Tier lists are inherently subjective. They tell you more about the person making them than any measure of truth. It is not your job to convince me of anything, these are simply my thoughts borne of my experiences, which are wholly unique and distinct from yours. Remember that. Any 'authority' I have on this topic is borne of me making stealth content and guides/tutorial content on the Assassin's Creed franchise for the last seven years.
@wolfchadaverageusenjoyerza8288
3 жыл бұрын
Dude what the hell, AC Valhalla and AC Odissey have literally the same stealth system as AC Origins. Just saying. Your list is subjective indeed, factproof I would say.
@hlinneyefc75
3 жыл бұрын
Alex Marin odyssey sucked because it had damage sponges but Valhalla I found is really good no damage sponges enemies good story best ac since unity but the guards do detect you easily but only when you are in red restricted areas
@wolfchadaverageusenjoyerza8288
3 жыл бұрын
@@hlinneyefc75 In Odissey enemies stop being sponges of you upgrade the character though. Also in Valhalla, if you set the stealth difficulty on easy (by default is set on medium) enemies will stop detecting you immediatly, it will be like in the other ACs.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
@@wolfchadaverageusenjoyerza8288 That's not true whatsoever, and I talk about this exact thing. Swapping difficulty doesn't make a difference in detection-rates at any distance. It does for a minimal number of players for whom the game isn't bugged, but I'm critiquing the game as it's experienced by the highest number of people.
@themercenary4472
3 жыл бұрын
Just curious. What’s your favorite AC game overall? With everything taken into account as far as stealth, story, gameplay, and you’re own preferences. Mine I think is probably Rogue. I really liked the stealth of Black Flag which was basically ported over into Rogue like you said, and I loved how it felt like the free-running provided a lot of paths through enemy hideouts, and New York. Plus, I’m a sucker for revenge tales, but anyways that’s my round about way of asking what you think.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
The best stealth system in the Assassin's Creed franchise is Ghost of Tsushima. It's in SSS Tier, Devil May Cry style.
@Frank-mw5se
3 жыл бұрын
SSSS tier is chaos theory
@Sephyroth97
3 жыл бұрын
Ghossst Rank
@fastracrosc0397
3 жыл бұрын
Ghost of tsushimas stealth was so satisfying
@Indigo_1001
3 жыл бұрын
The sad part is that not only are you right, but Ghost of Tsushima’s stealth isn’t even that great to begin with, the combat is way more enjoyable. That how in another level GoT is to AC games, despite be loving the AC franchise.
@thatsaweirdone
3 жыл бұрын
Hurts to say that, doesn't it?
@jcers
3 жыл бұрын
Leo K has gone full AC KZitemr, we can expect 30 different tier lists in the next 5 years, as well as yearly updates on existing ones
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
The only thing that could get me to do this was a request from a hero of mine lol
@rub8252
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue are your subscribers not your heroes? Leo I’m hurt
@elvenatheart982
3 жыл бұрын
Lol this sounds like a inside joke
@mihdin
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue What about a tier list on story/atmosphere ? Would be nice to see where you rank them .
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
@@mihdin Story and Atmosphere are very subjective and I don't want to invalidate anyone's enjoyment of them. Combat and Movement are more likely.
@jamesstewart6219
3 жыл бұрын
Whenever I hear someone mention AC3 stealth, I get Vietnam flashbacks to trying to get 100% sync on Conflict Looms (the one before Battle of Bunker Hill)
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha, that's classic. "Air Assassinate a Grenadier. Remain undetected while on the ships."
@ABadassDragon
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Do you know a good guide for that mission or some tips? I never completed that mission without restarting at least once
@ABadassDragon
3 жыл бұрын
Me: sees Conflict Looms Also me: *confused screaming*
@SADDE
3 жыл бұрын
@@ABadassDragon Jcers, the pinned comment guy, is someone that goes ahead and does exactly that in one of his videos. it's called "Conflict Looms - Stealth Reaper, Full Sync | AC3 Remastered"
@rickblaine9670
3 жыл бұрын
@@ABadassDragon Target the ship on the left first. Use poison darts to stealth kill everyone but the grenadier, then you’ll be able to air assassinate him freely. After that the second ship’s easy, because almost all the guards are not facing your objective. Find the right moment, get on board, set it on fire and run back into the water! Tried it today, I guarantee it works👍
@fortunatesoul12
3 жыл бұрын
It's just a breeze hearing you talking about mechanics across a franchise for almost an hour, don't know how you do it. This felt like a laid back retrospective but also a call to action about the current state of play, very nice
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate that! :D
@Boss-jl4ue
3 жыл бұрын
At this point I've almost given up on AC. The whole RPG thing just doesn't make sense for the series. It's sad, I've been playing these games since Ac2 and I really like them. It feels weird to say about a game series but it feels like a small part of my childhood and life in general is just dissipating slowly and slowly to the point where I don't even recognize it any more. With most game franchises when you put them side by side you can typically tell they're from that same franchise, but not AC, not any more, it just doesn't feel like the same game it used to be. Idk, maybe i'm just making too much of it but it bothers me to see this franchise I love so much grow further and further from what it was originally and I feel like we'll never get another "classic" Ac game. I get change is good for a franchise, but this just doesn't feel like good change. Side note I really want a non platformer Shao Jun game, or at least one that take place in a big Asian city.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
"It feels weird to say about a game series but it feels like a small part of my childhood and life in general is just dissipating slowly and slowly to the point where I don't even recognize it any more." This. This is how I feel. A friend of mine recently mentioned on Twitter that, "Old AC fans don't owe New AC fans validation. Ubisoft taking the series in the direction it is, that's them validating YOU. When we miss classic AC, we just want back what we fell in love with. That's not gatekeeping." It really hit me hard. +10 on your Shao Jun comment, I think she deserves a 'main' game. She's a fascinating enough character and I'd love to see her come back in a big way.
@parasthesia1
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue brotherhood stealth, ac 1 parkour mechanics, and ac 2 level of story (with shao jun of course)
@chaseanderson2726
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like Valhalla is trying to move away from the rpg stuff because they gave us back some social stealth and they decreased the rpg elements that were way too heavy in Odyssey
@parasthesia1
3 жыл бұрын
i knew he would either put unity in S or hell tier lol
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
If Unity wasn't in S-Tier I'd probably get immense amounts of hate-mail, even though in reality I wouldn't actually put it above a B.
@jereroivanen7263
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue so this is not a honest list?
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
@@jereroivanen7263 It's pretty honest, but I was quite forgiving to all the games. If I were even harsher, most of these would be lower.
@jereroivanen7263
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue okay cool
@Pedro_Le_Chef
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue What is your favorite stealth game? Also, I'm honestly surprised you don't play dishonored.
@gUwU47
3 жыл бұрын
Haven't even watched yet, but I already know this gonna be juicy. edit: my AC3 stan inside is crying :'(
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
:[
@gUwU47
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Jokes aside, great video.
@chinwyian
3 жыл бұрын
I do love AC3 because of my man Connor/Ratonhnhaké:ton, but the stealth missions are just, bane of my existence, like the mission Conflict Looms 100% stealth. I hated it. Other than that I loved AC3, but again the stealth missions were kind of a turn off
@gUwU47
3 жыл бұрын
@@chinwyian "Air Assassinate a Grenadier, oh and also don't get detected with our broken guard AI with 5 other guards in his proximity" . Hah yeah i get you
@lorywolfsong1885
3 жыл бұрын
"AC3..." pauses. "... ok."
