Tldr: plot driven transformations vs marketing driven transformations
@shawns3347
5 ай бұрын
I couldn’t agree with this comment more! 100%
@StevenJones851
5 ай бұрын
Agreed
@ggemcee5903
4 ай бұрын
At the same time though. Goku and vegeta got their SSJ1 by themselves without any outside help. God was made from a ritual which I guess makes sense, but I don’t hate blue considering they already had super saiyan and god which is just a combination of the two and they were being trained by literal gods and angels to achieve that transformation
@yoh-tu4zm
4 ай бұрын
@@ggemcee5903 ssjbe ssjgui ui mui perfect blue muisusano true ui beast just a lot of bullshit forms for no reason dawg ssjg and blue where fine but none of this shi makes sense anymore but hey atlest its fun
@jamespascua3685
4 ай бұрын
@@yoh-tu4zmwhat do you mean? Only beast doesn't makes sense?
@andydossantosloureiro3735
3 ай бұрын
"In 2 movies, we got 2 new forms. That's way too fast" - sums it up pretty good
@NigelsPad
2 ай бұрын
God should have been THE form for Super. Also the fact God is skinnier compliments Toriyama's new artstyle of drawing characters skinnier than he did before. By the time UI came along enough time would have passed.
@narusaku_forever1219
Ай бұрын
Yea like ssj4 in gt and ssj5 in af @@NigelsPad
@metalhandboi6681
6 ай бұрын
I really loved GT for how Super Saiyan 4 was portrayed. Instead of the Super route where they'd unlock a new form and it became redundant quickly, 4 was the peak of power in GT and nothing above it- minus Fusion of course. It just felt like this immovable power whereas a godly state of Super Saiyan just felt... average.
@Santzu_
6 ай бұрын
Peak of power sure, but Goku used ssj4 against everyone, literally had to transform to lift a building
@DADRB0B55
6 ай бұрын
@Santzu Because he was a child still, after he first unlocked SS4 it should have permanently reverted his body back to an adult especially since people were tired of kid Goku
@Santzu_
6 ай бұрын
@@DADRB0B55 Yeah because Goku was definitely a normal kid right? GT kid Goku is still a multi star buster, he should not need to transform to lift a building
@harpybeagle4931
6 ай бұрын
on the contrary i feel no one has a bad thing to say about SSJ4 whereas to me i feel like i should scrutinize it in some form SSJ4 is mostly praised for returning saiyans back to their primal roots, but tbh besides its origins in the Great Ape forms, its got very little difference again w the Super forms w being "another stronger one". Functionally its just a way to keep Goku in his adult form again and alot of Oozaru elements arent really utilized. Secondly, I feel that returning to "saiyan roots" is a misstep in the characters of both Goku and Vegeta. Like they use their genetics and pretenatural talents to get stronger sure, but by now hardly any part of their growth is related to being a Saiyan. Goku spent his whole childhood adventures barely living up to any Saiyan and hes so much stronger than any Saiyan in both GT and Super that his lineage doesnt even matter anymore. Same goes for Vegeta really, that royal blood hasnt done him good since the Saiyan saga, every other meaningful step in his growth was outside the Saiyan heritage. The martial arts angle of post Broly DB Super of largely similar power levels, but different mindsets like UI and UE are probably exactly what i wouldve done and what i feel r perfect ways to progress either goku or vegeta.
@Drumicall
6 ай бұрын
@@Santzu_ L
@cayletalks
3 ай бұрын
The forms these days feel like the fan fictions we'd find in the late 2000's when googling things like "super saiyan 5" etc, between UI, UE, Beast, Orange Piccolo, it's all stuff that would've looked fake back then
@marvinwatkins8745
2 ай бұрын
I 100% agree
@shlap_cam23
2 ай бұрын
Bruv I honestly wish the fan fictions at least would've been given an opportunity cuz sum designs looked sick, my gripe with dB is not seeing these monkeys with different hair styles when they went God mode
@jacobtaylor7506
2 ай бұрын
Lol, I remember ss5 was silver hair , saw Gohan beast form and thought, "Man these guys ran out of ideas and start tapping into the fanfics."
@Tetronus
2 ай бұрын
Gohan Blanco WAS a fanfic... So
@tetravega567
Ай бұрын
Yeah, all the old SSJ 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, etc I remember when Super Saiyan Red/Blue/White/Purple was just fan art.
@-perry
6 ай бұрын
The people who work on Dragon Ball Super (at least the show and manga) saw that Z introduced a new SS form every arc, copied that, but didn’t understand why, and didn’t understand that they need to show the training they went through.
@josend
4 ай бұрын
And not only that. Every sayan transformation was a result of an emotional trauma. Somebody had to DIE so that a transformation could happen. The stakes where much higher before
@dragonballsupersaiyans4482
4 ай бұрын
Yea and they really used every form in the best way but DBS a new villian appears that somehow beats the best form out of nowhere.
@ripper_madness
4 ай бұрын
@@josend thing is god ki is a new route. Ofc its not going to require emotion to transform when the whole point of it is about control.
@ripper_madness
4 ай бұрын
Also this comment is straight up wrong. Every form in DBS has training that led up to them.
@falafelminister7936
4 ай бұрын
don't let it bother you man. z stans like to come up with the most nonsensical head canons and act like they're objective facts@@ripper_madness
@ZinoAmare
3 ай бұрын
It’s not even about martial arts no more it’s about who has the prettiest hair
@ReBolt590
Ай бұрын
It was never about martial arts Not even in db where at the start Goku learns to shoot fuking lasers
@jym2r
Ай бұрын
@@ReBolt590 there was still a big martial arts aspect with goku and krillin training under roshi, goku traveling around the land meeting various martial artists and then participating in a martial arts tournament. there was a lot of goofiness like lazers and a fat fart man but there were real spectacular fights like goku vs krillin, goku vs tien
@ReBolt590
Ай бұрын
@@jym2rin their training roshi never taught them martial arts he just physically trained them, plus in the world tournament there were strippers
@jym2r
Ай бұрын
@@ReBolt590 nice man way to ignore my other 2 points
@ReBolt590
Ай бұрын
@@jym2r my bad I didn't click read more
@SonKosen
6 ай бұрын
I wish we got more techniques and less power ups, also R.I.P Akira Toriyama
@TheJadeFist
6 ай бұрын
Agreed. Unique abilities are more interesting vs just can destroy planets easier than they already could. But only if the abilities actually matter and aren't the guy "I've restrained the enemy" the enemy just powers through it by screaming really loud.
@thebrightestknight6714
6 ай бұрын
I mean, we still got a lot of techniques too. Goku learn Ultra Instinct, Mafuba, and briefly learns hakai in the manga's goku black arc , while Vegeta learns spirit fission, instant transmission, Ultra Ego, etc. Honesly, there was more of a focus on techniques here than in DBZ. The only techniques goku learns in DBZ is spirit bomb and instant transmision, and vegeta exclusively only learns new forms instead of techniques in DBZ
@shanebluesky7452
6 ай бұрын
Agreed it shouldn't be about rainbow colors. That's why the og super saiyans are still best ss1,ss2,ss3 and ss4.
@Lameperson745
6 ай бұрын
@@thebrightestknight6714kaioken?
@tomasguilherme263
6 ай бұрын
@@thebrightestknight6714 goku does not learn hakai he tries to do it once and fails and never tries again, mafuba he learn, used once and never tried it again, ui as a technique was great, but they gave it white hair and made it a transformation so its not a technique in the end. vegeta (not only all those things are from manga and the video is about the anime) but he doesnt know how to use instant transmision, he used it once and said he would not be capable of doing it again, spirit fission was used once and was just a plot device to save earth, 0 use after that fight i even forgot he had that until now, ego is a transformation, instead of spamming blue vegeta now spams ego, in the end its the same shit but diferent colour (the more damage i take stronger i get is bad since vegeta ends up taking to much damage and passes out). so yeah we have almost no techniques and too many forms that are all to similar, just a diferent hair colour.
@ronathan02
6 ай бұрын
Honestly the SSG form was a missed opportunity to let non-Saiyans catch up a bit in power. I like the idea that the first God form Goku attains is a completely new form detached from Super Saiyan, and throughout Super he can try and combine the two ability (which creates the blue form) I don’t think there’s too many forms, I just think they feel way too easily gained now. It should be more of a struggle for these power ups to happen but they honestly seem like random chance.
