"Traditional Catholicism" isn't a religion, but a consumer identity or a consumer demographic sold as a lifestyle. Catholicism is a religion. Stop treating Catholicism like you're in a high school clique, and instead have a heart as big as the world.
@PB_324
Ай бұрын
Not all but many of these folks do indeed appear to be Clicky. Some even to the point of Cultish. You see this more in the Evangelical world. Which isn't surprising as they are Protestant after all. The Home Church Movement started because these folks thought they knew better and saw themselves as the Elite " Remnant" They are also very Cloistered and cut off from the " Ebil World" That's not Christianity.
@charlesduke9750
Ай бұрын
Although traditionals exist in many countries, especially France, UK, Mexico and some others, this movement is overwhelmingly American.
@med4kmd
Ай бұрын
@OrdinaryCatholic:your rhetoric is VERY “NO” - meaning Novus Ordo.
@msj5885
Ай бұрын
@@charlesduke9750it truly isn't. I think it's your own worldview that's exclusively American.
@charlesduke9750
Ай бұрын
@@squirrelandowl7482 There is something interesting about all this problem. The let us say Traditionalist question is as I pointed out above, a fundamentally American problem, plus somewhat European, because the abuses of the Ordinary mass have occurred mainly in the US and in Europe. I live in a Latin American country and here the Ordinary mass is practically everywhere solemn, following the liturgy exactly, the priest dressed as he ought to and behaving as he ought to, and it is a wonderful experience beginning to end to participate in all the prayers and rites. I'm 63 and in all my life I've never witnessed what could be called abuses. Most churches are full in Sundays, even after in the last 30 years or so we have lost about half of our Catholic flock to the Evangelicals (which has nothing to so with the Ordinary mass but is another problem entirely).
@MarjorieBurns-gu9tf
Ай бұрын
The Catholic Church has about 21 different Rites. I went to a Byzantine Catholic Church. Part of the liturgy was in Old Church Slavonic, and you received Communion by the Priest, and you received with a spoon. If people want to go exclusively to a Traditional Latin Mass, and receive the Host kneeling and on the tongue, that is perfectly fine. The Church needs to recognize a new Rite within the Church, that people can go to. The Novus Ordo Mass and the Traditional Latin Mass are quite different types of liturgies, and that is OK. We are a big family and there is room for everyone. We who go to the Novus Ordo do not have to be dictators or control freaks. Let people go where they want.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
They can do that now without a new "Rite", different Rites can be celebrated in the same parish/cathedral we do it in Boston as the Cathedral will celebrate different Rites. These "traditionalists" are nothing more than protestants at this point, that's their belief as they clearly want nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
@MarjorieBurns-gu9tf
Ай бұрын
It seems you lump all of them together. All Novus Ordo Catholics are not alike. We are all Catholic, but the way the liturgies are celebrated are quite distinct. They have a right to celebrate the Vetus Ordo, I think that is the term I have heard. They have a right to their own parishes. We need to allow more freedom.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@MarjorieBurns-gu9tf My liturgy is sometimes celebrated in Swahili. We're all Catholic. No one has a right to their "own parish, that's an unhealthy view point.
@MarjorieBurns-gu9tf
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 You might be right. I listen to two people on utube who go to the Latin Mass, one is That Black Catholic Chick out of LA, CA, and the other is Decrevie Determined to be Catholic out of Ireland. His name is Robert Nugent. I think you would like them both.
@karlheven8328
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1How are they like protestants? And are you not putting them in a box by labeling them and not putting any blame on the ghettoization of tradition done since Paul VI. that was only reverted with Summorum Pontificum?
@monicamohan4720
Ай бұрын
I did not grow up in the TLM. It is simply where I believe that I was to attend and where I finally found that connection with Jesus. This had nothing to do with finding my roots. It was where I finally found a union with Jesus.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@monicamohan4720 No one did depending on your age. Jesus is also very much in the ordinary form. If you can't accept that, then are you really a Catholic or are you just being selfish?
