After Unleashed and Generations, that's when the boost formula started to fall off. Those 2 games were PEAK with the boost formula, especially the Rush series. But it does take a lot of development time, and it's good that they are finally moving into the new Open Zone formula. All they need to do is keep listening to feedback and incorporate proper changes to it.
@mohabalserafe3795
Жыл бұрын
@Banjo n' Ka'shootie For the ps4 Sega really needs to consider hiring New people to work on the next open zone project or other wise we will have to wait another five years or so for the game to be finished
@sethisevilone02
Жыл бұрын
@@mohabalserafe3795 they are currently hireing more ppl to work on the next main game
@marcusmayo
Жыл бұрын
@@sethisevilone02 Well, hopefully they know what they are doing.
@Darksyd2
Жыл бұрын
Same here I stopped liking the boost system after generations I feel like they should go back to the spin dash momentum formula in the next game and turn the boost formula into a racing game or something
@aarushgupta465
10 ай бұрын
I personally think that the Boost Formula works for linear obstacle course style levels while momentum translates better for geometric 2D levels and open zones that encourage traversal, exploration, and navigation.
@TheeOneTheeOnli
Жыл бұрын
17:07 I think sonic frontiers should AT LEAST be a 1/3 just because of 1-2
@sometf2player752
Жыл бұрын
the magnet dash is now called the homing dash according to sonic team since they mentioned it directly (and also showed off how to do it) in a speed strats video
@Tam3603
Жыл бұрын
I’m glad Sonic Team is sticking to the Open-Zone formula and improving on it so it’s not like they do random stuff and see what works and what doesn’t
@Tam3603
Жыл бұрын
@Banjo n' Ka'shootie For the ps4 They’ve said it multiple times that this is gonna be the direction of the series going forward
@Ibalistic_hedge
Жыл бұрын
@banjonkashootiefortheps4403 yes we do, lizuka and kitiemoto have confirmed a 1000 times
@75JUNAKI
Жыл бұрын
0:10 I think Sonic Team wanted to branch out to wider audiance or something with Heroes, they could’ve revisited the gameplay style afterward’s (key word: could’ve). I don’t remember.
@BigKillaJoke
Жыл бұрын
@@Tam3603 Saying something and actually accomplishing something are two *veeeeeeery* diffrent things. I mean this is part of why it got to this point in the first place. They tone things down, change things up or throw in gimmicks on something that started off great and then goes horribly off the rails. The boost formula was great and had potential... And what do they do? Sonic colors introduces the wisps. It's cute, and the gimmicks don't entirely dominate the game but it starts to skew a little. Then we get lost world and it went into a who the fuck knows direction. Sonic games have a history of having something that has potential and then veering off in another direction entirely. Even when they do try to keep an idea they introduce things that generally detract or sidetrack from it. We don't know how or in what way they will take certian pieces of feedback. I mean hell here's a thought... "The major downturn in sonic frontiers was the cyberspace levels." which then leads to "okay let's axe it completely and step away from boost... Completely."
@Tam3603
Жыл бұрын
@@BigKillaJoke Yeah but with how confident Sonic Team is with Sonic right now, I highly doubt they’ll drop the formula
@heroicgangster9981
Жыл бұрын
Yeah what makes boost formula engaging to me especially in Unleashed is how people are able to react and dodge to upcoming obstacles. And it is a reason why I don't like it when people say the boost formula has to get rid of 2D entirely. People forget that in Unleashed especially with the 2.5D camera angles that there is a sense of satisfaction of Sonic going through 2D sections because those sections especially in Unleashed actually felt like obstacle courses with how Sonic rail grinds, flips, and carefully jumps throughout the whole section.
@sboinkthelegday3892
Жыл бұрын
Doesn't require 3D, doesn't even require being rendered. That's the same gameplay as a million Tiger digital games ripping off Missile Command, the same gameplay as BONUS games in Lion King for the SNES catching bugs. Bonus game in SONIC in his second outing. That's why The End fight makes so much sense.
@amandaslough125
Жыл бұрын
Yea, but Unleashed actually had the parkour esque mobility moves like the drift and slide, that warranted having those intense obstacle courses. Later on, especially with the wisps, they lost the momentum with too many things that just stop you in place.
@sketchsskotch1073
Жыл бұрын
For me, boost just doesn't work in 2D without a 2.5D aimed forward camera angle because it doesn't allow the player to see what's up ahead quick enough.
@donian544
Жыл бұрын
I don't think 2d being in the boost stages is the problem the problem is the imbalance of 3d and 2d the boost stages in unleashed and generations had a great balance of 3d and 2d. Colors and forces on the other hand.
@floofycupkim1197
Жыл бұрын
Unleashed is a well baked cake. Meanwhile forces is basically a sad pathetic cake thats burnt... yet frosted to look good
@willbrgamer5137
Жыл бұрын
Sonic franchise has always been suffering from "first game syndrome". Explation: If there's anything I could conclude by looking at the history of the sonic franchise, it's that the biggest problem with sega and sonic team is that they always try to change the gameplay formula from game to game, there's always some kind of gimick, and when the gimick doesn't work instead of executing it better, they judge that the concept itself is flawed, the highest points of the franchise are when it tries instead to change the gameplay from game to game, it tries to improve the same formula in the next game, sonic 2 is one of the most acclaimed games in the franchise for being the improvement of an already established formula, sonic generations is acclaimed for being the improvement of an already established formula, if there is a problem with the franchise it is that games always suffer from "first game" syndrome".
@Banana807
Жыл бұрын
Tbh i dont really mind the sonic games changing gameplay style as long as its still in the sonic esque formula, one of the main reasons for an example mario oddysey got so much love is bc nintendo tried to do something new with mario, instead of just doing the same thing they been doing with 3D mario, the whole gameplay thing can be a double edged sword, but it keeps things fresh
@rodrigoreismarinho9552
Жыл бұрын
@@Banana807 but every 3D Mario game is different, don't know what you are talking about
@amari648
Жыл бұрын
The boost formula was a breath of fresh air from the adventure formula until forces made it “boost to win”. But I will agree Adventure formula is better for exploring Sonic’s world. And you use the boost in different ways in cyberspace to navigate through the levels easier and get S ranks.
