Thank you all for getting this video to 200K views. I greatly appreciate this. I never expected one of my videos to be this popular. Thank you for all the likes as well . ♥️ Thank you
@derricknichols5787
Жыл бұрын
Anikan saying lose sounds corny & cheesy. They couldn't find a better word besides lose? How long has he been Darth Vader?
@insertafunnynamehere4426
11 ай бұрын
@GClone9253 when is the english test?
@GClone9253
11 ай бұрын
@@insertafunnynamehere4426 technically lightsaber is canon but lightsabre is used in the English language so I put both
@insertafunnynamehere4426
11 ай бұрын
@@GClone9253 i mean the assement with miss grey
@GClone9253
11 ай бұрын
@@insertafunnynamehere4426 who are you
@vincerusselmorales3065
Жыл бұрын
Let's be honest. The fights in the Old Republic eclipses the fights in the canon movies.
@dreadsire5086
Жыл бұрын
Yes in almost every case, however the end duel in Ep 3 is the best dual ever produced.
@vincerusselmorales3065
Жыл бұрын
@@dreadsire5086 maybe.. your right
@vinemp
Жыл бұрын
Sure, the dramatic import of that duel is...compelling. But live action has yet to approach even the decades old Tartakovsky's 2D take. (Sadder still, even the panels in the graphic novels are more thrilling than what appears in live action.)
@snakeoo7ca
Жыл бұрын
@@vinemp speak for yourself, the prequels were bangers less the Disney movies
@odostolzfu7775
Жыл бұрын
They are waaaaay over the top.. more marvel than Star Wars.
@darthshadow576
Жыл бұрын
Ah yes, someone who recognizes the legendary lightsaber duels of the Old Republic
@mathiaslarsen6174
Жыл бұрын
We Have. Returned
@starboykevin2092
Жыл бұрын
Rip too obi wan and his master anakin Han Solo yoda count dooku organa bail his daughter and most of all mace windu 😢😢
@FeedMeChaos1
9 ай бұрын
@@starboykevin2092 the old Republic was well before Yoda was born
@jonathansutton8459
Жыл бұрын
There was no way SWTOR could live up to the hype of it's own cinematic trailers. They are true STAR WARS masterpieces!!!
@odostolzfu7775
Жыл бұрын
They are waaay over the top. More marvel than Star Wars.
@adspence23
Жыл бұрын
I'm going to play my marauder anihilator right now
@EatinPaste
Жыл бұрын
Like a fair amount of MMO's then? XD
@CommanderBly5052
Жыл бұрын
@@odostolzfu7775 how exactly?
@zackhayes1268
Жыл бұрын
My personal favorite is SWROTWISFJ
@MechaPla254
Жыл бұрын
Darth Malgus and Anakin Vs Obi Definitely deserved top spot
@GClone9253
Жыл бұрын
Well they did get number 1 and 2
@randombush3031
Жыл бұрын
@@GClone9253 good choices
@riohorne6229
Жыл бұрын
Da fuck u on about
@penumbrahey1075
Жыл бұрын
As long as Rey didn't make the list I'm good.
@kosikumah7249
Жыл бұрын
Who the hell is Rey...? 😏
@kiokayak
3 ай бұрын
@@kosikumah7249 a very bad character
@raven-from-above6754
2 ай бұрын
We don't talk about I T. 🤮
@JCDagz
Жыл бұрын
Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach and Darth Malgus dual wielding a "regular" lightsaber and a double-bladed saber in their fight is so badass.
@user-rz2oh4ns4h
Жыл бұрын
I'd add here 2 more fights - Luke vs Vader from Episode 6 - yes, it was not a masterpiece from choreographic perspective, but all these years later I can still feel emotions inside that fight, burning anger and sadness of Luke and Anakin. And also I would add re-match between Obi-Wan and Maul. It is super boring from the perspective of visual part, but from Lore perspective it's a super masterpiece - cause Obi-Wan tricked Maul into attacking him exact the way he killed Qui-Gon and overskilled him within a moment. Absolute brilliant
@marcmonterrubiogimeno525
Жыл бұрын
Palpatine VS Maul and Savage to
@oweness4796
8 ай бұрын
The remake of Vader vs obiwan from new hope is epic also
@spectreninesix1335
6 ай бұрын
Could maul have won otherwise ?
