Back in 1970, as a young trainee broadcast engineer, I found myself working in the telecine department at a regional studio. We still operated dual standard standard at the time, switching between 405 and 625 line as required, though both were still monochrome. One day, we had some American engineers visiting, who were quite complementary about the resolution of our 625 images. They were very shocked to be informed that, at the time of their visit, we were actually operating 405-line...! 405-line was much better than people give it credit for, but by the time we were preparing for 625-line, other improvements had been made to the transmission system, most notably FM audio replacing AM, and negative picture modulation of the vision carrier. Both these gave a huge improvement in both interference rejection and fringe reception, and were at least as valuable as the improved resolution.
@BlaiddLlwyd
11 ай бұрын
My grandparents kept their old monochrome 405-line TV until just before the shutdown. I remember watching it in the 80s, not bothered by the lack of colour or less definition. A lot of older houses in the place I grew up had the old aerials for a long time as well. EMI's system really lasted.
@j0hnf_uk
11 ай бұрын
Most of those old VHF aerials stayed up on roofs simply because no-one could afford to have them brought down. I remember seeing some of them well into the 90's! Mother Nature eventually provided the, 'service', though as they slowly deteriorated and came down with the help of gravity.
@trevordance5181
11 ай бұрын
@@j0hnf_uk You still see some of those old aerials on roof tops now, even though it is nearly 40 years after the 405 line switch off. Some of those old aerial riggers did a really good job in installing them.
@whatamalike
11 ай бұрын
@@trevordance5181yep. Where I live is a bunch of old terraced houses built in the very early 1900s. There are a handful of 405 line aerials on some near me and no sign on coming down!
@HughTVDX
11 ай бұрын
By the early 80's some of the 625 to 405 standards converters at the transmitter sites were giving poor conversion quality. Apparently London Ch9 was particularly bad.. Very few people were watching it by then anyway.
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
@@HughTVDX I've read about that too - on the North Wales coast we had no such issues, the 405 pictures were perfect right up till switch off - I expect the equipment was newer since North Wales would have been one of the last areas to get coverage.
@ElectromagneticVideos
11 ай бұрын
Fabulous documentary! It must have been amazing to see 405 line TV in the UK years before decent quality TV programming occurred anywhere else! regards for Canada!
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! It may seem primitive now but I think 405 deserves all the credit!
@ElectromagneticVideos
11 ай бұрын
@@AdamMartyn Primitive yes, but when you think about it, all the higher resolution analog formats were just scaled versions of it in either vertical or horizontal resolution, so brilliant original concept. I'm a bit surprised they even tested the lower resolution mechanical TV again the all electronic 405 line - the advantages seem so apparent. I have always been fascinated by TV and its history (particularly the technical aspects) - you channel is great - keep up the good work!
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
@@ElectromagneticVideos i'm wondering if at that time all electronic systems were viewed with some scepticism, there were some limitations with the early cameras (though nowhere near the problems and limitations of baird's system) and cinema at that time and for decades afterwards was based on a mechanical process.
@ElectromagneticVideos
11 ай бұрын
@@michaelmcdonald2348 I never thought of that! I'll bet your right. And with vacuum tubes aka values being so new back then it probably wasnt nearly as obvious which was going to be best as is it to use looking back!
@telocho
11 ай бұрын
Couple remarks: a. 405 line service was paused in world war two. So even if it started in 1936, only a few homes had a set. For standardisation or backwards compatibility it was not really needed to stick to that norm. TV service did not resume until at least 1945. b. The coverage in early TV was not national, many relays didn’t start until late fifties and tv sets were still expensive and scarce. c. Countries in mainland Europe started regular tv service in 1950 since they first needed attention on the rebuild, but did this then straight from the start in VHF 625 like in the Netherlands and Germany. 625 in 1950 was technically already possible. They never had the disadvantage of being (or feeling) locked to one system. The late fifties and early sixties was when tv sets were finally selling by the millions.
@CB1000FP1
11 ай бұрын
At the beginning of the 70s I worked for a TV shop as a delivery and installation driver, a lot of our customers still had only 405 line sets with 2 aerials a X, and an H, many were venturing into the new colour sets (the rich ones) where they had to have a new toastrack aerial fitted which was also required for BBC 2 which if I remember was always on 625 lines
@LostsTVandRadio
11 ай бұрын
405 lines on a typical 12 inch set of the 50s looked fine, but once larger sets became available the picture was noticeably 'liney'. The dual standard TVs of the 1960s were notoriously unreliable, but the 625 picture was a big improvement. You can still see the occasional band I and band III VHF aerials on rooftops, unused for around 40 years.
@prairiewolfo9274
11 ай бұрын
The trouble with the real old sets, free-standing in mahogany cabinets about three feet tall, is that it took an eternity for the valves to warm up and the picture appear after you’d turned it on.
@LostsTVandRadio
11 ай бұрын
Oh yes - all that waiting! I remember it well!@@prairiewolfo9274
@LostsTVandRadio
11 ай бұрын
I remember seeing a transistorised set in the early seventies which had a cathode heater in the tube. Almost instant start-up! I did worry about what an unnecessary waste of energy it was though.@@prairiewolfo9274
@sundog486
11 ай бұрын
@@prairiewolfo9274 Actually it takes my "smart" TV just as long to boot up and display anything sensible!
@prairiewolfo9274
11 ай бұрын
@@sundog486 Wow!
@DaScritch
11 ай бұрын
Just for the joke, "high def" in France was imposed in 1948, with a 819 standard. This is due to the fact that the 441 lines system was an inherited from the German system, during the occupation (The occupation TV for German troops was supposed to be destroyed during the retreat, but let intact and fully functionnal). The "low def" 441 system was stopped brutally due to a fire of the transmitter in 1956, and the very small number of tv sets (less than 500) : offering a vouncher to buy an "high-def" system was cheaper for the state than rebuild the transmitter. The 819 "K" system was developed by Henri de France , was to wide on frequency to add a colour system. And funnily, this is the same engineer who created the SECAM colour system, on the CCITT standard 625 lines "BG" system.
