go fight the ukraine war youself. i dont support that money laundering operation
@RWBHere
Жыл бұрын
Heh! Nice one! So these should be called 'Darwin-Class Submersibles' from now onwards.
@JinKee
Жыл бұрын
Hold my gamepad.
@Redrum-707
Жыл бұрын
why not dude its called trial and error keep sending pods down there until they fix the bug
@mt_baldwin
Жыл бұрын
The way Rush describes that coating always bugged me. "Used by the military" yeah it's also used by us hillbilly country folk to coat the bed of pick up trucks but I guess "used by the military" sounds more impressive. Now I'm going to have a glass of this special liquid that Navy SEALS drink- otherwise known as water (it's hot outside, stay hydrated people).
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
It's Redneck approved!
@k53847
Жыл бұрын
Well, it is used on walls to reduce blast damage in some fashion. But be careful with the dihydrogen monoxide, I've heard it can be hazardous if you aren't careful.
@truthache8560
Жыл бұрын
@@k53847That dihydrogen monoxide is in everything!
@Sylvan_dB
Жыл бұрын
@@truthache8560 Everybody that consumes dihydrogen monoxide dies!
@cardboardboxification
Жыл бұрын
that coating probably kept it from imploding sooner keeping water out of the cracks , epoxy carbon just shatters like glass , 5" thick won't bend .
@Zodliness
Жыл бұрын
When OceanGate's CEO bought all that out of date carbon fibre, he must've thought *sub-standard* meant it was suitable for building deep dive subs.
@susanohnhaus611
Жыл бұрын
lol
@mysurfing3550
Жыл бұрын
I think youre right, now it makes sense why he used cf 🤔😂
@bullabuck7535
Жыл бұрын
😂😭
@skachor
Жыл бұрын
Seriously. Now I'm wondering whether the whole way down he was bragging about every saved penny, obliviously terrifying his passengers.
@hqcart1
Жыл бұрын
Just for your info, Carbon fiber does not get out of date, it's not like steel that rusts. cheers.
@fan-tastic5746
Жыл бұрын
The Rhino Liner is designed to be vapor permeable so moisture does not accumulate under it. This means that at high pressure, water vapor would be pushed through and accumulate under the liner in the pores of the carbon fiber as it descended. When the Titan then ascended this vapor would try to exit and cause delaminated blisters in the liner. In this video, and the original video by Alan por el mondo, these blisters are evident all over the hull. In the videos when Stockton is talking about the liner he’s places his hand on the hull and if you look closely he moves his thumb right on top of one of the blisters. The formation of these blisters make Rhino Liner inadequate for this application.
@phyllislecureryan9550
Жыл бұрын
I agree.
@DerBingle1
Жыл бұрын
Rush sort of knew what he was doing, but didn't really know enough to do what he was doing. And of course, he ignored all the experts in the field. It was just a matter of time.
@gopikrishnan890
Жыл бұрын
repeated dives fatigue failure never checked too
@DerBingle1
Жыл бұрын
@@gopikrishnan890 How could they not have taken that into account? It seems so basic.
@caviestcaveman8691
Жыл бұрын
Science is fun
@ClaireRozier-cm2ry
Жыл бұрын
l just wanted to say that one of the reasons I love watching these videos is the beautiful, gentle and soothing voice of the presenter - lovely.
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Wow, thank you Claire
@billbresnahan9949
Жыл бұрын
My buddy and his wife did the July 2022 trip down to titanic. This was their third trip in the Titan. The other trips being a trip down to Hudson canyon and the Azores trip . Mike said when the Titan went down to the titanic they played music to cover up the creaking and pops. When they did the Hudson canyon dive they lost contact with the surface for 2 hours!
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
That is scary!
@hostileaks4495
Жыл бұрын
The next time you're with him and you have beverage in a can, you drink the contents of the can. Next, you have to exaggerate the feeling of quenching your thirst with a big "ahhhh" so he looks at you. Lastly, you stare him directly in the eyes and crush the empty can with your hand. "Could've been you"
@colgsterr
Жыл бұрын
And yet they went on 3 trips? Fff that
@Whaleindowed
Жыл бұрын
Source: trust me. I trust you.
@green461
Жыл бұрын
And all those pops and cracks, nothing can be inspected if its all covered in rhinoliner.. Im shocked people went in it voluntarily.
@StevelandCleamer
Жыл бұрын
I really like that you’re still keeping tabs of this, Jeff. I’m really interested in the investigation, but mainstream outlets ditched this story so quickly.
@FJB2020
Жыл бұрын
He is doing it for the views.. This is hot topic and easily gets 25x more views than his normal content.. So of course he is going to milk it until the end..
@vladimus9749
Жыл бұрын
They tried to use the story as cover for everything that was coming out about the US president and his son that week. Kept pushing it 24/7 even after it was known the navy heard the underwater implosion. It didn't work and they abandoned the effort.
@loosilu
Жыл бұрын
@@FJB2020 There's nothing wrong with that.
@---Blue
Жыл бұрын
@@FJB2020 Win Win situation
@janalexandermyhrvold9554
Жыл бұрын
@@FJB2020 Understandable, but he is fortunately the best person around here to "milk" it so I don't mind this "exploit" that you suggest.
@thehark6247
Жыл бұрын
the fact that they made even a few trips successfully, is a small miracle. Quit while your ahead.
@HellNoKamala
Жыл бұрын
If they honestly wanted to know if if could be a submarine and not another disaster. The test would be more critical than the dive depth it was tested to I think. Trying to make money killed his passengers and himself, very intelligent,not
@SamiJ1508
Жыл бұрын
@@HellNoKamalaseriously. They needed to be sure it was good to twice the depth. Humans have been to the Marianas trench, nearly 3 times deeper. There is no excuse for a sub designed to go to titanic depths to fail
@piscinaiv7937
Жыл бұрын
yup. this thing was failing more and more in real time every time they took it out.
@Name-ot3xw
Жыл бұрын
They found it so fast, because they went to its last known location and wouldn't you know it, it was still where it imploded. Shocking I know.
@Paul_Wetor
Жыл бұрын
At least their location data was spot-on. The Titanic's location was supposedly known, yet it took 70 years to find it.
@surfside75
Жыл бұрын
US Navy knew exactly when the implosion happened. Then triangulated the location to determine in fact it was the Titan giving up the ghost. Some could say he was in a Rush and couldn't wait to get the Full Titanic experience😒 -I'm here all week😂😎
@teamidris
Жыл бұрын
Also using sonar to find two titanium domes. They would have a huge signal.
@Scoobydcs
Жыл бұрын
@@teamidrisbigger than the titanic itself? Lol
@petersoerent2554
Жыл бұрын
This looks strange.... the Titan had only a 14% succesrate The rescueteam found it right away..
@creatrixZBD
Жыл бұрын
I think it’s beyond incredible, the level organisation and execution of the rescue and recovery response. It’s hard to imagine all the different levels of logistics/co-ordination etc that had to be managed. Top job
@yourshadows
Жыл бұрын
That’s what these ppl do, they’re trained to do this, so I don’t particularly see it as anything to boast about. They prepared their equipment, they called their crew, they went where they were told to
@southernflatland
Жыл бұрын
OceanGate themselves took like 8 hours before they announced to anyone that they had lost contact with the sub. Once they did finally announce that, and the time they lost contact, the Navy checked their hydrophonic sensors and triangulated the exact location and exact time of the underwater implosion. They already knew on the first day it had imploded. There never was any hope for them and they knew it. How is it in any way 'impressive' when they spent days literally lying to the public giving people false hope? It never was a rescue mission, it was a recovery mission.
@southernflatland
Жыл бұрын
@@MoltenMozzarella Again, read my comment, and do some research. The US Navy already knew they were dead on day one, from triangulation of their underwater sound sensors.
@southernflatland
Жыл бұрын
@@MoltenMozzarella Also forgot to mention, the implosion was triangulated to approximately ~1600 feet above the Titanic.
@southernflatland
Жыл бұрын
@@MoltenMozzarella Proof = found the debris and remains. They already knew, they just wanted to avoid bad publicity.
