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@almightysamwhich4203
Жыл бұрын
I loved this video
@Sacto1654
Жыл бұрын
I liked this video because you gave extensive description of the crew resource management issues that caused the crash. Essentially, overriding a lot of the safety features that were installed in light of the BAC 1-11 prototype crash was a huge contributing factor in this tragedy.
@willr6887
Жыл бұрын
I REALLY enjoyed how you teased the next episode at the end! Not always possible to link incidents, but I really hope you do more of that moving forward. 😁
@auntbarbara5576
Жыл бұрын
Aunt Barbara adores you!
@lxdimension
Жыл бұрын
What is the other accident? The only other 2 I know are lockerbie in 1988 and british midland a few weeks later in 1989, and this is my own country! lol. If there were any more other than that involving full size airliners, that would be interesting to know about. I pretty sure we haven't had any more major airliner crashes on british soil since 1989 which is an incredible record (unless someone wants to correct me?)
@bassett_green
Жыл бұрын
Imagine being on a plane that is crashing and having to come to terms with the fact that your last few hours on earth were spent in Heathrow
@DaveG-qd6ug
Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@jonimestas9692
Жыл бұрын
Wow! Just wow! In tears. Just how???
@WhiteWolf-lm7gj
Жыл бұрын
@@jonimestas9692 Well you see, they went to the airport in Heathrow, and then they died.
@dosidicusgigas1376
Жыл бұрын
Dude 😂
@HIOAZA1523
Жыл бұрын
☠️💀
@BritishBeachcomber
Жыл бұрын
Back in the day, I flew on that first flight, a Trident, to use Autoland. The Captain, calmly, and in an understated British way, said, welcome to London Heathrow Airport. I am pleased to announce that this beautiful aircraft just landed itself...
@lilcam-qk9mp
Жыл бұрын
That must have been awesome. I live in the US so the only British planes I ever encountered were BAE146 and concorde but I miss the trident, bac111, etc
@MrAvant123
11 ай бұрын
BA used to announce "this was an autolanding" for quite a while until it either got boring or the jobsworths at BA thought it might upset the nervous...
@gooner72
10 ай бұрын
We DID have many manufacturers who designed and built some of the most beautiful and technologically advanced aircraft in history but, unfortunately for us, Boeing don't like competition and they did and still do, everything they can to get rid of its competition. 🇬🇧✌️
@beenaplumber8379
8 ай бұрын
@@gooner72 Not everything. They still maintain a culture of profit over safety and deliver unsafe aircraft. They subcontract everything (including quality control). Notice the focus on the manufacturers of the 737 door plug? They have found a way to make safety the responsibility of others. We still don't know what happened, but that's Boeing's current business model. Mark my words - the 787 Dreamliner is next. I believe it's the most widely subcontracted aircraft in the world, and no one has the ability to oversee all of its quality control, least of all the FAA. It's a cheap and profitable way to make a plane, and a great way to avoid responsibility when Boeing can say they didn't manufacture the part that failed.
@RaptorFromWeegee
7 ай бұрын
@@gooner72 Boeing built better aircrafts, thats why they outsold the competition. Nobody forced anyone to buy 727s, they bought them because they were the superior aircraft. And they made money. They built 1,832 of them! Everybody, including Airbus, outsources aspects of an aircrafts construction. eg: Pratt & Whitney makes the engines for the 727, not Boeing. The 737-max was perfectly well built, but the carriers weren't training their pilots the right way to handle the new safety systems. Its the carriers responsibility to follow procedures correctly. After all, Boeings not in the airline business, they're in the airplane building business. So stop hating on Boeing. The De Havilland Comet exploded in midair on a pretty much regular basis. Why? Because it was poorly designed, perhaps by the same guys who designed the Jaguars electrical systems back in the 60s. It also got rushed forward prematurely, unlike the 707, DC-8, and Convair-880.
@tullyDT
Жыл бұрын
Depending on just how worked up the captain got it's quite possible that he was still caught up in the argument which distracted him. I remember in an old job, a manager who had it in for me called me into the building as I was leaving to attend a meeting, just to chew me out over a non-issue. I was furious replaying the incident over and over in my head, so much so that I didn't notice a stop sign and almost crashed.
@johnstudd4245
Жыл бұрын
I have read other accounts of this disaster and one of them said that a witness overhearing the argument stated that it was among the most violent outbursts he had ever heard, or something to that effect. As you alluded to, something like that does not just go away in a short period of time, and definitely affects your normal thought processes and concentration.
@damienhill6383
Жыл бұрын
@@johnstudd4245 Agree, I read similar, Capt. Keys was extremely angry and red-faced from the encounter .
@tullyDT
Жыл бұрын
@johnstudd4245 and in that situation if his crewmates noticed him making a mistake thry might have been afraid to speak up, or he could have reacted with anger to being warned instead of listening to them.
@johnstudd4245
Жыл бұрын
@@tullyDT Not just fearful to speak up, but they were part of the argument also. They could very well have been just as disturbed as the Captain.
@dasdasdatics420
Жыл бұрын
As a long distance truck driver I can confirm that misunderstanding and quarrels can indeed affect your ability to control your truck and end up making mistakes which you wouldn't normally do. I'm relieved that near misses helped me through these rare occasions and my lucky escapades certainly warned me of the unforeseen hazards of my job. Pity about this incident though.
@ual737ret
Жыл бұрын
Here I am as a retired airline Captain and I’m still learning something new. I was not familiar with the Trident. I was impressed by the fact that it was the first auto land certified airliner and it had that style yoke which I first encountered in the Embraer Brasilia. The moving map display was also a surprise.
@gosborg
Жыл бұрын
It was an advanced plane for its day. I flew in one several times as a passenger. It was comfortable and fast by today’s standards. I got to experience its auto-land capability flying into Heathrow once. I couldn’t see the ground until it was over the runway and about to land. No other aircraft was moving in or out of Heathrow that day.
@dthomas9230
Жыл бұрын
I was a F/A and used to fly 727-100s and 200s. DC-8s and DC-10s, 747SPs, and 707s. The 727 100's tail stairs saved DB Cooper and an inflight airflow lock was installed. I just saw another clip after a failed take-off due to flaps never deployed and the Capt said on a following flight "To all flap watchers, they are set to xxxx". Another safety feature on checklists further down in many cases but initiated early in some accidents was the APU and TOGO for an engine failure or bird strike. They always seem to come up on a check list anyhow but if one already experienced a failure sequence check list the safer results showed them engaged before the checklists are even retrieved. I had lost an engine on a DC-8 so I knew when our 767 had lost an engine after takeoff. #1 was burning the fuel in the lines left after shutdown and usually burnout but I called the C/P in front of the Pax watching the flames and asked how long should we wait to fire the engine's fire suppression that only works once and won't douse fuel. "2 minutes" was the instruction. mentourspilot.com on KZitem is an excellent source for flight accident reviews and a learning experience for me.
@dthomas9230
Жыл бұрын
Suppose a commercial carrier had to land at an an alternate with too short of a runway to take off from after safely landing. Pax are safe and rerouted via regional prop jets but the commercial jet when grounded is losing money. Can a jet with reverse thrusters on at the runway start with blocks in back of the tires achieve enough thrust when the buckets are removed? With no pax and a light fuel load to a nearby airport would a possible slingshot boost be feasible?