@alonsomoyano9278
Жыл бұрын
Even though the Boost got really nerfed in Cyberspace, I agree with what you said
@mr.mcklockwork3828
Жыл бұрын
Forces?? You mean colors?
@amari648
Жыл бұрын
@@mr.mcklockwork3828 forces is not better better than colors boost so your already wrong. And plus you had to do a good bit of platforming in between the boost and if you tried to do it on stages like planet wisp, you die. Forces levels are literally just straight aways where you can hold the boost for majority of the level and the platforming is mid cause it’s not hard for one and Sonic’s jumps sucks in that game. Then they have boost capsules every where so that you your boost meter doesn’t run out and the levels are too short and some are kinda boring.
@kinggalactix
Жыл бұрын
Unleashed is definitely the best use of Boost. Sure, the drift is a bit weird, but all three criteria are checked to a T. Edit: Unleashed drift is better. No cap.
@andarilho_31
Жыл бұрын
I think Generations perfected the boost formula since it combines the design philosophies of both Unleashed (reflex focused level design) and Colors (platform/exploration focused) and creates a great 3D platformer.
@kinggalactix
Жыл бұрын
@@andarilho_31 only issue is the ranking system... it's boring.
@kinggalactix
Жыл бұрын
@@andarilho_31 but otherwise, I agree.
@Terminal_Apotos
Жыл бұрын
@@andarilho_31 I’d say it overuses Slower Paced 2D Platforming which the Controls don’t mesh with as well as those in Colors
@dev5655
Жыл бұрын
I totally agree with you but, I never understood why people hated the drift so much in Unleashed. It's the one mechanic that I wish they would bring back mainly because it felt like a Platformers version of a parry system. Once you learn the timing, it felt like and personally still feels like the best mechanic in the game. Hell I'll take it over whatever God forsaken bastardization they put in Sonic Frontiers. I actually feel like a lot of the cornering issues in Frontiers with benefit from having the drift ( or just you know maxing out the settings like you can for the open Zone instead of setting everything to neutral)
@manfredicadelo9604
Жыл бұрын
I've been playing Sonic Colors DS recently, and I have to say: the boost in 2D is awesome in that game, the level design is different than the one in Sonic Rush, which was already a great game, but I'm having a lot of fun memorizing the levels. I'm loving it! EXCEPT FOR THE WATER THEMES. WHY DOES THE MUSIC HAVE THE SONIC CHRONICLES FILTER WHEN UNDERWATER? I HATE IT
@dez-m
Жыл бұрын
I love Sonic Colors DS!
@kahboom76
Жыл бұрын
Colors DS is one of my favorite Sonic games and it’s sad that it gets overlooked
@Unity116
Жыл бұрын
What I like about unleashed is that it is treated almost like a racing game with the way the levels are designed, it feels like the whole point is to know the area and how to get around it to go as fast and precise as possible
@KennKuun
Жыл бұрын
Another thing they need to bring back is the scoring system from Sonic Adventure 2. It was hands down the best ranking system in the series, and I cannot fathom why they dropped it. It complemented the level design by awarding score for succeeding at small skill-based maneuvers scattered throughout the level like timing a jump off trick ramps, chaining homing attacks and other actions, quickly defeating the hidden golden GUN Beetle, and jumping through rainbow rings (added in Sonic Heroes). It also rewarded you for performing well during level-specific spectacle set pieces like reaching the top of the rocket in Metal Harbor. It gave the stages so much identity and replay value, learning the hidden ways to get additional points in each stage to get the highest rank.
@hedgehog_buddy
Жыл бұрын
I hate adventure 2's ranking system i never get a s rank
@dracomalfoy6886
8 ай бұрын
@@hedgehog_buddy the max rank was A at that time...
@conradojavier7547
Жыл бұрын
Frontier's Gameplay is like a Return to the Adventure Style formula, while the Cyberspace Levels is an Afterthought.
@kaosagamerreal
Жыл бұрын
even though it's technically not an afterthought and has always been there
@Litchy51
Жыл бұрын
With what you said about 1-2, that’s why I like challenging myself with my own self-imposed S Ranks. Sky Rail takes 2:25 mins to S Rank but I’ve discovered 2 back to back rail shortcuts which in an optimal run, let me get ~1:14. I agree with you that the S Ranks should be harder.
@luigi3276
Жыл бұрын
I actually really like cyberspace. It’s treated like a special stage and it supplements the open world well. Im fine with it focusing on platforming more as you can use your boost and the magnet dash to your advantage, and I think it’s better than colors. It’s not perfect, but it serves and purpose and is fairly fun.
@xdan-
Жыл бұрын
That's not what's being discussed here. He's discussing how well it uses the boost formula.
@kaosagamerreal
Жыл бұрын
@@xdan- yes and the person is giving their thoughts on why they think the opposite
@xdan-
Жыл бұрын
@@kaosagamerreal No, he's discussing how good the stages are on their own, independently of the boost formula.
@playbossthebest936
Жыл бұрын
"sonic CD is peak fiction" So true
@Snackpigeon
Жыл бұрын
i was a bit concerned when i saw you upload this cause the boost is my favourite formula, but honestly, everything you said here is correct. doesnt matter what people think if frontiers is better than unleashed, matter of fact is that its unfaithful to the original boost i miss unleashed boost :(
@MSCLeap75
Жыл бұрын
I really like that in Unleashed there are sections of the boosting levels that consist of falling debris that challenges your ability to maintain enough speed to make it thru it all unscathed and is only made easier to do if you have enough rings that increased your speed. This game had the most depth in Sonic's speed upgrades.
