In general: The worst value are games - however good they are - you don't play, be it because you don't like it, or even worse, you love, but don't have friends to play it with.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree
@jasmadams
4 жыл бұрын
I don't know about the latter. I enjoy just looking at those, even if it's a bit bittersweet.
@Straddllw
4 жыл бұрын
I absolutely adore Kingdom Death Monsters, Twilight Imperium 4E and Gloomhaven. But I never get to play them. Even though I can solo 2/3 of them, I don’t have the time.
@Straddllw
4 жыл бұрын
Here’s the tragedy of KDM. It is the only game in existence that makes me truly immersed in the world. You assemble the miniatures but it’s more like character creation as you get to pick what hairstyles, poses, weapons, Armor and face it has. You spend hours upon hours painting it, and then when you finally assemble your team, you give them a name, they wake up like babies in a brutal world, you develope this small tribe into a society. You pick their dispositions and their culture, you are their god. Then you use them to hunt, and they inevitably die but their culture and society lives on. And you realised you spent an entire week playing it and the time flew by (by entire week I count the miniature assembly). Then you pack it up to continue the game next week. But then life catches on. You don’t have time. Then when you do have time, the amount of time you need to devote to picking it up again is too high of a barrier to entry and you’d rather play a quick euro with friends. Get that quick win. But you promise yourself you want to play KDM again sometimes, get bought back to that magical immersive time. But that day never comes. Life goes on.
@flintlocke1917
3 жыл бұрын
@@Straddllw I mean, Ive successfully completed i dont know how many campaigns with various groups of people and that was with other responsibilities too.
@n3kkidninj4
4 жыл бұрын
KD:M is the best game for your friend to own.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol well that's definitely true.
@facenameple4604
4 жыл бұрын
Can confirm. My friend owns a copy, and the other friend we play with own a copy, and I own a copy.
@paultapping9510
4 жыл бұрын
We're playing on TTS and it's a really incredible game. I may end up being that friend that owns it. I'm holding off as the secondary market is *crazy*, but if they have stock of the core on black friday I might not be able to resist...
@GurrenLagann98
4 жыл бұрын
I’m that friend. No regrets
@trevorjones9178
4 жыл бұрын
i'm also that friend LOL.. though i am all in (hell i even have the pvc mat coming too)
@Hnter2200
2 жыл бұрын
I very much appreciate the realistic and frankly blatant message of, “dude. I got impulse control issues too… but just don’t. Be real with yourself” It’s something as I started this hobby, I reallllly still struggle with. But it’s good to hear I’m not alone, and that there are things that I can/should just straight up pass on.
@christianbank393
4 жыл бұрын
Glad I'm not the only one that went through the garbage discount bins phase! Great video as always.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yep, we all do....it's a phase.
@KommissarAzuraCh
4 жыл бұрын
People actually play KDM? I thought we just paint the minis and brag about it on the internet?
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol well in that case....
@n3kkidninj4
4 жыл бұрын
KD:M is a boutique level hobbyist game. Buying it solely for the minis isn't wrong. They are some of the coolest minis I've ever played with. But it suffers in my gaming group because there is no "time limit". It's easier to talk people into an hour or so, as opposed to the indefinite scale of something like KD:M or 7th Continent.
@LordCyler
3 жыл бұрын
@@n3kkidninj4 Which is also why I have never logged a play of it, while I have with other games. It just doesn't fit the same mold. Not sure I care for the metric he's using in this video. That said, its far from a good value IMO, but also not even close to the worst value games in my collection.
@processseer6693
3 жыл бұрын
@@n3kkidninj4 I think the quality of the minis is purely average. The concepts are great and full of Imagination but I can find better quality minis for half the price almost everywhere. Even for free as files for 3d printing. Certainly in tabletop games of basically every somewhat large company and in many boardgames as well.
@TheLaughingMan
2 жыл бұрын
Kingdom Death: Monster was the first board game that i backed on Kickstarter. I fell in love with the art, the lore, and the miniatures. I'm easily $6000 deep into the game over the years, and i haven't played it ONCE! lol I have all the expansions, and I keep buying the pin-ups and what not, i just love all of it and i don't know why. I'd get rid of every game in collection before i even considered getting rid of Kingdom Death. But i see your point, lol.
@mistletoemonkey
Жыл бұрын
You haven't played it? Do you paint it?
@TheLaughingMan
Жыл бұрын
@@mistletoemonkeyI've only ever opened it once to check to make sure nothing was broken...lol
@actorios
4 жыл бұрын
This was such a great video! I laughed so hard with that KDM line and the wink! 😂 Well done! 👍
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol, I had so much fun with that :)
@derekbowen5820
4 жыл бұрын
With something like KD:M, it needs to become a lifestyle game for the owner to be worth it. By that I mean that it basically becomes the collection, it gets played over every other game, etc, and I think there are people it does this for. I think any game that achieves this status for even a few years for someone is going to be worth the price tag. I'm pretty sure I will never play another board game as many times or for as many hours as I have played chess, even if I'd splurged on a super expensive decorative chess set. Also, it seems like prepping KD:M, customizing the minis, etc is its own hobby almost. A friend who has it bought tiny magnets to dig holes into the joints of arms and legs and glue them in so that he could swap out new armor, reflect injuries, etc and had a lot of fun doing this. Me, I'd find that to be work, but that's one of the reasons it'd be a bad value for me.
@LordCyler
3 жыл бұрын
Considering how much games are going for on KS these days, I really only need to play it 2x more than many of the other games I own for it to be of equivalent worth. And I'd say I'm closer to 4x - 5x. So for me it's been worth it. It is far from a lifestyle for me and I see no reason it needs to be? I have and do play many other games. How much do people think I spent on it? I was in on the second KS (not even the "deal" that the first ended up being) and I spent $200 on it. For a boutique game. How many people in the hobby are routinely spending over $100 on KS buys now?
