"An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity." -Terry A. Davis
@chudchadanstud
4 ай бұрын
You misunderstood him. The person who admires simplicity because he understands the difficulty of the problem is the genius. I would love to see how Jia compares.
@kuklama0706
4 ай бұрын
A realist admires salary
@michaelstekrt8031
4 ай бұрын
the most powerfull sentence of our time
@Don_XII
4 ай бұрын
@@kuklama0706 real big brain here
@byebeybyebey
4 ай бұрын
"so grug say again and say often: complexity very, very bad"
@shadow_vertex
4 ай бұрын
That's not programming, it's cable management!
@ecranfortessa
4 ай бұрын
Good one. xd
@Don_XII
4 ай бұрын
Lmao
@tanko.reactions176
4 ай бұрын
i have seen cable management. capable management can be beautiful. this is not cable management. this is lack of cable management.
@batatanna
4 ай бұрын
Cable mismanagement @@tanko.reactions176
@paulywalnutz5855
4 ай бұрын
it looks like my cable management anyway
@calebfuller4713
4 ай бұрын
I've never seen the phrase "spaghetti code" represented so literally before!
@hexarith
4 ай бұрын
You should check out the average "grown" LabVIEW program, that's running an experiment that went through the hands of 3 generations of PhD grad students and their respective undergraduates. THAT is the true form of spaghetti code.
@tx7300
4 ай бұрын
open source dev: read the docs the docs:
@InternetUsername
3 ай бұрын
My thought exactly dealing with Xorg.
@Dzatoah
3 ай бұрын
i dont like it, but its true...
@Th1200
3 ай бұрын
The docs:
@C4CH3S
3 ай бұрын
My experience trying to setup neovim
@sullivan3503
3 ай бұрын
I don't really understand the point being made here... Vanishingly few docs have useful graphics, but they're important. What are we even looking at in this video, an OOP command flags parser? For OOP, a graph like this is actually useful.
@tetraquark2402
4 ай бұрын
Someone somewhere is very proud of that graph
@InconspicuousChap
3 ай бұрын
Only if they have seen it. Which is unlikely because idiots never view their creation as a whole.
@sub-harmonik
3 ай бұрын
I mean idk if I could do the paths that well (to go around other objects and stuff) but I'm somewhat of a noob
@AlfaToTheOmega
3 ай бұрын
Someone spent 5 seconds configuring a plugin to autogenerate dependency graphs. More time was spent criticizing it here. It's still readable enough and it'd take more time handcrafting pixel-perfect graphs than you'd save because of better readibility. Plus, you'd risk people forgetting to updating the graph to reflect reality. Moreover, a lot of "dependencies" here are just basic utility types like "string", so we can't really conclude from this graph that this solution is overly complex (as some other comments suggest).
@karmatraining
4 ай бұрын
Imagine how much time they must've spent getting rid of recursive references
@HollywoodCameraWork
4 ай бұрын
Yeah, it's weird they even managed to compile it.
@OskarNendes
3 ай бұрын
They did not
@bananesalee7086
4 ай бұрын
what a decade of "clean code" gurus does to ya
@junosoft
4 ай бұрын
I guess reading clang llvm-ir output is way, way easier than figuring out any of this.
@ctxz9580
4 ай бұрын
True, i learned LLVM IR by writing small c snippets and converting them to IR. So much easier.
@junosoft
4 ай бұрын
@@ctxz9580I did the same too
@supernewuser
4 ай бұрын
I wonder if he realises the llvm guys didn’t write doxygen or graphviz
@oncetwice6366
3 ай бұрын
Not relevant
@seriouscat2231
2 ай бұрын
What makes you think he doesn't?
@Optimus6128
4 ай бұрын
When you write a single line of goto: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE That's Horrible Programming, cause it breaks the flow When people write things like that: Everything is fine, that's expert software engineer right there!