@Archlegan
Жыл бұрын
My theory: Since we now have information from the engineer who did NDT on the CF hull, and how sketchy stockton rush is..I'd bet the bank that he had rhinoliner applied to hide the issues the hull had. The engineer said he could see holes and delaminations on that hull with a flashlight, was quickly let go..I bet they covered it with rhinoliner the same day. At least in my auto tech days, you'd see rhinoliner layers less than 1mm thick, and in heavy duty situations, maybe 3mm thick--and that's with a lot of coats. What rhinoliner does best aside from rust protection is hiding things, be it an old beat up truck bed to a carbon fiber hull with visible holes in it. Perhaps they did it to "seal" the epoxy joints, but that's a very generous conclusion. There was no real reason to have it on there besides covering up the CF, nothing aside from their hardware would corrode, as far as I know. The big question would be if it IS really for moisture, then why was it not applied to just about everything that can corrode? Why was a better sealant not used? Personally, I'm surprised that vessel didn't implode on the first dive, perhaps the compression the CF would see would partly seal the holes but I'm not educated enough to say that.
@jacoyia5577
Жыл бұрын
I absolutely love watching your videos. You have the perfect voice for this and explain everything very well. Thank you
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Glad you like them!
@melindaharrington7588
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffostroff Me, too ☺ 👍 From, Australia ☺ 👋
@orange42
Жыл бұрын
The crazy thing is Rush saying the purpose of the Rino liner - to stop water ingress into the carbon fibre. So the fibre cracks and water gets in, the craft gets much heavier, and sinks too fast, showing it is half destroyed already.
@indridcold8433
Жыл бұрын
That is very likely why that trash can had so much trouble surfacing during the test dive. The carbon fiber walls were saturated and lost their original buoyancy
@LatitudeSky
Жыл бұрын
They were doomed the moment they launched. Even at that moment, they probably lacked the ability to resurface. It was already too heavy. That thing was a coffin as soon as the bolts were tightened.
@mistert7958
Жыл бұрын
I didn't see the video of them applying it with household paint rollers, allegedly. Or was it a Wagner Power Painter???
@gavinjenkins899
Жыл бұрын
No, there is no air in the carbon fiber to be displaced by water, so this theory doesn't make any sense. In order for "water to ingress" you'd have to make a space for it first, by a delamination or something, which means that by definition, that wasn't something it was ever relying on to have air in that space either, so it couldn't cause a problem. The only two things that make any sense for sinking too fast are: 1) Too much cargo / too heavy passengers, or 2) Maybe if some spaces were filled with oil (rear equipment bays outside the pressure vessel), and the oil leaked and was replaced with slightly heavier water.
@joelopez3954
Жыл бұрын
PT Barnum quoted : “ There’s a sucker born every minute “! I feel bad for the grossly misinformed passengers, who would surely have cancelled any trip on the “ Experimental death trap “ that OceanGate built and will surely pay dearly for now, despite any flimsy waivers!
@blipco5
Жыл бұрын
Even way back about 1928 when Otis Barton designed the first deep diving bell the engineers knew the shape must be a SPHERE made out of a single material to withstand great pressure. Simple is better. The more parts you have the more there is to go wrong.
@DerBingle1
Жыл бұрын
But Stockton Rush knew better. In his mind, he was the greatest engineer who ever lived. And he died for his unbelievable hubris.
@drrocketman7794
Жыл бұрын
@DerBingle1 Sounds like Osborn in The Amazing Spider-Man... "Sir, we cannot do this. It hasn't been tested!" "Then test it on me." "NO!"
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
@drrocketman7794 RUSH was obviously a marketer (professional liar) not an engineer. Elon Musk has the same trait .
@danielhowison7262
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Jeff. Your videos are really instructive for people that are interested by this tragedy.
@rodbenson5879
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for explaining why it took so long to send a sub down to the wreck sight. It makes the story even more fascinating as it raises the odd reality that even if the experts knew the Titan had been lost, they couldn't exactly turn around to the world and say, "nah the navy heard the implosion, it is going to take nearly a week to recover the remains so in the meantime we wait." Can you imagine the outcry? Therefore they had to play along with the public's expectations that just maybe it was still a viable submersible while they waited for the recovery operation to begin. This gave the world media a perfect story to feed on in those intermediate days between the tragedy and the recovery.
@Jake-bt3fc
Жыл бұрын
Search and rescue always do this. If you go missing in the woods in extreme weather they’ll look for you and pretend you’re alive for weeks even if it’s impossible.
@alexturnbackthearmy1907
Жыл бұрын
@@Jake-bt3fc For YEARS. Even if person was seen decades ago, search is still going on, not for a person ofc, but for some kind of remains.
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
@alexturnbackthearmy1907 WRONG. According to Missing 411’s research, lost person searches end in a few days. 99% of those people are volunteers and need to return to their normal lives. The police or rangers write “missing” in the logbook & that’s the end. Sometimes a corpse or clothing will be found by a hiker years later… but that’s by accident. Not part of an active search.
@803brando
Жыл бұрын
i spray that coating in the automotive industry, its a cross-linked catalyzed urethane, some of the toughest stuff around, can be strengthened with glass/kevlar fiber. but i cant say it would hold up down to 12,000 ft.
@life_of_riley88
Жыл бұрын
Truck bed liner and all of its derivatives are pretty cool, buuuuut yeah, like you said 12,000ft? It was not engineered for that, and I'm sure a polymer of some sort COULD be engineered for that. That's the worst part.
@Meatball2022
Жыл бұрын
He didn’t want thicker and cross bound carbon fiber to save weight. But he uses rhino liner.
@inthefade
Жыл бұрын
I had had assumed they didn't cross the fiber because it was more expensive to build that way, but it was only due to weight? How does that even make sense?
@Meatball2022
Жыл бұрын
@@inthefade it was definitely on the cheap, but I remember him saying he wanted it to be naturally positively buoyant so the default if things fail is that it floats
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if they used the autoclave to cure it
@Meatball2022
Жыл бұрын
@@inthefadeI believe the whole reason he used carbon fiber to begin with was to save weight
@etaureau
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffostroffI had heard in video that the second hull was autoclaved, but I am not sure. I feel like I need a score card. Thank you for the great information
@johnjriggsarchery2457
Жыл бұрын
The real question is, what did they do right? Basically, nothing.
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Wellt hey did make it down there a few times
@padeosarran
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffostroffhi Jeff, thank you for your analysis! Really enjoy them. A question on this, perhaps i missed in your series. Are you saying this same submersible made it to the titanic and back? How many times? And are there NDT results that explain its integrity to make the same trip?
@Greybeardmedic
Жыл бұрын
Apollo 13 transcript (after the explosion) Gene Kranz: Sy, tell me what do we have on the spacecraft thats good? Sy Liebergott: I'll have to get back to you Gene.
@OMG_No_Way
Жыл бұрын
@@padeosarran Yes, it has been down there 3 other times.
@BlindBatG34
Жыл бұрын
I don’t think Ocean Gate gets enough credit. They obviously had a pretty well thought out disaster recovery plan including contracts in place with Pelagic well before the disaster occurred. They probably had a lot of other well thought out systems in place but when your boss is crazy and cheap there is only so much you can do.
@Seadog..11
Жыл бұрын
You stated several times how it took so long for the recovery. Actually I was pretty damn impressed how quick the equipment was on scene. Ocean Gate new immediately what happened. Rush was trying to ascend and he couldn't ascend more than 30m in 3 minutes. Then all communication was lost. Easy to find them.. you look underneath where they lost communication. It's the old falling Like a Rock scenario
@wmd40
Жыл бұрын
Lol what. When something falls in the ocean it doesn't fall directly underneath. I agree they knew immediately because it's not that difficult to determine especially when you've got the military helping.
@Seadog..11
Жыл бұрын
@@wmd40 I wasn't trying to be technical. And it was found relatively underneath where they lost communication. I believe only 120m. The inversion layers in that area are well-known. That's where a lot of Soviet Subs would hide. And before you say anything, I know they did not hide that deep. Time to put this crew to rest.. RIP TITAN
@steveosterman2179
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing - the fact that the recovery team got there so fast is nothing short of heroic.
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
@24kt73 I thought the youtuber was saying the loading of the sub onto the platform is what took ridiculously long (9 hours after surfacing) .
@Seadog..11
Жыл бұрын
@@electrictroy2010 now if that was the case then I'm wrong in correcting him. But they still did a damn good job of getting everything out there
@thomasl.4081
Жыл бұрын
Using smaller models for testing is not at all unusual, as every engineer knows. There are entire departments dedicated to scaling large components to smaller test models. You just have to do it right and interpret the results correctly.
@thomasbarber9802
Жыл бұрын
Came here for this comment, I enjoyed the video overall but this stuck out like a sore thumb.
@slackerman9758
Жыл бұрын
Some things here might not have scaled well like the ratio of the fiber thickness to the bend radius, and the thickness of the wrap to the bend radius. Nothing wrong with starting with a scale model, though.