@Creepo11
4 жыл бұрын
This is me commenting as a man of science and data, not as a KD:M player. As an idea, the metric is excellent, to some degree it is even a metric KD:M players themselves use when defending the value (though it's usually dollars/hour) but the data is not very reliable. The count for owned copies is pretty good, it's around half of the amount of 1.5 KS backers (which is the only public sales info at hand) so it's quite passable, but the logged plays are not good data. People use BBG in various ways for various purposes and I bet voluntarily logging plays is not the most popular of them. I'd reckon it is a feature that is primarily used only by the most hardcore hobbyists, who play a lot of different games. So what this data essentially does is exclude the average player and only includes a very specific type of group, skewing it heavily. Since you seem to trust the data, do YOU yourself religiously log every play of every game? And this is me as a KD:M player, supporting the man of science. If I were the type of person to log my plays, over the past couple years I would have logged approximately 90 plays, because that is approximately how many lantern years (one per session) I have played in the 4 campaigns that I have finished or that are ongoing. So how would that affect your data? It'd be an over 50%(!!!) increase in plays contributed by a single person! (And yes, my copy is one of those 9000+ on BGG.) That is a huge swing and really emphasizes just how lacking the data is. To provide actual data (though only a single data point) I'm currently at approx 15$/play (and that's INCLUDING content I have not yet explored or even received). I admit, still seems a bit expensive but those are some very long plays so if I was to convert them into $/h it could actually compete with some small games that make it to the table often with my play groups. As an aside, KD:M is a hard game to get to the table and by what I've read and seen in the community, there are A LOT of copies that just do not make it to the table and those are some really awful investments. But the copies that do make it to the table are more often than not, some of the best bang for the buck in their respective collections. So just like "Going All In", don't get KD:M unless you're sure you'll actually get it to the table often enough. :)
@zacharyhuntington-meath1728
4 жыл бұрын
Completely agree, these numbers are skewed to all hell.
@MaltysUA
4 жыл бұрын
I think the point was that even if only small subset of players log plays on bgg, statistically we can make comparisons between games. Point is not that kdm is 2k per play, it is that kdm is 2k per in comparison to mageknight 800 per play.
@trikkeworm
3 жыл бұрын
agree! The parameters are not right.Who logs their plays in Bgg? I think every owned copy could almost equal 1 play (at least, imaging that not all game are on shelf of shame.)
@kenttsui6024
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting Analysis with good viewpoints. I do have to stop going All In myself for the game play value. However for the hobby of painting minis, having the all In minis to paint and then field them in home brew heroscape battles.. is priceless :)
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yep :) The value discussion is an interesting one. I own half these...definitely don't mind owning expensive games.
@Fatcat1010
4 жыл бұрын
Go back in time. Convince your ancestors to immigrate to Canada. Inherit a crokinole board from, grandpa, mom, dad, aunts, uncle, second neighbour twice removed. Problem solved.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol I got my board from Canada :)
@jamessullivan5168
4 жыл бұрын
You've made some interesting points on all these games and I really agree with many of them. However, I will keep all my Zombicide games but do agree with your opinion on them (Invader) somewhat. As to Kickstarter, I'm really having a tough time there now. As I'm 71 years old and still love gaming, I'm hesitant to pledge much these days since I may not make it to the game's actual release and shipping. And yes, I have high hopes of staying around a bit as I have way too many toys left that need paint or playtime. At that rate I'll be 103 before I meet my maker. TA!
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
I'm keeping my Zombicide too, no worries there :) and may you live long and prosper :)
@garylangford6755
4 жыл бұрын
can we talk about how bloody expensive the Hamburg & Amsterdam Kickstarter is? I was excited until I saw the price. $100 a box for the deluxe edition? Cmon...
@thedoctor1325
4 жыл бұрын
Even the classic editions are a bit rich. Still better than the OOP prices of the originals, but it's close.
@arthurmensing3869
4 жыл бұрын
Wow! KDM shots fired!! The fun feud with Quakalope has just become real. Lol. I thought you guys were friends? The Boardgameco Bridgade is going to have to brace for retaliation. You and your calculations are getting us into a war. Lol. Definitely going to listen to the podcast now 😉🔥 #smacktothequack #boardgamecoBrigademountUp #boardgamecoOG
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol, I had so much fun with that.
@Straddllw
3 жыл бұрын
I'm just glad Splotters is on this list. It just feels like such a ripoff in value proposition. For it's price tag, I demand proper art by artists, proper graphic design for usability, no stupid jokes and quality production like inserts and deluxe bits.
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Don't get me wrong, I love splotter games :) But I wouldn't recommend them unless people are hardcore into the hobby.
@ropearoni4
2 жыл бұрын
Splotter as a company do their games out of the love of gaming, not for a profit to stay in business, it is a side investment. As for the cost, they do not print in China, so the cost is more because of printing in Europe in small amounts is costly. There is also a factor of time to develop a deeper game, but my guess is still not going to usual publisher route makes it hard to get the price lowered. A few other publishers that don't print in China also have similar pricing. And shipping out of Europe is raising daily.
@AaronAndSusie
3 жыл бұрын
I'm a chronic bargain binner because I keep finding games I love that didn't get much love. Queens Necklace, Worlds Fair 1893, Royals I got all under $20 and they are all in my top 20 of all time. I have gotten stuff that ended up being trash but I usually make my money back at least
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Nice, glad you're finding cheap games that are major wins for you.
@Rampag394
4 жыл бұрын
As always, I pretty much think you're right. The only place I disagree with you is that I think these only work *before* the game is purchased, and should therefore only be a factor of the purchase decision. When it comes to working out whether a (usually more expensive, "longer" duration) game is worth keeping, I use an additional metric of an ex-post-facto type on whether I think a game was worth the value. While this is probably absurd, the typical metric is as follows: (price/ ideal est. playtime)/ (avg. number of players). I work out my ideal est. playtime by taking my current playtime and factoring in my enjoyment. I then ask myself whether I'd be happy to pay that £/hour, per person for the experience. So, I paid £140 for KDM 1.5 (second hand). I have currently played it for 16 hours, each time with 4 people. It wouldn't then be completely fair to use my current playtime because I anticipate getting at least another 20 hours out of it. So, that's like (140/36)/4 = 0.972. In contrast, I paid £110 for Gloomhaven, I've played it for 6 hours, with 3 people each time. I had an okay experience, so I anticipate maybe getting another 15 hours out of it. So, that's (110/21)/3 = 1.74. So, that means that KDM has almost double the value of Gloomhaven, for me and my group.. Admittedly, I'm probably the only person on the planet who uses this way of working out the value of a game (and probably the only one who thinks it makes sense!). Anywho, keep up the great work!