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
hahahaha
@erichweibel
3 жыл бұрын
I would air assassinate a red coat then someone instantly turns around and I go into combat
@naunau311
3 жыл бұрын
Leo: AC 3 My mind: "Wait you can stealth in this game? I thought it was a tomahawk simulator"
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, check out Lang and Jcers' videos ^__^
@Messi-rw9ng
3 жыл бұрын
"We work in the *_dark_* to serve the light. We are *_Assassins."_* - Ezio Auditore da Firenze Ubisoft seemed to have forgotten it's own words. Stealth is key to an AC game, I don't give a crap if it's supposed to be a brutal Viking berserker or a Spartan rage Kratos. They're Assassins (or supposed to be), therefore they would've been indoctrinated in stealth combat.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I wish 'evolution' didn't also have to mean 'throw away everything that made you You.'
@Messi-rw9ng
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue "It's evolving. Just backwards." 😂
@marinko6450
3 жыл бұрын
A- to the fcking-men.
@woo9554
3 жыл бұрын
I mean, not necessarily. Who says an assassin needs to learn stealth?
@Messi-rw9ng
3 жыл бұрын
@@woo9554 The Assassin's Creed, literally their doctrine or "rules" of the organization, has three tenets and one of which states as follows: _"Hide in plain sight, be one with the crowd."_ To be an Assassin, one has to “assassinate” people literally the word "assassination" means to inflict a *surprise* attack. Another tenet is to _"Never compromise the Brotherhood"_ which is basically saying to keep things in secrecy and espionage. The heart of the Assassin versus Templar conflict is wrapped around conspiracy. There's no way around it, Assassin's are meant to learn stealth even if it isn't the individuals main choice of combat.
@jcers
3 жыл бұрын
Watched it in full. Can’t say I really disagree with anything on here. In regards to Valhalla, there are a few things I’d like to add. Hitting “special” guards with sleep arrows is useless, as they will completely shake off the effect. The worst part is that it never used to be like this. On launch, sleep arrows guaranteed a guard to be unconscious, 100% of the time, and when they changed it to work this way, they never bothered to tell us about it anywhere; not in game or in patch notes. This makes the early game even _more_ frustrating, as the guards who shake off sleep arrows when hit directly with them _do_ get knocked unconscious when they are within the sleep gas cloud emitted by the level 2 variant of Thorn of Slumber. Another major issue is in regards to how guards detect you after seeing dead bodies in restricted/distrust areas. Seeing a corpse puts a guard into a sort of “aware” mode, which means that them getting even the _slightest glimpse_ of you pulls you instantly into combat. You don’t even get a detection ding, or SSI, or Emergency Arrow aim-time, it’s just straight into combat. Now, remember how I said that this applies both to restricted & distrust areas? Yep, that’s right, even if you have Cloak active and are walking facing the opposite direction of a guard, they will still instantly detect you if they are in this aware state. This is quite literally antithetical to the use of Low Profile assassinations, which Valhalla went out of their way to reintroduce. On launch, if you had Cloak active and were walking, assassinating someone would have Eivor do a quick stab that allowed the player to walk away before the body hit the ground and even kill guards while in direct line of sight of other enemies without being detected (outside of a certain radius), like in AC1 or AC3. Now, this mechanic has been gutted from the game, so the point of using Low Profile assassinations has also been removed. Yes, Valhalla technically reintroduced social stealth, but it also (after patches) completely _fucked_ one of its core elements, as far as AC is concerned. I’m so incredibly disappointed with the way the stealth turned out in this game. I went on the record multiple times to say that Valhalla was going to have the best stealth in the entire franchise, but I couldn’t have been further from the truth. What scares me is that, like you said, Ubi can see all of the player stats. They can see that “nobody is playing stealthily”. My worry is that they’ll use this as an excuse to ditch the playstyle altogether in future games by saying that “Well, everyone was having so much trouble with the stealth anyway, so we decided it would be better to remove it to make the game easier to play”. Am I being irrational/hyperbolic? Perhaps, but also maybe not, considering that’s literally the *EXACT SAME FUCKING EXCUSE THAT THEY USED FOR PARKOUR.* Combining that with how well Valhalla sold, and...yea, I’m honestly pretty nervous.
@blackT1E
3 жыл бұрын
At this point, I have given up on making stealth consistent.
@Flatter_Sine
3 жыл бұрын
Wow, Ubisoft, wow. How can they always got it right then they got it wrong at the same time smh.
@ItzGoldfish1
3 жыл бұрын
@@blackT1E At this point im starting to give up on AC in general
@timons777
3 жыл бұрын
Wow man! Good observationS. Don't forget to post this on off. forum.
@avilalanceandrewt.7894
3 жыл бұрын
Yo that's a good point. Post this on Reddit if you can
@dustin_echoes
3 жыл бұрын
But Leo, Assassin's Creed is an oPEn-wORld rpG with dragon birds and flaming horses.
@00Batman
3 жыл бұрын
Huh?
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
feels all kinds of bad, man
@ibrahimismail7881
3 жыл бұрын
@@00Batman yuh
@yeetvp6244
3 жыл бұрын
The new Assassin’s Creed games aren’t even that. They’re basically RPGs with the Assassin’s Creed title slapped on it. You don’t even play as assassins I’m AC Odyssey and Valhalla.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
True enough. I don't technically _need_ to play as a Brotherhood Assassin for it to 'count' as an Assassin's Creed game, I consider Black Flag and Origins valuable neutral-POVs on the AC universe, both of which culminate in being Assassins one way or another. But, yeah, I think that the modern games have a number of issues in basic usability for their playstyles (combat, movement, stealth) that games like, say, Ghost of Tsushima do much better.
@demidog6049
3 жыл бұрын
You saved me 20 dollars with this comment
@yeetvp6244
3 жыл бұрын
@@demidog6049 I’m glad I helped somebody save their money. I payed $60 for the game.
@Abcdefg-uw4id
3 жыл бұрын
@@yeetvp6244 I am sorry for your loss...😞
@ivargaming2674
3 жыл бұрын
Things change you can’t have the same thing forever I actually love the new games
@blackT1E
3 жыл бұрын
Okay where is Metal Gear Solid 4? We have Altair with an automatic pistol and it's not on the list smh.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
True! SSS beside Ghost of Tsushima.
@aLikeSupreme
3 жыл бұрын
You should do one for your favorite stealth games in general
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Metal Gear Solid V, Ghost of Tsushima, Dishonored 1
@aylaanimates
3 жыл бұрын
When I was little, I always watched how my brother played Assassin's Creed II. Recently, I picked up his old save file and started playing the game myself. I don't know the controls and I am the worst assassin ever, but I'm having a lot of fun and your videos explaining how the games work help me a lot! Thank you! Maybe someday I'll be a good assassin, haha
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much!
@mwjgcreeves4984
3 жыл бұрын
I legit busted out laughing when it came time for AC3 lmao. Stealth is basically impossible unless you ALWAYS expect the worst and take NO risks. I discovered by accident that guards detect you based on the action's nature and NOT its visibility. An example is if you air assassinate a rooftop guard, the ones on street level will detect you on the first frames of the jumping animation no matter the fact the guard you're killing and the assassination will be out of sight. Also the fact that guards can hear bodies drop from a mile away. Oh, and if you call your recruits from stealth and they get into combat you WILL get detected and Connor will exit the hiding spot automatically... WTF
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Let's be honest, everyone knew that was coming xD "Assassin's Creed III... ... _okay."_
@mwjgcreeves4984
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue lmao exactly. I also forgot to mention I had to abandon the playthrough of AC3 Remaster I was on because Connor LOST THE BOW wtf. It's a bug carried from the 2012 version that is unfixable and since AC3 obviously doesn't have multiple saves that's all she wrote. Nice.