@kirkc9643
Жыл бұрын
The carbon fibre construction itself does not scale in a linear manner. There is no way you can accurately test using scale models.
@someguy4915
Жыл бұрын
Nothing wrong with scale model testing but certainly a lot wrong with ONLY doing a scale model test. Nobody builds a 1:3 size car to test it and then just starts building the full size car and sell it without any testing.
@martystrasinger3801
Жыл бұрын
Thinking out loud- since mass doesn’t change linearly with volume, certain tests would be fine with scale models, and others not so much.
@trucid2
Жыл бұрын
In the 1/3 model they used carbon fiber caps. Now that's crazy.
@raven4k998
Жыл бұрын
9.1.1. what is your emergency? I love how the model failed and they call that a success🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Whydoyouneedtoknow776
Жыл бұрын
Do we know if that test put equal pressure on all sides? Was there equal pressure on the middle on the CF Tube?
@allangibson8494
Жыл бұрын
@@Whydoyouneedtoknow776The test article was tested in the university of Washington’s test tank (that it wrecked). There would be about 10kPa/1.5psi difference in pressure from top to bottom of the submersible.
@Whydoyouneedtoknow776
Жыл бұрын
@@allangibson8494 Thanks for the info! I assumed the air pressure would be spread evenly around the object but thanks for the hard numbers 🤙
@sabelmwheeler9279
Жыл бұрын
@@allangibson8494oh my gosh! Wow I remembered reading that some where but it slipped my mind because of everything else oh my gosh! Wow! That’s really something else that they still went through with the titanic missions even after it failing in the test article. Wow just wow. I have no idea how this could even be legal. Irregardless, enough people in the submersible community knew that this was an accident waiting to happen I feel as if more people should have spoke up about their experiences and their opinions about this titan submersible on the mainstream news etc so at least these passengers could have maybe possibly known what they were getting themselves in too.
@Paul_Wetor
Жыл бұрын
They probably stress-tested a model to save money. But _how many_ tests were done to show stress over time? Side note: Seeing that smooth white exterior of Titan reminded me of a software presentation I attended long ago. I was impressed by their nice diagrams showing how the applications worked together. Then I had a flash of insight, picturing their code being just as old and patched as ours, but they had a pretty box around it which made it look neat and tidy.
@rogwarrior1018
Жыл бұрын
not to mention professional......
@iam1smiley1
Жыл бұрын
I hear very few tests were done on structural integrity....like scary little!!
@connormclernon26
Жыл бұрын
@@iam1smiley1a grand total of one
@genejasper4091
Жыл бұрын
The one third scale test failed after 4000 psi before 5000 psi.
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
@Paul_Wetor Marketing == professional lying.
@jonathanwhitten4566
Жыл бұрын
I live in St. John's Newfoundland and seeing all the traffic in our harbour I knew something was up. I watched things unfold with no context until after the first press release.
@soulbot119
Жыл бұрын
Don't you hate how not a single American knows how to pronounce *Newfoundland?* They all say something like "New Finland", like nobody ever pays attention to how Canadians actually say it. Or maybe they think we're saying it wrong and they're trying to correct us
@jonathanwhitten4566
Жыл бұрын
@@soulbot119 hahaha I'm pretty much used to it, I'd say 95 percent of the world says it wrong.
@HitokiriShaggyTTV
Жыл бұрын
@@soulbot119didnt know this was a thing. I pronounce it 'New-found-land" is that the correct way? Edit: when i looked it up on google. It says its pronounced "noo-fuhnd-luhnd" which does sound like new finland. Anyways how do Canadians pronounce it. Apparently ive always mispronounced it.
@LordJimUSA
Жыл бұрын
Are there any decent cafes around there?
@jonathanwhitten4566
Жыл бұрын
@@HitokiriShaggyTTV saying it New-Found-Land is correct.
@aaarrh6
Жыл бұрын
I am familiar with thick film elastomers such as Rhino Lining. It is very durable but it ONLY provides abrasion and impact resistance for the carbon fiber surface. Think of it more as a durable paint that won’t crack with limited deflection. With this type of coating the real concern would be the inability to do a visual inspection of the carbon fiber surface.
@RCake
Жыл бұрын
Wow, but this is the really key news in two ways. 1) if Ocean Gate built a second hull, that means a) they had a reason to do so, e.g. something was going downhill with the first. Also b) this gave them the chance to do a detail analysis, both macroscopic as well as microscopic, how the first Hull had fared during its well- documented life. This would give OG a chance to greatly improve their aging model for the hull. 2) if the analysis results from the first hull were not appropriately used in the usage profile of the second hull - and lawsuits will undoubtedly bring this information to light - then this could lead to criminal charges.
@lindamcmillan7618
2 ай бұрын
Yes criminal charges should happen lochbrige told him about all these faults and the poor guy got sacked also karl stanley who is a very clever guy these people trusted rush and they did not know titan eas a deTh trap was stocton running out of money after covid I hope wendy is made to talk when this hits court she is an accomplished and she can't leave the country this mess is karma all because her know it all hubby would not listen to experts and if you discard nice people tou pay the price.
@silmarian
Жыл бұрын
Pelagic really moved fast considering everything they had to do to get out there. Their staff was scattered hither and yon and they were doing maintenance.
@LeverPhile
Жыл бұрын
Yes, despite how long it took, they moved amazingly fast given the no advance notice.
@Kimber123
Жыл бұрын
I agree. When you see the timeline broken down like that, it makes me even more incensed how some people have the audacity to bad-mouth the Coast Guard and all the recovery efforts that went into this. They could not have found the wreckage any faster!
@davidheinzmann4403
Жыл бұрын
Saw the C-17 and a tanker plane flying over our WNY house.
@silmarian
Жыл бұрын
@@Kimber123 Right? There’s very few subs and ROVs in the world that can get down there, let alone are big enough to actually do anything useful besides take pictures when they do. At the time I was honestly expecting it to be a week or more before they got anything on site that could actually get down there. The whole “the navy heard it, why didn’t they say so?” is another one that annoys me. The navy heard something but didn’t necessarily know it was an implosion until after the implosion was confirmed. It’s not like “poorly constructed death trap imploding in the depths” is something they’ve heard a lot before.
@Kimber123
Жыл бұрын
@@silmarian 💯!!! That really bugs me, too! Apparently, some people would have preferred the Navy to announce that the thing imploded before they knew any details and w/out any confirmation, only to discover (no matter how small a chance) that the sub actually survived and was on the surface.
@MrArdytube
Жыл бұрын
I think the rhino liner was because they knew there was porosity in the body which could cause problems with extreme pressure changes
@mikefochtman7164
Жыл бұрын
Agree, but what happens when extreme pressures start to 'push' the rhino liner material itself into the pores of carbon fibre? Be a bit like an extrusion machine pushing plastic into a mold I would think.
@DerBingle1
Жыл бұрын
That fact alone should have made this a no-go. Instead he put a bandade on it. Damn fool.
@avanap8096
Жыл бұрын
Yep. Band aids aren't always the best go to
@kenbrownfield6584
Жыл бұрын
He should have used Legos
@firewalker1372
Жыл бұрын
Flex seal, it’s like a handyman in a can!! 😂 I got rhino bed liner in the back of my truck. Now they are going to have to put a disclaimer on the website telling people not to use this material for submersibles, watch and see 😂.
@johnafish
Жыл бұрын
The implosion test at the end of the video was with a pressure differential of
@aptroed
Жыл бұрын
Jeff, I love your videos and technical details. I think the one source of failure was the titanium to carbon fiber seal at the end caps. I don’t know if anyone has tested the failure strength of the seal. As the sub descends, the carbon fiber cylinder would be squeezed in the middle , making it deform, and pulling away from the glue seal of the end caps. As you pointed out in one video, the titanium had no “scoring”, which would make the glue hold more firmly, and even then, that might not have helped. Although the tensile strength of carbon fiber is very high, the compressive strength is much lower, so that the two hemispheric titanium caps may have simply crushed in on themselves, much like crushing an upright empty soda can. I cannot still quite understand how the front port view hole was blown clean, unless when the end caps crushed in on themselves, and also compressed all the occupants into the front end and blew the port hole from inside out. Gruesome, but instantaneous.
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
I pointed out on the last video I believe that when they attached the titanium rings to the carbon fiber cylinder you did not see any epoxy come oozing out which makes me wonder whether they even used enough to begin with or whether they roughened to the service with an acid etch first on the titanium before applying A proxy which is not known to stick very well to titanium because it's such a smooth metal.
