Time Stamp Guide: 0:00 - Intro 1. 7:12 Persecuted women = women leaders 2. 17:50 Jesus trained women to be rabbis 3. 28:23 If NT women are priests, they can be elders, too 4. 59:35 Women prophets = women elders 5. 1:33:38 Spiritual gifts in women means they can teach and lead ~ 2:08:53 Today’s conclusion and summary
@guygifford
2 жыл бұрын
Your Timestamp guide seems to be missing all the Timestamps of Mike's counter argument summaries. Hahaha.
@TommyNitro
2 жыл бұрын
Because they are the general topic.
@sarahfaith316
2 жыл бұрын
@@guygifford These are the specific time stamps he asked me to find for him, but there may be additional spots in the video you’d like to personally mark. Feel free to note those in the comments!
@punishedgoy9131
2 жыл бұрын
so Mike is egaltarian ?
@sarahfaith316
2 жыл бұрын
@@punishedgoy9131 No. He is a soft complementarian.
@PrincessKait1
2 жыл бұрын
I listened to 6 hours of this study yesterday. I most certainly don’t care how long the videos are, I’ve never been pulled this deep into this topic and I’ve found it absolutely enthralling
@time_2_get_ready
11 ай бұрын
Why not? It is incumbent on every one of us to search the Scriptures and be taught by the Spirit. "Chinese Whispers" = error
@anmarivero
Жыл бұрын
I have learnt so much and finally I can sense some peace in my heart with that matter! I really thank You, Brother Mike, for that wonderful teaching series 🌹❤️🌹❤️🌹
@Hope8x28
2 жыл бұрын
Every single time I listen to a teaching I learn something new about how to study Scripture. Thank you for that, Mike. The more I learn the more I have learned how wrong I have been. Even though I was complementarian wanting to be egalitarian, I've learned how flawed some of my beliefs have been about different verses. I have also learned how much I had leaned on what had been taught vs what I learned from the text. One question that was stirred up in me again about the role of Pastor in the western church. Do you see the role of lead pastor as problematic in that society sees it as a form of priesthood. Do you think the church is set up like it was intended?
@edensmith7757
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, I am looking forward to your video dealing with headship, because I had a couple questions related to it from this video I hope you will address: You mentioned that “Women are only supposed to prophecy while acknowledging male headship,” but doesn’t that restrict prophecy to married women? Or else create an unhealthy power dynamic where single adult women are still under the authority of their fathers, or unrelated male elders (this seems totally absent from scripture and a recipe for abuse). My second question is about your claim that restrictions on women prophesying are there to keep women from blurring the distinction between prophet and elder. If the problem is the prophet being seen by the congregation or him/herself as an elder, wouldn’t those restrictions apply equally to men who are not elders? Shouldn’t men refrain from judging prophecy or prophesying without “acknowledging male headship” beforehand also? What does it even mean to have to acknowledge male headship before prophesying? Thank you for your ministry, you have certainly blessed me and my walk with God :)
@thebiblemind4266
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. There are good clarifying questions to ask here. In the 1 Corinthians 14 passage, Paul encourages all to speak in tongues, and all to prophesy, when the whole church gathers together. It's very all-inclusive language, except for verses 34-35. If Paul already established that women can pray and prophesy in the church gathering in 1 Corinthians 11, then wouldn't they be able to also speak in the Church gathering in all of these ways? For that reason, it seems to me that verses 34-35 need to be taken differently. And, if so, then are they even excluded from even judging or evaluating prophesy? In marriage, a woman is under the headship of her husband. In the Church, we're all under the headship of Christ.
@lornathesewist
2 жыл бұрын
Grateful for this series. learning alot. Greetings from Kenya
@ShenaniGrahams
2 жыл бұрын
The word is still chauvenist. The word itself does not refer to a specific gender. Generally, you'd think of a woman being a female chauvenist but what you are describing would be a female male chauvenist. The word can refer to practically anything that someone believes is superior or that they show excessive loyalty toward. We think of it as only referring to males because it seems the word has become obsolete except for that particular use.
@fredsavory9789
2 жыл бұрын
Jesus Mother and Brothers were part of the 120 in the upper room at Pentecost Acts1
@fredsavory9789
2 жыл бұрын
Acts1:12-14
@michaelwicker9538
2 жыл бұрын
Does that make this the end of the series?
@LogosBibelsoftwareDeutsch
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Mike, Sorry for the issue with Logos. I'm the German tech-support person for Logos and here is the solution: The community highlights have been activated by default for some users. You can disable them under the visual filters. A personal note: THANKS for all your great content which is in-depth, funny, helpful and challenging all the time.
@lukesalazar9283
2 жыл бұрын
Hey! It's cool to see you here!
@JamesAylard
2 жыл бұрын
Also, the basic Logos software is free and includes a lot of content and functionality. There is a lot of additional content available for purchase, and that’s where it can get pricey. But I use it every day and find it is incredibly useful. And I am not a pastor, either.
@azurephoenix9546
2 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Thank you bc I've been having trouble with mine, and you saved me the trouble of sending an email. 💜
@Th3_ArCh0n
Жыл бұрын
Wow
@AbolitionistQA
Жыл бұрын
One of the biggest issues with so many of your leanings towards egalitarianism in some of your arguments is due to emphasizing descriptive texts rather than prescriptive texts. The two texts that you mentioned patriarchal individuals use to refute your position are prescriptive. They carry a lot more weight.
@WendyWzOpinion
2 жыл бұрын
Don’t worry about the length of your videos! We can break them up with the pause button if we need to. We come to you for thorough, Biblical truth. Length of the video is irrelevant. ❤️🙏🏼 Praying for continued wisdom and discernment as you tackle the tough subjects for which Christians need more clarity. ❤️✝️❤️
@Jeremy-xs1ej
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah most videos I break them up over 2-3 days of watching
@wigglesworth3717
2 жыл бұрын
Right, the longer the better!
@dcnfamilyify
2 жыл бұрын
I speed them up to get through faster
@FlyTour69
2 жыл бұрын
Yes! I love his long videos. So much good material to soak in! 🧽 📖
@vikawinters
2 жыл бұрын
Second that.
@vinciblegaming6817
2 жыл бұрын
I am a Mary. Having sound theology helps me lay age appropriate foundations for my kids. And I love the discovery of God in it. I’m emphatically not in favor of the priesthood for women. Once had a friend lament my not wanting to be ordained as if my interest and knowledge was wasted. It is not. It’s a treasure.
@lbee8247
2 жыл бұрын
But when He is really precious to our souls, nothing will be too good, nothing too costly for Him. Everything we have, our dearest, our most priceless treasure, we shall pour out upon Him, and we shall not count it a shame to have done so. - Watchman Nee in the Normal Christian Life Praise God for you to be "wasted" on Him.
@sovereigngodlisaloves9525
2 жыл бұрын
@@lbee8247 Amen and indeed to being His own!!! 🙏
@Morriscode58
2 жыл бұрын
God bless you
@torieboshears9072
2 жыл бұрын
I relate to everything you just said more than you know. Can we be friends please? Lol
@torieboshears9072
2 жыл бұрын
Like I even relate to someone close telling me that my knowledge and abilities are wasted if I do not pursue what she wants me to, what I don’t agree with me pursuing. I related it to ALL
@derekc4415
2 жыл бұрын
My beautiful wife has made a church and made herself a pastor it’s Pentecostal denomination. She now justifies sleeping until noon everyday praying and fasting. I’ve gone through scripture with her about being a biblical wife but now she is above that and now she has hardened her heart to me. I have tried to change my thoughts and get her back but all she says is go to her church. I’ve told her I would leave the church I go to and we need to find a God fearing church together but now her pride is to great and she will not turn from it. She talks more to the men that goes to her church than me and this is been going on for over a year and now. The good thing that came out of this is I have started studying scripture truly myself. Please pray for my marriage.
@Angie-fn8op
2 жыл бұрын
Prayers🙏
@povoq83
2 жыл бұрын
🙏🙏🙏
@someperson9606
2 жыл бұрын
🙏
@jillianwalker22
Жыл бұрын
🙏
@davidmayhall3719
Жыл бұрын
Show her the scriptures. And she should submit to her husband. She is in conflict with God's word. So feminism, Pride is the spirit. God resists the proud but gives grace to the Humble. Your wife has a spirit of pride, and a spirit of Rebellion that is the same as Witchcraft. By ignoring scripture she in in conflict with God and in rebellion. This has gone as far as being in rebellion to her husband. Now she has become wayward she has gone astray to her own way. She must realize that christ Jesus is the only way! She needs correction with the scripture and repentance, and prayer to cast out the Religious spirit. Religion kills but Christianity saves. She should be rebuked with scripture
@SaneNoMore
2 жыл бұрын
I absolutely love the spirit and heart in which you disagree with others. In every video you show a loving spirit even to those who do not do the same in return. This is something I struggle with and watching your video's helps remind me how I should act.
@moomin8251
2 жыл бұрын
When I became a Christian I had such a hunger for the knowledge of God and to understand the Bible and I still have. It must have come from God because I never cared about it before. Some women thought it was odd that I wanted to learn stuff that 'the men usually study' but no one told me I shouldn't.
@cfrost87
2 жыл бұрын
I, too, as a woman, am very interested in doctrine and theology. We are more likely to be at home with the kids and should be able to teach them about God and scripture-- kinda hard to do when we don't know scripture. Or be able to evangelize in our everyday lives, or even being prepared to give an answer for the hope in us-- should know scripture to help back up what we share.
@thereseservais924
2 жыл бұрын
@@cfrost87 I totally agree. That sounds very sound and wise. Thank you for that input. Lots of problems find a solution in a healthy balance between the huge task of being a mother and the need to keep being a "learning child" of God. Our Heavenly Father knows how to help and bless mothers. Blessings.
@paulallen7962
2 жыл бұрын
What does the Bible say about age of consent?
@cfrost87
2 жыл бұрын
@@paulallen7962 What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
@paulallen7962
2 жыл бұрын
@@cfrost87 Nothing, I just thought these knowledgeable ladies might know the answer because I can't find it.
@shamarijefferson
2 жыл бұрын
Women have been treated badly because of sin. So grateful you created this video.
@tompfister9951
2 жыл бұрын
True, it’s a lack of understanding. I wonder why Paul throws woman under the bus in 1 tim2:14
@janeEyreAddict
2 жыл бұрын
@@tompfister9951 he does no such thing... If this passage offends you then perhaps you need to pray about it and look into your own heart to figure out why 9 Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing, 10 but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. 11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first and then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, because she was fully deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control.
@tompfister9951
2 жыл бұрын
@@janeEyreAddict not sure what you’re saying? He mentions the garden saying woman messed up. After he states a “role” for them. I’ve met ppl that call Paul sexist and twisted. How is that so if god is inspiring him?
@janeEyreAddict
2 жыл бұрын
@@tompfister9951 nothing you said makes sense
@ish9455
2 жыл бұрын
@@tompfister9951 If you get affected by people enforcing their modern world views such as "sexism" on God who created both men and women and has complete authority to give them specific roles, you need to recheck your trust in the scriptures.
@johngavinmarshall
2 жыл бұрын
Mike. I just looked at your notes for the first time. WOW! You are so thorough, so well-organized, so well-researched. You are doing such wonderful justice to the biblical issues you study. Thank you on behalf of the saints, and God BLESS you and your amazing ministry!
@susanwang8914
2 жыл бұрын
One thing that annoys me about the whole debate is what seems to be a clamoring for the title of elder in the first place. As if we need to have recognition in order to serve God. I think Jesus is clear in the sermon on the mount what happens when acts are done in order to be honored by others. Also if the greatest is to be the servant of all and if the last will be first and the first will be last, shouldn't it made more sense to be clamoring over the least recognized and humble position?