@monicamohan4720
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 How is going where I believe God is leading me and finding His love there selfish? I truly don't understand your need to have everyone think as you do...I would never judge the heart of another - no matter where they attend.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@monicamohan4720 It's about being obedient to the Magisterium and the common good. We find connection in the Eucharist, as Catholics. Mass is Mass.
@monicamohan4720
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 I attend a Mass...the TLM. How is that not being obiedant?
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@monicamohan4720 when you complain that the NO isn't good enough for you ..
@scottfritzwallcreations1857
Ай бұрын
You are right on point.
@marekeos
Ай бұрын
100% agree. To add more, I wasn't born in the US, but came here as a child and often listen to foreign Catholic shows. They point out that the American "spirit of rebellion" is driving these groups into various forms of schism. There is a major disobedience problem here. Particularly cringy are the American self appointed "saviors of the church" who mainly live off youtube.
@romariomendes9366
Ай бұрын
I am not against Americans but i see the trend where Americans make all their problems the world's problems and everyone must be preoccupied with solving them 'even in the Church'. I agree there are abuses during certain NO Masses but isn't the divisiveness over the celebration of the Eucharist almost if not totally sacrilegious. I come from India and almost was never introduced to the TLM until i moved to Europe. But I can tell you if the ordinary Mass had not happened or the Vatican II hadn't happened most of Africa and Asia would not grow in the faith. It was and is the Holy Spirit who works!!
@RedRiverMan
Ай бұрын
As an African American Catholic I agree!
@gedat5538
Ай бұрын
I have served "Traditionalists" for 4.5 years under the order of my Bishop. Those were the worst years of my life; they were my purgatory! A real bunch of self-righteous hypocrites! Not only against Vatican II but everything according to their preconceived ideas of a bygone age. Vigano is a true picture picture of the "Traditionalist"!
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@gedat5538 Thanks for sharing. It seems the extraordinary form where I live is offered as one of the Mass options in regular parishes works, including in the Cathedral here with our being against everything. I'm just about to upload a video on it.
@chuckrangel7207
Ай бұрын
This girl has no clue what she is talking about in terms of Catholic theology. Culture has no basis in a discussion of faith ! ! ! Clueless !
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@chuckrangel7207 Thanks for calling me a girl, when I'm an old lady. I stand by my assessment though.
@dank3435
Ай бұрын
Archbishop Pozzo of the Holy See - who has been the point man in attempting to bring the SSPX back into the Church - recently affirmed: “The priests and bishops of the Society of St. Pius X nonetheless exercise their ministry illicitly and illegitimately.” Cardinal Burke also recently stated that the SSPX “is not part of the one Roman Catholic Church throughout the world.” Mr. McCall is also surely aware of these weighty and consequential statements.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@dank3435 I was reading this article that SSPX residents in their civic appointments have closed down the municipal pool and public golf course because of "modesty" concerns. kansasreflector.com/2024/07/11/in-this-kansas-town-an-insular-catholic-sect-leaves-some-residents-feeling-left-out/
@eldragon4076
Ай бұрын
True. America has become a one giant shopping mall, where everyone is invited. There is nothing sacred.