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
@aptroed VIDEO exists of a guy testing a small model of the Titan at depth. The failure was not the dome endcaps. Instead the cylinder cracks & shatters (at the midpoint of the vessel) .
@CHMin-cl5wi
Жыл бұрын
I honestly believe the loud gunshot sounds they were hearing the time before when submerged was the carbon fiber filament snapping under immense pressure like pulling a giant cable too tight until it breaks. can you imagine how loud that was ? From earlier footage they said the tube was made from a single strand of carbon fiber spun around a tube shape and then glazed with the apoxy while it was being wound, that sound they heard was the single continuous strand of carbon fiber snapping in multiple places under immense pressure. So that death trap had multiple failure points and even a child could prob point it out on xray
@Jester123ish
Жыл бұрын
Except it would seem the carbon fiber was mostly in compression, it's the resin that was doing the heavy lifting.
@properfpv7160
Жыл бұрын
No it was the exact opposite. Your scenario sounds like it was pressurized and exploded from inside out. This was crushed. No stretching of strands at all. The popping was likely the fracturing of the resin of the hull, the acrylic porthole or the glue between the titanium and the carbon. Carbon graphite behaves like glass and shatters like glass under pressure. It does not behave like fabric, rope or Kevlar under tension. It’s an implosion and it would be instant.
@Heike--
Жыл бұрын
The loud sounds were the electrical system shorting, as water had begun leaking into the hull.
@IronWarrior95
Жыл бұрын
@@Heike-- no, the loud sounds were the carbon fibers breaking bit by bit. At first the sound came from the whole hull and not just from one end of the submersible and for over 20min. But more important is, that the loud cracking sound was already heard before. In fact during the first test dives with the Titan prototype there were gun shot loud cracking sounds in the whole hull, while not even going that deep. The carbon fibre hull was then improved and the cracking got quieter and happened only from time to time. Every time when pressure was applied and everytime pressure was released, meaning that there was a lot of energy "stored" in the hull, that went away when coming up to the surface, as stated by a person that experienced it. On the day of the implosion, the carbon fiber was probably cracking more than ever before, because it was breaking just everywhere, additional to the older broken parts from the dives before. So when there was structural damage after every dive, it was just a question of time when it gets weakened so much, that it can't withstand the pressure anymore.
@Capecodham
Жыл бұрын
footage? They use film?
@nm9412
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video! I was looking forward to it when I saw other AI videos come out about something new because they start their story over again on what actually happened on 6/18 and how many people went diving and who these people were. It’s annoying. You get straight to the point. You made good points in this video.
@creatrixZBD
Жыл бұрын
The ever growing AI channels are a scourge
@Starchface
Жыл бұрын
The AI videos are so bad. They may (or may not) be factual, but they go nowhere. Like a hollow Easter bunny, there is no purpose, no substance.
@eerielamp
Жыл бұрын
If this case study has brought anything, it at least gives me and my other engineer friends a fun game to play (or controversy, perhaps) that I call, "what failed first: the fiber, the window, or the glue?" Its kind of like the proverbial chicken and egg, not sure if theres a right answer. But its fun to discuss, especially when some are absolutely determined it is one over the others.
@ReyOfLight
Жыл бұрын
A friend of mine who's playing a racing game recently showed me a video of how someone had modded the game and was driving on the racetrack in a car looking like the Titan. Honestly think Titan would have fared better as a race car than as a submersible...
@billj5645
Жыл бұрын
The glue has been a popular scapepgoat on youtube but I think it wasn't needed to function like a glue since external pressure forced everything together, the glue was only functioning as a gasket sealer. That is still an important function though, however if the gasket sealer failed the sub would not have imploded, it would have just slowly filled with water.
@Rudy97
Жыл бұрын
@@billj5645My guess is the glue failed. As the hull was deforming under pressure it started slipping out of the titanium end cap. Glue let go, hull pushed itself out of the groove and collapsed.
@seanjoseph8637
Жыл бұрын
The carbon fiber body is my favourite. The window will have been designed to push on the titanium end under pressure. The way the vessel was assembled meant the pressure was pushing the endcaps onto the hull under pressure so I can't see the glue failing to be catastrophic. So I say the hull is most likely the first point of failure.
@ButterfatFarms
Жыл бұрын
@@billj5645nothing slowly fills with water due to a leak at 6,000 PSI. That's not how it works! 😂
@charmcitytoe
Жыл бұрын
I didn't know that they had originally tried using Carbon Fiber on the end caps. Is there any information on why he decided to use titanium then? Was it as a result of these tests, and if so; would he not question it's use for the main body? Very interesting information Doc. Curious to see what else you find out.
@meeksdigital
Жыл бұрын
Also note the cross-woven carbon fiber on the test article. Definitely not how the Titan's hull was constructed!
@MadnerKami
Жыл бұрын
See that might be the funny part or, rather, one of the many funny parts. Since it was always the end-caps failing, they might not have realized that they had a critical flaw in the main hull, because that one always got away when they aborted the test due to the end cap failing. So after what? Three? Five? Ten tests with the end-caps failing, the main hull never failed and so it never occured to them until reality interfered.
@Ardentbluesky89
Жыл бұрын
Finally!! I've been waiting to hear about this. It's the same thing they spray in pickup truck beds, isn't it?? I caught that and kept waiting for someone to call it out!! Thank you!
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Yes they also have a marine division
@dougcollins9980
Жыл бұрын
Applying any thick coating to a structure that is going to get wet is problematic. It makes it nearly impossible to do any meaningful inspection of deterioration of the fibre composite or to assess water penetration.
@qarnos
Жыл бұрын
@@dougcollins9980 It doesn't matter in this case as they didn't do any inspections.
@silentpoet75
Жыл бұрын
One thing I like about the carbon fiber domes is that it would react the same to pressure as the hull. I strongly suspect that the different materials, which would react to the stresses of the dives in differing ways, is a big contributing factor to the final implosion. However there are so many things they screwed up who knows which imbicillic decision was the straw that broke the camel's back.
@claireway-6545
Жыл бұрын
Nobody had test data on carbon fibre domes because nobody else was foolish enough to try it.
@1DigitalFlow
Жыл бұрын
Carbon fiber domes is a good idea if you wanted it to shatter the first time down.
@MadnerKami
Жыл бұрын
" However there are so many things they screwed up who knows which imbicillic decision was the straw that broke the camel's back." Yeah. At that point you have to ask yourself: What didn't go wrong? And how did it manage to be fine as long as it did, despite all the odds against it...
@Mutrino
Жыл бұрын
Making that hull out of carbon fiber was the thing that doomed that submersible. What you coat it with is kind of irrelevant.
@user-hs4ih8zp7e
4 ай бұрын
Well you would be dead if you went with cf domes
@ryanackley5242
Жыл бұрын
Liked immediately! You probably have the best series of takes on this
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
@jfan4reva
Жыл бұрын
Tank implosion 12:11 - you'll notice that the walls of the tank were only prevented from 100% collapse by the metal rings. Titan only had rings at the ends of the CF portion of the hull. Unlike the metal tank, the CF walls of the sub would not bend inwards, but shattered instead, shredding anything and everything inside. I'm surprised there were any 'human remains' left to be found.
@funnyfarm5555
Жыл бұрын
We will find out what they found sometime in the next two to five years. Coast Guard has all the wreckage.
@jobethk588
Жыл бұрын
That inside view of the tank implosion was horrifying.
@jim2386
Жыл бұрын
Only 1 ATM too. The sub was around 380 ATM
@WackyModder84
Жыл бұрын
Regarding Rhino Liner: I think an appropriate thing to get confirmation is to get in contact with Rhino Linings themselves and ask them directly if using Rhino Liner on a submarine is a good idea or not. If someone can ask them directly and get a reply from them on this topic, I think that would definitely provide a more direct insight on if Stockton Rush misused Rhino Liner or not.
@andrewmoore2939
Жыл бұрын
well I just looked up there tech data and that's one of the 3 things it says not to use it with, I'm not an engineer and found that info in about 2 mins
@MoneyManHolmes
Жыл бұрын
I doubt that they used actual Rhino liner. I bet he was just calling it that like people call any soda a Coke or any bandage a Bandaid. It would be a good idea to keep digging and find out what brand the coating actually was, or verify that it was Rhino.
@vinniehugo9065
Жыл бұрын
@@MoneyManHolmesyou overthinking this bro. It was rhino liner.
