"history is seldom kind to history" that earns a subscribe right there
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@flyingtoaster1427
Ай бұрын
…except by experience.
@multivitamin425
Жыл бұрын
9:27 "Who taught the clay to lie." may be a metaphor to show how convincing the statues were that they looked alive even tho they were lifeless mud. Therefore the clay lied it is alive.
@Laurencemardon
Жыл бұрын
Thx for that quote here, I listened to it several times over but couldn’t figure out what the dude was saying!!
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
Жыл бұрын
My brain went straight to a Sumerian fudging the numbers on a clay tax form.
@adriennegormley9358
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing, about the realism of the statues etc.
@AWildBard
Жыл бұрын
There is a story about that ... from Latin American literature. Can't remember it exactly now.
@ThePartarar
Жыл бұрын
I’d argue its an architectural reference, probably to building large monuments or structures. Could be totally wrong though…
@AztlanHistorian
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the chance of working with you, my friend! Cenca tlazohcamati!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
The honor was mine!
@victormedina9154
Жыл бұрын
saludos
@AztlanHistorian
Жыл бұрын
@@victormedina9154 ¡Saludos hombre! :)
@Alex-mi6vp
Жыл бұрын
Que significa, "Cenca tlazohcamati"? Apenas voy a empezar el vídeo pero nunca lo avía escuchado
@tlatolcalli682
Жыл бұрын
Ome de Mis dos creadormeh favoritos!
@KaiserWilbur
Жыл бұрын
My parents are from Nicaragua and the Nahua presence here is amazing. Historians and scholars believe that the Nahua of Nicaragua are descended from Tollan’s Toltecs. The evidence to support this theory is astonishing, such as the Nicarao’s expertise in medicine, the timeframe of the Nicarao’s migration to Nicaragua after the fall of Tollan lines up almost perfectly. In fact it’s taught in high academia that the Nicarao are Toltecs who simply migrated south after the fall of Tollan. Great video.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@witchflowers6942
Жыл бұрын
thats so fascinating!
@MysticDojo
Жыл бұрын
Not just Nicaragua the Pipil people of El salvador too! A form of Nahuatl is even still spoken there as the southern most form of Nahua language far outside the original scope that's born and spoken in Mexico, it's the southern most because the language is now considered extinct in Nicaragua. However we also have the legend of Topiltzin establishing a population in El Salvador before moving onto Nicaragua during his exodus. Another thing is not only was he believed to take on the name of Queztalcoatl but was also believed to be an incarnation of the deity to his people, which may explain the rivalry between him and Tezcotlipoca in myth if it may have also been grounded in historical events. A king that detested human sacrifice where rival and later groups would glorify the practice.
@ignaciomondragon99
Жыл бұрын
@@MysticDojo Nawat isn't extinct from nicaragua, there're small pockets of speakers in the central and northwest of the country. It's estimated that there's 100 native speakers left and more speakers that blend nawat-spanish together mixed.
@MysticDojo
Жыл бұрын
@@KaiserWilbur oh rip than I guess you better go and correct the academic sources cause they also say it went extinct in the region by the 19th century.
@jsmit9063
Жыл бұрын
The Toltecs "teaching the clay to lie" means objects they would make look so good it's deceiving to their eyes, they look so good they can't believe what they see, like the clay is lying to them. It's a really powerful, albeit convoluted, way to compliment their work.
@yanina.korolko
9 ай бұрын
"teaching the clay to lie" also can mean that what looks like stone is actually made of clay.
@flyingtoaster1427
8 ай бұрын
@@yanina.korolko yeah and that sounds less cryptic too.. my compliments to you. (People speak in English as if they know what they are saying... 'convoluted' is included and 'complement' is lost. :).
@alexanderparas323
Жыл бұрын
As someone who enjoyed studied Classics in college, I love learning about the amazing histories, languages, and cultures of the Americas. Too often are they overlooked, and you’re doing an amazing job highlighting them and sharing their stories. Thank you for the amazing content!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@im1066
Жыл бұрын
The mere fact that European Mediterranean culture is singularly referred to as "The Classics", in complete disregard for the rest of the planet, goes to show the bias. I too am deeply appreciative of these detailed looks into Mesoamerican culture.
@asianthor
Жыл бұрын
Same here, I love learning about all the many different cultures that the Americas have had from Thousands of years ago. There are so many unknown people/cultures who are not talked about at all today. One of those cultures that fascinate me is the Pre-Olnec culture of Monte Alto, Guatemala. They predate the Olmec and science now are saying that the Pre-Olnec people were probably the first to know the properties of magnetism about 800-1,000 years before the Greeks and Chinese.
@bobwilson7684
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas so none has any idea at all, I mean at all...the more I look at these ancient stuffs, the more I come to think that specialists also have no clue of what they translate, and the chaos and missmatches of artifacts with dna, how much people moved in the past, how much humans lie about themsleves and about the enemies well...no clue at all. I see the good intention in many of you with these works, and for real, much respect, at least your version is not the classic unilineal kind of narrative..but I quit with the "official historical record", kudos to you for putting so much info together, a lot of work, but for me, it only serves to improve that no clue, there is no way to trust any historical record, we can only take what may be convenient for sleeping better. nice vid as I say. thanks for keeping the doors opened to other views and providing all possible proposals.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
@@bobwilson7684 archaeology always has room for error. If you think the evidence is being misinterpreted, you should present your own ideas. An outsider's perspective can be a valuable thing.