@seematahir5970
Жыл бұрын
There is ONE thing that I think Sonic Rush does way better than Unleashed, and that is meter management. In Rush, you are not handed the boost. You have to put legitimate effort into getting boost meter and there are ways to maximize the amount you have through clever use of it. There are even obstacles specifically designed to make new players waste their boost. It adds a cool layer of depth to the gameplay. Unleashed HANDS you the boost completely. There is no skill to managing it. Just boost through the boosting sections and don't boost through the platforming sections. Your meter will pretty much always be full. This means Unleashed and all the other 3D boost titles don't have the same depth that Rush does, so they feel more simplified and automated. To be clear, I still think games like Unleashed and Generations are awesome, and they don't need meter management to be great, but I do wish they had the same amount of depth that Rush has.
@dez-m
Жыл бұрын
This is very insightful! I hope to see a more modest and challenging gage return
@lpfan4491
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, that's another point in favor of Unwiished for me. In that game, sure, you are still handed the boost for free, but the thing is that you are rarely given enough boost to keep boosting for the entire way and one will have to manage where to best use it. Actually, Unleashed is especially rediculous with lack of boost-management because one can actually level up the boost meter despite it already being a bit too long. With max level, one will literally never run out, even boosting for the entire stage.
@BlueBlur2003
Жыл бұрын
While I love the boost formula when done right I would much rather have the Adventure formula with momentum physics
@BananaReidy
Жыл бұрын
Agreed
@Thaumiel98
Жыл бұрын
Yeah same.
@yurieshicatay6309
Жыл бұрын
same
@bryanc7094
Жыл бұрын
Yeah
@joel9104
Жыл бұрын
Loving the mix of background footage and facecam, it adds effect to things you say when you use the facecam, loving the experimentation keep trying cool stuff!
@DarkAronest
Жыл бұрын
Till this day I still can't understand why you don't like Sonic Heroes but everything asside we can all agree that the boost formula is heavily Overused
@LondonTransport466
Жыл бұрын
In a weird way, I kinda like how inconsistent 3D Sonic is. It gives each game more of an identity.
@UnoTheSmartGuy
Жыл бұрын
The boost is very fun
@marcusmayo
Жыл бұрын
@@UnoTheSmartGuy Yes, it is.
@kn6361
Жыл бұрын
They should just do a whole game that's boost sonic, no gimmick like werehog, wisps, classic, or 2D in general. And make it a side game not the mainline. Have like 30-40 levels full of everything you described.
@randomsleepyboi2821
Жыл бұрын
See we want that however the problem is that the boost formula is actually really difficult to make and design since if u don’t care about getting an S rank it’s like around an hour or maybe a little bit more. Developers can spend hours for a small part of a level only for us to blitz through and they only have two paths, short levels or long levels which both can not work alone which is why they have a second gameplay style like werehog, wisps, 2d and open world.
@kn6361
Жыл бұрын
@RandomSleepyBoi I think with today's technology it could be done easier, and now they've got more experience. Also I believe I saw that Sega increased the size of Sonic Team so there would be more staff working at it
@amandaslough125
Жыл бұрын
@@kn6361 No. The new tech just means even more work since it needs to be bigger in HD. Sonic has always been difficult to make because he runs so fast. A small Sonic stage is bigger than typical Mario/etc stages. The multiple characters in the early games was already a way to pad out the game. Then with the boost formula, Sonic moves even faster. So they put in the side scrolling sections because they're quick and easy to make (you notice how blocky they always are?). The fact they don't need to put in extra friends only means Sonic's in game animations get more transitions and such in them. The only way they'd be able to make such bigger games is if they could stick with the same engine and other internal hardware for long enough to make one.
@randomsleepyboi2821
Жыл бұрын
@@kn6361 hm I guess but still would be difficult and considering sonics budget now a day I don’t think that’s happening any time soon
@SilverSpireZ
Жыл бұрын
Even though I adored Frontiers, I still would’ve preferred an Adventure-style game. Though at this point, I don’t expect them to go back anytime soon. The boost games have always been flawed gameplay-wise, even in the best games with its style, since it never quite feels like you have full control over Sonic. He controls closer to a race car more than anything else, which isn’t bad, but It’s inherently not as satisfying IMO, which is why I’ll always prefer playing the likes of the Adventure games, 3K and Mania over Rush, Unleashed or Generations, despite still enjoying those games a lot. Frontiers open-zone comes the closest to replicating this feeling with the boost formula for me, but there’s still some jank that needs to be worked out with the stiff jump, collision detection, stopping on a dime, and overall lack of momentum on the ground. Hopefully, with Frontiers 2, the team can work these quirks out so we can have the perfect middle ground between Adventure and boost. (Side note, that wallpaper is the most accurate I’ve ever seen, Matt.)
@sometf2player752
Жыл бұрын
didnt lizuka say that he wanted to make another sonic adventure game using frontiers as a base also frontiers seems like a odd combination between the adventure formula and the boost formula
@logozbysamil
Жыл бұрын
Ya, Sonic fits more in a playstyle that gives u freedom over him.
@JayGotGameBruhXL
Жыл бұрын
Your analysis on Sonic Unleashed, Colors and Generations are completely spot on with my thoughts. I always thought Generations felt significantly easier than the others. I got S rank on every level on my first try. Very well made video
@premydaremy
Жыл бұрын
More Sonic fans need to realize that "punishing level design" should never be used as a con, as long as it's executed correctly. Sonic Rush is a 10/10.
@BrokenAce1295
Жыл бұрын
In my opinion, Rush is very far from a 10/10 game because of the cheap, trial-and-error nature of its level design and also odd obstacle placements in terms of spikes, bottomless pits, enemies and crushing blocks. Also, I would argue that punishing level design can be used as a con whether it's executed "correctly" or not, since certain people will still possibly find the level design cheaply made for the sake of artificial difficulty. Not everybody's going to tolerate level design like that.
@premydaremy
Жыл бұрын
@@BrokenAce1295 No such thing as a game that "everybody" tolerates. But the fact of the matter is there is clearly a demand for this kind of level design as console gaming was built around it from the start. Not everyone has to like it, but there's a reason why painfully tough games like Getting Over It, Hollow Knight, & Mega Man continue to exist.