@xXSH1N0B1Xx
2 жыл бұрын
@@mwjgcreeves4984 backup your saves.. its not hard
@Assasinsmikel
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, but it also has its good things, for example the enemies are more intelligent than the rest of the games in the franchise (of the classic games) In AC 2 etc the enemies if they saw you in the distance they didn't come for you, when they saw a body they forgot almost quickly In AC3 you have one of the best AI, with its flaws that is. But it is applicable to all AC There are games that the enemies do not detect you from afar, etc., but in turn, their AI is one of the stupidest in the franchise, such as the Ezio trilogy, etc. But then there are others like AC3 where the AI sometimes seems like the Terminator detecting from below you, but it compensates by having an AI that when you are on the ground, if the enemies see you in the distance they will look for you, enemies that if they see a corpse and you are close they will go to warn you etc In short, no AC is perfect in stealth, and I see very unfair the bad treatment that has been given to Assassin' Creed 3 for the stealth issue in this video Because it has one of the best stealth systems, apart from the fact that thanks to Assassins Creed 3 there were many new stealth mechanics, which Unity copied etc.
@Omar-Asim
2 жыл бұрын
Chronicles China has been sitting in my library for quite a while and did not expect for it to be even included in the list, let alone be on top. I downloaded it, and after a few days of ghosting through the game, I truly believe it's actually a hidden gem that every AC fan should play! (Well at least the stealth-oriented folks)
@LeoKRogue
2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad I could turn you toward this game! Happy you enjoyed it too. :D
@DNH17
Жыл бұрын
It is, I did not imagine India and Russia being worse, this proves that gaming (quality) is about level design, and other design decisions and always will stay so. In these 10 years of gaming really lowering quality, players have still not understood it...
@NoahStavish
3 жыл бұрын
Brotherhood's crossbow is legendary by itself. Edit: I'm surprised you didn't talk about how Valhalla's raids actively discouraged stealth by spawning in more enemies when raids begin and forcing players to start raids to collect resources. Or how most missions force you into large battles and conflicts, and actively remove the option of stealth. Or that you can't assassinate some enemies like zealots even with instant-assassination on.
@ramanspeedballof930
3 жыл бұрын
Totally agree on Unity being S tier. I'd say it's even SS tier. IMO Unity is the best assassin's creed game considering parkour and stealth. It's difficult to control Arno, but if you master the game - there's nothing stopping you. You can climb everything super-quick and kill everyone ultra-quick. You just need time and thought put into the game, and you're good!
@Pedro_Le_Chef
Жыл бұрын
be careful with the "SS" label :p
@_Phen_
Жыл бұрын
@@Pedro_Le_Chefholy! Lmaooo
@TheCapitalWanderer
11 ай бұрын
correction : not master the game, master the jamk
@Michael-qe6bo
3 жыл бұрын
Not expected, but very much needed.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Glad!
@Sephyroth97
3 жыл бұрын
We knew the list already, in our hearts, but it was still needed to show it. The mask is off, Shao Jun is waifu and Legion is this year's AC. Fun Fact: LeoK is actually first in the comments...you just haven't detected him yet.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
LOL
@Stealthful_
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah (last years).
@diabetusultrainstinct7737
3 жыл бұрын
this video was the reason i played the chronicles games. i always just sort of assumed that they were bad and just fill ins until the next installment. i thank you sir!
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Sweet, thanks for giving them a shot. :D
@assassiiinuss9393
3 жыл бұрын
Unity's placement is a direct result of Valhalla, isn't it?
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Completely.
@noheadshotbear4254
3 жыл бұрын
Valhalla stealth is atrocious, I don’t think I have been able to do something stealthy more than once or twice and it’s very frustrating
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it really upsets me. I don't even know how they managed to get that done. All you had to do was use the perfectly serviceable cover, detection-rules, and enemy-states from Origins and Odyssey, and it would've been fine. But nope. Even if it would've taken more work to do so, it would have been worth it because a chunk of the playerbase wouldn't be imploding right now.
@SSJ_Lang
3 жыл бұрын
cant say i disagree at all tbh
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate the support man ^___^
@theenimus3081
3 жыл бұрын
Just getting back into the franchise I can say that I prefer Unity over the others. To me, the stealth, gear, parkour and consumables system they had worked best in the environment of Paris and I thoroughly enjoyed the storyline too. The physics were clunky to say the least but it never 100% drove me away from the game. The online mode is very fun, even when playing with randoms I still found myself running through the missions solo but with a mute companion at my side. Also the overall feel of upgrading Arno to fit your play style was a part I enjoyed the most, getting the full medieval set for max HP was funny however the practicalities of mixing the Sans Culottes with Medieval to get the best of HP and Stealth was something that lasted me beyond end game. Once again Leo, wonderful video, keep up the good work :)
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I think that's a pretty reasonable way to describe Unity, yup. Kind of a weird game, but if you can give it your energy and stick with it, it will eventually reward you for your effort.
@chickenfeeet
3 жыл бұрын
I liked AC Unity and Syndicate the most in stealth
@thomaspooser3044
3 жыл бұрын
Now I wanna play as Ezio again, lol
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Dooo iiittt
@thatsaweirdone
3 жыл бұрын
So I am currently playing AC3 for the first time, and have spent a fair amount of time in it. When I first watched this video, I was like, "Huh, AC3 doesn't look very hard or unforgiving in terms of stealth". Well, now that I have some time in the game, yeah, I truly get what Leo says here
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Glad you've seen the light haha
@StealthAC
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'm doing my first play through now as well, it's a brilliant game but stealth is impossible 😂
@thatsaweirdone
3 жыл бұрын
@@StealthAC yeah exactly. The SSI is BS
@noturdad101
3 жыл бұрын
AC Unity. Pinnacle of AC stealth, hands down in my opinion
@00Batman
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed it seems a lot more effective and practical
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I figured some people would say so.
@noturdad101
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue lol u have a pretty pro-unity audience
@titularhero
3 жыл бұрын
Rogue has my favourite stealth, but unfortunately the encounters don't really have enough enemies, I feel like I use stealth im skipping the game because its over so quick.
@basheerahmed1793
3 жыл бұрын
I have wanted something like this I always loved leo talks so you know I'll love this. Ima say it again ( And always going to say it ) your voice is AMAZING!
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Heyyy, thanks so much! It seems people are receiving this kind of content very well, so I may make more.
@otterbells
3 жыл бұрын
I remember trying to stealth through a town in Valhalla recently and it had one of those bells the guards could ring to alert the whole area of a problem. And I have never seen a thing be so useless in an AC game for the AI enemies, because as you said, EVERYONE knows you're there if you get caught in Valhalla. It sucks because the stealth can feel SO GOOD in this game when it works, but it can be broken so, so so easily. I had a blast navigating Ledescestre and Offchurch in the story full stealth, but in between those two things was Templebrough and that location sucked so bad. I got caught a couple times and managed to keep stealth by some miracle, but it got frustrating to the point I flat out gave up and hacked away because the guards just kept coming and coming and never stopped. And it's a damn shame, too. When you can hit that sweet spot for stealth in Valhalla it can be worth it, it can be exhilerating, but it's so hard to hit it that there often isn't a bloody point. It also sometimes just doesn't feel correct to play stealthy since Eivor is a viking :| I often find myself wishing I was playing Hytham instead, because then I'd feel more personally motivated to find stuff like the old bureaus and taking down the order targets - since in the grand scheme for Eivor the order feels tacked on and forgettable. :/
@chaseanderson2726
3 жыл бұрын
I think their trying to bring back Assassin's Creed by introducing Social Stealth again, you actually have a hidden blade, they decreased a lot of the RPG elements but the big problem is the broken stealth, but they have the Siege of Paris DLC that will probably fix a lot of their underlying issues and might also end up have Eivor becoming an Assassin and they might finally WEAR THE HIDDEN BLADE CORRECTLY AND NOT HAVE THIS VERY OBVIOUS WEAPON JUST HANGING OUT, but other than that I think Ubisoft is trying to bring Assassins Creed back
@otterbells
3 жыл бұрын
@@chaseanderson2726 For me my problem with the series is how we've kind of gotten stuck being a character that's not in the brotherhood at all in recent games. No matter what Siege of Paris brings, main game proper Valhalla Eivor is a viking first in every way and stealth is basically optional. The assassin way of sticking to the shadows conflict with their own interests. And that's the main thing that is pulling me out of the experience more often than my struggles with the stealth. Bringing back the social stealth and the hidden blade back is a good step forward, but I think what's needed to push it back into a nice middle ground is for a game to follow a character that is actively in the Assassin Brotherhood again instead of someone on the outside/fringe. That way the stealth and parkour is prioritized a little bit more not just because it's a gameplay pillar that deserves attention, but because it is the "preferred" method of action for the character we play. I've gotten a little better at staying hidden to be stealthy in Valhalla since my comment but it's really this part that bugs me more. I can play like an assassin would now, but Eivor's story and character is not that of an assassin, not truly. I don't feel a lot of personal investment/interest from Eivor regarding stuff like Order members and the Bureaus. I've been finding myself wishing I could play as Hytham instead.
