I could be wrong but I believe this is the reason Alloytec's suffer timing chain issues. I've done heaps of these engines and have found the same symptoms on all engines.
I heard the design engineers specified a better chain but gm thought they could save coin by using old mongoose bmx chain
@kylejames5421
4 жыл бұрын
🤔
@N3G4T3
4 жыл бұрын
I love this
@jamesharris2788
4 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha actually made me lol
@michaellfreville3690
2 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I heard huffy bikes sho knows 🤘🏽🤷♂️😁
@Stefan_Eccles
2 жыл бұрын
Target bike chain
@markusdammasch9108
4 жыл бұрын
You hit the nail on the head there bud. I've been running my own shop for many years and have seen countless of these engines go the way of the dodo - always the same issue with excessive sludge build up and I might add that as a low friction motor, they are designed to accommodate more blow by than the average other engine (because low friction means less tension on the piston rings among other things). The extra blow by means the oil gets dirtier quicker and needs to be replaced more often than 15,000 km. I tell my customers that it needs to be done every 10,000 max with only full synthetic oil. And as you said the extra blow by causes extra carbon rich gases that need to be vented and often can't be effectively and therefore causes carbon deposit build-up.
@lukas.pythonsss4324
4 жыл бұрын
hey mate wheres your shop? and is there any way to clean/ get rid of the carbon deposit build up?
@diegolerma1516
2 жыл бұрын
Same with the 3.0 v6?
@curtisgore1611
9 ай бұрын
Is it possible to rebuild with different rings and correct the problem or would it cause other engine control problems
@mick00000000002
3 ай бұрын
If mutable timing cam left and right don't Mach at the same time on the main chain. What would happen. ? Strech Software ware or hardware?
@bluerock5351
7 жыл бұрын
G'day mate, love your accent & your attitude to poor engineering. (bye bye engine LMAO) it's about time we got a fairdinkum Ausie to give it straight and with a fix for the problem. Good onya pal.
@proflowfab
7 жыл бұрын
Blue Rock ha ha... thanks mate. Thr accent was a little put on for the vid, but my attitude is still the same! 😂
@Dalebrah69
6 жыл бұрын
should i buy vz
@jcramond73
6 жыл бұрын
I have a VZ One Tonner and has the v6 Alloytec and it is very reliable, just do an oil service every 5000Km and use good oil, I'm up to 264000Km on the clock and it still runs great. The most recent thing I replaced on it was the oil pressure switch and that was only $30 dollars and 10 minutes later to replace :)
@brettonwoods9856
6 жыл бұрын
Have you ever had to replace the timing chain?
@carlbernngl
6 жыл бұрын
J C did you ever get engine codes come up? Thanks
@PetesGarageandperformance
5 жыл бұрын
The reason one bank is dirtier than the other is because there is a dirty side and fresh air side. It is there to keep fresh metered air flowing through the crankcase. Fresh, clean air comes in the left bank and then flows through the crankcase and out the right bank valve cover orifice to be burned in the intake manifold. I usually see the timing chain issues on more poorly maintained engines. The chains get hot and stretch and the tensioners get starved of oil from the low oil levels. Moral of the story, change your oil sooner than the oil life monitor says. We had some of the R/V body vehicles that were going 12,000 miles before the oil life monitor told them to change their oil! GM later had a recall to reprogram the ECM to lower the interval. But I still wouldn’t ever go over 5k miles per oil change.
@1967davethewave
2 жыл бұрын
I was going to say the same thing. Fresh air is drawn in the front valve cover, through the crankcase and out the rear valve cover/pcv system. The fix would be to have fresh air brought into both valve covers and the vacuum for the pcv system moved to maybe the intake manifold or a dedicated port in the top of the crankcase area. Even old carbureted V8's suffered from this if they had a fresh air filter in one valve cover and a pcv valve in the other. Pontiac V8's from the '60's and '70s had the pcv valve in the push rod valley cover under the intake manifold and some engines like the Buick Big Block had a port in the back of the actual intake manifold as it sealed the push rod valley. It's like the net generation of engineers forgets the lessons learned by the previous ones.
@joer7327
Жыл бұрын
I change mt oil every 3,000 miles once in awhile I'll let go to 3,500 but never move than that. I run full synthetic either Castrol or Valvoline High mileage. I use STP filter. Bought the car with 92k and just went over 155k I just replaced the spark plugs one coil pack valve cover gaskets and spark plug seals. Cleaned the intake and throttle body. Might get another 70k out of it hopefully more
@ethanbatt5583
6 жыл бұрын
Sounds like nevvile bartos, your onto something but
@grandchancelor4732
5 жыл бұрын
"Chopper, there's no cash here. Here, no cash."
@justinnigel3822
5 жыл бұрын
Ethan Batt he’s fuckin flying
@Rick-fs9wc
5 жыл бұрын
Hahahahaha fuck yes you nailed it.
@willfuller8436
5 жыл бұрын
Cash no
@Rick-fs9wc
5 жыл бұрын
@@willfuller8436 Look at me mate im flyin. I. Fuckin flyin.
@barryh1388
5 жыл бұрын
Also they are a engine that was originally designed for the Daewoo Captiva as a East West and slightly tilted back to help oil feed and drain back down the right side head as that is the side which sits next to the firewall. It's just Holden being cheap and not developing the engine to suit a North South layout. Thanks for the video I never noticed the difference in the heads.
@chrismadeley2514
5 жыл бұрын
THANKS FOR KEEPING IT SIMPLE AND VERY CLEAR SIMPLE FIX!!
@jjcoolio1991
3 жыл бұрын
Here... there's no ventilation... robbo?? No ventilation here mate
@armaggedon4christ
5 жыл бұрын
This really reminds me of the 4.6L northstar, great engine murdered by an engineering flaw...a fixable one at that....but neither should have their flaw....
@batmanlives6456
5 жыл бұрын
GM is the flaw
@fatcat4155
4 жыл бұрын
I think the head bolts were to short on the older 4.6 norstars.
@mikecastellon4545
4 жыл бұрын
fat cat my mechanic refers to them as “deathstar” engines
@SunRise-ul7ko
5 жыл бұрын
I have a 2010 SV6 ute from new, 470,000 klm on the clock 80% Driving in Sydney traffic, change full synthetic oil before 7,000 klm, every time, change oil filter every second time. Engine has never had a problem, just a water pump replaced at 380,000klm.