@robertmcgovern8850
Жыл бұрын
I tried to interest our city council in putting a skull rack downtown, next to the kiddie splash park, but they had already spent all the money on a second ball court.🙄 We'd have to raise the funds ourselves. So if anyone wants their name on a paver ($50) or pillar ($200) of the new skull rack, we are taking donations.
@Scepticalasfuk
Ай бұрын
Will it have real skulls ???
@Natalia-pc7fm
21 күн бұрын
@@robertmcgovern8850 🤭 What dark humour!
@specialnewb9821
12 күн бұрын
I can envision someone complaining about the exact same thing 1500 years ago, and it amuses me greatly.
@Nilshelppi
Жыл бұрын
In 2022 I am 73, California native . In 5-6th grade I did a school report on the Toltec. That was about 1958. I was fascinated by the advanced civilization . Thank you for this very interesting YT video .
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@daviddeltoro1808
Жыл бұрын
Now THIS is how you lay down the history of ancient Mesoamerica
@Ntyler01mil
Жыл бұрын
This makes me think of Troy, which is a relatively small archeological site, but which had great significance to the Greeks and Romans.
@SantiagoGarza-bg9wp
Ай бұрын
I was thinking of something like Delphi, but this makes more sense
@QUIRK1019
Жыл бұрын
This is channel consistently publishes some of the highest quality history content on all of KZitem. Thank you for sharing your talent with us
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@mexicounexplained
Жыл бұрын
The Toltecs have always been "problematic." Great show! You did a wonderful job synthesizing the material. Mil gracias.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Gracias!
@oisnowy5368
Жыл бұрын
Does that not feel threatening to you? One day it may result in Mexico Explained. :P
@mexicounexplained
Жыл бұрын
@@oisnowy5368 ha ha
@chrisr6142
4 ай бұрын
Not really. Not when you consult the sources. It only became problematic when archaeologists declared Tula Xicocotitla as the only Tollan. Creating a cognitive dissonance when presented with anything else.
@SwabcraftCreates
Жыл бұрын
You don't have to be an empire to have a big impact. City states like Athens and Sparta had massive historical and cultural impacts. Toltec's were heavily influential in a similar way despite not being an empire level power.
@Carewolf
Жыл бұрын
Athens had a maretime empire though
@Carewolf
Жыл бұрын
And Hellenic influence in general was greatly spread by Alexander the Great, and the massive empire he created.
@Wyckoff_ape
Жыл бұрын
@@Carewolf but their lasting influence is arguably the immaterial philosophical and scientific concepts that they left behind. It could be similar in this region, where the Toltec's are regarded as highly developed in culture and knowledge, just as the Greek's were in Ancient Europe.
@anthonyoer4778
Жыл бұрын
@@Wyckoff_ape those "immaterial" influences were the schools, languages, ideas left behind of the culture when the state fell not the complete death of the people and culture...
@Laurencemardon
Жыл бұрын
Hi swabcraft, carewolf and others, I just thought I’d opine a few tidbits on this blessed controversy. Firstly I’d say that Athens did intentionally embark on an imperial agenda, citing the mighty Thucydides as an early historian on the partickulars. Whether Sparta ever shared that agenda I would be far less certain of. That they resented opposed or even feared in a rather manly sort of way, naturally, the various consequences the Athenian ambitions could impose on Sparta and its allies is fairly apparently why they matched or opposed is probably clearer to say Athenian military forces doesn’t mean that Sparta itself wanted or coveted the same things that Athens did. As a sidebar I’d add at this point that as Thucydides often describes, whether it is fair to generalize that ‘the Athenians’ desired an empire is very debatable (npi), but after the debates the voting etc certain policies were acted upon to advance the imperialist agenda and the rest of em had to suck it up. (Sound familiar??) So probably lots of ppl reading this already know this and I apologize if I sound pretentious or good forbid, misinformed about things that happened way back when . Since it’s all just a preamble to discussing,…? Hang on a sec I gotta review here a bit!!
@thelegate8636
Жыл бұрын
Topiltzin seems very similar to King Arthur. Nowadays, we're pretty sure that Arthur was a real person or conglomeration of people (personally, I think he was Riothamus), but the legends got so crazy that we end up with things like Le Morte d'Arthur. Seems to me that the same thing happened here with him.
@JDRL96
Жыл бұрын
Yes, sounds possible, something on the lines of a historical fact that got over exaggerated. Also kind of reminds me of the protestant reformation, a popular ideology that spread without a central empire to enforce it.
@Guardian_of_Chaos
Жыл бұрын
I can totally see that
@GizzyDillespee
Жыл бұрын
People act like propaganda was a 20th century invention! Despite that, your theory and the preponderance of evidence around the world suggests otherwise.
@EresirThe1st
Жыл бұрын
There's a clear mythic basis to Arthur's stories even at the start. When a hero gets deified that identifies them with earlier cultural narratives.
@sebastianmarquez3014
Жыл бұрын
@The Legate Haha, I read that and immediate thought of what happened to Chuck Norris 20ish years old :P
@eduardohierro6086
6 ай бұрын
My mothers side of the family is from a town near Tula, Hidalgo. My grandmother was indigenous and only spoke Otomi until she moved to Mexico City in her late teens. I am very proud of our origins, thank you for making this video. ❤
@Vienna3080
Жыл бұрын
This is one of the only Historical channels on KZitem that talks about Pre Colombian American history, happy I’m a Patreon!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
I'm happy you're a patron too!