@petermainwaringsx
11 ай бұрын
I remember the introduction of 625 line TV. It really seemed a quantum leap in viewing quality. Also after the introduction of colour the US programs like The Rowan & Martín Laugh In were still 525 lines with black bands top and bottom. The standards conversion equipment used by the BBC was big and expensive, Worth a video maybe? Thanks for the nostalga. Subscribed!
@HughTVDX
11 ай бұрын
In the early days of BBC 2 625 lines Black and white on Uhf the tuners used valves, if you had even a vaguely marginal signal,there was a sort of foggy, grainy effect on 625 pics. 405 pics in comparison had real 'ooomph' (to use the technical term!).. Things changed quickly though after 1969 when all 3 networks were 625 and colour. Valve Uhf tuners were rapidly replaced with much better transistor ones. .
@roberttucker805
11 ай бұрын
I was a television engineer in 1985 when the 405 system was switched off and had managed to find an old Murphy dual standard black and white set that I got working and watched the shut down on 405. The set was on its last legs but having managed to unsolder the system switch that would give so much trouble as the set aged and were often soldered up by engineers to be permanently on 625 and replacing a couple of capacitors it actually gave a reasonable picture. I think I had to rejuvenate the crt, something that used to give a few months life to a well used t.v. I don't recall what happened to the old Murphy but I no doubt it's been consigned to landfill.
@mattikaki
11 ай бұрын
Thank you very much. I was working at MTV Finland as a senior video maintenance engineer and was always wondered that your 405 line system. We admired the BBC picture quality which was the very best of all the countries.
@TheGramophoneGirl
11 ай бұрын
I vaguely remember watching the 405 line transmissions in the early 80s as a kid. We had a sony b&w portable tv that received both 405 & 625. When watching tv up in the bedroom I found that the 405 reception was pretty much perfect on a crappy pull out aerial compared to the 625 b&w picture. Though it noticeably had lower resolution and lines, it was overall clearer. I remember being disappointed when 405 was switched off as the portable then only received the snowy 625 uhf picture. The colour tv downstairs was fine - having a proper rooftop aerial.
@LostsTVandRadio
11 ай бұрын
The vision modulation on a 405 line set was the opposite way round to that of a 625 set which gave quite a different 'feel' and contrast to the picture, particularly in weak signal areas. Typically a 405 line set with no signal had a dark screen - the signal created the light parts of the picture. (The same was true for the French 819 line system.) With a 625 line set the screen without a signal was typically white and the introduction of the signal created the dark parts of the picture. The positive modulation on 405 also tended to create very noticeable interference problems if unsuppressed electrical devices were used nearby, or if cars without a good condenser passed nearby.
@trevordance5181
11 ай бұрын
I grew up with 405 lines tv and the black and white pictures it showed were very acceptable with a good contrast between light and dark and the definition was sharp especially when viewed on the screen sizes of the day. Also using a comparatively small number of transmitters almost all of the UK's population could receive the service.
@lawrencedoliveiro9104
11 ай бұрын
I never saw an actual 405-line broadcast, but I have seen recordings of, say, earlier episodes of _The Avengers_ compared with later ones. Look at the Cathy Gale episodes, all of which are monochrome, and compare with the first Emma Peel season, which is also monochrome, yet the difference is astounding. I think the earlier shows were recorded in 405-line video, while Emma Peel was on film. By comparison, those earlier episodes look positively murky.
@trevordance5181
11 ай бұрын
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 I would image some of those old video recordings are pretty much worn out by now and are nowhere near the quality they were when first broadcast. As you say the later episodes with Diana Rigg used film for international sales which has been much better preserved and also used many more outside locations and switched to colour filming too.
@lawrencedoliveiro9104
11 ай бұрын
@@trevordance5181 Worn-out video doesn’t get darker, though.
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 The biggest problem when evaluating earlier episodes of programmes like The Avengers is that the conversion was performed by pointing a 16mm cine camera at a monitor. Videotape was expensive so would be wiped and reused. The film transfers could be easily duplicated and used in other markets with differing line standards. Telerecording as it was called had other issues like inaccurate geometry, but in many cases is now the only surviving medium for these older episodes. The later series were made on film purely for sale overseas (particularly the USA where it was popular), later episodes were also made in colour for the same market, while in the UK at the time there was no ITV colour service. The upside is that the episodes made on film can now be seen in high definition in a way not possible at that time.
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104Cheap film stock did, though. You’re watching a poorly-developed positive print of a negative of a telerecorder’s monitor screen.
@darkstarnh
11 ай бұрын
Well memories! I was a sound engineer at HTV Wales (now ITV Wales) during that period. I was on the news crew covering the shutdown at the St Hilary transmitter outside Cardiff. We did an interview with the cheif transmitter engineer, got some pictures of the old equipment and then took the executive decision that we needed to see the 'big switch' thrown and the monitors go blank. Se we cued the engineer to switch it off. Several hours early. When we got back to base the switchboard had blown up with complaints! Bonus facts. The predecessor to HTV was TWW. the scene at 6:13 was from the studio that I spent my first years at; Pontcanna in Cardiff. Also the coming of stereo sound. We were the generation who trained up for its launch, we got a pay rise for the extra complexity.
@christopherhulse8385
11 ай бұрын
I had an old 405 line TV given to me as an 11 year old back in 1981 and it gave good pictures, BBC1 and ATV (Central after 1982) only but I never watched BBC2 anyway! It lasted until 405 closed down in January 1985 and I shed a tear that day.
