Meaning the most popular, best selling miniature game ever.
@blakearius
15 күн бұрын
@@garylane6227 Meaning it's shallow because it appeals to the widest audience possible. Also Monopoly can kiss my ass.. A stolen idea that celebrates capitalism instead of highlighting the how broken the shitshow of the rental market is like it was meant to. -I guess there is the irony in how much GW has stolen from existing properties too.
@daerovius7535
14 күн бұрын
GW hasn't made a good version of their games for more than 20 years... They suck
@664chrisman
14 күн бұрын
Ha Ha I call GW the Walmart of tabletop gaming.
@blakearius
14 күн бұрын
Why the hell does youtube delete my innocuous comment and then give me reply updates. Hate this platform these days!
@iantmurdock
23 күн бұрын
Ranking chess. Played it once, lost and didn’t enjoy it. Movement rules not intuitive. Too many things to remember. No strategy as both armies exactly the same. Miniature figures not well-sculpted, knights are just horse heads. Z tier. Just not a good game. Obviously fanboys will disagree but just popular due to nostalgia as I heard it’s been around a while. Can’t understand why so many people play it. Must be simple entertainment for the masses.
@alexc8209
20 күн бұрын
Checkers. (Drafts for us Brits). Terrible figures, restricted battlefield, bizarre movement rules and uninspired colour schemes. Humanity can do better.
@TabletopTurtle
18 күн бұрын
Hopefully, I can earn my GM status in Warhammer someday!
@iantmurdock
18 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle well, the fact the Golden Demon, Warhammer's biggest, longest-running competition, is for painting rather than playing probably says something. One day they might rival the real masters in selling overpriced plastic: the Lego company. $460 for Barad-Dur and they didn't even bother to write ANY rules. Just adding up the cost of a small Star Wars Lego rebel force makes my calculator cry.
@garylane6227
18 күн бұрын
You described Tabletop Turtle reviews perfectly 🤣Kudos.
@maxmagnus377
9 күн бұрын
@@garylane6227 Yeah, chess will never last. It needs a battle Royale mode...
@biostem
23 күн бұрын
One of the designers of Malifaux 2nd here. So fun to hear that you love it so much.
@TabletopTurtle
23 күн бұрын
Nice! Loved second edition, my man! Malifaux has so many unique and creative mechanics behind it that even if a person doesn't like it, they have to acknowledge that!
@planetsmashergames
16 күн бұрын
@biostem - you guys killed it with second edition! We talk about it all the time on our 'Rule of Carnage' miniatures game design podcast, because as a game designer I'm still learning things from your game a decade later. Thank you!
@VelcroSnake93
19 күн бұрын
I do actually love Blood Bowl, but I completely understand why people don't like it. I like it because it's not balanced, and it's actually more about risk mitigation than anything else. And building your team over time is a BIG part of the game.
@TabletopTurtle
15 күн бұрын
That's fair and I get that. I just wished the silliness was somehow more intertwined with the mechanics beyond just a roll and a chart.
@christracey5813
26 күн бұрын
As someone who plays both BattleTech and Blood Bowl, I find it ironic that you criticize randomness and checking tables every 5 minutes in blood bowl and give it a D, but you give BattleTech (a literal game of tables within tables) an A rating. They're both good games, but it's an odd inconsistency when there is a hell of a lot more randomness in what happens to a mech in combat compared to a Blood Bowl player during a game
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
Nostalgia, esthetics, and miniatures.
@Haddedam
18 күн бұрын
Battletech tables are rather easy and modular rules mean you can ignore most of them. After playing bunch of hex and counter wargames, BT tables are pretty elegant. And yes, I still wish there was a ruleset between alpha strike and the game whose abbreviation is aptly CBT.
@supachigga
12 күн бұрын
Yeah, I noticed that too. They both deserve a D for gameplay IMO
@TheRealRedAce
7 күн бұрын
That's because Battle Tech is an A and Blood bowl is a D.
@RattlerNxt
29 күн бұрын
Infinity is an amazing game. Even with the dense rules, it takes me 10 min to demo 80% of them because it’s so intuitive.
@TabletopTurtle
28 күн бұрын
It really is intuitive surprisingly which is so helpful in remembering the rules if you go awhile without playing
@Maladjester
18 күн бұрын
I have been interested to try Infinity. Sadly I live in the boonies and what passes for my local gaming scene is heavily invested, like took-out-a-second-mortgage-I-have-a-problem-someone-help-me heavily invested in 40k.
@RattlerNxt
14 күн бұрын
@@Maladjester that’s rough. I get it.
@garylane6227
14 күн бұрын
Infinity is so great people get in to it, play for six months, then completely lose interest.
@RattlerNxt
10 күн бұрын
@@garylane6227 you could say the same for any game for any number of reasons.
@TheGreySpectrum
4 күн бұрын
Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40,000, Necromunda, and Mordheim were ultimately born of RPGs. That's what Rick Priestley was usually getting himself into prior to working at GW (which started really early on in his life). Priestley, the man that more or less made these games (and the GW LotR game, and Bolt Action), has always been more interested in simulation and creating stories than really much of anything else. That's why people like myself like those games as much as we do. They're 'Your Dudes' games, not wannabee competitive video games on a table. Also, GW never stopped supporting MESBG. I really don't understand why you said as much. Just because the releases are slow doesn't mean it has been 'abandoned', and considering GW's track record, you count your blessings when GW ignores you in favor of fucking up some other game (like 40k or that ungodly heap that is AoS). You may already be aware, but we are (unfortunately) about to get a new edition of MESBG, right after a final release pertaining to Angmar and its war with Arnor, along with a whole host of new miniatures.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
They for sure have that role playing foundational feel to them. I think my issue always comes from the games always feeling a little dated when I visit them, since I didn't start with GW games. And GW games always felt like is pushing product on me rather than an experience. Happy to hear Middle Earth isn't abandoned. It just seemed like it and that's what my friends at the shop were saying.
@TheGreySpectrum
3 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle I legitimately do not understand the mindset behind the 'dated' thing. You're not the first person I've heard it from, so it's not the first time I've thought on it before. Time has no baring on the quality of a game, otherwise everyone would be going on about how amazing modern World of Warcraft or Call of Duty are, so it always seems to me that it's just about certain characteristics that are in vogue either now or when a person got into wargaming. To me, we're discussing very different kinds of games, although they are all under an unfortunately broad umbrella known as 'wargames'. Ironically, I feel the opposite way about older GW games or editions of games as what you said of Mordheim; I feel like they don't overstay their welcome. Fundamentally they're simple and straightforward, and on top of that they've built a lot of the simulation. For Mordheim in particular, Tuomas Pirinen, who was the primary rules writer behind Mordheim with Priestley being the secondary that I believe provided the basic structure, has himself stated that Mordheim is not a 'balanced' game. That's why skaven with a shit ton of slings are so broken, and why two hand weapons (1h x 2 that is) are, in the core game, pretty much the objective best choices. Also you wouldn't take armor at all, or shields, so on and so forth. The game was never meant to be played like that, though. Warhammer Fantasy and Mordheim have such enduring legacies due in no small part to their sandbox nature. 40k's 3rd edition was released in 1998 (iirc), Mordheim was 1999, and Fantasy 6th edition was 2000. In the early 2000's, we got a lot alternative rules and encouragement in White Dwarf to come up with our own units. To convert, and just make shit up. Pirinen himself has, I believe, commented that the thing that he hated the most was how players were so reluctant to change rules as they saw fit. Rattling on a bit, sorry about that. GW are absolute scum, though, you're dead-on with that assessment in the 40k section. These days they tend to ruin everything the touch, their games are made to sell models, rather than selling models for their games (Priestley himself cited the company's escalating greed as his primary reason for leaving). People that insist the games they sell right now are the best ever are frankly coping because they've sunk too much money into the games. A lot of GW simps these days (pardon the expression) but back in the late 00's, early 10's, everyone loved Warhammer but hated GW. MESBG; in the US you tend not to see it a lot, but there is a thriving community in the UK and I think Australia and NZ. It's a bit regional, but they still sell most of the miniatures. I think in the US we just have the problem of "If it doesn't get weekly updates I'm not playing it" worse than most places. Frankly, if you want to get things going locally, you sorta just have to start pushing it. After I got a local 40k scene going again last year, about six months ago I finally got Mordheim started; only two of us have ever played it before. Fantasy and MESBG are the next games on my list.