@winladd5235
3 жыл бұрын
The reason i went full stealth in Odyssey was to bypass the awfull combat
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Yup.
@Frank-mw5se
3 жыл бұрын
I just finished Assassin's creed unity again, the stealth potential is there; but the jankyness of parkour and the delay in the movement system is very frustrating. I couldn't get in the flow I usually could be in like The older AC's or origins.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I get that. Movement underpins everything so the ever-present clunk just affects the entire experience.
@Frank-mw5se
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Now the question how could they go back to their roots in the next game? More tools? Level design? Skill based parkour? What makes a definitive AC stealth experience?
@emotion0005
3 жыл бұрын
Could you at some point make an ac tier list just giving your opinion on the game's story and gameplay? It would be cool to know your ranking on games that you don't talk about much like AC3 or Syndicate
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
It's definitely something I've considered! At least Present Day stuff would be cool.
@Brandon_Y.
3 жыл бұрын
Great tier placements. It is very unforunate the last 2 AC games is at the bottom of the stealth ranking.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Isn't it? Games usually try to improve over time but Cyberpunk 2077 and Ghost of Tsushima easily out-class Odyssey and Valhalla in terms of fluid, pleasant stealth gameplay. So sad.
@doda508
3 жыл бұрын
pls do this for movement and parkour
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Will do!
@juinyk
3 жыл бұрын
Lol AC3 is definitely a combat game, agreed. It was so exhausting to be stealthy when I could just bulldoze through everyone in half the time
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Connor is just a murder-MACHINE, he's great
@alexandraromanescu5576
3 жыл бұрын
The first AC games were just like that
@StealthAC
3 жыл бұрын
I like to see revelations rated so highly, I don't think it gets enough attention in comparison to ac ii and brotherhood
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's got a lot of good stuff.
@Yuri-fq9bi
3 жыл бұрын
its funny i always loved revalations (in part because it was my first ac game) and i feel like its overshadowed by the other games to the point where its almost ignored, also the bombs and crafting them were really cool, i always loved messing around with the different types. Also ive never understood why that was the only game (to my knowledge) where you could actually THROW your bombs instead of dropping them at your feet, like its always baffled me why they didnt bring that back until unity
@StealthAC
3 жыл бұрын
@@Yuri-fq9bi you can actually throw bombs in ac3 and rogue. In ac3 lock on to the enemy and wait till the cross hair glows, in rogue its explained in the story. Hope this helps you in your next playthrough :)
@fashionkiller11
3 жыл бұрын
Great video. Stealth is the pillar in AC that i am the least well versed in, i am more of a parkour/combat guy, but i always try to go for stealth. And its really fun when it works out. Also hard agree on your Valhalla ranking. Stealth is so fucked in that game. From instant detection across the map and through objects to inconistent guard reactions, and essentially no way to actually get better at it e.g. no skills regarding detection speed, footstep sounds etc., only stealth damage, which is really limiting. So i always end up headshoting everyone or just solving it in combat because its faster, easier and not completely random wether i succed or not. Stealth is already kind of a gimmick in the Valhalla because of how easy it is, so when the player limits itself and plays unefficient in order to live a fantasy then it should at least work. This type of video would work well for the other 2 pillars, would it not ? :)
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Stealth is probably the least controversial topic because everyone can kind of see what makes it good or bad, Combat and Movement are much, much more controversial and fiery because people want different things from them. As an example, if I were to say Unity has the worst Combat in the series and the second-worst Parkour in the series, people would probably be furious -- but it's true.
@fashionkiller11
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Haha yea, i would actually agree with that concrete example. And the discsussions on the main subreddit about which parkour and combat is the best will probably never end. I think doing a tierlist for combat and parkour could be a good reference for other people that don't want to explain the same stuff over and over again. If you would change of the categorie names a little bit in order to accomodate for the subjective nature of the ranking e.g. rate parkour under the premise of freedom of movement, player agency and amout of hand-holding. That way it would be easier for people to better understand why you rank somethng the way you do. I find that people often disagree with each other because they fail to realizie that they are looking for completely different things. Of course this is completely up to you but i would really enjoy having a video to refer to whenever i want to explain to someone why i like a certain kind of system. Just my 2 cents. I actually thought about doing something like this myself but i haven't really done any videos so i was afraid of not reachign a certain quality standard. But considering how often i talk about stuff like this anyway it doesn't seem to be a bad idea.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Sounds like it could be worth doing. I'll look into it.
@fashionkiller11
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Awesome, that's all i can ask for !
@Tobirulezs
3 жыл бұрын
Valhalla was my first AC game and if not for the fact I had a copy of unity that was laying around for idk 6 years that I never played, it would definitely be my last AC game LOL after playing unity I don't even want to go back to Valhalla
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
You're in good company, then. :P The first DLC for Valhalla is coming soon and I'm dreading what kind of weird-ass design it might have. I'll still play it so I can let people know what's up, but yeah.
@Tobirulezs
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue until I can complete the world events not even gonna download DLC for Valhalla lmao on a 2nd play through it worked, still would like to complete my initial game and not have to play it all over again you know, game is so grindy but yeah there is no stealth playing at all, when it does work I laugh xD
@blader400
3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree with AC Chronicles China and its ghost rating system being legendary! Great vid.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Milan ^_^
@ABadassDragon
3 жыл бұрын
It more like Dishonored and everything like Dishonored is amazing
@arunray7893
3 жыл бұрын
Can we just agree that Abilities are faaaar worse than actual Tools? And Adrenaline sucks too
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. They're just... So limiting.
@chinwyian
3 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with your tier list. Especially on AC3. Even though I love the story, experincing Connor’s/Ratonhnhaké:ton’s story, I hated the stealth missions. Especially Conlict Looms. It was near impossible to NOT get detected. Especially the “air assassinate a grenadier” objective. That was the bane of my existence. Just one stealth mission along the others that I hate.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
That mission and Full Sync condition is everyone's favorite~ >:)
@chinwyian
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue love unity but sometimes when I’m playing the parkour makes me think Arno grew wings and flew from chimney to chimney
@marcgiudice6070
3 жыл бұрын
Hope Leo sees this, and I’m pretty sure he’s already used/utilized this considering it’s almost Feb now but I found out if you are in a stalking zone and roll out of it, you won’t be detectable until the roll is complete, allowing easier movement between cover. Super useful in Aelfwood or whatever the final fortress in glowcestreshire is
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
That's super cool! If Valhalla is ever patched and I decide to play it again, I'll make use of this.
