Chaos is so hard to mess up. He is a water monster who can turn into several bosses and doesn't speak. Not a lot of room for error, except for making him a cutscene I guess.
@TheFrostedfirefly
3 жыл бұрын
"Hey you know that classic Sonic enemy that tons of fans cherish dearly and have wanted to see return for years?" "Yeah?" "Let's have him get one-shot in a cutscene to make Classic Sonic look good and never use him again."
@StarshadowMelody
3 жыл бұрын
And what that fanmade mod did.
@sayer4148
3 жыл бұрын
It really speaks for the treatment of Chaos when Speed Battle arguably does it better.
@Helicopter7
3 жыл бұрын
Ikr
@hubster3055
3 жыл бұрын
Its not even a contest. At least Chaos is physically IN Speed Battle
@mythosinfinite6736
2 жыл бұрын
Chaos went from a cutscene-only mook in the "real" Forces to a _fully playable character_ in the mobile spinoff. There's no argument about it.
@floofycupkim1197
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like zavok was unnecessary in the game, replace him with mephilise
@basilplushie2534
2 жыл бұрын
That mobile game has way more playable characters than sonic force
@makotoyuki345
3 жыл бұрын
The only thing worse than a bad game...is a boring one... *Sigh*
@sonicmaiden2871
3 жыл бұрын
Agree! Sonic 06 might be broken but at least it's not boring. I hope that the next game will be better than forces!
@theminecraft2516
3 жыл бұрын
Nah I would rather play a boring game like Rise Of Lyric over a broken furiously mess of a game like Free Riders
@makotoyuki345
3 жыл бұрын
@@theminecraft2516 actually you got it the other way around tbh Free Riders is the “boring” one and RoL is the “bad” one
@sonicmaiden2871
3 жыл бұрын
@@DerpaTure9503 I only was frustrated on the ball puzzle in sonic 06. I actually had fun playing the majority of the game 😅 But sonic forces was pretty boring for me and I barely had any fun. That's at least my opinion. There are people who like sonic forces more than me.
@theminecraft2516
3 жыл бұрын
@@makotoyuki345 Rise Of Lyric is boring and Free Riders is unplayable
@Skelekin13
3 жыл бұрын
Infinite's theme has no right to go that hard when it's for a character that is so nothing
@ryanm.8720
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps his theme was meant to show how pretentious Infinite is, when in reality he's an immature bully who's nothing without the Phantom Ruby. Also, one of the lines is "Only scars remain of who I was.", but Infinite isn't shown to have any traumatic backstory other than his encounter with Shadow (unless that's the event that scarred him).
@IBL15
3 жыл бұрын
He’s not infinite, he is nothing
@candy_ribbons
3 жыл бұрын
@@ryanm.8720 at least the IDW comics fixed him, thanks to those he’s become a favorite of mine
@jamiegioca9448
2 жыл бұрын
@@candy_ribbons Eh? Infinite doesn't even appear in the IDW comics
@thefollower2933
2 жыл бұрын
It's because they screwed up his backstory. In the prequel comic infinite lead a squad of jackals called... The jackal squad. (Very creative I know) and apparently they're mercenaries or something that went raiding eggman's base but eggman a few minutes prior found the phantom ruby, and even if he didn't know what it was, when they attacked him it spawned eggman mechs to help him out and when infinite Attacked him it showed both of them visions of... ( I don't remember what it was) and eggman punched him, knocked him on the ground and just was like "hey, why don't we team up to rule the world together?" And infinite accepted. Why am I bringing up all of this? Because later in episode shadow, before shadow beats up infinite, he says something about shadow having eliminated his squad or something. And instead of having him go nuts because his squad was anhilated. They make him go nuts because shadow called him weak. The comic also didn't explain a lot since it felt like they were really rushing through the story beats, but it was a prequel comic, and it is free online. But if you want to prove just how incompetent pontacc and graf are at writing, this is it right here. The comics had a fine setup for a villain, and they just used whatever to make him evil. To circle all back to infinite's theme, I wouldn't be surprised that those really overdramatic lyrics were probably talking about infinite, the guy who lost his friends to shadow, and not infinite, the guy that got mad over shadow calling him weak. (I know this comment is way too long for being a reply to a one year old comment but what can I do.)
@ThatOneGuyNamedLemon
3 жыл бұрын
The fact that Zabok has a boss fight and Shadow and Chaos DON'T pisses me off, what were they thinking??
@skyrailstar9923
3 жыл бұрын
Someone at sonic team ready likes zavok
@traktor420
3 жыл бұрын
@@skyrailstar9923 I think they have a fetish
@redjirachi1
2 жыл бұрын
Creator's pet
@spaceman9396
2 жыл бұрын
Zavok suuuuuuuucks
@nignamedmutt7270
2 жыл бұрын
@@traktor420 i mean.... yeah. This is sonic we're talking about. Fucking EVERYTHING has it's roots in some degenerate fetish lol
@supermousepeepeepoopoo64
3 жыл бұрын
"Sonic Forces is a game" - Chaomix 2021
@lostswamp4003
3 жыл бұрын
A bad one at that
@janusiers
3 жыл бұрын
@@lostswamp4003 no...
@skyrailstar9923
3 жыл бұрын
@@janusiers yes...
@KalokesMysteries
3 жыл бұрын
Legit thought my internet stopped the video. I got duped xD
@VirtuousAezon
3 жыл бұрын
Good job on your sonic collaboration!
@leandrothehedgehog
3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad that Mephiles wasn't a part of the final game, because it would have been a lame excuse for a comeback of the greatest villain ever made in the sonic franchise
@jet_setsonic794
3 жыл бұрын
Who?