@jaredbrummett6047
Ай бұрын
The Heroscape slander is diabolical
@daniel-lee888
Ай бұрын
Ha - yes I love Heroscape, it's provided hours of fun for me and friends and easy to get new players up and running. Prepainted minis (in the original sets) means they are table ready immediately. I'll never sell my sets!
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
haha man I swear I'm not being an asshole, I genuinely wanted to like that game but every single time I kept asking myself "is this it!?" after every play. Then I had to deconstruct the damn board!
@CarbonBallas
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle haha!! So true. Even though I'm an avid heroscape fan. Lol
@zackanderson9453
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtleI’m not sure where you live, but come out to an event. Best part of then game is army building. Also, why take down the map? Do you take down your 4x6 each time?
@ClayHales
3 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Let me guess. You solo played?
@michaelambrose1
27 күн бұрын
The 'new' Kill Team is completely different. The old Kill Team you know felt like it had clunky rules that tried to be a little original, but still just felt like a slow paced 40k lite. The new KT is a dream to play. As a Malifaux player, it's tough to choose which I prefer.. it's that good.
@amsfountain8792
27 күн бұрын
How does Warcry commpare to Kill team? I am on the fence wich one to buy.
@11AleZZ
27 күн бұрын
I prefer KT 2018, the rules were not good but the personalisation was great, in the new KT personalisation it's very limited, that for a skirmish game it's a killer, also the balance like all GW games is a problem, some faction are trash and other are OP
@ruas4721
26 күн бұрын
Old kill team was much more fun, even with its problems. The new killteam lost so many cool things about warband creation and also some rules are very weird. The balancing is in both versions a nightmare.
@ruas4721
26 күн бұрын
@@amsfountain8792 Warcry is a terrible game, dont know how it got such a good ranking in this guys tier list. Kill team is way better, but there are much better skirmish games than both of them, they are low tier games with high prices and bad rules.
@dratesdragetes777
25 күн бұрын
@@amsfountain8792 warcry is fun, the only issue I had with it was the token managment. I personally just did not care for killteam at all when I tried playing 5 games of it earlier this year however, its a better game than 40k tenth edition, but it still has some questionable game design.
@colinmack8655
24 күн бұрын
Kings of War is the game I wish fantasy had been. So you are wrong it’s an a.
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
What fantasy element is Kings of War doing differently from every other IP?
@colinmack8655
23 күн бұрын
@TabletopTurtle Nightstalkers for one. What about the update to the twilight kin? Have you read any of the novels? Plus the rules are the best smooth fast we'll written and balanced,
@TheRealCalPerr
2 күн бұрын
He did start off that section by saying he doesn't like rank and flank to be fair. It's an honest opinion. Also, panethor is as generic fantasy as you can get. Even though it has a few unique factions the other 23 are as generic as possible.
@VictoriaWargaming
21 күн бұрын
Hi There, Not sure how long ago you played KoW, but i think you ran into the biggest 'problem' of KoW - It's a wargame with Fantasy flavor, not a Fantasy game with wargame flavor. Chess is bland, but it's well balanced and fair, stable and about the player, not the list you brought to the table. KoW is like that. You need to play it quite a lot before what it brings to the table becomes apparent - 2 games? Nowhere near enough to even scratch the surface - especially if you're not making your own list to create your own toolkit to go with strategies you come up with. In KoW the gameplay comes from you using your army as a toolkit to win battles, using the terrain for advantage and playing to objectives. There are no crutches or special rules or 'easy' ways of winning games. It's not Herohammer/Magichammer/Monsterhammer and for some people they're after the Fantastic Fantasy, not the Wargame. If you want a wargame, like.. a proper wargame.. with Fantasy flavor I think KoW is the best out there. Our channel did an intro video to KoW which included a game being played so is quite long - kzitem.info/news/bejne/u6BuqIyrnZFooGU Cheers!
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
Only going to revisit one rank and flank game and it will be either Conquest or KoW.
@johnwilson7207
23 күн бұрын
I like Space Station Zero. Agnostic minis, build a team, go explore as co-op teams or skirmish on the main deck. The game encourages a diverse skill set rather than just a smash & bash through the scenarios, works well with odd number of players too so nobody gets left out.
@thesurlyhippie9397
14 күн бұрын
It's damn tough, though.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
I've never heard of that! I'll have a look. Big points for cooperative!
@SuperDuperHappyTime
24 күн бұрын
“Infinity is a game that I’d never recommend to anybody.” This is the only reason I don’t put Infinity as S Tier.
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
Likely should have clarified that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who isn't deep in the hobby space and have been playing games for a long time . . . so certainly none of my friends. Still best game on the market today.
@Direwoof
9 күн бұрын
I'd recommend it to super nerdy autistic strategy nerds who literally read sun tzu the art of war and legend of the five rings XD I love it but I never win a game.
@Dead_Fish0
10 күн бұрын
As a 40k fan I do totally agree with you about 40k fans🤣 One thing to add in the next section, Batman, you mentioned how you were upset they changed the rules to make it boring - I think that's what 40k fans are often complaining about, and how frequent they change 😤
@TabletopTurtle
10 күн бұрын
Then they are my brothers!
@ScooterinAB
6 күн бұрын
To be fair, the gameplay of 40k is shit. It's not so much the fans as it is the company no longer making actual games.
@11AleZZ
27 күн бұрын
ASOIAF its a A to me, pretty easy to learn hard to master game, its also relatively cheap game, you only need a starter and 2-3 unit boxes and thats it, yeah some of the new factions are a bit redundant but if you use the 3-4 first factions, you have a ton of replay value
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
I do love how inexpensive it is. I've seen it on huge sale many times.
@mn01_
Ай бұрын
The entire point of this video is to stick Kill Team and 40K in C tier to farm rage😂
Ай бұрын
Seems like it 😛. I can see it with 40K as it sure ain't everyone's cup of tea and GW is GW but using the old version of Kill Team here feels kinda disingenuous as you cant even buy it anywhere at this point.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
I spent an hour talking about games and dozens of hours editing to piss off a few Warhammer people. You got me! lol I think with GW I sometimes feel like I'm being sold more of a product than a game. Maybe I'll try the new Kill Team . . . but probably not. I still have yet to see it offer anything new or interesting.
@mn01_
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle at least you can admit it 🙃 But yes, they are absolutely selling a family of products. GW is an IP led company and they’re sell Warhammer toilet paper if they thought somebody would buy it. It’s a good business model but doesn’t necessarily make good games
@DogseatDogs
Ай бұрын
@@mn01_ It makes TabletopTurtle seems less honest and objective. Also kind of hypocritical when he is trying to anger certain Warhammer people and criticizes GW like that.
@stylesheetra9411
Ай бұрын
40k doesnt even deserve C tier to be honest
@emilandersson6470
20 күн бұрын
Here's a point of view from someone with a completely different outlook. Might not be entirely relevant to the video topic but I felt like writing it up anyway. Me and my chums decided to go back and play the Warhammer of our childhoods in the 90s. We've pretty much jumped back 30 years to the schoolyard days of going over the same citadel catalogue every break between classes, arguing over which armies had the cooler stuff, except now we're actually collecting, painting and playing it too. Best move ever. I absolutely prefer getting off the train (so to speak) rather than ride along with the trends, weirder and crazier as they're getting. Games Workshop did their part by writing the rules back then, now the game is ours to perfect. As to the quality of the game(s) back then and where they would have ended up in your ranking... to be frank, I don't really care. They are exactly what I want them to be: good fun with a group of old friends and a huff of that powerful nostalgia, hooo boy!
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
Nostalgia berries are potent and wonderful and certainly not something I'd turn my nose up at.