@coldmexican288
Жыл бұрын
I'm from Hidalgo and my city is very close to Tula. I went to Tula and Teotihuacan when i was about 6 years old but haven't had the chance to go back to truly appreciate everything and experience it once more since I live in the US. Lately I've experienced a renewed desire to learn more about my ancestry. I kind of felt disgusted and sad when I realized I knew much more about other cultures and civilizations from foreign places but knew almost nothing about my own ancient culture and roots so I appreciate the level of detail in your video. Thank you.
@JamesWilliams-dz5tn
Жыл бұрын
you shouldn’t feel bad about that. All you can know, is what you’ve been taught. And the further along we go it seems like we find out much of it isn’t true
@lucysanchez98
Жыл бұрын
I learn so much from your videos, i’m Mexican myself and I’ve always took pride in my Aztec heritage! Can you make a video about Aztlan and the origins of the Nahua peoples, thx in advance ❤
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! We'll definitely get to the Aztecs in due time. To be completely honest though, I like covering more obscure topics that don't get as much attention.
@expendablewater7474
Жыл бұрын
Am positive am part Toltec my grandmother was indigenous and tall AF. From Jalisco México. And meeting other Indigenous people from the same area they have Bright yellow eyes as well. And darker skin. The Toltec bloodline still exist
@lucysanchez98
Жыл бұрын
@@expendablewater7474 One thing I absolutely love about the Nahua people is how far they extended, they settled as far south as northern Costa Rica. Historians claim that the Nahua people of Nicaragua, El Salvador and Costa Rica are descendants of Toltecs, they’re known as the Pipil-Nicarao. They know this cause of the Pipil-Nicarao’s expertise in medicine, the Nahuatl dialect the Toltecs spoke is also the exact same the Pipils and the Nicarao spoke, and the religious and political similarities are identical to the Toltecs. In addition the timeframe of the Nahua migrations in Central America after the collapse of Tollan is well timed
@Liliphant_
Жыл бұрын
Fall of Civilizations has a great doc on the Aztecs in the meantime :) I learned more from it than I ever did in school
@thelordandsaviorgigachadrr888
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas maybe something about the origins of nahua peoples in general and when they became a distinct group from other Uto-Aztecan Language Speakers would be nice
@sizanogreen9900
Жыл бұрын
I like the idea that they were legendary for their craftsmanship and more abstract "refinement" among the mesoamericans, like sparta was to the romans for their militarism and well, spartanic lifestyle & upbringing, maybe based on real facts or more a kind of transgenerational flanderisation. And in that way maybe became an ideal to emulate. Maybe like "rome" after the fall of the west-roman empire.
@WhyIsYoutubeSoTerrible
Жыл бұрын
It genuinely rules that it took a half century of research looking into where this legendary city could possibly be until one really really smart guy realized it was likely at the place that had the same name effectively. I hope he was with his beloved cat when he figured this out.
@GuukanKitsune
Жыл бұрын
Sometimes the answer is too obvious to consider.
@alfotiosacaramde9631
Жыл бұрын
Does punctuation forbidden for you? This mess is completely unclear, it's impossible to quickly read your sentences
@GuukanKitsune
Жыл бұрын
@@alfotiosacaramde9631 I didn't have any trouble with it. Also, someone who uses entirely the wrong word, 'does' instead of 'is', kinda has no right to criticise someone's writing and grammar. Especially since you forgot the punctuation at the end yourself.
@paticusmaximus12
Жыл бұрын
@@alfotiosacaramde9631 dig a hole
@WhyIsYoutubeSoTerrible
Жыл бұрын
@@alfotiosacaramde9631 You are just bad at reading comprehension, you illiterate moron. There's some punctuation, numbnuts.
@monalisa8638
Жыл бұрын
This is a great video but I'd like to add one thing that went unmentioned. In western El Salvador we have a group of Nahua people that claim descendance from Tollan. The common story we hear there is that they were part of the nobility who left Mexico (giving them the name pipil) during the socio religious conflict between Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca. How this went down and when these nobles left is uncertain but the linguistic split happened about the same time as this event. Anyways just thought that was cool. Also Ce Acatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl is such a great name. One warrior/Reed, our prince, Quetzalcoatl. The ancestors went hard with that one.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
I actually came across the pipil in my research because they have their own accounts of topiltzin. It's really interesting how far those accounts are spread.
@habitualforeigner
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas Have you learned about Xoconoxco (near Tapachula, Chiapas, near the Guatemala border)? It was populated by Nahuatl speakers and had a significant impact on regional trade and culture in the post-Classic/pre-conquest era, in a region dominated by speakers of languages very different from Central Mexico.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
@@habitualforeigner Yes I have and it is a really interesting area. There's also some Maya presence in that area as well if I'm not mistaken.
@AztlanHistorian
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas Actually Xoconochco wasn't a Nahuatl-speaking region, nor a Mayan one; but a Mixe-Zoquean one, and the dominant language of the region was Tapachultec, a language from a very ancient family which may have been spoken by the Tenocelome.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
@@AztlanHistorian I stand corrected! Thank you for clarifying.
@owenrobertson4314
Жыл бұрын
I think that teaching the clay to lie was a reference to their sculptures being so good they looked real.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
I think that's a great interpretation.
@owenrobertson4314
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas thanks
@mcsjenkins1
Жыл бұрын
Your early videos were awesome, and you just keep getting better and better! Thanks for all the work you put in!!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Nice to see that I've learned a thing or two along the way.
