ridiculously high wind speeds.
@JeremyHoffman
2 жыл бұрын
I'm relieved that the superfans who study these books like it's they're job are just as confused about the mechanics/timing of the desolations as I am! I'm not sure if Brandon is keeping it a secret on purpose, or if the ideas he put into The Way of Kings turned out to not make sense, and now he's sort of reconning furiously.
@oneukum
Жыл бұрын
1:11:00 To Kelsier as a Cognitive Shadow Scadrrial's surface mapped to land.
@deathsride1818
2 жыл бұрын
Instead of Knights of Woeful Truth, how about Knights of Wind & Truth instead?
@Horsethe666
2 жыл бұрын
Re: 8:47 and the old magic being related to voidbinding - my secret theory is that the nightwatcher is not of cultivation, but of odium. Nightwatcher offered someone a sphere of voidlight, we dont get details like that without reason...
@Kabissz
2 жыл бұрын
Splinter, Sliver, Avatar should be a party/drinking game for Cosmere fans.
@koosman2903
2 жыл бұрын
I believe that the spren betrayal the singer people are talking about was specifically when the spren started forming the nahel bond with humans, creating the first knights radiant in an attempt to turn the tide of the desolations, even though the humans were not native to Roshar, but the singers were. This was before Honor died and he himself was in charge of approving each bond when a human said the correct words, a responsibility he shifted in the Stormfather shortly before his death. Perhaps Honor approached the spren for help at some stage and the spren agreed, on the condition that bonded humans swear the oaths
@RegulusFlaminius
2 жыл бұрын
Awesome episode, love when the big things about the magic system are discussed 🤘🏾🤘🏾🤘🏾
@drakedecker4874
2 жыл бұрын
@8:13. They were absolutely odium powered.
@Saint.Saint.Saint.
2 жыл бұрын
GIVE US THE NITTY GRITTY. WE LOVE THE NITTY GRITTY.
@j.o.4574
2 жыл бұрын
You guys are the best.
@drakedecker4874
2 жыл бұрын
Kaladin is going to Braize to buy time. Hide and seek. With orders to give up rather quickly once caught to not endanger his sanity. Probably happens at the end of the book. Huge strategic move. It will be Dalinar's gambit. But something huge would have to be put on the line.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
Nah he'll set up a mental health clinic on braize and really turn the place around. Those fused are really gonna change their ways after a few group therapy sessions.
@drakedecker4874
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShaunshankRedemption Its about time someone cleans up the place. I hear all sorts of bad things.
@RegulusFlaminius
2 жыл бұрын
Please check out David's face when Argent describes 'big suck' phenomenon 🤣🤣🤣
@RegulusFlaminius
2 жыл бұрын
It is at 56:03
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Quality reaction. I love it. -Eric
@randomuser6306
Жыл бұрын
Glad you don't have any pointless pronouns listed here. No one cared 6 months ago, no one cares today. Don't bow to the crazies.
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