@CaptinCrofty
Ай бұрын
Played my first game of infinity today! Was really fun very very crunchy can’t wait to get a Handel on it
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
That's awesome! Man, I have found the community in Infinity to be so damn good. I literally walked into a store one day and saw some guys playing it and knowing nothing about it I asked if I could observe, after like 15 minutes they stopped playing and just taught me the game and let me play. I walked out of that damn store with an entire army haha
@bjornsoderstrom378
21 күн бұрын
That’s the neat part. You won’t get a handle on it. Ever.
@eriklindqvist9923
Ай бұрын
X-Wing was just killed by Asmodee/AMG last month. They will support tournaments up until Adepticon next year, but production has stopped so no more products. Fans are already stepping up to keep it alive. The community is quite split since 2020 when AMG took over from FFG and changed the game a lot. It is about a 50-50 with players liking 2.0 and the new "2.5". The latest version from AMG has no official edition or core set, just PDF rules, which also made it confusing for new players and didn't help the community. Still really like the changes from 1.0 to 2.0 though, it balanced things after the power creep that happened the last years of 1.0, and it upgraded the old ships with mechanics that had been added during later waves.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
That's sad to hear but inevitable with a lot of these mini games owned by a more generalist company like CMON, Fantasy Flight, etc. Plus it's a licensed property, so you know that's running out eventually. Maybe I'll try to find some online deals for some X-Wing stuff before it's all gone.
@chrisblack8205
4 күн бұрын
2.5 is pretty excellent, though I never played 1.0 (the version you played). I don't give a shit about Star wars, but this got me gaming again as much as when I was playing magic.
@edwardlasso3092
Ай бұрын
Have you tried out "Battletech: Alpha Strike"? It is basically an alternate set of rules that simplifies the record sheets into playing-card-sized cards (less logistics), and also simplifies the movement rules (uses measured distances - no need for hexes for moving or for determining ranges). It seems to be a way to target the "hexless" game players into trying out a semi-"Battletech" system.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Ohhh that actually sounds better.
@ShadowAxon
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle I exclusively play Alpha Strike, I've only played classic once, but it never gave me a "War feel" because placing more than 2 mechs on the table made the battle last hours. But in alpha strike you can run multiple lances in the same length of time.
@BrandonL337
27 күн бұрын
My impression is that Alpha Strike is also much better for scaled-up battles as well, multiple lances, combined arms, with tank platoons, aircraft, etc.
@VictorSteiner
27 күн бұрын
Alpha Strike is so watered down that it basically has nothing to do with Battletech anymore besides the minis: there is a classic/Alpha Strike hybrid invented by Death frommAbove Wargaming called Battletech Override. Faster than classic but still with individual weapons and simplified armor. A VERY good mix!
@vectorstrike
27 күн бұрын
Alpha Strike is great!
@googlemademedoit806
Ай бұрын
Poor Star Wars Armada... didn't even make the list T_T
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
HAHA funny cause when I was just making the list of games I played I did notice the lack of Armada, because I think I always dismissed it as just X-Wing with some extra shit and a larger scale.
@clontroper5
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Star Wars Armada has some of my favorite mechanics ever! Specifically the defense tokens system is Amazing IMO adds much for strategic depth and decision making to acts of attacking and defending then simply rolling dice like most minatures games.
@ridingwarthogs3244
26 күн бұрын
@TabletopTurtle Having played both it's a completely different game to X-wing. Much more strategy and more need to plan ahead with how your ships are controlled
@AinarMiyata
23 күн бұрын
Yup, armada is a completely different beast. Armada is a much more thinky strategy game. It’s incredible if you have a taste for that kind of thing.
@alexandrepetean4612
9 күн бұрын
You should try Armada.
@christophearbus3523
28 күн бұрын
Space Hulk should be D Star Wars X-Wing should be max at B Battletech should be B at max or C Fallout should be at least B Kill Team V2 should be at least B A Song of Ice & Fire THAT LOW??? Should be S or A Another S Tier: Deadzone
@TabletopTurtle
27 күн бұрын
Disagree!
@christophearbus3523
27 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Of course, otherwise you would ranked them differently. We're not sensible to the same things. From a game design point of view ASOIAF is a gem and I don't know which version you tried to have the feeling every army or character is the same, because you can drastically change the gameplay even sometimes within a same faction.
@csonti3725
2 күн бұрын
Malifaux and Gaslands on S? I see a man of culture there.
@DavidLees3D
3 күн бұрын
An easy S tier for me that I can recommend is Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings. Gorgeous models, simple rules, very deep gameplay. It's easily my #1 game right now. Some honorable mentions are Alkemy, Rumbleslam, Dropfleet/Dropzone Commander, and Carnivale.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
What's the difference between Last Argument and First Blood?
@Aethon988
3 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Last Argument is Rank and Flank, First Blood is Skirmish. They both use the same minis. I can't believe you didn't include it. It is much bigger than some of the games you listed.
@oldman1111
23 күн бұрын
Malifaux in S Tier? Okay, I'll definitely watch. Edit: Mal AND Infinity S Tier? I like this. This is good.
@TabletopTurtle
23 күн бұрын
This man knows what's up!
@triplea657aaa
16 күн бұрын
40k players don't hate 40k. They hate the company that makes it because they charge $50 for a single bloody infantry character model. I got into 40k this year and 40k is amazing, but you really need to find an army you like and a 3D printer is a big help.
@TabletopTurtle
15 күн бұрын
I'm sending the GW Gestapo to your house right now to steal your printer! I do the same with MCP . . . don't tell Atomic Games!
@ScooterinAB
6 күн бұрын
And because they release errata for a $70 book before that book hits the shelf, then change the game just enough a few years later to keep the train going. The fact of the matter is that the game isn't stable. Entire editions have gone by between games I've played because I simply can't be bothered to bust apart all of my models so I can make them rules legal yet again.
@jimmierustler5607
5 күн бұрын
So play an old edition?
@energyfitness5116
11 күн бұрын
Bloodbowl is mechanically, about scoring with rolling dice the FEWEST times possible. Nuffle hates you and your team so he plays games with your luck. No Battletech Alpha Strike? BT AS drank a bit of Warhammer 40k's milkshake a bit. Bonus for Battletech: can be played very cheap.
@dominicparker6124
24 күн бұрын
Blitz bowl is an easy A tier. Approachable, instantly fun, great minis (gw bloodbowl models are great), doesn't have gross bloodbowl design from the 80s. It's short at 45 minutes or less, just a real class product. Shockingly deep for it's rules complexity.
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
The minis are pretty cool. No denying that fact.
@rjscorpion8892
27 күн бұрын
The reason 40k is better is the number of players. Around me, no one is playing these other games whereas you can always find a game. That alone is a huge factor.
@TabletopTurtle
27 күн бұрын
And that's totally fair. Can't play this stuff solo. I just manipulate friends to play what I want.
@S0nyb1ack
25 күн бұрын
I'm extremely lucky to have a relatively big (for our small country at least) local community who looooove miniature agnostic games and Conquest: Last argument of Kings (and there are a couple of people willing to play Malifaux with me as well) :D I've really bounced off warhammer hard, but I'm enjoying my time with Conquest a lot - though I do really like rank and flank games in general ;)
@SuperDuperHappyTime
24 күн бұрын
The trick, is to be the one who introduces the game.
@Haddedam
18 күн бұрын
My tiny country has almost entierly wh players but since the game is geniuinely rather bad even in their opinion and GW is terrible, every player has armies for like 4-5 different games. Bonus point: for the price of a SINGLE medium sized 40k army, you can get like 5-10 full playable miniature sets for other games. And as a bonus, statistically those games are going to be flat out better to play as well.
@garylane6227
14 күн бұрын
And do you think that it is played more because people prefer it? Logic would dictate that if all these other games were so much better people would be playing them. I think there are better games than 40k (and better editions of 40k as there are so many), but there is no miniature game that is more popular. That is just a fact.
@supasnake8138
12 күн бұрын
Malifaux is amazing but what hurts them is how difficult it is to build their models. Due to the scale it was a royal pain to put them together and turned off players in our area from trying it. But from a rule set and moment to monent fun factor, its near unbeatable.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
I glued an ear on a goblin and after that I realized no model building could ever challenge me again. Malifaux made me a god.