@bossgd100
4 ай бұрын
exactly lol
@etodemerzel2627
4 ай бұрын
I've seen colleagues act disgusted when they see a medium-sized if-else-if chain... Feels like I'm working with professional cargo cultists.
@chudchadanstud
4 ай бұрын
Don't ever use goto, like ever. They are unscoped loops.
@starc0w
4 ай бұрын
@@chudchadanstud This statement contains too much dogma. There are definitely a few situations where it can make sense to use goto. And luminaries like Kernighan also confirm this.
@chudchadanstud
4 ай бұрын
@@starc0w There has never been a situation when it makes sense to use goto. Use a switch case, for/while loop, recursion functions etc. You have no reason to use them. They don't exist in Jia too. JB hates them too.
@thomassynths
4 ай бұрын
f you take this as him complaining about diagram generation, I get his point. If his argument is about the actual header dependencies, I mean who actually cares. It's meaningless. I bet it's mostly due to using lots of forward declarations to save on rebuild times. Remember, LLVM is a huge project that takes forever to rebuild.
@HollywoodCameraWork
4 ай бұрын
I feel like the point of forward declarations is to cut down on includes, not tricking the compiler into accepting mutual and circular dependencies. It's a trick that's only available because .h files exist and need some help to not be hogs.
@minhuang8848
4 ай бұрын
yeah, sanest take in here
@sajti812
3 ай бұрын
Yeah, feels like he conflates mediocrity of the visualization tool with the codebase itself.
@Erik-cl5ff
3 ай бұрын
@ndy-dp1bh I honestly don't get people like you, or the guy in the video. I mean---He is literally the irony of his own video. He is complaining about mostly meaningless shit without providing any context. I worked on massive projects like these and eventually, if you run it through a dependency graph generator, you will end up with something as ugly as this. I don't know how about YOU, but from the video itself I can't even make out the details of the dependencies and without any in depth analysis it is very naive to claim that it is a "mess" that can be outright simplified. As far as there are no cycles and the dependencies are inverted---It is not a problem. Even if you are doing redundant includes, the compiler will optimize that away.
@gudrungunzelmann
4 ай бұрын
Usually when I come around such representations I remember my early code architecture curses from university: If you have crossing lines (which where actually not allowed in my UML course) it's under-abstraction. If you have graphs with many nodes down the line, it's over-abstraction. Here we have both :D
@SurrogateActivities
4 ай бұрын
rare jblow laughing moment
@zhulikkulik
4 ай бұрын
I just had some pizza, but this made me want to make spaghetti 😋
@IkeFoxbrush
3 ай бұрын
I might be wrong, but isn't this (autogenerated) diagram just an #include hierarchy of a C++ header file? The file includes five other header files, also listed in the top left corner, among others vector and string. These typically depend on some more headers themselves (often times the same ones), so you get a rather dense dependency graph. Doesn't necessarily mean the underlying code is bad. Otoh, this kind of representation isn't particularly helpful either. And yes, #includes are a rather crude and outdated mechanism, basically recursively copying pieces of text into your compilation units. This is programming like 40 years ago, and brings some serious problems. That's why modern C++ offers modules as a replacement.
@MightyAlex200
3 ай бұрын
yeah, and the url is clearly visible in the video. im not sure why more people didnt check. its a stupid graph but it doesnt speak at all of the code quality. maybe people are just looking for a reason to get mad
@sullivan3503
3 ай бұрын
@@MightyAlex200 How is it even a stupid graph? Because the indegree of some of the nodes is a bit high? Many graphs of such complexity that they are actually useful is bound to have an indegree like that!
@Erik-cl5ff
3 ай бұрын
100% agree with you. This video is an irony of the exact thing he is complaining about. Holy hell.
@Erik-cl5ff
3 ай бұрын
@@TootNZ Fully agree with you.
@chromosundrift
Ай бұрын
I check the URL but the graph does not automatically show. How do I get that graph to appear?