@Serendide
3 жыл бұрын
Yo I couldn't agree more with ac valhallas placement, the detection system feels so random its like the game rolls a dice to see if a guard will detect me or if they will be oblivious to my presence. And the enemy placement in the bigger forts and outposts are so horrendous. I will attempt to full stealth a fort or try to get footage and then i come to an area where 4 guards are blocking each others lines of sight and i cant do anything about it so I end up just scraping the run because I hate the rpg styled combat with a passion.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
This is a great description of the general experience I, and many other players, have been having. Thank you for your addition, the more people we can get to speak up about their experiences, the better the chance this game moves in a healthier direction over time.
3 жыл бұрын
Leo: talking about the AC games as a whole KZitem: so you mean only AC brotherhood?
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
It's trying its best.
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue the best dosen't mean good Leo...
@coryskinner
3 жыл бұрын
@LeoK[Rogue] I didn’t preorder AC Valhalla bc of this and I ultimately got Ghost of Tsushima instead. Long story short I have platinum Ghost and wanted to know is it worth buying Valhalla now and if so which version would you feel is worth getting thanks and happy hunting
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for playing Ghost of Tsushima! My favorite game of 2020, easily. As for whether it's worth buying Valhalla now, I would say, keep waiting. There are still *a lot* of bugs, and new bugs are being created with every new patch. When the game is stabilized and mostly-fixed, I will upload an Update video about it.
@coryskinner
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Same I love Ghost. Speaking of uploading would you consider uploading your play through of Ghost of Tsushima bc I don’t have twitch and I would love to see more of how you played. Thanks for responding because like you I’ve been with AC for such a long time and have been really dissatisfied with these last AC rpg type games. Again I appreciate the response and am gladly awaiting your update video if it ever comes. Keep up the good work and thanks again.
@andytoskovic
3 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this video! Apart from your chill voice, I found it very informational and relaxing! I didn’t play Unity, Syndicate, Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla yet, so I am not eligible to speak about these games, but regarding the rest, I agree 98% of the time! Probably the only difference I would make is to put Black Flag and Rogue in S tier because I am amazed by the stealth system in these games. I always love remembering how I abused the hell out of it in order to make enemies my dancing puppets where I do whatever I want with them :D So much freedom in these two (maybe slightly more in Rogue even). I also love how accurately you described your thoughts on Chronicles, and I couldn’t agree more. I don’t know what happened after China, but India and Russia just felt different (I did like all three though, unlike you). India is probably my least favorite game overall, but stealth in India and Russia is really not that satisfying as it is in China. Given enemy positions and level architecture, India/Russia felt a lot more like a puzzle game and I hate puzzle games. China is a puzzle to a certain degree, but I felt a lot more quality in overall gameplay. I’m very excited to play Unity, Syndicate and Origins when I buy a new PC, not that I am not excited for Odyssey and Valhalla, but it really bugs me that an AC game doesn’t have proper stealth. I really hope I’ll disagree with you one day when I play these games as that means I enjoyed stealth 😂 Tier list videos like this one suit you and your commentary a lot
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the nice comment! I hope you eventually disagree with me on Valhalla as well, because THAT will mean they have patched it by the time you begin hahaha. It's quite helpful to hear that this kind of video suits me, I've been hearing that so much after releasing it that I'm really encouraged to make more.
@andytoskovic
3 жыл бұрын
@Leo K [Rogue] that was actually my subtle intention, I would like you to make more tier lists in the future, even if it’s not AC related, I’ll be happy to hear your thoughts :) Cheers
@DJordan115
3 жыл бұрын
I've played most of the older AC games, but after spending too much time yelling at my TV while playing Valhalla, I had to search and see if I was the only one who hated the stealth in this game. I love stealth but I get so frustrated with it in this game. Like you said, you get spotted immediately and so inconsistently it'll drive you crazy. Here's hoping they fix it, but probably not.
@ej5417
3 жыл бұрын
I have completely given up on trying to play valhalla stealthily. I will pop a vein and have a brain stroke if I ever try again, I’m even getting angry just listening to leo talking about valhalla stealth
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
It's just heartbreaking, I can't believe it.
@travisbewley7084
3 жыл бұрын
You serious? Like 90% of ACV can be taken on at a wildly low level as long as you use stealth and it's really forgiving. Stealth is the most effective of the play styles.
@RogueDEV96
3 жыл бұрын
What I dont like about Unity is that it feels very clunky to control Arno. Its actually very frustrating. I feel like Syndicate partially fixed this issue, even though its the same engine, it doesnt feel as clunky as Unity
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. It's utterly brutal and people who say it's 'perfect after patches' are full of it LMAO. Unity has to be one of the clunkiest games in the series, and no amount of training or practice can 100% compensate for it.
@javieralmodovar2068
3 жыл бұрын
I mean I like Valhalla and I play it stealth your right on a lot of what you said I hate the enemy placement in the game like why are there so many groups of guards together the like what am I suppose to do? They need an ability that like let’s you multiple assassinate guards like odeyssey (or a smoke bomb attached to an arrow) also I barely ever climb for fear guards will spot me
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
All very true. None of these things have been addressed, either, despite the game being released for around four months now. Since they haven't entered any of these things into Known Issues _or_ put out any kind of statement admitting it's a problem - once again, for four months - I have to believe that the game is "working as intended" and this will never be fixed.
@roguehydraac8567
3 жыл бұрын
Make some more tierlist videos!
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
You think so?
@gliscorarcanine5582
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue of course, always great to hear input from highly skilled players
@consciouseco775
Ай бұрын
How can I disable the steam version of Assassin's Creed 2 from accessing uplay?
@LeoKRogue
Ай бұрын
I don't know, not sure if you can.
@dustinakadustin
3 жыл бұрын
Really disappointing to hear that about Valhalla, was really excited for it. Hopefully by the time I get around to playing it they'll have fixed it up a bit. I'm not playing it till I've finished my series playthrough😁
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
There's always a chance they patch and fix it, yeah. :)
@jackcaldwell8748
3 жыл бұрын
My perfect assassin's creed game, just talking about gameplay, not story. Is to essentially make ghost of tsushima, with social stealth. Let us throw smoke bombs. Combat is like ghost too. Instead of stances, have different weapons. Parkour system like ac1-revelations, however, make it flow just a bit faster and look a bit better to appease dumb asses who think straight scaling a building is "parkour". Urban environment.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Same.
@williamducote8382
3 жыл бұрын
I know I'm preaching to the choir here but you really nailed it when you described Odyssey's stealth gameplay. I had to grind for hours so I could put points into crit chance, assassination damage, and adrenaline on assassination just to make it work. When you can get your spear to rank 5 and can use rank 3 abilities it can be a fun time to clear out forts but it feels more satisfying to clear out forts through stealth in a more realistic method. For example, the stealth in origins isn't exactly the most realistic but using the variety of tools at your disposal (great video on explaining the smoke bombs btw) feels more like you're a master assasin rather than just throwing your spear and magically teleporting to your enemies location and also being able to turn invisible which can make stealth stupidly easy. I had hoped they would get back to a more realistic route in valhalla but they seem to mostly stick with this demigod fantasy.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Valhalla is, to its credit, much more grounded than Odyssey. You don't really have any ability that you can't suspend disbelief for, or wave away with Animus hacks. I appreciate that a lot. What I don't appreciate is how hopelessly inconsistent the simple act of sneaking around enemies is in this game. You're either completely invisible or instantly known to the entire nation, there's nothing in-between.
@williamducote8382
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue I agree, I usually have to stick to the rooftops and pick off enemies with the hunter bow. It just feels weird because they put emphasis on bringing back the hidden blade and for what? So you can kill around two enemies before and entire camp or fort detects you? I do hope they patch this in the future since there are gear sets that promote stealth (such as the hidden ones set) and its a damn shame that they're pretty much useless because you get detected almost immediately.