@TheMuffinBagare
2 күн бұрын
Warmachine is my absolute favourite wargame that I've played! So much deeper in terms of gameplay to me than warhammer ever was. Guild ball was kind of known as the mini-warmachine in the Warmachine/Hordes community. It got really popular within that same community and has some tactical similarities. (Though of course massively different in scale) To each their own.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
It did seem like there was a time when Warmachine was going to pass Warhammer. I think that's when GW was kinda doing nothing with the IP for a bit of time.
@mikefish1124
26 күн бұрын
I'm not exactly the kind of guy who demands that everyone like the same things i do, but i find your take on Warmachine to be...baffling. It's like everything you disliked about it was completely opposite of reality, to the point where you might as well have been talking about a different game. Wacky.
@TabletopTurtle
26 күн бұрын
This is definitely the most repeating comment. I might have to give it another shot, perhaps.
@mikefish1124
25 күн бұрын
@TabletopTurtle I don't know - you seem so psychologically dead set against it, I'm not sure a repeat would help you? Not saying you are some sort of close-minded person, but sometimes folks just have such a negative experience, that it taints all future interactions. So while the game is easily probably the best out of all you just listed, I'm not sure it's for you, man. Probably just keep playing what you currently like, you know?
@TabletopTurtle
25 күн бұрын
@@mikefish1124 Makes sense to me. I mean, shit, we all are starving for more free time and we only have so much to give to the things we enjoy.
@niceasmd9890
20 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtleI'm going to add in to the pro-warmachine crowd. The game is incredibly deep. The problem it has is that the learning curve can be quite steep, and player skill is a huge factor. We had to actively ensure that new players didn't play 'that guy' until they were comfortable with the rules or else they'd have a miserable experience
@jamespreston3414
16 күн бұрын
I completely agree with you about Malifaux. I utterly disagree with you on Infiniti. Malifaux has a great mission system too, that's one of my favorite parts, because you can complete schemes by actively sacrificing models, really throwing your opponents for a loop. The Infinity games I've seen and takes from the meta lists make me never want to touch it with a ten foot poll at my local stores.
@TabletopTurtle
15 күн бұрын
Yeah I love that you can focus entirely on the mission in Malifaux and end up surprising your opponent if they're not paying special attention.
@gstellar96
27 күн бұрын
Conquest by Parabellum is my personally favorite rank and flank game as they have large high quality minis with a very unique aesthetic for all the factions with interesting lore and gameplay that revolves around a deck of cards where you have to prepare the order you're activating your units in advance with a lot of mechanics that mess around with the deck as you're playing
@evanuphil
24 күн бұрын
Plus one for trying conquest. As a new gamer it was way more approachable than Warhammer, and the minis are awesome. Customer-friendly company and growing community.
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
That does sound interesting and it's nice they made their troops not carbon copied of one another. That makes for some boring paint nights.
@hav6301
3 күн бұрын
Great video, its amazing that you got around to learn the rules and get minis for almost 40 games. Two of my favourites skirmish wargames not showcased there are Carnevale by TTCombat and Punkapocalyptic by Bad Roll Games. Some other games that I like the range of minis but haven't played are: Rumbleslam, Dropfleet, The Drowned Earth, Wild West Exodus and Dystopian Wars.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
Oh lord I couldn't afford all those minis! I went to A LOT of game nights at stores and learned the rules that way to really jump into the community. I've always been dismissive of Carnevale because it was made by the terrain company, so I thought it just existed to push terrain. I'll have a look. I've actually played Rumbleslam! I should have included that! I didn't enjoy it. It felt a little too simple and not particularly interesting. But I played it I think when it first came out, so maybe it's different now.
@hav6301
3 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Still though its a huge accomplishment! Carnevale was in fact from Vesper On games, TTC later adquired the game and relaunched it with new sculpts and rules, and then created a specific "streets of venice" range for it since they are huge on mdf terrain. Rumbleslam looks pretty unique and fun to me but I dont see it as a main hardcore game.
@TylerProvick
Ай бұрын
Necromunda didn't require a gm for the campaign, btw. It wasn't balanced and had the same randomness of Mordheim, so it's still probably in the right spot of your tier list.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Okay I was misremembering. But I do remember not being overly impressed with the tactics and strategy available to me while playing.
@Dazzxp
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Necromunda C tier is criminal! people have been put to death for less!
@TheDyslexicDragon
20 күн бұрын
I really hated the Scavvy Plague Zombies spam. Necromunda was definitely not balanced.
@thesurlyhippie9397
14 күн бұрын
It's a narrative game, though... "balance": be damned. "Balance" and the quest to find it is what makes so many modern games so... bland.
@ubrot7995
Ай бұрын
Maybe you should not put games into these lists that you haven't played? Kill Team 2021/2nd Edition is a completely different game to 2018/1st Edition. Like so different there is very few things they have in common. Kill Team right now is not litte 40k like the previous edition was and only people who haven't played it still keep that wrong belief alive. I would even argue that current Kill Team is one of the best games GW puts out right behind Blood Bowl. Both games dominate my local GW Store with the amount of games played by regulars there, the only game that gets played slightly more is 40k and only because most of these guys have had their armies for years and still want to play them, all whilst complaining about the current edition rules a lot.
@anab0lic
Ай бұрын
@@ubrot7995 none of gws game are above c tier, this becomes very clear when you branch out and play better miniature games.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
I don't think it's unfair to put those games on the list, regardless of how extensive the rules edition changes are, especially when I explicitly state the version I played. I have not played the latest Kill Team but I have seen list of changes and I'll tell you this, I have not seen a single change that makes Kill Team stand out to me as a unique and interesting game that's doing something creative or pushing boundaries in any meaningful way. That's important to me.
@ubrot7995
Ай бұрын
@@anab0lic Factually wrong, you are hating on gw for the sake of hating. There is plenty of good other games, that doesn't mean all gw games are just c-tier.
@ubrot7995
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Reading a list of rules means very little, many games on your list don't read very interesting or unique in themself. Most of the time what gets people into a game and shows how interesting it is, is how it feels to play. You could have at least watched like one battle report to make up your mind about it. But you didn't, instead you spouted outdated infos and turned your list into an outdated tier list. This is like basing how high 40k/AOS/Bolt Action and many other games are on their first editions. It just means your list doesn't inform anyone because the info is already outdated.
@anab0lic
Ай бұрын
@@ubrot7995 I'm not 'hating for the sake of hating....' I actually started my miniature gaming journey with GW games and enjoyed them at the time. Then I branched out and tried many of the other games out there and saw just how lacking GW's offerings are in comparison I suggest you do the same. Their games bore me now, there isn't the level of turn to turn thinkiness and interesting problems to solve that other games provide. Which in turn creates a much deeper, richer, tactical and strategic experience to explore and provides more replayability without things getting repetitive and stale. GW's game design hasn't evolved much since i was a kid first playing their games in the 90's... that just doesn't cut it for me anymore.
@AlertedDonkey42
Ай бұрын
Love seeing Malifaux and Infinity getting the recognition they deserve for their awesome settings and rule sets. I do think a revisit to Bushido is warranted. It’s up there with Infinity and Malifaux in my opinion. For recommendations I’d suggest Dystopian Wars, Botwar, and Judgement: Eternal Champions. Dystopian wars is my favorite naval combat game. Botwar really brings that nostalgia for 80’s and 90’s cartoons. Judgement has hex-based gameplay and beautiful models made by Creature Caster. Thanks for the video!
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
I'll get back to Bushido eventually. I'd imagine the company is still supporting the game.
@thomgizziz
Ай бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle You should try warhammer underworlds, it is like warcry but in a quick small tabletop game.
@spartacusjsmith
5 күн бұрын
“I might shit on your box” best line of the stream Big love for infinity and ‘faux ❤️
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
That content is only available on my GW Critique Only Fans channel.