@ual737ret
Жыл бұрын
@@dthomas9230 It would depend on the weight whether the aircraft had enough runway to take off safely. If it couldn’t, then it would have to be taken apart and trucked out. There have been cases where this has happened. As far as this boost you are talking about, no.
@dthomas9230
Жыл бұрын
@@ual737ret I saw a cable launch booster for aircraft on carriers and now rockets in place of solid booster initiation so the rocket is already flying when the propellant ignites with more thrust as less weight from the solid fuel tank. Cable shooting a commercial plane has its own issues unless it had a hook or planned on flying with the nose gear down once it is used for cable launch. If the runway was like CLT on a mountain top you're already airborne at the end of the runway. Taking the wings off and cargo IS best. But, running the numbers with thrust at full before releasing brakes and the reverse thrusters I thought the engine would require less time to reach full speed, (planes don't burn rubber like dragsters, but powering up and timing how long to take off speed from initial Take off roll would be an interesting exercise with various configurations. Plus, if a 40 mph headwind was planned in 24 hours, would they take the wings off? Thanks for the reply.
@senabecool7232
Жыл бұрын
British planes of the 50s and 60s may not be best sellers, but they pioneered some tech we know today
@twistedyogert
Жыл бұрын
That map thing was pretty interesting. GPS was years away when the Trident was developed. The only way that I could imagine that function working is that the aircraft used dead reckoning to figure out where it was. If it knew what direction it was going and how fast it was going (ground speed not airspeed) then the aircraft's computer could figure out where the plane was. This is similar to how early missile guidance systems would work.
@williamarthurfenton1496
Жыл бұрын
How could they possibly compete with the economic might of the USA. Back then they literally had something like 50-60% of global wealth.
@gosborg
Жыл бұрын
Its auto-land ability was, for the time, freaky.
@BeBe-vh4ry
Жыл бұрын
This plane seems like a British equivalent of the L1011.
@ronniewall492
Жыл бұрын
NOT REALLY THE BRITS ARE BAD ABOUT NOT THINKING THINGS OUT.
@flybobbie1449
Жыл бұрын
Years ago we did a fire course, the fireman doing the course attended this accident. He said he saw passengers strapped in dead, as though asleep. All suffered basically broken necks or internals.
@brandyyolidio4213
Ай бұрын
My goodness 😢
@irinadavid800
Жыл бұрын
There were survivors from the crash but sadly due to sightseers blocking the roads in Staines the ambulances struggled to get through.
@Max-oy1yy
Жыл бұрын
Oh
@andyseaward8816
Жыл бұрын
Not true. Media created Urban Myth. Road closed, cars drove onto grass to allow emergency services access. It’s scary isn’t it! How much of Our Deeply Held Personal Beliefs And Factual Information turns out to be simply the imaginations of tabloid journalists. People who are paid to create entertainment and a diversion from more relevant information.
@beenaplumber8379
8 ай бұрын
Do you think that had anything to do with why they died? Did that come from The Sun?
@jacquelinekjones
8 ай бұрын
It’s not true. I’ve read numerous accounts of this accident and this was fabricated by a certain newspaper, whose integrity and truthfulness are known to be non-existent. @@beenaplumber8379
@jpaulc441
8 ай бұрын
According to the Sun, a coach full of Liverpool fans arrived at the crash site and urinated on the victims.@@beenaplumber8379
@antman5474
Жыл бұрын
You covered a complex accident extremely well with this one.
@brovid-19
Жыл бұрын
nah, he literally messed it up at every turn, half of it was made up.. I mean, there's no such place as Brittin. Whateven place is that even at all? cmon
@antman5474
Жыл бұрын
@@brovid-19 dude? 😳
@hayleyxyz
Жыл бұрын
@@brovid-19 tired joke
@KingStr0ng
Жыл бұрын
@@brovid-19 Based
@heartofoak45
Жыл бұрын
I remember that in 1980 I was a senior manager with a major American company when we had a presentation on this accident. There are a couple of points that I remember being mentioned. The first one was that there was a relief pilot sitting towards the rear of the passenger cabin, who upon realising what was happening as regards the stall he apparently ran the whole length of the aircraft in an attempt to assist. His body was found near or in the cockpit. On a more personal level, there was a party of very senior surgeons from Scotland who were on the flight attending a conference in Brussels. The cream of Scottish surgeons was wiped out that afternoon.
@Cdearle
Жыл бұрын
The accident had a similar impact in Ireland. Due to the cancellation of the direct flight from Dublin to Brussels that day, some passengers were rerouted to Heathrow and onto the fatal flight. Among the Irish victims were almost the entire senior staff of the Confederation of Irish Industry, also on their way to a conference in Brussels.
@greatwestern101
Жыл бұрын
Hello Ian, I think the relief pilot (Captain Collins) was in the jump seat in the cockpit. His position over the centre console in the wreckage was thought by some to suggest that he tried to intervene. He was a qualified Trident pilot who was currently flying Viscounts.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
@@greatwestern101 Correct
@carpediem7654
Жыл бұрын
Drunk Scottish surgeons. No thanks.
@MrHAPPYHAWAIIAN
Жыл бұрын
I drink Whiskey tonight to honor surgeons 😅🤯👍
@ual737ret
Жыл бұрын
At certain points in my career as an airline pilot, I was a witness to tension between picket line crossers and strikers. I can tell you that it made for tension on the flight deck between them and made for an unpleasant work environment.
@baronburch6702
Жыл бұрын
Scabs always do. They profit from being a scab and then they profit from others taking strike action. They should be made to feel unwelcome.
@ual737ret
Жыл бұрын
@@baronburch6702 I never had any use for them.
@gosborg
Жыл бұрын
I vividly remember when this happened, even though I was only a child at the time. It was such a needless accident, so easy to avoid. CRM has come a long way since then.
@stanislavkostarnov2157
Жыл бұрын
I have a feeling CRM only became a thing much much later... I want to say after Tenerife, which seems a few decades after the Tridents in my mind (though cannot be sure)
@gosborg
Жыл бұрын
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 You are right. I didn’t mean to imply that this incident precipitated the CRM changes, just that a lot has changed in the intervening years. On the other hand, I am sure lessons were learned.
@stanislavkostarnov2157
Жыл бұрын
@@gosborg I wasn't saying you did, I am just pointing out, this was not even the beginning of the road for CRM... was always amazed how much time it took for people to start moving in that direction... I mean I do understand engrained want of hierarchy, top-dog and all, but still, they put the other pilots there for a reason!