@JohnPaulBurtch
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't "Amen-ed" so much in I don't even remember how long listening to your thoughts on coming up with roles around people and their unique gifts, in fact I rarely ever feel compelled to shout out those things, let alone from the rooftops! I feel like this has been an incredibly limiting factor in my search for ministry work as well as therefore in and for the churches and ministries I've been involved with so far. So Preach Preach Preach Preach! I didn't even know how much I needed to hear someone say that. Thank you! Seriously though, Preach it, and Amen!
@deborahlandgren7758
2 жыл бұрын
“In necessary things, unity; in doubtful things, liberty; in all things, charity.” Richard Baxter
@maxonmendel5757
2 жыл бұрын
based
@brycengott
2 жыл бұрын
Yes! Love his book, 'Call to the Unconverted'
@ryanparris1021
2 жыл бұрын
Great quote. I think Augustine said it first but doesn’t matter because it’s a timeless truth.
@friedrichrubinstein
2 жыл бұрын
Some egalitarians would abuse this quote and say "this topic is 'doubtful', therefore we demand liberty". As Mike is showing in this series, the Bible is a lot clearer on this topic than many egalitarians (and strong complimentarians) want to acknowledge.
@potapotapotapotapotapota
2 жыл бұрын
@@friedrichrubinstein yes we must make sure to back up our claims with scripture, but where scripture is ambiguous, then we should not be as dogmatic
@Reffinej84
2 жыл бұрын
This is an epic feat - this whole series. I don't pretend to listen to it all because, at this time, it's not all foremost in my mind. But I am enjoying what I do listen to very much and can tell it will be super valuable for many. But also....cannot WAIT til the Hebrews study! (No pressure! ;) )
@vernakroeker2330
Жыл бұрын
Waiting for the Hebrews study.
@Stephenzaffarano
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know if this has been said or not yet, but the way I understand the scriptures regarding the wife submitting to the husband and the husband loving the wife as Christ loves the Church requires a broader commitment from the husband: The wife submits to the husbands authoritative position in the household as a helper but the husband is required to view his relationship to the wife as 'willing to give himself for it', as Jesus gave up His life for us all. In my opinion, this is a 'bigger ask' of the husband: if a Godly husband is performing His role correctly, it doesn't mean that he lords over his wife: it means that he considers her completely from a position of love, and that, love unto death. I believe that the wife should also approach this from a place of love, and that is the secret of the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! They each seek the glory of the other, and desire to glorify one another. It is the consistent and eternal flow of love between them that they are all God yet the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, etc.
@MrDreadEnd
2 жыл бұрын
I find the whole authority arguments very very interesting. I don't try to read too much into the heart of them. Anyways I thought of a useful analogy. The presence of 3 branches of government keeping one another in check via their roles and authority would not lead someone to believe that the roles are interchangeable. A supreme court justice would not be offered the same role of authority or influence as a senate member.
@beckyideson
2 жыл бұрын
So far, my leanings are that women may be in a modern day “pastoral” role in areas such as women’s or Children’s ministry under the head male pastor. Today, the term “pastor” is so broad it’s not like how it used to be. People can be a pastor at a church and only provide prayer and counseling…so idk. I think people take on extreme ideas on both sides.
@uhitsethan
2 жыл бұрын
one might question if there even is an objective standard for being a "pastor" since women take a pastoral role all the time, they just don't have that label.
@beckyideson
2 жыл бұрын
@@uhitsethan today, I don’t think there is much of one. It’s basically the same as being a deacon/deaconess at most churches I’ve seen. Mind you, I go to a reformed Baptist church that has absolutely no women in leadership and leans on the extreme end of complimentarianism. They think women in ministry is good and think women may instruct other women and the children but must be upright and godly etc. but may not be a deaconess or pray us out of service etc.
@uhitsethan
2 жыл бұрын
@@beckyideson its stuff like this that annoys me. This limit isn't done out of a fully understood and realized moral principle.
@tompfister9951
2 жыл бұрын
It’s like the term pastor has no clarity of meaning to people. It has little to no meaning or people don’t understand it’s role...
@beckyideson
2 жыл бұрын
@@tompfister9951 I think there’s some of both. Like a pastor today isn’t always necessarily an “elder” in the Biblical sense. Some are and some aren’t. It’s touchy! Especially as a woman who has a gifting for teaching and public speaking and who has been told several times to use these gifts for God…the question is how? If I cannot lead a women’s group or serve in a pastoral role in women’s ministry even under a male head pastor, where and how can I use these gifts? I want to honor God with my actions! So I’m trying to be super careful in my approach but don’t want to ignore my gifts simply because of gender. Maybe online stuff like Mike does? Idk! Pray for me y’all.
@michaelmichez4289
2 жыл бұрын
As I watch through this excellent video series, it appears to me that the most fundamental problem with this whole issue gets blurred by the definition of words. (Is this what drove people apart at Babel?) Mike Winger has discussed this a number of times in the series, particularly the definition of pastor not being the same as the biblical elder, overseer or bishop and the definition of priest not being pastor. I can understand the frustration of people who think it is wrong to deny women the position of say, Administrative Pastor, or Worship Pastor, or Outreach Pastor, especially if these positions would not have been considered overseers in the first century church. I think many times in the past we have unfairly denied women opportunities and missed out on their contribution because we have incorrectly applied male exclusivity to positions in the church that don't deserve them. I can't see that anything Mike has presented would exclude women from many of these "pastoral" positions. Simply applying the 'new fangled' "Pastor" title to what in the first century would have been a deacon role, should not exclude women. Are we going to say men can only take out the church garbage because the position has been labelled "Waste Pastor"? I don't think so. Alternatively, I don't think the correct response to these past injustices is to demand that everyone can do everything. To solve the pastoral exclusion problem by saying that women can now perform all pastoral roles is not the right approach either. The solution is to do exactly what Mike has done. Take a step back. Take a deep breath and then calmly and patiently try to discern the will of God in this matter. If we can't agree that we all need to submit to God's will, then you have more serious problems with your walk than this issue. (See Part 1 of this series) Thank you Mike, for taking so much time to shine so much light on such a contentious and relevant topic.
@sherimowery3251
2 жыл бұрын
“Waste pastor!!” Good one!😂
@michaelmichez4289
2 жыл бұрын
@@shanebailey6341 Ordained means recognized by a religious group as a leader. Pastor relates to being a Shepard, but generally means a leader. Administrative means taking care of the business related aspects of running the church not the religious aspects. Eg accounting, ordering supplies, building maintenance, set up for services. Pastor is not really a biblical term, which is what causes many of the problems. So if we only want to consider what the Bible says, then we need to stop using the term pastor.
@michaelmichez4289
2 жыл бұрын
@@shanebailey6341 That is not my experience. My church has had a Lead Pastor, a Teaching Pastor, an Administrative Pastor, a Worship Pastor, a Youth Pastor, a Children’s Pastor and a number of others. A number of these positions would be more like deacon roles, but because of the generic use of the term pastor, these have been historically limited to men. I don’t think a biblical case can be made for exclusion of women from the role of pastor, since the term is not used in the Bible. You need to look at the function the ‘pastor’ has and then relate it to the biblical roles the Bible actually discusses and evaluate each ‘pastoral’ role according to their biblical equivalents. Again, the confusion arises with titles and word definitions that have no biblical equivalence, as Mike Winger discusses.
@michaelmichez4289
2 жыл бұрын
@@shanebailey6341 I understand what you are saying, but the Bible only uses pastor in that one location, and it is not very gender specific there. The gender specific passages do not use pastor, which is were the confusion begins. I believe we both believe the same thing. My original point was that because we have historically excluded women from anything labelled pastor, and we have used pastor very broadly, we have denied women roles they should be able to hold. My question to you then is, “Where do you get a biblical definition of the word pastor?” I don’t see any definition in Ephesians, only a listing. If you feel the definition has been diluted, where is the original definition found in scripture?
@michaelmichez4289
2 жыл бұрын
@@shanebailey6341 I agree, we agree. As I stated at the beginning, this comes down to word definitions, and if they are not specifically defined in the Bible, I find it difficult to defend. You argue that the traditional meaning of Pastor should be well understood, but I contend that it no longer is, and since it is not defined in the Bible, why should this be a hill to die on. I can simply look at the biblical words like elder or bishop and ask if these align with a person’s actual role in the church. In my childhood church, only men could have any leadership role, pastor, elder or deacon. The traditional definitions were clearly understood: men lead. That was the tradition. I would argue that biblically defined roles, like bishop or elder are reserved for men; as indicated by scripture. Undefined titles like pastor, I’m not going to argue over. I’m not bound by tradition definitions only biblical ones. As far as words like omnipotent, omnipresent and trinity, these are words that have been used to summarize concepts that can be clearly defended from scripture. Their definitions come from their actual meaning but if someone wants to argue that God is not omnipotent because the word is not in scripture, I will concede that, and simply argue that he is all powerful, which can be defended from scripture. I’m not sure what we are discussing, since we agree we agree. I think you are bound to the traditional meaning of the word pastor, and I am not. The result from both our understandings appears to have the same outcome, so where do we go from here?
@carloporter1373
2 жыл бұрын
How do you explain the fact that the Holy Spirit is using and blessing thousands of women as Pastors and "elders" in the world especially here in America today? God clearly is using many many women and blessing them and the church through their ministry as a pastor. They clearly have a relationship with God and He is speaking to them and they are serving God with their whole heart and life.
@Theos_thinker
7 ай бұрын
I’m about a year late. However, Mike addressed what your saying in part 1 of his series.
@Yipper64
2 жыл бұрын
the main way I know for a fact that women can teach is looking at the family unit. A woman is meant to raise children where the man works to put food on the table, right? well what is raising a child? Teaching.
@lookingatdaisies9901
5 ай бұрын
The debate wasn't that women don't have the ability to teach. But whom.
@lydiawilsey6056
2 жыл бұрын
This I absolutely what I was looking forward to in this series. Thank you Mike and the whole BibleThinker team!
@chrisatkinson5169
2 жыл бұрын
"Extra Priest-y" ..... I laughed out at that! you made this youth ministry heart smile. thanks Mike
@Stephenzaffarano
2 жыл бұрын
One might include Jesus speaking to the woman at the well as a teaching moment for her, and that she then went on to share with others as a testimony to her newfound faith. That doesn't make her a Rabbi or a teacher herself, but others can learn from her experience.
@uhitsethan
2 жыл бұрын
So let me get this straight...women have been shown repeatedly to be capable of fulfilling a "pastoral role" within scripture, but people still hold onto the idea that they should not be pastors/elders? What does the label have to do with anything, practically speaking? How many pastor moments are women allowed to have per day before it goes against Paul?
@bigcountrymountainman9740
2 жыл бұрын
@@uhitsethan zero. Why do you think Jesus never ever appointed a woman or women to be apostles? The criteria for a pastor is this. A HUSBAND of one wife, with his house in order. Obedient children. He is to be beyond reproach. No scandal. Calm, gentle, compassionate and have self control. There is an authority scale so to speak in the house of God and in the home. First of all, the woman sinned first and because Eve caused Adam to sin, she was put under him in authority but equals at the foot of the cross only. There is nothing wrong at all for a woman to teach children (male and female) but she is not to stand before men and preach with authority in any way shape or form. People say, what if she feels called to do it. If she feels called to preach, it is of her own volition because Christ would be contradicting himself if he told a woman to stay preaching. The third and most important reason women are not allowed to ask questions openly in church is because it will bring Shame upon her husband, her causing him to look as if he is not teaching her. And 4th, simply because THE BIBLE SAYS SO. That's it and that's all. If a woman can't trust what the Bible says, saying that NO WOMAN IS TO PREACH WITH AUTHORITY, then she is willfully and purposefully being disobedient. All women preachers are false teachers. ALL OF THEM... if they are preaching, they are doing it of their own will and are not called by God
@bigcountrymountainman9740
2 жыл бұрын
@@uhitsethan I don't understand why you say that how many pastoral moments does a woman have to have before she goes against God. 1st of all come at 0 because she's not allowed to in any way shape or form a preach on the street in a house or in a church or anywhere else for that matter with authority. Secondly, why do you say how many pastoral moments does she have to have before she goes against Paul? Why do you say Paul? The Bible was not written by man except for except for the fact that he was the Pen. Jesus is the author that's holding The pen and Paul Matthew James Titus Jude Moses David Solomon et cetera were the pen held by God as He wrote down the scripture. Nothing in the Bible is of men. The Bible chalky states that the vibe was GIVEN THROUGH INSPIRATION OF GOD for doctrine, reprove and teaching, instruction and correction. The words in the Bible about women are not of Paul, but OF GOD HIMSELF.