@timothyadams8804
Жыл бұрын
The Ahsoka/ Maul fight is great… as well as Sidious vs Maul and Savage
@GhettoTako
9 ай бұрын
“Your strength has returned.. but the weakness.. STILL REMAINS!” Great Star Wars line. Reminiscent of the old movies.
@VengeDracul
Жыл бұрын
Old Republic alone can be their own movies. Obiwan vs Anakin is my favorite Duel by far.
@syreallewyatt5048
Жыл бұрын
The loss of Ven Zallow on Coruscant always makes my heart sink when the realization hits his face as he passes into The Force. Personally however, as to the top 5, I'd place Ashoka's duel w/Maul above Obi-Wan and Vader's fight. I do think I'd keep the order you have though. I'd simply of placed Ashoka/Maul into Obi-Wan/Vader's spot.
@Sy32JM
8 ай бұрын
Agreed, that's one of the best fights but I'd place it second. It definitely deserves a top 3 at least
@jamesfellers1673
Жыл бұрын
"You were decived,ad your Republic will fall"...Timely...
@Sailor-Dave
Жыл бұрын
May God spare us from that misery.
@kaldrogon4834
Жыл бұрын
anakin vs obi-wan is obviously the best i feel thought that the latest lightsaber duel made in the old republic game which malgus vs a human and a twilek does deserve a spot up there
@SCOTTEDM
20 күн бұрын
1:33 What I love about Vader he doesn’t do a bunch of fancy twirls and flourishes, he ignites and gets right to business and stays on it with zero extra flare.
@irishomerican6621
Жыл бұрын
Best lightsaber duel in all of Star Wars was Obi-wan vs Maul in Rebels. It harkens back to a true Samurai contest. It showed the evolution of Obi-wan through the years. It revealed why the light is better than the dark side. It was the quintessential essence of what a light saber battle should be.
@glennhouston5686
8 ай бұрын
I'm a maul fan but I will admit obi-wan did his thing in that short exchange 👍🏿🍻
@johnnydrama3389
6 ай бұрын
You wanna be different so bad
@unwucht1529
8 ай бұрын
As much as there is to criticize about the confrontation between Master Yoda and Count Dooku, I would still put this fight into this collection. The meer squirliness of Yoda is iconic and depicts a totally different picture of a lightsabre fighting style than envisioned anywhere before in the Star Wars movies. This alone makes it worth to be implemented in a colletion like this.
@panicbutton426
Жыл бұрын
Master Satele v Lord Malgus in the last of the original TOR trailers deserved honorable mention at least.
@mizu4305
Жыл бұрын
Aaaand… no sequels Perfection
@Flash-hm3ho
Жыл бұрын
My list 1 Anakin vs Obi wan ROTS 2 Maul and savage vs Palpatine 3 Obi wan vs Darth Vader (Rematch of the century in kenobi) 4: Ahsoka vs Vader 5: Ahsoka vs Maul 6: Maul vs qui gon and obi wan 7: Yoda vs palpatine Rots 8: Obi wan and Anakin vs Dooku 9: Obi wan vs grievous 10: Vader vs Luke Empire RTOJ
@CX0909
Жыл бұрын
It’s cool for everyone to like what they do. My favs will always be the live action after the involvement of Ray Park as Darth Maul. He totally upped the game by taking saber duels from back yard broom stick fighting to martial combat. With the animated scenes, speaking only for my own preference, there is such an opportunity to make amazing cinematic duels. Yet they are treated like bad Hollywood live action fight scenes by cutting them up into tiny parts. Cut scenes are the enemy of good fight scenes. Just look at Jackie Chan movies. Very very few cuts. So much is done in one take. That’s a level of visceral energy, danger, and believability as you can see the killing blow coming yet it makes sense why the hero defended against it. With animation the whole thing could be done in one long uncut scene. Think of the gun/knife fight in Atomic Blond! It was insanely intense! Another great example is the bank heist firefight in downtown LA in the movie Heat. No music. Just terrifying gunfire. It was dark and frightening and wonderful!