@jacquelinekjones
8 ай бұрын
The crash at Tenerife was in 1977 and it was one of many crashes at the end of the 70s and into the 80s which provided much impetus for CRM. @@stanislavkostarnov2157
@LemonLadyRecords
Жыл бұрын
Also, something that needs to be talked about more these days, is age-related vascular dementia. Two of my family members had it. It's a slow clogging of the arteries to the brain, thus gradual oxygen deprivation in the brain. It's insideous, and people adjust to it somewhat and thus minimize the effects, and it's much less striking than other dementias. Personality changes are a hallmark of the start. People often become more extreme in their political and religious beliefs or change them altogether, or just more of what's already there, like anger, perhaps violence, depression, paranoia, and denial. And forgetfulness, of course, but not too noticeable at first. Also inflexiblility, unable to adjust to a changing world. High cholesterol, smoking, and heart disease are risks, as along with heart issues, other blood vessels are affected/clogged similarly. These days, they can easily clean out the build-up in the neck arteries. It can be detected by ultrasound, I believe. Getting the senior to have these simple procedures is often difficult, though.
@rnf1227
Жыл бұрын
You've described the symptoms that I - unknowingly - have but now know. Thank you. I'll endeavor to see my doctor about this if I can get an appointment, that is.
@Menstral
Жыл бұрын
I wanted to make sure that this was never my problem and more than thirty years ago I became plant-based and I juice and avoid junk food and so forth
@ImperialDiecast
Жыл бұрын
lol this reads like the rant of a young hippie accusing any older conservative of being demented due to vascular oxygen deprivation.
@Amanda-C.
Жыл бұрын
Hah, you had me for a minute! Good one!
@googaagoogaa12345678
Жыл бұрын
Yep took my grandpa recently he was normal until like 6 months before then went off a cliff. He couldn't even talk at the end its horrible
@Springbok295
Жыл бұрын
I remember the Trident and even flew aboard several to and from Yugoslavia during my family trips to Yugoslavia in the 70s. My last flight on a Trident was in August 1981 from Zagreb to LHR. I sat on one of the rear-facing rows just ahead of the wing on the right-hand side. She was an excellent plane and a loud one at that.
@HelloArt3mis
Жыл бұрын
The irony of Key seeing strike action as unprofessional, only for him to very unprofessionally blow up at his colleague about the subject of strike action.
@Mshi-
4 ай бұрын
I don't blame him
@roostercogburn809
Жыл бұрын
My wife's parents were killed on BEA 548. We went to the 45th anniversary in Staines , Met Mike Bannister, the BEA chief concord pilot, and his wife, along with Nurse Frances, who was the first to arrive on the scene. We also met 2 of the news reporters who arrived on the scene right after the crash. Met several relatives who's family members perished on the flight. I always believed that Captain Key was a victim of circumstance, that his unknown heart ailment may have contributed to the crash, but his younger, immature colleagues were too inexperienced to correct or overcome the unfortunate chaos that happened on the flight deck. I feel, Captain Key was a good guy and great pilot, although he was the butt of jokes from the younger and inexperienced pilots below him. The younger pilots wanted to strike, the older pilots were more mature and just wanted to do their jobs. Good documentary, thanks...
@josephconnor2310
Жыл бұрын
Oh, my. Sorry about your wife's parents.
@darreng745
Жыл бұрын
The situation in the airline at that stage was toxic, the strike action had pitted the junior pilots against their older more experienced captains and in Cpt. Keys case graffitti had been spotted on a Trident's engineering panel that stated that Keys felt he was god. The other problem with the situation was that the Trident for all of it's advances to counter deep stall had issues with the air operated control systems and they did malfunction and were isolated in some cases, taken with the Naples Incident where an alleged mechanical malfunction or misuse of the droops had nearly caused a Trident to stall you had an aircraft that while it could land itself could in certain circumstances prove very tricky to keep flying. Key's outburst prior to the flight was described by a witness as being one of the most violent and aggressive verbal attacks he had ever witnessed on someone, but credit must be given to Cpt. Keys for apologised to his victim before the ill fated flight took place. I frequently pass by the crash site and always think of that incident and the people on that plane for whom there would be no escape as it was a totally avoidable and more to the point a totally preventable accident had the situation within the airline and within the cockpit been better managed
@irinadavid800
Жыл бұрын
We were flying in a Northeast Trident that took off 5 minutes after, my late grandfather had dropped us at Heathrow and heard about the crash. It took a day before he found out it was BEA.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
@@darreng745 A balanced and coherent assessment of the ethos in the company
@melodiefrances3898
Жыл бұрын
Sending condolences to your wife. I can't imagine losing loved ones like that 😢
@nyxqueenofshadows
Жыл бұрын
there's a lot going on here, but you explained and kept it all in check perfectly! great video, as always :)
@DisasterBreakdown
Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for watching!!!!
@Max-oy1yy
Жыл бұрын
@@DisasterBreakdownthank you for working yourself off for this stuff! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
@randymillhouse791
Жыл бұрын
I once worked with a lady in Human Resources who had posted for the job that I got. I was new to the company. She had been there for 2 years. At first she was very helpful. But then she asked my boss to fire me and place her in my role. He refused (yep, this is what he told me). That is when she stopped talking to or even answering me when I said "good morning." No eye contact from her either. This was her problem, not mine. One year later Covid-19 craziness happened, she saw that I was fully engaged in the role and doing well when it came to following sanitary protocols. Then one day, she began talking to me like nothing had ever happened. I followed suit. Again, this was not MY PROBLEM. She is a VERY intelligent person and performs very well. Has a great intuition too. Bad situation for a while. But, I think, mutual respect. That is what this flight crew was missing. Mutual respect.
@melodiefrances3898
Жыл бұрын
Mutual respect can totally change contentious situations. It has become my golden rule. Good for you in keeping things in that realm.
@simonk1025
Жыл бұрын
I was 14yrs old and obsessed with aviation, living at the time in Pooley Green not far from Staines. Much of my time was spent in the garden with my fathers binoculars watching the planes coming over our house. I was doing this when I heard the impact and saw the smoke rise to the North of us.
@andrewdenby8239
Жыл бұрын
To correct the record, the worst aircrash on UK soil was the Lockerbie incident on 21/12/88 killing all 269 onboard plus 11 on the ground.
@neilevans8940
Жыл бұрын
Wasn't an accident though...😉
@cat137
3 ай бұрын
I was thinking the same thing. He said this was the worst incident twice. He said "in Britain" but Scotland is part of Britain. He would have been correct if he said "England".
@Halinspark
Ай бұрын
@@cat137"Not including acts of terrorism" rules out Lockerbie.
@DiecastPowderCoating
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video and informative. I have mentioned before that my mum was in a local hospital in Staines in 1972. I would have been six at the time. I went with my dad to visit my mum on that Sunday and I commented to my dad, why were there so many emergency vehicles around. When we got home it was on the news what had happened. I always think of this accident when I drive down the Staines by pass where it happened. Thanks once again for the work you put into these videos.
@b.t.356
Жыл бұрын
The animation of the jet plummeting towards earth sent a major chill down my spine. Also, my gosh, what a toxic cockpit indeed.
@sheiladikshit5110
Жыл бұрын
toxic cockpits are a top concern of all aerolines, but things could be worse. imagine of someone's mis-gendered.
@WhiteWolf-lm7gj
Жыл бұрын
@@sheiladikshit5110 alright grandma, time for bed
@derekandme
5 ай бұрын
@@sheiladikshit5110 like the chap creating these videos..? Haha
@Robocopnik
Жыл бұрын
"Staines-upon-Thames" sounds like a town with a severe self-confidence problem. Like, c'mon, you're a fine little town, I bet, there's no need to call yourself a stain.