@TrowaVidel
Ай бұрын
Before i comment on anything specifics just need to say, Great video. it's always good to have a resource like this to gather different opinions of a game before jumping in. That being said, MAN I didn't think it'd hurt so much to see someone bounce off of Blood Bowl that hard. It's a game that brought me so many fun memories. Weird though that Guild ball jived with you for a lot of the reasons I enjoy about Blood bowl(The focus on scoring rather then just fighting, the humor etc)... But Obviously if the bones of a game don't work for you there's no reason to stick and keep playing. On the other side as someone who just stumbled into the Gaslands hole, Hard agree. Played with with roommates on our kitchen table and we had a great time and may even start up a in-house season play. so fun!
@TabletopTurtle
28 күн бұрын
Man, I wanted to like it so much. I really genuinely did! I was so psyched hearing about it and I was pumped to play a season but after playing I was just so damn disappointed and sad. For Gaslands I now have friends who have ZERO interest in modeling or painting who own their own hotwheels cars that they've glued random shit to haha
@GlimpG
25 күн бұрын
I understand the blood bowl hate, but I must insist anyone who wants to try it to actually try it. I know it sounds really stupid, plain and kind of boring, but it's actually a very tactical positioning game that has lots of wacky things that can happen on the very even field, it's very interesting and fun. Believe me, I wasn't interested in it at all but now I'm a true believer, and the community is amazing.
@TabletopTurtle
25 күн бұрын
Well I can agree about the community. All good guys from those I've interacted with. I think Guild Ball provided that sports wargame blend I was looking for but it would be cool to have a game that's a little more silly and off the wall. My issue is always those damn charts.
@odallyo5861
25 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle I agree that the Charts are random, i think this game is targeted more to a Strategy intensive audience. I absolutely love it. There are Charts and it is RNG but part of that strategy is risk management. Knowing where to zone your players or position them to minimize casualties. I feel that if you are finding the charts as a negative it may purely be due to Noobie Luck. With strategy the Charts are part of the strategy. For example, Getting block as a skill changes your probability on failing a block to a 1/6, whereas normally its a 1/3. Small things like that plus positioning is where the strategy comes in.
@pan2990
20 күн бұрын
@@odallyo5861 Also the asymmetry of the teams. If you want fast squishy guys, cool. If you want big tough slow guys, cool. If you want unreliable little guys with crazy tools, cool. There is so much variety but it all hangs together and remains enjoyable. It has remained largely unchanged for nearly 40 years for good reason. The best way into this game is not to play the 11 a side as it tends towards draws and a slower pace. Sevens is much more fun to start with. Nuffle is a capricious god.
@lyrisshade
7 күн бұрын
One more addition to the group that came to say you need to give kill team a revisit. The 3rd edition (2024) is about to come out and it’ll be very similar to 2nd (2021) but KT 2018 is basically a different game. The whole system is completely different. The mechanics of each team is so thematic and going from an elite (~6 models) to a horde (~12 models) makes for very different experiences and challenges. Roster system simplifies the list building. Obscurity and Los rules make shooting a tactical focus and new melee mechanics have a great back and forth style. The fact warcry and underworld are higher than kill team makes me feel you really haven’t seen what it has to offer.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
Someone will have to play with me and teach me the new rules or it will never happen lol
@kylemoore7746
28 күн бұрын
Thanks for putting this together. I appreciate the range of games you've played, not something too many people have experience in.
@TabletopTurtle
28 күн бұрын
Too much free time apparently 🤣
@igelkott255
Ай бұрын
You should try Deadzone. The new Halo game that's coming out soon has a similar game system. Fast, easy to learn, fun scifi skirmish game.
Ай бұрын
Deadzone is an awesome skirmish game!
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
I've never been a halo fan, but I'll watch a few playthroughs
@grutfrut5817
Ай бұрын
DZ is the best skirmish game I've played.
@zodiac3981
10 күн бұрын
While I disagree with you about kings of war, I can see why it's not everyone's cup of tea. I really like the strategy that it has and in my experience, is a fairly well balanced war game. It's also miniature agnostic so you can add some flair through 3d printing or using AOS minis.
@TabletopTurtle
9 күн бұрын
I used to hate mini agnostic games but then I got a 3D printer and now they are my favorite.
@worm1618
13 күн бұрын
If you're a fan of Moonstone, then you should give Relicblade a try. It has that same whimsical theme and is easy to teach without feeling samey-same. A lot of people call it their "fun skirmish game."
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
I've added it on my wishlist. Just need to find someone else to play with.
@Lucius292
21 күн бұрын
Where is deadzone and firefight, warpath? 😢
@pkups.79
8 күн бұрын
Indeed, Mantic is strongly underrepresented here. Personally I would add Dreadball, which is an order of magnitude better sports game than Blood Bowl.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
I'll have a look at that one.
@Niccolo711
5 күн бұрын
Well said. All Warhammer games are overrated save Warcry. Marvel Crisis Protocol is the only miniature game I play now. Characters are translated perfectly.
@martinpersson1412
Ай бұрын
Happy to see Malifaux at the top :) I have yet to find a wargame (or any game) that I think is better.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
There isn't. Stop searching. It's like I said, I might acknowledge Infinity (which I also love) as better game with WAY more depth . . . but man there is just something about Malifaux that provides way more joy, despite it also being a very strategic and dense game itself.
@HellsWolf666
19 күн бұрын
Infinity and Malifaux S tear. Thumbs up, comment and a share. You are a man of culture.
@TabletopTurtle
19 күн бұрын
Haha my anime watching brain went to something very different with "man of culture".
@PureBrawler
10 күн бұрын
Infinity was the worst TT gaming experience I ever had. Showed up for a demo game and had such displeasure 'learning' how to play properly I left early. MCP has no right being as good of a game as it is. So many hype moments and characters all feel so flavorful and unique. Warcaster Neo-Mechanika is my current S tier game that's probably never going to see a revival as it launched during the beginning of covid so was DOA.
@TabletopTurtle
10 күн бұрын
You just had some bad teachers. I'll show you the way. My biggest fear with MCP is that like all big IP franchise games, one day it will be abandoned.
@PureBrawler
9 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle idk, the fact that the concept of cheerleaders even existing in a game breaks any balance for me. Imagine if Hulk, Ultron 2, or Malekith (pre-nerf) could use every turn for themselves? Remove the token order activation system and maybe I'll give the game a chance. I still have a lot of infinity models and stand by they are probably the most beautifully detailed miniatures in the hobby, but they're now just collecting dust aside from the occasional OPR custom army match.
@brianring3425
7 күн бұрын
1. Kings of War 2. Warhammer Fantasy 3. 40k 4. Battletech 5. Warmahordes 6. Necromunda 7. Mordhiem 8. Warcry
@basition
24 күн бұрын
Rest in piece warzone the mutant chronicles, void, vor, and epic 40k
@alexc8209
20 күн бұрын
Ah yes Epic 40K. It was so good they quickly abandoned it. Typical GW move.
@saintseiyablade
3 күн бұрын
Great list of games. I too started as a board gamer and pivoted more into miniature wargaming. I would recommend to look into these 2 games next: Blood & Plunder by Firelock and Carnevale by TTCombat.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
More Carnevale mentions. I'll have to check out a cool playthrough and see what it's like.
@matt6387
18 күн бұрын
As a guy who went from board gaming to tabletop gaming as i aged i just found your channel great list i will stick around if you make more table top content. The beauty of table top games is the hobby and because of it anyone else into the hobby is so committed to the thing that you will always have games even if you dont have local friends who play. It is very cool how the communities around these things work. I would love to know what you think of aos.
@barrysawicki7833
21 күн бұрын
Warhammer in C tier is crazy
@Astronaut_Zero
20 күн бұрын
Agreed! Too high.
@alexandrepetean4612
9 күн бұрын
I missed Skytear on the list. I believe it deserves attention too, even though it is a skirmish style closer to Boardgame with Magic The Gatering and has been discontinued to make way for Onward (new version of Skytear more focused on simulating MOBA) It's a bit like Aristeia, but more complex
@TabletopTurtle
9 күн бұрын
I'll have a look. I like that it sounds more complex than Aristeia. Always good to have a few steps inbetween a hardcore mini game and a board game.
@Olivia-ev9hk
18 күн бұрын
I didn't see AoS on your list it is basically all the good stuff in 40K but way less annoting with charts and shooting across the the field over and over. Lots more engagement and tactical play.