@andrewbeer4715
11 ай бұрын
Thank you for covering 405 line television, one of my favourite topics. I'm currently restoring a 1937 HMV 900 and this is inspiring me to get on with it (it is a very big job!). Cheers
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
Careful of that mains-derived EHT!!! One touch and you are a gonner!!!
@bobdeverell
11 ай бұрын
During the 1950s, before BBC Divis (Northern Ireland) was opened in 1955 people the only signal possible in central Eire was to receive BBC TV from Northern England. A teenager (BATV fan) in 1960 I was surprised by the number of Band 1 aerials I saw on houses in Port Laoise, Abbeyleix and further south. Reception was usually not possible till after dark and the 3-element aerials were at roof level. I remember looking at several single channel 12" sets at a repair shop in Abbeyleix (1959) that had been recovered as people installed tall masts and switched to ground wave reception from Divis about +100 miles distant. I also vividly remember hearing NYC taxis breaking though on my uncle's 405 TV (41.5 mHz sound curtesy of the high MUF 1960 sun spot cycle).
@Eurobrasil550
11 ай бұрын
Interesting post, I remember visiting Ireland in the 80s and seeing many large Antennas on tall masts that appeared to be aligned for reception of British TV , and thinking how popular it must have been, considering the expense it must have incured to install the quite elaborate systems with large masts and antennas, Although I guess once installed there was no real future costs. I guess many still survive in situ today?
@IndigoDavei
11 ай бұрын
I remember it being so much easier to get a good 405-line picture than a 625 one, but that's mainly because coverage was so much better on VHF. Also, on-screen noise due to a weak signal tended to result more in lack of contrast rather than snow, so you could turn up the contrast to make it a bit more watchable. Obviously, 625 lines was better, as long as you had a good aerial in a reasonable reception area, but 405 wasn't at all bad, and it didn't really look a lot different on smaller screens. Of course, they did experiment with colour on 405 lines in the 1950s (using a version of NTSC adapted for positive modulation) - no idea what that looked like.
@ttrjw
11 ай бұрын
Sounds more of a UHF/VHF issue than the number of line. Ireland of course broadcasts 625 on VHF... (or it did until analogue switch-off).
@IndigoDavei
11 ай бұрын
@@ttrjw Yes, and an issue to do with the use of positive modulation rather than negative (regarding the different appearance of on-screen noise).
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
The early UHF tuners used short lived valves which often meant weak pictures lacking in contrast and often the 405 VHF pictures would be visibly clearer and sharper. Things improved once transistorised tuners were developed, but it was much easier to get good VHF reception than UHF.
@arthurdanielles4784
11 ай бұрын
The bulk of if not almost ALL tv sets manufactured and sold in the UK until the JAPANESE imports, were some of the worst electrical items that we Brits were subjected to. Unreliable, overheating and overbearing let alone as we would have said; over here... absolute and utter garbage. The first time I bought a JAPANESE tv set I realized there were those who were capable of making something that WORKED, WAS RELIABLE and worth every penny...
@longsighted
11 ай бұрын
The transmitter, PO and studio engineers all lamented that the studio picture leaving the 405 transmitters was far better than any of the domestic TV sets and that comment could be said about the domestic colour 635 line sets.
@michaelmcdonald2348
9 ай бұрын
I lamented the switch off of the analogue signal because the replacement SD digital service didn't come anywhere close when viewed on a good well adjusted receiver. And there's still fall off the cliff edge issue with weak signals or fringe reception while you always got something with PAL, even if it was fuzzy monochrome.
@BlunderB
3 ай бұрын
Great video thank you for making it! The info is very much appreciated to a ludite on this topic like myself.
@tenacious3911
9 ай бұрын
Something to bear in mind about 405 lines is that the surviving programmes from that era are not always indicative of the transmitted picture quality. Surviving programmes are usually telerecordings (kinescopes for our American friends) and these are often of considerably lesser quality than the original video feed, Telerecordings in which the line structure is visible are usually the result of the telerecording operators placing the camera too close to the monitor.
@martinhughes2549
4 ай бұрын
I've seena few examples of VT of 405 and it looks generally very good.
@kenjewell5619
11 ай бұрын
I remember the TV of my childhood having a 405 / 625 line switch.
@i-a-g-r-e-e-----f-----jo--b
11 ай бұрын
Very early television is so interesting, thank you! BTW, David McCallum the famous actor (who sadly just passed on, RIP) said in an interview that his father placed an order for a TV before WW2 started and it was delivered unexpectantly in 1945 at their door! I love the way earlier TV is different in each region. I was in London 10 years ago and learned that they have some TVs with coin boxes on them to watch them. I was watching a program about people on UK public assistance who would rig the coin box, lol.
@gadgetsgimmicksandtech
11 ай бұрын
Back in 1985 when 405 line transmissions ceased, I arranged with the IBA as it was then for a friend to have the redundant 625 to 405 line standards converter from the Mendelsham transmiiter in Suffolk. It was several 7ft equipment bays of electronics including a lot of diode matrix modules. An interesting day out. I can't remember now what happened to it in the end, but I still have a note from the IBA about it.
@LaNwamNi
11 ай бұрын
I was living in the Crystal Palace area during the time when 405 lines was transmitted from the BBC tower up there. As a result I remember well the RF interference that would come through audio equipment loud and clear (not good). Playing your electric guitar through an amp would ensure you were accompanied (quite loudly) by whatever was currently on BBC1. You could get some relief from this by wiring an RF choke into your guitar lead (but nothing completely remedied it). I remember a rehearsal room in Sydenham where they had tried to build a faraday cage around the room with chicken wire to minimise the effect this had on an entire band transmitting BBC1. I can also remember this problem affecting some hifi equipment (the cheaper stuff, I recall). And clearly remember Eddie Waring's voice blasting over the PA during an open air gig (Mahavishnu Orchestra, Yes & Lindisfarne) at Crystal Palace Bowl one Saturday afternoon. It was an absolute relief when this all came to halt on that fateful day in 1985 when 405 ceased. Good riddance!