@antman5474
Жыл бұрын
It changed it's name from Staines to Staines-upon-Thames in 2012 following an Ali-G comedy sketch shown on UK television during the 1990's. Remarkable but true.
@hayleyxyz
Жыл бұрын
I used to pass Stains on the Reading - Waterloo line on my way to work in Richmond in a job I hated. Sadly every stop on that line has a negative memory in my mind lol
@Chilternflyer
Жыл бұрын
I remember this 'story' breaking on the BBC 6 O'clock news the day it happened. I couldn't believe that a perfectly functional aircraft with three engines could stall and 'fall out of the sky' like that. I was only a child at the time. One of our neighbours happened to be a BOAC maintenance engineer. It seemed to be the only thing that he and my dad talked about for months afterwards.
@HDRW
Жыл бұрын
I was 18 at the time, and remember this well. It was always referred-to as the "Papa India disaster", from the aircraft's last two registration letters (some of this video shots show this, others are of other aircraft). This video doesn't mention the stick shaker, which normally precedes the stick pusher, but the out-of-configuration state caused them both to happen together, compounding the startle effect and possibly causing the thought that the system was malfunctioning, leading to it being disconnected. Before this video I hadn't heard about the fact that they were well below the speed they should have been, as well as the droop retraction. Today's "you learn something every day" item. Great video.
@edm9527
Жыл бұрын
I flew the Trident many times in the late 70's and early 80's. It is still the worlds second fastest commercial jet after Concorde. It was loud but always fun to fly in
@nkt1
Жыл бұрын
Wasn't the Convair 880/990 slightly faster than the Trident?
@edm9527
Жыл бұрын
@@nkt1 I think you may be right, there wasn't much in it. I know the Trident 3 was like a rocket
@ThePapaja1996
Жыл бұрын
the sovjet concorde to
@edm9527
Жыл бұрын
@@ThePapaja1996 That didn't do much though did it
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
@@nkt1 The 990 was a little faster in the cruise but our descent Mmo/Vmo profile had the edge at .88/365kts. Being able to deploy the outboard thrust reversers also gave some operational “flexibility” during descent!
@grunions9648
Жыл бұрын
I have to wonder whether Key was actually having a full-on heart attack, and the rest of the crew were trying to deal with too many things at once.
@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935
Жыл бұрын
Go for the simple explanation first, a human error. We all have had almost accidents and nobody is perfect.
@Robert_N
Жыл бұрын
My father RIP was a captain on the Trident from the mid 60s to the mid 70s. He loved flying it. Very advanced for it's time. CATIII Zero visibility Full Auto land capable. Very fast cruised at M0.88 and can cruise at M0.96 if fuel consumption is not a problem. Had fans to cool the brakes. Was capable of 10,000 fpm descend rate using reverse thrust in flight. A great aircraft. It's only weakness was it's poor take-off performance in hot weather.
@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935
Жыл бұрын
M 0.96 once by test pilots during development!
@transporter8884
Жыл бұрын
My friends father was a fireman from nearby Slough that attended the crash site. He told us that it was an horrific scene. The aircraft had hit the ground hard on its belly. Most of the passengers that had been in the brace position were found in their seats with their spines sticking up behind their heads due to the massive impact.
@angryrick2330
Жыл бұрын
WTF
@PuffKitty
Жыл бұрын
Gruesome 😬; that would be hell to see in person for the first responders 🥺
@leaveherwild9979
9 ай бұрын
Omg that's raw 🙈
@nickelplateroad4267
5 ай бұрын
So there are situations where the brace position does absolutely nothing and may actually make things worse. Good to know
@KoffinKat
Жыл бұрын
I remember this accident from the Mayday: Air Disasters show. I feel sorry for the old guy. RIP everyone who died in that crash.
@kevinbarry71
Жыл бұрын
Old guy? He was in his early 50s. Which happens to be where I am now. He sounds like someone who learned something 100 years ago and that was it. Doesn't sound like a fun guy to be around no matter what your relationship
@johnkidd1226
Жыл бұрын
You arrogant pup! The man was 50 years old, hardly an 'old guy'.
@theghostoftravel
Жыл бұрын
You dont remember this accident since a show told you about it *****
@YukariAkiyamaTanks
Жыл бұрын
Something I love about the trident is about the trident is that the nose gear is just off to the left and its entirely british. Its just the aircraft that will annoy anyone with ocd
@nian60
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I learnt some new things. I didn't know that the graffiti had probably been made 2 weeks prior. For some reason I thought it was scribbled just before the flight. I didn't know about the T-tail design having that stall quirk either. Yes, this accident is a perfect example of why a flight-deck voice recorder is needed.
@洪梓恩-p7z
Жыл бұрын
Damn, I was not expecting this and Aeromexico flight 498 to be the preceding episodes for the Zagreb mid-air collision, my guess back on the last week's comment section became a huge miss lol. This and last week's Disaster Breakdown are very well done. I'll be looking forward towards next week's episode of Disaster Breakdown about the Zagreb mid-air collision.
@MELANIE2571
Жыл бұрын
Ok. I'm a bit obsessed with your channel. Once again, a flawless telling of another plane disaster. I love the background and history you provide and how you make the technical stuff easy to understand
@Dragonchick27
Жыл бұрын
Oh goodness, I looked up the event I THINK you’ll be covering next week (1976?), and there’s so many layers to it, but talk about a disaster happening in the blink of an eye. Definitely a worthwhile one to talk about, though, since I haven’t seen any other major airline channel discuss this one. I know you’ll do it justice, Chloe. :) Wonderful job
@thsvobblitz524
Жыл бұрын
And I think that you are in fact correct
@damienhill6383
Жыл бұрын
The Trident was nick-named "The Gripper" because of it's reluctance to take to the air. Longer versions of the Trident had a small fourth turbojet installed in the tail as can be seen in some of the great photos. An entire delegation of Irish industrial and exporting managers died in the accident.
@greatwestern101
Жыл бұрын
I researched this accident extensively about 10 years ago - it is fascinating. Due to the strike, the co-pilot (Keighley) was not trained to the highest standards and was being monitored by the third pilot/flight engineer (Ticehurst). Keighley was reported as being slow to respond to emergencies in training. It is a mystery as to why Ticehurst didn't notice the speed dropping and the droops retracted. The simplest explanation - and I have thought this through a LOT, almost daily - is that Captain Key's condition was so severe and distracting that the other three people on the flight deck were unable to prevent the plane entering a deep stall because they were trying to help him. Even though the medical evidence is thin, the idea that three other pilots (including Captain Collins in the jump seat - a trained Trident caption now flying Viscounts) were just sitting around in a panic or oblivious doesn't make any sense. The only person who may have been panicking a bit is Keighley due to his junior position. I believe Captain Key may have had a massive heart attack and fell unconscious. The others would have tried to either remove him from his seat (very difficult) or instruct Keighley to fly the plane. The idea that the crash happened almost subtly is, in my view, nonsense. Professionalism and lives depended on them getting it right - surely only a massive health incident could have distracted them that much? Footnote: I have seen at least one web article where the captain's daughter hotly disputes the heart attack theory!