@alexandersuvorov2002
4 ай бұрын
When I see complex and obscuring documentation like this I just do things my own - documentation should help, not to confuse. Though, if it was “my boss wants this to work” I’d be fucked. There’s a lot of software out there which is hyped like crazy with awesome demos, but when you want to do something specific to your environment you just get stuck with no help. In old good days it was just pure math and computers. Rock solid. You learn the math and just code it into computer. These days it’s about hype, loads of confusing abracadabra terminology and “duck you!” minded documentation.
@dumbfailurekms
4 ай бұрын
relax buddy you were what? 4 yrs old during the old days
@Muzzleflash1990
4 ай бұрын
There is nothing obscuring about it. In fact, people are accusing it of the opposite, of showing an include dependency graph - giving more details they don't feel they need or is useless. If you go read the auto-generated reference documentation then don't be surprised you find reference documentation. Which almost always implies that only parts of it will be useful because usually you only to the reference looking for specifics. Admittedly this is not a pretty (auto-generated) graph, but for any C++ developer it obvious what it is (since it says next to it). If one is perusing the *reference documentation* and *not* looking for an include graph then one wouldn't bother spending time on it. Blow spent more time laughing on this than there most likely ever was spent CPU time on generating the page. I don't know the context from this clip. But if the idea was to learn how to use this Command Line API, then one does not go the reference documentation, but rather documentation actually meant to teach usage, like llvm.org/docs/CommandLine.html#quick-start-guide .. (okay, probably not command line, but codegen flags, but then reference doc is generally the last and not first place to go).
@thewhitefalcon8539
4 ай бұрын
This documentation was produced by people whose job is to make documentation look impressive.
@alexandersuvorov2002
4 ай бұрын
@@dumbfailurekms That “new school” of programming started like 10 years ago or something. Most of it is just extreme hype over some basic concept or idea. And obviously documentation is not there when you want to do something complex beyond glorified demos. I figured out just to do things my own way with barebones programming language - it’s faster and stress-free. Shitty libraries and documentation is not my problem.
@alexandersuvorov2002
4 ай бұрын
@@thewhitefalcon8539 There is so, so many shitty production code out there just because dev’s were not able to figure out how to use certain platform ans just “patched” things together and released just to get this shit off their shoulders. This is modern day programming, nobody cares about quality, the code is barely operational.
@jfftck
4 ай бұрын
This is LLVM, it’s known for being complex. I believe the complexity is stemming from supporting so many OSs that everything has been abstracted to a degree that most of us should never see. I wonder if this is following clean code principles, that also could be why it looks like this.
@trejohnson7677
4 ай бұрын
ya its not a bs platform game u can shit out on godot these dayz lel.
@Kevzz2srs
3 ай бұрын
people dont recommend clean code principles anymore, most of the advice is terrible
@KunjaBihariKrishna
4 ай бұрын
I recently got into programming as a hobby, and when I make little apps for my own use, I don't really care how messy the code is. If it works, then I'm happy, and after a while I get the urge to improve it. I enjoy the process, but ultimately it would be a huge pain for anyone other than me to deal with it. I wonder if what's happening in the code world is that people refuse to care about the bigger picture, and just put their nose down on the specific task they want to accomplish without regard for how it will work for others
@kattihatt
4 ай бұрын
Thats not my experience, but i guess youre free to speculate on things you know nothing about.
@cristianstoica4544
4 ай бұрын
Not to that degree but it does. You will find people that submit pull requests with a few changes and each change mixes in something that they forgot to do earlier in the same PR. If you tell them to combine and simplify the PR they will look at you funny. They don't know what purpose the git history has in understanding the reason for a change and write crappy commit messages for thousand line diffs. They don't care about 'craft' and we all know a little how it feels. Mind you, I'm using the same approach to write crappy changes as I go along. But when I'm done, I clean up my mess even if it's for my own eyes.