@CSTH1
Жыл бұрын
I just saw your monitors, and what it says on them is making me super overjoyed. Seriously, Sonic CD is such a great game. I really do like you as a KZitemr, and even as a person. I just haven't been able to consistently comment due to a multitude of reasons I don't want to get into right now. Anyways, I've always liked the Boost and I hope it can be made better if it's going to be the lasting formula for Sonic. 😄😁
@dez-m
Жыл бұрын
100% Sonic CD is PEAK SONIC!
@CSTH1
Жыл бұрын
@@dez-m Indeed! Sonic CD is such a great game like I said before! :)
@Ray33216
Жыл бұрын
I really feel like the boost was a good idea but I feel like for frontiers 2 they should ditch the boost and replace it with the spin dash
@lord_bobanewname4069
Жыл бұрын
@Banjo n' Ka'shootie For the ps4 yeah ut make it so the boost doesn't have you go max speed. it should definitly speed you up but you should be able to make you go light speed if you can do it right
@Sorcerer-SMC
Жыл бұрын
Or just create two different zones for a location. Speed Zones and Adventure Zones. It all depends on how Boost Formula is handled Those who say the Speed Boost should be ditched entirely are just toxic Sonic fans.
@lynxfresh5214
Жыл бұрын
"Frontiers 2" needs to be a genuine improvement on what already works while still introducing new elements that organically build upon the core foundation while still standing on its own merits (just like Sonic 2). I'm still kinda iffy with the nostalgia crutch tho.
@dave9515
Жыл бұрын
Boost can do what spindash can do but better and more. You all need to stop acting like spindash was much better. They can make boost have slope physics and acceleration. I never want to go back to boring slopes and spindashing after frontiers. Spindash doesn't have magnet dash, airdashing, and trick state. Spindash spam is no different than boosting lol. Sonic has never actually been about slope physics and its always been about going fast. They even used slopes to showcase sonic going breakneck speeds back in sth and sth2 when marketing sonic. Spindash is archaic and outdated now.
@DaRaginLombax
Жыл бұрын
The problem with Frontiers Cyber stages is, not that they reused level design, but said design just isn't built for how Sonic controls in there
@RealDingoes
Жыл бұрын
as someone who has wanted a real unleashed PC port for ages now, frontiers kinda felt like a "we have unleashed PC port at home" especially with its reused levels. i really enjoyed this video, a lot of things that i'd been feeling about the series and its downfall post-Generations was really put into words here. at least magnet dash is super fun to play with
@sonicdml4175
Жыл бұрын
I personally feel like frontiers isn't a boost formula game, it just features boost, especially since they were experimenting with boost and spindash co-existing.
@itssplix1769
Жыл бұрын
I agree with most of this video except the part where you say some of the levels in sonic frontiers has too much platforming because sonic is and always has been a platforming game Edit: also you can customize the turning speed and everything whit sonic frontiers
@theogofguitar
Жыл бұрын
I was dead set on being dissatisfied with Frontiers because the boost. They managed to make it work well here. I do think it can be evolved more, if they can incorporate more physics here it would be great. I’d love another title where the zone can be ‘broken’. Where’s it not just a go fast until you can’t and where control and momentum is paired together with boost going fast. Frontiers is by far the best controlled 3D Sonic team title in an open space. I do think the traditional levels here are..just not quite there but like the video says replay ability for these zones are in its favor.
@jakec4920
Жыл бұрын
Cyberspace would’ve definitely benefited from keeping Sonics controls in the open zone and maybe always having him in the “powered up” state
@skullz1484
Жыл бұрын
Not matt putting full effort into his videos i love videos like this please keep this up, i don’t care how long it takes to make them, i love these videos
@ChumZoneGamingEnt
Жыл бұрын
Great video and hit a lot of key points right on the nose, one thing I wish the formula took was 100% 3D boost...no 2D what's so ever. And it sucks because only fan games have done this and did it very well Sonic Adventure Package and Sonic Omens. The 2D has gotten so stale even in the open zone Frontiers.
@Nic_2751
Жыл бұрын
I just think the boost formula like many have said, is just too shallow and unsustainable, I think even Frontiers adding combat and open zone play isn’t enough, we need to try and recreate the adventure 1 feel whilst doing something new that gives us momentum but still fun level design that can be approached open or linear
@Terminal_Apotos
Жыл бұрын
Exactly, the current iteration of the Open Zone Platforming IS NOT sustainable. In Frontiers alone they were already running out of unique and fun little obstacles Courses by the end of Rhea. They need to make Sonic’s Movement itself fun by reintroducing momentum, that and having more Open Zone Platforming that isn’t 80% Automation and Homing attack Chains. The only reason frontiers got away with the automation was because you constantly went in and out so it never felt like the game was taking control away for long periods of time. They’re literally gonna run into the Same Problem as in Forces where the Gameplay gets Stale because they ran out of interesting Boost Level Design ideas.
@Terminal_Apotos
Жыл бұрын
@@welp65 it would make Sonic’s Movement itself So much more Fun and add a Whole other layer of Depth to the Gameplay. Just look up Videos on the Momentum Mod for Sonic Frontiers.
@fazelfarrokhi1998
Жыл бұрын
@@Terminal_Apotos hi do not talk to him he is classic and adventure momentum hater and only loves boost unleashed and keep talkin about spam-dash i myself love classic and adventure momentum i hope next game do it
@dave9515
Жыл бұрын
@@Terminal_Apotos You can literally add more momentum retaining with boosting and give it slope physics and acceleration lol on top of it having an airdash and the now magnet dash thing. Spindash is outdated and archaic. Boost can do everything spindash did but better and offer far more flexibility. Spindashing is rigid and stiff while boost is flexible and expendable.