@davidlally592
11 ай бұрын
Mm in Oct 2016 I was pleased to attend, in Ally Pally, celebrations re the 80th anniv of the 1st hd UK TV transmissions, from 1936 and of course then on 405. There, with a live b+w BBC 2 feed of a concert on HD, they had a computer converter. Turn the dial and one then had the feed reduced to 625 (with reduced res). Turn it again and now BBC2 was displayed on 405, which of course it never originally had! Then turn again and now simulated Baird appeared, with its flicker!! Wonderful..!!
@eoconnor9820
11 ай бұрын
You've got to love an AMTV documentary!
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@Eurobrasil550
11 ай бұрын
I noted last year, while visiting various areas of the UK there are quite a number of Band 1 and Band 3 VHF TV antennas still in situ, when you think although the 405 line system lasted as explained until early 1985, it was running simultaneously with the UHF system for several years, I can't think there can have been many VHF TV antennas installed after say the mid 1970s? This meaning those remaining antennas must have in situ around 50 year now, certainly a tribute to qualify and some excellent aerial riggers using quality gear!
@michaeldavison9761
11 ай бұрын
There was an amusing newspaper advert that appeared in 1964 with little explanation at first. All it said was the mathematical equation 'pi times 625 = 1964'. It was eventually revealed to be an advert for Pye televisions ready for BBC2's 625 line service if you use the usual approximation of pi as 22/7.
@sr6424
11 ай бұрын
One thing I remember growing up with a 405 line telly. It didn't work when the vacuum cleaner was being used. Don't know whether this would happened with a 625 line one! Our telly was 19inch. Remember when my friend got the first 26 inch screen colour telly in the area. You did need HD for such a large screen!
@nigelpearson6664
11 ай бұрын
From what I know 405 was better than VHS at displaying a test card typically type C. The image also was more solid . The lines were obvious if thinking about them. They seemed to disappear if the programme was interesting. I constructed an exact frequency single element aerial for London ITV. It received at 60 miles distance. I often used 405 as my preference due to the better program choice. Hannington that had the mystery alien interruption was 42 mikes away on 625 lines. It required an 18 element aerial for inferior reception. 405 was a practical system. The. Sony TV 9-90 was about £120 if I remember circa £1500 now. 100% reliable over 15 years. 625 often looked washed out in black and white. Perhaps 405 had better contrast. The Sony showed this.
@g7npl
11 ай бұрын
Who remembers the big H shaped TV antennas used for 405 TV''s.m
@trevordance5181
11 ай бұрын
Big H and X shaped aerials for VHF Band 1 channels and the smaller 'Toast Rack' shaped aerials for VHF Band 3. In strong reception areas a bit of damp string would work! In some areas where signals overlapped you could get an extra or maybe even two extra ITV stations from a neighbouring region which was very handy when the different ITV programme companies often had completely different schedules.
@ChrisMartin-b7l
11 ай бұрын
Looking back now the pictures look quite fuzzy, but at the time we didn't really see that, not did we miss colour - black and white tv was all we were used to and it was 'the best' as far as we kids were concerned. Of course, when colour came out it was magical. I remember seeing my first colour tv programme - Dad's Army - and being immediately amazed by the coloured titles. One thing I do remember about 405 lines is that my father made his own tv antenna (aerial) - it was an 'H', made out of bamboo canes and copper wire, and was inside the roofspace. When 625 lines came along everyone had to buy a new aerial - a metal thing shaped like a trumpet. Another thing I remember is that my grandparents had Rediffusion, which was a cabled radio and tv service - something I hear nothing about now.
@britishsuperbtelevision
11 ай бұрын
Wow! This is amazing! I really love analogue TV and B/W TV and all these fab documentaries are very interesting to me, Keep up the great work Adam!
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Thank you very much, I appreciate every kind word! ✨️
@avtransfersUK
11 ай бұрын
Nice video Adam. Rhodesia also had 405 line long before South Africa turned tv on in 1976. The original vhf transmitter (converted to pal )channels were still in use untill quite recently. Im not sure if this is still the case with digital migrations. 😊I transferred some films shot in the 60s of the studios in Harare. Very interesting
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
It was b/w 625 VHF, Rhodesia never had 405.
@local59_Studios
11 ай бұрын
Something i just realised: Colour tv has always existed we just havent had the right cameras until the 70s when it started
@stickytapenrust6869
11 ай бұрын
Or the right picture tubes and decoders in the TVs…
@OtherSide..
7 ай бұрын
I saw you on chris's channel just wanted to say hi🎉
@BG101UK
23 күн бұрын
Having been restoring 405-line and dual-standard receivers in recent years, I can attest to the very clear, vibrant pictures which can be enjoyed on such sets. Some of the most pleasing-to-the-eye pictures I've ever seen. But I guess I'm biased. - The dual standard sets from the late 1960s tend to provide a much better picture on 405/VHF, and I should get the distribution system up and running again, when health etc. improves.
@IrishvintageTVRadio
11 ай бұрын
A nice documentary. Thanks for uploading.
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
My pleasure!
@KarlKR_YT
11 ай бұрын
Yet another amazing documentary as always!
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Thank you so much pal!
@Paul-un5ps
11 ай бұрын
A very interesting video, thank you.