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
100% agree with you. The primary purpose of this list (fun aside) is these are games you should be very wary before you buy....you can pick up an entire starter collection for the cost of these games.
@Cardsrock65
4 жыл бұрын
Omg, that deluxe version of crokinole. SO BEAUTIFUL! My husband's cousin has crokinole and they actually hang theirs on the wall :) I also was salivating at the zombicide collection. I've got season 2 coming, and have only ever played the very original first one, which I LOVED! I really think I need to get Black Plague I'm actually loving the MD2 Rainbow Road expansion, I think it was a really cute/different idea, like you were covering yesterday.
@BenSilber
4 жыл бұрын
there's literally zero part of the crokinole board that is "a terrible value for the money" - the work that went into it alone is literally worth the value for the money, and damn is it beautiful. But I also have no idea how you play crokinole on a lazy susan... I guess the idea of value is completely subjective, because this video was solely about the experience (?) where a large number of the games on this list are literally the *best* value for gaming. The sheer # of minis covers the amount you pay alone.
@hanseathl
4 жыл бұрын
I frankly don't care at all about the price most of the time. I am in for the fun. Disposable income is a major factor. The value of experience you elaborated on is the core of it.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Just wait until Thursday's video :)
@ShelfClutter
4 жыл бұрын
Trying to watch this but getting quacked at...😂 on a separate note... JESSE'S A MONSTER!!
@robinrising9929
4 жыл бұрын
oh are we doing that? ok hold on brb
@ShelfClutter
4 жыл бұрын
@@robinrising9929 I've been A-Quacked!!😲
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol yes :)
@Sabury
4 жыл бұрын
Sorry about the Quack.
@JustbGood2
4 жыл бұрын
Oh quack. I wasn't ready for that
@abrannan
4 жыл бұрын
Out of print games can be a great value for your dollar... if you know when and what to buy. At one point, the most money I'd ever spent on a single box, non-expandable board game was buying an OOP copy of Star Wars Ep1: The Queen's Gambit for $150. Bad value, right? Nope, that game currently consistently sells for $300-$400 on ebay. When I decided to sell it, I hadn't played it a single time, but had doubled my money.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree, I touched upon this one talking about zombicide, but this list wasn't about the value if you resell, rather the value if its sitting on your shelf.
@robbendig
4 жыл бұрын
Leonardo Da Vinci (check) Forbidden Stats (check) Tapestry (check) Cthulhu Wars (check) Multiple all-ins (check) Roads and Boats (check) Monumental (check) KDM (check) Looks like I need to buy a good Crokinole board to go with the rest of my collection that you just disparaged. (MIssing the point entirely). "Pay a premium for a game being good" - but the quality of the game is a big part of the value statement. Value is made of more than just monetary concerns. I realize, for the most part, you look at the monetary angle. Do we need another term for the total "value" - Game quality, components, art, monetary value, etc.?
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Hey, I own half of these too, you're just better than me :) but seriously, get crokinole, it's awesome :) As far as how to value a game, the point of this list is the comparative experience given and the cost thereof.
@faralathium101
4 жыл бұрын
My Crokinole board should be made and posted this month :D The best out of print game I have is battlestar galactica (got it and all its expansions before it went out of print so im lucky). And Kingdom Death Monster is my favourite game... I'll forgive your blasphemy :P Looks like I have high cost low value taste just like you haha :) Keep up the good work, I love you videos! (as per the theme of your video... Dont ask how much the postage for Crokinole cost to Australia...)
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol like I said...good games, bad value :) I love some of the stuff in this video.
@kennethfharkin
4 жыл бұрын
Crokinole is ALWAYS a good value. I have a crokinole board that I brought to my office and before Covid, when people were allowed to sit together, I was used all lunch break every day and for some time after hours by everyone from 22 - 60. I have a new custom board currently going through the stages of having finish coats applied and polished. It is probably another 2 weeks out. It will be hung in my office and my other board will hang in my home. The DECADES of use it gives and entertainment for all people makes it a phenomenal value. There are three types of people. 1. Those who love crokinole and play whenever they can 2. Those who have not played crokinole yet 3. Those who do like crokinole. Do not assosciate with these people as nobody needs that type of negativity in their lives. The best statement I have seen about crokinole was a backer on the Mayday board a year ago. "I love crokinole so much that in a house fire I would save my board before my kids. I am just kidding I do not have any kids; at least not since that fire..."
@themetcon1
4 жыл бұрын
I kick myself all the time for missing out on BSG. When I was first getting into boardgames I almost bought it a few times but knew one of the people in my gaming group would not play it so I held off. When I finally said screw it, it was out of print. I still look for it once in a while to see if I can find a decent price
@Grumdy
4 жыл бұрын
The worst value are the games you own that have never been played. It's important to get new games to the table quickly while your interest lasts.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
100%
@bobbyellis5006
4 жыл бұрын
As someone who has played Kingdom Death: Monster but doesn't own it this is what I'll say about it and I'm sure I'll get tons of hate for it. The price point for entry and expansion just does not equal out to being worth the experience unless you're just hardcore out for awesome miniatures with a system to play them in. In terms of legacy gaming, I think that Gloomhaven does a better job. In terms of audience friendliness, this obviously comes down to personal taste, but I've had two separate women tell me while touring the KD:M booth at GenCon that they would never play the game because of how the game depicts women so it's going to be even harder to find players to take part that aren't turned off by the art style. And in terms of "dungeon delving" and fighting monsters, I can get something like Descent into Darkness for much cheaper and it takes way less time to actually set up because I don't have to put the minis together. All that being said, I appreciate KD:M for existing, and for what it is, because it helps me get some amazing minis for my D&D games thanks to the second-hand market.
@Raptorialand
4 жыл бұрын
Wtf did i just read ... "depicts women" hä? Not every women is turned off by being a sexy a** elf or something. Just dont have sjw friends...
@chukniloc
4 жыл бұрын
I haven't played it but, aren't the guys half naked as well?