@TabletopTurtle
18 күн бұрын
If only that new starter set wasn't 300 dollars, my word!
@Olivia-ev9hk
18 күн бұрын
@TabletopTurtle yea...GW is a bit bad at new player on boarding. You are far better off getting with some friends finding an army you like and buying the models you need while skipping the starter box unless you want Skaven
@jackbrownii
14 күн бұрын
Watching the tide go out in the background. 🤣
@TheWarpForge
Ай бұрын
Honestly completely disagree with BMG on the D-List. I feel where you're coming from on the edition overhaul, I know it irks me when people tell me 3E is better than 2E but that's because I don't see it as a competition on a games quality but more each edition is more apples and oranges. I have fond memories of my Freeze Crew in 2E and I also have good fun memories of playing Freeze is 3E. With that being said I don't see it as 3E completely removing the elements you liked but more changed the goal posts. I also liked the pre-game counter system but I found it more that it wasn't a board gamey mechanic but more a role-playing one, nor do I see it as taken away but more went purely into attack and defence. Where you need to role-play out the attack and defence dice. I also like the card/deck building system as I feel that each crew doesn't really play samey and plays to the machiavellian schemes of the hero's and Villains. Freeze turns the board into a winter Wonderland, Joker wishes to inflict pain and have the last laugh, Harley is about vandalising the board, Batman's about solving the clues, Bane is about modern Tac Ops and domination, Court is about assassinations, Scarecrows about spreading the fear toxin and terrfying foes, etc. There's very little I see that makes BMG "bland" or "generic". The fault I find more isn't the game itself but more KM as a whole. Community's clique, KM take goodwill for granted, accessibility issues, their rep. The list could go on. It's a shame because I feel Batman is the best ruleset for itself out there but it's held back by KM being KM.
@TabletopTurtle
28 күн бұрын
Man I got banned on their official forums so fast and I was so polite too! The problem is I just really like that mechanic. It's what sold me.
@vectorstrike
27 күн бұрын
I like BMG a lot. On the other hand, Knight Models isn't the best company to manage a game with such big IP. But the game is pretty fun!
@claypooljones3825
11 күн бұрын
some INTERESTING takes here that's for sure; 'didn't play the game as intended so i didn't enjoy it....' yeaaaaaaah good review
@TabletopTurtle
10 күн бұрын
Whatever you need to tell yourself to stop the flow of tears from your favorite game getting a D. Ten bucks says I can smoke you in your favorite game, too! 😜😜
@andreytatarinovminiatures
Ай бұрын
Didn't expect to see my miniatures in this video. At 37:52 shows my Cult of Yurei force. I won fantasy unit category at Salute 2013 with them. Haven't painted anything in years. Got a bunch of hot wheels cars not too long ago, but didn't do any thing with them.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
You did a great job! You should get back at it!
@peerm2130
20 күн бұрын
I felt in love with Lasting Tales. It's more a mix of DnD, Dungeon Crawler and Tabletop.
@michalkonieczny3345
6 күн бұрын
I can tell you why Warmachine was once consider a rival to Warhammer - the game appealed to many players because, unlike GW, the creators put a lot of emphasis on competitive play. The rules were constantly being streamlined / errata'd, the was no power creep, and power level of different factions and models was kept in check by rebalancing. For a competitive player, it was a very refreshing experience when you had a broad selection of viable units within each faction, compared to Warhammer where the latest broken stuff reigned supreme. It also had a quite well-written lore. At least that was the case 10 years ago when I last played it. In any case, you saying the game is crap after playing 3 games and offering no real reason for that is incredibly low-effort. I'd understand putting it in the middle if it didn't connect with you, but ranking it alongside blood bowl is straight up insulting.
@TabletopTurtle
6 күн бұрын
Hopefully, Watmachines' feelings aren't hurt too much by how much I think the game stinks. If you see him, please apologize to him on my behalf. I know he meant well and gave his best effort.
@ScooterinAB
6 күн бұрын
All GW games are is competitive play. I think what you're trying to say is that it was more strategic. 40k and Warhammer were long ago turned into baby's first wargame, and they tend to have about as much nuance as a hurled brick. People loved Warmachine because you didn't need thousands of models and because there was actual strategy. And then Privateer Press decided to burn the game to the ground for some reason.
@MocnySquall
29 күн бұрын
The new kill team is absolutly amazing game. It has nothing to do with the old kill team. I honestly cant beleave that gw was able to make a good game like that.
@TabletopTurtle
28 күн бұрын
I'll have a look some day, promise.
@vicioushellsing
Ай бұрын
I wondered why youtube recommended this video to me. Its because Infinity IS the best game ever made. N4 did a good job "de nesting" the rules so rules do a much better job standing on their own instead of needing to know a rule to know a second rule. Its much smoother and definitely the best edition of the game so far.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Reading N4 was a hell of a lot more enjoyable than previous versions. I say this as a technical writer myself, I was pretty impressed with how that book is organized and how easy the rules were to understand after a single read. I'm embarrassed to say I have not even touched any of the expansion books, so I don't even know what new cool mechanics there are out there right now!
@jonathanpickles2946
Ай бұрын
I should give it a look. I always wanted to love Infinity from playing when the rules were on a sheet in the minis boxes. The core system seemed so promising but it always frustrated me that the end result was painful. The rules were always more and more complex when everything they added seemed to add its own special rule. I do not like the mish mash of nations background which does not help!
@dominicparker6124
25 күн бұрын
Infinity is an amazing game, but it's so hard to play. And play well. So rules dense, not massively approachable. Very complex. I dropped out of it after years of playing it at tournaments because it just took so much energy to play for where I'm at now. It's not a casual game
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
@@dominicparker6124 Not in the slightest. I never recommend Infinity to people in the hobby unless they've been playing games for a long time and are okay with diving deep into a single game.
@jonathanpickles2946
24 күн бұрын
@@dominicparker6124 That's how I feel about Warmachine, I never quite got there with Infinity but appreciate why someone might love it
@Justin-ku6oz
Ай бұрын
My favorite miniature game is Relicblade love everything about it. Also check out Rangers of Shadowdeep if you like cooperative!
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Rangers of the Shadowdeep is on my wishlist. I'll have a look at Relicblade.
@TheRealRedAce
7 күн бұрын
I couldn't disagree more about Mage Knight.
@cerohero1
22 күн бұрын
Moonstone is easily my favorite minis game now. It's such a good balance of lighter rules while still having a lot of unique feel to each character. Plus the low model count is super nice and really offsets the higher cost per model
@TabletopTurtle
13 күн бұрын
It really is! I love painting them because you can make them so bright and fun
@jeronimo486
20 күн бұрын
I'm trying to be constructive here: The moment you put Kings of War in the lowest tier makes the concept of the tier list (which I hate overall to begin with) completely useless. Kings of War is one of the best rank & file army scale games out there. You don't like it for personal reasons? Fine. You want this to be hypersubjective? Fine. I'm curious on your thoughts on different tabletop games. But why rank the games in this manner if it has virtually no value for me as a viewer when your second pick already shows me that the final ranking will be a mess with no purpose? Just talk about games when you just want to talk about games, that's fun. This tier list system only gives the false impression of some kind of objectivity that you obviously don't bring, apparently not even try to bring. Sorry to be negative, but this bothers me. I hope you don't see this comment as an personal attack but an honest attempt to give you constructive critizism. Us gamers need to stick together. I'll keep listening to your thoughts.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
I don't see it as an attack. We all have things we like and things we don't like. Nobody's list is an objective evaluation of games.
@marccaron6008
2 күн бұрын
Great list and fair assessment. I enjoyed Battlestar Galactica Starship Battles far more than X-Wing. The starter has a very generous offer. Grab a copy if you can.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
Would that even be in print anymore? I know the Battlestar board game is out of print due to IP issues.
@marccaron6008
Күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle Correct out of print. FB Marketplace is your friend.