@Missespelt
4 жыл бұрын
I read somewhere they made an update to the engine from 2010 onwards and are much better
@c.g1999
4 жыл бұрын
Slightlymissespelt correct the LFX engine doesn’t suffer from timing chain issues anymore and is a good solid engine
@robywankenobi32
3 жыл бұрын
@@c.g1999 LFX didn't come out until 2011 Series 2 commodores. Sun Rise most likely has a LLT motor - they still have a mirror image PCV system and block design so suffer sluge and thus oil degradation issues, and having SIDI is worse than older LY7 motors as there is no port fuel injectors to keep the intake valves clean
@chrisheffernan7540
4 жыл бұрын
Why can't the stupid engineers figure this out and modify these engines? Why do owners have to be smart enough to do all of this? The GM 3.1 and 3.8 liter engines were bullet proof and lasted 300k miles and did NOT require ANY modification. Thanks for your explanation. I still don't feel I should have to do this. GM should of fixed this a LONG time ago. Does anyone know if this still the same with the new 2020 and 2021 engines?
@recklessclient5304
3 жыл бұрын
Gm 3.1l is known to need a lower intake manifold gasket before 100k miles lol, so not sure if you are 100% informed on the gm v6 60° engines, mostly due to DeX-cool Edited:(Not a modification but still a major problem/flaw that most gm 3.1L owners have had to deal with at some point in time
@chrisheffernan7540
3 жыл бұрын
@@recklessclient5304 I tell u what. Yes, I had to change the intake manifold gaskets before 100k miles. It wasnt due to Dexcool since my engine takes green antifreeze. All the old V6s had the same issue. My engine is currently at 298k miles and never been opened up since. Still purrs like it did at 20k miles. Bullet proof. They make garbage V6 engines today compared to the old withr DOHC weak timing chain systems that need the engine dropped out by 100k for major surgery. Talk to the mechanics, they will tell u the same thing.
@heathstott
3 жыл бұрын
I’m gonna do it right now, as a mechanical fitter that makes perfect sense. Bought mine from new, each 10,000 I drop oil and filter, and administer a good quality injection cleaner every service. It’s done 282 and still runs like the day I got it with the original timing chains😉 This is excellent advice!!!😉😉👍🇦🇺
@jimdent351
7 ай бұрын
I'm sorry did you say that you change the oil every 10,000 km (6,000 mi.)? That's about how frequent I've been doing the oil on my GMC Canyon which is what's recommended in the owner's manual and I'm finding my engine being rebuilt with 162,000 km (102,000 mi.) Same side of the engine too.
@ncckirk
15 күн бұрын
Can also depend on how hard the engine is reved
@bigred8438
14 күн бұрын
Glad they never used those stupid oil bathed rubber belts Ford invented which many European car makers adopted but which no Japanese makers have, which fail and bend valves etc.
@gimmibigpower3888
6 жыл бұрын
hey neville, here no cash, cash no ok... robbo? No cash.....
@Nick-nk2iq
4 жыл бұрын
Did an ignition coil change and I am glad I checked this at the same time. Plastic pipe from the pcv valve and Inlets on the plenum were completely blocked which I cleaned out carefully with a drill bit and a good dousing of brake clean. Thanks for the video, far out.
@raymondgordon3874
2 жыл бұрын
i replaced the plastic pip[e with high temp hose...and replaced the plastic inlets on the plenum with brass ones..
@sidewayzmike
7 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip, I'm gonna double check mine
@mick00000000002
3 ай бұрын
Remove till regeo
@fatcat4155
4 жыл бұрын
I hate this 3.6 ! I have a supercharged 3.8 i would like to put in its place if i could. No more 3.6 motors for me after this one goes. Gotta step up to the 6.2 next time.
@DaBuGzLiFe
4 жыл бұрын
Just update the valve cover gasket and Valve and your engine should be fine unless you've been running the engine with a clogged valve then the engine is probably trashed.
@JasonBlack66
5 жыл бұрын
Doing Line lockers on a standard alloytec isnt really good for the timing chain of any engine, let alone alloy tec. I dont give mine too much load, 50% maybe under overtake. Dont thrash the things, then break them, then call them bad. lol. Min is just coming up to 350,000 km (live deep in country) I service it every 50,000 lol and I have zero timing chain issues. I get a lot of blow by though turning up in my plenum and intake tubing. But again, I really go easy on her, and always warm her up till the auto choke lifts off. (approx 60C) and I take it real easy till shes full up to operating temps. Alloytecs are great. the bad thing is the lack of mods. Esp the type of mods that increase longevity and increase "Thrashability"
@mw292
4 жыл бұрын
Hi there, can you please do a follow up video on how you solved the problem. You have shown us the problem and now we need the solution
@matthewrawson3147
3 жыл бұрын
there is only one solution, preventative maintaince . lack of on time servicing is a death warrent for these engines
@Matt-wt9qd
3 жыл бұрын
Tell me about it, I stupidly let it go a few thousand km’s over its service no my check engine light is showing code for stretched timing chain!!! I’m filthy with myself.. now every company wants a fortune to replace it. Wish I could DIY it myself.. company’s want a $1000 minimum just for parts and a whole days labour and that’s without any gears or sump seals . I’m in a real pickle, my bad!!!
@robywankenobi32
3 жыл бұрын
Drill modifying the PCV orifice is the first thing to do on the vacuum side of the motor to match later LFX motors increase in size of the holes from factory. passengers side clean air inlet tube from between MAF sensor and Throttle body MUST be left alone. I would be very careful and don't take the advice from this video to plumb both rockers into a catch can or atmosphere - that silly suggestions stagnates the crankcase making it worse - as in 1940's illegal draft tube type of WORSE, modifying crankcase plumbing function is also illegal, it has to work in the form of inlet/outlet for Positive Crankcase Displacement Ventilation, maintaining slight vacuum at idle and cruise
@davidgriggs3967
3 жыл бұрын
@@Matt-wt9qd Don't keep driving it with that code , my neighbour did and he jumped teeth and bent his valves.
@davidgriggs3967
3 жыл бұрын
@@Matt-wt9qd When you get the new timing chain make sure to use a catch can off that pcv valve on the right side rocker cover.