@owenmcgheeandbdawg
11 ай бұрын
This was really good to watch. TV history is fascinating. ✌️❤️🙂
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Really glad you enjoyed it! 😁
@warweezil2802
11 ай бұрын
Love that in the background near the end of the clip is the old ITN news theme. Happy memories of hearing that with the early evening ITN bulletin on my nans Sobell b&w set in the 60s
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
That came from an IBA Engineering Announcements edition at the end of 1984 marking the forthcoming end of 405 line TV.
@rogerdarthwell5393
11 ай бұрын
What an excellent job you have done Adam!
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Thank you Roger!
@rogerdarthwell5393
11 ай бұрын
@@AdamMartyn No worries!
@martinwoodworth3715
11 ай бұрын
I still remember it & colour tele appearing. Match of the day.. "for those of you with black & white sets, Leeds are in the yellow shirts" 😁
@johnhudghton3535
11 ай бұрын
I remember living near to Ringway ( Manchester ) Airport as a kid. Every time an aircraft flew over our house the 405 line single was affected and the picture went "wavy". Never had the same issue with 625 lines.
@PhilipMurphyExtra
11 ай бұрын
Really good TV history, Thanks Adam
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Much appreciated Philip! Thank you!
@stephenmatura1086
11 ай бұрын
It's surprising how the quality of TV programmes is inversely proportional to the quality of the technology by which to view them!
@ianhelps3749
2 ай бұрын
405 lines refers to the broadcast definition, but a typical TV of the day would probably only resolve 150-200 lines. Even with 625 line transmissions, you would be lucky to actually get 300 lines on your set. I remember watching 405 lines in the 1960s and it looked all right then. When we bought our first TV in 1971 ( instead of renting) it was UHF only.
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
It was 376 visible lines on screen, but the broadcasters didn’t employ equalising pulses to apply equal distance between the lines. As a result, the lines were often paired up, making the black gaps between lines more obvious…
@nigelpearson6664
11 ай бұрын
It's argued that the Sony KV1800 although PAL compatible was really a NTSC set. It had fabulous colour. If right it had a 90 degree defection tube. Delay line model KV 1810 was less impressive. Lucy an archive lady from the BBC told me NTSC recordings on big.reals were very high definition. Ruined when NTSC to PAL converted. She did the Doctor Who 405 line transfers. A beautiful lady with a technical mind and Saab convertible. I upgraded a Garrard 401 for her. She was a friend of the lady who wrote the Dr Who music. I have some 78 BBC programme records if the my boss kept them form Lucy. The Clitherow Kid recorded on Tottenham Court road was one. About 20 introductions per side looking like an LP. Lucy archived these things also. The 401 had two pick up arms. We had a group of new Sony 405 video recorders in boxes with monitors for Lucy. Some idiot threw them away! I think that they were 1964 imported by Debenhams.
@EastAngliaUK
11 ай бұрын
405 is before my time but I remember the old UHF well and even have some videos of the old signal before digital
@goodiesguy
11 ай бұрын
2:35 a very young Petula Clark.
@phaasch
Ай бұрын
It seems incredible now, that Alan Blumlein and his brilliant team at EMI saw 405 lines as a "stopgap", until something better could be developed!
@longsighted
11 ай бұрын
Experimental colour transmissions were made by the ITA on 405 line from the Croydon transmitter circ.1964
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
The BBC were doing experimental colour transmissions from Crystal Palace as early as 1956…
@stephenhall6595
11 ай бұрын
I recall the London area in the 405 Line era only need one transmitter to cover the whole region with the coming of 625 a lot of relay stations had to built as the UHF transmitter did cover the whole region with a strong signal. Likewise in the Midlands during the 405 line days there where three transmitters to cover the region with the coming of 625 many relays had to be built plus two further main transmitters.
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
London had two for 405 - BBC from Crystal Palace and ITV from Beulah Hill in Croydon.
@stephenhall6595
2 ай бұрын
Forgot that BBC 1 Channel 1 Crystal Palace and ITV Channel 9 Croydon.
@johng5474
11 ай бұрын
I remember, as a child, our very modern large screen TV that had a lever (think old railway signal), that would swith it from the VHF 405 lines to UHF 625. It was a dramatic change, especially when viewing the Olympics that were being broadcast by satellite, which virtually impossible on 405.
@James_Knott
5 ай бұрын
I would consider that 240 line Baird system to be almost unwatchable. In North America, the 525 line NTSC standard was set in 1941, but 441 lines had been commonly used before then. After WW2, there were some changes such as FM audio instead of AM and also rearrangement of some of the channels. Other than that, the system remained the same, even with the introduction of colour. The NTSC colour system was fully compatible with B&W. In Canada, those living close to the U.S. border could receive American TV and TV broadcasts here started in 1952. Colour arrived in time for Canada's centennial in 1967.
@shackwishprice6924
11 ай бұрын
Use to love looking around on vhf 405 years ago watching regional services as some times different programs would be showed to your local service
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
I could receive 2 ITV regions at the time (and would probably have been able to get a third with the right aerial) and it was great having an alternative programme (or sometimes one you missed in it's regular timeslot in your own region). Ironically now it's easy to get any ITV region via satellite TV, but the only variations now are local news opt-outs and adverts.
@BlueDeepSeas
8 ай бұрын
not forgetting the 405 line whistle
@mjamesthomasb
11 ай бұрын
I think you have over estimated the Baird mechanical timebase it was only ever 30 line, he did develop a electrical timebase system but it was never taken up by the BBC and they chose EMI's
@nigelpearson6664
11 ай бұрын
I had a Sony TV9-90 dual standard TV. Often used as props in TV dramas. London ITV was possible in Oxford. 405 was my main choice due to content. Picture quality was very good. The lines were fascinating. I understand 405 was a disguise for secret radar production. BBC were obliged to do it Alan Blumlein beintg a key name. 405 colour was a BBC invention circa 1960 in NTSC. RCA adopted some of the BBC improvements. BBC were told to adopt PAL. Apparently 405 with spot modulation was good up to 18 inches. A typical size then.