@uhitsethan
2 жыл бұрын
@@bigcountrymountainman9740 well I'd encourage you to watch the video. I'm sure the reasoning for my position is in there somewhere. But I have two questions about your responses. 1. You say that all women preachers are false preachers. To what extent? Does this mean they are actively and consistently preaching falsehoods? 2. If a woman feels called to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, you say this is not actually from Christ. If not Christ, then why do women all around the world think they are called to preach? Are they called by Satan? And to quickly address your question about why I said Paul, I meant Paul's writing. I'm not making a statement here against biblical inerrancy. I am just repeating what Paul said in 1 tim 2:8 where he says all of this is what he wants.
@barbarak8158
2 жыл бұрын
@@bigcountrymountainman9740 Whew!! I pity any woman that comes in contact with you! Are you on anabolic steroids?
@DaysofElijah317
Жыл бұрын
Mike thank you for doing this study- the most important thing is that we stick to the scripture not read into it our favorite pet beliefs. Your labor in the LORD has been a huge blessing to us all
@brooke8443
2 жыл бұрын
Great video Pastor Mike! I really enjoyed the discussion around the gifts and offices. But my favorite part was the beautiful sermonette in the middle about the priesthood of believers. Just beautiful, thank you for taking the time to dive deep really thrush out these issues.
@karenreynolds349
2 жыл бұрын
Mine too Brooke!!!!!!
@emilykbond
2 жыл бұрын
That was mine too!
@martinupchurch5360
2 жыл бұрын
thanks for putting this out there Mike, a lot of good stuff.
@karenreynolds349
2 жыл бұрын
I was watching and clapping and shouting Amen when you started talking and speaking on the Priesthood!!! Thanks for all your time, research and study on this topic!! You have me "Thinking Biblically"!!!!
@Elijah-ri6xo
2 жыл бұрын
The The Bible says God prefers for people to be in LGBT relationships. Anyone that teaches the LIE of monetary tithing, sells anything using the gospel, or teaches that same-sex marriage is a sin CHOOSES to die with the wicked. Luke 10:7 states the only wages for ministering are eating and drinking whatever you are given. Also, know that rich people will all die. You can't be a Christian, sit on all kinds of money, watch your fellow brothers and sisters starve, suffer, or be homeless, choose to do nothing about it, and think that it's ok. Those are all wolves. Mathew 19:12 Eunuchs that are born that way are transgender. Eunuchs made that way by others were abused in some way and something inside of them blocks off a certain type of body but it doesn't happen to everyone that is abused. Those that choose to live like Eunuchs FOR THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN are bisexual people that choose partners of the same sex-characteristics but opposite in regards to gender. Notice, it states God PREFERS for people to be in LGBT relationships. Leviticus, Corinthians, and Timothy were translated wrong by Billy Graham. Those verses are actually referring to pedophilia. Romans 1:27 All of the men were male in regards to gender, all of the women were female in gender. It is not referring to Eunuchs (where one partner is transgender). Also, it had nothing to do with marriage of any kind. They were trying to procreate during orgies so God did it on purpose. Anyone that continues to teach same sex marriage is a sin when the Bible says God prefers for people to be in LGBT relationships will also die by their own choice. In order to be a church building, the place must house people inside of it. Otherwise it is just another private money-making business part of Babylon that furthers satan's agenda. Stay out of the fake churches. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6 and Acts 3:22-23 says it will come to pass that anyone that fails to listen to me will be UTTERLY destroyed from among the people. Again, everyone has a choice. And anyone that deletes my messages CHOOSES to reject Jesus Christ Himself and that means they also CHOOSE to die with the wicked. I am Elijah so that means any discrepancies in the holy books are ultimately decided by me. I am also to usher in the Messiah! Be ready: Jesus is coming back! WORLD PEACE IS COMING!! By the way, anything based on gender norms no longer applies. In fact, the last will be first and the first will be last. It's women that will be ruling the kingdom of heaven........ And rapture is not what most people think. Its when God's true people shine with the glory of God and are miraculously healed. Read Malchi 4:2-4 and the verses surrounding it........... Malachi 2 proves Malachi 3:8-11 is talking to the thieving church leaders. Every single major church and fake preacher on television knew since August of 2020 if they brought the money back they were never supposed to take for ministering then God would end Covvid but they love money so much they intentionally chose to kill everyone instead of repenting.. Sodom was bout rape and greed, nothing to do with marriage of any kind . . . . . . . . ......
@savedbygrace745
2 жыл бұрын
Elijah, honey, I have no earthly idea what your smoking, ingesting or drinking but I sure hope you someday see the total adsurdity and blasphemy of your understanding of the Holy Scriptures. May God have mercy on you.
@amustardseed6748
2 жыл бұрын
@@Elijah-ri6xo Read Romans 1:26-28, Jude 1:7, and Read through the entire chapter of Romans 1 and then Jude. Then go back to Genesis 18:23 - 19:15 and if you are too busy to read it here is a link:
@HopeKuhn
2 жыл бұрын
@@Elijah-ri6xo Hello Elijah, actually if I deleted your message right now I would NOT be rejecting the true Jesus. He is my Lord and Saviour regardless of your message here. Just warning you, you are spreading lies about God which is pretty serious. Scripture is abundantly clear; God made us male and female, and He said to be fruitful and multiply, which you can only do as a male and female. And He makes it clear in many passages that He considers the act of homosexuality as an “abomination”. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Genesis 2:24 ESV “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination;” Leviticus 20:13 ESV “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.” Romans 1:26-28 ESV Pastor Mike has a whole series on homosexuality if you’re interested: biblethinker.org/homosexuality/
@amustardseed6748
2 жыл бұрын
@@HopeKuhn Thank you! I forgot about his website I sent the person a link to a playlist I made that contained his series!
@nathanwarnes1143
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Mike! Are you aware that there is a 16 second long, troll video on your women in ministry playlist? Just thought you’d appreciate the heads up
@johnrobertson8008
2 жыл бұрын
Great discussion on the distinction between prophecy and teaching but I think Mike has failed to keep up with the recent archaeological research and koine Greek papyri discoveries especially since the 1970s that has thrown a lot of light on the fact the e.g. woman can be elders. I can’t understand why Mike spends so many hours trying to explain why woman can’t have authority in relation to church governance. I feel that Mike is stuck together with most other modern New Testament translators that have been influenced by that sort of 17th century KJV Puritan influenced bible translation that had a particular narrowly focussed chauvinistic theological lens about the role of women. I feel that Mike may be stuck in a traditional denominational theological time warp. This is why I think he can’t seem to accept that woman can be elders. Recent discoveries have shown that there were e.g. many women synagogue and church leaders in New Testament and early church times. This fact is also demonstrated in the many koine Greek papyri discoveries that have thrown much more light on the inaccurate English renderings of such words as ‘obey’, ‘submit’, ‘head’, where the semantic range more accurately includes the meanings, ‘pay attention to’, ‘listen to’, ‘support’ and ‘source’ rather than ‘authority over’. The Greek word for ‘head’ e.g. does not mean ‘authority over’ as in English but means ‘source’ as e.g. Adam being created first and thus being the ‘source’ of the creation of Eve. Dr A Nyland in her ‘The Source New Testament’ translation makes the following comments on Romans 16:1-2 , “I recommend to you Phoebe our fellow believer, who is a deacon of the assembly in Kenchreai, so that you will admit her into your company, the Lord’s company, in a manner worthy of the people devoted to God and stand by her in whatever matters she needs you to help in. For indeed she became a presiding officer over many, and over me also”. Based on recent research Nyland states: “’Prostatis’ translates as ‘presiding officer’, ‘leader and protector’. ( Nyland seems to be inferring here that most modern translations dishonestly translate this word as meaning that a woman must be just a ‘helper’ or ‘assistant' because women couldn’t possibly be anything else other than that). She states: “’Prostatis’, referred to a person of the front rank, the chief of a body of people; in general, a ruler, someone who stands in the front of people and protects them. It was also a term which referred to those who gave protection to people who did not have civil rights. The KJV and RSV incorrectly render ‘prostatis’ as ‘helper’, the NIV as - '(she has been) a great help’. The NEV translates ‘prostatis’ as ‘good friend’. Of course, until recently many translators did not believe that a woman could be the leading (senior) minister (Mike obviously does not believe that either) and so they translated, not what they saw before them, but what they thought should be there. Vine (e.g.) writes: “That her ministry did not take the form of preaching or teaching, it is safe to assume”. On commenting on Paul’s use of ‘prostatis,’ Vine does note that the word was “evidently chosen instead of another which might have been easily used” but adds that the use must be “metaphorical”. However there is no example of metaphorical use of this word in all extant Greek writings. The word ‘prostatis’ used here for a woman caused some discomfort as early as the 9th century and it was altered in some inferior manuscripts to ‘parastasis’, “one who stands by / assistant”. Yet the word ‘prostatis’ was used for women no less than it was for men. The 4th century woman Tullia, a Chief City Official, was described as ‘prostatis’. She was a woman of wealth and was said to have spent her wealth bountifully upon the city. In Macedonia after Alexander’s death Krateros was entrusted with the ‘prostatis’ of the kingship while the king, Arridos was abroad. The term ‘prostatis’ was status laden and denoted position / office’. At the end of Romans 16:2 Nyland also makes the comment about Paul’s statement that Phoebe as a ‘presiding officer’ was being in that position ‘over me also’. She states: “Paul is writing a formal recommendation, which necessitates giving Phoebe’s title on the basis of her leadership. He establishes her credentials as his emissary to Rome.’
@philiphewittii2605
2 жыл бұрын
@Paster Mike, I would love to see you deep dive why we call the Holy Spirit a "he" when according Origen (c. 185-254) wrote that the Holy Spirit was a "she", in fact, calls the Holy Spirit Mother. The Aramaic word "rucha", the ancient Hebrew word "ruach" which means spirit and ancient Hebrew word for the presence of God "Shekinah" are all feminine. I think we loose sight of the fullness of the Divine by not acknowledging that God's 3 aspects includes a male and a female spirit. Sure the ancient Greek word for spirit is gender neutral, but that doesn't change what the Jews of the time of Jesus believed and taught...it is just a shortcoming of ancient Greek. I attended a Messianic Christian church a few times and they refer to the Holy Spirit as "she"...which led me down the road of why they were doing that since I had been taught it was "he". I hope you at least give this some thought. God bless you and your ministry...I have learned so much and continue to.