@Isashleehere
3 жыл бұрын
@@jet_setsonic794 he’s the villain from sonic 06
@Sydney_Angelyt
3 жыл бұрын
It would mess up the canon even further.
@leandrothehedgehog
3 жыл бұрын
@@jet_setsonic794 either you live in a cave since 2005 or just joined the fandom 😂 he is the best villain ever made, main villain of Sonic the hedgehog 2006
@artistanthony1007
3 жыл бұрын
@@Sydney_Angelyt I made a comment saying it makes no sense because Sonic had Elise blow out Solaris aka the Flame of Hope so the World can come back as they were just in a fragment of an area from the erased world created by Solaris and it's revealed Mephiles is the intelligent half of the Sun God and nobody but Sonic knows of Solaris's existence which if there was then why didn't we have Time Eater bring Solaris back? Then if Infinite was able to bring Mephiles back while knowing who Shadow is then why doesn't he know of Solaris either? The Sun God saw how important Shadow was as Mephiles so Infinite could've done that but again, we don't see that happen and it's canon so you can't disagree with what I've said about Infinite.
@kunlesanders
3 жыл бұрын
Chaos 0, Shadow, and Infinite stories development are gone and forgotten forever. (sigh) All these years wasted.
@renejustinnillo3087
2 жыл бұрын
It makes you realize why are they even in the game if they barely pose a threat to Sonic and his gang in both the story and boss fights themselves.
@SONICSTA
3 жыл бұрын
this was tight! imma need to see more of yall collabing!
@makotoyuki345
3 жыл бұрын
Sonicsta? Cool! Have you been interested in doing a collab yourself?
@chaomix
3 жыл бұрын
I wanna keep collabing with Sonic Tubers throughout the year! Let's make it happen!!!
@SONICSTA
3 жыл бұрын
@@makotoyuki345 perhaps👀
@EmperorKarino
3 жыл бұрын
@@chaomix and Sonicsta working on a video together? its a dream come true.
@Laiser
3 жыл бұрын
If you’re talking collabs with SonicTubers, don’t forget meeeeeeee......
@sour_gamer_1
3 жыл бұрын
(Sonic 06) A unfinished and glitchy game (Sonic Forces) A boring "Game" That has no story. I would take a game with unfinished and glitchy game over a boring one.
@JRVChama
3 жыл бұрын
06 at least had ambition and potential, if it only had got more time... Forces just feels bland even if finished
@chaomix
3 жыл бұрын
I feel the exact same way
@quangamershyguyyz7166
3 жыл бұрын
Nah, I’d take a boring game. At least a boring game is playable.
@tiruliru1189
3 жыл бұрын
@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Forces is the same rotten sauce as '06.
@SpectroliteDS2400
3 жыл бұрын
At least 06 was fun in its own buggy way because of how fun it is to break the game in so many different ways
@nexar13
3 жыл бұрын
it's a shame cuz, Infinite's design is my personal fav amongst other characters like Mephiles the dark and Clove the pronghorn. Tho they could have change the Red for Orange just to have the distinction between Shadow but also still have the exaggerated black pallet to have visual dynamic between them. edit: also red is my favorite color but it's overplayed.
@lynxfresh5214
3 жыл бұрын
Hard agree on the last comment; we already have Knuckles as the "red" character (although Mighty technically came first lol) but then we had Shadow with his red stripes (who often has a red aura), the red burst wisps, Zavok not to mention Infinite with his red aura too (I believe the "canon" OC Buddy is also a shade of red) moreover Eggman is often associated with the red aesthetic too. Red is definitely an overplayed colour in the Sonic franchise.
@GameboyFanatic
2 жыл бұрын
@@lynxfresh5214 I prefer when Shadow’s aura is yellow. It looks nice.
@YumeDream39
3 жыл бұрын
"Sonic Forces is a game" Whoa really!?
@cliffturbo2146
3 жыл бұрын
I shoulda known.
@vinnyfromvenus8188
3 жыл бұрын
😐
@mythosinfinite6736
2 жыл бұрын
Coulda fooled me
@min2793
Жыл бұрын
nah, its a
@jimmyneutron5755
2 жыл бұрын
You wanna know what could’ve been cool? If Infinite’s motive stayed the same, and Shadow called him shallow, and then the final fight with infinite could have been played as shadow
@damara1546
3 жыл бұрын
17:54 To be fair I did read that in the original Japanese version it never mentions anything about being tortured, like the rest of the story is a mess, but that particularly seems to be a translation error
@bombs2848
3 жыл бұрын
Chaos and shadow were added only for nostalgia and then dispatched of in a cutscene. The other illusions were just there. Also anyone find it strange that illusion zavok is the only illusion that can speak and express emotion.
@artistanthony1007
2 жыл бұрын
It isn't strange, it's stupid.
@mario-oc2if
3 жыл бұрын
#getbootlegbowseroutofhere
@Cam10_84
3 жыл бұрын
Wasn't Mephiles in a draf of the Forces story a long while ago. Also i think the thing about Sonic getting tourtured was a English only thing, as the JP version doesnt mention it.
@crossfire34
3 жыл бұрын
I heard that, but I can't find any evidence to support Mephiles being there.
@evdestroy5304
3 жыл бұрын
No
@mediamuncher6982
3 жыл бұрын
Zavok is one noted why do people love him stop.