@bobbyellis5006
4 жыл бұрын
@@chukniloc it's more the giant impractical boobs and armor cleavage.
@bobbyellis5006
4 жыл бұрын
@@Raptorialand it's almost like you didn't read the whole "this comes down to personal taste part." I literally had a woman who has done pin-up modeling tell me she wouldn't play it because of the way the art depicts women. There's nothing wrong with that.
@Raptorialand
4 жыл бұрын
@@bobbyellis5006 Comes down to personal taste... i dont like women who are offended by this things - and they prob. don't like me lol
@yixiyixi4057
4 жыл бұрын
I think the main point about KDM in this video is not "if you are into this game, does it work", instead it is "how many people are not into this game, just buy because of thought it worth".
@mattbrock476
4 жыл бұрын
I'm an all-in for Kingdom Death Monster...both Kickstarters. I probably put about $1100 total into it (fortunate at the time to have the money) and I do agree it's horrible value, but like your round game board, It's soooo pretty (grotesque). The miniatures captivated me and I'm a huge miniature collector/painter, so the expense is a bit more justified for me in that respect. The game is incredible. The AI system feels like a living thing at times and I have not experienced another game like it. The main problem is getting the people to play and to have a consistent group that doesn't mind getting hammered and destroyed quit often. I don't know why anyone would give you hate over your opinion. I can love certain games while acknowledging their flaws.
@raistlarn
3 жыл бұрын
At least you didn't add all the expansions for KD:M I think the preorder price for all the new expansions (that haven't released yet) alone is an additional $1,500 usd. I don't even know how much money the previous expansions would cost to buy new from the manufacturer...if he ever decides to remake them.
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Yep, it's an overwhelming game :)
@russbrown194
4 жыл бұрын
Oh why did you have to show that Crokinole board? I was quite happy with my Mayday board, but now I totally want to overspend and waste money for that sucker. Crokinole may be worth it. Great game that everyone seems to enjoy.
@josephoberlander
4 жыл бұрын
Notice how he holds it lovingly and his eye twitches a bit ;) Yes, people spend $200 on chess and Go sets that look like pieces of art. It SHOULD be on the wall. The reason you get a game like that is not just for the experience but also because it is a piece of the decor and a permanent fixture in the house. Bad value for sure, but so is that lovely gaming table we all want as well...
@michaelfee3462
4 жыл бұрын
I have to defend Gloomhaven, It is a great game to play on zoom. It has Loads of game play. 6 MONTHS once or twice a week to get though the base game. Going from 2 to four players is easy. As long as one person has the box and passed out the characters to the others, it works.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Gloomhaven wasn't on this list, it was being used comparatively against KDM to show it's a better value.
@sumitsarkar597
Ай бұрын
You should include Shadows of Brimstone. Multiple iterations of the same game with different settings, different miniatures, and different tiles means you're paying for the same game over and over. Here is a game that no matter how bad the makers treat their backers on each Kickstarter, they keep coming back for more. It is either genius from Flying Frog, or fanboys so dedicated, they don't mind.
@jayd4219
4 жыл бұрын
Another high quality and historic flicking game is Carrom. Search KZitem for "Carrom finals." For some reason it is not well known in the USA, but it is huge in India, Asia and some spots in Europe. It is almost like a flicking version of a game of billiards, except you cannot leave your seat and how you place the disc between shots. It must be played on a nice quality board and not the cheap, huge-netted boards with a checkerboard in the center found online in the U.S. Like Crokinole, it's a pricey purchase and a lot of storage space for a single game.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yep, very aware of it but I always had crokinole so never got carrom
@LuisCruz-wv9qc
4 жыл бұрын
Hey, first Of all, great channel and great follow up video. I must admit, I own KD:M and I love it, but what you really said really hit the nail. I had to save for the longest time to get it , and I might not always be able to play it but still I love the experience. Like you said everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that is all right. Keep being awesome and will continue supporting your content.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks! And again, this list isn't a push against owning them....I own half this list.
@leroypaulsen4566
4 жыл бұрын
Your first example of the Ninja game, and your reasons behind not getting something just because its cheap, really spoke to me as I've been seeing Seafall on sale for like, $11 and have been tempted. You've talked me off that ledge, so thank you!
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Seafall is a great example. A bad game isn't worth your time just because it's cheap.
@JustbGood2
4 жыл бұрын
However, Seafall does offer good components for home-made PnP or personal blinging sailing games
@Eldrac
4 жыл бұрын
In my opinion miniatures very rarely add value to the experience relative to their added cost
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
100% agree. It's a premium product, worth it to many myself included...but also an expensive addition.
@erichbecker3109
4 жыл бұрын
Only thing I think this video didn't consider is the miniature games being bought for miniature painting only, etc.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Oh for sure, that's a great point.
@grimfodr837
4 жыл бұрын
Crokinole IS pretty! Have played Cthulhu Wars, I am a big Cosmic Horror / Lovecraft fan but it didn't feel that great. It wasn't bad but... it kept me from getting it for my collection. And... seeing that wall of Zombicide... I think I can live without it. (I do enjoy zombies though). I think I'll stay away from CMON... until there's another KS for Cthulhu Death May Die so I can pick up a huge mass of stuff. I could tell KDM would be coming... while I can imagine it... I've had it played at my table more than any other game. And each game has been absolutely fantastic. I will say if you go for expansions... some will be far more value and others much less. That said... KDM is -not- for everyone.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Death May Die is awesome :)
@ingl0rius
3 жыл бұрын
I have just discovered your channel , and subscribed - I've watched a couple of your videos and I've already disagreed with some of your comments! The thing is, you articulate so well, and your opinions seem so well considered, that I have to subscribe! Great video.
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
I love this. I never need people to agree. I just like the conversation.
@ingl0rius
3 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo to be fair, I agree with a lot of what you say too, it’s just refreshing to find someone who can express an opinion I don’t always agree with in a way that makes me think about my own opinion. I also love the conversation, the world would be very boring if we agreed on everything!
@aenima
4 жыл бұрын
I would actually argue KDM players are the least likely to log games, as they're busy bookkeeping for the game! In all seriousness though, that evaluation seems a bit weird to me. I don't know a single person who logs their plays, although I know of a few who use BGG regularily. Seems too random to me who actually logs games to extract usable data from that.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
It's definitely random but on large enough data sets it should balance out.