@LazarAndrei-VNI
2 жыл бұрын
Prophecy is not a position. Prophecy is a gift that according to 1Cor any Christian can acquire it. The position of Prophet is the one that holds authority in the Church and not the gift. Prophecy and being a prophet are two different things
@lindajohnson4204
2 жыл бұрын
I think God wants us to live as if we need men, to be the protectors and providers. That doesn't mean that we, as women, are especially weak, or that we are to pretend to be weaker than we are, "shrinking violets", etc. ALL people are both weak and strong. The righteous woman in Proverbs, "girds her loins with strength". She's strong and she's wearing work pants! But men have stronger muscles than we do, and we do need their protection. So I think God wants other things for us than to compete with men. I believe He wants us to be about love and relationships, caring for family, children, and friends, needy people, and so on. Those are great, necessary, honorable, noble, beautiful things. We have been fools to listen to women and men who denigrated them. Even when I was much more of a feminist, I never thought it was bad to be either barefoot or pregnant. So for God to tell us not to be pastors, may have something to do with our respecting that protecting role. And it might have something to do with the psychology of men, that they really need us as especially nurturing people in their lives. Even nurturing, as practiced by men, is more natural among women who are nurturing. It is hard for a gentle, nurturing guy to be that way when the women in their lives are all ambition, anger, and competition. It's ungodly if men compete among themselves for ministerial roles, in that spirit of ruthless competition. So when women are always mad, and in competition, fighting for better positions, something serious is broken in the relationship of the sexes (and in the women!). I think that women are angry about men being in charge, not because of the gender of the leaders, but because of the typical character of so many particular men in leadership roles. There is so much devastingly bad experience at the hands of arrogant, swaggering, cruel, ungodly, untrustworthy men, especially in pastor and elder roles, and that is plain ungodly, yet a cultural standard says that's how men should be. When women see them allowed to carry on like that, yet supposedly women are worse as leaders than these men are, and that can cause one to rage, if God is supposed to be in favor of that hypocritical and cruel arrangement. But God couldn't possibly be in favor of that. He is against it. The Bible reveals that He is. Jesus, who created men and masculinity, was not like that, and He taught against that kind of attitude and practice, too. Men think they have to have pride, even if it makes others under them pay a heavy price. God says pride is a sin, and to be repented of. In spite of the fact that many men think that women have gotten more than our share of advancement and respect, that isn't really the true picture for either sex. Everything is messed up; everything is ruined. There is a real need for both men and women to repent, and let God make our relationships show what redemption means to ruined things. An arrogant and cruel attitude is just as evil and ugly in one gender, as it is on the other.
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
Love this, it's very well put and you seem to have your finger on the problems that have come from unbiblical fluff thats sometimes been added to complementarian theology, and yet you dont compromise gender differences. There are so many things womanhood and femininity can teach us about God and about how humans should live in unity together that manhood and masculinity cannot. Just as manhood and masculinity teach us things womanhood and femininity cannot. Both genders bear God's image in important and valuable ways. Still not sure why gender differences necessitate hierarchy, but I'm still in the process of learning and am looking forward to Mike's future videos.
@lindajohnson4204
2 жыл бұрын
@@nicoleparsons7630 I agree, and thank you so much for your reply.
@ashleywaliczek3118
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this comment! So well put, particularly those last few lines about how broken we all are in this. It certainly seems like the vitriol from both sides in this debate comes from an unbalanced view of our own inadequacies - which is why I so appreciate Mike's thoughtful and detailed analysis of this topic.
@lemuel1817
2 жыл бұрын
@@nicoleparsons7630 Well said, however I disagree with one thing, hierarchical power in many cases tends to tilt towards tyranny be it men or women, it really isn't as simple as the culture accepting bad behavior from men. We need better regulations for people in authority, however in most cases power is abused whether the culture agrees with it or not. I mean look at how far we've come today, yet corruption is still prominent amongst those in positions of power regardless of the cultural disdain for it. Tyrannical power tends to affect everybody, men and women, this is why I've always had a serious problem with feminism, because they tend to forget that most men in power only account for 1%, and the rest of the men are at the bottom of the pyramid suffering just as much as women during times of oppression. In addition women have never proven to be different from men morally when at the helm of power. People tend to forget that one of the largest symbols of ancient corruption and tyranny(The British Empire) was led and ordered by a woman, Queen Elizabeth I.
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
@@lemuel1817 yes, I absolutely agree with you. We define authority as power and control instead of defining it the way the Bible does: responsibility and service and empowering people to do the things God designed them for.
@mchevalier-seawell4438
2 жыл бұрын
Women did prophecy in public..see whole discussion of head coverings when they were prophesying.
@christinalafferty6073
2 жыл бұрын
"somebody add that to the dictionary for me. Oh wait... They only do that for certain people" 🤣 Very good video, thanks Pastor Mike!
@lyterman
2 жыл бұрын
Can someone explain this to me?
@sarahfaith316
2 жыл бұрын
@@lyterman Just a joke from the video.
@lyterman
2 жыл бұрын
@@sarahfaith316 Right, what does the joke mean though?
@jrconway3
2 жыл бұрын
@@lyterman Webster's dictionary was literally changing definitions in the online dictionary when the definition didn't line up with what some Democrat was saying. This has happened a few times recently but I especially remember it being talked about last summer.
@lyterman
2 жыл бұрын
@@jrconway3 Oh, something having to do with racism and power? I think I've heard that before.
@melissa7777
2 жыл бұрын
One thing Gods taught me through the bible is that the more I learn on a topic and the more confusing it gets, the more understanding I still need on that topic. Therefore I'm just not seeing all the truth yet, why I cant find any definitive answer. Not knowing the answer means we have more to grow still in our understanding, because there is a bigger picture here God wants to teach us! The truth is in there it will come to light, exactly on Gods timing like a huge puzzle being all put together., piece by piece till we understand his message! Then we get the revelation and its a very exciting time!
@guygifford
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. I read the Bible daily for many years, but learning the puzzle pieces. I was only able to match about one piece a year. But after many years, the pieces are now being matched, seemingly non-stop.
@banzakidimye348
2 жыл бұрын
Being a man is not the only requirement for pastoral ministry. An elder/pastor must also be temperate, not easily angered, hospitible, and have a good reputation with outsiders (unbelievers), etc. Yet, I know pastors/elders who are not hospitable - who are easily angered - etc. If I were to pritoritise these qualifications - I would perhaps put gender lower down the list. I personally believe that we must distinguish between the IDEAL and the REAL - and unfortunatley the world in which we live is not ideal. I believe that God can and will call women into leadership roles when men are either unable or unwilling to respond to God's call..... (e.g. Deborah). In recent centuries, many women have been used by God to plant and establish Christ's church, as missionaries, in foreign lands. Women have often gone where men have been either unable or unwilling to go. I do not believe that this is the ideal - but nevertheless, God used them.
@Steve-L
2 жыл бұрын
You cannot put rules in order, and say one is more important than others. All rules must be followed. Just because a rule is abused or ignored, doesn't license you or anyone else to ignore a different rule. In such cases both parties are in sin and error. It doesn't matter which rule is ignored. We must walk in God's ways. Jesus said: Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity!
@friedrichrubinstein
2 жыл бұрын
Prophetesses, missionaries, church planters etc were never in question. This question is specifically about *elders* as a fix role of authority in a local church. Women can do anything outside that role according to the Bible.
@realista3
2 жыл бұрын
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
@padillas4357
2 жыл бұрын
There would not be a Calvary Chapel if it were not for Pastor Chuck getting saved and ordained in a denomination founded and led by a woman.
@Cinnamonbuns13
2 жыл бұрын
@@padillas4357 God strikes straight blows with crooked sticks.
@giftedandblack494
Жыл бұрын
Did Deborah in the old testament teach and bring the word to the king and take men into battle as a prophet of God? God did not mind women in charge but men did.
@dianamatthews5965
9 ай бұрын
Thank you, Mike and all his team of helpers (especially including his wife!) for the work and dedication that goes into this ministry. I pray it will bring good fruit and they'll be rewarded. I've been listening to this series in order when I could. Other times, like now, I listen to whatever episode of it I find out of order. Praying for Mike's recovery and for God to carry him and his sister through their grief.
@DarrylPassow
Ай бұрын
Paul said it all goes back to the garden. For Adam was NOT DECEIVED but the woman, being deceived, was in the greater transgressions. That's why Paul says women should not rule or have authority over the man. I can't get any clearer.
@HashimWarren
2 жыл бұрын
Waiting for a kind commenter to create chapters and time codes 🙂
@HopeKuhn
2 жыл бұрын
Sarah Zimmermann is Pastor Mike’s assistant and she will have the time stamps and chapters up for us and they will be available at the top! 🙂
@sarahfaith316
2 жыл бұрын
@Hashim Warren They're all set now! Thank you for your patience!
@HashimWarren
2 жыл бұрын
@@sarahfaith316 thank you! 🔥🔥🔥
@sarahfaith316
2 жыл бұрын
@@HashimWarren My pleasure!
@shellymessina6733
2 жыл бұрын
i believe paul teaches us to test all things and be sure it lines up with scripture. I am surprised at the thought of not checking things out just bc the man is an elder...there are many many messed up elders and leaders in the churches. It is sad..but true..it is hard to find a church with a great and consistently biblical teaching ..
@MikeWinger
2 жыл бұрын
Of course we check things. Much of my ministry is doing that. I’m speaking about the fact that there is no official procedure for teaching like there is for prophecy.
@judylloyd7901
2 жыл бұрын
@@MikeWinger Just a note: Jesus was not being taken to the temple to be circumcised. Circumcision was performed on the 8th day, probably in the home. The trip to the temple was for the offering of the sacrifice for Mary's purification, on the 40th day for a male child (80th day for a female child). See Luke 2:22; Leviticus 12:2-8. 😁👍👍
@skiamach6208
2 жыл бұрын
I have several thoughts about your comment, and I am not sure if any of them will apply but here they are. One of the points that is made by Mike is that the church should test the character of an elder before appointing that man as an elder. So, the "testing" comes before the appointing. Now it is human nature to hide our sin and there will be some who become elders who have hidden sins that would otherwise prevent that. Find a church that has pastoral leadership that you can trust. I think it is harmful for us to become part of a church and be so cynical that we cannot give any trust to church leadership. Finally, there are many elders/pastors that I have known over the years that I think have met the requirements, they are of good character, and they are knowledgeable teachers, yet there is no one bible teacher that I ever have agreed with 100% on every point. I am satisfied that they are knowledgeable and sincere in their teaching and that they are accurate on all the essential doctrines and rely on the Bible as their authority. Testing is fine (I am thinking of the Bereans who tested Paul's teaching against scripture), but don't listen with an intent to just find their mistakes.
@jeffjeff3621
2 жыл бұрын
Can you talk about what you believe woman can do in ministry? For example, can women be youth directors, worship leaders, college ministry leaders, etc?
@Steve-L
2 жыл бұрын
He stated, in this video, there would be a future video concerning application.
@annlowry9841
2 жыл бұрын
I honestly wonder though....if God had said only women can be Elders, how that would go down? Mike said he doesn't understand the "social rage" and while I believe the social rage is entirely wrong...he probably doesn't understand it because it doesn't affect him here. There are enough passages/scriptures to enable an Egalitarian view (even if said view is incorrect) so the issue is tough and very hard.
@elissabellajoy
2 жыл бұрын
I so appreciate all of your studies, breaking topics and issues down, searching them out thoroughly. I'm really encouraged by and thankful for your boldness in stepping into the ministry God has gifted you with and called you to, even it being something brand new and unusual for the regular CC "set up." 😁Makes me feel less of a weirdo,😊 and it's really encouraging for me in this present season of once again being led to waters not many wanna tread, but I truly very happily do for Christ. (Ps: Please, continue praying for the Church in Ukraine, and for an awakening.) 🙏🙏
@BEABEREAN10
2 жыл бұрын
What this week's teaching showed me is that we really need to look at 1 Tim 2:12 and consider that it says in context "woman should not teach as to USURP authority." We cannot ignore the word usurp as many do. It does not say that woman cannot have authority, or that they cannot teach. They simply shouldn't teach false doctrines (just as Paul repeats over and over to Timothy) and they shouldn't try to take authority as by force. Great work Mike! I still fall into the egalitarian side where that a woman could teach and preach and even lead a church as a pastor, as long as it is in proper order of GIVEN authority (not taken) and teaching sound doctrine. She too has to follow the same qualifications as any other elder, other than it being she is the wife of one husband, which of course we could simply say - she is in a faithful monogamous marriage and not sleeping around. The same way we summarize that qualification for any other elder when we don't have on our complementarian goggles.
@thebiblemind4266
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, agreed, on the 1 Timothy 2 passage. Paul uses a word for authority that is only in that passage. It's not the regular kind of authority, as in an org chart, but it's a word meaning abusive authority, as you mentioned in your comment. God wouldn't want anyone to have that kind of authority over anyone else. For this reason, I believe that 1 Tim 2:12 leaves an opening for women to have the right kind of authority over a mixed group, but not the wrong kind. Remember, the proclivity in the garden was for the woman to take charge and for the man to acquiesce to their destruction. God puts in these guardrails to keep that from happening again. But, in no way, does it mean that a woman can't have a God-given authority. There were already precedents of this in the Bible in the Old Testament.