@Banana807
Жыл бұрын
@@Terminal_Apotos adding momentum to an open world design like frontiers would not be enough, frontiers open world design is designed with the boost in mind, if you give sonic momentum remove boost and give him a spin dash then it wouldnt work, most of the time you would have to be spamming the spin dash bc getting momentum by just running would be almost non existent
@PixelizedPlayz
Жыл бұрын
Boost may make Sonic fast. But lets be honest. Big is obviously the fastest in the sonic universe :)
@ItzGlitchyy
Жыл бұрын
Not sure the magnet dash is a glitch, they used it in a sonic speed strats video
@cerealkiller4702
Жыл бұрын
I bet you this was the meeting to make lost world: Guy 1: So, people loved Generations, which was our only modern game with classic sonic in it. So, I think it’s obvious that they loved classic sonic Guy 2: So we’re doing a Modern and Classic game again Guy 1: No- Actually, we’ll do that next game Guy 2: Doesnt that game already have a gimmi- Guy 1: What I’m saying is that we’re changing his gameplay! Guy 3: Again? Guy 1: Ofc!
@lpfan4491
Жыл бұрын
More like "Yeah, we are tired of the boost after having done 4 of those games in a row. Surely we can make one singular game to break our monotony." And then absolute hell breaks loose and causes Sega to decide to assassinate Forces to get rid of both the Boost and direct LW-influence at the same time.
@Crow_Rising
Жыл бұрын
I feel like Cyberspace can be somewhat forgiven because those levels are entirely optional bonus stages that are just there as a fun little side activity. They feel like obstacle courses more than proper stages because that's exactly what they are. They're obstacle courses. However, I generally agree with the points mentioned about them in the video. In particular, they contribute to the overall "Almost but not quite there" feeling that Frontiers gives overall. It's definitely reaching up from the abyss the franchise was brought down to by Frontiers, but it's not quite pulled itself back up into greatness yet. It's still just "good". I think the best way to do Boost in 3D is like a combination of Generations and Unleashed. For the main campaign, have the level design and controls be more like Generations, but use a ranking system more like Unleashed. However, include optional bonus missions that really ramp up that difficulty. I feel the need to stress: OPTIONAL bonus missions. I would rather have a short game with a lot of replay value than a game with artificial length that overstays it's welcome because it forces you to do all the things. Also, please actually include the quick step and drift properly, and not context exclusive. Colors on the Wii had the excuse of there not being enough buttons and so they had to compromise. We're in the 2020's now. That's not an issue, and Generations absolutely nailed it a decade ago. I don't necessarily want them to get rid of the Open Zone gameplay from Frontiers however, so here's my idea for if that stays in: The main gameplay consists of Open Zone gameplay. You can unlock two different types of more linear boost stages, all of which are optional: The first have more Generations type level design. Slightly tricky, but not too hard. Unleashed ranking system. The second can only be unlocked after beating whatever the final boss is, and provide much more of a brutal challenge. For these, I would give them a Generations type ranking system, except it's A rank you're practically guaranteed to get. To get those S ranks, you have to really start using those pro speedrun strats and secure those clench clear times. These would function as the ultimate challenge for experienced players, and would be where most of the replay value is for these types of stages. I'd say there should be a good reward for clearing all of these with S ranks, but it should also be able to be obtained through a separate method in game for those who don't prefer the boost levels. Another thing I think is crucial at this point: We are sick and tired of the reused level tropes. Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Sky Sanctuary are getting really old at this point. We need more level variety, and we need more original level tropes. Let these games stand on their own two feet instead of constantly reminding us of the old days. Green Hill Zone isn't nostalgic if you keep seeing it in every game. It's just old and overused. Be more like the Advance games, Rush, or even Colors and lean more into originality. It will have more appeal that way, and show a confidence in the game having it's own identity without needing to lean on older games that did well.
@CosmicSponge2004
Жыл бұрын
Why did you ignore The Wii Version of Sonic Unleashed? It was developed by Dimps (The Creators of The Rush Games) and it has an infinitely better boost than the HD Version
@kilochampion787
Жыл бұрын
Sonic Unleashed does not have good controls for the boost gameplay… Sonic literally is so slippery that drifting is completely useless unless you don’t boost and even then it rarely happens.
@BrokenAce1295
Жыл бұрын
On top of that, Sonic is very stiff and tank-like to control when platforming. Then for him to be too fast and slippery as well, it's some of the weirdest controls.
@ykgcaramel6515
Жыл бұрын
I really do just want the generations and unleashed boost style back
@MegaNUT711
16 күн бұрын
Watching this after the dlc came out, with the adjustable turning speed and deceleration and stuff for frontiers, cyberspace is better
@blue.boi21
Жыл бұрын
Sonic is GOD
@OpticTeadrop
Жыл бұрын
Personally I love the boost formula in Sonic Frontiers - but i think comparing it wit "classic" boost games kind of misses the point. To me, Sonic Frontiers has a new take on boost formula - with slower Sonic and more platforming. In that regard it's similiar to colors, except colors was mostly about exploration. It's not perfect, but it somehow sticks with me really well, maybe even being my favourite one. My favourite thing has to be (hot take!) the controls. The ground controls are allright, but the air control is amazing! Because air boost gives you height, I find myself doing "jump - air boost - double jump" combo all the time for this "triple jump", and it is really fun to play levels with it. My only problem is that when you use you action in the air, it gets locked and you have to walk on the ground to use it again - for example if I stomp into a spring, I can't stomp again - i havce to land normally. But other than this little inconvinience, I am a big fan, and I hope they will continue to develop this style in the future. And of course the music is a perfect 10/10
@Call0045
Жыл бұрын
Can't agree with your take on Sonic Frontiers, honestly. It's true that Sonic doesn't controls like Unleashed nor Generations, but I think that's not a bad thing. If anything, he should control just like he does in the open zones. The way Sonic interacts with the new level design since he have different controls (specially now that the boost don't just destroy everything in our way) makes the old levels feel familiar enough yet still a new fun challenge. It's a lot more like an obstacle course fast platformer than the speedrun simulator Unleashed was. I think comparing Frontiers Cyberspace to a 100% boost game is just as disingenuous as people who complained about the boost formula being "boost to win". On a side note, the drift in Unleashed felt really slippery and the controls also don't feel nearly as good as Generations controls. The level design can be really terrible (Holoska day) with a lot of trial and error, which is not a good thing for a platformer. There are definetely some harder stages in Unleashed that are way more fair and don't rely on cheap kills (Empire City, for example. But some others, like Holoska, were straight up garbage.