@arezhik7774
Ай бұрын
Yeah like the Saiyin's from the 6th universe?!? In less than a year's time in the Super story, 6th Universe Saiyans go from not knowing what Super Saiyan is to being able to transform forms 1 (Champa/Beerus tournament) and then later 2 (ToP arc) in literally minutes.
@Flossy2K.
6 ай бұрын
What I liked about GT is that ssj4 was the best form, but Goku would still be losing to villains even in that form. The way to overcome villains wasn’t to get a form stronger than ssj4, it was with strategy & the idea that everybody has a weakness. Figuring out the villain’s weakness & exploiting it is usually what gave the win. Not including fusion of course. They could go back to beating villains with that recipe so forms don’t become monotonous
@michaeldoerrler2363
6 ай бұрын
It's not like Goku already fought energy-absorbing androids in the cell saga and should realize Super 17 has that ability quickly instead of repeatedly using ki blasts and not even trying melee attacks.
@kaienglish271
6 ай бұрын
Goku doesn’t win in SSG ,SSBK or Ui when first introduced. Vegeta doesn’t win with UE so. The only person Goku beat with tactics was 17
@nerdcorner2680
4 ай бұрын
This is really tough. Dragon Ball is about self improvement, with becoming the best being the prize for that. When you lose the prize, the message gets a bit lost. I personally think ToP played with the idea better by making Jiren represent Goku’s goal of becoming the strongest, but Goku rejects Jiren’s method by doing it alone, so he requires help to win. With GT it missed that extra layer of subtext to connect back to the premise
@Bingo_the_Pug
4 ай бұрын
That’s correct, but also realize that new forms=new merchandise. They can’t sell toys based off of techniques & maneuvers, but they can sell another Goku with purple hair. The bulk of Dragon Ball profit that Toei rakes in will always be in the toys, statues, etc.
@John_II
3 ай бұрын
Agreed. To me that was classic Dragon Ball - you kind of had to outsmart your opponent, master a new technique and then use it wisely. It wasn't just "who is stronger now?".
@steelshorts5218
6 ай бұрын
R.I.P. Akira Toriyama
@phantaflame2889
6 ай бұрын
Stop using his death to milk likes now please
@eeeeee4414
6 ай бұрын
@@phantaflame2889He’s not
@phantaflame2889
6 ай бұрын
@@eeeeee4414 People are just commenting it on every single video now. Don’t get me wrong, love Akira and everything he’s done for us but I can tell when these things slowly begin to shift where people only comment it because they know it’ll get them likes
@brad377
6 ай бұрын
@@phantaflame2889You get the rights to use that logic in 5 more days For now it's aceptable and you're just overreacting, like dude. 💀
@brad377
6 ай бұрын
Using someone's death to get likes on videos is absolutely fucked up and all but they get nothing from saying "Rest in peace Toriyama" on comments. No fame whatsoever just a random comment on a random video.
@Jediknight404
6 ай бұрын
Maybe this is just me being cynical, but I think a big contributing factor to why we have so many new forms in Super is to help with toy sales. Edit: Good to know I'm not being cynical.
@sigiligus
6 ай бұрын
It also keeps, let’s face it, stupid people invested in the series. Why bother with good writing when the fanbase will spawn a million videos overnight about “how strong is the new form? Can he beat Beerus?? What’s the multiplier??? Does this colour represent the rage of a Tibetan monk when his balls itch just before he reaches enlightenment????” It’s pathetic. Consoom new form and get excited for next form.
@Tropicality.
6 ай бұрын
@@sigiligus dragon ball super fans are such stimulation depraved monkeys it ain’t even funny :(
@tonetalks7484
6 ай бұрын
That’s not even being cynical its the literal truth
@Tropicality.
6 ай бұрын
@@sigiligus idk if a new form is coming due to recent news…
@RealComixx
6 ай бұрын
@@sigiligusok and? Do you seriously think Dragon Ball would be as entertaining if they were all constantly base? Goku getting UI broke the internet for a reason. The forms are interesting. True they didn’t know how to handle moving from God to Blue correctly but thats like the one issue
@brandonking5111
6 ай бұрын
“Super Saiyan 3 never won a fight” Wrath of the Dragon: Am I a joke to you?
@StevenJones851
6 ай бұрын
It's sad that Movie is overlooked
@XenoVerse_Goku
6 ай бұрын
When they hit you with the "its non canon" (Iam currently holding a gun to my head)
@brandonking5111
6 ай бұрын
@@XenoVerse_Goku there are several different Dragon Ball continuities, so it is canon. the question is which canon does it fit into? the answer is GT canon since Goku uses the Dragon Fist in both stories. it also fits nicely into the 10 year time skip between the fight with Kid Buu and the fight with Uub.
@DADRB0B55
6 ай бұрын
@brandonking5111 yeah he is just calling out the stereotypical reply canontards always come up with, which is funny because they honestly don’t even know the real “canon” as much as they want to claim usually they skipped the OG dragonball & only watched Z & super.
@Cody-ps3wy
6 ай бұрын
Yeah definitely and before someone says “ oH BuT iTS nOt CAnoN” shut up it still counts and your opinion on it not being canon doesn’t count
@RockSensation119
Ай бұрын
The problem was the power scaling. They achieve "God ki", take it to a super saiyan level, and still have a hard time fighting people. Didn't make sense
@a.dackee9737
6 ай бұрын
I have a love hate relationship with the forms cause I liked how originally the super saiyan forms had grades and each grade had their own draw backs and advantages But I honestly don’t see or feel the difference in super saiyan blue from just regular super saiyan’s. To many of the forms are just “it makes you stronger and nothing else like beast gohan, I love gohan but it’s just like…..what? Like what does this do? But here comes the love cause broly’s forms are what actually feels like a natural saiyan evolution, harnessing the power of the great ape while in human form was honestly one of the most delicious bits of saiyan lore we’ve ever gotten cause the great ape form rocks and GT was right to incorporate it into the super forms. And things like ultra instinct & ego, they actually operate on different mentalities and actively changes how the user fights. With ultra instinct being more evasive and ego being a giant pain sponge
@JabYT1
6 ай бұрын
The rapidness of the new forms is literally just to sell merch. That’s why they’re just palette swaps. It’s simple, change the hair color from yellow to blue to silver. And fans eat that shit up.
@MrREAPERsz
3 ай бұрын
Yeah it's corny as hell. Super Saiyan blue is the worst.
@OezgeSebisteri
4 ай бұрын
Once they switched from red to blue it started becoming ridiculous.
@jaboibrodie1687
3 ай бұрын
I think the rediculousness is in the names "Super Saiyan god" "super Saiyan god super Saiyan" Literally just call it Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God
@gastondelacaze4863
3 ай бұрын
Already red (with no apparent change, just the color) was ridiculous
@adonis699
3 ай бұрын
And Rosé 😂
@Hansdaddyslim
3 ай бұрын
I think they should have given Vegeta SSG the traditional way through the ritual to fight resurrected Frieza, it was dumb there was no build up to blue other than “training”
@SupaNoopa
2 ай бұрын
@@gastondelacaze4863 no bro ur hating for hate, you wanted him to become Silver Oozaru with 3 eyes and spit fire ?