@ifstatementifstatement2704
4 ай бұрын
Code should be periodically refactored like you do with your small projects. But with large projects where you have multiple programmers with varying degrees of design pattern knowledge and style, it becomes very difficult to do that. And to go through a codebase that large to refactor will take way too long. Time that no company will allow you to take. They'd rather have you work on projects that other clients are waiting for.
@ifstatementifstatement2704
4 ай бұрын
@@cristianstoica4544 yeah I always clean up. I cannot stand leaving code in a mess, for my own sanity. And I try to be as detailed as possible in my commit comments to explain the reason for why something was implemented or refactored in a specific way. I try to leave comments that I would have liked others to have left for me.
@wolfumz
4 ай бұрын
Software developers are paid a lot of money to not do this
@user-mv4oh8yp1y
3 ай бұрын
Oh Jesus they built a NEURAL NETWOKR!
@sprytnychomik
4 ай бұрын
It's like having a separate header file for each declaration or define (which, btw, should be accessed only via microservice or, in a worst case scenario, singleton).
@oren2234
3 ай бұрын
microservices and singletons, found the OOP corporate slave
@MenkoDany
4 ай бұрын
Am I the only one that thinks the blow fan channels are copying each other
@ericng8807
4 ай бұрын
they definitely are
@limarchenko96
4 ай бұрын
Yeah, I saw this same moment two times already. I even copied my comment from one of those videos here.
@BufordTJustice42069
4 ай бұрын
Naw, they all seem to be copying the same friggin guy.
@docmars
4 ай бұрын
Hey now, no consthpiracy theories allowed! ☝💢
@MenkoDany
4 ай бұрын
@@BufordTJustice42069 Wordcel
@liquidsnake6879
3 ай бұрын
It's not just "look at the documentation" in this case, it's reserve a whole week, prepare various jugs of coffee, get a notepad and a pen, and plow through this nonsense we've left you
@jonathanmoore2139
4 ай бұрын
Literal spaghetti code
@ozzymandius666
3 ай бұрын
It's the Lorentz Attractor!
@togofar
3 ай бұрын
I'm actually not sure if he's complaining about the people who created the content of the graph or those that implemented how it's rendered... or is it both?
@BramStolk
3 ай бұрын
THIS! He is shooting the messenger. He must mistakenly think that the llvm project wrote the graph visualizer. Doxygen and graphviz are great. Jon does not get it.
@hmmmidkkk
2 ай бұрын
Now this is REAL speghetti code 😂
@om3galul989
4 ай бұрын
That's horrible cable management.
@Mjjn74
Ай бұрын
It looks like the milky way.
@bitskit3476
4 ай бұрын
John's reaction on the graph reminds me of this discussion I had with my roommates the other day. I'm in electrical engineering, one is in industrial engineering, one is in chemical engineering, and the fourth is in biological engineering. One of them made a joke that if we combined our collective brainpower, we might be able to solve a three-body diagram. I legit went into an almost 10min long fit of laughter.
@heliumcalcium396
4 ай бұрын
It sounds as if you could write a lot of good jokes with that premise. Have the four of you ever gone fishing? Or rock-climbing? Or tried to assemble IKEA furniture?
@shroomer3867
3 ай бұрын
Please tell us what happens when you four enter a bar
@Powerofthepickle
4 ай бұрын
lol did they delete it after this? I don't see it on the page
@Casgen
4 ай бұрын
I think so, i dont see it too. You can see it in the wayback machine though
@BlowFan
4 ай бұрын
I actually had to use Wayback Machine in order to find it. I wanted to use it for the thumbnail. It's those blue lines in the thumbnail.
@AbelCableTV
4 ай бұрын
it's drawing time
@RNMSC
3 ай бұрын
It almost looks like they were attempting to represent code as a wiring diagram for a neural net, and forgot to color code the wires.