@kirbygamer0640
Жыл бұрын
To be fair, there is a huge incentive to go fast in Generations, at least in my opinion. And that incentive is...seeing a little green number telling me how much time I saved with each playthrough! Also, there's a BIG incentive to speedrun Sonic Forces levels, too! *So you can play the game quicker and get it over with.* I mean, really...who wants to sit through a game filled with straight line levels?
@Tobunari
Жыл бұрын
We know why they change the formula after each game: Money. They've been very clear on why they change the formula each game. Remember when they talked about Lost World? They said they aimed that game towards Mario fans, IE MONEY.
@sonixx3272
Жыл бұрын
"Sonic is bad lol" Why? "Mario better lol" Why "Cause I said so lol" That's not an opinion or an argument that's just stupidity and that's why I hate Video game companies and Video game fanbases
@TarnishedTaint
Жыл бұрын
Hated the cyberspace levels. I 100% sonic frontiers just like i do every sonic game i play and it was not a good expirience (i have the screenshots on fb to prove it) but its like the game fights you as you try to play it. He's slow and clunky and the boost is awful.
@lpgod9470
Жыл бұрын
Momentum cannot come back or if it does it should only suppliment the boost. Momentum in itself is okay in the normal sonic level because they are bite size 1-3 min stages that can be custom built around momentum. But the open world would just be empty with slopes and barely any platforming. We saw in sonic utopia that developers have get out of their way to make momentum work in a sandbox setting. Also would be annoying and boring for casuals and even hardcore players to find out a way to go oneside of a map to another fastest way possible with momentum. It could be fun the first few times but I can easily people gettting burnt out. I believe momentum have a place to stay but not in openworld formula. - I might get hate for this but the adventures titles didn't really have momentum the way y'all claimed there is a set top speed that sonic can't breach. Adventures is about how you can use your speed to complete challenges. It can be through spindash, lightspeed dash, and etc.
@Banana807
Жыл бұрын
I agree, momentum should stay in the bite size stages, bc as cool as momentum would sound in an open world setting, its hard to keep it fun unless theres alot of stuff that gives you momentum in the world
@Banana807
Жыл бұрын
If frontiers had momentum in the open world i assure you it wouldnt be as fun.
@yurieshicatay6309
Жыл бұрын
the boost formula is a one trick pony it does one thing very well and that's give the exhilaration of speed but in order to deliver that experience it sacrifices so many things level design, obstacles, enemies, platforming, exploration. these things get neglected or are out right cut cause they end up clashing with the boost gameplay as a result boost levels feel long hallways where your just running forward and alot of the times the levels feel the same with just a different esthetic. I think thats why boost fell off you can only do so much with the formula its very limited
@UnleashedStudios
Жыл бұрын
It is
@sparking023
Жыл бұрын
To me the reason why Sega plays so much with their formulas, boost or otherwise, is because the fandom is large and with a lot of variety. you got momentum fans, boost fans, adventure fans, and pleasing everyone becomes nigh impossible. you'll always have critics. also, it's funny to see every other new Sonic game ends making people look at Unleashed with more fondness and respect (and look, the Werehog stages were cool)
@mr.mcklockwork3828
Жыл бұрын
This logic makes sense. But they wouldnt have so many people to please if they just stuck with 1 style. You don't see Mario fans pining for anything because his games have stayed consistent
@sparking023
Жыл бұрын
@@mr.mcklockwork3828 and that's precisely why I like Sonic more. You play one Mario game, you played all of them. Granted there's also the 3D model, but they're all iterations of Super Mario 64, which isn't particularly bad, just not as interesting to me
@tinfoilmkiv8394
Жыл бұрын
Nice analysis of the history of boost formula Sonic. Honestly wasn't into 3d Sonic games for a long time. Then Unleashed came around. I couldn't have told you why I liked it so much, but you really helped nail it down. The day side of that game was truly fantastic. Night wasn't bad either, it was just... a completely different game, heh. That said, you should give Spark the Electric Jester series a look. Heavily inspired by Sonic, and does both 2d and 3d quite well in my book. Or at the very least you're missing out if you don't try out the most recent 3rd game. Would love to hear you thoughts on em, as someone who's clearly got both a lot of experience with sonic games, and is good at breaking down the elements that really work, and those that fall flat.
@swetapuppet7729
4 ай бұрын
What dose dream team count as I would say it has good controls and the level design is fun raking is also challenging so 3/3
@dave9515
Жыл бұрын
Boost can do what spindash can do but better and more. You all need to stop acting like spindash was much better. They can make boost have slope physics and acceleration. I never want to go back to boring slopes and spindashing after frontiers. Spindash doesn't have magnet dash, airdashing, and trick state. Spindash spam is no different than boosting lol. Sonic has never actually been about slope physics and its always been about going fast. They even used slopes to showcase sonic going breakneck speeds back in sth and sth2 when marketing sonic. Spindash is archaic and outdated now.
@lpfan4491
Жыл бұрын
The spindash was never really top dog anyways, with its introductory game actually being designed before creating the mechanic.
@dave9515
Жыл бұрын
@@lpfan4491 For real. Spindash is so rigid and stiff. It offers barely any flexibility and after frontiers people should realize the boost has potential to be the best addition to the series now. Magnet dashing, air dashing, trick state and much more to come if they keep refining the boost now. Spindash feels so archaic and outdated now. When i go back to the adventure titles or even a game like mania i feel so restrained yeah so constrained. But then whenever i boot up frontiers i feel free as can be. Boost allows for more creative level design too. I actually hope we never go back to spindashing now. It would only be a novelty at best and even if they incorporate slope physics next game for dropdash dropdash is enough honestly.