@nerdcorner2680
4 ай бұрын
Its so annoying just how close a lot of these forms get to being really good. Dragon ball forms now need to be unique to stand out from the rest, and have a reason to exist. Super never quite hits both at the same time and it’s so frustrating. God - needs a ritual to get to, which clashes with Goku’s character, which is great. Makes the form unique by using God Ki which is great. But then God Ki never gets any depth, and Goku has regular ki in God form…for some reason. The manga and ToP anime try to make it a little bit more unique, but it is too little too late Blue - Anime gives it perfect Ki control, which a few times becomes relavent, but for the most part becomes a non factor. God + Super Saiyan is also enough to warrent its’ existance. Manga does it a lot better, with Perfected SSB being one of the coolest parts of Super and really sells the concept. But it overstays its’ welcome and gets boring in both by not keeping up with these concepts UI - the transformation itself doesn’t make any sense, but it honestly doesn’t matter because the focus is on the technique itself. The imperfected UI is actually a lot cooler because the lack of perfect movement makes the perfect movement noticable. When every attack is supposed to be natural in Mastered UI, it stops feeling that way (just compare MUI Goku vs Jiren and Goku vs Frieza and point out what the difference is). Ultra Ego - By far best transformation in Super, finally connects Vegeta to Beerus (the whole premise of Super), great gimmic, ties into his character arc perfectly Beast Gohan - worst transformation in Super. No explaination on it, no interesting gimmic with it (the manga already turned the anger of it into a joke), it’s just bland
@nerdcorner2680
4 ай бұрын
Also didn’t mention all the super gimmicy transformations like Rosé, Blue Evolution, and Trunks’ but honestly all of them are such blatant gimmics that impact nothing that they are not worth going any deeper with
@jimwatson1013
3 ай бұрын
I agree with you on all of this. SSG is used up even within its own first fight by running out, and Goku just has the strength now. It is just another Divine Water or one of many random power ups Goku was given in Dragon Ball before transformations. It became so thing later to use a little but for its speed, but it realy pointless now. Blue just happens and continues to happen it is just SSJ but blue to keep up with the higher power levels of new foes. Evolution oh man do they like to just poison their own supply with this one. Goku has Ultra Instinct and we are being told all these details about it as Goku perfects it vs Jiren. Then Vegeta break through his limits to Evolution and....its SSB UI....now its not actualy that but at the time it just felt like SSB was doing the same as UI was doing and then.....just never even hinted or used ever again not even in the Manga. Like why even bother with the new form if it means nothing. Ultra Ego feels new and interesting. Ui felt new and interesting until it wasn't and now it has gotten dumb. Beast.....ugh I switched the movie off at that point and stopped watching. It has gone far too far. Getting 2 new Piccolo forms in 20 minutes and boom Gohan pulls out random power up and it pretends to redo SSJ2 first transformation.....my good will is pretty done at this point. Not to mention we are just doing colours now "Blue, Golden. Orange. Rose" UI and Ultra Ego is about the best so far before we just go into more moods. "Ultra Hungry" "Ultra sleepy"
@BCCSquidward
6 ай бұрын
My issues with each form: SSJG: Should've gotten more time to shine. SSJB: Should've been introduced later and given more unique abilities. UI: I actually have no issues with this form, I actually really like how it's foreshadowed. 🔥 I even really like the Saiyan Instinct of TUI.
@CloneGamerz289
6 ай бұрын
What about SSJB Kaioken and SSJB Evolution
@Goku_animations567
6 ай бұрын
Goku should have been in god form in goku black ark then ssjb should have been introduced in the rage boost moment
@CloneGamerz289
6 ай бұрын
@@Goku_animations567 what about SSJB Kaioken?
@Blingman121v3
6 ай бұрын
SSJG should've been Saiyan God. SSB should've been SSJG
@BCCSquidward
6 ай бұрын
@@CloneGamerz289 SSJBK is fine. It's just SSJB with Kaio-Ken on top. I like the aura. I actually like SSJBE, it's an interesting form that's unique to Vegeta.
@decepticonsforever3166
6 ай бұрын
Imo we should've had ssg in both movies but then have blue in the universe 6 and Goku black arcs
@ItsBigTune
6 ай бұрын
Agreed
@JotonioIII
6 ай бұрын
I agree, and Freeza's golden form should be another color. Red versus yellow doesn't look as good as blue versus yellow.
@joshwash2
6 ай бұрын
@@JotonioIIIhonestly, they should’ve swapped Golden for Black in the RoF and ToP arcs, and THEN when Black Frieza would show up, it would instead be Golden Frieza
@JotonioIII
6 ай бұрын
@@joshwash2 Golden Freeza looks much better than Black Freeza.
@marcusfrm6263
6 ай бұрын
@@JotonioIIIgolden frieza is just fine being gold
@retrodull8796
6 ай бұрын
I think super saiyan blue, super saiyan god, and rose are unnecessary. Its just too many colors man. It feels like they exploited the idea of changing hair colors. Too many colors. I wish they kept it simple. Like ssj1,2 and 3 and Ultra instinct as the final form
@tobin2.0
6 ай бұрын
Just cut out Super Saiyan Blue and Make Rose a variation on Super Saiyan God, to sell toys maybe have Goku Black cycle through Super Saiyan 1-3
@kengxi
5 ай бұрын
@@tobin2.0Nah just nuke the god bullshit and go straight to ultra instinct. Ego and Instinct fit Goku and Vegetas characters. The god xformations are garbage.
@ryanjagpal123
5 ай бұрын
@@kengxiWhy are they garbage? How can you go from regular ssj 3 with drawbacks to a divine technique the gods and angels use?
@Doughboy14145
3 ай бұрын
I agree 1,000%
@defaultname7685
3 ай бұрын
@@ryanjagpal123because if you’re rewriting the series you’re rewriting the series and how the power scaling works
@falmatrix2r
6 ай бұрын
Remember, the average screen can show up to 16 million colors, we have room for a few more transformations
@SCHMALLZZZ
6 ай бұрын
The human eye can only make out like 300
@falmatrix2r
6 ай бұрын
@@SCHMALLZZZ the fuck? “The visible spectrum for humans falls between ultraviolet light and infrared light. Scientists estimate that humans can distinguish up to 10 million colors”
@Haveanicepeach
5 ай бұрын
@@SCHMALLZZZ that's enough for like 2 arc's
@sweetsweetkhajoor
4 ай бұрын
there gonna be a super saiyan for each color in the rainbow frfr
@binchilling5768
4 ай бұрын
@@sweetsweetkhajoorthen goku will have an interview with the ugandian journalist
@cincymutt
5 ай бұрын
One of the biggest issues is that they would soon be facing guys that were instantly able to compete with/outclass these impossibly strong forms.
@nerdcorner2680
4 ай бұрын
The annoying thing here is Super wrote the solution, and then ignored it. It introduced Beerus, Whis, and the other universes and never really capitalized on it. Only 2 story arcs had other universes as threats, Goku surpassed Beerus like 3 times and the goal post keeps moving, most universes have now been made irrelevent, Frieza is the next villian again, and Beerus and Whis seem to be getting close to being surpassed (with Goku beating Moro who has Merus’ abilities and strength). So every concept it added to prevent this issue it messed up or ignored
@cincymutt
4 ай бұрын
@nerdcorner2680 I think you're totally right. I also feel they expanded the world, only to quickly then shrink it all. They limited Universe 7 with the "28 planets with life" comment (which is absurd); and they brought out the supposed toughest fighters of most of the universes, with only one having fighters actually strong enough - too strong, honestly - to challenge 7's best. And with them even approaching/surpassing the destroyers, I half expect them to introduce someone above Zeno who oversees multiple groups of universes lol. Goku getting as strong as a destroyer should be an eternal goal that he never achieves; or if he does, it should be the end of the series. In the meantime, they should try and rediscover that you can have the heroes fight and overcome a foe even if they aren't at the same power; that actually makes it more exciting (Zamasu stuff almost gets it right).
@will_9910
3 ай бұрын
@@nerdcorner2680 A month late, but that isn't true about Beerus. The FANS kept power scaling Goku to be beyond Beerus because of that hypothetical scale Akira said during the Battle of gods interview way back. There's never been any source canon of Goku surpassing Beerus. Is it a goal post? Maybe. You could say that. Though I wouldn't. But at the end of the day, Beerus' power has never been fully shown during now or after the BoG fight. It always falls under speculation.
@nerdcorner2680
3 ай бұрын
@@will_9910 ToP it is stated many times that Jiren is stronger than Gods, when Goku surprasses him Beerus admits Goku surpassed him and then all the Gods stand in respect for the man that surpassed them. That is beyond 100% confirmed
@antoniohoward5920
3 ай бұрын
@@nerdcorner2680He never admitted that lol . He was trying to Get Ultra instinct himself, you crazy if you think goku is stronger than beerus
@gamingguru2k6
4 ай бұрын
People can hate on GT all they want, but SS4 was at least based on established lore. SSGod is an ass pull.
@rpt2369
6 ай бұрын
In the original manga almost every 2 years there was a new transformation for the Saiyan's. Super Saiyan came out in 1991, Super Saiyan 2 came in 1993, Super Saiyan 3 appeared in 1994(1 year transformation). So this is just consistency with the series especially going from Super Saiyan god to Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan(Super Saiyan Blue). There are a lot of forms but that's how these big companies want to capitalize on merchandise sales toys, clothes, video games, etc. etc.