@extantsanity
4 ай бұрын
I totally get the general sentiment that this spaghetti stuff is unreadable, but his laughing isn't illuminating or productive. Worse, it remains entirely possible (however improbable) that there is a lot of wisdom in the diagram that just hasn't been explained properly through the documentation. This reminds me of a TED talk where Eric Berlow shows how you can drastically simplify a complex food chain in an ecosystem by focusing on "nodes of influence" -- that is, by both grouping similar vectors and then prioritizing the ones which have the most impact. My favorite line is at the end: *"[What we found is] the more you step back and embrace complexity, the better chance you have of finding simple answers -- and it's often different than the simple answer you started with. So, for any problem, the more you can zoom out and embrace complexity, the better chance you have of zooming in on the simple details that matter most."* kzitem.info/news/bejne/tnhoz42whJeWnW0si=kG_Vu6CsEG2sthv0
@bugothecatplays7864
Ай бұрын
When Jonathan started laughing manically, I thought of a crossover with Terry from TempleOS for some reason. I'd think of Terry's voice asking "is that programming *slur word*" and "they glow in the dark". There is something about being the outcast criticising the whole software industry on how they do stuff and you doing things in your own way while laughing hysterically on how things have become.
@vladalex9556
4 ай бұрын
his laugh 😂😂😂😂
@alejmc
4 ай бұрын
Exactly hahah, I couldn’t help but join in. Legit laugh.
@pvc988
4 ай бұрын
Graphviz hell. BTW. This is not that bad. Have you seen diagrams generated by Yosys?
@salim444
Ай бұрын
"a picture is worth a thousand words" well a messy diagram is worth a thousand spaghetti sauce
@sergrojGrayFace
3 ай бұрын
"An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires -simplicity- a good laugh." -Terry A. Davis
@imjustsaiyan7450
4 ай бұрын
Last time I made something that looks like that my cheap biro was refusing to work.
@KunjaBihariKrishna
4 ай бұрын
The tofudreg of information technology
@ItsFuckinLoona
4 ай бұрын
junior game programmer here, and I do this. matter of fact honestly mine are worse. Can someone kindly explain what i should do instead? I just, when I write state machines I want to know the complex ins and outs of which states transition to which states, so i am not just going in blind and messing up the extremely important order of state change logic.
@TheGalantir
4 ай бұрын
You shouldn't do anything else instead, this video is just about ego and pretending to be better than others. These are the types of graphs you get when you follow clean code principles. Some who pretend to be better than other say you have to follow clean code guidelines and other as we can see here say you shouldn't. At the end the only result that really counts is if it works and performs, that's all your future boss will be interrested in, he couldn't care less about the rest.
@dawidkotlinski
3 ай бұрын
Why model a state machine with classes
@TheGalantir
3 ай бұрын
@@dawidkotlinski Nobody, don't try to be smart. Try learning to read the entire text since you clearly did not understand it and chose just one word out of the entire text and responded to that one word. That is exactly the same as randomly shouting pancake. It makes no sense.
@equalent
3 ай бұрын
@@TheGalantir couldn't agree more. 95% of "tech influencers" are all about that. one of the most complex c++ projects available online, Unreal Engine, is way worse than LLVM in terms of headers and code complexity in general. yet I don't see it failing because of it
@OskarNendes
3 ай бұрын
For state machines you have to write the states interpreter and them just create tables of rules. This is how they have been written since 1980. There is nothing to mess, not even code to write.
@patrykcelinski2413
4 ай бұрын
They never heard about Miller rule that humans can focus on 7-10 things at time. For IT/CS people it implies that a single diagram should never have more than 7-10 components or the client or your team or whoever that you explain system to may have problems of understanding it. Always split huge diagram into small ones.
@poutineausyropderable7108
3 ай бұрын
Who's THEY. WHAT'S THE CONTEXT!
@MalushJ
3 ай бұрын
where is the meatballs and the tomato sauce?
@Seacle14
2 ай бұрын
I think it's sort of cute than Jonathan named his PC "Warrior".