@BEABEREAN10
2 жыл бұрын
@@alexhamilton624 Thank you Brent! We can't pretend that culture matters everywhere else in the bible but ignore it here. Artemis Cult is the same reason Paul explained in context the proper order of creation. The Artemis Cult which was based in Ephesus taught that woman was created first and had authority over man... and they also taught that Artemis judged woman with death during childbirth, hence the reason Paul encouraged them that they are saved by childbirth (the birth of Christ).
@ethanweber6744
Жыл бұрын
@@thebiblemind4266 that is actually not proven at all. It is a matter of much scholarly debate
@lookingatdaisies9901
5 ай бұрын
@@BEABEREAN10can you tell me more about how we know he's taking about an Artemis Cult, I literally read so many translations of this verse, because I'm like even if this verse is true, what is this random interruption to talk about being saved by childbirth? Some translations have shown it is "Women will also be saved through the Childbirth".
@HalLeath
2 жыл бұрын
Notice Anna in Luke chapter 2, she was a Prophetess, and spoke to all about Jesus. And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; and she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Luke 2:36-38
@Hope8x28
2 жыл бұрын
He spoke about her at length in this video.
@marthathompson2012
2 жыл бұрын
This series has been very helpful and affirming, especially in the sense of getting to the heart of Scripture and the heart of God, and I thoroughly appreciate the work that you are doing here. Additionally to the main topic (focusing on roles of women) the basic structure and organization of the church is interesting to me, and I’d love to see a thorough examination of that, explanation of titles, etc. the term “elder” is used very differently in most churches than to describe the role of what is typically called a head pastor-elders being more like a set of support individuals who advise and encourage the leader. I’m interested in the terminology and Scriptural support for (or openness because of no particular direction given) the way that churches organize. The idea of creating positions specific to unique gifting is along those lines, as well.
@itsokay1834
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, I feel truly blessed with the your videos you share with us. I believe this is a hard topic you are taking on, and I think you are trying you best to give a biblical perspective about it. Even if you don't quit agree with it yourself. I see the videos is helping a lot of people out there, and a see a lot of people getting upset about it. I pray that you have strength to endure the hardships of the path you have taken. My God guide you and give you strength. This is your suffering and cross to bear, and hopefully in the end more people will be closer to God and followers of Jesus. Thanks for teaching us to think biblically.
@nancybaumgartner6774
9 күн бұрын
I am suspicious of anyone who actively pursues to lead . The best leaders are the ones who are reluctant because they understand the seriousness of serving God.
@battlefudge
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mike, I now have a new term: "extra priesty"
@jesselazar2928
2 жыл бұрын
Mike, I think this might be my favorite video in this series so far. It felt a little more balanced and you made many great points. The vast effort you’ve put into this, as well as your striving to remain neutral, are very appreciated. As usual, I agree with you that most of these arguments are unconvincing for egalitarianism, especially if standing alone (I don’t base my own egalitarian view on any of these arguments). Still, I think there are some points to be made: 1) You mentioned you don’t consider this debate a “gray area.” You consider it sufficiently clear that one side is the winner. This is surprising to me, as I think the diversity of views among wise people on both sides, and the intense debate all around, is strong evidence that it is NOT as clear as you say. Typically, when I hear people say this issue is straightforward, I assume they’re simply not familiar with the issue and haven’t done their homework. I know that’s not true in your case, so I wonder how you could say/think this. Beyond that, I am genuinely confused as to what evidence you think is so strong on the complementarian side. So, if you see this, could you recommend the best book or resource that argues for complementarianism? I sincerely am trying to find something convincing, but everything I find uses poor, unconvincing arguments. Perhaps I’m just terribly unlucky? I’d also like to see such a source because, as I’ve mentioned before, you spend little time arguing FOR complementarianism and most of your time arguing AGAINST the antithesis. But debunking poor arguments for alternatives doesn’t directly prove one’s initial claim. 2) I was very happy to hear you reject the husband as “priest” of the home, even though this is likely to offend many complementarians. It reminds me of the book “Created to be His Helpmeet” by Michael and Debi Pearl. Debi tells a story in which she asked her husband to pray for something because, in her words, that would be bringing in the “big guns.” It’s so sad that she felt her husband’s prayers were more effective just because he’s a man! Still, you did say something about the husband being the “head of the home”, a phrase (and, I would argue, concept) that does not appear in the Bible. I’m curious to hear you develop this further in future videos, especially since rejecting the “priest” view of husbands somewhat neuters the sense in which the husband is “head.” If not the “priest”, who is in some way responsible for his family before God as a sort of intermediary, in what sense is he “head?” But this can wait for the video on that topic. 3) I appreciated your pushback against John MacArthur. Still, I think you and he are making the same mistake: he is using “women must remain silent” to interpret/qualify statements about women prophesying, while you are using statements about women prophesying to interpret/qualify “women must remain silent.” I’m open to correction if I’m misinterpreting anything here. 4) You said you’re not aware of any complementarians who believe the influence of women should be limited. John Piper, who is about as mainstream complementarian as you can get, says exactly this in chapter 1 of Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. For example, on page 51, while he does say women shouldn’t be prohibited from influencing men, the only way he lists in which it is appropriate for a woman to influence a man is through prayer (not directly, in other words). He then says “To the degree that a woman’s influence over man is personal and directive it will generally offend a man’s good, God-given sense of responsibility and leadership, and thus controvert God’s created order.” In his view, if a relationship between a man and woman is very personal (like husband and wife), her influence over him must NOT be “directive.” And he actually claims this is “not necessarily owing to male egotism, but to a natural and good penchant given by God.” It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. 5) The main thing that troubled me was the following comment: “It doesn’t matter if God doesn’t give you a reason, He’s God, you just obey. If He says only people with bald spots can be elders, we should obey it. If He said only people above 5’10’’ or below 5’5’’ inches can be elders, we should obey it.” This sounds pious, but there are serious problems with this mindset/argument. The first is that it’s irrelevant, as you yourself pointed out just prior to this regarding a different argument. The very debate is over whether God did, in fact, command that women cannot be elders. Serious scholars on both sides accept the authority of the Bible and want to follow what it teaches. Saying “if God commanded (insert here), would you obey it?” doesn’t move the debate forward. The second problem, though, is it suggests God makes arbitrary commands. I don’t think you intended it that way, but I think it does nevertheless. I would hope that, if you conclude women cannot be elders, you believe there is some good reason for it (even if you don’t know or understand what it is). Yet, we should not merely blindly obey, but do our best to understand what God commands and why. This is how we grow in knowledge and character. If we say too quickly “God said it, so I’ll just do it and not worry about it”, we miss this opportunity. Ultimately, if you believe God commands something as strange as “elders must have bald spots,” which is more likely: that God actually commanded such a thing (and the reason is beyond our comprehension), or that you’ve misunderstood something? We can’t be too quick to accept something that appears nonsensical or arbitrary. This approach also increases the danger that we will come to wrong conclusions. Instead of trusting God implicitly, as it may seem, what we’re really doing is trusting our own interpretation. The danger of this is self-evident. “If God commanded you to kill someone, would you do it?” “If God commanded you to fly an airplane into a tower, would you do it?” “If God said black people should be owned by white people”, would you accept this? These are unanswerable questions because they are preloaded with ungodly commands. We know they are wrong because we have a conscience and the ability (and obligation) to think through such matters. If I thought the Bible was saying something arbitrary (like only bald or white people can be elders), I would not blindly accept it. I would double and triple check to make sure I understood correctly, and I would demand a high burden of proof before I would accept it. This is what we must do in the debate over women, and this is the reason I reject complementarianism: it utterly fails to meet the biblical burden of proof we ought to demand of it (which would be more obvious if you spent more time presenting complementarian arguments themselves instead of just trying to debunk the antithesis). This is not to say our own understanding should be the final word. Certainly not! But neither does God intend for us to throw out all thought, all logic, all nudges of conscience. I know you would agree that the goal is to THINK biblically. Part 2 coming, this was too long to fit!
@lou894
2 жыл бұрын
I know you wrote this intended for Mike, but, truly, it was a delight reading your words! As a woman deeply drawn to ministry but very unsure of what to do, I'm still highly torn. In no way do I yet know where I truly stand, but you formulated your ideas incredibly well. It does not go unappreciated!
@kirkjohnson6353
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, I love your ministry and have enjoyed learning from all your content. Thank you for being faithful to your gifts and teaching so effectively!
@lancegoodall5911
5 ай бұрын
Ellen G White (SDA) is just one example of this idea of women in ministry where the error of mixing these roles goes awry. 😮 Then we have women like Joyce Myer who are teaching without a proper covering. ( I could say more). Then you have the situation where women will often study books by false teachers such as Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer. “The one who teaches, in HIS teaching”. Is this significant?
@mnelisi
2 жыл бұрын
Would like to know why Mike would say a certain passage like Ephesians 4:11 is talking about “offices and not gifts” or saying in Cor 12:28 that Paul is mixing offices and gifts when scripture doesn’t use the word “office” but uses the word “gift”? Isn’t he in turn limiting the gifts women can have? Is he not also limiting women by replacing a word the Bible clearly uses with a word it doesn’t, that when it does use that word it refers to ministry only men can do?
@davidlavelle2890
2 жыл бұрын
Hope this comment gets to you, Mike, in the midst of all you have to read through. It doesn't deal with this particular video (though it's been awesome beyond words to the praise of God and thanks to you). It concerns your previous one, "Mary the Apostle" and an insight of mine that may help you. When you referred to Burer and Wallace's research concerning the key prepositional phrase in Rom. 16:7b. It really made so much sense to me and I know just beginner scraps in Greek, if even that. After all, how else would one be able to distinguish between the two possible renditions of the phrase in question unless the cases of the relevant words in the phrase were different. If the phrase should be translated outstanding among- that is, residing in the company of the apostles, that indicates a sense of origin. So, the genitive case would seem to fit there. But if the relationship between they and the apostles is more indirect- outstanding with reference to the opinion of the apostles- then I bet the dative would fit communicating such a connection. Now, I don't have a great deal of experience here. The dative seems to cover a wide number of prepositions. But they many times seem to communicate this more indirect relationship between two words or concepts in a greek sentence. Thanks for listening, Mike. I hope this really helps you. See where it takes you. I also sent your team two emails. The first encourages you and gives my full support to take your time in preparing each part of this series. You mentioned that in one of your posts a couple of weeks ago. Just keep doing what you are doing. I also sent an email for when you investigate 1Cor. 11:2-16. It deals particularly with an insight of mine in vv. 11-12. I hope it helps you. Thanks for taking time for me, Mike. Thank you very much, your close friend in Jesus, David Lavelle.
@kjellarneandersson9404
2 жыл бұрын
Your question “did everyone that studied under a rabbi become a rabbi?” is strange, the question should be; Was it common or even possible for a women to take the place “at the feet of a rabbi”?
@trishazeigler92
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, I have been enjoying this series and am prepared to rethink my teaching a Sunday school class if need be. These issues are really important and confuse a lot of people. We recently lost a whole family because the wife got mad that our church allows women teachers (not in an elder role) and doesn't require headcoverings. She attributed her depression and mental issues to demonic oppression that resulted from visiting a holistic Doctor that someone in our church recommended and blames our church for that. Like if we were spiritual enough we could have helped her avoid any attacks from satan. At least those were some of her excuses for going ballistic on some of the members and pastor. It's really sad.