@po72644
6 ай бұрын
100% nailed it In Dragonball Kai they removed the filler, so In the same episode span of Super, they introduced Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3 & Fusion It's all to sell toys and merchandise at the end of the day. Although Toriyama did say he came up with Super Saiyan so he and his editor could save time by not colouring Goku's hair black R.I.P Akira Toriyama
@WolfXGamerful
6 ай бұрын
@@po72644 It's funny that the "not coloring in hair" fact gets brought up, since he still had to ink in Goku's shirt, which was there for most of the fight.
@sky-oq5mr
6 ай бұрын
Bro the problem is ssg and ssb happened literally 1 short arc apart. That's like 8 eps apart and we barely seen ssg.
@Smd88
6 ай бұрын
Yea but the difference is that all of the android and cell arc happened before super saiyan 2
@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman
6 ай бұрын
@@sky-oq5mrthe the toys mah toytyys mah moni
@LookingTheBest
3 ай бұрын
Real real problem is SS4 will always be the coolest form
@KYLE1654-v7m
Ай бұрын
The only form that doesn't scream RECOLORS. 🤣
@tremel7336
6 ай бұрын
I like how Super is trying to get everyone to go their own unique way of getting stronger, and would keep that concept. Goku should have gone down the path of an Angel by training with Whis to master SSJ3 first, then he is trained in the arts of Divine Ki to obtain SSJG, and after that focus on Ultra Instinct. It should be a gradual evolution where he stays with these forms for a while to master them as a way of mastering himself. Vegeta should follow a similar progression, but going down the path of a God of Destruction. Instead of getting SSJG like Goku, he should get SSJB, a mutation of Divine Ki that will set him on the tracks of unlocking his God of Destruction Mode. Instead of becoming a complete God like Goku, Vegeta wants to retain as much of his lineage as possible, going against the harmonious nature of an Angel. He can still keep the grades of SSJB, but once he has figured out how to go beyond that form, it evolves into Ultra Ego, a huge step into uncovering his God of Destruction Mode. After some training from Beerus, he eventually reaches the true potential of his path to power. Piccolo should have been had at least one new form in Z, but since we're keeping to Super, I would have Piccolo also training with not only Whis, but Beerus as well, achieving two forms that differ from each other. His ultimate form a result of his training with Whis and his Orange form a result of his training with Beerus in their versions of Divine Ki. Bulma can just upgrade the Androids with Divine Ki and/or Magic to give them an easy boost while upgrading their cybernetic parts with more powerful and durable materials. I hate Beast Gohan and would prefer it if they continued for him to go down the path of a human with his Unlocked Potential form. So, instead of getting a new form, he just further develops what he has and possibly even learns magic to acquire a true Mystic form. I'm not completely sold on the idea myself, but it could be interesting. That is to say, all of these should be built up over plenty of chapters/episodes to give a larger satisfaction in watching these characters achieve new levels of power. Perhaps after Goku goes SSJG against Beerus and loses, everyone puts it back into gear in fear and excitement of there being even more powerful beings out in the cosmos beyond their comprehension. Goku is trying to figure out ways to further SSJG on his own, but Vegeta takes the humble approach to be mentored by Whis and Beerus, being brushed off by the latter until Vegeta stands against Whis's methods of training in order to maintain what little pride he has left in his heritage. This catches the attention of Beerus who takes an interest in Vegeta's resolve to find his own way to power, begrudgingly taking the Prince of All Saiyan's under his wing. With everyone on Earth still trying to find a way to increase their power, Frieza arrives, having been brought back to life by the Dragon Ball's from a subordinate or maybe even Cooler (who has been keeping to his own side of the universe until the death of his family, keeping a critical eye on the Z-Fighters, gathering information while preparing his plan to take them all out). Aware that Goku has obtained a new power that puts him in the realm of the Gods, Frieza had been training his ass off since his revival, equaling the power of the Z-Fighters (minus Goku in his SSJG form). Having prepared for his eventual defeat at the hands of the Saiyan Born on Earth, Frieza leads them all into a false security of defeat, allowing Frieza's secret weapon (or just Cooler) to take Goku out. With the Dragon Team on the verge of defeat, Vegeta arrives in his SSJB form to defeat Frieza and his forces. Following this event, Goku and Piccolo, maybe some others, opt to learn Divine Ki as well. Goku wants to learn from Whis, believing the Angel would be the best teacher to help him master SSJG, while Piccolo decides to learn from both, applying their versions of Divine Ki to himself. Whis forces Goku to master SSJ3 first, while teaching Piccolo on how to obtain and control Divine Ki. I'm not entirely sure which arc I'd want them to master their current forms and then achieve new ones, but it should all be foreshadowed and built up for the audiences enjoyability.
@supreme-XB
6 ай бұрын
yap
@JRD876
6 ай бұрын
Well said.!
@SDseb
6 ай бұрын
@@supreme-XB People are right, us Dragon Ball fans cannot read I guess.
@tremel7336
6 ай бұрын
@@r-o-k I actually agree with this, but it would only be possible with a reboot of DBZ, which I'd be fine with.
@alphonsejohnson5601
6 ай бұрын
I thought Beast Gohan was a great Idea, But poor in execution. My idea would be that the beast transformation would be something like a Super Saiyan 4 + Ultimate form type transformation, Which would give Gohan great power, But the draw back would be that the longer he stayed in the form, the more he loses control of himself and become an out of control beast. The next arc would be for Gohan to train and learn to control and stay in the form for longer periods without losing control.
@pepperidgefarmsremembers92
6 ай бұрын
It became too "easy" to reach a new level. No wonder I tapped out at the end of DBZ
@akagiramasenju
25 күн бұрын
Just seeing goten and trunks make the strongest fusion its already make no sense
@isaacya1438
3 ай бұрын
Super saiyan 4>super saiyan blue
@Web720
3 ай бұрын
This is why GT is great in this regard. They took a different route, especially visually AND it was used throughout the series, it became the SSJ of the show. If you remove the Golden Great Ape form (which technically was in DBZ and was barely used in GT), SSJ4 was the only one besides Full Power SSJ4, for the saiyans. It's like they knew the form was peak and GOATED, so they had no reason to bring out an SSJ5.
@justinharvie8126
Ай бұрын
That National Park theme from Pokemon was a staggering hit of nostalgia.
@Arachnid-scribe
6 ай бұрын
R.I.P TORIYAMA-SENSEI
@The-Almighty775
6 ай бұрын
Yes😢
@Eddierath
Ай бұрын
When you remove the PROCESS to any thing. You disconnect the RELATIONSHIP. We no longer have a relationship with there's forms... Only ss to ssj2. Really took the time to flesh out the emotion behind those forms...
@elijahross9961
6 ай бұрын
Ngl despite all the issues with the show, I still like Dragon Ball Super. Especially Lord Berry’s, in my humble opinion I think he was one of the best characters in the entire series, he’s definitely of favorite character out of all of them. And as for Goku’s SSJG and SSJB forms.. I feel like the release time between the both of them should have been further apart like by at least 1 one year.
@Sole_x_animations
6 ай бұрын
"Lord berry" 🤣
@michaeldoerrler2363
6 ай бұрын
darn autocorrect@@Sole_x_animations
@JDog_Unchained
Ай бұрын
So you like the forms that don't actually change anything but the forms that actually make sense you dont like? But lets be honest the new forms are simply to sell new toys. Nobody buys the same characters that haven't changed in decades, but people do buy new transformations
@manfreddawg
3 ай бұрын
And not a single form comes close to ssj4 😂😂😂
@checco925
3 ай бұрын
Ssj4 was just so much better.. it was in line with the previous transformations, it didn't make the other transformations feel completely useless, it was rooted in Sayan Blood instead of being just a kind of higher power given from heaven and it wasn't just a skin color change made for marketing.
@ghost245353
6 ай бұрын
They kind of had something with super saiyan 3. The focus of the arc could have been how to prolong the transformation. In the cell saga, the problem of achieving super saiyan 2 was overcome when Goku taught Gohan how to *naturally* sustain super saiyan form. The buu saga could have somehow spent more time with the development of super saiyan 3. The weakness was never overcome.