@o3941
Жыл бұрын
@@vinniehugo9065 I agree. Rush did say he used "off the shelf" products, so I would not be surprised if it was rhino liner.
@peterdarr383
Жыл бұрын
My bed coating is amazingly tough, professionally applied (not from spray cans) but Rush was wanting Rhino Liner to be the water barrier that would keep high pressure water from seeping into the carbon fiber. OK, well, as soon as ANY sensor detected ANY cracking sound he would know this failed ! Just think - If he had spent a little more for a Titanium Tube built to well-understood specs he would have an actual success with his sub.
@chicken-bone
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoy these videos. You provide updated information without summarizing the entire event/implosion like every other channel. Thanks for the updates. 👍
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
Other channels summarize what we already know because they are trying to reach the minimum 10 minutes for monetization. Also the longer the video, the more ads get displayed & more money the youtuber gets paid.
@chicken-bone
Жыл бұрын
Ah got it. Thanks for the info, but I still like your concise delivery of information 🙂@@electrictroy2010
@lindablue7494
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing these videos Jeff. I appreciate the chance to learn about all these types of things. Which are super fascinating, however it's just so sad that a massive tragedy had to happen for us to learn all of these things. When you said Rhino Liner I immediately thought omg he tried Flex Seal and then you showed that commercial. Wow. If that's the type of stuff that he was trying he is lucky that him and his passengers didn't have issues way earlier than this. This thing is an experimental death trap. Oh wow yeah that implosion example. Anyone caught in that is dead for sure and in the water, They were dead before they got in it. I feel so bad for those who died in this incident.
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
Rush was obviously a marketer (professional liar) not an engineer. Elon Musk has the same trait .
@trikstari7687
Жыл бұрын
I remember Mythbusters testing Rhino Liner to see if it could make a piece of plywood "explosion proof" and it did increase the plywoods ability to handle the pressure wave up to a certain distance.
@thechurn4766
Жыл бұрын
I do wonder if the porosity of the carbon fiber was changing with each dive. Meaning the rhino layer did nothing, and with each dive, the outer layers started to fail and separate. This slowly allows more water intrusion, and each time the sub was used, this would change the buoyancy characteristics of the submersable. Thus, in the final dive, even if they detected the failure, they could not surface because the carbon fiber was essentially water logged.
@electrictroy2010
Жыл бұрын
@thechurn4766 THEY still had time to surface. The team noticed at 15 minutes the descent was almost twice as fast (indicating extra water onboard). If Rush had aborted the dive, they still had the ability to rise (though much slower than designed)
@thechurn4766
Жыл бұрын
@electrictroy2010 the issue is still likely the carbon fiber. When that material fails, it gives little to no warning and fails catastrophically. Things like metal tend to show signs of fatigue and will bend or buckle before that can be seen visually before failure. I also wonder if water had infiltrated between the carbon layers so there would be no way to compensate for the change in boyency. The rapid desent did not help. The cyclic fatigue on the carbon fiber was, however, doomed to lead to failure evetually. Furthermore, there is no way visual inspection would be able to pick the issue up. It would require ultrasound and other imaging techniques.
@timbounds7190
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your vids on this. It gets more and more shocking - the idea that some sort of spray on lining would aid water pressure resistance at 4000m is just insane, even to a non-engineer like me!
@peabody3000
Жыл бұрын
in all fairness though, structural rigidity wasn't the lining's purpose, it was meant only to address the porosity of the composite
@timbounds7190
Жыл бұрын
@@peabody3000 Well, it may be a matter of semantics, but I wasn't really thinking that they thought the coating would increase rigidity per se, but to me 'addressing the porosity of the composite' as you put it, is practically the same thing - ie putting some sort of coating on in the hope that it would help keep 400 atm of water pressure at bay - which sounds a pretty hare-brained idea to me! (though as I said, I'm not an engineer in any shape or form).
@peabody3000
Жыл бұрын
@@timbounds7190 yea being an untested application it's def harebrained either way. since the liner would only have to protect tiny air inclusions, it wouldn't necessarily be vulnerable to the immense pressures. like, you can see thin plastic parts in use on submersibles in spots where they don't have to keep pressure out of something by themselves. of course proper testing would still be crucial, to make sure the liner didn't have it's own inclusions or physical properties that could get compromised etc
@DKFX1
Жыл бұрын
I'm guessing he did it for either 2 reasons. 1: he wanted to coverr up the ugly carbon fiber hull which had visible signs of wear. or 2: the rhino liner helped make the sub more silent by deafening the crackling noises.
@timbounds7190
Жыл бұрын
@@DKFX1 Cynic! However, you might be right....but he got that wrong as it would have provided better sound deadening to put the coating on the inside rather than the outside!
@BTCxyz369
Жыл бұрын
The actual smirk on Stockton face wen he explains it's Rino liner says it all... 😂 Fark he was such a tool🤣
@666cemetaryslut
Жыл бұрын
Yes, he was quite proud of how he rigged everything together.
@memenstein1754
Жыл бұрын
Something I've been curious about that nobody has touched on in any KZitem video that I've seen so far is: how are all the electrical wires from inside the submarine connected to the things on the outside of the submarine?
@ajtony1313
Жыл бұрын
I had the same thought. It had to be through the titanium end caps. Metal based successful submersibles would have worked out this technology.
@millopguy
Жыл бұрын
I commented on a previous video here that Rhinoliner was a red flag in compatibility to me after first hearing about it. I'm glad you have looked into this. I really enjoy your investigative videos.
@StevelandCleamer
Жыл бұрын
Interesting that you mentioned the rhino liner. We do not use it on military submarines. We use non-skid, which is pretty much a coarse paint. Even that chips quite a bit after a little while
@DaveC_TN
Жыл бұрын
The US Navy does not use non-skid on submarine exterior surfaces. That's used on flight decks and other walking surfaces because of it's incredible durability and high friction. It's comparable to sandpaper made with rocks instead of sand. It creates TONS of friction, lasts a very long time under seriously harsh conditions, and is anything but easy to remove. Trust me on that...I was stationed aboard carriers... I also served in a maintenance activity that services subs so know a little about that too. US Navy submarines use a highly classified, rubberized coating that's very smooth and slick to minimize sound reflection, turbulence, and drag in water. This material is much, much, much different than either non-skid or Rhino-liner. It is also used for 'waterproofing' to prevent corrosion of the hull but not for any pressure resistance purposes. It is literally just a sound-deadening and friction-resistant protective coating to prevent acoustic detection, improve a sub's underwater performance, and prevent external hull surface rust. The pressure hull and buoyancy components are all made of steel, stainless steel (some internal piping...), or some other exotic metallic material. Anything but fiberglass or carbon fiber. This submersible was destined to fail due to Stockton Rush's arrogance, flippant concern for the 'tried and true methods' of submersible construction, and complete lack of design safety awareness. If I had the opportunity to ride on that death trap, even for FREE, I would have never signed up. As soon as they said 'never been done before' with it's construction, I was shaking my head. When they said the end cap was BOLTED ON and there's NO ESCAPE HATCH, I was completely convinced - an idiot designed this.
@StevelandCleamer
Жыл бұрын
@@DaveC_TN I don’t disagree with the fact that we use MIP/SHT depending on the class of boat, but you’re wrong about using non-skid. Practically the entire topside of US submarines is coated in non-skid. And to add to the MIP/SHT point, it actually creates a ton of drag, considering it doesn’t last and peels off in relatively large pieces.
@williamfowler616
Жыл бұрын
the US uses steel for the exterior of the subs with a soundproofing coating on top of that to reduce noise, not to seal it up.
@StevelandCleamer
Жыл бұрын
@@williamfowler616 yeah read previous comments. That’s been addressed.
@jdranetz
Жыл бұрын
Isn't that stuff essentially pick up truck bed lining from Autozone?
@BabuskaDoll
Жыл бұрын
Really??!
@phil4986
Жыл бұрын
Yup, it just gets more laughable the more info that comes out.
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
They have a marine division
@jdranetz
Жыл бұрын
It looks like he used a substance similar to Durabak, a substance used to coat marine surfaces for the purpose of anti-corrosion and anti slip. It is the SAME substance as Heculiner, truck bed liner. Heculiner is supplemented with small rubber chunks to increase thickness and roughness. But, it's the same material. I covered my old car with it. Rhino Liner , Heculiner, Durabak. All the same stuff. I can't leave a link. But Google those products. Durabak may have been a slightly better choice, slightly. The navy uses it to coat surfaces. Anti corrosion, anti slip. It seems hard, but it will flex, that's why it won't flake off sheet metal, like a truck bed. Fiberglas epoxy would have been better, to a small degree. But, I guess he wanted the simplicity of a one component substance he didn't have to mix right before use. Kevlar vests, armor uses a better epoxy to hold it together than this Rhino Liner crap.