@peterfox7663
2 жыл бұрын
That there are people who think women shouldn't teach blows my mind
@ethanweber6744
Жыл бұрын
It depends on the context and role honestly
@sivad1025
2 жыл бұрын
On the part about prophesy, I think it's important that people like Pharaoh had prophetic dreams. Pharaoh was given a prophesy from God (ultimately interpreted by Joseph), but I don't think anyone would cite Pharaoh as someone worthy of a religious leadership position
@solalabell9674
2 жыл бұрын
nebuchadnezzar too
@snopure
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think you mean to do so, but your argument seems to equate your sisters in Christ with evil, unsaved men. Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Balaam, et al. weren't indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and for them the prophecies were singular instances, not as a gift of the Holy Spirit. A gift of the Holy Spirit wouldn't be just a singular instance, and as Paul said, the gift of prophecy was important to the edification of the church.
@sivad1025
2 жыл бұрын
@@snopure I don't mean to equate anyone with Pharaoh. You're looking for a reason to be upset. My point was to rebut the logic. The logic is, "If able to prophesy, then able to teach theology in a leadership position." As you correctly say, those were singular instances of prophecies. But that only proves my point. God can use _anyone_ to prophesy! Prophesying has no correlation with one's ability to teach theology.
@thejohnsonshomeschooljohns7815
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for bringing up prophetic dreams in non believers; now I need to go to my Bible and look through but, as I was thinking about it, don't all of these dreams need interpretation by believers? As in often believers know what their prophetic visions means, it is revealed to them by God but , although God sends prophetic dreams/visions to unbelievers they do not get the revelation of knowledge to understand them. Going now to look. Again, thank you for a question that will turn me back to my Bible!
@jesselazar2928
2 жыл бұрын
Part 2: 6) This leads to another disappointment, unfortunately. I believe no analysis of this topic is complete without attempting to answer WHY it is that women are disqualified from being elders. Assuming it is not completely arbitrary, what is it about women that makes them unfit to be elders? Your comments in this video seem to indicate you see no need to answer this question. I’ve asked this of complementarians I’ve debated and have never received a good answer. In most cases they refuse to answer or say something circular such as “only men are qualified to be elders because elders must be male.” While it’s not a complete knockdown of the complementarian position, it’s a red flag if someone can give no reason for a particular command or tradition. It’s a sign that, at the very least, we need to dig further. 7) After this, you say it would be “arbitrary” if women could prophesy at a public gathering but not exercise the gifts of word of knowledge or word of wisdom. Do you not realize that you have just disqualified yourself from invoking arbitrariness (if bald spots are not arbitrary, what is?). Your own reasoning now works against you: if God commands that women prophesy in public but not exercise these other gifts, will you accept it? You can’t say you’ll accept something even if it seems arbitrary, then turn around and reject something because it’s arbitrary. 8) And that brings me to my final frustration. I know I’m beating a dead horse here, but this is so important. You continue to rely on 1 Tim. 3 to establish male-only eldership. But you covered this passage only briefly in your previous video and said little about the vast majority of debate or counterpoints about it (such as those I mentioned in my comment on the video). In the Greek, there is NOTHING in this passage that suggests men only. There’s a reason even some complementarians such as Tom Schreiner agree that 1 Tim. 3 cannot be used to establish male-only eldership (see, for example, his review of Payne’s book in the Journal for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, page 35: “The requirements for elders in 1 Tim. 3:1-7 and Titus 1:6-9, including the statement that they are to be one-woman men, does not in and of itself preclude women from serving as elders.” Forgive me, but I think it is disingenuous, especially in a case like this where there is so much information overload, to repeatedly refer back to an earlier point as if it were settled, when it is not. As you said, I DO hope people return to that video to listen to your treatment of this passage, as they will see how incomplete it is (I hope they would refer to my comment as well, or research egalitarian arguments regarding this passage). You make comments such as “(insert here) does not refute male-only eldership.” But I don’t recall you ever clearly establishing male-only eldership, only assuming it. If that is the central point of your position (as it seems to be), you must provide sufficient arguments for it. 9) On a lighter note, though, please don’t get discouraged by all the pushback you receive. It’s impossible to make everyone happy, and no matter what, there will be some who misunderstand what you’re saying. I respect and appreciate all the time and work you’ve put into this, and I think it’s wonderful to have this opportunity to review the comprehensive debate. Publicly debating these things is the best way to move toward the truth and a greater understanding of what the Bible really teaches.
@Cindy-if5zy
2 жыл бұрын
I would also like to hear more on the 1 Timothy 3 passage, particularly in regard to the small number of male pronouns (in Greek) when describing elders, and to why Paul chose the words: "if anyone" instead of "if a man" in 1 Timothy 3:1.
@au7-721
2 жыл бұрын
Paul tells why women shouldn't be in leadership roles in the church.
@au7-721
2 жыл бұрын
@@Cindy-if5zy Paul didn't say if anyone your weak man made Bible said that. Paul very clearly says " if a man" in the KJV. L liberals that wrote your bible probebly were afraid of being labeled something if they had accurately translated this verse.
@Cindy-if5zy
2 жыл бұрын
@@au7-721 Thanks for replying, but I wasn't asking why women should or shouldn't be in leadership roles. The use of pronouns in the original language is a major point of discussion on both sides, and if you want to have an actual conversation, it's helpful to be aware of exactly what Paul said.
@RCGWho
5 ай бұрын
It's just like getting offended about homosexuality. "But why can't I be gay? But why can't I abort my baby?" There is a point you choose to submit to God's design and commands or you don't. Sometimes you just need to obey without fully understanding God and His logic.
@childofgod6476
2 жыл бұрын
If i have to make a comment or an argument, i would say this, it is not only women who are leaders that are persecuted , it is all true followers of jesus christ that are persecuted. Because we have to remember those who are persecuting Christians are being influenced by the devil, so the devil is after all true followers of the Lord Jesus christ (men, women, young , old..) so you don't have to be a leader or influential figure to be persecuted. I am from Eritrea, one of the countries that are famous for persecuting followers of jesus christ, so women, men, young, old .....if they are caught exercising their faith (gathering with fellow Christians in bible study, worship...) they will be thrown to prison.
@michelesweet533
2 жыл бұрын
A number of times I've been given a prophecy for a congregation that I'm visiting for the first time. Each time I have written it down, gone up to the side of the front or sent the friend who invited me, to submit it to the pastor to consider, as led by the Holy Spirit. Looking back upon these events, I'm struck by how safe I felt in operating in my gifts, under the protective covering of the authority structure, which is designed to protect the flock and the person given the prophesy. Haha, also the pastors were able to read it, giving me anonymity, sparing me all the responsibility that public speaking can entail. If some folks in a new congregation come to know you have a type of gift...word of wisdom, knowledge and/ or prophesy...well, too often than not, they flock to you for a "word from God". This is not how the Holy Spirit works...it's akin to treating The Almighty God, like your butler, where you pull the cord and He arrives at your command. It is at this juncture the gifted and the one asking for a sign or a personal word, supernaturally, that both parties often unwittingly stumble into the snare of divination, the counterfeit. It is important for the one being asked to teach those asking the difference. By pointing them immediately to the The Living Word, reading their Bible and making daily personal quiet time/prayer with Jesus, you are able to encourage them about the very real benefits of having a surrendered commitment to following Jesus. "My sheep will hear my voice and they will follow Me." Teaching them to "fish" instead of trying to pull one out of your metaphorical magic hat. Huge problem in the body of Christ today with the forbidden areas of divination, the territory of the occult, passing for unadulterated spiritual gifting. Sadly rampant.
@stephenbailey9969
2 жыл бұрын
The professional pastor/teacher/head of a local church is as much a modern formulation as is the idea of women as pastor-teachers. The Biblical, NT congregations were to be real communities with elders (presbyters/episkopoi) as a local leadership body, where some might teach and others might pastor, each according to the skills that the Spirit provided. Diakonoi = ministering servants, assisted the elders. But where the numbers were smaller, such as a house church, then whoever was available was used by the Spirit. The point: Christ is the head, we are all members, and the organizational systems generated across the centuries are simply useful tools for the Spirit to get his work done.
@roseannapresley762
2 жыл бұрын
I so agree. “Jockeying” for positions does not seem to come from God. He is the Giver of all good gifts…it is indeed a mystery. Why would He give a gift to preach/minister and teach and then forbid one to use that gift?
@ArcticBlits
2 жыл бұрын
@@roseannapresley762 I don’t know, I do know what the scriptures teach. I definitely see God using the exception when He sees fit so I’m not saying that there aren’t exceptions at least for a time. Only that they are just that, exceptions. Deciding God is either wrong or that can’t be what He means takes His sovereignty away.
@thebiblemind4266
2 жыл бұрын
I'd agree with you that the professional pastor/teacher/head of the local church or elder, that combination, is a modern formulation. But, if women can be teachers, then that started in the New Testament, at the outset. The parts of the body, gifts of the spirit, and the leadership gifts of Ephesians 4 are all gender-inclusive, not exclusive.
@stephenbailey9969
2 жыл бұрын
@@thebiblemind4266 As the Spirit seems to be using women in various types of ministry today, including pastoral and leadership, then I'm not going to second guess. (I've known two such Spirit-filled women who could perform those responsibilities as well as any man, and better than most.) I don't believe the Spirit is just going to wait around for a man to show up when he wants to deliver souls from the chains of sin. He'll use who he has in the field right there. Sometimes that might be female. And, we here in the West no longer live in the world of Paul's day where a woman in leadership would have been socially unacceptable, a hindrance to the spreading of the gospel. It doesn't affect a person's salvation one way or the other. So, I'll just leave it with the Lord. As long as the preacher is focused on Jesus Christ and him crucified.
@thebiblemind4266
2 жыл бұрын
@@stephenbailey9969 Yes, for sure. As I mentioned to another person, it's likely there are more women than men out in the mission field doing the work of the ministry: evangelizing, shepherding, ministering, and teaching the people, etc. Yes, it's practical to allow women to minister. But, beyond that, I believe you can make a strong Biblical case for women in ministry. I also think we'd be remiss, if we didn't take into account cultural and church-specific issues that influenced what Paul wrote in the so-called "problem passages," regarding women in ministry. It's hard to believe when people say those things have no bearing on interpretation.
@lisacox7965
2 жыл бұрын
Mike why do you say prophet doesn’t have an office in the New Testament church? What do you do with Eph. 4:11&12?
@justincburns
2 жыл бұрын
How would you define Elder role in contemporary churches? Simply what most churches call “lead/head pastor?” The top dog essentially? Can a church have multiple “Elders”? Like how churches have “lead pastor” “executive pastor” are these all Elder roles?
@amishgirl1000
2 жыл бұрын
Women are given gifts of leading and teaching, but they have different roles to use them in the church. Women can lead other women, and they can use their gift of teaching to teach other women. The Same gifts for all, but used in different roles for men and women.
@janeEyreAddict
2 жыл бұрын
Mike maybe you said this in a previous video or this one and I just missed it, but I'm confused about prophecy and what it actually means? Thank you so much for such an in depth study of this topic!!
@RCGWho
5 ай бұрын
Mainline churches and cessationists (Dallas Theoligical Seminary etc.) don't practice this. On Charismatic churches that I've attended, prophecy is of 3 types. One is the office of a prophet. They actually give words to the body or an individual. They must be tested: do their prophecies come to pass and are the biblically sound. Second, there are words of knowledge. They're like mini prophecies with insight. In personal evangelism, you might feel like Gid is telling you something about a person's life or pasr or health. When they are accurate, the person will often weep and be open to the gospel or prayer. Third, there are prophecies that are not predictive....I would they you would all prophesy, as Paul says. These are biblically faithful words of edification, encouragement, and comfort. These are the working definitions I've been taught anyway.
@rebeccaoushana9657
2 жыл бұрын
I have a question: So you believe that it's ok for a woman to preach on Sunday morning from the pulpit? I'm just trying to understand as that is one of the biggest things I'm wrestling with at the moment as our church allows it and at this point I don't know if it's biblical as she is teaching men as well and Timothy states that he will not allow a woman to teach or have authority over a man, and I think preaching oversteps the boundary of prophesying, but that's just my take at this stage.