@justbny9278
3 жыл бұрын
Nobody doess!!! He's just being forced onto things cause he's recent i guess
@thunderkravenrifthound2288
3 жыл бұрын
Expectation: Expecting for a Chaos and Shadow fight Shown in game: They appear in a cutscene
@TheReZisTLust
3 жыл бұрын
The worst of Forces is that the Sonikku in Adventure 1 can turn around in mid air with a short hop but Forces Sonic can only turn with a full hop
@LyokoGem
3 жыл бұрын
I remember hoping to death that the villains were not illusions because I knew Sega would make it the most boring thing ever. The amount of disappointment I had when I saw big Metal, but I held my hope. Then the Shadow scene happened and all I could do was let out a heavy sigh.
@lynxfresh5214
3 жыл бұрын
I guess you can say your hope turned into despair... puhuhuhuhu...
@traktor420
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly the boxart really made me think that the real metal would show up, but nope.... he was just on the boxart to blue-ball me I guess
@afish2281
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe not Mephalis. The timeline was reset so Eggman might not remember. But what if instead of a Shadow hologram, it was a Shadow android. This Shadow can infiltrate bases and cause problems for the real Shadow. Plus when hit, the Android won't immediately die. This would at least be a good use of a stupid plot.
@min2793
Жыл бұрын
mephalis
@Austroid
3 жыл бұрын
Its pretty sad that the last game Metal's had any real role in, is still Sonic Heroes. That was 17 YEARS AGO! Then poor Chaos' only other major role after SA1 was Sonic Battle on GBA. Also 17 years ago! These boys deserve so much better!
@StarDragonNova
3 жыл бұрын
YEAH BEST COLLAB
@no1sonicfan214
3 жыл бұрын
Wait how did speedsupersonic get out of segas basement ?
@Losaren
3 жыл бұрын
Urgh, Sonic Forces. Nothing gets under my skin quite like this game. "Robotnik wins" is such an interesting set up. I was ecstatic when I saw the first trailer back in the day. And had the writers been willing to follow through with the darker tone, I think this could have been a real comeback for the series. Yet SOMEHOW they screwed it up. I'd have loved to see Robotnik have his big moment. Winning after 20+ years SHOULD be a big moment. They could have established him as this big threat, used Sonic's imprisonment as a chance to let the side characters shine like the heroes they're supposed to be, but no, Sonic's friends just sit around doing not much. Robotnik isn't well written, Infinite doesn't live up to his potential, the core cast are flanderized, and most of the big moments happen in cutscenes that aren't even particularly good. There's SO much they could have done with this story. I think it's pretty telling that almost every fan suggestion I've seen has more impact than the game itself. The writing is insulting, both to the characters and the fans, and it makes Forces one of very few games from this series I haven't been able to bring myself to finish. I agree with pretty much every point you two made here; "Wasted potential", "Here for the sake of being here"...unfortunately, that is exactly what Sonic Forces and its supposedly "high stake" cast of villians feels like.
@dismaltenedor3979
3 жыл бұрын
Chaos was more integral to the plot of Sonic Battle on the GBA than he was in Sonic Forces.
@prismaticseal2553
3 жыл бұрын
You know how I would of written this? (Based on theories I remember from fans before relase): 1)Phantom ruby can open gateways to other dimensions aside of creating holograms 2)Chaos comes from the world he destroys, Shadow comes from the world he allies with black doom, Metal sonic comes from the world he took over everything’s after metal madness, and Zavok is gone, he is replaced by Dark Gaia taking a humanoid appearance 3)They are all controlled to an extend believing to be working for their cause under phantom ruby 4)They get phantom ruby powers pf creating physically short lived holograms, that they can use on their boss fights 5)Infinite is a kid that has been experimented with a phantom ruby replica, the only survivor who got to use the power to its fullest but it took a mental toll making him homicidal and mad 6)The torture is alluded in some moments sonic just freezes or is unable to fight alone because of emotional paim 7)The wisps are just fuel for his robots, they come from a dimension where eggman managed to do his Sonic Colors plans 8)The last fight Classic sonic is gone, the avatar is dead and both Sonic and Shadow take Eggman down seriously apparently killing him for good and he will be gone for years to come,being replaced by a copy robot for some games and if they ever brought him back again he would come from one of the phantom ruby gates, maybe shadow or chaos world Done
@prismaticseal2553
3 жыл бұрын
Oh correction “Meta sonic from the world he won as Metal Madness” Also…Gemerl
@DeeJamari
3 жыл бұрын
The game is put together between 2 completely different buildings 10 blocks away from each other. Seems like there’s not enough communication going on in the making process. Like everyone just adds concepts, then try figure out how to put them together.
@yetravellingsonc8372
3 жыл бұрын
One thing that would have made Infinite way more interesting; Get rid of the damn mask and make him slightly less edgy. He'd still have a slightly edgy personality, but the superiority complex would be gone and he could have a bit more memorable dialogue in the long run.
@golddigginboi2187
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like his design was awesome, his personality wasn't though
@ryanm.8720
3 жыл бұрын
Alternatively, Infinite's superiority complex could've been fleshed out more so that he'd come off as less of an idiotic generic doomsday villain and more of a bully who desperately wants others to fear him so that he'd be respected, while keeping the edginess to show how vain he is. By the climax, he'd have a breakdown speech that would be similar to the speech Scourge gives in Archie Comics' Issue #196: "You know what? Forget ruling both Moebius or Mobius. I'm Super Scourge. I'll spindash both planets in half because I can. And then I'll just keep stomping on planets until I find one that gives me the respect I deserve-" "HEY! I'M NOT DONE TALKING TO YOU!"