@psychoslayer2782
5 ай бұрын
everything you said in this video was 100% valid, and while I do agree that a mana system is a major L for an assassin's creed game with any stealth options at all, I think ubisoft was kinda just like let's keep making combat games and I was already locked into that when starting ORIGINS, not to mention odyssey and valhalla. atp it never made sense why they were still in the assassin's creed franchise, but I played them as combat games and somewhat just took myself out of the sneak around, use tools mindset, and somewhat enjoyed them (despite their other atrocities like the dime a dozen side quests and horrendous storylines). they were just, games with nice big open worlds that I could run around in and nothing more. thankfully ac mirage brought it back and it's the best game in the series since unity lol
@LeoKRogue
5 ай бұрын
I'm down for them doing anything, just wish if that was truly the intent they'd stop marketing stealth as being this cool viable valid thing for so many games in a row until eventually they cracked and relented and released Mirage, where they actually made a stealth game and wow, were honest in marketing that Basim is not a fighter. It's just interesting how they're fine communicating the truth of a game one way but not the other way, y'know? Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed those games alright for what they were, but this is a stealth tier list and not a "how good is this game" tier list so of course I had to discuss that.
@psychoslayer2782
5 ай бұрын
@@LeoKRogue yeah I fully agree. just gotta hope now what Bordeaux did will be for the better, but the whole "infinity" thing gives me doubts
@gabrielximenes911
3 жыл бұрын
Another amazing video! You are a gem in KZitem, so glad I know this channel. We would love to see more contente like this!
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! It seems people are really loving this, so I'll make a few more.
@moneyb6173
3 жыл бұрын
So accurate! I hate valhalla ngl, it's way too long! I haven't even finished yet and I pre ordered it aswell. I hate the rpg. Origins is alright, not bad. Odyssey is trash. Syndicate is alright, unity is good, rogue I haven't played so idk, 4 black flag is also good and the rest I don't have so idk.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I hope you get a chance to play the rest at some point. :D
@Ryan-dp4rs
3 жыл бұрын
Love this type of content, Leo :)
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. It's very different from what I usually do.
@Ryan-dp4rs
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Hearing you give your in-depth 2 cents on every game was very enjoyable.
@theaaat
3 жыл бұрын
Ac Valhalla is soooooo goood but damn the stealth makes it soooooooo bad they really need to fix it. to be honest I recon they should do what they’ve been doing since origins but change the game name.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
They have had four months to address it and they haven't even _mentioned_ being aware that it's a problem. I don't see this ever being fixed. They simply don't care.
@jvan28
3 жыл бұрын
Hot damn, I don’t think I truly appreciated Origins’ stealth as much as I do now without watching this video and then going back and replaying it. It just has such a flow and fun sense of creativity to it despite no social stealth. I really hope they fix Valhalla cause it has so potential being squandered. I know this is late but great video man.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much Jude. :) I _really_ hope they give Valhalla the attention it deserves, yeah. The game really does have so much potential, it hurts to see it like this.
@Hasnotalent
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Leo! Just getting around to watching this in full over the last few days. This is such a great video, the way you clearly explain your views and go into minute detail about each game is great. This video gives a sense of being absolutely soaked in knowledge and it's so clear from hearing you speak how much of a pro you are. One of my favourite videos from you and I learned a ton of nuance between the games I didn't know existed. Watching this was the best part of my last few days! Keep up the good work and looking forward to watching more Leo K : )
@Azazel5021
3 жыл бұрын
AC Origins is the closest the series felt like MGS V. Shame it didn't reach it, and probably never will. AC Syndicate is terrible. If I had a dollar for each time I did a front attack instead of front assassinate I'd be a millionaire. Spot on list all 'n all! Thanks
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching. :D
@aZeddPrattFilm
3 жыл бұрын
Syndicate is under rated.
@Azazel5021
3 жыл бұрын
@@aZeddPrattFilm to each their own
@prenatual
3 жыл бұрын
That was fast! Great breakdown, exactly what I want to see when I search for a tier list. Trying to find a list like this on general gaming sites is plain impossible: they either read like blurbs borrowed from Wikipedia or they focus on discussing the story, barely mentioning the game mechanics. This one gets straight to the point. Valhalla's wounds are still fresh, huh? Sucks to hear about it. From the previews I read it seemed that Ubisoft wanted to return to how earlier games handled stealth, after more RPG-heavy approach of previous two entries. Guess it didn't worked out for other reasons. And shame about 2&3rd Chronicles. First one was a very unexpected surprise. Do you know if the team responsible for it moved on to other Ubi's projects or did they try to make something similar without the AC brand? You convinced me to check out Unity -- I've seen plenty of memes making fun of it, but it seems like there was a good game hiding underneath the bugs. Still looks amazing too, after 6 years.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so, so much! If you do check out the game, I hope you enjoy it, and definitely feel free to ask questions since like the rest of this series, its positives all come with major caveats. Climax Studios seem to mostly do Ports of games, which is a shame. I think they have some real talent. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Climax_games
@8.3.4.N
3 жыл бұрын
Do you think Ubisoft are noticing the amount of love for the old games recently? If you go on the AC subreddit, a very significant amount of the posts are about the old games and how great they were. For a while, people who like the RPGs seemed to be the majority, but now it seems to be around half and half. Maybe new fans have been playing the old games.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I'm sure they notice, but unless something gets an explosion of upvotes numbering in the thousands, online voices are a minority.
@ziwuri
2 жыл бұрын
Gamers: We want to be Assassins with a hood and a hidden blade, blending into crowds and fighting against the Templars! Ubisoft: 30:23
@utsavbasu1048
3 жыл бұрын
Have u played shadow tactics blades of shogun, if not u should try it, isometric stealth game
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I love it!
@d1twem14
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Leo! I ve been watching you for some time, and I wanted to say that I LOVEEEEE ur videos. I was wondering if you can help me with something. I copied an AC Unity save, and i dont know how to insert it back into the game. I hope someone will help me!
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! It really depends what platform you're on. On Xbox I don't know how it works, I'm really sorry. :[ If you're on PC, you can look at the PCGamingWiki article for Unity and see where the save location is; www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed_Unity#Save_game_data_location If you're on PS4, you can copy and over-write your save file from a USB Drive or by downloading it from your PS+ Cloud.