@peezieforestem5078
4 ай бұрын
Where is the end music from?
@peezieforestem5078
4 ай бұрын
Nevermind, I found it: It's the Beginner's Guide OST - Lecturing.
@OJeyjunior
4 ай бұрын
the thing about that flowchart is either programing is WAY simpler than that OR 100 times harder... depending on your level of detail... they missed both
@guxershmeg
4 ай бұрын
I calculated only about 60 objects. Not so complicated compared to our projects. We have like 7 stages inheritance chains.
@MrSongib
3 ай бұрын
This visualize what happen in my brain and trying to make it simple to communicate visually, is more of that on top of it. XD
@shroomer3867
3 ай бұрын
"AI will replace us!" What AI code will look if it were unchained without little to no programmers:
@lepidoptera9337
Ай бұрын
AI code will look much, much worse. AI will, for instance, constantly invent new communication protocols. Instead of standardizing, it will constantly obfuscate.
@kuklama0706
4 ай бұрын
I disagree on merging arrows before them going in. Also I would make all the path go in straight angles.
@SaHaRaSquad
4 ай бұрын
Unfortunately graphviz is only optimized for speed and not nice-looking graphs. To a degree it's understandable because good-looking graph layout with nice angles and minimal edge crossings is a very complex problem but it would be really nice for situations like this one.
@user-hz4tc2pf3x
2 ай бұрын
This one really got him 💀
@greycell2442
4 ай бұрын
Not even docs. I'm gonna need you to make one of those wizard step thingies. The manpage is like 4gb
@paxcoder
3 ай бұрын
Do we think a graph like this wouldn't be generated for this man's code?
@sullivan3503
3 ай бұрын
Facts. Any useful software project is likely to have a dependency graph of this complexity.
@AloisMahdal
3 ай бұрын
I think the point is that *he* would not choose to generate it. But sure, the complexity of the code here might not be the real problem, it's how this "bad attempt at a ball of threads" is not helping anyone. (Except Jon to have a good laugh.)
@Newtube_Channel
4 ай бұрын
Oh it is programming. Spaghetti code of the highest order.
@juha-petrityrkko3771
4 ай бұрын
I solve problems like this with my homemade software that creates zoomable, rotatable colour-coded 3D connection models. It has arrow merging, too, if the 3 dimensions are not otherwise sufficient to facilitate legible geometries.
@rafael_madureira
28 күн бұрын
The best Jon's video EVER 😂
@alexkuhn5078
4 ай бұрын
"it would still be unreadable, but it would be less unreadable"
@robrick9361
4 ай бұрын
I guess Jon Blow doesn't like spaghetti.
@-Engineering01-
4 ай бұрын
Keep this channel active bro pls !
@noobdernoobder6707
3 ай бұрын
True. Merging arrows sounds like serious programming. And not that shit we see here.
@ArtoPekkanen
4 ай бұрын
This is why I hate many highly advertised/popular software ... libraries, frameworks, you name it. Many big name doodads have garbage documentation, auto generated mess plus a few "cookbook examples", and when you cannot fucking get productive trying to follow that shit and ask around, you get told you are stupid. Why cannot we have proper documentation that contains actual prose explaining the semantics, and not only list APIs with comments? Maybe too much to ask goddamn.
@SheelByTorn
4 ай бұрын
no way! it's LLVM?! 😂😂😂
@alfonzo6320
Ай бұрын
you should link a tutorial on how you would fix that.
@Mike.Garcia
4 ай бұрын
that's what dogmatic belief looks like
@danutmh
4 ай бұрын
In squiggly lines we trust.
@stephenkentperez7705
3 ай бұрын
Knees weak, arms are heavy...
@callisoncaffrey
4 ай бұрын
I see Windows, I leave.
@p99chan99
4 ай бұрын
Isn't visual programming a thing? instead of writing code you connect a bunch of nodes together? kind of like Scartch, Unity, or Unreal Engine?