@XenophonAnabasis
Жыл бұрын
I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank you for the time and effort you put into these videos. I look forward to more from you.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@juanbautista7214
Жыл бұрын
Great video as always! Great to find videos in English, I understand Spanish well, but grew up speaking both languages, my English is better growing up in Texas so is nice being able to paint a clearer picture. My fathers is from Guanajuato and have otomi history, and he still made metates when he was young with his grandmother in Comonfort GTO. Love the subject not just exclusive to Aztec (Mexica) or Maya history!
@davo1924
Жыл бұрын
Nice that you know your ancestry my family is from Romita Guanajuato and A small ranch outside of Penjamo Guanajuato. Since that area was the borders of the Tarascan and Aztec borders we really don’t know what tribe/s we descend from. The Otomi were also very present in the region like you said.
@juanbautista7214
Жыл бұрын
@@davo1924 very cool. well thats just the last language my dads grandmother and other people on the Rancho still spoke and still kinda know. My uncle taught me a few words, but he said they weren't taught that language as children but they heard it spoken amongst the adults.. He grew up just outside San Miguel de Allende on el rancho del rincon. I've seen other information that says the borders and the frontiers of those nations as well as the Toltec, were protected by various Otomies. But thats a whole other subject because they're a very complex and deep rooted and often forgot part of Mexico history. He told me that and I'm probably just spelling it as it sounds but Te keesh que di, meant buen dia. I wish I could pick their brains a little more often.
@KingMacuilmiquiztli
3 ай бұрын
My grandpa was from a Nahua Nicarao community in the Tola municipality which is named after Tollan. While growing up he'd tell my siblings and I about the oral history of our ancestors who migrated from Mexico to Nicaragua in the pre-columbian era. And to add the cherry on top my DNA test traced alot of my Native American ancestry back to Mexico. As a subscriber thank you so much for the history lesson, can't wait to see more 🇳🇮👍
@AncientAmericas
3 ай бұрын
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing!
@joshharakaly4237
Жыл бұрын
WOW another episode already? As always, the effort you put into these videos is greatly appreciated. And good to see you partnering more with Aztlan Historian, it makes me smile thinking about all of the good indigenous history content coming out lately
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Here's hoping!
@cyankirkpatrick5194
Жыл бұрын
Well it's better than reality Tv🤷♀️🤦🏻♀️🤮
@AztlanHistorian
Жыл бұрын
Conspiracies, political indoctrination and all sorts of horrible biases are something we need to counter whenever possible, and I love to make my little contribution to that effort. Greetings
@RichUnclePhil
Жыл бұрын
Seeing a new video of yours pop into my feed always makes my day!
@aleksandrakaczmarska
Жыл бұрын
I love the timing. I've had Toltecs on my mind for a while now and was looking for some good literature on the topic or any good, reliable, and interesting materials and... there you are! Fantastic work, as always! Thank you! (Second time watching!)
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! If you want more material check out the bibliography for each episode. You can find it in each video's description.
@PERIDOTPIMP
Жыл бұрын
Toltecs Until The Fall Of Tula by Nigel Davies is an excellent book, synthesizes a lot of the known and written material really well
@chindimusicchannel
Жыл бұрын
Love your channel! I'd love to hear an episode about the Haida or other Pacific Northwest Coast cultures!
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
Yes! I second that! The cultures of the US Northwest into the Canadian southwest are amazing, with fascinating and illuminating values, like the potlatch. Theirs are my favorite arts (except for the Bella Coola, in truth, which creeps me out), the totem poles, the way they track their heritage (reminds me of the Aboriginals of Australia), their social structures, their reverence for the spirit world. I hope you do!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Assuming no catastrophes happen, there will be a PNW episode next year. If you have any good books or articles, please feel free to share with me.
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas If the weather holds, I will try to excavate them!
@petermoore3439
Жыл бұрын
Yey! you mentioned Nicoya. I was born about 6hrs from there, in San José. Costa Rica. I'd love you to make an episode (better a series, ha) about indigenous cultures of Costa Rica. It lends itself to be super interesting, being geographically a narrow point of encounter, like a bridge, between the North and the South of America.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I would definitely like to cover them at some point.
@jtmcgee
Жыл бұрын
Seeing one of your new videos ready to watch makes getting off work even better.
@dogewood5499
11 ай бұрын
I’ve always wondered if the word “Toltec” was just a title for groups of similar Mesoamerican tribes in central Mexico, similar to how the Huns, Mongols, Khazars, and Altaic peoples where lumped together as “Tartars”, or the many tribes of old Eurasia, particularly the ones in the east (Modern Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, etc.)
@AncientAmericas
11 ай бұрын
It's certainly possible.
@shawnparadise6504
Жыл бұрын
Your videos are amazing. The history of the Americas is so interesting.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@crusadingtemplar
Жыл бұрын
thanks for the new video dude!... I found this channel about 4 months ago. watched ALL you videos(some twice) in a fortnight and now the wait between videos is just long enough to almost forget, and then here we go!!!. the toltecs at last!! love the work dude. there's no one explains the americas better than you!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@kylesells8579
Жыл бұрын
the two ball courts had to be two different games, or subtleties in the games that we wouldn't see, but would be huge in their culture.
@pariahthistledowne3934
11 ай бұрын
I've always studied the Ancient Near East, and however fascinating that history is, i am VERY far removed from it. I live in the Americas, among MesoAmercan people, and am beginning to find their History every bit as fascinating as our Eurasian. Your Channel is a great help!