@steeviebops
11 ай бұрын
I still have one of those now. I've generated some 405 signals just to see how it would have looked.
@telocho
11 ай бұрын
Philips experimented shortly with NTSC on 625 lines, but that got dropped too for PAL. PAL had royalties to be paid to Telefunken and buying the necessary delay line from them, and NTSC was royalty free by then.
@alexanderwhite8320
11 ай бұрын
So the 625-line system was the Ultra-HD of it's age. I wonder how 4K video will be compared to 256K video by our grandchildren.
@FamtechVideos
11 ай бұрын
Nice documentary.
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@Charonupthekuiper
11 ай бұрын
405 line tv signals had a much longer reach. I remember my dad struggling to get a decent picture on our temperamental set only to discover it was in Welsh!
@edwardnowill4408
11 ай бұрын
1.54.........Baird system.I think the date here was 1937 not 1957.
@James_Knott
5 ай бұрын
I heard that too, but on replay I heard 1937. Another thing, I often though he was saying 65, when he was actually saying 625.
@2002toyotacivic
11 ай бұрын
Pleaseeee do SED TVs next
@WhatALoadOfTosca
11 ай бұрын
8:06 Pronounced Televish-Airon. UTV is also a Northern Irish station, not an Irish station.
@macdaniel6029
11 ай бұрын
HD is just a buzzword. I got a mint condition color TV set from 1979 a few months ago and abandoned my 42" 1080p TV for it. I use HDMI to RCA and RCA to RF converters to feed it and the quality is amazing. Vibrant colors, no noise, just a nice sharp picture.
@majortwit
11 ай бұрын
Never underestimate the power of David Sarnoff’s RCA (30 Rock used to be the RCA headquarters.) He tended to squat on new technologies like TV Color and resolution, and FM radio until the corp had everything ready and the affiliates wouldn’t be harmed and bail on him. That way the more nimble wouldn’t take market share.
@rambo1152
3 ай бұрын
Did I hear "The Baird 240 line system was closed down in January 1957?" Methinks it was twenty years earlier.! Also why are references to 240 lines accompanied with visuals of Baird's earlier 30 line efforts? In actual fact 240 line non-interlaced pictures achieved a definition comparable to 405 line interlaced pictures
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
It was 20 years earlier.
@markholgate5754
11 ай бұрын
Did the introduction of 625 in 1964 also herald a move from most televisions sold in the uk containing 17inch tubes to containing 19inch tubes?
@HughTVDX
11 ай бұрын
19 inch CRT's were coming in from about 1962, just before 625 started in the UK.
@kazsha1201
11 ай бұрын
HI ADAM PLEASE COULD YOU DO THE HISTORY OF REDIFFUSION TV COMPANY
@davidstone921
11 ай бұрын
I worked for them in the '60:s.
@steve83803
11 ай бұрын
Me too, from 1976-1982 still remember the cable carrier vision frequencies of 5.9 and 8.9 MHz.
@hayleywaalen2612
11 ай бұрын
TV History huh? Cool!
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Hope you enjoyed! Give it a like and a share if you did!
@hayleywaalen2612
11 ай бұрын
@@AdamMartyn Yeah.
@WhatALoadOfTosca
11 ай бұрын
2:58 What's up with the "Not for broadcast" message?
@telocho
11 ай бұрын
It’s an internal 16mm corporate film intended for affiliates and CBS employees, not for broadcast.
@ceebee23
11 ай бұрын
In many ways a pity that 405 line did not move to colour in the 50s. ITV wanted it seems the Beeb didn't. All that brilliant 50s and 60s programming, albeit in 405 line, that could have been in colour ..oh well...
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
At least some 60's material was produced on colour film. At that time it was a way to generate income from sales to the USA. It now means we can see these programmes not only in colour, but often in high definition.
@ceebee23
11 ай бұрын
@@michaelmcdonald2348 oh yes ... inc. The Avengers.... I know the BBC producer of "Forsyte Saga" wanted to do it in colour but could not wait due to scheduling issues for the cast .... such a tragedy! At least it is in 625 line I believe?
@stickytapenrust6869
2 ай бұрын
Some ITV stations - like ABC and ATV - wanted it as it would mean extra income after the costs of colour kit were paid off. Others - like Granada TV - didn’t, because of the costs of buying colour kit in the first place.
@b.p4958
11 ай бұрын
8:22 wrong flag to show Hong Kong if you’re talking about British Hong Kong and not communist Hong Kong
@Sacto1654
11 ай бұрын
I'm actually surprised that the 405-line monochrome standard lasted so long. The BBC and ITV should have dropped them in favor of the Telefunken-developed PAL by 1970, no linger on till 1985.
@HughTVDX
11 ай бұрын
625 TV on BBC started in 1964,Pal Colour in 1967 and on all 3 networks by 1969,405 was just a duplication after that. Relatively few people used it by the mid 70's
@martinhughes2549
11 ай бұрын
All programming for peak time on all three UK networks was made in 625 PAL colour from the end of 1969, excepting the ITV Colour strike of 1970/71. The 625 PAL luminance signal was converted to a 405 signal for the 405 line VHF transmitter network. SImultaneously the 625 PAL colour signal was broadcast on a newer UHF transmitter. TWO Versions of the same programme a 405 line monochrome conversion AND the original 625 PAL colour signal broadcast on UHF. This was done for 16 years. In Januaryv1985 the converters where turned off and decommissioned along with the VHF transmitters. The 625 PAL version carried on being broadcast and I used to watch a portable monochrome 625 UHF TV at the time. ( as well as colour). I remember using a dual standard 405/625 VHF/UHF TV and switching between 405/625 and UHF/VHF, watching the same programme. Both versions looked the same, although the 625 looked a bit sharper. The problem was it took time for UHF coverage to match VHF coverage. When BBC1 and ITV went Colour on the 15/11/69, about 40% of viewers had UHF coverage, that increased to 50% by the end of 1969. By the end of 1970 it has crept up to 70%. By March 1974 it had gone up to 94%. Colour TV ownership increase slowly, 0.6% in 1969, 1.6% by the end of 1970, 4% by the end of 1971, 10% by 1972, 19% by 1973 , 30% by end of 1974. By 1977 it had gone above 50%. By 1985 UHF coverage had reached 99.6% and Colour TV ownership was about 84%. The UK adopted PAL in March 1966. Mated to system I, broadcast on UHF from April 1964.