@jillanderson1316
Жыл бұрын
Another example of how important it is to have respectful communication between colleagues. I've listened to a lot of these reports on air disasters and so many of them have this toxic background in the cockpit anger, resentment , tension, lack of knowledge which have all contributed to crashing they have to talk to each other so they can diagnose the problem and that's obviously the most major thing
@sylviaholmes1428
Жыл бұрын
I lived close to Heathrow and remember that crash, not far from my late Uncles home. At the time capt Ticehurst got a lot of blame re the flaps, but the mix was a perfect storm. I also remember the disgusting public who were looting the contents from the wreckage, close to the reservoir…. 50 plus years ago like yesterday.
@sylviaholmes1428
Жыл бұрын
My late Brother was a head designer on Concorde at Fulton but spent most of his time in France at Aero Spatiell Toulouse… that plane was tested far beyond all others, and it took as he said usually a pilot/ human error to cause accidents….which he investigated. Again there were some debatable issues on the plane, weight/ fuel being pushed to the limit, it was a combination of that.Concorde was his life’s main
@notme2day
Жыл бұрын
I'm always impressed by you knowledge and breakdowns of a vast assortment of planes and different technical components on each type making it easier for us *lay persons* to follow along.
@DisasterBreakdown
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@slagarcrue85
Жыл бұрын
I’m impressed as well,
@mjc8281
Жыл бұрын
My father tells a story that I always think about when I read/watch something on this accident anyway, he was an RAF pilot from the early 1960s through to the 1980s. Back in the mid-60s he was a co-pilot on Shackleton's and he was with a senior pilot this particular day and the procedure for take off at this airfield included checking that they had clearance on take off to cross a railway track(I kid you not!). So the pilot lines up and sets off down the runway, my father challenges him saying we don't have clearance... and sure enough turned out they didn't so they abort take-off and go again. The following day my father was hauled in in from of the Squadron Commander and told in no uncertain terms never to challenge the officer commanding the flight again! Clearly that's the kind of background Captain Key was coming from.
@jessstone7486
Жыл бұрын
WOW! Incredible!! Shaking head here...
@cat137
3 ай бұрын
It was a big factor in the deadliest ever plane crash too - Tenerife 1977
@SillyMoustache
Жыл бұрын
I was there on that day. My parents lived close by and I we had just finished lunch when we heard the radio newsflash. My Dad (61 at the time) said, let's go and see! My mother declined, naturally, but I went with my father. We expected to see a belly flopped plane and passengers climbing out. So close to the airport, it didn't occur to us that there could be fatalities. We were among many who crowded the road by the crash scene. Later when the full horror became known the press called us, the sight-seers, "ghouls." I guess that they were right. I was 24 at the time and my Danish girlfriend and I made made short flights like this from Heathrow, and Gatwick. The implication of this fateful flight stayed in my mind for many years to come.
@adotintheshark4848
Жыл бұрын
There's a time for labor relations, and a time to fly the plane. It appears that perhaps the pilots forgot this basic rule. I would bet, because of their differences, the two young co-pilots were not communicating with the senior pilot and therefore not working together.
@bwc1976
Жыл бұрын
Very cool to hear the history of the Concorde-style yoke, I love how Embraer still uses them today. Sad to hear of such unprofessionalism as graffiti in the cockpit though, I would not want someone who would do that flying 100+ passengers around.
@neilevans8940
Жыл бұрын
Unprofessional perhaps... but in the absence of a cockpit voice recorder this graffiti gives us an insight into the toxic environment on this flight deck...
@fleitasferra
Жыл бұрын
What an amazing vid! The information and quality of the content in it is just as detailed as a air crash investigation episode. Definetly I will be watching your videos more often. Continue like that! RIP to everybody aboard flight 548
@curiositatibus2846
Жыл бұрын
A very good summary, relecting the accident report. Many other teenagers and I were sailing on a very nearby reservoir. The wind that day was awful. Of many dinghies that day, only three of us managed to stay upright long enough to finish the race. In my case only using the jib ... I still have the trophy. Although I was always puzzled as to whether the captain was actually suffering from heart pain, there were clearly serous issues with the crew's performance. prior to the flight. One factor that always surprised me was there was no significant mention of the wind. Of course the aircraft should have been flying faster, but were they also unlucky with an unhelpful wind shift? From memory we had white water on the reservoir, with severe changes in wind direction. A glance at that day's wether chart will show what was happening.
@tomaszmagierowski2166
Жыл бұрын
I like it when these videos use older simulators than MSFS 2020 when describing old pre-2000 accidents as it helps gives the feel of the era.
@RobsonWilliam82
Жыл бұрын
This plane is new to me. Thanks for sharing and thanks for your work. Love your channel!
@Ensign_Cthulhu
11 ай бұрын
22:28 But let us not criticize the fact that the noise abatement procedures force the pilots to fly at less than full thrust, possibly wiping out any speed margin that might have prevented the crash. Oh no, got to keep it quiet for the neighbours.
@unclemick-synths
Жыл бұрын
If I remember correctly, the father of one of my sister's friends was a senior police officer on-site. Years later as a Chief Inspector he was on-site at the Moorgate tube disaster.
@Giratina575
Жыл бұрын
Moorgate...was that the one where the train overshot a station and slammed into a dead end and telescoped into itself
@unclemick-synths
Жыл бұрын
@@Giratina575 yes, it was
@almightysamwhich4203
Жыл бұрын
Great video as always, could you do a video on Malaysian airlines flight 17 please it's such an interesting story. Keep up the good work Chloe I absolutely love your work!!!
@stephanieparker1250
Жыл бұрын
I just shared an NPR article on her Twitter page that talks about the recent findings. Would be an interesting video, I agree.
@DisasterBreakdown
Жыл бұрын
Yeah just saw that. Reading it right now actually!
@robertmcghintheorca49
Жыл бұрын
The Hawker Siddeley HS-121 Trident and the Vickers-Armstrongs VC10 were two of my loves in British aviation.
@dfuher968
Жыл бұрын
Ive always felt, that Captain Key was judged very harshly and unfairly in the crash, while the 2 young pilots were allowed to just basically get off with no responsibility. Why? Well, first Captain Key. Yes, he was very set in his ways, an oldfashioned captain used to being the unquestioned boss - but thats how he was taught and how it was back then. And he was not the 1 looking for fights or confrontations. The argument b4 the flight was provoked by the strike supporter, who sought out Captain Key despite knowing, or perhaps due to knowing, that Key was against the strike. Captain Key just wanted to keep to himself and do the job and expecting the same professionalism from the other pilots. He certainly did not get that professionalism from his flight crew. The 2 come off as very unprofessional, disrespectful, intolerant towards any1 not agreeing 100% with them and more busy with juvenile schoolboy taunts than doing their jobs. Theres plenty of blame to go around between humans and systems alike, but I really think, their atrocious behavior was inexcusable. Whatever differences they had with Captain Key and others, it did NOT belong in the cockpit. Those 2 were clearly not ready for the jobs, they were given, regardless of whatever skills they might have had with aircraft operations. Personally I think, that the 2 young pilots were the big winners of the plane not having a CVR. We were all losers for not having valuable information, that mightve answered most of or all of the unanswered questions. Captain Key wouldve been served well with the certainty of what happened, rather than every1 of us speculating for 50 years, almost exclusively focused on the captain. While the CVR might have been a verbal proof of the utter unprofessionalism of the 2 younger pilots and have turned the spotlight on them, their behavior and their performance in the cockpit. Yes, Captain Key was not without fault. In a fatal accident its basically impossible for any of the crew to be completely blameless. But considering the record of Captain Key and the others, considering the behaviors in the period b4 the flight, considering the graffiti found in the cockpit and what that entails, I personally find it much more likely, that the fatal mistake(s) were from the co-pilot than from the captain. As Captain Key had not previously shown any symptoms of the disease, that was discovered at his autopsy, I think that to be a red herring.