@thinkinaboutpolitics
Жыл бұрын
I love content like this, weighing the evidence we have and looking at it in different ways. Top notch stuff
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@ajrobbins368
Жыл бұрын
I was recommended this video today and discovered two awesome channels for the price of one. Thank you!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@andrewk2886
6 ай бұрын
I wonder if it’s kind of like a Mesoamerican Sparta situation. Like Tula, Sparta was relatively small but had a reputation for having great warriors which made it punch above its weight class. It never grew a large population and was culturally lacking relative to its neighbors, but had such a military reputation that it was revered by later militaristic empires to be much more than it really was. Just like how later Rome treated Sparta like a curiosity.
@AncientAmericas
6 ай бұрын
That's certainly possible.
@leesenger3094
Жыл бұрын
Ahhh!😊. You have made my day again!!! Gratitude!!!!
@carnarvonart5230
Жыл бұрын
Seems like Tollan is their version of "Lee/Leigh" a clearing in the woods, as in Berkeley, Avonlea. In fact "wick" is a farm outside of the Burg (town with walls around it) like Brunswick "Braunschweig" Brown's Oulying Farm. The fertile spot where the food comes from and society is centered.
@Numba003
Жыл бұрын
That "teaching the clay to lie" quote was a very cool way to express sculptural mastery and artistry with the material. I know very little about ancient Mesoamerica, so thank you very much for this video! I enjoy the long videos to listen to and your excellent content. God be with you out there everybody! ✝️ :)
@AncientPottery
Жыл бұрын
Excellent content. Tula was contemporary with Chaco in the Southwest.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Hoping to cover Chaco Canyon sometime in the near future.
@sittingstill3578
Жыл бұрын
Your comment about the ancient world being brightly painted is a good reminder (19:24). I found the relief featured at that time stamp to be difficult to discern the shapes and details. It would be beneficial to substitute a high contrast grayscale or researcher’s shape outline over these images so that they’re easier to understand. I appreciate all the work you put into each video and the opportunity to learn about the peoples of the Americas. It is a great service to everyone who discovers your videos.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Sorry about that photo being tough to see. I'll try to be more mindful.
@4calles
Жыл бұрын
Sorry I'm not used to comment here. Thanks for the video! It was a very instructive one and also brought me back some childhood memories. I'll likely be on the minority side here, but I'm pretty sure (no proof, no doubt) that Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl is a historized or euhemerized mythic figure. Two elements lead me to that suspicion: 1) *both* his and his opponent's name are ones of Nahua gods. 2) He disappears as the morning star - a trait of the god Quetzalcoatl. Of course I have no way to prove this, and would have to take a look a the sources, but it seems to me a clear case of historized foundation myth in which traits of historical/legendary people and some ethnographical knowledge of past societies were incorporated into an originally mythical tale (compare Romulus in Rome). But all this may just be some crazy perception of mine. Thanks again!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! There's a lot of literature you can read on that and it's really fascinating.
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas I do hope you get to their astronomical/astrological science. It really is mindblowing, both in its development, its precision, and its social and spiritusl application. There's something very quirky about having the orbit of Venus, and its phases, as the primary religious focus. Deep.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
@@grovermartin6874 I do need to make an archaeoastronomy episode at some point.
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas I will be holding my breath! A friend wrote a program/book called "Aztec" (at least, that was the name of the computer program) that had some superb delineations for the day signs. Very easy reading. There are two bits, a couple of which you referred to, like 1 Reed (the name of Bruce's publishing company, actually) and 9 something, Rain, maybe? But he got the two parts mixed up, according to the people I met from that part of the world. And they all knew their signs! One fellow, from Nicaragua, volunteered his sign, which he translated as the Wanderer, when I expressed amazement at all the countries in which he'd lived. Your videos are SO well done. And getting better and better!
@TonyfromTO
Жыл бұрын
You folks delivered! Youve got no idea how much i needed this visualization. Cant wait for more regions!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@ahmicqui9396
Жыл бұрын
Just a nitpick: There's no actual "return of the Quetzalcoatl" story that Cortez exploited. I'm really surprised you actually mentioned that myth. The video is still very well made however, can't wait for the next one!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Yeah, I debated including that in the episode but it's so well known by the public I thought I'd mention it in passing. There's a lot of debate about whether or not it was actually a thing at contact which (again) depends.on how much you trust the sources. Personally, it strikes me as a later invention. Someday when we get to the conquest, I'll go into it in much more detail.
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas Your replies are the most stimulating and educational that I've run across on the internet. It feels that we're all in a class or on a great field trip with you!
@rionthemagnificent2971
Жыл бұрын
I have a theory of why there were so many ball courts there in Tula. Maybe, like the Romans with Gladiator schools, they had areas where they trained captured warriors to play the game before heading to the large arena to be sacrificed. Though it could also be that the smaller courts weren't meant for ritual use, and were used like we would use a tennis / basketball court today.
@doyouevendab77
Ай бұрын
Is it at all possible for your mouth to close and you listen for one second?..... oh my god!!!!
@kichigan1
Жыл бұрын
So much Riqueza Cultural. Thanks for these videos. There's still Nahua speakers in El Salvador. I am a Lenca from border El Salvador/Honduras.