@shantoreywilkins651
11 ай бұрын
🎯📽
@Creasy5678
Жыл бұрын
Looking back there's no real surprise that Obi-Wan beat Anakin in a lightsabre duel. Anakin is all aggression, power and chaotic fighting style, Obi-Wan is all skill, conviction and a laser focus. Obi-Wan won that fight, as well, because, Fallen or not? He KNOWS Anakin, how he fights, what he'll do, all of it. Anakin, especially Fallen, just believes that he will win because he is stronger and this has to be done. Skill will always win over power, unless you are talking about Gods.
@snakeoo7ca
Жыл бұрын
*laughs in Darth Malgus*
@omysadat
Жыл бұрын
that looked a lot like plot armor to me. Kenobi beating him with a blade is ok but the moment he brings force tricks to play Vader should break Kenobi like a twig if everything they told about Anakin was true. Maybe his emotional status had an effect but his rage is supposed to empower him so I really don't get that.
@omysadat
Жыл бұрын
also, by your logic, Yoda should be able to beat all force users by a lot on account of the huge difference in age, practice and experience he has over everyone. Skill has a huge effect and can equate to some extent but power is king in the end, ask Sidious.
@Creasy5678
Жыл бұрын
@@omysadat If I recall, Yoda and Sidious actually fought and nearly killed each other. Plus, how many Padawan did he train? Oh, also, Sidious was trained by the only Force user who ever Mastered both Jedi AND Sith powers before he betrayed and killed him. Making him at least 300 years old, probably older. I would wager that Even Yoda had never fought somebody who wielded the Force the way Sidious did-because nobody ever had.
@omysadat
Жыл бұрын
@@Creasy5678 exactly, Sidious had strength backing him and all of Yoda's 800 years (at least, which is still older than Sidious and his master combined) of practice and skills couldn't stop him. And even though jedi do not master the dark side, in 800 years he must have faced and studied enough of the darkside to negate that advantage, he was far from powerless and had access to a considerable amount of studies and knowledge of the force, both dark and light.
@Waeffles_
Жыл бұрын
My list: 5- Maul and Savage vs Palpatine (CW) 4- Vader vs Ahsoka (Rebels) 3- Vader vs Obiwan (Kenobi) 2- Luke vs Vader (ROTJ) 1- Anakin vs Obiwan (ROTS)
@domjfp
7 ай бұрын
Nothing from swtor WOW brave man :D
@Waeffles_
7 ай бұрын
@@domjfp They have awesome fights, never got into TOR tho
@galilelollel9658
4 ай бұрын
Bruh, the old republic fights were the best ones. They were so freaking crazy because they didnt only use lightsabers in combat but a lot force abilities to wich is rare in the current movies or even the ones of the new republic.
@Locolupine4144
Жыл бұрын
I didn't realize that kicks were used that much, and to see Qui Gon and Obi Wan get kicked that much in the beginning was a nice refresher since I haven't seen fights like this in a while. Working to number 1 was really impressive and the number one you showed was one I want to revisit the series just to see that again. Nice video!
@megadk93
7 ай бұрын
It seems only in the first movie
@amit790
Жыл бұрын
Lightsaber fights in the Old Republic are far superior
@jeromestradford2838
Жыл бұрын
I definately concur with your assesment. Great picks for fights!
@Sailor-Dave
Жыл бұрын
Your choices are all great, and I know it's not canon, but the "SC 38 Reimagined" battle is EXACTLY what Star Wars: A New Hope should have had instead of the stilted fencing match we got. It would have been magnificent, and it would have made the movie more iconic that it was.
@mrbear1302
Ай бұрын
You do realize that movie was from the 70s? There were barely tv remotes back then. George even had to go back several years later and do basic things like tweak the explosion of Alderaan, because the technology didn't exist to do it how he wanted. The movie was also 30% over budget. It almost didn't get finished.
@Ironsack91
Жыл бұрын
Why is it that the older movies have 10x better lightsaber battles than the new ones lol. Next star wars content should be old republic era and top tier animated. The animated fights are epic as fuck, though obi vs anakin was super spicy too
@ScoutLeader
Жыл бұрын
It’s probably because the newer fights are not as fluid and as fast as the prequel fights. During the filming of the prequels, the actors were given lightsabers with a thin metal rod for a blade, so they could swing it quickly and smoothly. I think there was a report or interview that said they had to replace the lightsabers often because the metal rods would keep being bent out of shape. The Disney era? They use light-up baseball bats… I’m not even kidding. Looks cheesy as fuck while filming and makes the fight scenes much worse, needing to pull back before swinging, exerting more effort to swing them, thus slowing down the entire duel. I get that they were trying to add the light reflection from the lightsaber on the actors’ face, but it’s not worth it.