@pyrofur_nx
2 жыл бұрын
Infinite's backstory is alternate dimension Doofenshmirtz tier ngl
@dustinbellair5822
3 жыл бұрын
Some great editing here guys! Always good for a great argument and a laugh
@Realdeal958
3 жыл бұрын
A great video. Not only do I find your videos very entertaining and even better with SpeedSuperSonic here, I also love the look of your room. The aesthetic is really nice. Keep it up man.
@tatarkhan33
3 жыл бұрын
Zavok the Sonic Bowser
@bubbykins4864
Жыл бұрын
*discount Mecha Sonic MK1
@_SYDGAMING_
3 жыл бұрын
Chaos really was so disappointing in forces they should of done the return of chaos like in the Archie comic where king sonic. And his kids take him down but have it done with the game cast
@traktor420
3 жыл бұрын
Or heck, maybe Ben have the real chaos show up and fight him, since he’s a good guy, the Archie comics had a story based in unleashed, and chaos stopped the earth from getting drained when it was split apart, do something like that instead of just blue balling adventure fans
@chrisgarbutt1893
3 жыл бұрын
Infinite could've been the next Shadow in terms of popularity if done right. Sonic team nailed his design and powers yet gave up on his backstory. Interesting enough in the prequal comics by IDW the reason Infinite hates Shadow is because he killed his entire squad during a mission eggman hired them for. Originally his name was Zero and he ran a mercenary company with his teammates names being based off of numbers. A popular alternative story people have for Infinite is giving him a redemption arc. Having the Avatar be either a member or friend of Jackal Squad and throughout the story is trying to save Infinite and return him back to Zero. If sonic team had more time to develop the game Infinite could've been a popular character.
@justmyopinion1797
3 жыл бұрын
Yep
@infinitedreamer9359
3 жыл бұрын
If you have to do homework to understand an important story aspect like what a villain's backstory/motivation is,guess what?That's a bad story! There was no reason they could've have added that into the actual game instead of leaving it to other media. SA2 managed to develop Shadow's past and motivations decently without the need for that,so what's this games excuse?
@justmyopinion1797
3 жыл бұрын
@@infinitedreamer9359 You watched that video too? That's epic
@bubbykins4864
Жыл бұрын
@@infinitedreamer9359They really should have kept to the "literally created to be an enforcer for the Eggman Empire" thing that the main game poorly indicates, and simply improve the wording of both the "was born in this pain that only hurts if you let it" backstory and the rest of the story. Better to have little past before the game than to become discount Mephiles.
@infinitedreamer9359
Жыл бұрын
@@bubbykins4864 I think your suggestion is boring because at that point,what makes him any different from Metal Sonic or any other robot Eggman's built.Like I said, all they had to do was put the comic backstory in the actual game,maybe emphasize the insecure part of his character more,and especially make sure that he shows off the Phantom Ruby's powers to make him a threat and there you go,you have a much better villain.
@cliffturbo2146
3 жыл бұрын
13:06 Best moment.
@tatarkhan33
3 жыл бұрын
When her parents aren't home: Gotta go fast When she says you will be a father:Choas Control
@EmperorKarino
3 жыл бұрын
Great video, i appreciate you trying to be unbias but dude don't tell people to down vote your work. Your one of the better sonic youtubers out there. Down votes will have the youtube algorithm push your work to the side making it harder for people to find your videos. My least favorite villain is Zavok. Its not because I dislike the character, its the opposite. They did him and pretty much all the other villains in the game a disservice. I could get more into it than that, but I don't want to do my usual giant rant comments that I do on your videos. To be fair this is already a sizable comment when I haven't done any explanations. I might make a post on the sonic reddit about it though.
@chaomix
3 жыл бұрын
Dislikes actually factor into the KZitem algorithm just as much as likes surprisingly.
@not-doubleu8430
2 жыл бұрын
thought infinite's motivation was because his jackal squad were defeated by the hands of Shadow.
@jasonblack2477
2 жыл бұрын
Wasn't in the game
@not-doubleu8430
2 жыл бұрын
@@jasonblack2477 it's in episode shadow I swore I heard (before phantom ruby) Infinite say it .
@dan_man3087
3 жыл бұрын
Actually, there's some... vague and almost non-existant hints about true motivation behind Infinite's actions, but they are so subtle and have no direct confirmation, that everything you will read below, should be considered as a head-cannon of few guys that were reading too much into Infinite. So... As i remember, Infinite was a leader in an elite group of mercenaries. And, if i'm remember correctly, other members were like a family to him. But what one of the first thing we hear when starting the first mission in Eggman's base? That all of the jackal squad was "wiped out" or something. After witch we never heard of them again And remember, that Shadow have a bad habit of destroing anything on his way. There could be a chance that Shadow went a little overboard and, probably unintentionally, caused their death. Again, it's only based on "whiped out" remark or somesuch, so it's can't be considered total proof. But that will give Infinite already a strong motive. Next(let's forget about Shadow being Mary Sue for a moment) - Shadow not just beaten, but litteraly destroyed Infinite in battle. Then - called him "weak" and just went away. Now if we assume that other members of jackal squad were, indeed, dead, Infinite's position looks very dark: someone just crushed him, killed everyone he loved, and then proceed to mock him at the death's door. After witch Shadow just went off, without even finishing the job. Without at least a mercy kill for an fallen one, like a final mockery between the lines of "you're so weak that even killing you is too much of a praise for you". When everything you know and love is gone, people, having a mental breakdown, usually either blame themselves, trying to just end this suffering... or, either, can find someone to blame all those misfortunes on, trying to prove that it was EVERYONES fault. And sometimes, those kinds of people want everyone to feel the same suffering they went through. And, actually, THAT'S the version of Infinite is the one I, personally, see as cannon. Yeah, i know that this is just a shabby headcannon, but it would fit Infinite SO well! That would actually explain many things. When anything you know and love is destroyed in front of you, when the pain from this loss is so severe, that you want everyone to feel the same pain as you do... THAT is a proper motivation for a villain. And that is what Sega taken from us. Kinda sad, don't you think?