@dez-m
Жыл бұрын
SONIC CD IS ABSOLUTELY PEAK FICTION!!! W
@Genesis-XE
Жыл бұрын
If Sonic Forces was the first ever 3D boost game, people could see the potential of the formula in future boost games however we know Sonic Team can do better since we’ve SEEN them do better with Unleashed, Colours and Generations..
@dontbecomelgbt
Жыл бұрын
Ok im sorry but sonic heroes, shadow the hedgehog and sonic and the secret rings are not a bad games + i think you were kinda unfair with sonic frontiers, i mean most of the cyberspace levels are not from the boosting games, like sonic adventure 2
@CosmicSponge2004
Жыл бұрын
He never said Heroes was bad. He just said it was very different from SA2 in his opinion
@dontbecomelgbt
Жыл бұрын
@@CosmicSponge2004 in another video, he did
@smoothsoulbrotha
Жыл бұрын
Also boost should be able to plow through enemies and certain obstacles. Frontiers be like nope you gotta kick or punch.
@hedgehog_buddy
Жыл бұрын
Finally the first time i heard someone mention how slow sonic is in frontiers Seriosly frontiers You 've got to be kidding me
@Skypatroller_BenCD
Жыл бұрын
00:24 i don't entirely disagree with your background but I'm saying that cause it's my first game ever (look my name LOL) but yeah i don't disagree
@Boykeeplays
Жыл бұрын
Actually getting an s rank in Gens isn't as simple as not dying
@lynxfresh5214
Жыл бұрын
Boost formula is my bane, it introduced my favourite Sonic characters (Blaze and Chip) while also reinventing what it means to "gotta go fast" yet it's definitely overstayed its welcome on top of the fact for whatever reason Sega scrapped what they had going in Generations for Lost World and then did a purposely poor job at imitating Generations with Forces. I honestly don't care what gameplay future Sonic games have, I just want to climb, glide and explore a 2.5 or 3D environment in a mainline title as Knuckles again (After well over a decade, I highly doubt I'm asking for too much. Same for Tails tbh).
@2bitbyte
Жыл бұрын
I'm with you, man, I never really even liked the boost gameplay, and the tradeoff for it was losing other playable characters. I hope with Frontiers' DLC, this starts a trend of Tails & Knuckles being regularly playable again...cuz I kinda like all of Sonic's friends way more than Sonic himself ^^;;;
@lpfan4491
Жыл бұрын
@@2bitbyte That's why we got so many playable characters in the few non-boost games of the time and why Blaze was yeeted out of Colors DS. And why Classic Sonic is allowed to exist who despite OP-spindash doesn't really play like the boost.
@2bitbyte
Жыл бұрын
@@lpfan4491 Classic Sonic is still Sonic, the Boom games sucked, and I have no clue what your point about Colors DS is. I guess we did have Mania but too much of it was rehashed levels imo...
@lpfan4491
Жыл бұрын
@@2bitbyte The thing is, the boost is not the reason why the series largely went Sonic-only in non-mania games, to the point where the boost game that would be expected to have a second playable character(because it's effectively the third rush-game) doesn't. Boom is a big exception, but that was outsourced to be a completely seperate thing, so the same principles barely apply.
@2bitbyte
Жыл бұрын
@@lpfan4491 It IS connected. Making playable characters with meaningful differences (Tails' flight, Knuckles gliding) takes a lot of work, especially to balance a game around them. But the boost formula already requires long stretches of stage for Sonic to run on, resulting in levels that (should have been) physically larger than in older titles where speed was more a feature and less THE feature. Shadow could be included in Forces because, well, he's literally a reskin of Sonic, but from a canon perspective, other characters that are supposed to be slower than Sonic could not play on his same levels; Sega clearly doesn't want Tails or Knuckles to be able to use the boost. The game would have to be rebalanced around them, giving them their own levels, and increasing the already unacceptably long development time. (Seriously, how many years did it take them to crap out FORCES??) Of course, Sega has finally figured out that they can actually support a game post-launch with updates, but it remains to be seen how substantial those updates will really be for Frontiers...
@spyrotikus
Жыл бұрын
The Sonic Generations S Ranks are stupid easy, sure, but the doppleganger races' S Ranks make up for that. They are super fun to do because they require a lot of experimentation and mastery of the level design, almost on par for difficulty with some of Unleashed's levels.
@ultra9349
Жыл бұрын
Sonic 06 was the first 3d boost game although boost was unlocked near the end
@kittenkat2627
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, you are the only person I’ve heard say that you like 1-2 in frontiers
@ProbablySunky
Жыл бұрын
Hey Sega make a Matthasnocuts game and make it good and not hot garbage like sonic forces
@snfn1562
Жыл бұрын
magnet dash is really cool and fun. But I shouldn't have to learn tech to enjoy 1/3 of the game
@thaneros
Жыл бұрын
I think the issue is Sega/Sonic Team are afraid to make a challenging levels and ranks again because of complaints. I honestly think 1-2 in Frontiers was a test as it was the only stage that had an insane S-Rank.
@destroyermcw626
Жыл бұрын
Whew that one was tough and I had to use advanced boost techniques to skip some enemy sections sheesh.
@sometf2player752
Жыл бұрын
honestly id say the sa2 and original levels in frontiers were better than the unleashed/gens ones
@superscoobsses5633
Жыл бұрын
I could argue that everything you said could also be applied to momentum based physics and momentum based physics it also requires you to know the level Leo to have great reaction time and I’d say the skill ceiling is even higher because you need to know how to utilize momentum to gain max speed boost games have the same formula the momentum ones have except you can hit max speed with just a push of a button
@breno8119
Жыл бұрын
I feel that the boost games have much more focus on speed than momentum ones. Whenever I play Classic or SA, reacting to the level never feels as hard as for boosting games. In momentum based, usually the stage will control how fast you are because of how it let's you get acess to your max speed, in boost however this decision is up to the player. Since the stage no longer dictates when or where you can gain max speed, now the player have more ways to clear the stages faster and faster, thus increasing the skill celling. I can see how momentun games, specially classic ones, needs you to memorize the stage to gain speed when you can, but I do believe that giving this decision to the player opens more windows to skill expression.