@Loxias1989
8 ай бұрын
Literal chills watching the SWTOR fight scenes with the music on. Young Malgus with his Master is my favorite fight but nothing can beat the epicness of the "WE HAVE RETURNED" line in the Deceived trailer.
@julieames7978
7 ай бұрын
The way obiwan focus to tip that pillar vs the calmness Vader has while absolutely chucking it away is awesome
@buffpopo6914
Жыл бұрын
its so weird seeing malgus without his iconic mask
@blackout1482
Жыл бұрын
Darth Malgus is just Agent 47 placed in the Star Wars universe after receiving a contract to kill some jedi.
@Royal_Yash13
4 ай бұрын
Anakin vs Obi-wan is on whole another level🔥🔥
@desmondbrown7732
Жыл бұрын
those are some of my favorites as well
@muratkrd7213
Жыл бұрын
All of us can know the Best lightsaber fight
@serynyd4704
Жыл бұрын
old republic sith/jedi leaders were built different
@XiasIV
Жыл бұрын
Old Republic cinematics WERE IT. They continue to age like fine wine.
@GClone9253
Жыл бұрын
They do indeed
@stevenjohnsonsonofshilo4921
Жыл бұрын
MY TOP 5 1. OBI WAN VS. ANAKIN (ROTS) 2. YODA VS. THE COUNT 3. OBI WAN VS. GREVIOUS 4. MAUL / SAVAGE OPPRESS VS. SIDIOUS 5. AHSOKA VS. MORGAN ELSBETH (MANDALORIAN)
@paulmoreno5229
Жыл бұрын
I m really not sure about Vader obi wan
@Victard
Жыл бұрын
What makes Star Wars so awesome for me is the lightsaber combat and force abilities, I could watch battles all day long Hope we get some amazing games focused on that side of Star Wars at some point
@boombalatty2161
Жыл бұрын
Kinda like Jedi: Fallen order?
@Victard
Жыл бұрын
@@boombalatty2161 yea except the lightsaber is tickling bosses in fallen order
@MiguelMedV
10 ай бұрын
@@Victard If you love Lightsaber combat and Force abilities, I strongly recommend you to play "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed" (2008). It's the game that inspired "Jedi Fallen Order" 😁👍🏼...
@scott22ist
Жыл бұрын
The best duels we’re on the CGI of the Old Republic!!!!
@GClone9253
Жыл бұрын
Totally agree 👍👍
@Jamesren007
Жыл бұрын
I also would add the asoka vs maul in the CW last season, i really enjoyed that fight
@davidc6510
7 ай бұрын
Great choices - thanks for sharing.
@megabrics6528
4 ай бұрын
Yoda’s fight against Palpatine is the best for me 🏅
@aldanespence9852
4 ай бұрын
I like your tastes and definitely agree with your top pick
@rivalworkshopandguitars5851
Жыл бұрын
I would have added the fight between sidious, maul and savage oppress on here as well. All in all great video!
@seven8067
Жыл бұрын
The Old Republic was so good I swear
@felipeserrafelix6295
Жыл бұрын
"The battle of heroes" 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@joeblack007
Жыл бұрын
I think seeing an old Yoda (vs Doku) really fight for the first time was really memorable.
@McMintyMP
8 ай бұрын
There is nothing worse than the disney fighting scenes
@bfcake5155
4 күн бұрын
Yoda and Palpatine was epic.
@iloveemeralds4622
Жыл бұрын
Don’t forget the force unleashed trailer
@mopdycke94
Жыл бұрын
Yea the blade flourish from Vader v Kenobi in RotS is goofy but that fight has some of the best fight choreography I've ever seen in media.
@guts-141
Жыл бұрын
I think both Vader and Obi Wan was doing tons of feint attacks in that moment before putting in the decisive strike It used to be ridiculous until someone mentioned that to me
@richardmoreno5445
Жыл бұрын
These are some really good fights. We needed to include the final fight between Vader and Luke.
@culkingsed
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for not including any sequel trilogy trash in this.