@OliverOusley
21 күн бұрын
Killteam 2 is a little more like warcry rather than 40k. I'd thoroughly recommend giving it a go. I like playing it when I'm mentally fatigued from Infinity
@robertthurman9866
24 күн бұрын
I love videos like this. Short, to the point, good stuff, bad stuff and a rating. If my fave game get's trashed I don't mind. In fact often I can agree with why it was disliked. And I learn about new games. Aristeia! and Moonstone both sound good. Agnostic miniature rules always welcome. Subscribed.
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
Aristeia isn't supported any longer but you can usually find the stuff fairly cheap and it's a good stand alone game that's easy to bust out for none mini gamers. Moonstone is pricey, fair warning, but thankfully you don't need a lot of minis to play.
@roycepodeszwa6857
24 күн бұрын
You should try out Star Wars: Armada. It was created by FF same as X-wing and, unlike X-wing, did not get totally reworked by AMG. Has the unique movement style to it and tactical fleet combat that's a blast to play. I like to think of it as chess in space.
@TabletopTurtle
24 күн бұрын
It never took off like X-Wing did. I wonder why that is.
@tristandeleglise3924
7 күн бұрын
A little bit disappointed that you didn't include other scale miniature games like "dropzone commander" or "epic armaggedon".
@TabletopTurtle
7 күн бұрын
Then I have to make all new terrain!!!
@magnum696
17 күн бұрын
Really enjoyed your video and really appreciate the fact that your opinion comes from having actually played these games instead of others who just read descriptions about them. I have played most on your list. Gaslands was my gateway into the hobby. It is a great little game. Since then I tried a lot of systems and, like you, my favorites have been Inifinity, Malifaux and MCP. I also enjoy Star Wars Legion. It is unfortunate however, that my locals neither play Malifaux or Infinity. We have good groups for MCP and Legion. They are fun but nothing like the strategy involved with Malifuax with the fun secondary objectives or the fun reactive turns of Infinity. 40k is always popular. I gave that a shot this year but could not get over the non alternating activations. In general each game is fun in it's own way and it is fun to jump around time to time. Looking forward to a future video if you decided to update on additional games you try.
@TabletopTurtle
15 күн бұрын
It really sucks when the game you love requires people outside your friend group to enjoy because you're kinda at the mercy of whatever new game is in your local meta. And the alternating action thing always made me laugh because any GW product that has it, the feature gets advertised like it's some big innovation! 🤣
@TheRealRedAce
7 күн бұрын
In ANY field, "most popular" equals "best advertised", never "best product".
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
Well I'd imagine the two could collide once or twice and the best advertised is the best product . . . just not in GW's case! 😜
@w0197
20 күн бұрын
Thanks for the video! I love to see games other than Warhammer getting love. I would recommend One Page Rules, extremely simplified version of warhammer, very beer and pretzels. Also love games from Snarling Badger Games, specifically Space Station Zero and Deth Wizards.
@kapsssel
18 күн бұрын
Imo malifaux is a little bit bloated, too many tokens, too many triggers, and game takes way too long, now way it's S. Newer kill team is much better, and way better than warcry, I'd say A. X wing is discontinued, should get -2 tiers simply for that. I thought moonstone died as well, really wanted to try it
@TabletopTurtle
15 күн бұрын
Moonstone isn't dead! Go get a box! You'll have the most fun painting it out of every other mini game.
@Marco48375
27 күн бұрын
Played 40k once, reviews it. 40k has some great strength; endless replayability, with factions and dynamics objectives changing each encounter significantly, and no other sci-fi game looks anywhere near as spectacular on the battlefield
@TabletopTurtle
27 күн бұрын
You're acting like this was a 40 minute deep dive into Warhammer. I'm happy you enjoy it. But it's just not a good game but I'm happy for what it has done for the industry. Lots of people like Monopoly too and that's totally okay. I'm happy wargaming has its own Monopoly.
@Marco48375
27 күн бұрын
@TabletopTurtle just thought it lacked any highlight of the good stuff, which some of the other dislikes did get. Fun video though, I should give Infinity another chance.
@11AleZZ
27 күн бұрын
40k it's love/hate game, I like it but it's a mess of rules, with the constant changes, balances and a FAQs, you need a ton of time and patience to really enjoy it.
@ruas4721
26 күн бұрын
40k is repetitive, factions lost a lot of character in 10th edition, units are completly exchangeable because profiles have no reasonable logic anymore, mission play is always the same with random secondaries wich are bad design, modern designs are mostly boring especialy Marines. Combine this with dumb prices, bad bundles, balancing nightmares, lore destruction and a lot more and got one of the worst miniature games out there. GW players are like apple users, beside the fact that apple users actually get something that works for their money.
@mildlyderanged
25 күн бұрын
Yeah sorry 40k is a bad game and has been a bad game for a long time. The lore and the excellent models do a lot of heavy lifting, though GDubs has been doing it's absolute best to break the first part of that. It's too bloated, too many rules and conflicting systems. Any game where you have to spend half the game reading a library of books to figure out what unit can do what is a bad game.
@toxiccandy7888
Ай бұрын
New Kill team is much better, hated the first edition, second edition is much better. As far as x wing, 2 edition was amazing, adding force powers, new factions. Yes getting the conversation kits was annoying, but most people only needed 1 or 2. And waiting till they were on sale, I bought them very cheap some years ago. Unfortunately it's no longer going to be produced so there is that, and getting ships is going to get harder, and harder to find. But the community is sounding like it's going to try and carry it forward through 3d printing and rules adjustment.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Maybe I'll update my stuff and try again in X-Wing. I do like the idea of having a really approachable mini game for non mini gamers with a theme that a lot of people can relate to and appreciate. I'll have to find somewhere with some good scans on the cards so I can just print them out or find ways to replicate the components through printing.
@DJDadJoke
Ай бұрын
My one true love in miniatures games is Marvel Crisis Protocol. Such a thematic and fun game. I own almost all the models, and I've even painted some of them. xD A few of my buddies are into Malifaux, so I'm getting a demo game in next weekend. Looking forward to that because that game seems super fun. I've dabbled in Warcry, Monsterpocalypse, and Star Wars Shatterpoint, but none of those games have really taken off locally. I will say that the new edition of Kill Team is MUCH better than the 2018 one you mentioned in the video. I don't blame you for dropping that one, the whole game was very at odds with itself. It was like playing big 40k but awkwardly shoved into a skirmish mold that just didn't fit. The new edition is a completely different game made from the ground up to be its own thing. It has one of the best melee combat systems I've seen in a skirmish game where you alternate applying your successful roles as either hits or parries. There's also a very interesting system where you can set your models as either engaged so you can shoot/charge, or concealed so that they're harder to shoot at. My main complaints with Kill Team 2.0 are that it's overpriced (GW game), the line of sight rules are over complicated and unintuitive, and the rules are overly wordy (GW game). I would put it solidly in B-tier and it is by-far Games Workshop's best 40k game system.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Don't tell Atomic Mass Games but I only own the base set and a few expansions. I 3d printed and painted A TON of Marvel minis to play in the game. I'm a bad person. Hopefully you enjoy Malifaux. It's really tough when you first start. Yeah people keep praising the new Kill Team but I likely won't bother going back. I'm not the biggest GW fan so a game needs to be really damn good to get my cash when it's made by them.
@phillipbritton3836
24 күн бұрын
I fell into 40K. Just wanted to hang out with my friends more. Definitely fell into the plastic crack. Spending too much armies. I do have three different armies but I wised up and was doing eBay or some of them are 3D printed. But for me being my first tabletop game I really enjoyed it. It was definitely a learning curve but after two games I have figured it out and I constantly just think about what I can do different or what I can do new in the next game that I want to play. Only if I ever have with 40K is I don't have enough time to play lol
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
That's fair! I remember painting a few of these janky orcs from one of the earlier editions of Warhammer when all my friends thought we would actually play one day. Instead I think we chucked them at one another while riding bikes in the park . . .
@konstantinoskoutsoumpas8544
20 күн бұрын
Obviously, I don't agree with some rankings, but it is a pretty good video that covers a ton of games. I always wanted to play Malifaux, but never had a friend interested in it, so I never did. I fully agree on the rankings for Infinity and Aristeia. They are such good games and I have high hopes for Warcrow, the next game from Corvus Belli.