@TheLeonhamm
Ай бұрын
Spot on, OC; sad, but true. The errors of Modernism - the following of a fashion of the time - are at work even in those who like to be called 'Traditionalists'. Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek (even in wild laughter at their own futility under Christ Jesus). God bless. ;o)
@vbottoni
Ай бұрын
preach
@ThomasWeldon-jx6vx
Ай бұрын
Here's a simple test that you can use to determine the "Catholicity" of a particular parish, at least in the cities. This is a test that is outside the box, but it is fairly accurate. I know as I have seen it work for decades. Many such churches have an abortuary, often within blocks of the church, sometimes even right across the street. Typically, the Traditional or Traditionalist churches (including those that are indeoendent), do more to try to save the babies that are murdered there than the leadership of the pure Novus Ordo parishes. Why is this? Simple. They care more if those babies live or die. As a sidewalk counselor for most years since 1990, having been at 33 locations in five states, and seen about 20,000 women get abortions, I know a litrle about this. The more Traditional a parish is, the more they tend to put out effort to save babies. The less Traditional they are, the more likely they are to smile, think happy thoughts, sing their hymns a little louder (only a few will get that reference there), and think they are all doing just so great in their parish, while babies are getting their heads chopped off down the street. I've seen how both Catholic and Protestant churches betray Christ and His little ones by not lifting a finger to save them. They give all sorts of excuses, but in the end, it's all about just not wanting to take a risk and be out there for the mothers and children. Now, this is not true for all. Most Catholic sidewalk counselors have or do attend the Novus Ordo, but that's largely because there are just more of them out there. I'm talking about on a parish level. The more Traditional a church is, the more they typically do to save babies' lives. The less Traditional the church is, the more likely they are to have an attitude of "Eh, we're prolife in our thoughts, and we vote. That's enough." And they proceed to do nothing and let the babies be killed. What about it, Ordinary Catholic? Got any thoughts on this?
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@ThomasWeldon-jx6vx My response would be here. kzitem.info/news/bejne/1mNpuph3e6uhanYsi=c46CARVW_yOk9xee
@constitutionman9026
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 I'm writing this on my computer now, which has a different account. I am the same writer as the above. This does not tell anything about the lack of support for pro-life, the lack of support for women that is in so many Novus Ordo churches today. I'll name one. St. Vincent de Paul Catholic Church near downtown Los Angeles. Arguably the most beautiful Catholic church in all of Los Angeles. It's a local landmark that has been used in Hollywood films. Go inside and you think it must be some superhuge Trad church because it has altar rails (which they don't use) and a whole bunch of other things. What existed right across the street on Figueroa for so many years, so close that Tom Brady could throw a football from the church grounds and have it land near the front door? Her Medical Clinic, a notorious abortion mill. We had a Rosary group out there consisting mostly of people from out of the area. Mostly Trads. Just a couple older women from the parish, and one nun. We faced off against a mob of radical pro-aborts, most of whom were involved in the indepedent film and entertainment industry, some of whom were in the Satanic Temple. Some produced independent films involving drug use and horrific rape and murder of women, posting these films to Facebook. They acted as "escorts" and friends of women coming there, but then, when they thought no one was investigating, they would create these films of rape and murder of women. But...did we get any real support from the pastor? Nope. We got use of their parking lot for our cars and space to store signs, and that was it. One priest did come to do a decade of the Rosary with us once, and for that we were grateful. But most priests and lay people at Novus Ordo parishes don't go out to the local abortuaries because they don't care. I pleaded twice with the pastor there, and he gave excuses, saying he encouraged people to go but could not force them. There was no Respect Life committee there. There were no calls on the bulletin board in the vestibule to go out there with our Rosary group. And I feel certain he never bothered to mention it in his sermons. This is not just with one church. This is across the board. This is everywhere in America, in both Protestant and Catholic churches. Some of the Protestant "churches" are openly pro-abortion. Most of the rest are led by quislings. I appealed to a Protestant mega church in Los Angeles. They had an abortion mill just nine blocks away. A woman who was a drug addict had recently been brought there, forced into going against her will, by a so-called caretaker who was very suspicious. We became to wonder if she was not a victim of human trafficking as she screamed bloody murder about being starved and being forced to go there against her will. She fell face first onto the pavement outside. At one point she screamed so loud at the front door, saying "It's against God's will" so loud it could be heard across the nearby intersection. This Protestant church sent missionaries to Africa. Do you think they took up the offer to begin sidewalk counseling when asked? No, what did they do? They said they had a committee which approved all new outreaches, and