@perryellis1423
Жыл бұрын
Great 👍🏾 video
@tom-dn8md
6 ай бұрын
Prequels rule for lightsaber fights!
@joshfulmer3689
4 ай бұрын
I hope one day we get to see Luke Skywalker truly go ham on his light saber skills.
@jackwhite9282
4 ай бұрын
A live action version of Malgus sacking the Jedi temple would be amazing !
@humbatgasimov6452
Жыл бұрын
Wonderful video.
@firstnamelastname9219
Жыл бұрын
objectively the correct order. nice
@nicholasdarrylh.9062
Жыл бұрын
There should be a lightsaber technique involving allies hitting each others' sabers to bounce them
@connorredshaw7994
Жыл бұрын
The Vader Vs Kenobi show us really the only good lightsaber duel Disney has done along with the flashback duel between anakin and obiwan
@simonfenixlynge
Жыл бұрын
Well, personally, any clip from the old republic is better than all the movies.
@bocaj4490
Жыл бұрын
The top 5 lighsabre duels are literally just the 5 SWTOR cinematics
@den-it3uj
Жыл бұрын
6 you mean, there is a new one with Malgus, it's called "Disorder", enjoy: kzitem.info/news/bejne/sp2Ys3WaraJolHo
@Imakeplaylists-in1pw
Жыл бұрын
Whoever choreographed the Old Republic fights should have been hired for the seuqels. Haven't had amazing lightsaber fights since the Prequels.
@Veseliy_Magistr
Жыл бұрын
My top 5: 5: Qway-Gon & Obi-wan VS Darth Maul (Epizode 1) 4: Sateel Shan VS Darth Malgus (SWTOR cinematic on Alderaan) 3: Greewoos VS Jedi's (Tartakovskiy's Clone wars) 2: Sateel Shan & her Master VS Malgus & his Master (swtor cinematic) 1: Anaken VS Obi-wan (Epizode 3)
@priterna6130
7 ай бұрын
After seing the Ahsoka series, it feels like Night and day
@csoares289
Жыл бұрын
3 of 5 has the obi wan involved
@lorenzocompton737
8 ай бұрын
All great choices, do more with the High Republic!!!
@joshavens
Жыл бұрын
Obi Wan vs Anakin's Episode 3 Last duel is always the best
@Tuhqa
6 ай бұрын
Good list
@JohnWhite-ms5wr
8 ай бұрын
Good opinions. I was especially happy to not see any sequel-garbage on this list.
@Ecthelion1967
11 ай бұрын
For me Yoda vs Darth Tyranos/Count Dooku is always top 5.
@sneakyblu3
Жыл бұрын
Imo it’s crazy how Anakin vs. Obi-wan (mustafar) still outshines the animated fights where there is so much more potential with choreography. The amount of effort to create such a near perfect lightsaber fight must have been insane, and will probably forever be the best of all time. Although I disagree that Obi-wan vs. Vader deserves a spot in top 5, it should probably be replaced with Windu vs. Palpatine.
@Cola96K
Жыл бұрын
During the Darach Vs Malgus & Vindican, I feel the three of them use different lightsaber forms one from another. Darach's use of the force and various movements suggest Niman, but he's very physical and acrobatic in offensive as much as defensive, so I'll go with Ataru. Malgus, to me, is obviously either a Form V or VII duelist, but his moves rely more on powerful blows so I'd go with V. (Still can't make the difference between V and VII) Vindican uses a lot of protective blade motion that suggests form III and his strikes seem pretty deliberate and straightforward (in comparison), so that could suggest form I as well.
@darryladams6780
Жыл бұрын
Malgus was in fact a user of form 5. Well done.
@AG-fv4yb
Жыл бұрын
@@darryladams6780 why was it that Malgus couldn't just wipe the floor with him when it was a 1v2? His partner got stabbed then the Jedi was reeking of fear at the sight of Malgus, like all of a sudden he was completely outmatched. I don't know too much of the star wars lore but it just seemed like the Jedi went from being able to handle himself pretty well to straight panic mode
@soul7074
Жыл бұрын
@@AG-fv4ybJedi got tired. Pretty hard to fight two people at once. And i guess malgus wasn't really that serious then?