@darinr9424
4 жыл бұрын
someone needs to come up with a double roller timing chain for these. double the chain like the oldschool v8 and 4.3l engines
@chicanobluesaz4191
5 жыл бұрын
If you just kept it old school and change your oil every 3000 miles, you probably wouldn't end up with that issue. I have zero faith in the oil life monitoring systems. And this is coming from a 20-year GM technician
@rayg9069
5 жыл бұрын
Oil monitoring systems are basically engine hour meters aren't they? Serious question, I have no idea how they work.
@chicanobluesaz4191
5 жыл бұрын
GM hasn't ever released what they base it off of but im assuming (based off my experience as a technician) they use an algorithm based off of multiple factors such as, Run time, Temperature, Speed, and RPM.
@rayg9069
5 жыл бұрын
@@chicanobluesaz4191 Cool, thanks for the reply. So there are 'smarts' behind the service light.
@IIGrayfoxII
5 жыл бұрын
@@rayg9069 On some. You cant just base it off 10,000km. If you drive it like you stole it 10,000km would be too much, the oil would've burnt up. Same if you do a lot of cold starts Tow a lot as the extra load will cause more heat for the oil. So many factors. We just don't have the exact algorithm they use as in s+a+hXc/$=oil change
@mjt-ew8rs
5 жыл бұрын
chicano--- I agree with you 100%. oil is cheap, engines are not. I own and run a shop, we advise 3k mile lof. anything more, don't cry to me when it breaks.
@tonywhite425
9 ай бұрын
folks change ya oil member oil is cheap engines are not
@EternalyRandom
7 жыл бұрын
Very informative. I have a 2012 Chevy Malibu LTZ with the 3.6. And I'll be checking it soon. Thanks to your video.
@wickedxe
6 жыл бұрын
You do have a point, but. Take an ecotec timing chain and compare the two. ecotec chain is very short and fairly solid. Alloytec chains are very long and lighter weight construction; even GM themselves said they are light weight (this was to limit valve train mass). I have worked on too many 20 + year old holden V6 engines that have hone 20,000KM since last oil change and are even on oil filter bypass due to clogged filter and not seen t/chain issues. The longer the chain is the more solid and resistant to wear they need to be. Mitsubishi Astron II 2.6 L 4 cyl had terrible T/chain wear issues for the same reason; in fact I still identify an Astron II by the T/chain rattle before I even see the car.
@dalemanolas5994
4 жыл бұрын
Some re-engineering would be interesting. For example, cut a hole in the top of the other cam cover and add a threaded tube fitting with a nut on either side and a couple of fiber washers. . Run a 25mm breather line over and connect it into to the other larger breather line on the other rocker cover. It'd be an interesting hack experiment to try to fix an engineering fail.
@pobpitts
3 жыл бұрын
Can someone explain a fix. I understand what his saying but can you get a bigger PCV , remove it completely. Will drilling it out fix the problem. Not mechanically minded so i need some help. Thanks in advance.
@bradarmstrong8059
3 жыл бұрын
Block the manifold vaccumm so you don't have a intake air leak, then remove both pcv hose connections and remove that garage. Drill that small pcv valve out then run both of them into a catch can
@jonharvey2405
7 жыл бұрын
I agree that the Alloytec is bloody good engine! I have had one for well over 7 years and done over 330,000km on it. It has always been serviced regularly with Penrite HPR5 full synthetic oil and the filter changed every service. Every engine has it's faults but from my experience the issues are minor. The biggest problem I had with mine was the water pump leaking but that was an easy fix.
@bradford_shaun_murray
3 жыл бұрын
Penrite HPR5 that's a really good full synthetic motor oil i agree.
@MitchsGold
6 жыл бұрын
Every V type engine will have a cleaner side, and a dirtier side. It is caused by the clean air entering on the breather side, and heats up(and is mixed with blowby gasses) as its drawn through the crankcase to the PCV(vacuum) side. Regular oil changes, and PCV inspection/ cleaning will reduce this effect greatly. If you change the orifice size you will usually cause a driveability issue. Change your oil every 3,000 miles, not every 6-10,000 like recommended. Just my 2 pennies to think about.
@jabax999
6 жыл бұрын
Hey Mitch that makes good sense to me. Wonder why they don't have a breather to both banks? I just bought a VZ I'll be having a look at the PVC and clean it SAP!
@rayg9069
5 жыл бұрын
@@jabax999 They draught clean air across the motor, from left bank where the large hose is through the case and out through the PCV out the right bank.
@fredwaters3420
5 жыл бұрын
Richard Skipper You drilled out the holes on the pcv valve with no issues? No cel?
@kerrielill3716
Жыл бұрын
hes saying every 10,000 Kilometers not miles
@alandy934
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this mate. I’ll definitely be checking this out on my Crewman
@cumminsfj4586
2 жыл бұрын
Run dexos2 oil like shell helix ultra ect c3, mobil 1 esp, valvoline mst. Use ryco syntec filters Clean pcv valve with throttle body cleaner Check oil regularly and top up if required. Change every 5k or 6 months.
@jasonparker3147
4 жыл бұрын
Gunks up when they use wrong oil or don't service regularly, pcv system is fine when it runs properly, mines done over 350 000km & she doesn't miss a beat, runs great. I ALWAYS use a high quality full synth & change that oil every 6 mths or soon as it starts to look blacker than i like it to, oil change! Frequent oil changes with a high quality full synth engine oil is the best investment for engine longevity i think, especially with alloytecs.
@robywankenobi32
7 жыл бұрын
Deleting the PCV System as you have suggested will make the oil gunking worse as the engine vacuum will not suck up vapours and moisture, you got it wrong too, MAF metered Air enters the Passenger side cover (the cleaner side you show)down through the engine and then exits the 1.5mm port up to the the two plenum vac ports while at idle / moderate throttle, only time any vapour will "vent" from the Passenger side larger port will be wide open throttle conditions which is like 1% of the time. Also Australia wide modifying a engines emissions to vent to atmosphere is illegal and will fuck with the metered air from the MAF sensor and will be technically a strange vacuum leak, a plumbed in oil catch can or cyclonic separator like on my LY7 on the vac side/pcv side is legal as it maintains vacuum, a vacuum sealed clean side separator on the passenger side could also be used.