@LB-yv3wq
Жыл бұрын
Rhino skin or “liner” is a protective liner originally designed to protect a utes or “trucks” bed. And is incredibly effective at that task. I don’t believe it was ever intended to be used as a submarine component.
@ltdees2362
Жыл бұрын
...so he should have built the sub out of an F-150 truck bed coated with Rhino-Liner...would have been just fine...
@thecloneguyz
Жыл бұрын
So many people don't know the difference between a regular truck bed liner and Rhino Lining they are completely different one of them is a two-part system that's proprietary and releases heat and has to be put on specific and another one is just some crap that you roll on your bed of your truck
@someguy4915
Жыл бұрын
@@thecloneguyz And yet the company itself doesn't mention that their product can be used as a structural component in a submersible, or any underwater application for that matter. One would also wonder how the thermal reaction from such a two-part system would 'interact' with the carbon fiber hull during assembly/manufacturing...
@thecloneguyz
Жыл бұрын
@@someguy4915 to be fair it's Line-X that's used to stabilize buildings that's why the government bought the company
@johnnhoj6749
Жыл бұрын
It's as if Rush saw innovation as a virtue in and of itself. There are potential new ways of doing things which are worse, in some cases catastrophically worse, than the existing methods, but that possibility doesn't seem to occur to him. It's like he Googled "waterproof" and found something cool looking that his submersible rivals weren't using and that's where his thinking about appropriateness stopped. Simply by using a non-standard material for the purpose he was getting one over on his fuddy-duddy competitors and that's all that mattered.
@peabody3000
Жыл бұрын
the way stockton describes the rhino liner, smiling and so impressed by his own genius......
@ivansmith654
Жыл бұрын
What a shame, Stockton Rush is a train wreck of an explorer, he made nothing but mistake after mistake, and no one stop him! 5 lives gone with many millions of dollars because he cannot do anything right! To the teenager, RIP!
@SloverOfTeuth
Жыл бұрын
Apparently he used to quote "You will be remembered for the rules you break", and I think that should be on his tombstone. The fool didn't realise that while you might be able to break the rules of society, the rules of physics play a hard game when there are thousands of tons of pressure on the hull.
@joelopez3954
Жыл бұрын
At least the ENTIRE PLANET is educated enough to know that Carbon Fiber and Deep Sea submersibles do NOT MIX!
@snowblow1984
Жыл бұрын
It may have to do with psychopathy
@LeverPhile
Жыл бұрын
Oh there were people warning him ... he simply fired and sued them.
@joelopez3954
Жыл бұрын
He WAS a “ Titanwreck of an explorer! GET IT RIGHT! 🤙🏻
@MaryClareVideos
Жыл бұрын
Rhino liner? Im not surprised. I heard he used Gorilla glue to adhere the titanium end caps to the pressure chamber.😂
@rubyoro0
Жыл бұрын
I guess it’s better than crazy glue.
@Woodman-Spare-that-tree
Жыл бұрын
It was on sale at Campers World where he bought the lighting .
@MaryClareVideos
Жыл бұрын
@@Woodman-Spare-that-tree LOL 😂 that’s funny!
@MaryClareVideos
Жыл бұрын
@@rubyoro0 😂😂😂
@indridcold8433
Жыл бұрын
He definitely should have used Flexseal. The seal so strong you can seal a rowboat with a storm door floor!
@magingi
Жыл бұрын
By using different materials for the hull, the main weakness would be the differential in terms of thermal expansion contingent on the temperature. So the titanium end caps would contract at a different rate than the carbon fiber as the sub descended(colder) and then expand at a different rate as the sub ascended(warmer) irrespective of the constant pressure at various depths. This differential could have resulted in increased fatigue of the hull leading to it eventually being fully compromised. One wonders if they pressure tested the model hull with varying temperatures to ascertain as such potential design flaw.
@additudeobx
Жыл бұрын
FLEX SEAL .... OMG....you're a riot Jeff!!!! My wife was applying her makeup at the kitchen table when she heard you say this.... You made her start laughing and screw up her eye liner....!!!!
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Yes! That is always my goal, or make you snarf out your coffee out your nose!
@teto85
Жыл бұрын
Cutting corners cuts lives short. If were a family member of the deceased tourists I would sue the company and Rush's estate.
@raven4k998
Жыл бұрын
and also calling a failure with your model a success only means that when you die it was a success🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
There were no corners on that hull! LOL! YEs he even went with the smaller cheaper Polar Prince boat and had to drag the sub behind them on the choppy ocean
@rubyoro0
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffostroff. Intwesting ….
@ann5028
Жыл бұрын
I think a waiver I saw for the titan on a lawyers channel said they’re not “tourists” they’re “explorers” or “citizen scientists” as a way to dodge the liability of not certifying the vessel. 🫣
@nickl5658
Жыл бұрын
Billionaire families suing some dude with a few million to his name? No... they would be too busy fighting over the family fortune. Some might even sent Stockton's widow a gift basket. The nett wealth of the passengers of the Titan was $2.86bn.
@milesmarquese
Жыл бұрын
I was waiting when Jeff was going to do another amazing break down video on oceangate and all of this madness. Anyways keep it coming with the content jeff because your video’s definitely don’t disappoint👍🏼🖤
@joelopez3954
Жыл бұрын
Jeff, I thought I heard something about the thickness of the Carbon Fiber Hull, and that it was originally slated to be 7”thick,…NOT 5”. Unfortunately, like the Acrylic port hole though, Ocean Gate went cheaper ( i. e. thinner ) and accelerated an already anticipated end result!
@jimw1615
Жыл бұрын
That is correct. The Titan carbon fiber tubular hull portion was designed to be 7" thick and then they fabricated it at 5" thick.
@MeteorTesh
Жыл бұрын
I've heard that. Would it have helped much or would it still have imploded in the end? Maybe just took a few more dives before it did?
@blarghmcblarghson1903
Жыл бұрын
@@MeteorTesh It was guaranteed to implode regardless, the carbon fiber Rush sourced was a) meant for airplanes, so the resin that gave it the rigidity wasn't formulated for anything more than 1 atm of pressure, and b) expired, meaning it had been sitting on a shelf for too long and was likely already delaminating even before being put under pressure. That's like trying to build a house on termite-infested beams, doesn't matter how many beams are used, it's still a house sitting on termite-infested beams.
@MeteorTesh
Жыл бұрын
@@blarghmcblarghson1903 ahh, thanks for explanation. So really, it is all seemingly pointing towards neglect on rushs side then.
@flergendorfprison
Жыл бұрын
Besides making the hull out of essentially very strong rope or string, there was no allowance for pitch control as the sub moved forward in the water. Submarines have diving planes to point its nose up and down. All the Titan had was four four small electric propellers amidships that could not control the forward and backward tilt of the sub. You needed diving planes to control this or additional motors and props on the front and back. As a last resort, the passengers should have had seat belts or something to keep them distributed around the sub so that it had a chance of staying level instead of nosediving to the bottom. I appreciate the work Jeff has put into this analysis. Good job!
@avenged06x
Жыл бұрын
Love the content and quality Jeff. Keep up the good work. Thanks for covering Ocean gate.
@RandyBoBandy.
Жыл бұрын
I’m sure Rhino Liner is thrilled to be mentioned during this.
@hb4196
Жыл бұрын
you forgot (NOT).
@snowblow1984
Жыл бұрын
I think we are missing electrical tape on the joints between CF and Titanium. . If he only used that, things would have been good. May be duct tape. That stuff works great!
@canislatrans8285
Жыл бұрын
Gorilla brand, with some gorilla glue too! LOL.
@snowblow1984
Жыл бұрын
@@canislatrans8285 More info comes more it looks like Rush just took the "I don't give a f..k" approach and killed his patrons and himself as a result under the premise of "innovation" and "safety hinders progress" as the icing on the cake but ....... Was it all just for money or was he a sociopath or high functioning psychopath?
@kennethng8346
Жыл бұрын
Scale models are fine for development work where you know you will try many versions, both to keep the cost down and to be able to iterate quickly. But the final should have been full size.
@Kimber123
Жыл бұрын
Doing the testing on a model 1/3 the size is hardly indicative of what things will be like on the actual sub 13,000 feet down there. It's truly hard to believe how cavalier he was about the whole thing.