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
The number one enemy of all tabletop games: Requiring friends.
@davidfromkyushu6870
23 күн бұрын
I recommend Pulp Alley, a miniatures agnostic system that let you play out pulp adventures between 1-4 players with leagues of thematic characters. Its not a hard system to learn and is flexible.
@albertoguerreromartinez3867
25 күн бұрын
My top 3 games: Malifaux, Asoiaf, Warmachine. Another favourites to make a top 10: Infinity, Aristeia, Saga, Dropzone commander, Deadzone, Mesbg, Kill team.
@TabletopTurtle
15 күн бұрын
That's a solid variety of games in that list! Always good to get a little bit of everything!
@philhelm1318
27 күн бұрын
The only rating that "triggered" me was Blood Bowl. I've always thought that it was one of GW's best rulesets (it's essentially a risk mitigation game), and the fact that it is even competing against more modern rulesets probably says something about it.
@deankirkpatrick7658
26 күн бұрын
We only play the 7's version, faster play.
@TabletopTurtle
25 күн бұрын
Yeah I can see that. I'm just not sure what mechanics are there that can make it go toe to toe with contemporary games in regards to uniqueness.
@michaelschlossarczyk2459
25 күн бұрын
How much BB have you actually played? The beauty of the game is derived from easy to grasp but decisive rules that provide for a great depth of play. In contrast you rated games higher that suffer from bloated special rules and bolted in mechanics.
@TabletopTurtle
25 күн бұрын
@@michaelschlossarczyk2459 BB? Maybe four games total? Those rulesets are bloated to you because perhaps you fail to see their beauty and necessity to the play experience and the depth that they provide. Some people like a simple ruleset and that's okay. I prefer more depth and sometimes that depth comes at the cost of more rules. I rated those games higher because they're better games, in my opinion.
@terlshockley442
24 күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtleI'm sorry you didn't have a good experience trying Blood Bowl it is a brutal game that will not ask for forgiveness when it crushes your spirit and that sounds exactly like what happened. The beauty of the game is found at tournaments because of the development aspect of the individual players (minis) and during leagues because of the roleplaying elements.
@alexc8209
20 күн бұрын
I think the best figures rules are the ones you write for yourself. I have collected 1/72 minis for 30 years and slowly developed my own 'game' with its own rules set. I was inspired by practically every other game I ever played and a few of them are in this video but the game and the rules are my own creation. I would encourage everyone to do the same.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
But I don't want to write my own rules!
@alexc8209
Күн бұрын
@@TabletopTurtle fair enough.
@greatfrito
21 күн бұрын
I so rarely find someone whose tastes line up with mine this well! KT2.0 is in gact much, much better. Missing some aspects of customization, but just as a game itself its much more interesting and solid than 1.0.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
Hopefully I can recommend some games to you that get you invested so you can one day go bankrupt!
@damienc7303
18 күн бұрын
“Infinity is the best game ever made”, I agree with that. I only tried about ten miniature games and this is the only one where everything is almost perfect: fluff is insanely good, minis look great and the rules are incredibly good. I have a hard time staying focused on anything, but I never got bored ONCE with Infinity. I think people who played any tactical video game like xcom can get an easy grasp of the game mechanics, cause it really feels like it. I believe the action series to be released soon will bump up the popularity of the game. Also, I’m curious to see how you’d rank “warcrow”, the new Corvus Belli medfan skirmish game… Great video. Such efforts were made to try all these games. I’m impressed.
@TabletopTurtle
Күн бұрын
I'm keeping an eye on that game for sure and seeing all the videos Carlos releases on it. Thank you for the kind words.
@Original_Maverick
Ай бұрын
Dont know where you are, but it reminds me of home. Thanks! Never really played any miniature war games outside of some euro driven ones. Have done some chit/block wargames. I appreciate you bringing different interests within the hobby space to light. I think there is a ton of room to explore that people don't even know about.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
We were in BC at the time on one of the islands. There is certainly something for everyone in every niche hobby space, I think.
@paulmualdeave5063
21 күн бұрын
Infinity N5 comes out in October. We learned that at Gencon.
@TabletopTurtle
21 күн бұрын
Whoa! I didn't even know that! Time to hit up their KZitem channel and watch some Carlos!
@alexeybychenkov3659
29 күн бұрын
I think that 40k is more about the hobby part of collecting, assembling and painting. Because this is what holds players in GW's grip, rather than a gameplay itself. I have a very big community of 40k in my town, but i barely see people playing it. I am myself play this game roughly once a month or two although i have 2 whole armies 4000 points each. And those who play competitive 40k are very different persons to just hobbiests who collect and play time to time. But i have to concider that the game is very deep. It was way deeper for prior edition GW just had to cut off a good chunk of game rules and mechanics for the 10th just so the newcomers could get into the system. The lore is also what make most people love this game. You friend was very right about "the whole different army" thing because they are different and not in like some minor parts of the gameplay, but the whole experience.
@TabletopTurtle
27 күн бұрын
Yeah, I do love the hobby aspect of mini gaming more than anything. I like seeing what's coming out next or what's new on the shelves.
@storploin3860
26 күн бұрын
You sound like me about a year ago - Warhammer minis are great but the game not really being that big of a thing for me. Then I discovered OnePageRules, and ho boy did I start playing a lot of games. Try checking it out - the core rules are free and literally 1 page (front+back) long, there's a skirmish or mass scale version for both fantasy and scifi (they're mutually compatible though, funny enough). Worth trying out with a buddy and seeing if you find it more fun.
@ondrez5114
27 күн бұрын
Agree with Infinity. The gameplay feels so "alive" when the action unfolds on the table. Hiding behind the corner, sneaking my camouflaged guys, keeping my termo-camo guys invisible ready to strike..
@TabletopTurtle
27 күн бұрын
Whenever I play Ariadna and I have Van Zant, I always play Back in Black before I make his airborne reveal. My friend hates me.
@ultraego752
22 күн бұрын
I put shatterpoint at a d because I patiently waited for new legion announcements and shatterpoint drops with half the stuff I've wanted in legion lol. So d rank for salt
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
haha the salt tier list ranking placement is totally justified.
@blkjet117
Ай бұрын
You might want to look into the miniature skirmish game Burrows & Badgers. Blitz Bowl is everything you wanted in Blood Bowl, but streamlined, smaller, much quicker game.
@TabletopTurtle
Ай бұрын
Burrows & Badgers looks fun to paint!
@jcalvert6666
11 күн бұрын
It seems you like skirmish and cooperative gameplay, and you already have whole lot of infinity stuff. Maybe you should take a look at Zone Raiders? Its a miniature agnostic, very vertical and terrain heavy, and infinity minis and building fit pretty well to the setting (its about small scavengers communities of people living in endless ancient technological megastructure - if you ever heard about Tsutomu Nihei's BLAME! manga, its basically the same thing) . And there are both traditional cooperative options, and asymmetric competitive play where both sides could be going for completely different objectives - which on some occasions might not even be conflict with each other at all. Or one side could be belligerent with goals like kill or capture someone from other team, while the other player would be focused on, lets say, accessing some datapoints, collecting data and getting the hell out . Its a pretty interesting ruleset imo.
@TabletopTurtle
8 күн бұрын
I'll have a look. I've actually never heard of that. This hobby is FILLED with so many games and yet it's really only a couple of games that get all the press and sales.
@cokeess
4 күн бұрын
Kings of War is a S Tier OMG!
@TabletopTurtle
3 күн бұрын
You dirty liar!
@OGDamnnation
19 күн бұрын
Mordheim and frostgrave is kinda brother sister where the older brother mordheim gets the old used car that's reliable where as the little sister frostgrave gets the new car. The problem with bushido is if it doesn't have a player base in your area you're not going to be playing it as often. Warmachine/Horde used to be in the beginning a scrimmage game
@TabletopTurtle
10 күн бұрын
It's true. We are really just at the whim of whatever the current game meta is in our respective areas and that stinks.
@robryan5478
23 күн бұрын
Malifaux and Infinity at S Tier? This guy knows his stuff!
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