@ScatManAust
3 жыл бұрын
Crank case ventilation in these engines is a problem yes, but its got nothing to do with wear on the chains . The stretch wear on the chains has more to do with inferior chains and guides and the fact that they are too small to do the job long term. In fact the biggest single reason for the stretch is the fact the engine is a V6 configuration and the four single camshafts with three sets of lobes will snatch back and forth three times each turn. Couple that with four cams all doing this snatching puts extreme conditions on the chains, guides and the tensioners . The shit that forms from the poor ventilation can block the check ball valves in the adjusters and stop the adjusters from locking up with hydraulic pressure and thus the adjusters and guides are pulsating with the camshafts snatching and is acting on the ratchet locks of the adjuster and eventually over time will flog the whole mechanism leading to codes coming up in the early stages followed by noisy operation and ultimately catastrophic engine failure in the form of bent valves, broken rockers and stretched or broken camshaft caps and bolts. Now if this engine with four camshafts was a V8 or V10 then this snatching tendency is massively reduced and in the extreme other end if the engine was an inline six single cam of old, then there is next to no bouncing as there is load coming on and off the cam at any given time and the only real load will be the total drag imposed bu the springs and friction. Hope everyone can see the correlation with what I am saying here. Ultimately the underlying fact here is -- the chains, guides and adjusters is too complex under done in sizing for the job required .
@kenezos
3 жыл бұрын
So best to avoid a car with this engine or is there after market solution?
@ScatManAust
3 жыл бұрын
@@kenezos There's plenty of aftermarket replacement components but they do not fix the potential failures nor the design problem. But I would not necessarily stay away from this engine because of the cam drive issues as it is a very good engine. People must service the oil and oil filter regularly and definitely not at 15000 km intervals, that is sheer lunacy on GM'S behalf. If GM had of increased the engine oil capacity and doubled the size of the oil filter and started off with the latter chain and guides, then just about all the problems would not have come about. That and making sure the ventilation system was clean and functioning properly
@kenezos
3 жыл бұрын
@@ScatManAust we used to own a 2010 ve sv6 wagon which was a nice car. However when driving once there was a noise from the engine and couldn’t figure it out. One incompetent mechanic straight away said it was timing chain. It wasn’t. I found that the dip stick showed no oil. No dash light nothing. So this thing was running dry for who knows how long before the noise started. I took it to the stealer who started a case with head office. I had to go to the stealer every 3 weeks for a top up. I knew holden wouldn’t do anything so we got rid of it. It totally put me off. Having said that , I’m looking for a daily driver. I like VF Calais but worry if I’ll have issues, as the previous owner would of just done log book service. So yeah, I don’t know what to do 🤷🏻♂️
@andreotchere6456
3 жыл бұрын
Your conclusion sounds about right.
@bpservopalmer5689
3 жыл бұрын
I have a 2005 vz sv6 commodore Ute it sais they have a wider timing chain before they made them thinner in 2006 does that make it any better or is it no good
@adsfarr9533
5 жыл бұрын
Mate how do I piss the pcv off can u post a video on what should be done to correct this issue pleas tia
@src4409
5 жыл бұрын
Ads Farr yes, because I'm sure removing it will throw a code and have a check engine light on
@Trident_Euclid
5 жыл бұрын
Keep calling him bad names
@josephantonio7059
5 жыл бұрын
Drill it out to a bigger hole... works every time
@demonqb9
5 жыл бұрын
Cadillac forums have multiple tabs on fixing this...basically; tap out the 3 hole in the pcv and add a cheapo catch can to it
@MrPageplayer
5 жыл бұрын
@@demonqb9 Should/Can this be done on a 2013 3.6 ATS?
@seriksson9721
4 жыл бұрын
Yes the main problem is the small holes in the PVC valve.
@paulllacey1344
3 жыл бұрын
ALLOYWRECK
@MTT-ic3ci
6 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Thank you! Finally someone who knows what they are talking about
@mw292
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for working that problem out. I reckon your right
@hoss2200
7 жыл бұрын
Excellent job at explaining the truth (not just your theory). I am a ford guy here in the U.S. (Arizona), but I fix chevys most of the time. I always hated Cadillac. I am doing a top end job on a 2005 srx 3.6 and it has bent valves, broken sprockets/ phasers on the right side of the engine. What the crap? Good for me, I get to make money off of a bad design NOT FAIR FOR THE CONSUMER. thanks for the video and keep up the good work. God bless
@shobud7561
5 жыл бұрын
Funny you should say that , im a Chevy guy and ive made my living off of the Fords & Dodge ! Especially the valve train on the newer Dodge V6 & V8 ..
@GamerDud2003
5 жыл бұрын
@@shobud7561 well anything Chrysler related it not going to last 🤣 I'm a die hard ford guy but if I had to pick any other american brand it would be GM
@majorrgeek
4 жыл бұрын
the problem is more to do with the variable cam locking mechanism failing early and allowing chain slackness which leads to chain failure - low oil pressure is main culprit and problem is due to poor servicing, irregular serving and by not updating to the new GM rocker cover gasket specifically designed to limit the PVC venting and restrict oil burn/loss
@streetcarfactory747
5 жыл бұрын
I run diesel oil in mine 5/30 you would swear that the oil filter is brand new every time I changed it cleans the motor absolutely beautiful never had a problem
@christopherk111
5 жыл бұрын
really appreciate this,,i'm a mechanic and have replaced the thermostat in a few,,stupind place to put a t stat,,,,i just bought a commodore with the LE0 engine,,with 270000ks,,youve given me hope ,it started with a little chain / low oil pressure noise,,youve deffinently found the solution to the problem,,,terrific info,,thank you
@janet53589
4 жыл бұрын
The breather isn't the issue. The issue is the breakdown of the oil. This engine requires oil changes at lower intervals, e.g. 5000 miles. That would cure all the problems.
@korzym
4 жыл бұрын
I changed my oil every 5-7,000 km, with synthetic oil, and i STILL got this issue at only 72,000 miles, I drove pretty hard and have concerns my oil levels were lower than they should have been, actually once I had way more oil that I should have had, because a lube shop was doing it.
@globuslive
4 жыл бұрын
Definitely they didn't change the oil on time. Thats very abused looking engine, even if we look at the cleaner part....
@AllTerrainAction
3 жыл бұрын
still need to clean PCV though, should be cleaned every oil change or at least every 2 using carby cleaner & high pressure air until all clear, once you do it regulary its an easy quick job.