@michaelmcdonald2348
11 ай бұрын
the issue would have been elderly people who had no desire to upgrade something that was still doing what they wanted it to, and those on lower incomes who would have made up a large majority of those still using 405. add to that the coverage in some regions where UHF reception was patchy or impossible. in some ways similar to the digital switchover, which turned out to be easier to implement due to flat screen technology meaning people would be quick to upgrade of their own accord, and the availability of cheap set top boxes that would work on existing receivers. in contrast, digital radio seems to have gone in a different direction. at one time heavily promoted as the future, now barely mentioned with FM radio still the most common way of receiving off the air.
@HughTVDX
11 ай бұрын
@@michaelmcdonald2348 405 only sets would have been very long in the tooth by the time the service closed in early 1985 and the cost of keeping a 405 only set running with the inevitable service calls would have been high. Second hand 405 625 sets were widely available from the late 60's and cheap,especially during the colour TV sales boom in 1972-3 as a result of trade-ins. I was involved in the trade then and from 1975 it was very rare to see anyone using 405 on a main TV set, the odd bedroom set with rabbit ears antenna maybe. In 1984 the IBA put a crawling message on Ch9 London saying that the service was due to close soon, contact them. I believe 30 or 40 people did at most.
@johnclarke2997
11 ай бұрын
When I visited some of the 405 line VHF sites used by the BBC during the early 1990's, by that stage the transmitters had long since been removed. But there was still signs of the equipment position, cooling and associated kit and the engineers who worked on the stuff would say the VHF transmitter was located here. It would seem many of those engineers were happy to see the back of the old 1950s equipment as it was becoming more and mroe unreliable and troubelsome to fix.
@rastathebanana
4 ай бұрын
0:10 Max Headroom: What the hell are you supposed to be?
@gordonlamont3767
11 ай бұрын
Baird's system used in the test was the intermediate film process so had a much higher definition than the examples you show. It was still poor in comparison with EMI however.
@kurtvanderbogarde8402
2 ай бұрын
Why no actual 405 line material in this video? It seems to be only represented on here by kinescope/Telerecording film footage. ITV has HEAPS of surviving 405 footage (the entire first season of Please Sir for example) and even the BBC has a few surviving specimens (episodes of Compact and The Newcomers). At the very least, you could have used some VidFIRED footage. Anything more representative than knacky old film copies.
@kurtvanderbogarde8402
2 ай бұрын
9:12 This material was filmed across the Atlantic in the 1930s taking advantage of freak solar conditions. No wonder it looks wonky. A properly tuned set back home in the UK would show a far better image with fluid video motion, even in the 1930s.
@troygoodacre2718
11 ай бұрын
I miss seeing all the H. andX Ariel’s
@davidrumming4734
11 ай бұрын
In real terms what 405 looked like, depended on signal strength at your location. I understand this part of Wiltshire England had weak service even with large aerials and image quality was fuzzy for most people. Obviously the same can be said also of analog 625….tho the high number of transmitting masts (main & relay) means, after considerable rollout time, this was less the case. In old photographs old VHF double 8 type aerials can be seen on many houses in the 405 era.
@yonkieponkie
11 ай бұрын
a lot of what you are showing as 405 line TV is actually telecine, which is always of lower definition
@sundog486
11 ай бұрын
I think you are confusing telecine (film to tv) with telerecording (tv to film). Telecine transfers were often higher resolution than TV camera images.
@BsktImp
11 ай бұрын
01:49 1957 rather than 1937? Are you sure?
@Wenlocktvdx
11 ай бұрын
Whoops! He meant ‘37, but didn’t the Baird 240 line system only last a short time? So 1935 surely
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Definitely meant '37! Apologies for the error!
@BsktImp
11 ай бұрын
@@AdamMartyn No apology needed! Just thought I was having a 'Mandela effect' moment.
@EdgyNumber1
11 ай бұрын
Adam, will you be covering NICAM?
@steve83803
11 ай бұрын
Haven’t googled it first but was it Near Instantaneous Complex Analogue Multiplex, PAL was enough to crumble my brain with colour subcarrier, Burst and R-Y and B-Y 😀
@Rob-uv8bu
11 ай бұрын
Amazing . Thank you. Amazing how state broadcaster kept load of Crap in 60s . But junked stuff like Dr who . Z cars
@stickytapenrust6869
11 ай бұрын
Because cultural values were different at the time. Doctor Who, Z Cars, TOTP etc were seen as disposable and the public didn’t want to see them again. Wasn’t just state TV, ITV also did it, though to what extent differed between the companies that held the regional ITV franchises.
@glennso47
11 ай бұрын
For high definition, I put my tv on top of a dictionary.
@michaeldavison9761
4 ай бұрын
Slip of the tongue at 1'52" perhaps. Did you actually say 1957 meaning to say 1937?