@chrisamon4551
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video as always! You should do one on the Hopewell Culture or Poverty Point Mounds next!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! And today is your lucky day because I already made an episode on Poverty Point! kzitem.info/news/bejne/lqGtvqGgfpSSqW0
@chrisamon4551
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas oh nice! I thought I had already watched all your stuff! But, surprise!
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas This is exciting!
@indigenouspodcast2257
Жыл бұрын
Great and informational video as always! I learned a lot about the Toltec history! I now understand what you mean on how troublesome it is to be pinned. Thank you for all the work you put into making the video! That was a really good voice describing the Toltecs btw.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Marcus!
@indigenouspodcast2257
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas you’re welcome!!!
@theogeitondasamphilochos5630
Жыл бұрын
As one from the Far east, Toltec legacies in Mesoamerica strongly reminds me of legacies of Zhou dynasty in the Far east. With great help of confucianism, Zhou dynasty of China has been always remembered the greatest dynasty in the entire Chinese history with ideal politics and society which every nation should follow, despite that, in actuality, Zhou dynasty was honestly "meh" of dynasty at the best, which originally began as local power on the edge of Chinese culture at the time and rose its hight as Western Zhou (1046-771 BC), but after moved from its original base, Haojing, on the edge of Chinese world at the time into Luoyi, which is well inside of Chinese heartland at the time as Eastern Zhou (770-256 BC), Zhou spent majority of its era as one heck of miserable dynasty (one of the most miserable in all of Chinese dynasty in fact), where it totally lost grip of majority of its territory and spent its centuries as mere puppet state which few ppl cared... The reason why Confucianism emphasize legacies of Zhou dynasty largely came from nostalgia Confucius personally had on good ol' Western Zhou dynasty, but it is undeniable that legacies of Zhou dynasty left huge impact on the Far east...
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
I am deeply impressed that you are still able to think and speak coherently after delving into such a debated and distorted quasi-history as such remnants may be after so many have mucked about in what ideas may, or may not be, Toltec. You have a strong mind!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
I almost went mad writing this episode. It was a grind.
@grovermartin6874
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas That makes sense. Good job!
@EEK112211
Ай бұрын
The thing I find funny about history is you hear historians say “records from that time are biased.” Or “this was recorded several centuries after the event in question and is unreliable.” Buuuuut, they have zero issue applying an interpretation skewed by a modern mindset, personal bias, and cultural influences to those same events several millennia after the fact and claim it’s more legit than records from or closer to that time/event. Always found that funny.
@JoeyvanLeeuwen
8 күн бұрын
Yes had this same thought recently... but at the same time it's important to remember that values about what history is plays a big factor. Modern history is about trying to figure out what really happened vs ancient history was about teaching lessons
@Almost3331
7 күн бұрын
Do you think the modern scientific method is worse off then records dictated by narcissistic god kings?
@gustavovillegas5909
Жыл бұрын
Work was rough, but this video made my day! Thanks for always delivering the goods
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Anytime!
@sysfx
Жыл бұрын
An impressive capital city is not required to make an empire. The control of commerce, trade, beliefs, technology, information, and many other things, are more important than lavish cities. a) Phoenician traders controlled the Mediterranean commerce with their trading and navigation skills. A commercial empire with a small capital. b) Gengis Kahn used a couple of technologic advances (horse stirrups and composite bows) to conquer the greatest empire ever, but his capital, Karakorum, was unimpressive. c) The English empire required but the strategies and knowledge borrowed/developed from their Portuguese allies. Both managed to control the world's commerce through maritime superiority and by conquering strategically important sites, such as fortified ports, key straits, main trading ports, and safe well located stopover ports to wait for the trade winds. London's size or luxury was irrelevant.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Exactly! Love the examples you cited!
@TaraHisakata
Жыл бұрын
Starting this Wednesday off right. Lets get educated.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
I like your attitude!
@tlatoani6396
Жыл бұрын
As an Iowan i would love to see a video on effigy mounds national monument but i think the spirit cave mummy would be more interesting
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
I need to get out there and see those someday.
@tlatoani6396
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas If you want to know more about the spirit cave mummy check out ask a morticians video on mummys she does a really good job covering the subject
@eggboi4564
Жыл бұрын
Love that everytime a new life moment happens for me I get a video from you! This time it’s a new job :)
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Congratulations! Good luck with the new job!
@lynnmitzy1643
Жыл бұрын
History is written by the victors. Super video, thank you 👍🏼
@coryfice1881
Жыл бұрын
History being written by the "victors" is baby's first deep thought. If you're an adult and you're still using that phrase you're either a teenager who's still ignorant but wants to feel intelligent, or you're a neo nazi or neo confederate.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@ridesolo846
Жыл бұрын
Would love a audio only version on Spotify to listen to while working out ☺️ love the content!
@postmodernmining
Жыл бұрын
For Whom the Bell Toltecs
@ammtool
Жыл бұрын
A timeline of the Americas compilation video would be great to see how cultures and civilizations developed simultaneously throughout the hemisphere. Recent evidence suggests we've been on the continents for much longer than previously maintained by western eurocentric archaeologists. I'd be really interested in watching a video that starts at the earliest evidence of human habitation and that travels through time and illustrates the development of various technologies, agricultural practices, architectural styles, etc.
@hlibushok
Жыл бұрын
Finally, someone smart will give us an explanation on that complicated "fake Toltec empire" debate. I guess it's _a little_ disappointing there was no Toltec Empire to rule the entirety of Mesoamerica, but we still have other Mesoamerican empires to talk about.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Eh, sometimes history isn't quite as exciting as we'd like. Doesn't mean its any less interesting though.