@josesalinas6710
4 жыл бұрын
Garbage GM It baffles me people still buy there cars in the US
@qq-hk2sq
7 жыл бұрын
Although both banks on my 175k miles 08 CTS DI motor looked pretty clean during a recent valve cover gasket replacement, this is an interesting theory because I believe the P0008 DTC is the most common indicator of possible timing chain trouble here in the U.S. and that code references the right bank (passenger side in a rear drive car U.S. car). The difficulty I have with the theory is that all 4 cam phasers are exposed to the same environment and as a result I would expect a more random appearing related code setting. The appearance of the troubled side of the engine in this demo makes me curious about the role high engine oil temps could be playing in all of this as that's one of the significant benefits that full synthetic oil has along with its detergents. Perhaps two additional oil squirters spraying, one on each cam chain along with an engine oil cooler holding temps to 180-200 deg may be the ultimate solution as engine oil runs hotter than the coolant temps and is the reason that some cars use engine coolant to keep the engine oil temps in check. I've measured oil temps on a non DOHC V6 as high as 240 degrees during Summer low speed city driving and I know it gets hotter than that. A chain with a good bit of heat in it has a lot of stretching ability if it's already long and on the small side as the lower the metal density the lower the heat capacity and the greater the ability to expand and distort. I believe a good engine oil cooler will help this situation as well.
@closertothetruth9209
3 жыл бұрын
Holden said its mostly due to low oil, then a guy also showed upgrades rocker cover gaskets to further reduce flow through pvc to reduce the excessive oil flowing through pvc into the intake, i do know some earlier 24v engines were renoun for using oil from new straight past the valve stem seals etc. Holden said to us its normal for brand new engines to come in for a service and see nothing on the dip sticks, my brother inlaws brand new ve did that also years ago, so you get stretched chains from the resulting heat caused by low oil situations etc.
@heartbreakr3191
5 жыл бұрын
I've got an 06 rodeo 400k no history of timing chains being done I'm scared to take the rockers off. Although I do service it every 2500 km
@darrylcampbell4411
4 жыл бұрын
Well done. Thats why.
@markusgarvey
4 жыл бұрын
WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN VENTILATION! You got it. They redesigned the V/C gaskets, but I don't think that was enough, it makes it better, but putting a big pcv valve, like a big V-8 would do the trick. It was also discovered that the reminder for an oil change was at 12k miles!. That is way too long. That wa a lot of sludge buildup. I use Moblie 1. I use it in my 99 C5 and It had been changed religiously in that engine,. I bought it at 115k and it didn't use a drop of oil, and I drove it hard until 144k when a lake appeared in the middle of the highway one dark morning and I hydrolocked. It broke #5 connecting rod in half and through the side of the block, I still was able to drive 3 miles home. When I tore the engine down, the inside was still spotless, ands you could still see crosshatch marks on the cylinder walls. Mobile 1, Valvoline or Castrol are the best consumer oils.
@jabax999
6 жыл бұрын
CLEAN THE PCV VALVE AND KEEP IT CLEAN...Thanks proflowfab for the talk and video on these engines (i just bought a VZ after owning a VT for 5 years) I'll be doing it SAP! If nothing else it's a wake up call to keep the PCV valve clean at least. Mitchs comment that the clean air is drawn in the side that ends up relatively clean side and the dirty side has the PCV valve which draws out the air circulated through the engine is a very good one I reckon. So if the PCV valve is blocked the sour air in the crank case can't get out and circulation of air is stopped. So I think proflowfab you've not got it right to remove the PCV valve because this draws out the air/gas inside the engine and I think helps keep the engine somewhat clean. The one you show looks like it was probably blocked for a long time maybe causing the issue of dirty bank 2. proflowfab you say you've done a lot engines, have you usually found the PCVs blocked? I doubt if this could cause the chain problems alone. Seems good servicing will help against poor GM materials and poor design. (I am a qualified mechanical engineer [mechanic]) but got out the trade after my apprenticeship to go off and play rock n roll for a living, did I say a living? Lucky I had a good wife who had a good day job! john b.
@donthitmeimwoozy
4 жыл бұрын
Theres no ventilation here... Here no ventilation... ventilation? No.
@Dave.S.TT600
4 жыл бұрын
Hahaha not too many people would get that awesome.
@ChoocherFronz
4 жыл бұрын
Dave S. Robbo? No Ventilation.
@chrisolsen3299
4 жыл бұрын
Cash lots of cash here though
@Missespelt
4 жыл бұрын
Nope no ventilation here
@gazsaz97
4 жыл бұрын
Now look what it's gone and done... Ya mothers all upset.
@preteristlab-endtimes5683
4 жыл бұрын
Lurv this guy. He convinced me with crystal-clear logic and demonstration. I got two Rodeo's. Tomorrow I "piss the damn PCV's off!' Onya dude. Mozzman
@Glathier
3 жыл бұрын
Do you just remove that valve and not put anything in its place?
@Stevei-075
5 жыл бұрын
the fixed the colouring by using diesel oil and drilling out the rocker cover breather on the right side.
@titanx04
5 жыл бұрын
I’m in process of rebuilding a 3.6 LLT now, timing was out but found metal around cam sensors. The oil filter housing was broken. Now I want to put the 3.6 in my omega, I know it’s a computer issue but what on the engine could be replaced from 3.0 to allow this to happen, must be a sensor or something. I service My 3.0 every 7500klms.
@alanarnold7889
3 жыл бұрын
That's GOLD mate, my mums just done her vz injector fkup and rhe mechanics telling her $5000 for an engine replacement, calling it timing chain malfunction. Don't worry thats not gunna happen I'll be driving 1000km and do a it myself b4 that happens... but come on we need more of your attitude buddy and good call. Im gunna drill it out and put a moisture catch on maybe 4inch elbow joint or something.
@MitchZero9
Жыл бұрын
Barra's dont have this problem 😏😏
@allrock1238
4 жыл бұрын
there is a new redesigned valve cover gasket for that bank to address some of the oil use issues with that pcv setup ..
@JDJD-mw9rr
4 жыл бұрын
Isn't there a SB to drill out the pcv valve out to a bigger whole? This has to be the main problem. Whos ridiculous idea was a 1mm whole to vent crank case pressure?
@DaBuGzLiFe
4 жыл бұрын
@@JDJD-mw9rr if you buy a new one, it should be already updated and they are cheaper than buying a drill or the specified size bits. But if you have a drill and bits already then its a free mod.