@AG-fv4yb
Жыл бұрын
@@soul7074 that makes sense but... these are Jedis we are talking about, plus the adrenaline should allow them to have a pretty good stamina. Malgus was about to kill the padawan pretty early in the fight so he was handling his business. I thought it was just weird that the tide completely turned, was he known for dual wielding? Every trailer and thing that I've seen of Malgus he only uses one lightsaber so I just want to know lol
@albertcabrera7461
Жыл бұрын
@@AG-fv4yb look closely... the jedi master got lightsaber stabbed on left shoulder part thats why his defense weakened..
@josuebaires9304
Жыл бұрын
You chose good ones! Can you make a video that includes Ashoka vrs Vader and Kenobi vrs Maul and Maul's brother?
@jarqzy9445
Жыл бұрын
Darth Malgus has some amazin fights ong
@Treeborn7
11 күн бұрын
I agree with the best one. I wish they stuck with the same saber choreographer(s) for episode 7-9
@user-yp8ln7em9l
Жыл бұрын
It makes sense that Episode 3 is number one.
@Phantommoon-ex2cw
Жыл бұрын
I would be collecting as many lightsabers as I could during this battle between the Jedi and I counted about alittle over 20 sith
@hammer911tube
11 ай бұрын
Explain me, please, what time line is this with the attack on the jedi temple and the Empire destroyers in the air?
@KaiserAleksei
6 ай бұрын
Thank you very much It's cool
@jasonsmith3537
Жыл бұрын
SWTOR intro and cinematic scenes were the best part of that game....
@GClone9253
Жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed playing the game. I loved the one world adventure and being able to do what I wanted in the star wars universe
@gizmo6746
Жыл бұрын
Vader vs Luke might not be the best but the music made it one if a kind
@jeffyladner5970
2 ай бұрын
What about dooku vs. Yoda fight? That was epic! One of the best duels I ever seen
@dragonanimekid8662
3 ай бұрын
I like how the number 1 rule of Jedi is not to kill But they murder the sith with no hesitation
@ckennedy1973
Жыл бұрын
I know this is just opinion, but the lightsaber duel between Sidious and Maul / Savage Opress from CW was one of the best
@tanakinskywalker7089
Жыл бұрын
Well done
@Kalhenwrath1
Жыл бұрын
TOR had some great cutscenes.
@dereklandry6199
5 ай бұрын
god if olny we got to see a lightsaber duel like the one for the old republic in any live action im telling you it would literallt break the internet and starwars fans alike will rejoice
@tycoley2435
Жыл бұрын
This is good list
@NeidalRuekk
7 ай бұрын
Mace Windu vs Dooku on the big screen would have been epic, and most importantly, we wouldn't know who would win! We would know they're both for the chop, but WHEN...
@KindaBad30
Жыл бұрын
It’s good to see anakan vs obiwan in #1 it was always be the best
@RealHero_of_Time
Жыл бұрын
Tbh prequel battles are great
@Roin0525
Жыл бұрын
SWTOR - When your cinematics are leagues better than your actual game.
@mgtowmonkapprenticegang8426
Жыл бұрын
Malgus had the best fights from the games. But my list would be from the movies or series: 1). Palpatine vs maul/savage (TCW) 2). Ahsoka vs maul (TCW) 3) Maul vs vizla (TCW) 4). Obi wan & qui gon vs maul (TPM) 5). Obi wan vs anakin (ROTS)
@HolyZombieX
Жыл бұрын
You must really like maul to have 80% to be about him 😅, not a bad thing though
@mgtowmonkapprenticegang8426
Жыл бұрын
@@HolyZombieX I think his lightsaber fights are the best. Count dooku fights in TCW are next for the spot. Movies/animation aside, the malgus fights and game fights are my favourite.
@jordanglasper1064
Жыл бұрын
A good list. My number 1 is TPM. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Maul!!!
@humbatgasimov6452
Жыл бұрын
Ideal.
@ethangarcia854
Жыл бұрын
Can someone explain to me what this old republic thing is. Where did these animated scenes come from?
@asnaketransfor1511
Жыл бұрын
yeah, it's true that mustafar scene is a great fight, but i would put it in second position or third
@PatoChu
Жыл бұрын
I recommend you to see it twice, its literal pure epicness for 8 minutes straight. In addition to that, John Williams did the best music humanity has ever heard,
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