@jeffeloso
Жыл бұрын
Aeroplanes have had full scale fatigue test specimens. The Concorde fuselage full scale was immersed in a water tank to test the integrity under internal pressure differential given the fairly extreme duty cycles caused by supersonic flight regimes.
@kennethng8346
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffeloso but when they were first designing the Concord I am sure they did not go full size. Scale models are fine for initial development to be able to rapidly iterate. But once basic design is nailed down you need to go full scale as not all material characteristics are linear. Just like initial designs can be on CAD, but you still need final testing for real because CAD still cannot predict all the effects and interactions.
@edfx
Жыл бұрын
@@Kimber123 I would argue that rhino liner on scale model is good as rhino liner on full size model.
@Kimber123
Жыл бұрын
@@edfx Idk, but there were so many other components that went into this. That model test certainly would not have assuaged any of my concerns. Of course, I'd never get in anything like that anyway.
@marleyrose6632
Жыл бұрын
*** JEFF, PLEASE READ! I’M INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON SOMETHING THAT NOBODY HAS BROUGHT UP: The controls are on the outside, and their in a glass sphere. Stockton was recorded talking about how; if it exploded underwater, “it’s like 7 STICKS OF DYNAMITE. It’s a crazy amount of energy”… The reason I bring this up - is it’s GONE from the wreckage that was brought up. The orange sphere was right on top of the orange box that said “Ictinev” (there’s 2 orange boxes on either side, and from the wreckage you see both boxes, but no control sphere). You can find that video from Alanxelundo’s part 1/4 titanic video. I’m shocked that nobody has at least brought that up or pointed it out as interesting
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
The speres are 3/4" spheres, a lot of them packed into the boxes.
@colt5189
Жыл бұрын
911: "What's your emergency?" You: "I'm at the Titanic and my pizza is a week late."
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Yeah man!
@stevenhorne5089
Жыл бұрын
Prepreg is going to be warp & weft. Basically the tow being woven 90 degrees to one another..(At least for bi-directional) You could still wind it, but you'll need 2 looms going 90 degrees to each other. I've never heard of prepreg being wound. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I've just never seen anyone that could do it. And then after that, you'd still need an autoclave.
@wytze01
Жыл бұрын
You can just use a filament winder to wind prepreg on a mandrel
@johntankson
Жыл бұрын
Jeff, I'm a few weeks into watching your content. I must say that I'm very impressed with everything I've seen. The Titan content is awesome, it's sad about what happened. But you can't be a innovator using subpar materials in that type of quest. Deep underwater exploration or high attitude flying, space flight etc should be done with the best of everything.
@jack504
Жыл бұрын
How much more expensive would a titanium cylinder section be than all the r&d they did for the CF? I mean they changed the end caps to titanium, presumably after the failed scale model test. From the video of the recovered pieces the end caps still look in reasonable condition even after the implosion.
@uploadJ
Жыл бұрын
Weight. Its the weight savings they were going after.
@Jesmed100
Жыл бұрын
Jeff, one comment on the carbon fiber winding on the second hull. There's a video of Rush giving a presentation sometime after the second hull was built, in which Rush clearly says the carbon fibers were laid up in a "zero-ninety degree orientation." This means Rush was saying there are hoop windings (zero degrees) and then there are fibers laid up at 90 degrees, meaning axially. If you look at your Electroimpact video of the second hull being wound, at the 11:35 mark the mandrel has stopped turning, and the fiber-laying machine head (sorry I don't know the technical term) starts moving axially along the mandrel, as though it is now laying down the "90 degree" axial layer that Rush seemed to describe. The machine head makes several complete runs along the axial length of the mandrel, and after each pass, the mandrel rotates slightly for the next axial pass. So I believe that video actually confirms the two-directional layup of the second hull, with some hoop layers and some axial layers.
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Yes, will have to look closer at that
@welshpete12
Жыл бұрын
I wish you had shown more of the debris field on the ocean floor !
@willlefebre2930
Жыл бұрын
Very well done! Very informative series!
@qarnos
Жыл бұрын
If all your knowledge of the Titan comes from this guy, you are probably 90% wrong.
@florida_man1809
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoy your take on this!!!
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, Florida Man!
@Gooselip
Жыл бұрын
I have been waiting for your new video on the Titan sub
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Glad you came back for more Goosebath
@aptroed
Жыл бұрын
Jeff, if you watch this video, start at 1:05, you will see an implosion of titan sub that shows red fluid exiting the front cap. I don’t know if it was photoshopped, or maybe test dive with tomatoes, but it’s impressive.
@88Cardey
Жыл бұрын
The point of failure was most likely where the carbon fibre composite and the titanium were joined together with glue. These two materials have different rates of contraction, so that joint was under constant stress, at that depth the composite had about 1% contraction and the titanium basically non. This wouldn't result in an implosion, a pin hole leak would rapidly expand and the water would almost instantly decompress to about the speed of sound. So about a ton of water would have rushed in at over 750mph at one end and broke the sub apart as it hit the other end, giving the recorded sound and the debris field, that isn't an implosion.
@wranther
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting and enjoyable updated reporting Jeff! Hope you keep developing more new and additional details. I do wonder though Jeff, would Flex Seal stop the windown breaking problems developing on the Millennium Tower? -Bob...
@martinwashington3152
Жыл бұрын
I still say the rear divided section filled very slowly on the way down and is why it seems they dived faster than usual, this lowered the MTBF on the CF tube and then when deciding to ditch the ballast, having a weaker mechanism which really should have been a magnetic type of action possibly failed after a while, all the factors added in to the equation just equated to failure sadly. -Amazing videos so far buddy :D
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
@uploadJ
Жыл бұрын
re: "I still say the rear divided section " Rear section was open to the water, it was not sealed. What gives you the impression it was sealed? It, too, would have to stand pressurization to 13,000 feet and there are NO DOMES back there. The batteries are back there and are rated for depth. The batteries are made by ictineu, do a search on that name for info.
@zapan101313
Жыл бұрын
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only use of scaled down models that I can think of is when testing aerodynamics with wind tunnels. Never for collisions or stress tests.
@padeosarran
Жыл бұрын
Exactly
@kev_299
Жыл бұрын
It would have been relatively cheap for him to do at least some testing on a full size hull. He could have bought a cheap a/c recycling vacuum pump at Harbor Freight (right up his alley), hooked it up through a fitting and let it run all night. Even a small piston pump will eventually reach near full vacuum. Lowering it in water while under vacuum he could simulate much higher pressures at lower depths and at least have some way to check roundness or distortion of the hull. He can’t rely on scaling up thicknesses and diameters in that type of application.
@BartSliggers
Жыл бұрын
@@kev_299 No, an inside vacuüm is equivalent to an outside pressure of 1 bar. Which is pretty trivial to achieve, and totally insignificant when designing something that should withstand 400 bars.
@kev_299
Жыл бұрын
@@BartSliggers For sure it needs to be many many times stronger than vacuum implosion strength - vacuum is used in combination with submerging the vessel to simulate more pressure. He couldn’t come anywhere near simulating actual pressure at 4000 m but he might have been able to see the first signs of any distortion (which likely began much earlier than he thought)that would tend to get progressively worse until it imploded. He probably didn’t want to know the results of any testing after that and chose to remain blissfully ignorant after he made up his mind to use CF.
@dougcollins9980
Жыл бұрын
@@kev_299 The problem is that a full evacuated "vacuum" is a maximum of 15psi - whereas the pressure at 3500 metres is above 5000 psi. An extra 15psi due to having pumped out all the air is not going to be of much significance.
@louisecann7118
2 ай бұрын
You are right - the first hull was hoop spun, and they did the second hull with vertical hoops in one layer and horizontal hoops in the next layer. There was no alternating strands or anything. It was just like having two layers, but one , one way, and one go on the other way , so that they are situated perpendicular to each other.
@difdaf436
Жыл бұрын
I’m a spray painter and we get guys in who spray rhino liner on mining vehicles for us. It’s a really hard wearing polyurethane coating.. it can be put on up to about 10mm thick. Great for resisting stone chips and as a protective coating for steal.. Never heard of it being used under pressure… I’m no expert on the topic but I’ve never heard of it being used for this application.
@calendarpage
Жыл бұрын
How does Rush get stuck for hours like that and not think he needs a hatch that can be opened from the inside? Makes no sense.