@irishuisman1450
2 жыл бұрын
What makes Infinite's writing seem even more lazy is that his boss battle is literally just a reskinned Metal Sonic fight, with only a single new gimmick added to make it seem a little bit less like a copy. Hell, even the animations are exactly the same. Infinite had so much potential, but they completely butchered him.
@starrynight2963
3 жыл бұрын
Freedom planet did a torture scene better than sonic forces will ever do
@TheJmack90
2 жыл бұрын
Sonic Team treated the villains like they treat the Chaos Emeralds…
@rjmarshall1304
3 жыл бұрын
Infinite says that he wanted revenge on Shadow because Shadow destroyed Infinites Squad
@kunlesanders
3 жыл бұрын
the Jackal Squad from between Sonic Forces: Rise of Infinite and Episode Shadow.
@infinitedreamer9359
3 жыл бұрын
If you have to do homework to understand an important story aspect like what a villain's backstory/motivation is,guess what?That's a bad story! There was no reason they could've have added in that instead of leaving it to other media.
@Inferno144
3 жыл бұрын
I always saw Forces as 'Good ideas, bad execution' The very idea that Eggman has finally won and you need to take back the world was a great idea. But it fell flat really hard and really quickly. The Phantom Ruby was a cool idea but also executed poorly. On the point of Metal, It would have been off if he didnt show up. Metal's whole purpose is to destory Sonic, to the point of constant obsession. If Sonic's there in the game, you bet your ass Metal is there somewhere as well.
@sunflow57
3 жыл бұрын
I agree, considering Sonic never even MET Mephiles
@artistanthony1007
3 жыл бұрын
Sonic knows of the events, that's why he produces that gust so Elise can acknowledge it which Solaris gives her some fragment of him as she didn't want to go back to her miserable but she still doesnt get to fully remember after she blows out Solaris but yes in the time that they were brought back to, Sonic doesnt meet Mephiles and as we see, he would rather prefer to move on and stay happy that Elise did what he wanted, sacrifice her memories with their close friendship so everyone can come back to life as Sonic knows that was the right thing to do, she has to be happy because that's what he wants her to feel, he grabbed her hand and ran at a steady pace so she can feel more free and understand what it's like for him, I've never saw it as romance from start-to-finish, just Sonic being himself and brightening her mood which she felt more close alot like Amy but unlike Amy, none of this was for getting with him nor to date him, she does show some thoughts of having a prince but people are forgetting as royalty, princes and princesses can't date civilians which Sonic is, he does have some royal blood as shown when he's revealed to be the reincarnation of King Arthur in SATBK but not truly royal and she kept her boundaries but it still is not proof it's truly romantic as I don't see it even now when I've learned alot, having aspergers made it impossible to know but my feelings and thoughts are the same regardless.
@eSilly11
2 жыл бұрын
With Infinite's Motivation it would make more sense for Sonic Forces to be a game about Shadow
@RosheenQuynh
3 жыл бұрын
Personally, I can't really agree to Infinite being too bad of a villain (except for not killing Sonic, of course) or that his cutscene being "cringey" but that's because I wrote an entire blog on his mental health so... yeah, I'm a bit biased. I found him to be a very fascinating character. His infamous "I'm not weak!" is actually a telling line of superior/inferior complex mixed with PTSD. Sure, being defeated sounds like a lame thing to have PTSD about until you remember Infinite is as cocky as Shadow... He's a successful in his own mind so being weak naturally fecked with his head. Honestly, in a couple ways, I can relate to his struggle. I mean, he literally fought with himself, went insane... I dunno, I wish he was more established, myself.
@zombiehater6547
3 жыл бұрын
13:05 Freindly reminder that the person who wrote this thought it was a good line, sent it out to be voice acted and put into the actual game.
@noahmations1425
3 жыл бұрын
I saw that smile after you said it was a game don’t think I didn’t see that 15:34
@faidou9954
3 жыл бұрын
I still have no faither that the current Sonic Team will learn their lesson. I've accepted a long time ago that modern Sonic Ream and even SEGA see the sonic franchise as nothing more than a cash cow, plain and simple. Sure, that's easy to say on a surface level and say "*SEGA'S A BUISNESS FIRST, GAME DEV SECOND! WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?!*", but when you compare modern Sonic games to games like Sakura Wars, Yakuza: Like a Dragon, PSO2, Valkyria Chronicles 4 and other titles that SEGA treats with respect, you just can't help but see an inherent bias at SEGA and a lack of competence, creativity, and passion in Sonic Team. How much does "SEGA BEING A BUISSNESS FIRST AND A GAME DEV SECOND" really hold up?
@min2793
Жыл бұрын
sonic ream
@static669
2 жыл бұрын
6:00 They made Zavok a good menacing villain in the IDW comics but the only problem is the Sega threw the Zeti into Lost world with no backstory.
@SylumSolosEverything
2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, Shadow *did* kill Infinites entire squad. On top of that, Eggman told him to suck it up and do what his squad mates failed to do. If you had read the comics, you could say there's also the part that the deaths of his squad mates was all his fault. That much loss on top of that much pressure all at once is enough to make someone go insane.
@manboi1794
3 жыл бұрын
I agree that Mephiles would be a really cool boss, but sonic 06 isn't canon anymore, since rivals basically replaced it in the canon.