@Andrew-uh2er
2 жыл бұрын
Always making incredible, Biblically backed, resources. Thanks for your ministry, Mike!
@himmel-erdeundzuruck5682
Жыл бұрын
Women can't teach and lead, but they can serve in other roles - well . There was a time when I thought like that. But then I realized: Every church allows ministry on children. Children are taught, and men usually do not want to do that job. Doing sunday school for children, I teach them and I am holding a real sunday service for the kids, in the sense, that God takes for serious. If you teach otherwise, you just do not take the kids for serious as being christians with their need of praying to God and to learn from God. So even the catholic church which is strictest at this point, allows women to teach children and to hold a sunday service for them. In this case, women are allowed to read the gospel, which they aren't with grown ups. That's totally inconsistent. Other Roles: My gift and duty is that of a evangelist and missionary. So what? Will you prevent women from spreading the Gospel or do you define that as "not preaching", whereas it is exactly this: preaching with all means. Prisca and Aquila worked together as missionaries, and so did Junia with her husband. Holding sunday services and preaching, usually the main point of a pastor, is at least so long part of the role of a missionary, until a pastor is being installed. By seeing all this, I realised, that this is showing the work of hypocrites. Being a hypocrit for sure is against the will of Jesus, no discussion about it. I realised more things. E.g. in Israel, the man covers his head, the woman not. That what they do until today. (With Tamar, she even veiled her face to pretend to be a prostitute, which means, by that time only prostitutes were veiled...). But Paul, when talking about women, he just says the contrary. Why that? Has he never been in Israel? Of course he was there, and the men covered their heads. But he did not cover his head in Greece. And even said that a man covering his head would be a disgrace to God. How can he say so? Only one answer is possible: cultural adaption: In Israel, covering the head meant exactly the same thing as not covering your head in Greece. i.e. to show respect to God. To behave like a man and not like a woman. And with the women the other way round: In Kanaan, the prostitutes veiled their faces, and only offered their bodies. In Greece a prostitute would uncover her hair. In Israel, a normal woman would not cover her hair. In Greece a good woman would cover her hair. - So what? As this is in the same context as the role of men and women, and as the role of women in the sunday service - well, Paul adds: People shall not look down on the gospel because of our behaviour. So this is all about what Paul said about himself: Being a jew to the jews and a greek to the greek. In our culture, withholding women from speaking in front of others - that makes the gospel look bad. In our culture, a leader's team without a woman - that makes the gospel look bad. So what? I finally understood, that I was wrong, and that I don't have to have stomach ache for teaching kids or teenagers, and that it is totally ok to preach as a woman, especially for being an evangelist, as this is my calling. At least in our culture. Nobody will take us for prostitutes just for talking with men. Last but not least: Also a true thing in many nations: If the children don't shout the praise of Jesus, the stones will. If the men don't shout the praise of Jesus, the women will. Even as preachers. It is not at all about human ranking, not even about human ranking at biblical times. It is all about Jesus, and it is all about preaching the gospel to those who never heard it. And this together, with all gifts, and with all persons in that church. What ever will help Jesus to be welcomed by others, this we will have to do. What ever will prevent others to come to Jesus, this is wrong. It's as easy as that.
@janeEyreAddict
2 жыл бұрын
PLEASE GIVE "THE HEAD COVERING MOVEMENT" A SOLID STUDY FOR WHEN YOU GET TO THE HEAD COVERING PASSAGES!! The founder has a book on the subject of Headcovering for the modern day and I hope dearly that you can reference it!! Also perhaps giving a look at Anabaptist theology since the Amish/Mennonites are pretty much the only denominations that still practice it.
@FaithfulOverLittle
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Mike - are you keeping an archive/backup of your videos on a website that isn’t controlled by big tech? I feel like an archive like that would be a treasure for us in case of big tech taking your videos down in the future.
@judylloyd7901
2 жыл бұрын
Just a note: Jesus was not being brought to the temple to be circumcised. Circumcision was performed on the 8th day, probably in the home. The trip to the temple was for the offering at the time of His mother's purification, 40 days after the birth of a male child (80 days for a female child). See Luke 2:22; Leviticus 12:2-8.
@bjs4360
2 жыл бұрын
Correct
@b1gpapan3cr04
Жыл бұрын
@Mike winger thank you for the lengths you go to strengthen our adelphoi. Listening to this message during point 3, I thought of Matthew 5:20, and have started using some scriptures you cited about universal priesthood to craft a sermon about what exactly Jesus might have meant in Matt5:20. It will be in the works for awhile. Curious if you have done study on that verse and if so, what it was called so i could use it for reference? This is for a small study group we do on Wed/Sun
@salvadaXgracia
2 жыл бұрын
Another great video! Mike I wonder if you have considered either turning this into a book or letting someone else edit your videos into a book by you. It would be a helpful resource especially if youtube goes done the tubes or censores everything someday!
@mariannefuchs4774
2 жыл бұрын
Yes ! That would be amazing !! It’s very helpful to be able to look things up in written form I find, especially when an argument is unfolded.
@Hope8x28
2 жыл бұрын
I know it's not the same as what you're wanting, but if you look under the description box of every video, there is a written transcript. I use them often with Mike's teachings. I often listen while doing other tasks and then return to the transcript to mark down Scripture references, notes, names of scholars he quoted, etc...
@mariannefuchs4774
2 жыл бұрын
@@Hope8x28 Thanks for the info :) I’ll check it out !
@VinnyVidiVintage
2 жыл бұрын
What if there is no man that will do the role? What if the woman pastor/shepherd/teacher even as a “lead pastor” is under a board of elders/men who have appointed her to the lead pastor position.
@pitermarx
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Mike for the series. I find myself in agreement with you for most points. One question that keeps popping into my mind is what exactly is the role of the elder/senior pastor/bishop. If this is the single role exclusive to men, what exactly are it's distinctive characteristics? As you have demonstrated it's not leading or teaching, since there are other ways to use those abilities without the role. I think this can be a helpful question to answer on the series.
@thebiblemind4266
2 жыл бұрын
Where does it explicitly state in the Bible that the elder is the pastor, or vice-versa, or even that pastor AND teacher should be combined assignment? It doesn't. Combining these categories of roles is man's invention.
@Maria-pf5it
Жыл бұрын
Mike, hi, appreciate your heart and thorough work. Just one item I'd like to submit, that being the point you made in another video regarding that women cannot judge prophecy. I think there are two difficulties with this. One 1 Cor. 14 states, "Let the prophets speak two or...three, and let the others judge." It's says "let 'the others' judge," not "let the men judge." Furthermore, what of the situation where there is a gathering of non-cessationist women, say a women's service/conference etc., and someone prophesies, your view would make it impossible for anyone to judge it
@thealexmarriott
2 жыл бұрын
Argument 2: The former demoniac wasn't being trained to be a rabbi over the course of an afternoon, he was being trained to be an evangelist. He was sent back to his town to teach people about the power of thekingdom of God. This is still ministry training and does not disqualify this argument for women in ministry.
@brysonevans7367
2 жыл бұрын
It doesn't disqualify woman in ministry, it takes away the argument that woman can be elders/rabbis.
@thealexmarriott
2 жыл бұрын
@@brysonevans7367 No, it reinforces it because sitting at the feet is still referencing ministry training.
@brysonevans7367
2 жыл бұрын
@@thealexmarriott Woman are apart of ministry, Mike agrees that woman can teach, prophecy, and do many things in the ministry. But they cannot be elders, to sit at the feet of someone(learning in general) does not mean you can have the highest level of authority in a church. The two aren't related.
@brysonevans7367
2 жыл бұрын
@Jon Dewey See the problem is you're viewing the issue based on denominations and their views instead of the word of God(the scriptures). Mike Winger isn't making his arguments and rebuttals based on what the denominations/traditions are, but what the scripture says. Also most denominations, especially the Catholic church, have women as not being a high authority. Christians shouldn't get their knowledge from what different traditions dictate, but by studying the word of God. No matter what you think of the issue, you can't say Mike Winger(and I don't think you did) isn't getting his viewpoint from scripture.
@RCGWho
5 ай бұрын
@@thealexmarriottI don't think sitting at Jesus ' feet " implies" ministry training. It demonstrates love, devotion, humility, teachability, and a willingness to choose the most important thing, ie time with the Lord, over the distractions and duties Martha was more concerned about.
@sisgp123
2 жыл бұрын
Seems were trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted. As with so many other issues today.
@Drakemiser
2 жыл бұрын
Deborah was one of the first judges.
@codym6376
2 жыл бұрын
And Noah made a boat. Are we just stating random Bible trivia? If you go to the second video in the “Women in Ministry “ series I believe it was the one about all the women in the Old Testaments and he discusses Deborah.
@jayahn123
Жыл бұрын
Additionally, the breadth of Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 still stand and is relevant from the times of OT, NT, today and until the end of time. Also, wouldn't menstrual cycles and discharges (not always so predictable) of relevance as they couldn't even be near the temple during these times...
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
Two things: 1) you keep saying you don't understand why this is such a problem, women not being allowed to be pastors; you are perfectly happy serving within the limits of your skill, passion, and calling. As a way to explain (and hopefully provide a more charitable understanding), it's a big deal to some women because a) women receive the same gifts and skills men have (which you've covered in this video, I know) and yet they're limited because of their gender and men are not, and b) the way we've structured our churches is very business-like in most cases, and we don't seem to always value the importance of women the same way we value the importance of men. We too often model the pastorship after the position of a CEO instead of after a father, or whatever we're supposed to model it after (STILL LEARNING AND OPEN TO CORRECTION) (and what is the Church position for the "mother" or "ezer kenegdo" to complement the "father" or male role?) 2) I listened to a story a group of male elders told about how they all met together and made an elder decision for their church that they believed to be wise and good. They all went home after and talked about this decision with their wives, and each wife thought it was a terrible decision. The elders met again the next day and changed their decision because of the wisdom and counsel of their wives. Couldn't this have been handled more effectively with women in leadership to complement the male voices at the meeting?
@newreformationapologetics4953
2 жыл бұрын
For your second point: I don't think that giving counsel is the same things as being a leader. Does the counselor to the king have the same authority as the king? Surely not. The counselor is someone wise with insight on such matters but has no authority of the people. As for your first answer I'm not sure where to start. The complimentarian nature of a spouse is just that as a spouse; between a man and a woman. As the Bible states a woman may not be a leader of men in terms of eldership in the church. Also if you want to talk about natural gifts what about the woman's natural gifts to support and raise a child, more specifically the anatomy of a woman? I do agree that the church should not be a business in the sense of trying to just improve margins, however we surely cannot expect people to be not paid for such hard labor as pastors and elder, worship leaders, ect. That would be a great evil to withhold what a man is owed in work.
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
@@newreformationapologetics4953 thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I really appreciate the time you took to read my comments and then write out a reply. I hope you don't mind sharing your thoughts on a couple points. I promise I'm not pushing any agenda, just trying to work things out thoughtfully as I make sense of them in my mind. I'll take your correction on my story, you make a fair point. I'll grant you that a counselor is not the same as one in a position of authority. What would it look like for the wisdom of women to be held in high regard in relation to a board of elders in a church? what would it look like for our churches to value the importance of women as well as the importance of men in equal but distinct ways? //The complementarian nature of a spouse is just that as a spouse; between a man and a woman.// Do Adam and Eve represent *just* husband and wife, or do they represent all men and all women as well? And could you explain your point here further? //As the Bible states a woman may not be a leader of men in terms of eldership in the church.// Okay, so here's the part I'm trying to understand. What is the corresponding and opposite role of women within leadership, or within the structure of the church in general? Why did God create a female voice (and women reflect God's character and nature in ways men do not) if that voice does not carry the same weight as a man's voice? Or is this a much deeper issue of how we view authority, and how that authority is held and exercised within the church and family? //Also if you want to talk about natural gifts what about the woman's natural gifts to support and raise a child, more specifically the anatomy of a woman?// I don't disagree, but I don't see what that has to do with a woman's role in the church? What about women who are *not* naturally gifted to support and raise a child? What about women who do not bear children? What about single women? Do we reduce men to their biological function in the same way? What about men's natural gifts to sire and be a father to their children? Does that limit their roles in the church the same way a woman's biology limits hers? How so? //however we surely cannot expect people to be not paid for such hard labor as pastors and elder, worship leaders, ect. That would be a great evil to withhold what a man is owed in work.// what about all the hard work women do for the church? should they not also be compensated for their work? Again, just trying to thoughtfully understand. We should be allowed to ask questions and seek answers. I'm not trying to push an agenda, I'm just trying to understand.