@recursiv
3 ай бұрын
Yes, and some of it is bad, just like some text-based programming is bad. This graph technically contains a lot of information, but none of it use usable for a human.
@terryriley6410
3 ай бұрын
When writing code you connect a bunch of characters together. It isn't all that different. The good thing about node based is that syntax errors doesn't exist, the bad thing is that nodes and wires take up a lot of space. In the future we will have a middle ground, a code editor where you will be able to write code without the ability to express either syntax or even type errors.
@oscarsmith-jones4108
3 ай бұрын
Visual programming is a thing but it is normally a very bad idea because it leads to confusing spaghetti like this. The only reason to use visual programming is if you don't understand text. It's generally much quicker to type than it is to draw the same thing (and you can fit more on the page when it's typed). This video isn't about visual programming though, just a diagram of the codebase.
@FizzleStudiosLtd
3 ай бұрын
Love it or hate it this is how young people are being exposed to programming (i hate it). Programming used to be done by punch cards. It's one positive trait is that it is a decent way to explore concepts with minimal syntax with immediate visual cues. Whether or not this type of programming has merit or not is irrelevant; Young people are using these tools.
@thedopplereffect00
4 ай бұрын
Basically every project I've ever been on :(
@miikavihersaari3104
4 ай бұрын
The LLVM team has been real busy! 🤣😂🤣😂
@llothar68
4 ай бұрын
No thats the whole point of it. They use unintelligent artifical intelligence to save time. That the result is just worth nothing is a sympthom of modern software development.
@SaidMetiche-qy9hb
4 ай бұрын
LLVM use Ai? where did you hear that@@llothar68
@Apocobat
4 ай бұрын
Bad documentation has got to be something you get judged for at the pearly gates
@LosManexStudio666
4 ай бұрын
Bad documentation on what? The programming language he hasnt done yet and which is in closed beta? Yea right, he should definetly focus on docs right now, very important
@nanimo_null
4 ай бұрын
"It would still be unreadable, but it would be less unreadable" Interesting
@zanagi
4 ай бұрын
That laugh was so funny lol
@killazaawl
3 ай бұрын
i don't consider myself a programmer, however, i had to correct code of people that i consider less experienced & knowledgeable. one of the quirks i came across was they constructed loops by goto/jump, and got lost track of.. everything. i'm pretty sure an execution visualization would look something like this.
@lepidoptera9337
Ай бұрын
Your computer doesn't have binary instruction codes for "for" and "while". It's all branch instructions, i.e. "goto". If you are still at the level of "OMG, there is a "goto" in the code, so it's all evil", then you don't understand what is really important.
@killazaawl
Ай бұрын
we're not writing assembly. i'm complaining about chucklefucks placing code blocks only accessible by jumps at random places then not being able to read and debug their own mystery soup after it's not working. go patronize someone else.
@LargeTurn1p
4 ай бұрын
2:15 "You do not understand the whatever whatever factorialization of the subclass..." eminem been real quiet since this one dropped
@stevecarter8810
4 ай бұрын
This is what happens when you give graph viz dot any kind of complexity to render. Useless for visualising the graph, ironically
@vasiovasio
4 ай бұрын
Spaghetti in a Nutshell! 😂😂😂
@fk3239
4 ай бұрын
I don't know what's going on here, who Blow is, or why this is in my recommendations, but man I do know I could go for some spaghetti right about now.
@sergiofitch4378
3 ай бұрын
I appreciate the 40 seconds laugh
@acetylslicylsyra
4 ай бұрын
Would love to get Jonathans opinion on labview as a programming language.
@nirosolis485
4 ай бұрын
Labview, I haven't heard that mentioned since 2008. If I remember correctly, that's a visual based "language" right? Was it nodes? My memory is so fuzzy.
@acetylslicylsyra
4 ай бұрын
@@nirosolis485 Yes, you program something that like circuit boards by pulling wires between function boxes with input/output connectors. I find it decent for some applications but rapidly becomes unmanageable spaghetti as complexity grows.