@michaeldoerrler2363
6 ай бұрын
That's actually a great idea! If SSJ3 was actually given development, we wouldn't have needed all the other random power ups like the 2 fusion methods and ultimate gohan. Granted, those are still cool, but they wouldn't have been necessary if SSJ3 was handled better as a climatic form.
@TheFirehands150
Ай бұрын
The original Super Saiyan up to Super Saiyan 2 was extremely well paced. There was much experimentation with form which fit the characters and how they handled it up to Cell.
@Montan.
6 ай бұрын
BROOOO THAT OUTRO SONG BROUGHT BACK MEMORIESSS. SONICCCCC. THE NOSTALGIAAAAA
@Arcadious10
3 ай бұрын
What song is this?
@Montan.
3 ай бұрын
@@Arcadious10 sonic unleashed apotos (day)
@simdi8631
3 ай бұрын
THANK YOU!!! I’ve always had this problem with super and could never really find anyone that agreed so this video was very refreshing
@raynel8495
4 ай бұрын
I think they need to go back to making Dragon Ball about Technique and Martial Arts instead of just transformations.
@DigitalLogos
3 ай бұрын
I completely agree. There was once a time where power was not the deciding factor, but technique and strategy. Someone like Krillin could've feasibly killed Frieza if his attack hit, or going back even further to the Tournaments of the original DB. Even GT attempted this by making SS4 the ceiling of Saiyan power, forcing Goku and Vegeta to strategize against Omega. Super instead just whips a new magical power increase and slaps a literal coat of paint on it for the sake of plot progression.
@stephenramos2824
2 ай бұрын
Exactly original DB and Z are both character driven. DBZ had solid tension...Sayans arriving on earth, cat and mouse game on namik, the slow introduction of cell which was almost like a horror film. Super lacks all of that.
@DOC_951
3 ай бұрын
Super is what ruined super saiyan. All the sudden you can be a super saiyan just by feeling your back tingle for 15 seconds. Then, blue is just literally useless. It’s basically just the standard form… which never does anything. They made the red “god” form pointless. Literally everything boiled down to needed to fuse or use ultra instinct. So stupid. They ruined power scaling and had no idea how to make it work.
@jonathonspears7736
6 ай бұрын
In my opinion. SSG should have been the standard transformation going into DBS. With SSGSS being a powerup that came during a critical moment in the story. Then we could have also gotten SSGSSxKK and SSBE, each with their own wins to show off their power. I would have saved UI and UE entirely into the Moro arc which would have increased the time where each transformation was relevant.
@Goldenleyend
Ай бұрын
One of the reasons why I think Dragon Ball should've ended after Frieza is because of super saiyan. Keep in mind up to that point, Goku in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z was a person, you can use any number of adjectives, silly, funny, martial arts genius, but after that he became the guy with the transformations. Now you cant think of Goku, without thinking about all his different hairstyles!
@magicbenyahweh
6 ай бұрын
3:50-3:52 It’s always made sense in my head that the more powerful a saiyan is when they create a child, the more powerful and capable they’ll be at birth. By the time Gohan was born Goku was already the strongest on Earth (plus Gohan grew up in Battle), while by the time Goten and Trunks were born both Goku and Vegeta had already basically mastered Super Saiyan 1. It just makes sense that genetically speaking they’d already be born more powerful than natural
@matthewbreytenbach4483
Ай бұрын
Goten sure, but Trunks was concieved _before_ Vegeta became a Super Saiyan
@keiichitw
Ай бұрын
But thats not how genetics works… goku and vegeta were always capable of becoming this strong, so their genetics were always like this. That they can become all this kind of transformations is only possible, because their genetics are like this from the beginning. You dont change your genetics just because youre training hard, this would be the case if youre thinking of evolution like jean baptiste lamarck. But what we know today, is the evolution theory of darwin. Ofcourse thats an anime, so its not real, but i just wanted to point that out haha
@felipeaguena5289
2 ай бұрын
Black hair to Yellow: God Tier 🔥 Yellow to long Gold: Badass Golden to Red: Uh...okay I guess Red to Blue: Stop Blue to Grey: 🤦♂️
@joshawnthabeast
6 ай бұрын
Idc what nobody say, ssj 4, ssj god and ultra instinct is my favorite transformation to come out of db.
@PabloEnver
Ай бұрын
Its just ridiculous, the lack of originality. You can say what you want about Dragon Ball GT, but at least they invented a truly original new form, directly related to saiyan's ozaru form. Now its just changing wigs
@clickbaitpolice9792
6 ай бұрын
Ty Toriyama
@MrSirFluffy
2 ай бұрын
I think they should have stuck with red for awhile, no blue needed. Gohan's white version would be acceptable if their was an arc behind it and not just him achieving it in a day. The whole human mastery thing he was doing was cool, it would make the form a good payoff in a longer arc. Piccolo Dragon form is dope, I'm fine with it in a vacuum. He's been due for a power up especially considering he is a more active z fighter. Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego should have stayed techniques and not full forms. Super Saiyan blue should have been introduced later in the Broly movie only, as a result of the fusion. This is the reason Geten and Trunks can do SS3, so it would make sense Gogeta unlocks blue in fusion only until they are strong enough individually.
@koichidignitythief7429
2 ай бұрын
True but in Ultra Instinct and Ego's defense, those techniques/transformations have a specific function. So far Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo is just another power boost, and I wish they can further explore what these forms can do that the others can't. Even Rose had a specialization in mastery over Ki constructs.
@dazedd-fi4yx
6 ай бұрын
Its called Super Sayjan Blue. Super Sayjan God Super Sayjan is literally a gag term. A joke. Going super sayjan while being a God is the path on how to get super sayjan blue, but that makes it not its name. I repeat, in the manga the term "super sayjan god super sayjan" is a term used as a joke. In the same scene they settled on calling it "Super Sayjan Blue", its true name. Throughout the anime its also only called "Blue" or "Super Sayjan Blue"
@viciousv5395
6 ай бұрын
What? SSGSS is just what it is. SSj blue is just shorter
@dazedd-fi4yx
6 ай бұрын
@@viciousv5395 No, ppl act like the forms actual name is super sayjan god super sayjan, while the primary main canon name for the form is super sayjan blue
@CoreTradingMastery
6 ай бұрын
@@dazedd-fi4yxliterally everyone and thier mother calls it super saiyan blue or SSGSS. It doesn't make a difference.
@dazedd-fi4yx
6 ай бұрын
@@CoreTradingMastery again, ssgss is a joke term
@CoreTradingMastery
6 ай бұрын
@@dazedd-fi4yx It doesn't matter wether you think its a joke term or not. Is someone going to die if they say it? Your being a hardass over smth completely irrelevant.
@joeydebra763
4 ай бұрын
I enjoyed SSJ1, SSJ2 and UI the most. Those forms were hard to get and yes Goku should not have had to lose that form when fighting Jiren to give 16 and Frieza some time in the light.
@jordansauced3825
4 ай бұрын
I hate when people count every little change in super saiyan as a form. Like its rlly 1,2,3,red blue, beast, ui, ego. Everyhting else is just some variation of a form. If i improve or perfect my handwriting I dont have two handwritings I just improved one.
@ShotGunKai
3 ай бұрын
If you’re referring to the grade forms it’s still calling it super saiyan just a different level of it
@consistenc51
3 ай бұрын
I don’t know if this is widely known. But DBZ was supposed to end after the Frieza saga. When Goku became a super saiyan, it was crazy. Super saiyan before that point was a myth. When it actually happened for the first time in the manga people were going bonkers! After Goku killed Frieza he didn’t make it out alive after the planet blew up. So, alllll these transformations beginning from the Cell saga was really due to pressure from fans, media, marketing and distribution companies. I know because I lived in Japan when this happened. IMO, I can forgive the Cell saga but, I don’t bother with dragon ball after that, it’s gotten beyond ridiculous.