they always did it with the support of the local authorities, the local politicians. In other words, since the Los Angeles city government was pro-abortion, they would not help. They preferred to not help drug-addicted mothers forced into abortions. They said they might help in the future. I responded and said, no, you won't. And I laid out the reasons why. I told them the truth that they were refusing simply because they didn't want to. That was the truth. They didn't want to. That's the attitude of Protestant churches like theirs and most Novus Ordo parishes. Not all, but most. They don't care. They prefer for others to do the work, while they pat themselves on the back, say to themselves they are pro-life in their minds, and think that voting every few years is enough. I knew a family who drove all the way from Bakersfield to Los Angeles every week for five years to sidewalk counsel and pray. That's 220 miles round trip, one time. Every week for five years. 20% of the way to the Moon. And they were Protestants. I once saw an 89-year old Carmelite nun sitting with a sign and praying the Rosary outside a mill at 7 AM in the morning. I once knew a woman named Georgia who had so much energy that she saved a baby nearly every time she was out there. She sidewalk counseled for 35 years, saving about 1000 babies. She developed severe osteoporosis, but she kept going for many years. Here was this woman, bent over at nearly 90 degrees, saving babies, while priests at the Novus Ordo parishes and Protestant pastors did nothing. I was present at her funeral. Some of the babies she saved were adults by then and were her pall bearers. This is the negative side of the spirit of Modernism, that it gives a greater tendency to ignoring women in crisis situations, giving lip service to prolife while doing nothing in actual practice to help them. Don't tell me I'm wrong on this. I've seen it at 33 locations in five states, including California, Texas, Florida, Virginia, and Wisconsin. The Catholic churches that are more Traditional, even Traditionalist, are the ones who care more about babies and their mothers. It's true everywhere. The Novus Ordo parishes? OK, Blessed Sacrament in Westminster did an excellent job in getting out the word about the dangers of Prop 1, and has had a procession to the local Planned Parenthood on at least one occasion. But overall, they don't do anything sustaining about that local mill. It's usually ignored. Same thing is true for most Novus Ordo parishes across America, all because they are all infected with the same Modernist spirit of doing nothing, a spirit which is cowardly, is selfish, is not of God, and is to be condemned.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@constitutionman9026 Sidewalk counseling is the type of ministry very few people can do well. I know of one woman who does it well and she attends the Cathedral in Boston, usually women who have had abortion themselves, usually under the coercion that you describe seem to do best as pro-life sidewalk counselors. Weirdly enough we had Pro-Choice activists recently protest a pro-life ministry that wasn't even a clinic, it was just office space adjacent to a parish that had diapers, clothes, and baby furniture/car seats.
@constitutionman9026
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 Sidewalk counseling is not the only ministry one can even do in prolife, even in front of the abortuaries. Men have a natural disadvantage, but you can also just pray outside of a mill, and almost anybody can do that. The only cases where I think a person might have a good reason not to include if they are just working so much that they literally have no time for it, are not in good enough health, have a baby themselves, or are working in pro-life in another way, such as working at a crisis pregnancy center. But just believing that one would not do it well is no excuse. I was a 19 year old with no experience when I began in 1990, and a man at that. I had been doing it only a few months, when one day I showed up and all the other pro-lifers left for various reasons within five minutes. Some of them were taking a woman to His Nesting Place, the local crisis pregnancy center and maternity home, as she had changed her mind. I was left alone, and very nervous. A young Asian couple pulled up, and I didn't say anything to them. I just handed them a brochure to His Nesting Place. They went inside. A few minutes later they came out. They didn't say anything to me. They just came out and left. A week later I found out from those who had taken the lady to His Nesting Place that, shortly after they showed up, an Asian couple had come and said they had been directed there. It was my first turnaround, and I had to do nothing but be a body standing there and hand out a brochure. Most people CAN do it. It's just a matter of will. But most prefer their Saturday morning TV shows. The mill is 100 miles away? The family from Bakersfield drove 110 to be there, and 110 to go back. So, if you have a car, you can do it. You're 70 years old? That Carmelite nun was out there at 7 AM and she was 89. The pastor and his wife of His Nesting Place church have been doing their ministry for 41 years, putting to shame all Catholic priests, Novus Ordo or otherwise, as well as bishops who don't lift a finger to help the women in need. Yes, I am saying bishops should be out there in front of the mills as well. At least for an hour, maybe once a month. All of them, everyone single one with the health to do it. And there is no excuse for any parish in America that has a mill in its boundaries to not have, at minimum 10, and better 20 or 30 people out there every week. Not all at once, but at least a few at any given time.