@JDJD-mw9rr
4 жыл бұрын
@@DaBuGzLiFe i don't even have this motor, it was just interesting to me
@unknownuser954
3 жыл бұрын
Can I show my mechanic this video and have the problem solved?
@dylandylan11731
6 жыл бұрын
Genius!! You are spot on and entirely correct...thank you!!!
@eonitesh5398
9 ай бұрын
Hey mate luv your video... ive drilled hole to 5mm made it smoth thanks for the idea...quick question can you please tell me where is the crank sharft angle sensor location is im looking everywhere no luck yet can you help mate cheers
@TerryJonesPrinterRepairs
5 жыл бұрын
Totally on the money with the engineering and issue but I can't help feeling i'm watching a video cross between con the fruiterer and Chopper Reid.
@DemopVWgarage
4 жыл бұрын
bahahaha on point :)
@CailenCambeul
3 жыл бұрын
I'm older and don't drive my VZ much, so I thought the oil'd be OK. After 12 months, it was sludge. 6 month oil changes and the car runs perfect now. Redone breaks, suspension and lowered, radiator, tailshaft, with added catback exhaust, fat low profile tyres with 18 inch Holden mags, and (by the previous owner) a body kit that I've variously been told is Tom Walkinshaw and HSV original (but really, I don't know or care other than I like it), I'm also told it was chipped, and finally just painted matt black also helps. Sure, I put more money into my car than it's worth, but if it's the last car I'm ever going to own, then WGF? It's not an absolute dream to drive, but it's mine and it's better than the HZ and HR, HQ's, HJ and Austin 1800 before it. To drive, it's the best and last car I'll ever have. I like my VZ Alloytec, and the Ecoteckers with their chip on their shoulder can go flail themselves.
@tortor0782
2 жыл бұрын
From a fellow VZer that cops the flack from his ECO mates, I think I couldn’t have said it better myself. Early oil changes and the ECO mob can go jump🤣
@bamadave1983
7 жыл бұрын
Could it be the vacuum on the right side of the motor not allowing the oil drain back proper ?the left side pulls fresh air in from breather allowing the vacuum from other side of motor pull it down into crank case on left side. The right side now has to overcome the vacuum etc pulling it up to drain back just a theory what you think
@darrylcampbell4411
4 жыл бұрын
CHANGE YOUR OIL REGULARLY> AND YOUR FILTER> I would suggest every 3000 kms . Might not seem a lot and its not. Buy its cheeper than risking an engine problem. your engine oil is your cars life blood. we all need good blood to function. Think about it. Its a no brainer when you think about it . DO IT PEOPLE. Be nice to your car . It does a lot for you aye?
@DaBuGzLiFe
4 жыл бұрын
Why is it that GM updated the rocker cover gasket and blocked off even more of the PCV port?
@robywankenobi32
3 жыл бұрын
This new gasket 99% block off the rear head to sump void, this doesn't exist in the LGX and LF4 TT versions of the motor, if this isn't blocked in with the gasket, the Drivers side rocker cover area over the cams is starved of vacuum/positive displacement - instead stale air short circuits up from the sump/ rear of motor as least resistance, leaving entire drivers side CAM and chains etc to become stagnate and attacked by blow by acids forever. The gasket seals this void allowing CAM to PCV area 100% exclusive path, forcing passenger rocker > cam cover /crank > drivers side rocker cover consistent flow.
@samyeomans6710
8 ай бұрын
These engines are horrible. I have a Holden rodeo, 190,000kms and I’ve had nothing but problems. But it always starts and drives no matter how badly it’s screwed. Always starts. Does have misfires and stuff when it breaks. But yeah.
@jonnyindianajd
5 жыл бұрын
You know, I've been on here for years. Spent a lot of time in South Africa, been around a few Aussies. From my experience, there are more honest, fun Loving, truth seeking Australian people per capita than anywhere else in the world. What I've just written may seem a little bit extreme, but I'm from California I love the truth come what do you think the fires are blazing, there man-made and there are so many truth lovers on the pioneering Spirit California West coast it's not even funny. Thank you, your GREAT! John from Noblesville.
@robertbell525
4 жыл бұрын
I believe most if not all oil related problems can be solved with synthetic oil, changed at 5000 miles or less. But people are too cheap to let jiffy lube put synthetic in, so they opt for regular oil, then run it to 10K miles like the oil monitor wants. Then their engine dies at 100K and they complain.
@askarijudd6444
7 жыл бұрын
This is what happened when you change oil every 10000 miles... no oil can stand 10000 miles.. manufacturing want you to change oil every 10,000 miles so when you hit the 60,000 miles you got to junk the car and spend another 30,000 for new car. All game in the car industry
@AZestyM
7 жыл бұрын
Miles vs. Kilometers
@zoticus1
5 жыл бұрын
Richard Skipper I would go six full synth
@korzym
5 жыл бұрын
I changed my oil, every 7000km or so, and used a new air filter and synthetic oil each time. My check engine light still came on at 98,000km. The previous owner had her for 28,000km so I wonder what he did to it.
@OffGridInvestor
5 жыл бұрын
He actually meant 10 thousand kilometers. Because that was the standard oil change here until the start of the 2000s. I know of guys who have changed every 5000kms (like about 3000 miles) and have brilliant engine life on whatever they drive.
@davidmackieson4609
5 жыл бұрын
Junk a car at 60,000 miles haha what fuckin planet you on
@alloyspeed1889
4 жыл бұрын
Wow great info bud. seems like someone should make a kit for all vehicles that has this v6
@bradbell3818
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely cheers for the confirmation 👍
@SupremeTycoon
5 жыл бұрын
Nice one mate. Very informative about what is actually causing the failure of the timing chains on these engines.
@cruza1289
8 ай бұрын
Ive been told due to poor ventilation and heat build up stretches them
@stevemildura2707
6 жыл бұрын
Is about time someone know,s what the fuck he,s on about👏👏👏best motor video ever seen with no suger coating shit👍the no bullshit attitude makes it even better.good job mate.