@toomanyaccounts
Жыл бұрын
because explosive bolts are a well known safety measure dating back to the 1950s and he considers safety to be a waste
@CollinDunker
Жыл бұрын
If someone was sitting mostly or entirely in the front end cap, what would they experience during the implosion if the simulation shown in the last video is an accurate simulation? Would it be the same or different than one in the middle?
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
It is all so fast, I doubt it would matter either way. If the glass window blows in, it happens with such speed you are decapitated befor the brain even knows it
@danielmorack
Жыл бұрын
@jeffostroff in the simulation at the very end, it looks like only half of the "tank" was crushed in. The other half was still ok. I think that's what this person was wondering. LOVE the videos Jeff!! Great question as well, I am wondering the same thing
@robertkerr4199
Жыл бұрын
The simulation isn't accurate. The breach happened aft. It's in the transcripts, lat report was, "cracking noise coming from aft." The port hole is forward, not aft. The rear of the sub cracked, and started letting water in, thats why they couldn't resurface. The rear of the sub had a secondary hull. But the fact remains; the breach happened at the back, as reported by the occupants before it imploded. This is why everyone needs to stop talking about this. All the facts have been drowned out by hearsay.
@jordanhenshaw
Жыл бұрын
I’m pretty sure the last video was a vacuum implosion, meaning that was only the weight of the atmosphere above it. 1 bar. At Titanic depth it’s more like hundreds of bar. 1 bar equals 14.7 psia.
@danielmorack
Жыл бұрын
@robertkerr4199 oh nice didnt notice Jeff chnaged his username! We are discussing about the video at the end, which nobody here has ever seen before my guy. What should we stop talking about? Also the transcripts, which you seem to be basing both points off, has not been verified or proven real
@zviper
Жыл бұрын
Has anyone seen the titanium ring that was cracked in half? @3:14 its near the top right side
@aagifford
Жыл бұрын
Great observation!
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
I am still not sure it was cracked in half
@michaireneuszjakubowski5289
Жыл бұрын
Now that you mention it, it does appear like there's a crack, near what looks like a mounting bracket with three holes.
@JustMe-ob1cq
Жыл бұрын
Love your work, looking forward to seeing more soon.
@evlo8059
Жыл бұрын
that blue cargo boat design is surprisingly pleasing even thought it is modernish
@tomcook5813
Жыл бұрын
Rhino liner also has air voids in it :o
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
On no, that's bad at deep pressures
@jimbrauer1855
Жыл бұрын
I always wonder why the groove in the titanium where it meets the carbon was not deeper.it only looked like 2 inches or less. Also if they had some interior support it might have helped keep the carbon fiber from flexing
@jd-ej6gx
Жыл бұрын
Well I agree but at those depths the pressure will be pushing everything together.
@gargar8196
Жыл бұрын
It was all wrong
@distracting_games
Жыл бұрын
The problem with a full sized model is that there aren't a lot of places with big enough pressure testing equipment. The Limiting Factor had to be tested in a former Soviet Union submersible testing facility in Russia, as it had one of the few such facilities capable of testing it's large pressure hull.
@Itapirkanmaa2
Жыл бұрын
For instance the Mirs have no hatch that could be opened from the inside. You do not need tools though to open it from the outside. Think about it and you'll realize that there would need to be a device going through the pressure hull in order to make one to work.
@kevinashley478
Жыл бұрын
10:45 I have said in multiple posts, IF i wanted to do something like Rush did, I would have built 3 fully configured submersibles. I would send the first down and up and down and up, repeatedly until it DID fail. I would assess the damage/failure and make the necessary changes to the 2nd submersible to account for those failures. Then I would do it again, keep sending it down and bringing it up, over and over, until it failed. I would make the necessary adjustments to the 3rd submersible, then repeat the cycling. Once the 3rd submersible failed, I would make the necessary changes need to overcome the failure, and THEN if I felt like taking someone down, I would only allow it to cycle 50% of the time that the 3rd submersible made. This man only cared about one thing and that was being famous. His ego told him he knew everything and he surrounded himself with kids who worshipped him as the emperor with no clothes.
@walterhorn5567
Жыл бұрын
I worked in a large metal fab shop for years and was always alarmed at the book knowledge but lack of actual knowledge the engineers had if you go off the Numbers rhino coating is probably great stuff if you have actually used it you can see that it doesn’t stick to anything delaminates. How things work under ideal conditions by the numbers on paper rarely translates out to how things work in the real world.
@Butternose
Жыл бұрын
Yep, I sprayed speaker boxes with the the stuff and I’ve stripped it off a few. It made me wonder how it adheres to CF, what prep and key was done, how much moisture was already in the carbon. Polyurea goes on crazy thick, it can bubble itself if there is moisture and does not have insignificant weight. If this was their solution to make the porous hull sea worthy again…. Well I was already without words!
@scottjohnston1028
Жыл бұрын
Hey Jeff, the comparison implosions seen on the internet to demonstrate the Titan sub implosion are a little misleading. The demonstrations all use a vacuum to create the pressure differential. In the case of the Titan, the internal space was not a vacuum. It had an internal pressure. As the ocean pressure on the outside squeezed the vessel, the pressure on the inside of the Titan should actually be increasing. In the final moment the vessel gave in, it would have been more like someone stepping on a ketchup packet. This continued inward pressure from the ocean depth would have likely been enough to blow the acrylic window housing off causing the sudden release of the internal pressure of the vessel and then allowing it to collapse fully. This of course happened very quickly. Another example of this type of implosion is holding a paper bag full of air in one hand and then hitting it with your your other hand. We know what the results are when we do that. I am not an engineer but I can visualize this happening in the way I describe and the weakness in the sub very well could have been the bolts holding the acrylic observation window on the sub. The window blowing off and the sudden internal depressurization allowed the carbon fiber cylinder to shatter secondarily. The missing window housing on the titanium endcap is a major indicator in my mind.
@jeffostroff
Жыл бұрын
Internal space had 1 atmosphere, external space has 300 atmospheres. That is all you need to make an implosion is the difference in pressures, not the vacuum. Don't even need vacuum at all.
@scottjohnston1028
Жыл бұрын
@@jeffostroff I am just trying to come up with the answer as to why the window housing was completely missing. If the sub was a vacuum, the window should have stayed intact as there would have not been any pressure within the sub during the implosion. That internal space went from 1 atmosphere to 300 atmospheres very quickly but during that implosion but some pressure from the inside had to be enough to blow that window housing clean off. There is no doubt that the 300 to 1 pressure difference was there and that this was a very rapid implosion. I am also wondering how the carbon fiber reacted during the implosion and why the two titanium end caps appeared clean of any of the carbon fiber cylinder. Could a carbon fiber cylinder squish like metal or would it disintegrate into pieces? Could it have happened in such a way that the window blew out and the end caps blew off as the carbon fiber tube was rapidly failing? Again, I am thinking of the ketchup packet when someone stomps on it and how it implodes and blows out the ends of the packet. ( I am not trying to be gruesome but just trying to visualize the failure and of course RIP/Condolences to the people involved in this tragedy )
@denniss3980
Жыл бұрын
The sub must have been heavier than in past dives, which would explain the rapid descent, but where was the extra weight, seeing how even after dropping ballast and the frame they were barely rising, this tells me the extra weight was somewhere else on the sub, it is almost like they were waterlogged. Now we learn the sub had a rubber lining called Rhino liner that covered the carbon fiber and was supposed to keep water out of the carbon fiber, if that failed the CF could take on water like a sponge. Another mystery solved, by the way, my truck bed is covered in Rhino liner but I have no plans to test it underwater
@combcomclrlsr
Жыл бұрын
Was the carbon fiber tube covered with Rhino liner before being attached to the titanium rings or was it sprayed over the ring edges and tube? Either way creates a place where the liner might be made to split as the rings and carbon fiber respond differently to increasing pressure.
@marleyrose6632
Жыл бұрын
HOW IS NOBODY BRINGING THIS UP: the controls are on the outside, and there’s in a glass sphere. Stockton was recorded talking about how, if it exploded underwater; it’s like 7 STICKS OF DYNAMITE. It’s a crazy amount of energy… the reason I bring this up - is it’s GONE from the wreckage that was brought up. The orange sphere was right on top of the orange box that said “Ictinev”. You can find that video from Alanxelundo’s part 1/4 titanic video. I’m shocked that nobody has at least brought that up or pointed it out as interesting
@gagarin777
Жыл бұрын
What is mind-boggling is the aim of the test was to reach 6000PSI/inch^2, but it failed in mid-way so they changed the pass criteria to receive positive test result. They said test passed at 4000PSI/inch^2, because it looks better on paper then - test failed.
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