@arcakahn
Ай бұрын
You need to study what actually happened in and around the council. Read Fr. Murr’s book Murder in the 33rd Degree.
@atlas944
Ай бұрын
I just cannot wrap my head around this thought process. Regardless of what happened or didn’t happen at the council, who are any of us to question the ways of the Holy Spirit? God has always allowed things to occur that we cannot understand because He has the plan. Not us. Why should we worry at all?
@peterarsenault2671
Ай бұрын
Yes but.... Things are so watered down in so many churches with watered down sermons and so many Priests treating their ,what was once a calling, to now running their church/churches like a business that some parishioners have become exhausted. I can understand how a small group have " self identified" as you call it to wanting be traditionalists. They have a point. Not only do l get it but l feel it. I don't think the problem is with this element of the laity at this point. If so, then why are the majority of Marion apparitions and of Our Lord not concerning this "group" of traditionalist traitors or rebels? It seems to Them that the issues are coming from higher up. Much higher! The problem is MUCH more complex than your explanation has the answer for. God Bless.
@andrewstahl3531
Ай бұрын
Americanism itself is definitely an issue as well. There is an overemphasis of individualism and "freedom". Everyone wants to be there own pope and everyone thinks they are George Washington.
@ApatiEktetheimenos
Ай бұрын
The PROBLEM is something you do not understand. What is the ONE THING that caused Jesus to become so angry with the religious leaders that He called them a bunch of snakes, and white washed tombs full of dead men's bones?? For Jesus to be THAT angry, took ONE thing they did..... When you figure that out, and it is all in the Scriptures, then you know what the PROBLEM really is inside the Roman Catholic Church.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@ApatiEktetheimenos so what's your ministry in the parish?
@ApatiEktetheimenos
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 Please answer the question asked! What made Jesus THAT furious?
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@ApatiEktetheimenos How is this relevant to the video? My channel - I don't have answer questions, especially irrelevant ones Just say what Jesus was angry about, because I suspect ill-intent on your part.
@ApatiEktetheimenos
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 You came here to the Public making a serious claim that the problem isn't the Roman Catholic Church but actually, it is. For centuries the RCC has added the traditions of men onto the Word of God. When Vatican II formed, it was due to this Problem. They voted. They choose to believe the Traditions of the Church over Biblical Doctrine. Therefore, you got a lot of carnal Christians, lots of Catholics who drink like a fish on Saturday night then "go to mass" on Sunday thinking they are forgiven. Worse, they are taught they can go to "purgatory" and be saved. That is not Christian Life. The ONE THING that made Jesus SO ANGRY with those leaders of His day, is because they did what the RCC has done for centuries. They added so many traditions on to the simplicity of the Gospel, that they rendered the Word of God null and void. Study Mark 7. I do not have ill-intent. I hate frauds. I hate sin. I hate when the devil manipulates people into superstition and tradition, and it costs them their eternal soul. There is no purgatory. You have once short lifetime to come to know the Person Jesus, yet the RCC teaches billions to pray to Mary and to pray to saints and pray in vain repetitions and to "do mass" which employs the FALSE doctrine of Transubstantiation. SILLY MADE UP LIES that Jesus leaves Heaven physically to become "a host", all to be sacrificed again and again every time some "priest" thinks he can call Jesus from Heaven to enter a cracker and a drop of grape juice. That is SUPERSTITION and an ABOMINATION to Holy God. If you think that is your salvation, you simply are bound for hell.
@puppetsenpai739
Ай бұрын
100% agree from an outsider who lives and was born in the UK.
@msj5885
Ай бұрын
Not surprising at all. I'm in the UK and I see three dimensional expressions of your benighted comment every time I go to mass.