@diplomamilldoc8562
Жыл бұрын
you're right. In those days the union heavies would have attempted to bully Key into submission.
@Cautionary_Tale_Harris
Жыл бұрын
The bias against Captain Key in this video was glaringly obvious to me.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
As far as I am aware it was established that Captain Key was flying. The sequence of events therefor would have been that the RHS (right hand seat) pilot started his stopwatch as they rolled and subsequently called “90 seconds, flaps 5, climb thrust” and actioned both those selections. The pilot in the LHS would be focussed on instruments and therefore not monitoring the flap/droop selection - this was the duty of the monitoring third pilot (P3). Any mis-selection of the droop lever would therefore likely have been by P2 in the RHS
@ronaldhodgson5301
Жыл бұрын
@@Kathikas1 A bad set up in the cockpit, BEA should have had a professional Flight Engineer in the cockpit, not some Pilot with minimum flight hours who didn't want to be a systems operator. BOAC had the full 3 crew with F/E for operations with Comet/B707/B747/VC10/Concorde and they were a good outfit.
@ukqwerty999
Жыл бұрын
@@Kathikas1 So rhs was setting the flaps and droops ? Better to blame someone you didn't train, for health reasons, than blame your companies new pilots.
@johnsmith-rs2vk
Жыл бұрын
Very well covered . Direct to the events of this disaster .
@sarahpiaggio2693
Жыл бұрын
The post mortem of the captain showed that he has atherosclerosis. They couldn't prove that he had a heart attack or stroke and that this is what caused the crash. That's perhaps a tempting deduction given the evidence, but we don't have the proof of that.
@cat137
3 ай бұрын
A cardiologist commented elsewhere on this post, saying the same as you - an autopsy would have confirmed whether or not his health affected the crash.
@pimpompoom93726
10 ай бұрын
This air crash has always impacted me. Two members of my family were airline pilots at this time and we discussed the condition of this crew many times over the years. Trident was an excellent airliner, typical British well-engineered craft. Something out of ordinary happened the last few moments of this flight, the theory it was impacted by the Captain's physical and perhaps emotional state is certainly plausible. RIP to the crew and passengers.
@laceneil4570
11 ай бұрын
I read an article on this accident that stated that the graffiti in the accident plane was by no means unique. There was similar insulting scribbles in other planes and in different handwriting. It seems that there was a lot of discontent among the younger employees.
@johnhudson8197
Жыл бұрын
If I'm correct, British "Decca" was the same company that made phonograph records. I understand the moving map display concept was originally developed in the U.S. - but sold to Decca. I was in Vietnam in 1968 as a young helicopter pilot. A number of our helicopters had the Decca moving map display installed for testing. I used it a number of times. It took us to within sighting distance of our objective. No, not today's GPS quality or accuracy, but quite impressive for its day.
@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935
Жыл бұрын
An alternative hyperbolic grid navigator to Loran, based on WW2 Gee.
@simonkpoumie9925
Жыл бұрын
Wasn’t the Lockerbie disaster the deadliest one to take place on British soil?
@fionamackie3357
10 ай бұрын
He says the deadliest one exclusive of terrorist attacks.
@martinda7446
Жыл бұрын
PS Very well made episode. The first 'triplex' aircraft, as after the awful Comet disasters De Havilland went over the top with safety so all systems were triplicated. First autoland, when the whole of Europe was fogged in only Tridents were flying. I watched dozens of them lined up at Heathrow with engines roaring, It pioneered the supercritical wing along with the VC10 which gave it the necessity for stick shaker as stall was not so obvious. The Trident wing still sort of lives on in Airbus, as the A300 supercritical wing was a development of the Trident design. With Hawker Siddeley still making Airbus wings... I think?
@geoffhunter7704
Жыл бұрын
Yes the Tridents engines were very loud and Hawker Siddeley Aviation was by UK Gov Decree merged with other British Aircraft Coy's to form British Aerospace Engineering (BAE) and Airbus Wings are still made at HS Works at Filton,Bristol ,UK.
@martinda7446
Жыл бұрын
@@geoffhunter7704 😁
@hunterjones7036
Жыл бұрын
Beautifully put together program. Thanks.
@armorer94
Жыл бұрын
I flew on a trident as a young man. British Airways, from London Heathrow to Schipol. Comfortable.
@bernardwallace4165
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting and informative. You make it easy for non-aviation people like myself to follow.
@davidjma7226
Жыл бұрын
Most were killed sitting in their seats, still strapped in. How awful!
@tumslucks9781
Жыл бұрын
They died intact which is more than you can say for most plane crash victims. Check out The Air Crash Bureau by Gary Numan.
@johnhead1643
Жыл бұрын
I can't see how any less awful it would have been if they had not been in their seats.
@fireflyrobert
Жыл бұрын
One of the recommendations of the accident inquiry was that occurrence reporting should be mandatory. Prior to the accident BEA had had a couple of near misses when droop was retracted below minimum speed but the crews got away with it. At least one of these incidents was reported internally but no management action had been taken. Mandatory Occurrence Reporting was adopted placing a responsibility on the operator and regulator that incidents be reported and acted on. This has been a major contribution to airline safety worldwide. Even if the incident does not lie within the remit of being reportable a voluntary report to the system can be submitted and is treated in the same way as an MOR. The MOR system also lists the type of incidents which must be reported. Crews filing an MOR can annotate that a copy goes to the aviation regulator immediately as well as the operator. The regulator reviews all MORs on a regular basis. MOR's can be submitted by aircrew, engineers and also, I believe, air traffic controllers. Sadly most aviation safety is built on hard experience and often death. I remember the accident well as the two first officers on the crew had completed their training at the College of Air Training, Hamble, UK which was BEA/BOACs flying school for cadets. I had graduated from Hamble about 2 years before the accident although I never flew Tridents. Like all accidents there were several holes in the Swiss cheese which lined up on the day of the accident. We should keep in mind this was before the days of Cockpit Resource Management training where crews learn how to operate as a team and the pitfalls of not doing so. Another recommendation of the report was that training should include pilot incapacitation procedures. This was adopted and incapacitation training and practise is now a routine part of 6 monthly simulator refresher rides for all pilots.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
An accurate and relevant comment 661/Tridents
@fireflyrobert
Жыл бұрын
@@Kathikas1 692/B707s
@Eric_Hutton.1980
Жыл бұрын
The mid-air Collision of a Hawker Siddeley Trident with an Inex Adria DC over Yugoslavia
@DisasterBreakdown
Жыл бұрын
Coming very soon!