@Glaciola_ice
6 ай бұрын
I'm someone who eats all the new transformations in any shows but for me they need to be actual transformation that give them something and not just blatant recolors. I'm sick and tired of these disco rainbow hair colors, they have run out of colors to give now so what next? Super saiyan rgb lights? One thing i love about SSJ4 is that it has first of an unique look, the hair is longer and stays black, there is a tail and half of his body is covered in fur. Second the meaning behind it, i love how they went back to the saiyans history with the great ape and used that as a base as a sort of controlled form and how it was reached by having pan remind an out of control giant ape what he is actually fighting for and the way goku reached towards earth like he was homesick. Just beautifully done. Now super transformation are all the same, got his ass beaten and out of wazoo dyed his hair, well ss god as a bit unique as in he needed 4 saiyans but ehh that was reather anti climatic compared to every transformation before
@ghoulchan7525
6 ай бұрын
they still got Orange.
@inferstrike3544
6 ай бұрын
@@ghoulchan7525 Orange Pickle
@ghoulchan7525
6 ай бұрын
@@inferstrike3544 ah crap. Yeah. Though it's not been used as a color for a Saiyan transformation so it's still unused.
@inferstrike3544
6 ай бұрын
@@ghoulchan7525 Yep, I hope we get Super saiyan Orange Pickle soon.
@Bruh_ssb
5 ай бұрын
So don't like god and blue but like ssj2 wich changes almost nothing and 3 wich makes eyebrows disappear out of nothing and just grow hair? Also, there's no toriyama style in ssj4, an over complicated form in it's design. God, blue and ui are more similar to the og super saiyans and to toriyama's simplistic style
@ZennonTheOne
6 ай бұрын
Super Saiyan God: Goku turns into a conservative Super Saiyan Blue: Goku turns into a liberal Ultra Instinct: He becomes an independent voter 💀
@michaeldoerrler2363
6 ай бұрын
Hahaha lol
@MurshidArtan
6 ай бұрын
I think that now it will start to slow down for characters like goku, vegeta, Gohan, piccolo and even Broly. They all might even not get another form and the story might shift from them to the next generation. But that is my head canon
@HustlerHorstRuediger
6 ай бұрын
We will get Ultimate Warrior Kuririn and 4 eyed Tenshinhan in 2025
@artistaroundtheblock2047
6 ай бұрын
@@HustlerHorstRuedigerThats so funny!!!! 😂
@theonetruefusion8533
6 ай бұрын
Broly's probably going to get another form you know? are you caught up on super? he's training with goku and vegeta, his great ape infused super saiyan (full power super saiyan or something) is not going to be his main form
@randomDLo
6 ай бұрын
@@theonetruefusion8533bro just an idea cause when you say great ape induced super saiyan…..I mean we could easily get super saiyan 4 if they delved into that just saiyan 😂
@theonetruefusion8533
6 ай бұрын
@@randomDLo super saiyan 4? besides, considering broly can use his great ape power in base probably because he has no power, he could mix it in with his super saiyan, he just accidentally did it mid fight
@wander7812
6 ай бұрын
Odd facts abt These forms; - SSJ Rose (Anime-Only) is Black's SSJ1, meaning DB Heroes's Super Saiyan Rose 3 is technically canon? - SSJ Blue Shinka (Vegeta dark Blue form in the Tournament), is supposed to be the SSJ Grade 2-3, but for Blue. Some people thought it was SSJ2 Blue, so i'm clearing that out. As a throwback he even did the Super Vegeta pose and did a Final Flash during this form like the Cell Saga.
@Traceghostcoasttocoast
6 ай бұрын
Bro who counts the perfected forms they don’t change from the form it’s perfecting so it not to be counted only perfected form that’s actually a form is cell not one else technically it’s only really like 10 or 9 now forms not 14 my boy
@Dbaby719
Ай бұрын
I don’t think the forms are ridiculous. When super sayian god was unleashed it broke through a barrier that goku could never achieve without it. He is a god now. Every time he has fought a villain. They have been stronger than him. It would make sense that goku and vegeta would train as much as they can so they don’t get beat. But no matter what. The villain will be stronger. If they are a god. Then what could the next villain be. Goku black was a Kai. She maybe when he went into super sayian blue. His Kai aura or ki or whatever it is changed the form. If you watched super then you already know about Frieza. You remember when I said if goku was a god and usually his villains are stronger than him, then what could they be. I’m talking about beerus. When goku fought beerus. Deep down he knew he needed to find some way to take him down. Which probably further pushed him to unlock some better form. Now when the tournament came around. Goku couldn’t play games. If I remember his universe was at risk of being destroyed. When jiren came around. Goku probably thought that if he didn’t push himself to the limit then he and everyone he loved would be gone. Now with his godhood he could achieve a form beyond what he knew he could do. I forgot about the other tournament. When he saw all of those guys combat his super saiyan blue. That probably pushed him to get stronger since if there was people of that power then there could be other that are evil and try to kill him and his friends and family. Deep down goku and vegeta knew if they didn’t push past there limits then someone else would and kill everyone. To sum it all up. The forms were necessary to fight the villains.
@An1m0sity
6 ай бұрын
I personally think they should have explored the concept of god ki and SSG a lot more, the same way they did with super saiyan. For example, there was a reason why super saiyan always felt grounded and down to earth before the buu saga. We understood how it worked. You needed a surge of emotion to unlock it, and most of the time, that surge came in the form of rage. After that, a saiyan would learn how to control their rage to activate the form at will, and control it much better. You can see how much control helps when you look at how Goku beat Trunks with a single finger. Then you get all the grades and how each grade has both upsides and downsides, until you get to grade 4 which is essentially ultimate control over super saiyan. They could have done something like this with super saiyan god. A route of calmness and tranquility, that not only allowed them to tap into god ki at will, but would eventually lead them down the route of ultra instinct.
@TheJadeFist
6 ай бұрын
Maybe give us a God of a Creation sort of awakening. or have some of the non-saiyans seek out a path to god hood now that they know it's possible so that other characters are useful. Goku and Vegeta both obtained god ki as part of their being, after simply absorbing the divine energy. And characters can give energy gifts to each other all the time. Is it unreasonable for Goku to just have Krillen drain all his energy to zero and have Goku gift him god ki, even if just to experiment if it would work. or to try to copy the ritual for the others, it wasn't really even all that hard for Goku to transform the first time, get five people to stand in a circle and think good thoughts, why not repeat that for Gohan or any one else? For Super being so focused on the gods, and mortals reaching their level, why only Goku and Vegeta>? Future Trunks got robbed of his Super Human God form of just it being super saiyan but with a spirit-bomb sword. I would have liked to see some potential for non saiyans (even if he's half) to get something to achieve or reach for.
@ripper_madness
4 ай бұрын
Your last paragraph is actually exactly what super did. SSB was an essential stepping stone to UI considering the fact that the form is all about control
@TheTupMan
6 ай бұрын
If you’re not including kaioken then don’t include any version of UI either. They’re both not saiyan exclusive. And as far as we know, neither is ultra ego. And according to manga chapter 103, Gohan Beast is a Gohan exclusive form, not a saiyan form. And I’m not exactly sure why you’re including Broly’s transformations in either count, except for the simple fact that it is a saiyan form, but it seemed like the point was the protagonists getting new forms was the issue because you said that in Z it was flipped to where the villains got an insane amount of forms and that the Z fighters had to figure out how to overcome it. And this extends to Goku Black as well. He isn’t even a reformed good guy like Broly is, he’s just straight up a villain.
@Beauto093
5 ай бұрын
Unpopular opinion: I think the transformations make sense, because with the introduction of the gods, Super Sayain 2 and 3, for example, are simply no longer sufficient for the new threats. Personally, I'm hype about it, and I'm happy with it. Of course nothing's perfect, for example the power scales are sometimes strange, but overall it's cool, and I really like the ultra instinct.
@TheJadeFist
6 ай бұрын
Super Saiyan 3 I believe to be the only exception to the form problem, because Goku says the form is stupid and doesn't like using it because how draining it is, when he has other options. Goten and Trunks using it while fused makes sense, because the Fusion is a short term thing to begin with and they want to maximize their power output to the maximum during it.
@hamadouz1614
2 ай бұрын
This should be mentioned a lot more
@archaicrapture
2 ай бұрын
The form is powerful but he never learned how to use it.
@famalam943
6 ай бұрын
I honesty don’t like transformations. He fewer the better. I’d have been much more happier if it was just regular ssj 1&2 and the characters got stronger within their forms & the story focused around meaningful reasons for fights rather than fights being there to facilitate a transformation. It’s become a crutch. But it’s too late now. It is what it is.