@jaishipley3689
3 жыл бұрын
Just took mine out this morning. It was completely blocked. Drilled bigger holes into the pcv valve and now the engine runs very cool and has WAY better throttle response
@MrColeman631
3 жыл бұрын
So drill out the bottom holes
@saimongoo5213
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrColeman631 Yes also do them
@greggc8088
6 жыл бұрын
I'll agree with that it is a contributing factor but there are others that may contribute an even greater part- 1. Engines run too hot now days to burn off HC and that causes premature wear on the nylon/plastic guides. 2. The chain isn't finished smooth on the links so the sharp edges cut into the guides. 3. The chain is made of an inferior material and wears/stretches too fast. GM's problems usually don't lie with the engineers. It usually lies with the bean counters cutting cost and quality of the materials that are used in the design. Too bad, really, It's a strong running engine that could last a long time. Still can if rapid revving of the engine is avoided(bad on the guides and chain stretch) and synthetic oil(reduces wear on inferior parts) is used. Still plan on putting at least one chain in this engine during it's lifetime if you own one.
@UNITED2009100
2 жыл бұрын
2014 Acadia with 153,000 miles. Am I at risk????
@leavenosconeunturned2554
Жыл бұрын
@@UNITED2009100 Surprised you're not dead already!!!!
@tortor0782
2 жыл бұрын
Upgrade the Pcv with a Toyota one if my memory is right, breathes heaps better.... and always use a oil flush before dropping the oil out during service.
@philipzerna9654
3 жыл бұрын
Good call with the changing oil at more like 5000 ks , my daughter bought a ve second hand and I'm doing my research ! Good forum man and the crank case vent is something I'll change out ! Thanks !
@ariesweapon2721
6 жыл бұрын
Just bought 2 VZ 05 06 Both have alloy techJust seen your video. I'm a mechanic as well I would've been scratching my head on why the colour difference two. That's a bloody GOOD FIND well done. Just save me a lot of time going why. One of two things Holden JUST FUCKED UP on it. Or they done it on purpose so you would do the timing chains $$$$$$ 4 HOLDEN. Mad that you work it out but bro.
@freefall0483
5 жыл бұрын
Good argument but you missed the most obvious problem with the timing system. It's a single row chain. It really needs to be double row. The engine light issue on them is because the chain itself is not strong enough. It streches like hell and the management software detects the variation between crank angle and cam angle so it throws an engine light and a code. Holden's fix was to allow more room in the software for the stretch. This was stupid. The point at which the light comes on with the software update is the point of failure for the chain. Many chains snap before the updated software tells you there is a problem. Holden engineered the software update specifically to keep the engine light off for long enough that the engine was out of warranty before the light came on again. They put a bandaid on the boil and the bloody boil usually bursts after the warranty ended. Alloytec owners need to start a class action against Holden for this. The motor is not fit for purpose and it never was. It does not and has never met anything close to the requirements of Australian consumer law in regards to the expected life of the engine.
@brendotec7241
5 жыл бұрын
Class Action, what are we Americans? I sue yo ass! :P But yeah, in regard Aussie Consumer law, Holden should offer a longer warranty on the engine repairs, much like Mitsi did with Magna 10 year powertrain warranty.
@Flamamacue
Жыл бұрын
I watched this one a few months ago after swapping a new engine into my VZ. Almost considered taking the PCV out/modding it as per this video but didn't feel like I knew enough about it and didn't want to bugger anything up. Well, it just died last week due to the timing chain. Rocker cover terrible on the driver side and PCV valve fully blocked. If you've got an Alloytec, do something about the PCV if you want it to last.
@Jack36255
10 ай бұрын
it's recommended to clean/replace every service, I just purchased my ve and have just now blown out the pcv valve, it was gunked up
@myredute
4 жыл бұрын
Penrite 5W30 oil every 5,000 kays plus filter & your Alloytec will love you for it.
@darrylcampbell4411
4 жыл бұрын
thats the key. regular oil and filter changes.
@theaveragejoestinkeringand4407
4 жыл бұрын
I can’t believe these engines took the place of the old 3.1s and 3.4. I know they are more powerful but I’d rather have the reliability. This timing crap is the reason I won’t own a ford triton. Should have stuck with pushrods in the cars also.
@tonywhipple
4 жыл бұрын
Actually not to bad but vvt crap add more complexity and packaging is trash. Can u believe these assholes want u to pull engine out to do oil pan!!!!
@FourbrrlGrabber
7 жыл бұрын
You are CORRECT !! PCV system ?? naaah, its a restricted ORFICE that's SUPPOSED to ventilate the crank case pressure ;)There's an "updated" cover, here in the US, that ( I believe) is nothing more than a cover with a larger orifice hole.I HAVE drilled the orfice larger without creating fuel trim issues @ idle.Do they consume large quantities of oil over there too ?? !! LOL
@Katmandu2
7 жыл бұрын
Some pics and more details (PART #s ETC) would be very helpful mate !
@michaelflynt6788
Жыл бұрын
Timing chains don't stretch and the hydraulic tension is built to take up excess slack
@peanutbutterisfu
5 жыл бұрын
Use synthetic oil and change it often and it will run forever
@johnDingoFoxVelocity
5 жыл бұрын
This is actually not surprising GM is a cheap bastered has always been.
@michcreach5635
4 жыл бұрын
The oil filter on this engine is too small in capacity in my opinion. Change half way through your oil change intervals to keep gunk from forming. 6000k max full synthetic + 3000k oil filter change outs. Because the oil filter is on top it's easy and non messy.
@saimongoo5213
3 жыл бұрын
Ahah plot twist. Try and change an alloytec oil filter in a Rodeo then you will know what true pain is.
@imnotsure8250
5 жыл бұрын
Hyundai /Kia lambda engine suffer from the same sludge build up, but I think it caused by the oil filter location on top similar to one you have
@rcalltypes8230
4 жыл бұрын
Drill out the small PVC holes!
@bthompson1767
4 жыл бұрын
And let oil spill out the hole
@Markart50
4 жыл бұрын
@@bthompson1767 oil go down not up....
@kreglamirand2637
3 жыл бұрын
So I initially watched and liked this vid shortly after getting the dreaded P0008/P0017 codes in my '06 2.8L CTS (we call it a HFV6 in North America, no Holden here). Cleaned my 4 CPS and 2 VVT solenoids to no avail. I decided to pick up an excellent condition used 3.6L from a wrecker to swap it out. Took the valve covers off the new(er) one today and although the engine was immaculate compared to the one in this vid, I can confirm the left bank was far cleaner/brighter that the right bank. I'll be replumbing the PCV system and possibly adding some auxiliary oil filtration and a catch can. With that addressed, are there any decent aftermarket bolt ons for these engines?