@forseti24
Жыл бұрын
I'm sad. I love the Trident, it was the first airplane I ever flew in, summer of 1981 inbound to Heathrow. Some weeks later I took the chance to snatch a copy of a Trident boardingticket stickers element out of a full box at an empty BA counter late evening...Hung in my room for years. My apologies to BA, though, as a huge fan the little boy of then just couldn't resist :)
@mikekeenan8450
Жыл бұрын
Good that you mention the phenomenon where many T-tail designs sometimes can't be unstalled. A strange fact - the Mayday episode about this disaster, as well as the one about the West Caribbean Airlines disaster, both fail to mention this. The cynic in me thinks this may be because the show gets funding from the Canadian government; at the time the main manufacture of T-tailed jetliners was Bombardier (who themselves lost a couple of aircraft and crews to this phenomenon in test flights). Maybe they didn't like the prospect of some Bloc Quebecois MP ranting in Parliament about taxpayers' money being used to throw shade at an iconic Quebec company.
@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935
Жыл бұрын
The Boeing test pilot recovered a 727 but refused to reveal his technique in case it encouraged others to have a go.
@mikekeenan8450
Жыл бұрын
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Yeah, I gather the 727 is less subject to deep stall than most similar aircraft. One case that's sometimes cited is Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 6231, but this isn't really an example; the confused crew were holding it into the stall, and then it suffered structural failure.
@mikekeenan8450
Жыл бұрын
@BB49 I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory; it doesn't require any vast conspiracy, just a few risk averse writers or producers not wanting to rock the boat. Yeah, they're still being made for business jets, and I wouldn't worry about flying on one, but I could see someone with the network not wanting to go there.
@mikekeenan8450
Жыл бұрын
@BB49 You're missing the point. It's not that T-tails are all that dangerous (they aren't), just that someone might have been afraid of being seen to suggest that they were. Not that far out really. Given that the show has done two episodes about accidents involving deep stall without mentioning the phenomenon, I just thought it odd. It's not like a difficult concept to understand; if you can understand stall, you can understand deep stall. So why would they shy away from it then?
@mikekeenan8450
Жыл бұрын
@BB49 It made a difference for the recoverability of the situation. It didn't _cause_ the crashes per se; the cause of the crashes, like most crashes, was a confluence of factors, of which the aircraft design. But again, that's not the point, the point is that they might have been reluctant to be seen to imply that T-tails are less safe than other designs. So again, since it was a factor (albeit one of many) and is mentioned in most discussions of the accidents (including this video) why the reluctance to talk about it?
@andrewbarten7347
Жыл бұрын
Back in the days when things WERE actually made in the UK.
@anna_in_aotearoa3166
Жыл бұрын
Gosh, if the younger pilots were collectively grafitti-ing the cockpit, I'm not sure Cpt. Key was wrong in considering them immature & irresponsible?? 😳 But the fact that their scribbles were there for several weeks & not reported by colleagues or removed by cleaners definitely seems to point to some wider issues within the wider airline too...? These tyoes of historical incidents just continue to reinforce the vital importance of modern CRM training.
@donnamurphy5698
Жыл бұрын
I think it's amazing that you include the musical information.
@richardrawson
Жыл бұрын
The photo of the tail section in the wreckage with the distinct ‘Trident’ on it is burned in my memory from childhood where I saw it my dad’s Plane Crashes book.
@VanillaKind
Жыл бұрын
This is the first time I have seen one of your videos. I'm so impressed with it, and of course I subscribed.
@lisaschuster686
Жыл бұрын
It’s amazing how hard smoking was on the heart in those days when so many had the habit.
@robert-trading-as-Bob69
11 ай бұрын
Captain Keys might also have been preoccupied with his earlier argument, not just the undiagnosed heart condition. The workspace there had also developed into a toxic cockpit with the pilots at odds with each other. This could have led to a lack of clear communication between the pilots. All three pilots on board had reason to be angry, thus preoccupied with personal problems instead of concentrating on their job.
@charlotteinnocent8752
Жыл бұрын
Brilliant video. I can so easily imagine that they all got into a heated debate and distracted, and the captain's blood pressure out of control. How everyone must have wished for the voice recorder.
@lamwen03
Жыл бұрын
It wouldn't even be necessary to have an argument going on, just the residue of the incident. The low airspeed should certainly have been spotted by the PIC.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
@@lamwen03 The airspeed was not low per se but the aircraft was incorrectly configured by having the droop up. It’s minimum retraction speed was 225kts
@Fcutdlady
Жыл бұрын
I was going to suggest a video on the munich disaster. Glad to see you've done it already
@simonlathwell
12 күн бұрын
My Great Grandparents lived in Staines when this happened. My Grandad told me about it as my Great Grandparents had brought a flat there not long before the crash happened, and I visited them only a few years after when I was born in 1977. I was told that they heard the aircraft and went outside and saw it literally falling out of the sky so to speak, and then heard it crash. It was only a few miles from where they lived. If it had happened any later it could easily have crashed where they lived, and I dread to think what would have happened as it was quite a built up area even then.
@mirrorblue100
Жыл бұрын
Nothing wrong with doing things by the book - er - thats why there is a book. Nice SMEAR of Captain Key.
@Cautionary_Tale_Harris
Жыл бұрын
The younger pilots reported, "Captain Key is a tyrant who expects us to do our job instead of scribbling complaints on the cockpit walls. Simply intolerable."
@timfly767
8 ай бұрын
I worked as cabin crew on Trident 1E, 2E and 3Bs in the 70s and 80s. I loved every second. It was a beauty, stable and very fast. Happy days.
@buckfaststradler4629
Жыл бұрын
The opinion of the "general public" is utterly worthless as to the Captain's health.
@georgeconway4360
10 ай бұрын
The Trident ar BEA was flown by three pilots, P1 Captain, P2 First Officer, P3 Panel Operator. I was flying the SVC10 as a 24 year old First Officer when this accident happened and we used a Flight Engineer although British rules allowed three pilots. In the U.S.A. the FAA required a Flight Engineer Certificate. In the case of the accident aircraft the low time pilot sat in the right seat. According from what I recall from the accident report the reason was the young man in the right seat had not yet qualified in the P3 panel position. The P2 & P3 would swap seats on alternate legs. When U.S.A. airlines like Eastern locked the FEIA PFEs out and ALPA broke the strike EAL F/Os and S/O also swapped seats until there was a contract change that stopped the swapping. In my opinion the accident had nothing to do with Captain Key’s medical condition. The inexperienced F/O had a brain fart and retracted the Droops 60 knots too slow causing an immediate stall. Had the stall push been allowed to work the only difference would be a few meters difference in the impact point. The only possibility of recovery from a stall would have been to immediately extend the Droops again restoring lift to the wing. There was zero chance of getting flying speed again if they had twice the thrust and three times the altitude. The Brits learned all about that with the loss of the first BAC1-11 during stall tests 10 years earlier which created the requirement for stick push which the FAA ignored.