@tianoc-g4811
4 ай бұрын
And this is Why Super Saiyan 4 is the Best Dragon Ball Transformation right after The first Super Saiyan.
@LeeoJohnsonTV
6 ай бұрын
I'm glad I found your channel. I'm always happy to support a brotha. Toriyama definitely created a great thing for people all over the world to bond on. Your commentary is great, keep the heat coming 🔥🔥🔥
@RestrictedRican
2 ай бұрын
Definitely miss me with the God, Rose, Blue Ultra Instinct none carry the same importance or desperation that SS1 did.
@Grod2013
6 ай бұрын
Well this video was a big nothing sandwich
@youtubestudiosucks978
6 ай бұрын
You gonna eat that?
@ryankroskey9351
6 ай бұрын
I personally think it makes sense. Goku is based on Sun Wukong, the many form=72 transformations, mui=enlightenment.
@floresluis1990
6 ай бұрын
Quick correction. Not anyone can learn the Kaiken. It takes a special individual to learn it
@The-Almighty775
6 ай бұрын
@@r-o-k He's not kidding, not everyone can learn kaioken
@JotonioIII
6 ай бұрын
In one year, Yamucha, Kurilin, and Tenshinhan got to Raditz's level, something Gokū couldn't do in eight years. Yamucha spent 130 days with Kai'ō-sama. Tenshinhan and Chaozu spent 260. What's Toriyama's excuse for not giving them the technique?
@michaeldoerrler2363
6 ай бұрын
Goku wasn't even as strong as Raditz by the time he learned kaioken. The humans and Piccolo were already beyond Raditz by the time they died in the saiyan saga, so they should easily have been able to handle at least kaioken x2. Also, aren't the strongest humans in the world special individuals for being able to keep up with elite saiyan warriors, who were some of the strongest beings in the universe (at this point in the story before other characters were introduced)?
@TravissMcCoy
6 ай бұрын
To me its dragonball everything doesnt have to be explained to us its not naruto , also when you start talking numbers you stop enjoying what your watching and turn into the very thing toriyama made fun of was the scouter . As for gohan form was the early concept of beast gohan but then the series continued so they simply went with ssj2 . Ive accepted super for what it was it didnt bother me they had all those forms its what fans expect lol
@daaerus5461
26 күн бұрын
Nothing they do now will ever make me feel like I did when Goku broke into Super Saiyan on Namek. I was screaming. Stuff got flung around my room. I was in genuine awe. Toonami went hard in my middle school childhood.
@YophiGames
6 ай бұрын
I didn't really like Super BECAUSE of the constant new forms. Although, if we are honest, Akira Toriyama didn't make up the whole power scaling thing that was going on for decades. That was fans. So when OFFICIAL material comes out that messes with the fantasy power scaling thing that fans united across the world (And many NOT united, shall I bring up Super Buu vs. Kid Buu 😂)...people get upset. But Dragon Ball wasn't about great storytelling to begin with. It is just so popular because it was the first to bring anime to the West really. So Toriyama being in his 60s, seeing ALL the things that anime has done since DBZ, I'm not surprised he says, "Let's do a god form" then he goes, "Let's do a SSJ form, but make it blue because it's so easy to color now unlike when I was coming up." Then he gets excited and is like, "Let's do that Power of Nothingness thing that Ryu does in Street Fighter and make it SUPER Buddhism to the point to where he just avoids attacks without thinking!" Then to match Goku, he goes, "Hey, let's make Vegeta get stronger the angrier he gets." Like SSJ? No, this is Super...EGO since he has an ego. I thought Vegeta dropped his ego after Buu. Huh? That was 25 years ago, nobody is going to remember that lol. This is NO disrespect to Toriyama, especially with the news of his passing...but Super was a clear indication that he was way passed his prime, and couldn't keep up with the great storytelling of other animes. He paved the way, but that doesn't mean he was the best or would be the best. Other shows, even American shows, really stepped up in the time he'd ended Z.
@miosz8129
4 ай бұрын
I like the idea that i've once heard, Goku should get ssj blue in the Black saga when Black told him about what he did
@crestofhonor2349
6 ай бұрын
I'm not sure why the humans didn't learn kaio ken. There could have been a lore reason why humans are much better suited to using kaio ken than saiyans allowing them to get higher multipliers. Still SSJG is my favorite form in the series. I didn't like it being replaced so quickly. In fact I think that SSJB should have been an alternative form. Two sides of the same coin. SSJG being the more defensive and tanky form while SSJB has lower defensive abilities but is more offensive oriented. Would have been cool to have seen a transformation that has two sides that they must balance.
@andrewgarfield9898
6 ай бұрын
Because the humans were forgot about long ago. They are basically furniture at this point. It's just the Goku and Vegeta show
@Santzu_
6 ай бұрын
Goku is a very special case
@obito4168
6 ай бұрын
the kiyoken thing is really simple and explained in anime first humun dont know how to use ki secont who is teaching them kayoken 3 and last theyir body cant handle it like thats why goku had to train for it even then he could not use it for long time. i guess dbz fans really dont watch dbz
@Santzu_
6 ай бұрын
@@obito4168 There's a reason why Goku is the only person in history to have it, even king kai himself hasn't mastered it
@crestofhonor2349
6 ай бұрын
@@obito4168 I think you need to work on your english. Also there is no reason why the humans didn't learn kaio ken other than King Kai not teaching them when they were on his planet. Yes it does put strain on the body but that would only limit the multiplier they can use
@thesuit3323
6 ай бұрын
1:02 “5 forms”
@kingjohn8980
6 ай бұрын
I feel like if SSJ4 is reintroduced into Super, it should be exclusive to Broly and be his final form. It just makes sense as Broly has the most “Saiyan” transformations amongst the main cast.
@TheActionTourist
4 ай бұрын
325 chapters = 325 weeks. 102 chapters = 102 x 4 to match up to the real life time passed = 408 weeks While 14 saiyan transformation, there are some footnotes to keep in mind: - 2 opponents were saiyans themselves that weren't part of the heroes that got part of these new forms. To just look at new saiyan forms instead of heros to villain ratio seems inappropiate when considering the change of opponents being saiyans themselves now which is new and previous comparison being made with hero vs villain new forms ratio in mind to justify new saiyan transformations - If you look at the weeks passed for each manga, you could argue that there has been enough time per each new hero transformation/level up since the new forms spread out over the real life time passed time is pretty much the same in Super as it is in Z, with Super now being ahead in form count due to lasting for 83 weeks longer, a timeframe, if applied on Z would've probably resulted in the same amount of new forms/level-ups as it did now for Super. Though one could argue over what's most impactful and important for a new transformation: real life time passed or amount of chapters passed, i could see both having its importance, though ideally more chapters for binge readings / when not following the story month by month probably. - Different growth paths undertaken by the saiyans. A stray away from Z where saiyans largely tried copying each other That all said, i'm not necessarily disagreeing w the video. I just felt like the way the comparison in forms between Z and Super was laid out seemed a bit misleading and could use more nuance
@randomDLo
6 ай бұрын
So we not gonna talk about SSJ4? The disrespect is insane since that was a solution in it of itself.
@ModernDayRenaissanceMan
3 ай бұрын
The solution is simple: instead of pushing Goku through 10 forms, spread out the character development like we have all been asking The battles SHOULD be so hard that like when Radtiz came - he died & was gone for a year just to get kaioken then Super Saiyan basically. Let Vegeta get some dubs in that time until he falls. Then Gohan steps up. Then Piccolo. Let the Androids win some fights. Hell we HAVE been seeing this more to be honest. Krillin should have learned kaioken & other techniques by now. I want a return to the older Z fighters. Tien can show back up & have a transformation. Let the kids grow individually instead of always merging. You could give ONE new form every 50 chapters per person this way. Broly hasnt even started doing his part. Think about it. In 300 chapters we "could" get only 1 new form per person & still do a crap ton of development. It's all about not being lazy with the writing. Oh yeah & Pan & Uub is still in the wings, plus Buu. There are plenty of opportunities if they would stop focusing on 2-3 people. Also instead of always needing a form there are plenty of ways for the z fighters to teach each other different techniques and tactics. As I mentioned with Krillin and kaioken, why hasn't Vegeta combined his two finishers into one? Galick Gun AND Final Flash could be a single attack if mastered one in each hand. Galick Flash. Things like this are possible & we have seen it used before. Goku has used Krillin attack and Gohan has used Piccolo's attack, but for as long as they have all been together and fighting each other you would think they would all know each other's moves much better than this.