@hlibushok
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas Agree, it was still pretty cool learning about this long gone regional kingdom and the mysteries surrounding it.
@angelicanavarro5311
Жыл бұрын
I’m very happy to run into this video and your channel. Thank you so very much!
@allones3078
Жыл бұрын
Been waiting for this one. Thanks for doing it
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@francofazzolari7973
Жыл бұрын
would you mind doing a video on the cassava, mandioca or yuca in the future? would love to hear about more of the great crops that fueled this cultures. Thanks a lot for this videos.
@doyouevendab77
Ай бұрын
Would you just listen to me please?... oh my god!!!!!
@francofazzolari7973
Ай бұрын
@@doyouevendab77 What
@doyouevendab77
Ай бұрын
@@francofazzolari7973 will you please listen to me.. i will say one name
@jamesread4469
Ай бұрын
"Tought the clay to lie" Love that. To me I think it means when making things out of clay you make it so perfectly that it resembles a real verson of it. For example. A clay face made so perfectly that the you believe the face is real.
@funkstienn1002
Жыл бұрын
this is great stuff! any chance you'll do more on non-civilization societies in the future?
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! What exactly do you mean by non-civilization? Just want to make sure I understand so I can give you a good answer.
@funkstienn1002
Жыл бұрын
@@AncientAmericas it's a hard question to answer but basically I would define it simply as any society that doesnt have complex systems, a state, class stratification, and agriculture in combination. For instance where I'm from the indigenous people's are the abenaki and the haudenosaunee.
@Kariakas
Жыл бұрын
So much amazing detail, great job.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@oldtoby4062
Жыл бұрын
Your videos are incredibly informative! By far the most knowledgable channel on YT regarding mesoamerican history. Do you have a recommended reading list for anyone that wants to dive deeper into this time and geography?
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! The closest thing to a reading list that I have is the bibliography for each episode and you can find that in the description. Is there a specific area and time that fascinates you?
@johnholmesinchesahead342
3 ай бұрын
The Toltecs were renowned for their road-building techniques - for which they charged tolls for usage - hence the name "Toltecs".
@AncientAmericas
3 ай бұрын
nice one!
@pozzowon
2 жыл бұрын
I can't stop thinking about how ancient king names become god names in civilizations down the road. The stuff of legends throughout the centuries. Can't help but make at least a connection with the Roman kingdom and how those kings have/had some sort of legendary status by the time of Caesar, and we now have doubts about their historical validity...
@AztlanHistorian
Жыл бұрын
In Quetzalcoatl's case, the god predates the king... assuming he was a king and not a high priest. Greetings!
@DaveLopez575
Ай бұрын
I am glad I came across this channel.😊
@websurfer5772
Жыл бұрын
My ancestry is European but I do have to say that I find it sad that Europeans will wipe out whole cultures and then go and study said cultures to try to figure out what they were like before they were overtaken.
@snuurferalangur4357
Ай бұрын
Wtf did icelanders do to the toltecs? Put blame where blame belongs, europe is not home to one single group americans can claim ancestry from.
@websurfer5772
Ай бұрын
@@snuurferalangur4357 Yeah, okay, I am American and we've done our share of this too and continue to do it. I'm just trying to look at it from the point of view of the Toltecs and for them it was Europeans and I admit I happen to have European ancestry.
@santiflipinago
Жыл бұрын
big fan of both of you guys channels. Keep up the good work!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@xOwLStrikEx
7 ай бұрын
I think now the Toltec were from Teotihuacan along with other Nawa from the north and inheritored its craftsmanship, along with the other arts. This explains the cultural continuity that we see in art, culture, and military expansion. This also explains why the Mexika revered them and why we see so little in architecture.
@clo8862
Жыл бұрын
Please make a video on aztatlan and the ancient western mexican cultures those areas are usually left out by mainstream archeology and history it would be great to get your summarized reports on the cultures
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Ah yes! West Mexico is on my list and it's criminally underrepresented in archaeology and study.
@Carloshache
Жыл бұрын
You don't need a permanent empire to have a big cultural influence. The Toltecs might've been something like the classical Macedonian Empire of Alexander The Great. Alexander basically created a huge empire by conquering the whole Persian Empire - from Greece to modern day India. But after his death the Macedonian troops divided up his realm in the power struggles following. So Macedonia did not become a united intercontinental super power (their original capital Pella remained quite small even though it flourished a short while after Alexander's conquest). But the ancient Macedonians and their new off-shoot Middle Eastern dynasties did create an era of strong Macedonian-Greek influence over huge parts of the ancient world - dubbed the era of "Hellenism", with influence spanning continejnts for centuries. If you compare Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl to Alexander, Topiltzin could make sense as a semi-mythical figure. Alexander did himself claim to be the true son of Zeus and was worshiped as a god by some even in his day. He was also associated with other Gods such as Heracles or Helios. There are also several mythic legends about Alexander such as the tale of the Gordian knot. There is both the real and mythical Alexander.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Well said.
@matthewsutton3682
Жыл бұрын
Another superb video. Thank you for all the hard work
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@SleepyPotterFan
2 ай бұрын
As a historian with a speciality in the Mediterranean, there seems to be a similarity between the role of the Bronze Age cultures to the post-Dark Ages Greeks and the Toltecs to the later cultures. An idealized precursor culture that unfortunately were largely only understand through the lens of the peoples that idealized them.