@TylerHundley
4 жыл бұрын
For what its worth I log every year of the game we play using BGStats.
@andrewgrant2328
4 жыл бұрын
It would seem logical to assume that if you took the time to log ownership of games in BGG that you would also log plays of said games. But there are so many factors to affect this assumption. For instance, I owned many games and played them before ever knowing about BGG. When I did create an account, I was able to log ownership of all those games, but had no records of plays of those games. It's usable data for interest and fascination, at best in my opinion.
@AenarionITA
4 жыл бұрын
How do you log your plays on BGG?
@TylerHundley
4 жыл бұрын
@@AenarionITA I log with BGStats which links to BGG, much easier than navigating the BGG interface lol
@isaacthimbleby8926
2 жыл бұрын
For your calculations at the end, did you factor in game length? Player count might also be interesting. But it isn't obvious to me how that should be handled; I can see arguments in both directions.
@terry3733H
Жыл бұрын
thank you for the sobering thoughts 😅 I gotta factor in shipping cost on import games...
@silvarknite7
4 жыл бұрын
I am that simp that cannot resist going all in every time when I should not >.< Someone needs to stop me!
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
lol same here :)
@silvarknite7
Жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo Several year later check in. After backing many games all in, and not playing a majority of the expansions that I've backed in Kickstarter, I've gotten allot better at not backing everything. Most games I play the base game, then never touch the add ons. So now I only buy the base game and am willing to pay an extra premium if necessary to buy the addons only for the games that Ive played allot of and absolutely love and want more of. Like Death May Die. Finally played that game. Figured out that its perfect for me and my friends, and now Im going back and picking up only the expansions that I want to play.
@andrewgrant2328
4 жыл бұрын
I got Cthulhu Wars NIS at Half Price Books for $45... with a coupon, on sale, with some comic trade ins. I was amazed.
@RareSpine
4 жыл бұрын
You don’t destroy components in Unlock games. Worth mentioning even if you used them as stand ins
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yep, that was my argument for them. That they are basically the same as exit games but not destroyed.
@TheHexyBeast
4 жыл бұрын
i quite like the unlock! games i play them then pass them on to friends and family
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Same!
@pauldestefano6950
3 жыл бұрын
I always say Crokinole when people ask the best gaming dollars spent. Thousands upon thousands of plays.
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Crokinole is gorgeous :)
@SteveAMcPherson
4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting and informative video. Oh, and enjoyable to boot. Cheers.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I had fun with it :)
@n20games52
4 жыл бұрын
That is a lot of Zombicide for sure! Great list and I enjoyed the perspective you applied to each choice.
@ArnoVdVelde
4 жыл бұрын
I have seen people getting rid of tapestry for 40. Which is only 10 less than what the real price should be. I do agree with splotter, the games are great, but they prices they ask for them are not in line with what is in the box. Food Chain Magnate should be a 50. What's in the box is kind of atrocious for 75-90
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yup...but of course I still own it. Awesome game.
@stacie_everdell
3 жыл бұрын
Definitely a fun conversation to have. I know I stumbled upon this a little late, but it's still good content. I can hardly believe ALL the Zombicide boxes. :0 ;)
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Lol yep :)
@kmloke4507
4 жыл бұрын
Will there be a top 10 best value video soon?
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
There already was :) before this one.
@ClockworkWyrm
3 жыл бұрын
"...until you can justify having 1000$ worth of games on your shelf because you can't control yourself!" Oof! Et tu Alex!
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
:)
@turtle4lyfe91
4 жыл бұрын
I've never played Cthulhu wars and not had a very fun time. I've taught people on the spot and they had a lot of fun. I've played my copy probably probably 200 times and each time it was fun.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
I'm hopeful and excited it will be the same for me :)
@cteague3
3 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo It never gets old. Never. Every game plays out differently. After many, many games, you learn that doing the unexpected is typically a sure path to victory.
@cesarsalgado8310
3 жыл бұрын
A game is only overpriced if it's not played. My favorite game is Cthulhu Wars and I got every penny out of it by playing it with my roommates. You're not paying for the game. You're paying for the memories.
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
100% agreed, I covered this in my follow-up video. But at the same time everything in life is relative. Paying paying $1,000 for the same game, may still be worth the memories, but isn't worth it compared to other things that can give you the same experience.
@cesarsalgado8310
3 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo Yes that's true. My mistake is buying the expansions at the same time I buy the base game. This is a problem if you never even end up playing the base game. I'm now waiting until I play the base game AT LEAST ONCE before buying the expansions LOL. PS- You have an excellent channel and I find many of your videos thought provoking. It's nice when someone discusses issues, and not only reviews. Keep it up buddy, you're doing good work.
@christopherkulander3236
4 жыл бұрын
I got a lot of replay out of my Cthulhu Wars game. Great game. And the munis are amazing. One group's experience...
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
I own it :) Want to play it.
@billhyman8684
4 жыл бұрын
I also get a good bit of replay out of Cthulhu Wars, but it is also one of my biggest "value" regrets. I went all in on their first campaign. I told no one in my family. One day UPS rolls up unannounced to my home with two boxes each the size of a household refrigerator. After a lengthy family gaming intervention, I still have not opened and used every expansion. While those big beautiful figures lie sleeping in their shrink wrap, I learned the harsh price of all in madness. :)
@BenBoersma
4 жыл бұрын
It is a great game. The value proposition becomes questionable because of the size of the figures and the molding costs that are associated with them. It likely would have been a much cheaper game with smaller figures. But Sandy's vision was oversized figures and big table presence.
@brianflansburg8934
4 жыл бұрын
@@BenBoersma I like Gloomhaven's solution of cardboard for enemies. The heroes are really the ones we should celebrate. And that game is still heavy but you get better variety. Hard to get and big game to the table this month though. Maybe by Frosthaven in person games will be back.
@BenBoersma
4 жыл бұрын
@@brianflansburg8934 I see what you're saying, but I don't feel cardboard characters would have worked in Cthulhu Wars. In some games they do (Legends of Andor comes to mind).