@CableWrestler
11 ай бұрын
Aitch Not haytch, my dear ❤
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Tomayto tomato 😊 I've had people tell me both versions are 'correct' 😂
@martinhughes2549
11 ай бұрын
There's a fun Mitchell and Webb sketch on this topic
@Test-hw5fn
11 ай бұрын
In 87 years time today's TV definition standards will seem quaint.
@nathanpollard1223
10 ай бұрын
I don't know about that...
@eswnl1
10 ай бұрын
What a hassle for everyone having to change their VHF aerials to the "toast rack" UHF aerial.
@harryelliott4310
11 ай бұрын
Tv
@digitalmetadata1
11 ай бұрын
Why does 405 line quality seem laughable? It met an untimely end? This is not true!!! If you were to actually witness 405 as broadcast from Crystal Palace, you would have found the pictures were very sharp and detailed. The excellent resolution of UK 405 was governed by what is called the Kell Factor (ratio between vertical and horizontal resolution). The Kell Factor governed setting the horizontal resolution based up the vertical resolution (number of lines taking into account loss in the spaces between the lines. The Kell Factor for 525, 625 and other systems was was set between 0.6 and 0.7. The UK 405 system Kell Factor was set to unity (1.0) which means that 405 and 625 horizontal resolution is essentially the same! At the introduction of 625 to the UK in 1964, viewers would not see any appreciable difference unless you got closer to your TV to observe the slightly coarser raster lines. Therefore your conclusion that 405 resolution was laughable is totally unjust.. The BBC began experimenting with 405 NTSC colour in the mid 1950's and by the early 1960's, the UK may have gone that route since the pictures were excellent. The CBS field sequential standard (405 line 144 fields per second) was chosen to try and fit color through a US 6MHz channel. The Kell Factor of CBS 405 was about 0.5 which made the pictures very soft and low resolution. What killed 405 line TV, identified as CCIR System A, was mainly politics. There were separate technical considerations as System A used AM sound, it used positive modulation instead of negative modulation which made Automatic Gain Control awkward in TV sets. However the main factor killing 405 was that it was out of step with international standardization consolidation. That is countries standards 441, 819 (France) and 405 (UK ) had to eventually fall in line with the movement towards 625 led by post war Germany. This was a economic-political move as the the post war development use of 625 from 1952 in Germany was to be able to use immediately American broadcast equipment for Europe! This stemmed from the design need for efficient tuned horizontal scanning used in Cameras and TV Monitors. In the US for 525 line 60 Hz field rate resulted in a 15,750 Hz scanning rate. The same nominal scanning rate was required to reduce cost for Europe 50Hz field rate deployment. The design considerations for European 50 Hz field rate is as follows. A 50Hz field rate at 15750 Hz will yield 730 lines. The nearest odd number multiple of low integer values for then sync generation was 625, hence the decision to use 625! Ultimately the 625 line rate became 15,625 Hz which is only a 0.8% difference from 15,750 Hz used in the US. The vertical scan rate design was simpler and required on minor resistor changes to achieve 50Hz from the original 60Hz design. So 405 line UK and 819 line France died as a victim of political expediency not technical lack of merit. Even you closely examine the later emergence of DTV and it's evolution, a similar political back and forth occurred between ATSC and DVB. Lastly thankyou for featuring a portion of my 405 Closedown clip I posted on KZitem in 2007! The prewar TV was my 1938 Baird T-18 at Lime Grove where I used to work. \
@telocho
11 ай бұрын
On larger screens they would use spot wobble to hide the raster.
@bobdeverell
11 ай бұрын
Agree. Many falsely think 525 and 625 automatically offered a better resolution than 405 lines. This was not the case for 525 and 625 systems which carried colour. A properly adjusted 405 bw TV receiver would display 3.2 Mhz resolution, ie an equal or better resolution than many standard 525 or 625 colour sets which, in the days before comb filters, were often band limited to avoid colour subcarrier interference. Commercial VHS/VCR recorders could not match this performance. We should not confuse resolution with raster. As you correctly point out visible raster lines on larger 405 sets, despite spot wobble, became an issue as analogue sets became larger.
@collegeman1988
11 ай бұрын
Haych D?
@GerryMcGarry
11 ай бұрын
405 lasted for 48 years 2 months, 625 lasted for 48 years 6 months. Digital terrestrial has been going for 26 years 9 months so far. How long will it last?
@sundog486
11 ай бұрын
Not more that 10 years from now, the mobile companies want those frequencies.
@yonkieponkie
11 ай бұрын
at 1:53 you say 1957 when it should be 1937 :)
@AdamMartyn
11 ай бұрын
Definitely meant '37! Sorry for the error!
@EuroScot2023
11 ай бұрын
An interesting review but I feel your samples give a poor representation of the quality of 405 line transmissions and don't give any examples of Baird's higher definition system at all; though sourcing any of those is virtually impossible now. Your 405 line examples are all film telerecordings and, as such, very poor by comparison with what a viewer with a well maintained 405 line receiver would have seen. 405 lines worked well on sets up to 19" at appropriate viewing distances and the horizontal resolution was effectively the same as 625 lines gave, Think of it as roughly the same as a 480p display here on a KZitem channel - no colour of course.
@HughTVDX
11 ай бұрын
You can see examples of 405 TV sets running with real video on youtube. I have several used with a 625 to 405 converter.
@scotttait2197
11 ай бұрын
1:51 1957 .... eh think thats wrong
@funuleinuk
11 ай бұрын
Colour TV could've started earlier if they made NTSC 405 lines.
@nigelpearson6664
11 ай бұрын
My TV 9-90 had better contrast in 405. The examples shown here are not typical of the best. The Sony was all transistor which helped longevity. TV110 the cheaper 625 line set to me was inferior. The circa 10 kHz 405 line buzz was annoying. 16 kHz of 625 less so.p
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