@superscoobsses5633
Жыл бұрын
@@breno8119 but what other choice do you have besides boosting? It’s the same thing The level is built around boost as well in those longer cord doors you are clearly meant to boost down there and there is no such thing as reaction time and boost game you may be able to react to words directly in front of you but nine times out of 10 it requires knowing the level to be able to actually get to the level fastest
@superscoobsses5633
Жыл бұрын
@@breno8119 I can agree that boost has a higher focus on speed but that’s literally because it’s just that a boosting game nine times out of 10 you’re not going to react to it coming up ahead you’re just going to remember to head by replaying 11 more and in both games the stage controls when you can go fast because in boost you can clearly tell when the stage once you to be used just like a momentum you can clearly tell when the stage once you to use your ball to gain speed in both games the level is built in a way to encourage you to do certain actions and I’d even go as far to say I think it’s harder to be good at momentum or go it’s a simple as knowing when to roll into a ball it’s a lot harder to control your momentum I know just the right timing to use your roll than it is to hold a button down and go left or right
@DJ3592
Жыл бұрын
I've never been so offended by something i completely agree with
@jrkirby_
Жыл бұрын
You said banger like 5 times in a row... bruh. Subbed
@Oofers98
Жыл бұрын
"uH ACCultty thE BoOst WaS firsT in SoNic AdVance 2"
@thaneros
Жыл бұрын
Why does everyone seem to forget that the boost style started with Advance 2....
@mailpack584
Жыл бұрын
As far as I'm concerned, the boost formula effectively turns sonic into a different kind of gaming experience. Not a platformer, but a racing game. No cap, the 3d sonic gameplay has more in common with need for speed than classic sonic
@artistanthony1007
Жыл бұрын
From the usage of Boost in SF, I feel they actually perfected it so as a common ground for Bbost fans (me mostly) and Adventure fans.
@lightspeedchaos8420
Жыл бұрын
Thanks to Extreme mode in Frontiers, it is now a 1/3 yay...
@hamzamohamed6774
7 күн бұрын
''SONIC CD IS PEAK FICTION''
@temmssmdisnas
Жыл бұрын
For me, controls are a huge part of why I love the boost games. Boost Sonic has a wide variety of tools to apply to each situation, and even the niche moves like the stomp and slide had some cool uses. The game should not force the player to approach the level in a certain way by limiting their options, but Forces, Frontiers and Colors Wii spit in the face of that. Colors Wii only lets you quickstep or drift in designated areas, and Forces + Frontiers straight up removed Sonic's ability to drift, replacing it with the autoturn mechanic that breaks if you try to boost.
@IronicSonic83
Жыл бұрын
Sonic needs to comeback to the high budget formula
@JonyPlayz1
Жыл бұрын
Great video! You pretty much perfectly represented the evolution of boost and how Rush is still peak 👌lol
@Egood_ty
Жыл бұрын
Actually love the boost in Frontiers
@SaddieMoon
2 ай бұрын
20:37 Thankfully, Shadow Generations has pretty decent level design so far, and some of the devs from Sonic Gens are back.
@sikosonix901
2 ай бұрын
True. But I'm certain that this will be the last of it. This is how it goes with this series. Once the formula fails, it gets abandoned. It can come back, but usually in a one off or completely differently. 06 killed adventure, and Forces killed boost. Shadow Generations only exist because of the game along side it. That's why they brought back they people who worked on the original. They wanted to make sure that its on the same level so they deserve to stand by each other. After that, it's all open zone until it fails and we repeat the cycle.
@Yoshigamingchannel
Жыл бұрын
Not gonna lie the werehog is the best part of unleashed
@riveravelazquezbrandonkevi6087
Жыл бұрын
Ok, but why is this opinion so based and correct
@Electrical010
Жыл бұрын
Cyberspace was something interesting, because it had it's own physics and controls separated from the open zone controls. In the open zone you can turn Sonic where ever you want and he won't go against you the controls are nearly at it's peak. Cyberspace they decide to make the turning a little harder, sure the controls are nearly like the open zone but they're different by a small amount.
@zenar30
Жыл бұрын
I like that too. But yeah, unfortunately, cyberspace levels are short and not as challenging as Generations or Unleashed. But I love the physics so much . Maybe it's because there's more control and Sonic is closer to what Adventure was, so I like that, and Sonic Team is on the right path
@Electrical010
Жыл бұрын
@@zenar30 Definitely the right path, I have no idea what is managing down there but if they can keep this up and learn from their mistakes they can surpass Frontiers and possibly other favourite titles.
@lawrencetamunotonye9010
Жыл бұрын
I love this video because it's too true especially with sonic unleashed and frontiers
@Etch..
Жыл бұрын
I would definitely not call Sonic Frontiers a boost formula game, especially since it’s now been confirmed that the Boost Stages were just to fill in the variety quota in Cyberspace, and that it’ll likely be something completely different and original next game, so yeah, the days of boost game days are basically behind us
@Nateziller
Жыл бұрын
"Sonic CD is peak fiction"
@delaisaka3318
Жыл бұрын
Magnet Dash isn’t a glitch, it’s an exploit using the game mechanics
@ericbayer123
Жыл бұрын
I don't really think Sonic Frontiers is the same boost gameplay as the others and shouldn't be compared. In the other games it is used to burst through obstacles and to traverse the stage. In Frontiers it is used as a tool to get around and avoid obstacles. Completely different point.
@destroyermcw626
Жыл бұрын
Helpful for Cyberspace 1-2 cause ooo boy I turned my Unleashed try hard on for that one
@sakuradabp6400
Жыл бұрын
Least tryhard Sonic fan:
@Ecl1pse_15
Жыл бұрын
Matthasnocuts? More like matthasnocaps
@MissingMeep
Жыл бұрын
While time criteria would have to be changed I think Unleashed physics would make cyberspace great (I also love how they did the recharging boost in frontiers though)
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