@newreformationapologetics4953
2 жыл бұрын
@@nicoleparsons7630 OK lol this response might take a while and I'm at work so I can't go that deep into it yesterday bear with me😅 BTW I do see your point with women being influences on their elder husband's specifically. They should be influential to them since they have become one flesh(: Give me some time to respond to the rest.
@newreformationapologetics4953
2 жыл бұрын
@@nicoleparsons7630 OK as for the first part I think theologically Adam, since he is the head of the house and the one God saw as to be responsible for the fall and deception of the woman (not saying the woman couldn't have said no, but because only Adam was told not to eat of the tree directly by God). Secondly I do think that our physical abilities have just as much to do with our role in a church as our spiritual gifts. After all in our weakness we are made strong by the Lord. We shouldn't be grieved by our limitations whether by birth or by circumstances moving forward with eternal peace/reward in mind. I would say grow where you're planted with careful thought on how we ought to behave as people of God. Thirdly I think women should be paid just as men if their work warrants payment just as men do. Of course we as the body should also be charitable and take care of the widows and outcast in a gentle manner, befitting of the body of Christ. (Which should be done with wisdom and discernment since we know that people can be wicked, not saying we ought to be skeptical just not a fool.) Above all both men and women should exercise a healthy fear of the Lord and follow the standards of the Bible.
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
@@newreformationapologetics4953 thank you! I agree with most of what you've said. And I'll be upfront, I'm happily a stay at home mom who homeschools her kids, and I'm also the family discipleship director (volunteer position) at our church. I'm not asking these questions to try to leverage any position, just trying to understand fully. You're thoughts on blooming in the season we're planted in is spot on, I think. Honestly, I think we misunderstand authority and the role of pastors. Like I said in the OP, I think this conversation really boils down to how we structure our churches. There's so much celebrity culture, so much focus on who gets to make all the final decisions and who gets to have the final say, so much emphasis on the 45 minutes the pastor speaks. What would it look like to structure our churches more like family units instead of Sunday morning events? I wonder if dealing with those issues would more easily resolve the women in ministry questions.
@LaynesMomma
2 жыл бұрын
What is the NT definition of prophecy? We need to all be on the same page. As titles and positions of the Bible have been misunderstood, so has the definitions of gifts - including prophecy.
@Cindy-if5zy
2 жыл бұрын
I've wondered the same thing! Are egalitarians exaggerating the value and utility of prophesying to open doors for women? Are complementians devaluting prophecy in order to close the door on women teaching in church?
@HopeKuhn
2 жыл бұрын
This was a very good teaching, thanks so much Pastor Mike for all your hard work and doing this to bless us, and making it available for free! I love the Royal priesthood stuff in scripture 😃💜, that it’s for everyone in Christ because Jesus is every believers mediator between them and God. I also enjoyed the teaching you did on that in the 1 Peter series! Also wanted to mention in response because I thought this was great and it goes with what you said: my Pastor taught his church members (anyone who was a member and wanted to learn it) a course in systematic theology (and my sister was one of the people) because he wanted to make sure his church had right theology, and also the elders to have right theology, and they did a good job making sure that the elders were men that are able to teach and have the qualities an elder should have. I always found both your teaching and his to always line up 😀👍🏻
@dantosinferne
Жыл бұрын
I'm only 1:14:00 in or so, but I had to say this has been a very interesting explanation of your perspective. I struggle to understand limitations on speech that are often taught in religions and directed quite heavily towards women. It just never makes sense to me. However while listening to you speak, I realized that, at least the Bible very well could have been speaking about 'kinds' of speech and silence. Something lost in translation, as well as many generations of cultural changes. My thought was that 'prophecy' wasn't actually "vocal God puppeteering" as I always thought, but more "truth-speaking". Mindful speech, aimed at the glorification of God, which God strengthens/imbues with holy spirit. And so that kind of speech would be classified as prophecy, different from just "talking to talk", and that commands for silence from women in public wasn't about not saying anything at all, but more about not rambling and chattering about inane nonsense, noise for self-glorification rather than God's. That makes sense to me, although could still be abused, and I can see why it would be important to teach that to women. Men don't really prattle on, they're generally speaking towards something. Women often speak to put words to thoughts and experiences, for good reason sometimes but not so much with a goal in mind, so it often becomes pretty self-worshipy. since all that chatter is more about clarifying their own self rather than recognition of God and humilty. It's not 100% ofc but I definitely see more women fall prey to vocal narcissism than men. Thank you for tackling this difficult topic. I'm generally uncomfortable with traditional roles due to the deep power imbalance, but I never liked female pastors and couldn't figure out why. Felt funny about my female teachers too. And female bosses. They could be wonderful people but something always seemed off about a woman being in that kind of position. I still don't get it, but I've gotta try. Men can't quite explain it in a way women can understand, and it's like water to a fish to women lol gonna keep studying it to help bridge the divide. Bless
@8784-l3b
Жыл бұрын
you wrote: ...but I never liked female pastors and couldn't figure out why. Felt funny about my female teachers too. And female bosses. I don't believe these matters can be understood unless Deborah is understood first. Reply if you want my short essay on her.
@patrickblend
2 жыл бұрын
First off, thank you so much for your hard work on this topic. It has been tremendously enjoyable and edifying! Here's my push back: I would call a husband a "type" of priest in the home, not in the sense of mediation between his wife and God, but in that he is responsible for the spiritual direction of the household. Perhaps a better way to say it is to pursue spiritual prosperity for his family - not to "acquire" it, but to lead unto it. I think you could go further, stating that a husband ought to be a type of prophet (directing the family to obey the word of God) and king (protecting and leading with righteousness and justice). The distinctions I want to make are that it's a "type" in the sense that it ultimately points TO Christ, not takes from Him, and that the family is a separate authority structure from the church.
@tompfister9951
2 жыл бұрын
I thought similarly however I heard man be the prophet of the home. But prophets should be perfect in the gift, but man is not perfect in the home. I don’t feel that’s a great comparison if you will.” Some husbands still get stoned verbally for not being perfect in the home lol. However husbands are to be Christlike of the home as head.
@patrickblend
2 жыл бұрын
@@tompfister9951 I would not say a Prophet, but prophetic as in forth-telling the word of God. In that sense we are all supposed to be prophetic to the world around us. Perhaps Mike is right and the terms are more trouble than they're worth to make the correct distinctions 🤷♂🙂
@tompfister9951
2 жыл бұрын
To prophecy is to pre-tell. I think the word prophecy or prophetic has gotten outta wack. For example to encourage or exhort or affirm is a better term. The big word in marriage is cherish. Which is I think in common wedding vows. Can’t remember off the top of my head. But I would suggest dive deeper and ask ourselves where does the word prophetic originate. Is it even a biblical term. It sounds like kind of prophet, which doesn’t seem to exist. In the Bible you were a prophet or not.(duet. 18) maybe this might be a good discussion for him to make a video on. There’s a whole debate on whether you can prophecy and be wrong, under grace... I wouldn’t trust a false gps anymore than a false prophet..
@tompfister9951
2 жыл бұрын
Although a pastor/priest is responsible for their flock a man is responsible as Adam for his wive and home...
@PinkieJoJo
2 жыл бұрын
I see people speaking all of the time about how women cannot be pastors yet there are a ton of apologists on YT that are women. So what’s the difference? Honest question. Why is it felt this is ok but a woman being a pastor isn’t?
@PinkieJoJo
2 жыл бұрын
@@alexhamilton624 I don’t see any of them as my pastor but yes, as you said so many do. And if not, they come very close to one for many. So it really confuses me.
@nadianath4177
2 жыл бұрын
So grateful for this series. Thanks Mike.
@jayahn123
Жыл бұрын
12 Disciples, Gethsemane, Last supper and Not being arrested at the Cross, Mark's upper room strengthens the argument. Additionally, Jesus nor Paul spoke nor wrote about promoting ANY women to Elders and Priests. In fact, the opposite...
@8784-l3b
Жыл бұрын
I suggest my short essay on Deborah. A Judge was the most important spiritual leader during that time period according to scripture. _______________________________________________________ And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by people, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. -excerpts 1 Peter 2
@marthathompson2012
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this extensive work on the topic! I’ve waited a long time to hear an honest and thorough discussion on this! I’m really enjoying it! Appreciate your ministry so much! Keep up the good work!
@masteringfibromyalgia
Жыл бұрын
as a woman follower of Christ, I want to be biblical and true to God's word, there was a reason Paul wrote what he wrote. At the same time I don't want to be subjected to the tyranny of males who claim to follow Christ yet live in secret rebellion to His word. But, this is a man's world, no matter the achievements we have made in our nation towards women's rights. And biblically speaking, it is hard to be a woman period! We hate submitting to ungodly men who claim they follow Christ when obviously they are lying. the corruption within the Church is astounding, and if men are not standing up against it, who will? I wanted to say something about a pastor that I completely lost respect for when I found out about his affair with the church secretary, I was told by another woman in leadership to keep my mouth shut. I respected her wishes but I didn't believe it was right. Eventually the church fell apart even with a new pastor. More sexual corruption entered in with a youth minister. Finally, my own husband followed along the path and left me for another woman within the church. These people did not support me in admonishing his behavior, that same woman told me not to make them choose between me and him. Why it took that statement to nail the coffin shut, IDKW, but I never socialized with them again. How do we find any church to fellowship when too many men AND women clearly go against God's word. I'm never going to find perfect, I just want genuine, real, and honest. I don't give a church a second chance anymore, once they cross the line drawn in the sand, I turn and walk away. they don't want to listen to the truth. And I have no authority to hold anyone accountable or convince them right from wrong. Who am I? Not only am I just a woman, I am also too strict with what the gospel is, I have no credence in their minds. We need more godly men to step up against the atrocities of the Church, instead of bowing to false leadership and doctrine. Where are these men? I realize my comment looks full of bitterness and anger, I am complaining. I have been fooled too many times by church leadership. I have been to many different kinda of churches. which one is of the lesser evils? it's getting to a point where going to church is no longer fellowshipping with other believers.
@8784-l3b
Жыл бұрын
Sorry. Complementarianism is a false teaching. The scriptures are clear on that. I post a lot on this subject.
@HashimWarren
2 жыл бұрын
1:46:44 one of the things I don't understand is since my church tradition invented roles that don't cleanly map on to the offices in the NT, why do we also map on restrictions for women?
@timothyschreiber8338
2 жыл бұрын
We don't, but the Bible does. There's also things women do that men can't. God made men and women to be different, and it's a beautiful thing. :-)
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
@@timothyschreiber8338 what can women do that men can't? (Besides birthing children because that's a biological function and both men and women are more than that) genuine question seeking answers, not trying to be snarky or make a point.
@apracity7672
2 жыл бұрын
@@nicoleparsons7630 Why do you say « besides giving birth » as if thats not the most important and fundamental difference between men and women? All other differences pale in comparison to this cornerstone that is motherhood
@nicoleparsons7630
2 жыл бұрын
@@apracity7672 how does that apply to the roles men and women have in church? What can a woman do in church that a man cannot? Women have gifts and skills outside of their capacity to birth children. It's a beautiful and important role, but I don't understand how that limits women, but the capacity to be a father doesn't limit men (or if it does, then that's what I'm desperately trying to understand)
@joshsimpson10
2 жыл бұрын
@@nicoleparsons7630 this is an example as to why women shouldn't be leading congregations. Emotion is a foundation of sand.
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