@icarusgaming6269
3 жыл бұрын
Various nerdy rants incoming: While I'd agree about AC1 in general, Jcers somehow found a way to make it look expressive and dynamic. That probably says more about the player than the game, but it's worth noting the potential is almost always there The recruits in Brotherhood and Revelations were the biggest improvement for me. When used alongside tool combos, they allowed you to get something like seven kills at a time with proper planning. It's been eight years since this feature was in the series. Think about that Revelations added such a huge number of tools, they would be difficult to count. It asked you to craft your own, so if all you used were smoke and firecrackers, then you probably didn't get the most out of the sandbox. It's easy to fall back on the same three you're familiar with because of the restrictions of your inventory, but once you learn to get creative, you can set traps, manipulate civilians, and remove entire groups without laying a finger on them. In fact, I should revisit this one with late-game crafting and see if I can freak some guards out with weird bomb combos AC3 introduced the breakneck pace and momentum by completely reworking the way your characters handle to smoothly chain from one kill to the next. In classic AC games, it doesn't matter how well you know your toolbelt; if one guard walks around the corner just as you plunge your blade into another, you'll never get to that gadget in time to avoid cascading detections. This was destructive for improv, and AC3 fixed it. We wouldn't value pace as much as we do today if it weren't for AC3 showing us how awesome it is. It was also here that crowds made the transition from static to dynamic, although they were unfortunately underutilized in the level design, and it added a lot of new assassination methods from various positions that either weren't possible before or didn't exist, including the rope tool moves Liberation has an entirely new playstyle available with The Lady outfit designed for ghost. Bribe your way through gates, pull guards around to use as mobile hiding spots, and completely remove your target from the mission area. There's nothing else in the series like it. The enemies also actually *try* to kill you in combat, so the alternative is somewhat challenging this time around. I liked this one so much I wrote a full-length review on Reddit. Liberation is my game💞 Black Flag's level design takes all the most obnoxious tropes of the series and dials them up to 11. Almost every stealth mission desyncs if you get spotted for even one frame. Eavesdrop targets are always on the move, in restricted areas with no blend opportunities, and desync if you reach yellow SSI three times. Tails are extremely plentiful for a pirate game and desync if you turn the camera more than 30 degrees away from the target for longer than ten seconds, regardless of visual obstructions. And if you thought normal tailing missions were bad, I present *naval tailing missions,* which cannot be completed without a minimap! It's also in a really poor technical state to this day, with easily replicatable bugs that completely break critical gameplay features. I can't make it through this game anymore According to Jcers, enemies in Rogue have rather obnoxious and inconsistent x-ray vision for dead bodies. This makes trying to kill everyone require a lot of memorizing the location of every hiding spot, but I guess if you're a ghost player it's not a big deal It's rather ironic how few games have ended up in the "fun but janky" category so far given how well that describes the series as a whole. I usually tend to gravitate away from tier lists because of the way they oversimplify things. There are so many things that go into stealth in Assassin's Creed: Movement, tools, detection mechanics, level design, technical consistency. Some of these are quite difficult to rate because different parts of them would end up on opposite ends of the spectrum, like with Unity's persistent bugs and legendary toolset. At least you know how to talk about this stuff without thinking too hard about the numbers Can you get through the last two Chronicles games without glitch? Regardless if you have to kill guards, I just found that feature so vapid (!)
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
MASSIVE COMMENT, WOAH!
@icarusgaming6269
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue The issue with Black Flag is that it takes away your options. Assassin's Creed isn't *exclusively* a stealth series. In fact, I think the Kenway saga has some pretty exceptional combat, so sometimes I'll allow myself to get into a potentially challenging fight to see how badass I can make it look. But the level design in this game forces you into such narrow tactics that invalidate many playstyles, including but not limited to "reckless pirate with too many spy gadgets," which I consider the most authentic way to play Edward. Just because I can sneak all the levels doesn't mean I should have to, especially with so many restrictions to what type of stealth I use
@thedestoryer21
3 жыл бұрын
What about Metal Gear Creed Peace walker? It expands on the formula because you can now MOVE with the haystack. That alone's got to be S tier.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
truuueee!!11one!!11
@hiddenblademaster582
3 жыл бұрын
Everyone is so hard on Valhalla I think it’s better then odyssey at least
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Before the recent patch, maybe. It's so much worse now.
@bender24
3 жыл бұрын
I blame Assassin's Creed downfall to all the hate Unity got. There are things I hate about Unity (there's not even a "New Game" option), but to me it is exactly what I expected from an Assassin's Creed game gameplay-wise. Now the franchise just became a series of generic boring RPG games. And stealth is still there, but it's become such a chore and not fun experience.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Unity got all the hate it deserved on-release, to be perfectly honest. It's... so heartbreaking. It was meant to be _the_ Assassin's Creed game, but Ubisoft managed it so poorly, so improperly, that it soured everyone on what the 'core' of Assassin's Creed should be. And now we're here. Sigh.
@bender24
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue I didn't play it on release. All I know is that it got a lot of backlash for having a lot of bugs. And after Unity, each game started to remove more and more things that I enjoyed about the franchise (I haven't played Syndicate, though). Now it seems that with every new game they're trying too hard to make a generic version of "The Witcher 3" and cater to that audience...
@robosergTV
11 ай бұрын
Odyssey is amazing, same as Origins. You play on max. difficulty and do stealth, its pure AC experience
@LeoKRogue
11 ай бұрын
It's alright. 😅
@eabdoom
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Leo, after seeing your review on ac vallhalla, i decided against buying it. But do you have any stealth games you would recommend besides dishonored,thief,splinter cell,mgs and the other big names?
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Mark of the Ninja, A Plague Tale: Innocence has some stealth in it that I enjoyed, if you have a really strong computer, Cyberpunk 2077 is a good stealth game, Wildfire is fun but hard.
@felixc7503
3 жыл бұрын
I don’t mind ac become a RPG , if they make it right , the stealth already bad , even the battle systems are bad , the raids , those battle are so clumsy, I would rather play For Honor if I want to play a Viking 😂
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Fun way of seeing it, yeah. :P There's a chance that the next game is a spin-off that follows a Knight, and if they JUST do a Combat game with no stealth or parkour, but they make the fighting very GOOD, I would enjoy that anyway.
@felixc7503
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue When I first play Valhalla, seem everything’s good , but those content really, first time good , second time ok, third time boring , and you need to play it for 60 plus hours 😅, and non of them have any reward , if UB really want to make AC a RPG , they need to learn that we don’t need a super big world with so many trash content inside , AAA game is not about hours , is about good content , hope they really can learn it , still UB have one thing always did good , they always make a really beautiful map.
@assassin3g
3 жыл бұрын
Oh hell yes, what better way to procrastinate. I'm 90 hours into Valhalla and I didn't find the book of knowledge about sleep arrows. Got the sexy assassin outfit, but the game is basically diablo to me at this point :)
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
That's probably the best way to play it, to be honest xD
@phongvu-ju5rm
3 жыл бұрын
The fact that I have to download a trainer to make hidden blade assassination a 1-hit kill means origin is on par with odysseys in terms of stealth.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Eh. The stat calculations are different enough to the point where the only guards who I didn't one-hit with Blade in ACO were Juggernauts (the big dudes in Forts) and specific bosses. Also, the level design in Origins is better than the level design in Odyssey, not to mention it has sleep darts and permits ghosting more often. Non-damage related stealth systems and traits are stronger in Origins. By that virtue alone, it's better than Odyssey, full stop. That said, yes, statted stealth is awful.
@phongvu-ju5rm
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue It's not just the juggernauts. But every enemy with a red skull on their health bar. I remember in the beginning of the game in Siwa there's a treasure chest guarded by lvl 20 guard and I was level 7, and I can't stealth kill them, so I download a trainer, turn on 1-hit kill and say "fuck you ubisoft" everytime I kill a guard. There are numerous thing that pissed me off too, like instant detection, fucking slow motion, essential skills locked behind levelling system,... You even have to unlock a skill to be able to switch gear on the fly. But yeah level design is really good.
@nikolabankov8187
3 жыл бұрын
You're Eastern-European? So glad one of my favourite KZitemrs is a fellow Slav! I'm Bulgarian-Russian, so I want to ask you, how would you like an AC set in Revolutionary Bulgaria (ca. 1870-1880) (against the Ottomans and on the side of the Russians) meeting revolutionaries like Vasil Levski and Hristo Botev, as well as the Russian Generals leading the fronts?
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Dude, I have been hoping for an AC game with Vasil Levski for YEARS. He probably wouldn't be a protagonist, but act as an Ally or Mentor figure to our player-character, since Ubi usually likes using original characters for protags and historical figures as supporting cast. Especially because if you read our folklore and legends about him, he was basically using social stealth, he was said to be able to blend right in enemy territory and disappear suddenly. That, and, of course, his "Luvski Skok," which just sounds like prime real-estate for flexing his parkour skills, maybe even a Leap of Faith misinterpreted. It would be so, so sick.
@nikolabankov8187
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Ah, words of wisdom… You're impressively familiar with Levski, what is your background, if I may ask? :)
@icarusgaming6269
3 жыл бұрын
I really like this idea. I've been missing the opportunities for gunplay in the ancient settings lately, and this part of the world is criminally underused. Assassin's Creed used to be so good for crash coursing on obscure history, but the really popular settings that everyone knows about already just don't do that for me. This is literally a perfect suggestion.