@undeadbatman9762
3 жыл бұрын
Sonic 06 is canon still. Generations brought it back.
@manboi1794
3 жыл бұрын
@@undeadbatman9762 I see your point but the game, storywise, doesn't really acknowledge that level it's really just there for fan service. It's also replaced with a sonic rush level in generations 3ds
@undeadbatman9762
3 жыл бұрын
@@manboi1794 "Everything in sonic is canon forever" - Aaron Webber. Everything in sonic is canon including the Archie verse. Only there are different incarnations of sonic.
@manboi1794
3 жыл бұрын
@@undeadbatman9762 but then in which incarnation is 06 canon? Because it's been confirmed that in the current games blaze is from rush and silver is from rivals.
@manboi1794
3 жыл бұрын
@@undeadbatman9762 even if it's canon the events of 06 were undone in the end.
@ashtonwhaley4429
3 жыл бұрын
I think it's so cool that two of my new favorite KZitemrs are in a single video together! 😆 And of course, great video! 😃
@MarioKartGamerDude
3 жыл бұрын
Funny thing that you mentioned Mephiles in this, in a script or somewhere I’ve read in the Sonic Wikia, he was originally planned to be one of the Clones!
@cinostheultimatepredator161
2 жыл бұрын
Too bad we can't go to Sega and tell them everything was wrong about Sonic Forces, maybe tweet or demand them but I'm unsure . Also I do like Mephiles to return but how can you bring back a great villain since Sonic 06 was erase and no character recall him since he no longer exist. Plus Sega say he's a one-off villain.
@DJaycerOfficial
2 жыл бұрын
How to write sonic characters correctly: go through each individual character and put their personalities together. Then make the villain with actually good backstory. The whole “I was called an idiot in 5th grade” story isn’t compelling or emotional. Try to make players relate with the villain. And if you are going with the “you’re weak” backstory, at least show that they did something to prove later on instead of magically willing power into existence. Then show how the characters interact with each other. Does it make sense? Do the characters act correctly? If so, then it’d be a good sonic game. And most importantly: Don’t waste perfectly good opportunities for boss fights against old characters with some of the easily most hatable characters in the franchise. Don’t let characters die in one hit during a cutscene. Long essay aside, these components are key to a good game in general, not just sonic games. It just so happens that sonic games need this advice the most.
@darkexe3161
3 жыл бұрын
My opinion only my opinion but Infinite can still be saved if Sega would rework on his story in a future games..
@Theonefromcrk
2 жыл бұрын
What ya need to know is,if the guy has a hundred toys of a franchise ya know he knows the best for the franchise
@LittleLexi24
3 жыл бұрын
The phantom Ruby may also be in Sonic Generations...
@crossfire34
3 жыл бұрын
Where? I didn't see it.
@LittleLexi24
3 жыл бұрын
@@crossfire34 It’s a theory that I came up with, “what if the Phantom Ruby came from the Time Eater”. The Time Eater & the Phantom Ruby can create purple-pink portals and can warp reality. The phantom Ruby could be made of the Time Eaters soul. When the Time Eater was destroyed at the end of Generations, it’s soul may have followed Classic Sonic into the new “mania dimension” and then it went into hiding inside the earth of Angel island (because the island is connected to the master & chaos emeralds) so it could turn itself from a disembodied soul to a physical stone like the emeralds are. Then in Sonic Mania, once it has manifested, it makes sure to attract Sonic & Eggman. Eggman, so a Super Sonic threat could be created and so it could turn his robots into it’s minions. Sonic, to collect the emeralds and stop the threat. If it was part of the Time Eater then it has seen everything Modern Sonic has done, including every time he has used the emeralds, so it’s soul would know how powerful they are. So it’s whole plan in Sonic Mania is to use Eggman to create a huge threat, use Sonic and the emeralds to stop the huge threat, then use the emeralds itself to chaos control a portal so it can get back to Modern Sonic’s dimension, take Classic Sonic with him and then find a pawn that’s powerful enough to kill them both, a damaged soul that didn’t want to be weak anymore... But that’s just a theory, a Sonic theory
@ceoofceos5219
3 жыл бұрын
Sometimes i think about my theory before Forces came out where I thought Infinite had the ability to go back in time and that Eggman orders Infinite to hold Maria hostage in order to strong arm Shadow into working for Eggman.
@bowserjrsoutsidestory7125
3 жыл бұрын
sonic forces should have been shadow the hedgehog 2
@ryanbourke7398
3 жыл бұрын
It also sucks that Shadow in his DLC for Forces doesn't get any bosses
@maxpendley4357
4 ай бұрын
I still can’t believe that the the trailer cast Shadow as a villain when he clearly isn’t. It felt like the writers had never even play Sonic 06.
@AmeliaPlayz
3 жыл бұрын
HOW DO YOU MESS UP CHAOS?
@KalokesMysteries
3 жыл бұрын
Well, I wouldn't say it's COLORless... (stupid...wisp...joke)
@izzytheisaiah2179
Жыл бұрын
0:41 that’s the thing with sonic enemies. The enemies may be easy to defeat but atleast they actually try to deal damage out of you by either shooting a projectile at you or swing with their arms and legs. In forces they don’t even try at all. In fact they avoid you more than actually try to attack you. But enemies are easy ti deal and get out of the way so no big deal.
@no1sonicfan214
3 жыл бұрын
Ian flynn should write the games or the other person who’s writing it also they shouldve made it so Gerald was a villain and used the eclipse cannon instead of the sun and added like 10 or more stages to turn off the cannon
@PuffyBuffy25
3 жыл бұрын
Gerald is dead.