@ratrodramblin
Жыл бұрын
The replacement valve cover gasket blocks that pcv system even worse.
@americanlawdawg3609
6 жыл бұрын
Yes, I noticed the same thing under the valve covers, same with the pcv vent being plugged ....
@adrianrolfe3821
Жыл бұрын
Champion! Thanks for the info
@LurkMoar101
6 жыл бұрын
Mate you're onto something here. Used to see this shit everyday (engine builder by trade) and was forever ragging on the old allytech down.
@ckrahe3605
3 жыл бұрын
Just bought a VZ wagon that needed a timing chain. Got the timing kit, inlet gasket kit and timing cover gaskets kit online for under $500. Did the job myself on a weekend. Cleaned out the rocker covers and PCV lines while it was apart. She’s good for service again now. They’re a pretty well designed and packaged engine. Better gasketed and more modern engineering than the old mangers.
@jenifercaterton78
3 жыл бұрын
3.8L buick no trouble
@Occy454
Жыл бұрын
Shit bro where did you manage to find that kit for $500...
@guitardave3028
Жыл бұрын
@@Occy454amazon, I just did ons...
@GlideYNRG
5 жыл бұрын
I do big long kays in my VE Omega. But, I change the oil out every 10 thousand, not the 15 thousand they lay out in the "service" guide. Full synthetic Pentrite. Taken a while to warm to the alloytec but it's done near on 170000kms and touch wood, has been a good motor. I'll be going back to an EcoTec though if it shits the tin.
@TristosLife
4 жыл бұрын
My VZ just hit 276k and hasn't missed a beat. Curious to see if your VE is still going.
@gregthornthwaite8011
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah... Right !!
@ramanjitsingh4340
5 жыл бұрын
15,000kms service interval is rubbish
@geoffdavis4730
5 жыл бұрын
Complete and total nonsense 15000 klms . Change every 5000 use engine flush always change filter same time good quality oil premium petrol. Not just commodore V6 any engine , No sludge ,not rocket science ,as for the foul comments grow up or you will never be any good at mechanics.
@alexlawrence8310
4 жыл бұрын
How the pvs works is that the left bank rocker cover is open to filtered air from between the air filter and throttle body, the right hand bank has that valve with the 1.5mm hole which is connected between the throttle body and inlet manifold, so what happens is the vaccum in the inlet manifold draws gases from the crankcase , so fresh filtered air enters the left rocker box, travels down through the engine and is finally sucked into the engine via that tiny 1.5mm pvc valve, so my question is, if you disconnect that pvc valve how are you going to get any ventilation ie removal of crankcase gases etc, I think you would make the matter worse if you removed this valve,
@robywankenobi32
6 жыл бұрын
Do not vent to atmosphere, that it will only make it worse and break and take the engines design back to the 1940's, mod the PCV orifice as per what is found onLFX engines and newer. Also the rocker cover gasket design was changed where it has an infill panel on the seal over the rear section, the version shown here is the old gasket. There is in fact a link from the cam area to the PCV via a slot in the plastic of the cam cover to act as a built in Oil/Air seperator.
@johnnyversaci7091
5 жыл бұрын
Took a while to figure out why there was an oil consumption problem on my 3.6 Malibu. I'm thinking the updated valve cover gasket and new pcv valve on the rear valve cover will solve it
@robywankenobi32
5 жыл бұрын
@@johnnyversaci7091 hey yeah, personally i have a 08 VE wagon with the LY7 in it, have no idea what gasket is in it on the PCV orifice side. Also if you haven't already check this link www.moderncamaro.com/forum/v6-engine-discussion/53385-llt-lfx-pcv-orfice-mod-importance.html , This is further to my original post above where a guy found that on LFX engines the hole for the PCV port is been enlarged to increase flow in the PCV - he had warned GM engineers years before and they took notice, pop out the PCV orifice and drill it out "drill the top hole to 7/64's, and the two bottom ones 5/64's", He also has a great explanation of how the system is designed to work - which applies to many cars on the road and not just GM/Holden. Note you may have more ingested oil from doing the PCV mod, but that's the point of PCV/CCV is to use engine vacuum to suspend the contaminants from settling in the oil and the metal work inside and move them on.
@tracylewisperformance2270
5 жыл бұрын
Excellent engines, but ONLY use a good full synthetic oil, and if its the GDI version (LLT/LFX) the amount of raw fuel entering the crankcase use a heavier viscosity oil. The PCV orifice barb must be drilled to 5/64" bottom 2 holes, and 1/8" top hole. Do NOT vent, that leaves most all of the damaging contaminants in the crankcase.
@mrmann4557
3 жыл бұрын
Great video sir well explained. I just had my timing chain done about two weeks ago and when the covers got taken off the driver side of the engine was so clean it looked as if it wasn't receiving any oil. On the other hand the passenger side was a different story but it wasn't bad at all it was pretty much clean. So my question is what can I replace the passenger side pcv with so it can breath better?
@SophiaAphrodite
2 жыл бұрын
I would just drill out the valve and make it pass through.
@joshghazi
10 ай бұрын
great info, sick vid subscribed!
@jamesberreth7171
2 жыл бұрын
This is the most comprehensive explanation pertaining to the issues these engines exhibit I've heard yet! I cleaned and cleared the buildup in my PCV for my 2010 Traverse about 3 months before I got the dreaded timing code. I now have it almost completely torn down and ready to explore. Better believe I'll be replacing the PCV with a wider breather setup!
@BobbyFincher-us3dr
Жыл бұрын
How did it go? What did you replace?
@jamesberreth7171
Жыл бұрын
@@BobbyFincher-us3dr I am embarrassed to admit that she is still torn apart waiting to be reassembled in my garage. Being a small business owner and full time student makes time a precious commodity. As far as I can tell, everything looks good. The old chains were stretched slightly so I am hoping the new chains will do the trick. I recently bought a scope to I could peak down the intake chambers and to the crankshaft to make sure everything was good and noticed heavy buildup of carbon on every single intake and exhaust valve and I am trying to figure out how to clean them up without having to remove the heads, which will only delay things further.
@YOUTUBE-BOT-l5j
10 ай бұрын
@@jamesberreth7171do i engine flush with liqui Molly than drop oil pan and clean the oil pickup where the gunk builds up and fill back up with oil
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