@JosephFlemming
4 жыл бұрын
one minute in and I already broke your rule HAHA. I bought several old Euros in BGG auctions for like 5$ each, forgotten ones like Leonardo da Vinci [AS I was typing this he mentioned this very game ROFL.] and Phoenicia, and Ships, etc. Will it be a pain to get rid of if I hate the games? maybe but I've learned not to assume I'll dislike the game based on popularity and plan on giving them honest trys
@JosephFlemming
4 жыл бұрын
To be fair, I've bought a LOT of small box card games, and most of them I really enjoy. they're cheap enough I don't feel I need to heavily research the game before buying. plus they take of hardly any space.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol. Some people will like rated games, I know I certainly have some my collection. But for the most part they will just sit there.
@BlakJak206
3 жыл бұрын
I would log my plays for KDM, but I'm too busy crying over my dead survivors... But in all seriousness, my collection in BGG is up-to-date, but I have never once logged a play on the site. It's not a metric that I really care about and I imagine most people don't care either.
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed, but it was a comparative measure...meaning I'm comparing against people who do log plays.
@markegli7370
4 жыл бұрын
You missed out on the ccg category. This is the biggest money sink to a single gaming experience bar none.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Put it in the "All In" category :)
@tymon234
3 жыл бұрын
Most Board game reviewers don't factor in the price point when they're reviewing a game. (Unlike other stuff, such as phones and video games). I'm really glad it's a big aspect that you consider(Because, yet, the price point matters). Thank you
@sknoppsi4413
4 жыл бұрын
I know I am already late on this video, but I have to mention that your calculation is wrong. You can not use ALL owned and calculate against plays this month. That makes newer games benefit from your calculation, because old games have more Owned tags because there was more time to sell them, on the other hand old games might have a low played count this month because most people doesn't play this games anymore. For example, I played catan more than 100 times (years ago), it cost me ~29 $. Because it is old, a lot of people own this game (~146k owners on BGG) without playing it anymore. If I now take your calculation: Catan Owned: 145935, 1122 Plays, 29 $ Price = 3771,94 $ This makes it more worse then Gloomhaven, but only because it is old. Correct calculation is: Catan: Owned 145935, 262608 Plays (lifetime), 29 $ Price = 16,12 $. Even with the correct calculation KDM has by far the worst value per $. But you shouldn't do a calculation that makes old games bad. For somebody who doesn't know Catan and it is still a good value for a few bucks. My calculation brings Gloomhaven to 20,01 and KDM to 122,49. KDM has a bad value in comparison to this other games but it has still a good value because the number is lower than the price, that means every copy was played at least once. There are plenty of game out there with a value that is higher then their price. For example a game called Tiny Epic Zombie. It was a kickstarter that wasn't expensive so it was a nobrainer and a lot of peope pledged it without playing the game when they received it here are the numbers for that game: TEZ: Owned: 10537, 6979 Plays (lifetime), 20$ Price = 30,2 $ The number is higher then the initial price was, which is a bad sign. A good value should indicate that each sold copy was played a few times (like Gloomhaven which has an excelent value).
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
No matter which way you do it to they're going to be large inaccuracies. Ultimately it's comparative data comparing a bunch of games that are mostly not that old or not that new. But yes, there are many ways to improve or adjust, including accounting for playtime.
@arkingmark
4 жыл бұрын
Bad call on Cthuhlu Wars. Overpriced? Yes! But it's really in its own niche. Blood Rage, KeKemet, etc... Don't provide a similar experience.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
They all are :) I still own this game after all.
@StephaneDassieu
3 жыл бұрын
Can’t agree more on Monumental. Good game but pricy and look at these box sizes ! Price is a thing but box size is important too. I get rid of many games because of the place they took in comparaison of the game experience they give (Monumental and Enchanters deluxe box are on top of my list. Cthulhu Wars could be, but actually I really like this game). Maybe you should make another video about that ratio 😉
@oneanotherstudios
4 жыл бұрын
While I agree with your basic principle on #1, you really can't consider the # of plays on BGG as complete data. I never log plays on BGG (which to me is quite pointless). For years I didn't even know this was something a gamer could do on BGG lol. I wonder how many others don't know?
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Of course, but on an aggregate level, picking popular titles should average out.
@Phalanx167
4 жыл бұрын
Your attempts to trigger Quackalope by hammering on Kingdom Death seem to be working, he's escalated the giveaway war. =P
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Oh wait, you know that's what I'm doing ;)
@RvLeshrac
2 жыл бұрын
Agree 100% with those Splotter games. They're like $30-40 worth of components and $40 worth of design in a $120+ box. Same deal with GMT, where the game components don't even *remotely* justify the price. Gloomhaven isn't that much more expensive and, despite the fact that I hate it, it provides a ton of content, gameplay, and components. Then on top of that, you have all the corrections they have to make to the rules, reducing the value of the design even further.
@mermuse
4 жыл бұрын
I agree with everything on the list but your number 10. No hate. My group played every week for 14 months and based on that alone I got my money’s worth. Picking a random month to look at the number of plays is going to favor new games and games that require less commitment. KDM is a epic game that requires finding 4 players willing to commit a year of their life to playing the game in order to get the full experience. For those who are willing to do that it’s great but it’s really a lifestyle game like Magic, D&D, or 40K and those types of gamers aren’t usually as obsessive about tracking their plays. It’s like saying chess is a failure as a game because chess players don’t track their plays on BGG.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
I totally hear. I think one month versus another doesn't really matter, but if it's a lifestyle game that can definitely affect things.
@mermuse
4 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo An interesting study could be done on what types of gamers record their plays and what their motivations are. I primarily track plays on trendy small box games that I tend to cull from my collection regularly. BGG has a strong bias against certain types of games which discourages those players from taking part in the community. I would never go to BGG for info on KDM because of how it’s fans are treated there.
@Mepper.
4 жыл бұрын
I don't have the Zombiecides or KDMs, but I have some Kickstarter deluxe collector's editions like Tokaido & Mountaineers that I would consider as "worst value" games because I would have been just as happy with the cheaper versions. I have a few of the Exit games, but I paid about $10 for them and the price seemed reasonable for what I got.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yep, still worth owning a lot of these but not in comparison to others.