@sweatyalbama8663
3 жыл бұрын
i don't think ac odyssey stealth was that bad it was very similar to origins but not as good so i would put it in B tier
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I can understand that decision, yup. Have you played it recently? It might surprise you how updates have changed it.
@sweatyalbama8663
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue yes I got it a few weeks ago. I didn't know that updates played a huge part
@reylin.x
3 жыл бұрын
Assassin's creed doesn't feel like Assassin's creed anymore.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah. :[
@endless7296
3 жыл бұрын
Ngl sometimes when I'm watching leo I rlly like his voice its so calming and chilling
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@officialLacke
3 жыл бұрын
I was with you aaaaaall the way to the end. But only til the end. I really love Valhalla’s stealth system and i love you Leo I really do but I just don’t agree with you. Though brotherhood and unity are both sooo fun man I really love watching your videos
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
If you don't agree with me, that means you don't experience the same bugs most players do. I'm happy for you! Let's pray Ubi doesn't patch the game in a way that breaks it for _you_ too xD
@jde7052
3 жыл бұрын
I agree to a degree on just about everything except only disagree in Valhalla, on hard it’s still usable, sometimes it’s a bit janky like overhead climbing thing stealth is unreliable. The powder and being able to take down things over too put it a little higher. I put it above Odyssey for me because on hard stealth was a go through for majority of missions to me because I normally did hardest areas first where 90 levels above me was easy to kill with timing that little mini thing. I think Origins is better. For me Valhalla is more Usable rank but definitely seems to prefer combat play styles.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I'm shocked you've been able to clear even a single area in 'pure' stealth in Valhalla. Probably you don't have the same bugs and inconsistencies many other players are suffering from, which would make you very lucky. If they were present in your game, you would notice it _instantly_ because it'd be unbearable. What has your experience been, so far?
@jde7052
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue oh no I haven’t been possibly able to go through pure stealth. Origins was the one I can do pure Stealth. Valhalla it was hard stay hidden because they detect way too fast, and sometimes my up high sneaking will be buggy and they’ll detect me instantly on rooftops even if it’s rare. I just think it’s a higher level than Odyssey because it’s easier to do stealth in my opinion because you can always kill guards even when they’re 90 levels above like how I did my mission order. Detection is awful I just had to run away and losing guards is extremely easy to continue with stealth was the only way I was able to do those missions so definitely not pure stealth, and definitely thought the game was more geared to combat. I just think it’s better than Odyssey is my opinion, and more towards AC 3 level with the options and my personal experience with stealth in both games.
@Zero-ELEC
3 жыл бұрын
The closest thing to a smoke bomb in _Valhalla_ is that one predator bow that makes a sleep cloud on headshot. And even that's kinda iffy because of the range of the cloud is miniscule.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah! Especially since, as Assassiiinuss recently revealed, Sleep Clouds now have a chance to just, not work anymore. It's awful.
@TheZacef
3 жыл бұрын
Would love to see some pacifist black flag missions! Love the stealth from that game, esp since I started it right after 100% on ac3.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I have some old videos of that from way back in the day, if I play it again sometime I'll make some more.
@rafaela00002
3 жыл бұрын
sad to hear that valhalla's stealth is so bad :( but on the other hand i'm really excited now to play chronicles china, just the setting looks so cool but it also has good stealth??? 👀
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
There is always a chance that it gets patched later! That's part of the reason I'm trying to bring attention to it, because it makes it more likely it gets picked up and addressed by the team.
@rafaela00002
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue yeah, i hope they see how people feel about it and patch it
@bluerose5071
3 жыл бұрын
To be completely honest, I didn't expect Valhalla to end up as low as it did, but then again, I've not touched the game since I completed it a few weeks after launch. I didn't particularly love my time with it, and I remember getting really annoyed around the halfway point with how sterile the world felt to explore. Almost like a Witcher 3 lack of depth in general exploration with a half-assed stealth mechanic. But I thought this was due to me being a grumpy oldhead about the series. Sorry the game hasn't been able to keep your attention outside of the first run through the story, Leo. I lurked in stream for a bit and read the community posts about you enjoying the game, and in a way it allowed me to push through in my own playthrough. Hopefully Ubisoft doesn't completely cock up Massive's Star Wars project with their tendency to wash games of their charm and fun.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I always try to take each game on its own merits, even as some level of comparison to what came before is inevitable. And, yes, even when looked at standing on its own, Valhalla does so many things as a videogame that bother me. I'm glad you actually managed to finish it close to release, that's probably when it was at its best in terms of the freedom it gave you to just play it how you want. It still wasn't incredible, but it hadn't yet nerfed or removed all the useful stuff that currently no longer (or barely) exists.
@anthonyapuzzo811
3 жыл бұрын
You had firecracker darts in rogue, basically the cherry bombs
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
True! They released the same year, so I neglected to mention.
@simonnagy1
3 жыл бұрын
My favorite is Unity, BlackFlag and Rogue, but sadly my laptops CPU isn't enough good to play unity without stutters😥
@RogueDEV96
3 жыл бұрын
I also had the same problem. Save up for a PS4. Its what I did.
@simonnagy1
3 жыл бұрын
@@RogueDEV96 meh, I dont wanna get a console yet, but u know whats the funny thing?
@simonnagy1
3 жыл бұрын
@@RogueDEV96 I bought this laptop cuz of dedicated gpu (R540X), but cuz it overheats my integrated gpu (Vega 8) performs better cuz it stays around 60-70°C😂
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Those are good choices. :D
@simonnagy1
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue Not the bests but im a casual gamer :D
@AcxD93
3 жыл бұрын
I agree with most of what you said and how you ranked the games in terms of stealth. Haven't played Valhalla and the Chronicle games though, seems like I need to play Chronicles China someday. So can't really agree with you on that because I have no opinion on these games. The only thing I would personally rank differently, is Unity. I'd put it in like A or maybe B because it's a little bit too clunky for me to put it in S, but I can also understand that you are quite forgiving. I didn't play Unity nearly as much as you and my understanding of the stealth in Unity is probably not as deep as yours, so that could also be a factor. Nevertheless, great video and you are giving very good inputs.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Unity's clunk would put it in A or B, a year ago. Valhalla is just _SO_ bad that it elevates Unity by comparison.
@theassasinofgamess8901
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting tier list. I will watch the full video, as I played all games besides chronicles and from Origins to Valhalla and never played the dlcs to Ac and Ac BF. I agree with you Leo.
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I hope you find it informative and entertaining. :)
@odd-eyes6363
11 ай бұрын
Revelations was the first game ever in which I actually enjoyed and actively engaged with stealth gameplay because of the bomb customization. I was barely 12 years old when I played it but it felt so good being able to complete objectives without activating alarms and feeling like an evil genius using my bombs in creative ways
@LeoKRogue
11 ай бұрын
Really glad you had that experience. It's very special.
@Scuttlerofwhimsey
3 жыл бұрын
"The Cherry bombs were a ranged distraction that the series never had before. Well besides revelations." *Cries in firecracker dart.*
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
Rogue came out the same year, and I forgot, okay?! >_
@Scuttlerofwhimsey
3 жыл бұрын
@@LeoKRogue *also cries in freedom cry firework* *Screams in picking up corpse and throwing it to lure guards*
@darksouls7939
3 жыл бұрын
Hey AC 3 stealth also belongs to A
@LeoKRogue
3 жыл бұрын
I clearly gave my reasons for why I think the way I do! :D If you love it, that makes me really happy, make your own Tier List, KZitem is free.
@ivargaming2674
3 жыл бұрын
The fact that you put Valhalla over odyssey 💀💀💀💀💀oh no man that’s wrong in so many fucking ways and it’s just realistic in Valhalla 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
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