@geraldmeehan8942
Жыл бұрын
Your videos are gold standard of western hemisphere history
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@gn3xu5
Жыл бұрын
Titillating tale, twisting turn of Toltec intricacies.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
10 points for alliteration.
@CeAcatl_Topiltzin_Quetzalcoatl
Жыл бұрын
Great video!!! Great partnership too haha I love seeing people working together it’s amazing and shows what we can really do.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@Acbelable
Жыл бұрын
This video is just amazing. As Mexican I am really amazing by your work !!
@tipsybass7060
Жыл бұрын
I was drawn to this because I have a tarot deck with the Toltec as the theme. I hadn't ever heard of it (until I found the deck, and it was interesting to me, and I had never heard of a reader using the cards, at least on YT, so I bought it) so thank you for making this video. I haven't put much into researching the culture, since I was researching my Egyptian deck.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@robertsiefken7587
Жыл бұрын
As always, this video was extremely well done. The uncertainty about who and what the Toltecs were is an honest, truthful accounting of what might be the case with this civilization while acknowledging the substantial uncertainties involved.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@yourownprivateidaho8262
Жыл бұрын
i absolutely love your videos. i wonder if the toltecs were their own distinct ethnic group, i. e. was there a toltec language? and are there descendants of the toltec today?
@GizzyDillespee
Жыл бұрын
If I were running for office there, I'd be descended from Toltecs, that's for sure.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. Most of what I read suggested that the Toltec spoke Nahuatl or a closely related language.
@equilibrum999
Жыл бұрын
i think they all spoketh Nahwatl
@sometime.f
Жыл бұрын
This guy is on the right track. Like he suggests the answer to this question lies deeper in the cultural history. The word tula is at the seed of this. As he said, it means place of the reed. A place where reeds grow means there is a source of water there, a source of sustenance , where game came, and the reeds that grew there could be woven into mats and houses; this was the birthplace of weaving, central life and culture. The ancestors who gave usd this legacy are remembered as the.ones.from the place of the reed, Toltecs; it is so far back in the cultural record, you're not going to find it. These are ideal ancestors. When someone says they are in tullies, they are saying they are in the tall grass, where you , pretty much, are when you go looking for the Toltec.
@igweogba6774
Ай бұрын
Very interesting channel. You are doing great work and the graphic design is simple and great
@AncientAmericas
Ай бұрын
Thank you!
@Victoria-uw4pw
Жыл бұрын
The wisdom of the ancient civilizations of Mexico and the Americas you won't find them in history books, they are heavily biased, because like you mentioned they were written post colonization to favor the colonisers and to justify their invasion that at time it was illegal by Spanish law. Toltecs were shamans with a strong spiritual wisdom behind. You find the wisdom of the Anahuac in the oral traditions of indigenous communities in Mexico, or the text written in Nahuatl.
@redtobertshateshandles
Жыл бұрын
They are what they were. Warriors of the feathered serpent. Put all the mystical, spiritual spin on it you like.
@ishrendon6435
2 ай бұрын
Ok@@redtobertshateshandles
@connormurphy683
5 ай бұрын
I would like to see a video on the history of the Nahua peoples, discussing their origin, their migrations into the core of Mesoamerica, interactions with cultures like Teotihuacan and Toltecs, and their migrations into Central America.
@AncientAmericas
5 ай бұрын
Maybe someday we'll get there!
@alexisnogueras9400
6 ай бұрын
Wow! That was a great history lesson. I did not know the Toltecs were separate from the Aztecs. 🎉
@mikekenney1947
11 ай бұрын
Spot on perspective. I’ve read these ever changing narrative for 50 years and visited some of the sites. I’m a limited guy, but still, I came away deeply confused, and perhaps misled.
@AncientAmericas
11 ай бұрын
Oh trust me, writing this episode nearly drove me insane.
@hermit7903
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for highlighting the cultural/ideological links between these nations!
@pimpompoom93726
Жыл бұрын
Another video, well done. I love your stuff!
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@oscaromana17
25 күн бұрын
Well, since the concept of Mesoamerica was given to us by Paul Kirchhoff, most of the Mexican archaeologist now don't use it indistinctively in the 4 main periods of time of the Prehispanic era, it is only aplied to the Late Posclasic, because the list that Kirchhoff made, contain characteristics that were common in the time were the indigenous groups enter in contact with the spaniards. In the regards of the origins of the Toltecas, they were the product of the northern traditions that began in the Middle Preclassic with the "Cultura de las Tumbas de Tiro", but also Chupícuaro, Chalchihuites, "Tradición de Patios Hundidos", that exists till the Late Classic, in the Northern, Bajío and Occidental regions of ancient México, those groups would mix in a time were their homelands zones were not suited for agriculture, then some migrations took place. Later those northern groups would be fusioned with the remainings of the teotihuacanos, otomíes, some of they were probably the Coyotlatelcos, that is what is theorized, based on the similarities in the ceramic, architecture and sculpture.
@peterjanson1058
Жыл бұрын
Love the videos as always. Lemme help a little with some art history perspective: "taught the clay to lie" is a metaphor for the products of the Toltec's ceramic craftsmanship being so realistic that they don't look like clay, but rather take on the appearance of their subject matter.
@AncientAmericas
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@nozrep
Жыл бұрын
always fascinating to watch and learn. And I am typing from a totally ignorant stance. But did go to Chichen Itza when I was 14 and I remember it being awesome.
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