@TheSchaef47
2 жыл бұрын
11:30 i am a sucker for all in pricing. Which is why i don't go for the big box games or the dudes on a map game with with 8 million minis. Usually "all-in" for me means sleeves and metal coins and maybe a play mat. Except Unsettled. I went crazy on Unsettled. But to me it's worth it; i love that game.
@quibily
4 жыл бұрын
Great recap! I love how you use data to back your claims. Very interesting. I consider Mage Knight better than average value for my money because I live alone. Because of that, I'll just keep the game set up over the course of a few days or even weeks and play a handful of games before I put it away--also, it takes three hours of play, which makes it more valuable to a one-hour game (and it never feels too long). It's basically become my Covid equivalent of unwinding with a video game, at the end of the day/week (because I'm on the computer for work all the time, I'd rather take a break from tech to relax) I don't record number of plays with BGG's system, though. I don't like how you have to choose dates. I don't know why, but it just feels clumsy, so I just write my number of plays in my comment of the game..
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :) And ya I actually use BG stats
@StevenH4684
3 жыл бұрын
I like the comment of how it comes down to each person and what they will play because Gloomhaven came up in this conversation and it is my most played game. Going through the campaign only one time would be less than a dollar an hour which to me is amazing. Then again if someone buys it and never plays it, that seems more of just a bad buy for that person and not value.
@bjornfloderus809
4 жыл бұрын
Sure I see what you say about Kingdom Death. But I have played it and it was an amazing experience. Other games are still in the box and I will never play it, so their value was worse. But still, each time I played KDM was very expansive.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Oh it's for sure an amazing experience, that's not even the question :)
@chucktelschow
Жыл бұрын
Where did you buy your Crokinole board? It’s awesome
@chinnmw1
4 жыл бұрын
Alex, a very interesting take on value (or lack there of). There are a number of other factors that I consider when deciding if a game is good for me or not. 1) Does this game fill a gap (perceived or otherwise) in my collection? For example, I've played a number of deck builders. I own base Dominion and one of the Ascensions. But my favorite is Thunderstone Quest. At this point, I'm willing to invest in getting more expansions for TSQ and unlikely to consider any other pure deck builders. 2) Does this game take up too much storage space (or do I need to get rid of something to get a new game)? I'm at the point where I'm shelf space limited so I need to be picky on what I get. Also, back to point 1), TSQ expansions live in the existing box space, so even though they cost $, they don't cost space. 3) What is the fun per hour of the game? Well, maybe not so much my consideration as one of my friends. I guess to put this another way, does the game outlast its fun period? Personally, I'm more than happy to spend 12-18 hours playing Mega Civilization with 8+ people, but some people don't want an experience that long. 4) How many plays do I expect to get out of a box? Or what's the cost per hour of fun? Gloomhaven and Frosthaven were no brainers for me since I intend to play every class, even if I have to play solo. I'm fully willing to drop hundreds of dollars for a game that I think/know that I'll play enough to drive the cost per hour well below the cost of a movie or show. 5) Does this game have future potential that I won't be able to get in the future? I've picked up a copy of Pandemic Legacy Season 1 & 2 and am holding on to play with my grandkids (ages 4 and 5 now) in the future. I'm willing to keep these copies around for this specific purpose, even if it means that I get to have fewer games that I can play right now. 6) Is there a "good" solo mode? Partly pandemic related, partly that I want to play games more than I have time with friends who also want to play games during normal times, but I value solo modes that are a good representation of the game. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, but since you like to read every comment, I thought you might appreciate these thoughts.
@Verudar
4 жыл бұрын
My worst investment so far is The Edge: Dawnfall 1.6 by Awaken Realms - all-in with all sorts of add-ons. No plays yet, nor will there probably be any since none of my gaming buddies are fans of 2 player games. Paid 350 EUR (around 415 USD) and can't sell it for months now.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Yup, unplayed expensive KS's will do that.
@ROOKTABULA
4 жыл бұрын
Allllllll the whinging about the hate you'll get: I hated. Tiring. Won't be back.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
You confuse whining with excitement :) Hope to see you again sometime.
@stanhilinski7280
3 жыл бұрын
Who made you crokinole board, and when did you get it?
@BoardGameCo
3 жыл бұрын
Someone in Canada, they no longer do them.
@YoshiBishi
4 жыл бұрын
Oh my.. I definitely have too many of these on shelves or on my wish list.. I just bought forbidden stars. We played a full game and it's definitely a keeper for us.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Lol it's all good...I love some of these games :)
@link_7164
4 жыл бұрын
If you really wanna push the boundaries of low value, pick up a copy of kingdom death while it’s temporary out of print.
@4683Dimo
4 жыл бұрын
If you owning Cthulhu Wars is poor impulse controll, than me owning every single expansion to Cthulhu Wars is what? Total lack of impuls kontroll or simple madness!? Oh, wait madness fits well in the theme of Cthulhu right, makes it accurate again, I think...Lol. Great video by the way, like always!
@reddjinn911
4 жыл бұрын
Normally I would say if you haven't played a game, dont talk about it. Designers put their souls into making games so trashing a title without playing it is really unethical... BUT this really is a refreshing exception. This discussion is less about how games play and more about gauging value. I think the "standees version" discussion fits nicely here. Great video.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree :) and as someone who owns and loves half the games I just listed...I hope no one feels these games are being trashed.
@reddjinn911
4 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo I hope so too. And I should have subbed sooner... great channel
@timfrench1333
4 жыл бұрын
I think you could do the same metric for all games that have 9000 plus ownership. I bet they are not getting to the table enough and will have a high price per play
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Everything is relative, I was specifically comparing these 5 against each other to bring out that KDM had the worst relative value.
@timfrench1333
4 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo I get it, I own KDM and it is more a collectable lol
@zephro666000
2 жыл бұрын
How can you determine what is a good and bad value without knowing the publisher’s cost structure? Publishers are entitled to make money on games and I’ll tell you, there is not a lot of margin in this industry and there are a ton upfront costs for things like artists, designers, development, testing, molds fees for pieces, shipping to your warehouse, shipping to distributors, royalties if your game is licensed, marketing, advertising, review copies, trade shows, just to name a few. This video is like a doctor telling you you have cancer without doing scans or blood work.