@artistanthony1007
3 жыл бұрын
Infinite doesn't know who Gerald is and has no reason to bring him, Shadow moved on after Devil Doom and literally said "To put the past behind me! Chaos Control!" when using it as Super Shadow to transport the Black Comet so the Eclipse Cannon can destroy it, Shadow and everyone learned Gerald made it to destroy the Black Comet and they'll know he's a fake, hate it all you want but Shadow is redeemed by G.U.N. after the Last Story which ties to Sonic 06 and Sonic 06 ties to future games so it would be pointless, Gerald would be defeated before able to do anything like that because the characters see if he tries to use the Eclipse Cannon on them and what sort of battle would actually work? He's an old human man and Shadow could take him out without worrying, Last Story of Shadow The Hedgehog shows Shadow is not tied down to Maria, Gerald and his past anymore so he wouldn't hesitate to take down the fake Gerald.
@PuffyBuffy25
3 жыл бұрын
@@artistanthony1007 Don't forget how it would kinda be impossible for infinite to recreate Gerald who is way smarter than him.
@AuroraDazzle5466
Жыл бұрын
My sister told me an interesting theory and I want to share it. She said that the reason Sonic didn't attack or move away from the fake Shadow's attack was because maybe during his imprisonment, Infinite would use illusions of Sonic's friends hurting him to break him. So when the fake Shadow attacks, Sonic just froze and completely forgot he was in an open space he can dodge away in rather than a cell where even if he ran, he'd still get hurt.
@nathansos8480
8 ай бұрын
Your sister is smart.
@manboi1794
3 жыл бұрын
Speed battle is probably the best thing to come from it (I'd know I'm pretty sure I have more hours in it than all sonic games I've played combined)
@Cat.In.A.Wig.
2 ай бұрын
Wait, I just had the sickest idea. What if, during the final battle, it was revealed that Eggman had the Chaos Emeralds the whole time and used them on the clones of Chaos in order to make an army of Perfect Chaos? That would be amazing!
@tadpoleisalive
Жыл бұрын
I mean stomping in the 2-leg egg walker, laughing maniacally while entering the GUN Base was the best thing I ever played! Was it that hard for a throwback
@Super_Sonic_Plus
9 ай бұрын
Considering I paid 15$ for the game at Walmart, you know it’s a bad game
@orangehat1924
3 жыл бұрын
Sonic Forces being a "completely nothing game" and the way you delivered that line had me laughing.
@Alec11_43
3 жыл бұрын
You can literally sum up sonic forces as a disappointingly small game pretending to be a big game(for various reasons). Infinite was all hype and didn’t have any real substance to him(at least in the core game, because they shouldn’t force people to read extra material to connect the dots like that).
@WhimsicalCreature457
3 жыл бұрын
I think what’s more cringy is how some people fan over Infinite. Like… yikes. You’re telling me you’re obsessed with a character that has as much depth as a kiddie pool and as whiny as a literal child? My friend I need to you to look up the definition of “standards”, because apparently you don’t have any.
@THE_DARK_CELESTIALS_EDITZ
Жыл бұрын
The bad thing about infinite is that he had a good story but it was in a comic? Yeah is backstory was in a comic which most people did not read and that comic gave us his motivation and his backstory with I feel like Sega missed the mark in not putting that in the games.
@cofagrigusfan24
3 жыл бұрын
i don't get why people dislike Zavok just because he is *new* does not make him worthless
@mcmistle9892
3 жыл бұрын
I’m actually happy that they’re doing something with him. I might not care for him too much, but I’d rather have writers actually DO something with him instead of just tossing him away, since we always dislike it when obscure characters aren’t given second chances.
@janusiers
3 жыл бұрын
I like zavok but my faveorite One is choas!
@Sonic171K
3 жыл бұрын
Zavok is overused and not interesting. Plus I don’t like his Bowser design.
@mediamuncher6982
3 жыл бұрын
It's because his one noted
@traktor420
3 жыл бұрын
@@mcmistle9892 no, we dislike it when *good* side characters are tossed asay
@masenmeans5893
3 жыл бұрын
Geez, I'm so sick of people complaining about Zavok. We get it! He and his posse were poorly introduced cillains, with generic characterization in a mediocre Sonic game. CAN WE MOVE THE HECK ON NOW?! It's clear that whether we like it or not, Zavok's here to stay, so instead of just criticizing the fact that he exists, can we instead pull a Garrulous and start suggesting to improve his character? That way, if he HAVE to see him again, we can at least get a decently written character?
@skyrailstar9923
3 жыл бұрын
No, we just want zavok to stay out the games
@MaximumSpider19
3 жыл бұрын
@@skyrailstar9923 Well, he's not going away anytime soon, so deal with it.
@skyrailstar9923
3 жыл бұрын
@@MaximumSpider19 he can stay just not in the games
@skeleton819
Жыл бұрын
infinite was so wasted. They put all this mystery around him. Like, he seemed to be some normal person at some point but then became infinite with that little gem thing. But later there’s a bunch of clones of him in a lab? Then they just threw him away and never spoke of him again
@ftrwrwbg
2 жыл бұрын
I felt the same way with Generations. Fun game but with bringing back a bunch of iconic villains and fights from the series past it felt like a huge missed opportunity to have such a barebones story. There are barely any moments where characters even react to things such as facing off against Perfect Chaos again.