@puppetsenpai739
Ай бұрын
@@msj5885 lol you don't even know me, I have conservative views and I'm a young devout Catholic
@ARM1NIUS
Ай бұрын
Your rejection of orthodoxy is disturbing. Fortunately, the cringy, milquetoast, boomer mass known as the Novus Ordo is dying and the reverent Tridentine Mass is growing. Cope and seethe.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@ARM1NIUS your comment proves my point, you reference Catholicism from this American Consumerist point of view seeing individuals in their demographic. Ironically the TLM is the "Boomer" Mass. Catholicism is a global religion of all nations and creeds going to the peripheries geographically speaking. The Church is thriving under Vatican II, it's America itself that's in decline and going backwards to a preconceived notion of "Traditionalism" to a nostalgia that never was isn't the answer.
@alexwalker3422
Ай бұрын
But Vatican II isn't the full teachings of the Catholic Church. In fact, it was pastoral and not doctrinal.
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@alexwalker3422 The whole reason why a council is convened is for the purpose of regulation and doctrine. "There are many ways one can describe or define a Church council, but the Catholic Encyclopedia defines councils as “legally convened assemblies of ecclesiastical dignitaries and theological experts for the purpose of discussing and regulating matters of church doctrine and discipline.” www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-authority-of-ecumenical-councils
@alexwalker3422
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 I get the definition of a council, and I agree that it satisfies the definition, but to say it's the full teachings of the Catholic Church is either hyperbolic or false because there are lots of teachings that weren't discussed in Vatican II because they were resolved in other councils.
@monicamohan4720
Ай бұрын
@@alexwalker3422 I caught that too...that statement alone shows how ignorant she is about the Catholic Faith.
@IgnacioMolina-bd3wt
Ай бұрын
Could not have said it better, thank you for sharing
@rubenangelvarisco9719
Ай бұрын
The root cause is Vatican II As Viganò claims. He is the voice of God nowadays
@OrdinaryCatholic1
Ай бұрын
@@rubenangelvarisco9719 I appreciate your comment for algorithm purposes, but I disagree with your assessment.
@donut9719
Ай бұрын
Vigano is excommunicated. Very dangerous to call him the "voice of God"
@rubenangelvarisco9719
Ай бұрын
@@OrdinaryCatholic1 Ok I'm not disagree with myself
@carolinabarcelos6639
Ай бұрын
i thought the traditional catholics problem with vatican II is that it explicitly says that catholics worship the same God of abraham as jews and muslims. which is far from true. the God of the old testament was, is, and always will be trinitarian. jews don’t believe this, and muslims don’t believe this. i’m a protestant, but i’m currently in the process of becoming orthodox. i considered both orthodoxy and catholicism (am still learning a lot about both) but because of things like papal infallibility and vatican II i cannot fully agree with catholicism. i am open to be educated on the matter if i am wrong, but that is the main critique i have heard of vatican II from traditional catholics.
@martin-458
Ай бұрын
Have you read the documents of Vatican II in full? For example, this is what Lumen Gentium states about the muslims: "these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." I think the word profess here is very important. These things are easy to overlook when reading the documents, I think many catholics would agree. Regarding papal infallibility, this is under very limited circumstances when the pope speaks ex cathedra on faith and morals which I'm sure you're aware of. This does not mean that the pope is infallible when he is being interviewed on an airplane, for example. It doesn't say that he will be perfect, making no mistakes, but we are protected from any new (erroneous) doctrine. I hope and pray that you keep looking into the teachings of the Catholic Church. Just as a recommendation, Tim Gordon, a traditional catholic, was interviewed on Pints With Aquinas , and in that show they go over why catholics can't reject Vatican II. Maybe that video can help you out on your journey. Hope this helps, may the Lord bless you.
@NineInchTyrone
Ай бұрын
Marxist Lavender Church 😂
@sacrebleu-pj4ds
Ай бұрын
If you don't think the CC is a problem, then you don't know that much about Catholicism.
@NineInchTyrone
Ай бұрын
Tella da Pope
@Kamon67
Ай бұрын
TLM are too rigid and focus too much on HOW to receive the Eucharist more than the Eucharist itself. Its like giving a gift to someone who just focus on how its wrapped than the gift that it contain..
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