@mikeharman4257
4 жыл бұрын
You made an assumption on your out of print category that wasn't clear until the end, the assumption being that you are paying more than the RRP. This is not a given. I've bought many out of print games for cheap as people are trying to unload stock. So "out of print games" should read "price inflated games because they are out of print".
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
100% agree. Obviously if you get an out of print game for a non out of print price then that doesn't apply.
@JackgarPrime
4 жыл бұрын
I think there's more to the value of KDM than the amount of plays, which is a weird thing to say for a board game. But the sheer volume of quality miniatures is also a factor for that. I think that's a lot of the reason why people are willing to spend so much on it (including myself).
@garylangford6755
4 жыл бұрын
KDM? Volume of miniatures? Have you seen a CMON game before?,
@samanrahemi2199
2 жыл бұрын
I don't get it! what's the point of telling viewers what's worth getting and what's not while obviously you did the opposite in some cases like Zombicide? how is this gonna affect viewers the way it's supposed to?
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
The fact that something is a bad value relative to the cost doesn't mean you shouldn't get it... That's your decision to make.
@Sharkey007x
3 жыл бұрын
"sometimes you don't need everything":kzitem.info/news/bejne/yKujrpqjm6mQo3o OCD: yea... gonna stop you right there... :P
@destrio
4 жыл бұрын
I gotta say as a super fan of Forbidden Stars, I definitely forked over a ton of money to get its predecessor Starcraft and the expansion. Highly out of print and very expensive, but I would only do that again if I knew the game was great and if it were a licensed game. Licensed IPs do not generally come back in print even if you wait a long time. Non-licensed IP games might get reskinned in the future, but chances are if an IP game is redone, the mechanisms will have changed. Also, i think one more worse value topic can be 'purchasing a new edition' even though you may have an older edition of a game. I'm guilty of this...
@vlowolvtake1797
2 жыл бұрын
I'm laughing during Crokonile and Zombicide😂😂😂
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Enjoy 😊
@uaputte
4 жыл бұрын
Mega Civ limit ed, in the wodden box must be the worst for youre money, but a butiful and good game!
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Oh wow :)
@arkingmark
4 жыл бұрын
My worst value game was "No Honor Among Theives" because I bought it and never even opened it. That probably falls under cheap bad games. On the other end was my all-in Batman GCC, a game I really liked but couldn't get my family or gane group to play.
@alicemoore2036
4 жыл бұрын
Maybe a good value should be calculated as (Price of Game x hours of actual play) x your 1-10 rating.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
That's an excellent rating :) I commented along similar lines to someone else, price*hours*subjective enjoyment, which is basically the same idea.
@ajtame
10 ай бұрын
Shadows over camelot is my unicorn game, I refuse to buy it at the OOP cost.
@BoardGameCo
10 ай бұрын
It's a good one, I often wonder why they don't reprint.
@JuanPVolpin
3 жыл бұрын
I've got KDM, I ticked that box in bgg, but I never ticked my plays, I didn't know that was a metric that someone that has never played the game would use to bash it =/ My bad I guess... (BTW, YOU SHOULD PLAY IT!)
@johninnaperville
4 жыл бұрын
I agree with your assessment that Too Many Bones is delivering the play content for the dollar. I have the entire line from the beginning and it is on my table more than any other game I own. I am not a logger, and I don't know anyone who is, so I am not sure of your metric there. I am sure some of the love for a high priced game is do to the buy in cost. The feeling that if I spent $xxx on this game, you bet I will love it. But I actually think most gamers don't actually think that way, and in the end they value their time more than their angst over the sunk cost of a game. If the owners of those high priced games didn't think they were getting their value in play, there would be quite a bit of very loud complaining. There are a lot of very vocal people in the hobby.
@andraslibal
2 жыл бұрын
Scientist here 😉 I would define the relevant quantity as $ / (logged player hour x number of players) Why I would do that. I look at my own logged plays. Some games are 5+ hours long epic adventures. Like a Terraforming Mars. Cannot compare it to 10-15 minutes of Bluff or Bang the dice game that we have 3-4x in a row one night.
@atragonx7939
4 жыл бұрын
Cthulhu Wars is an amazing game. Part of the experience is the giant miniatures. The replay is massive. All 4 base factions play extremely differently. You've never played it. How can you honestly criticize it and say it isn't a good value if you've never experienced it?
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Great question, let me ask you that. Do you have any games that are a third the price that you would rank higher if you were putting together a top 20?
@atragonx7939
4 жыл бұрын
The only game I have that even remotely plays the same way is The God's War- also by Petersen Games. Maybe they exist, but I don't have any. CW gets rave reviews from everyone I expose it to.
@Feanor1769
4 жыл бұрын
Ok I'll bite, I'll even subscribe lol. KDM is not a bad value. Judged only as a game, I'm at 100+ hours of gameplay for my $300. That's a better ratio than most games I own. But it's more than a game. It comes with 40 unassembled miniatures, each taking me at least 6 hours to assemble and paint, for another 240+ hours of engagement. It's not a perfect game, I play with many house rules. But if you are miniature hobbyist, and the setting appeals to you, definitely worth the money.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
I'll take the sub :) And I hear you, this isn't a dig on KDM, half the games on this list I own :)
@GameBrigade
4 жыл бұрын
Congratulations on 10k Subs buddy.
@BoardGameCo
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks a ton!
@marcoschaub8978
3 жыл бұрын
The way you've defined "value" for this list is that it is highly subjective. You can pay a lot and still get a great value because you either play that game very often or because you derive enormous enjoyment out of playing it - or both.
@ianwales9247
3 жыл бұрын
KD:M is my favourite game. The gameplay is brutal (needlessly so) but was a great experience. I played a year long campaign and we loved it. I also went in and paid over the top prices for all the expansions (wave 1) only to later find they were available again on the website (reference to not buying out of print games). I have spent around £1200 on this game and only even opened £300 of it. I would love to play this again and again and it would take years to even go through all the content once. Favourite game but would never recommend more than buying the base game and that only if you had a regular group who would commit to years of regular play. Loads of content and replay but the time investment is probably too much for most groups. Great video thank you.
Пікірлер: 1,6 М.