@ashbash6111
2 жыл бұрын
They LITERALLY had to make a fan made boss fight for chaos
@isinnedbye
3 жыл бұрын
First video ive watched of your channel 🔥👏
@artistanthony1007
3 жыл бұрын
The only purpose Infinite has at this point is being a plot device, mentioned and just a minuscule importance. Wish he was a Sadomasochist because his song says "The pain persists, I can't resist. But that's what it takes to be Infinite." but we finally know what Ken and Graff think about it, they're afraid and won't even try doing the Sadomasochist part in a way that's mature but still friendly, heck even the Transformation of Perfect Dark Gaia is possibly the most mature and grotesque but not making the game pull away from what it was before it or maybe more better of an example, the Transformation of Alf Layla Wa Layla because it has no censored blood or disgusting parts shown, still pretty disturbing but not as much. Now people are upset about Sonic not looking in pain or injured in Sonic Forces but I'm not really as much, Sonic saw those two Transformations, he was beaten up by Merlina ruthlessly, his lifeforce was about to run out near the end of SATSR with that curse on his chest but kept going on, he was in extreme agony when the three World Rings of Rage, Hatred & Sadness entered his body to become Darkspine Sonic and so many other things BUT that's not just it, Sonic actually heals in Sonic Battle and can create shields of energy in Sonic The Fighters so it makes sense he might've healed while in his cell which isn't said but as I just revealed, he has been in countless moments of trauma & pain and has things to keep him alive and in perfect condition while and after tortured.
@joxyver
2 жыл бұрын
It’s actually been proven that the creation of Zavok was for the sole purpose to basically be Sonic’s “Bowser” villain, and you can tell by the design of it. Funny thing is it seems Sega is pretty forgetful about the fact that they already did that (and the fans made it very clear) that it’s DOCTOR IVO “EGGMAN” ROBOTNIK. The fans (at least the ones with common sense and a sense of what is a good villain) made it very clear that they do not like Zavok and never will like Zavok as a villain and yet after all these years it’s funny how they still include him in stuff like spin off sonic games and even the comic book series. I hope that the new game has nothing to do with that sorry excuse of a villain because I am gonna say this right now as my personal opinion, I liked infinite as a villain more than Zavok, always have and always will. Also it’s a shame that Infinite didn’t turn out great because the voice actor for him (Liam O’brian by the way is his name) is such a great guy and honestly is one of two good things about Infinite, the second being the character’s design.
@mariosucks1016
3 жыл бұрын
i mean, shadow also murdered his whole team, but eh, that's just fluff.
@bluerious5475
3 жыл бұрын
He murdered his whole team but it isn’t even brought up in the game at all. It’s practically irrelevant.
@joshwillcox7141
3 жыл бұрын
The sonic being tortured was a mistranslation I heard
@themaincharacter4985
4 ай бұрын
The bosses of Sonic Forces being defeated in quick cutscenes shows the laziness
@giovannigarcia1037
3 жыл бұрын
To be fair, Shadow did murder Infinite's entire squad
@dan_man3087
3 жыл бұрын
Interestingly, there's some hints that Infinite is dead after the Forces story.
@litespead
3 жыл бұрын
I absolutely HATED the way they used the villains in Forces, i hated it so much that I did a bunch of rewrites, Where Zavok is not in the game, Fake Shadow is not in the game, there's army of Metal Sonic's patrolling the city's for resistance members, Chaos is the REAL Chaos and he's here to help Sonic with Tikal. I had a ton of fun rewriting Infinite, in terms of personality, he's a psycho that treats everything like a game, because of his reality bending powers, he feels like he can't loose, he's constantly laughing and toying with his enemies, but will start to get confused and scared if he's loosing. Why is he evil? Well, in this continuity Infinite is the Phantom Ruby. 8000 years ago, Chaos was the guardian of the Master Emerald, Chaos emeralds and the Phantom Ruby, everything was going normal until Chaos found out that the Phantom Ruby was alive, and Chaos knew how dangerous a sentient gemstone with enough power to hurt Super Sonic would be, So he seals it inside of Angel island, thus giving Chaos a reason to be in the game and Infinite a proper reason to be evil, and hey it even answers the question of why the Ruby was there in the first place
@infinitedreamer9359
3 жыл бұрын
That's a lot better and I wish Sonic Team had done something similar to this.If you had to bring Chaos back,him being a villain after SA1 doesn't make sense,since the reason he was one was solved in the final battle. With Eggman being a threat to Earth, and by extension,the Chao,it makes more sense he'd team up with Sonic and his friends.
@tomigunzochar6735
2 жыл бұрын
at the infinite part i liked the infinite theme playing at the background
@crossfire34
3 жыл бұрын
I hate Infinite so much. I can't believe they made a character worse than The Deadly Six.
@Sonic171K
3 жыл бұрын
I also hate him and can’t stand his design either.
@bleakburd4965
3 жыл бұрын
I still think The Deadly Six are the worst Sonic villains we've ever got. Infinite may have been a disappointment but if he was done right, he would fit in the Sonic universe. The Deadly Six on the other hand are just lame discount wannabe Koopalings.
@skyrailstar9923
3 жыл бұрын
Infinite sum up is “I was a bitch back then but I’m edgy now.”
@tatarkhan33
3 жыл бұрын
I wish Zavok was not added in whatsoever
@JaySurf27
2 жыл бұрын
shadow bullying infinite is hilarious
@orbidyt7863
3 жыл бұрын
Too bad classic sonic can’t speak because he technically witnessed the power of the phantom ruby in sonic mania
@espurrseyes42
3 жыл бұрын
Mephiles doesn't exist anymore, remember.
@SayoriChan640
3 жыл бұрын
See not even infinite a dude who has a terminator mask was threatening, In Sonic 06 at least the villains in that game were threatening!
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