@redsus4839
Жыл бұрын
Another great video as always:)
@neilwoodcock647
11 ай бұрын
I was watching The Golden Shot, compered by Bob Monkhouse, that Sunday afternoon when the news came through. At that time I'd not flown on a Trident, but did so frequently in the years 1973 to the early 1980s. Thanks to Staines I used to be fixated by the leading edge flaps post take off. I also hated the fast landing speed and - in particular on the Trident 2 - the rear facing seats. I remember taking off for Edinburgh on a 2 around 1980 and looking down on three sister aircraft being broken up at the rear of the Maintenance Hanger at LHR. My worst experience was landing at Edinburgh in December 1973 on a wet and windy evening in a Trident 3 (which had a booster engine for short runway take offs). The then runway was short, narrow and suffered from crosswinds and it was clear that the flight crew were struggling to keep the aircraft on course. As we passed over the Croda Inks Factory (where the tram depot is now situated) the engines were given full throttle and we shot up at a very steep angle. The no-smoking signs were switched off and immediately the air was blue with cigarette smoke. The Captain apologised and stated - we're not trying that again, we're going to Glasgow. It took me years to overcome the trauma of that aborted landing - witnessed by my parents who had come to meet me and who said that the noise and angle of the plane as it overflew the runway was scary. The other trick when landing on Edinburgh's then runway was to engage reverse thrust while the plane was metres above the runway - the force with which one then hit the deck was dreadful. The new runway - long, wide and facing into the prevailing wind - solved the problem outlined above but I was so grateful to BA for the adoption of the 757-236 for LHR-EDI flights from 1982 onwards. A long haul captain told me in the late 80s that by then the Trident wouldn't have been given an airworthiness certificate because of its landing speed.
@35mmShowdown
Жыл бұрын
That graph of the flight input data is so insanely telling, it's speaks almost as loud as any cockpit recorder- that stall tunnel-vision we've seen in so many accidents, where a pilot with a lifetime of skill inexplicably forgets basic flight maneuvers and just instinctively tries to 'pull' out of a stall- literally the exact opposite thing you're trained to do from day 1.
@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935
Жыл бұрын
Turning off the stick pusher was like cutting everyone's throat.
@Satsuki_Nanase
Жыл бұрын
af447
@alanclark639
Жыл бұрын
I remember this incident very well, in fact the first time I went the Centre a guy would give you a 5 minute spin in a Dragon Rapide - my dad built the old Control Tower and the "Brabazon Hanger" as it was known. I was pedaling to the Airport (as we knew it, Heathrow was still a group of cottages ) when Arrivals & Departures were in old Army tents on the north side, I was later friends with two twin boys whose dad was Chief Engineer for BOAC so I've spent many a happy moment eating old chicken sandwiches in the cockpit of Stratocruisers over in the maintenance base. Unfortunately, when one aircraft was moved - it sat down on the concrete so after that we were all banned no matter who your dad was. Much later, one of my customers was Chief Engineer on the Trident propulsion upgrades including the beefing up of the APU so later models of the Trident were really Quadrants. Seems strange that back then engineers in the maintenance would routinely cut up aircraft with hacksaws and complete detailed remodelling. As we are considering something that happened long ago - I'd caution taking too much notice of Capt Keys reported heart attack or medical condition - it's just a good excuse. Pilot dead so Pilot Error ( there is a book of this flight with that title) there were dozens of small things that added up - one of the largest in my humble is just how easy it is to bring up the droop lever at the same time as flap from the PIC lefthand seat. Then you must consider how all that graphiti came to be scrawled on the desk station - who put it there and when? I can tell you that it was an absolute killer for Capt Keys - dead and guilty of being Col Blimp - which he probably was but in a nicer way than put. His sort were on the way out and non Air Force "types" were coming in.
@DeirdreMcNamara
Жыл бұрын
"Our chaps!" The "gerries" didn't kill him. His own did - or more fairly, internal dissension did. Foretaste of things to come. United you soar, divided you plummet and die...those with ears, let them hear...
@bmused55
Жыл бұрын
This is a nearly forgotten tragedy. Good to see this treatment
@cap1900
Жыл бұрын
This is probably the best accident video I've seen to date.
@johnhoyte6432
Жыл бұрын
Excellent analysis and fascinating to know that the CVR came about from it. Great work!!
@seltaeb9691
11 ай бұрын
As a WW2 pilot he should have been respected, but it was the 1970s & these junior pilots were purely civilian pilots with a different set of rules.
@phillee2814
7 ай бұрын
Respecting his military service does not mean he was above reproach for his failure to adapt to civilian life.
@patiencefullerton6250
Жыл бұрын
So many what ifs. Excellent video as always. Peace to the victims and all affected.
@jupekz6147
Жыл бұрын
Such an amazing aeroplane for it's time!
@EVChargers-d9z
2 ай бұрын
Another solidly produced video and analysis.... 👍
@winstonchurchill3597
Жыл бұрын
As an active airline Captain I can't fathom why they would retract the flaps and "droops" below appropriate speed. I get it that the Captain may have been having a medical issue, but that's the reason we don't fly solo with a plane packed full of passengers. Even the most junior First Officer would know what speeds to retract the flaps and wouldn't just sit there like a bump on log watching this occur. Really strange to me. Oh well, RIP to all involved.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
The droop and flap levers were immediately adjacent to each other on a quadrant close to P2’s left hand and, unbelievably, with no interconnect …
@PeteC62
4 ай бұрын
I was 10 years old, listening to the Sunday evening Top 20 countdown on Radio 2 when reports of this crash came on the news. I was an avid aircraft spotter at the time, and I'm ashamed to say my first thoughts were "I hope its a BOAC plane that crashed!" My favorite airline was BEA and my favorite plane was definitely the Trident. I was heartbroken when i found out it was a Trident that crashed. Incidentally, the tailplane of another crashed Trident, Papa Charlie, was lying in a field at the back of my local airport, Southend, for many years.
@BillyAlabama
Жыл бұрын
Excellent recap of what happened. Thank you!
@PauperJ
Жыл бұрын
I had never heard of this accident before. Thank you for always bringing this wonderful production to us all.
@KlaxontheImpailr
Жыл бұрын
I’ve never heard of this plane before. The front landing gear and the bike handles take some getting used to but it’s clearly something unique.
@barbarachipman9436
Жыл бұрын
beautiful plane!
@johnsmith-rs2vk
Жыл бұрын
Great Vid . Very informative .
@TheContrarianDr
Жыл бұрын
I use this video in my classes because it is so filled with fallacies. We don't know who lifted the droops, but it could have been" There is conflicting interpretation on the relevance of the medical condition, but it is possible that . . ." And, my favorite, "we all know people that have this kind of disposition" Don't watch this video. It is a hit piece. This isn't just a story to monetize from DB.
@Kathikas1
Жыл бұрын
One of the most telling comments to date (speaking as an ex BEA Trident co-pilot)
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