@Ogg_shH35367
3 ай бұрын
God form and ui, mui makes sense God form was literally a final resort to save the earth and ui, mui was to save the universe Red triggered by a ritual and ui triggered through emotions and spirit bomb Only bs forms are Blue, perfected blue, pui
@sergioalejandrobricenostap9016
6 ай бұрын
Too soon man. Also, probably agreed with most of your points, until you mentioned that Orange Piccolo was just way too much. It's one of the most inspired (aside from Frieza's), cool (aside from super saiyan) and long time coming (because my boy had only had great namekian for 30 years) transformations in the series.
@iiormz2251
6 ай бұрын
haters gon' hate
@zenvultra
6 ай бұрын
Coper gonna cope
@randomDLo
6 ай бұрын
Skaters gonna sk8
@ericww32
5 ай бұрын
I think you forget that they were in uncharted territory with the super saiyan form where they had to learn how to use it on their own where as with the newer forms, they have help from whis plus the mixture of knowledge obtained from what they learned about the super saiyan form. An example of this is how SS Blue is a mix of super saiyan and god Kai. Whis had a direct hand in teaching goku ultra instinct
@heger8612
6 ай бұрын
Toriyama just died and you guys are finding problems in the dragon ball super form
@TheDragon-v7d
6 ай бұрын
Ikr , it’s distasteful
@SpectreStatus
6 ай бұрын
Not attacking him personally. These problems have existed for a long time already.
@ItsBigTune
6 ай бұрын
I normally don't respond to these kind of comments, but first of all the video was made before his passing. I have expressed NUMEROUS times on this channel that I love Dragon Ball and have for years. I also have expressed that I love Akira Toriyama as a writer. What I discussed in this video is my personal opinion about forms in a series that he was not as heavily involved in. We all reserve the right to discuss the series how we see fit. Toriyama wrote a legendary story and shared it with the world, and with that comes some positive opinions and some negative opinions. NO ONE is perfect. I truly hope you have a great day.
@justicemagagane5737
6 ай бұрын
@@ItsBigTune Tell em bigtune
@infantzebra5446
6 ай бұрын
Lmao what
@SamD180
2 ай бұрын
There was no better moment as a kid than watching Goku transform to super saiyan for the first time
@damsen978
3 ай бұрын
They're just lazy re-colorations of already established forms. Would have been awesome if they made Saiyan God (Not gonna call it Super Saiyan God) look like GT's SSJ4 and then give it the golden classic super saiyan color scheme when they went Super Saiyan God (Not calling it "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" or the lazy "blue"). As for MUI, i don't know, anything that isn't some lazy re-color. Even Super Saiyan 2 was distinct enough from 1 because it raised even more hairs and had an electric aura. DB Super has the lamest transformations, both aesthetically and story-wise.
@documentcamera8807
4 ай бұрын
Kinda disagree with the point, execution of some of the forms wasn't the best at times but most of the forms are just to give each character something unique which makes their development more interesting.
@AlphazXG_
5 ай бұрын
I never understood why super saiyan 3 wasn’t mastered like ssj2
@marksunboxingzone
Ай бұрын
Once transformation started it became a never-ending cycle. You'd get a new for, but for the next villain to be a threat he has to be able to thrash Goku's strongest form. That in turn, leads Goku to try to obtain another form and so on. Also I just remembered that during Ressurection F, Freeza wasn't given the chance to outclass the regular Super Saiyan God. Goku and Vegeta pretty much just turned Super Saiyan Blue to show off (and sell toys). That would be like Goku turning Super Saiyan 3 in front of Cell just because.
@bloodcrow1962
6 ай бұрын
From my understanding god form and super saiyan blue weren't meant to be unique stand alone transformations. God for is just base ampt with God kI, and blue is super saiyan using god ki, Vegitas ssb aura was meant to be ss2. So the whole point to super was mastering god ki which lead to the ultra forms.
@pyotrbagration2438
2 ай бұрын
"Behold primitive mortals, feast your eyes on divinity, Super Saiyan Rose" - Goku Black.
@adrian_veidt
29 күн бұрын
Just rewatched the 3rd Budokai Tenkaichi and man, the show felt way different. The grit, the brutality, art direction, choreography and stakes... oh boy. The fact Goku was facing a huge conundrum against Piccolo Jr. And the blood and brutality.. That scene of Piccolo shoving his elbow on goku's wound still made me cringe of how painful it looked. I also love Goku's fight with Tien. How goku had to figure out Tien's weaknesses. Then came Raditz, the saiyans and journey towards namek. I just miss this kind of stakes on dragonball.
@Vanchinchelo
2 ай бұрын
It was always like that... Have you seen Dragon Ball from the start? It was always because of marketing. OG DBZ ends with the legend of Goku becoming SSJ and dying in namek After that fans turned crazy and wanted more. Toriyama tried to focus the history in Gohan but the fandom did not want that. So he gave everyone SSJ power and transformations ==> Happy fandom And there was no sense anymore in power lvl ups and the level of the characters
@xoiyoub
2 ай бұрын
Growth in DBZ: 1. Character trains > masters current form > unlocks a new form > repeat Growth in DBS: 1. Character trains > unlocks a new form > repeat
@francoisperrin7397
2 ай бұрын
The Super Saiyan God franchise is ridiculous on all levels. I stopped after a few episodes. I was also disappointed with the English version of DBZ despite the awesome dialogues: they didn't use the Japanese soundtracks. Without the Japanese signature background musics, DBZ is not the same so my all time favourite franchise is Dragon Balls.
@hrthrhs
6 ай бұрын
Great topic. I liked the vid. For my own thoughts, I would take the problem you brought up here a step further. The problem started in early DBZ when characters were mostly judged by simply their power levels - this threw out the window other advancements a player can go through such as learning new techniques. To the end of the Cell saga and somewhat into the Buu saga, this problem was handled well enough I thought - what with new techniques still playing a vital role (instant transmission, time freeze etc). But the simple focus on power levers which DBZ handled well enough, was completely mishandled in Super - which is why SSG (red) and SSJ3 are useless. One could say the same about SSJ1 in the Cell saga, that it is useless, but again individual technique still played a role and as you said the transformations in DBZ were handled over a longer time and so seemed well earnt and fleshed out nicely to the audience. What I think they should have done with Super is stop the idea of transformations = only a power boost, but instead transformation = some power difference but mostly technique differences. So - SSJ3 is great for ki attacks but not for stamina nor longevity. SSG (red) better for hand to hand combat but in straight up ki against SSJ3 is at a disadvantage. SSGB (blue) offers a slight power boost over SSG red but more a match for SSJ3 for ki. UI is super fast but against a well trained SSGB still has to be careful. Even SSJ2 could still be useful as a well trained SSJ2 is just the best allrounder of ki, hand to hand, stamina, stamina regain and so on, but is the weakest. That way all forms feel useful and I think it would be awesome to see a character switch between the transformations in a battle depending on how the battle was going and the strengths of the opponent. Combine this with techniques and would make for some awesome variety in battles I think.
@atreidhd
2 ай бұрын
For me, a major part of the problem with the transformations is that, at the end of the day, most of them are just power boosts. They don't really do anything to differentiate themselves from each other. They each need either some unique feature that only that form has (like Ultra Instinct's reaction time) or some handicap to go along with the boost in strength (like Kaioken putting enormous strain on the body).
@ItsOfficiaI
6 ай бұрын
If you ask me, would have been better of Vegeta regrew his tail and mastered the base Super Saiyan forms, then unlocked 4. Let Goku have the God forms and have Vegeta go down the route of a pure Saiyan.
@TheAzulmagia
Ай бұрын
Battle of Gods set up Super Saiyan God as the new ceiling for Goku to reach. Goku hadn't learned how to fully tap into the power to maintain the transformation and Vegeta hadn't even unlocked it yet. There was room there to build the characters up to the new form after seeing a glimpse of it. And then immediately, in the very next movie, we get Super Saiyan Blue. And then Blue had an unimpressive showing for a good majority of its screentime, so everyone was anxious for the next form.
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