@niggacockball7995
4 ай бұрын
@@acetylslicylsyraahh so like blender
@radzdahound3099
3 ай бұрын
For real! I was on a robotics team as a teen, and they used LabView for programming the robot. I disliked it so much! It wasn't "hard" or anything, but it was so "write-only"; you could add code to it easily, but good luck reading that code later! I found it to be so unpleasant, that I ended up learning how to develop android apps and how to do networking instead, and developed an app that let our team collect data on all of the other teams during a competition, which got synced back to a "master" tablet via bluetooth (we weren't allowed to use a LAN as it could interfere with the robots). We used that data to make an informed decision about which teams to work with during the final rounds. I found all of that to be easier/more fun, just because you got to use a real programming language instead of LabView!
@vladinosky
4 ай бұрын
This is what happens with graphviz dealing with CMake dependencies hell
@jamesclark2663
4 ай бұрын
Looks like the documentation graph for SAP.... not even joking.
@SquigglyP
4 ай бұрын
What the hell even is this? Like a graph of what types are used in what functions and what functions are called by other functions or something? I don't even know what the hell the arrows are trying to illustrate. Dependency tree or something? Someone explain, please...
@resresres1
4 ай бұрын
i was about to say the same thing. if i was to graph all the signal connections between functions for a program im currently working on.... this is probably what it would look like :x
@rodrigoserafim8834
4 ай бұрын
Its a class dependency graph, which is, to be blunt, a very stupid thing to print out. Usually when you are designing a OOP class system each class depends on dozens of others because you are trying to encapsulate complex things inside it. So you end up with this ridiculous amount of arrows. It might be useful to do it centered on 1 class, kind of like a "find all references", but even the utility of that drawn as a graph is debatable. Drawing it N:N is idiotic. What dependency graphs should really be used for is for module or layer dependencies, where at that level you don't expect one module to depend on too many other ones. Or you might want to quickly identify circular dependencies you might need to deal with. This is pretty much a case of the wrong tool for the job, and Jonathan should know that and explain instead of just laughing at it.
@shortcat
4 ай бұрын
programming is like gaming, but programming
@buoyancydabl
4 ай бұрын
Spending 5 hours on making the game but something causing stack overflow. Trying to find the problem for about 2 years because there is so many lines that it can reach the moon easily.
@shte_ken3978
3 ай бұрын
Average Unreal Engine Blueprint experience
@synchro-dentally1965
4 ай бұрын
Makes me hungry for spaghetti
@johnj3845
4 ай бұрын
They’re not making French Fries, Jonathan …
@alex01763
3 ай бұрын
What even is that? I can see LLVM but the rest is too blurry on my screen
@tanama84
3 ай бұрын
no wonder I cannot learn programming, someone make it so complicated? I need to learn how to be natural programmer. Maybe Mr Jonathan Blow can help us become natural programmer and make everything simple.
@jefawk9603
3 ай бұрын
programmers: oh no wow lol look at this, hard to maintain people that want things done, not things pretty or scaleable: wow it works? ok nice, ty decide which team you're in (hint: people that want things done are the ones that pay you)
@111111222223
4 ай бұрын
I can't tell whether you are making fun of the guys that wrote the code the graphic was generated from or the guys that wrote the graphic generation.
@chromosundrift
Ай бұрын
Q: Is he critiquing the graph generation logic or the code that is described by that graph?
@lepidoptera9337
Ай бұрын
Both, hopefully. Code that looks like the above is not manageable. There is no serious problem in the world that requires a convoluted solution like that.
@somniad
4 ай бұрын
just like at my job!
@trejohnson7677
4 ай бұрын
this fucking game developer lmao.
@cfffba
3 ай бұрын
Blow could of course refactor the whole LLVM into four or five simple, very easy to understand classes. If he wanted to.
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